Guild Wars 2

Im not saying dont give constructive feedback. Im just saying you guys are letting it go way too easily.

Ive been giving feedback for 2 years. I dont have much more to give. Ive been repeating myself as much as a i can and nothing major has changed. I dont really feel like its worth my time anymore.

dlonie.6547:

Speaking as a software engineer, this would be anything but simple. Designing such a tool in a friendly enough way that it can be given to users would take a lot of developer resources up for a long, long time.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see one, but there’s just no way that they’d have the resources to develop something this complex if they’re too shorthanded to add new dungeons.

This would also be a lot of manpower. Infrastructure and employees for accepting submissions, reviewing them, pushing them out, ranking them, etc. Developing encounters will take a lot of their effort, too, unless we just wanted some stale, boring generic cookie cutter encounters repeated through out all of the user-generated content.

Unfortunately, in this case it’d be because they don’t have the resources to allow us to help :-/

is it really that hard? im sure somewhere out there is database with all the objects etc?
anet itself created that dungeons in some way, why cant WE use that way? they gotta have a tool …
also, fissure of woe and underworld have to come back, 101% of the community would pay another 30bucks for it.

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

Fringe cases does not make it the norm.

Frankly if dungeons were really a priority in the minds of the general populace they would put more time into it.

The point is most players don’t care so ANET doesn’t put resources towards it. It’s as simple as that. You can either accept that fact or not. The fact that ANET will not do what you want won’t change. You are part of a vocal and toxic minority whose complaints will be ignored. Either learn to like the game for its other great aspects or quit the game.

DeathPanel.8362:

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

Fringe cases does not make it the norm.

Your case doesn’t make anything the norm either.

With additional new topics from devs makes me 110% sure we are facing with a PR stunt again to handle the outrage from recent disasters. Rest in pepperonies my brothers and sisters.

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

Fringe cases does not make it the norm.

Your case doesn’t make anything the norm either.

It does if ANET’s views on dungeons is similar to my views and is the status quo. You are the ones that are whining about the status quo not me.

DeathPanel.8362:

The point is most players don’t care so ANET doesn’t put resources towards it. It’s as simple as that. You can either accept that fact or not. The fact that ANET will not do what you want won’t change. You are part of a vocal and toxic minority whose complaints will be ignored. Either learn to like the game for its other great aspects or quit the game.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I believe I’ve seen that somewhere before. hmmm.

DeathPanel.8362:

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

Fringe cases does not make it the norm.

Your case doesn’t make anything the norm either.

It does if ANET’s views on dungeons is similar to my views and is the status quo. You are the ones that are whining about the status quo not me.

IF :)

@DeathPanel, you can only speak for yourself. Now that you’ve done that, feel free to gtfo of the dungeon forums if you have no interest in it.

As for the PR recently, I agree with Spoj. Nothing more than a stunt to quell the flames. Even so, I’m appreciative of those who are putting in the effort to list suggestions to dungeon problems and QoL.

DeathPanel.8362:

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

Fringe cases does not make it the norm.

Frankly if dungeons were really a priority in the minds of the general populace they would put more time into it.

The point is most players don’t care so ANET doesn’t put resources towards it. It’s as simple as that. You can either accept that fact or not. The fact that ANET will not do what you want won’t change. You are part of a vocal and toxic minority whose complaints will be ignored. Either learn to like the game for its other great aspects or quit the game.

You are part of a vocal and toxic minority whose complaints will be ignored.

vocal and toxic

toxic

Please elaborate on this before making such a claim.

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

The point is most players don’t care so ANET doesn’t put resources towards it. It’s as simple as that. You can either accept that fact or not. The fact that ANET will not do what you want won’t change. You are part of a vocal and toxic minority whose complaints will be ignored. Either learn to like the game for its other great aspects or quit the game.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I believe I’ve seen that somewhere before. hmmm.

I backed up my views and it is backed up by statements earlier regarding ANET’s actions and history regarding dungeons.

I suppose that would be a double irony. You trying to use a quote of mine that you don’t even know how to apply properly against me… and failing.

Tom Yzf.5872:

@DeathPanel, you can only speak for yourself. Now that you’ve done that, feel free to gtfo of the dungeon forums if you have no interest in it.

As for the PR recently, I agree with Spoj. Nothing more than a stunt to quell the flames. Even so, I’m appreciative of those who are putting in the effort to list suggestions to dungeon problems and QoL.

I have plenty of interest in dungeons. I see them as a means to an end. I just don’t feel like I need to play them for the sake of playing them because it’s a tedious waste of time if not for the rewards.

You’re free to rage and vent all you want but that won’t change reality nor will it change my criticism of your unconstructive complaining. I suppose the next thing you people will do is threaten to quit or something as per standard operating procedures.

Can all future correspondence concerning the he said/she said with DeathPanel move to PMs? It’s not relevant at all to the thread.

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

The point is most players don’t care so ANET doesn’t put resources towards it. It’s as simple as that. You can either accept that fact or not. The fact that ANET will not do what you want won’t change. You are part of a vocal and toxic minority whose complaints will be ignored. Either learn to like the game for its other great aspects or quit the game.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I believe I’ve seen that somewhere before. hmmm.

DeathPanel.8362:

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

RemiRome.8495:

The evidence is that he and I and several others run dungeons for other reasons than you mentioned.

Stop being silly.

Fringe cases does not make it the norm.

Your case doesn’t make anything the norm either.

It does if ANET’s views on dungeons is similar to my views and is the status quo. You are the ones that are whining about the status quo not me.

IF

Can you both stop please or exchange private msg instead

I never really read this forum before but I kind of followed dungeon tourneys and gwscr and at one point was even thinking of getting more involved in these type of guilds…

Since there was a red post asking for feedback I’ve been reading it since yesterday and trying to get involved. This is pretty eye opening to see how childish so many people in the speedclear community are. In the past I defended the speedclear community from people who mocked them but I understand now for sure.

Kind of glad I decided to get away from this part of the community.

Adults bickering like this on a forum should be ashamed.

Honestly I kind of hope nothing gets done for dungeons at this point. The people in here certaintly don’t deserve the devs’ time and I like other parts of the game too.

Deathpanel, while I didn’t have the time to get back to your first dismissal of my response, I do now. While I understand that you, as a WvW player primarily (from your forum posting history), may not care as much as we on this subforum do, dungeons are the main source of income for a large variety of the player base. They are a very important part of the economic “middle class” in GW2, and are very important based on that alone. They are also a very good skill determiner in PvE. There is no zerg to save you, and you need to do more than spam “1” the whole way.

I’m going to assume you’re intelligent and are not going to bring up the whole “stack in the corner” argument.

Now, according to your argument that “they are not supposed to be run for the sake of running”, I could see how you would think this. However, if the developers agreed with this assessment, Hobby Dungeon Explorer would not be implemented in achievements, and people would not pay me hundreds, if not thousands, of gold to buy Arah p4 off of me or my friends for their Dungeon Master title.

I, and other people in this forum, are not “fringe cases”. We have an 866 reply thread for teaching dungeons. On a regular basis, I take people through all 4 paths of Arah, even if they’ve done it before, just to learn how to do it better. My weekend Arah tour is always full, and more and more people want to join it every week. If you put up an LFG for any dungeon, it is filled within seconds (or sub 3 minutes if you’re off-peak or have stringent requirements).

Suffice to say, dungeons are a priority in a large percentage of the players’ minds. This does not mean, however, that ANet will support them. You also have to look at the artistic direction that the team is going in, and that is Living Story. They WANT to push that out there, as they think it will bring new people into the game at a much quicker pace than a new dungeon. It is an artistic decision, not something that is motivated by money. If they were motivated by money alone, the whole structure of the game itself would be different, and there’d be capes in the gem store (I’d pay a lot of money for a cape).

Anet went the direction that living story was more important than anything else. It’s not the status quo, it’s just their choice as a business.

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Deathpanel, while I didn’t have the time to get back to your first dismissal of my response, I do now. While I understand that you, as a WvW player primarily (from your forum posting history), may not care as much as we on this subforum do, dungeons are the main source of income for a large variety of the player base. They are a very important part of the economic “middle class” in GW2, and are very important based on that alone. They are also a very good skill determiner in PvE. There is no zerg to save you, and you need to do more than spam “1” the whole way.

I’m going to assume you’re intelligent and are not going to bring up the whole “stack in the corner” argument.

Now, according to your argument that “they are not supposed to be run for the sake of running”, I could see how you would think this. However, if the developers agreed with this assessment, Hobby Dungeon Explorer would not be implemented in achievements, and people would not pay me hundreds, if not thousands, of gold to buy Arah p4 off of me or my friends for their Dungeon Master title.

I, and other people in this forum, are not “fringe cases”. We have an 866 reply thread for teaching dungeons. On a regular basis, I take people through all 4 paths of Arah, even if they’ve done it before, just to learn how to do it better. My weekend Arah tour is always full, and more and more people want to join it every week. If you put up an LFG for any dungeon, it is filled within seconds (or sub 3 minutes if you’re off-peak or have stringent requirements).

Suffice to say, dungeons are a priority in a large percentage of the players’ minds. This does not mean, however, that ANet will support them. You also have to look at the artistic direction that the team is going in, and that is Living Story. They WANT to push that out there, as they think it will bring new people into the game at a much quicker pace than a new dungeon. It is an artistic decision, not something that is motivated by money. If they were motivated by money alone, the whole structure of the game itself would be different, and there’d be capes in the gem store (I’d pay a lot of money for a cape).

Anet went the direction that living story was more important than anything else. It’s not the status quo, it’s just their choice as a business.

…don’t bring up capes. I’d pay a lot of money for one

Kurr.4179:

Honestly I kind of hope nothing gets done for dungeons at this point. The people in here certaintly don’t deserve the devs’ time and I like other parts of the game too.

The devs have a decent idea of what their resources are and how important certain aspects of the game are to warrant devoting resources to them. By their history of resource allocation such as the disbanding of their dungeon team I doubt their conclusion was that Dungeons needed more major changes or new features.

Personally I believe there are far more important aspects of the game that needs new content such as WvW and living story in that order.

The dev’s actions has nothing to do with whether or not they find bickering in forums annoying and everything to do with practicality.

Obviously they found it impractical to devote more resources to come up with more major features for dungeons and decided that resources were better spent elsewhere given the upcoming patch notes and the Q&A from the dev streams.

The people complaining at this point has three options really. Keep complaining and be ignored, find some other aspect of the game to like and devote time to that, or quit.

DeathPanel.8362:

Kurr.4179:

Honestly I kind of hope nothing gets done for dungeons at this point. The people in here certaintly don’t deserve the devs’ time and I like other parts of the game too.

The devs have a decent idea of what their resources are and how important certain aspects of the game are to warrant devoting resources to them. By their history of resource allocation such as the disbanding of their dungeon team I doubt their conclusion was that Dungeons needed more major changes or new features.

Personally I believe there are far more important aspects of the game that needs new content such as WvW and living story in that order.

The dev’s actions has nothing to do with whether or not they find bickering in forums annoying and everything to do with practicality.

Obviously they found it impractical to devote more resources to come up with more major features for dungeons and decided that resources were better spent elsewhere given the upcoming patch notes and the Q&A from the dev streams.

The people complaining at this point has three options really. Keep complaining and be ignored, find some other aspect of the game to like and devote time to that, or quit.

Deathpanel, we have a hard enough time trying to corral the players we do have. You’ve made your point. You “want dungeons to be abandoned” and want what we have to “bleed to other parts of the game”. I’m sorry, but this is not the subforum for you.

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Deathpanel, while I didn’t have the time to get back to your first dismissal of my response, I do now. While I understand that you, as a WvW player primarily (from your forum posting history), may not care as much as we on this subforum do, dungeons are the main source of income for a large variety of the player base. They are a very important part of the economic “middle class” in GW2, and are very important based on that alone. They are also a very good skill determiner in PvE. There is no zerg to save you, and you need to do more than spam “1” the whole way.

I’m going to assume you’re intelligent and are not going to bring up the whole “stack in the corner” argument.

Although I prefer WvW I’ve spent enough time in dungeons to get the tokens to gear 18 of my characters, soon to be 20 since a couple are still not 80. (Some of them have multiple different stat sets) I will assume that is probably more time in dungeons than most of the people here complaining.

Dungeons (and fotm) are actually my main form of income as well.

My point is as I’ve stated before. When you’ve run dungeons as many thousands of times as I have which you probably have considering your talk of selling arah runs, it becomes a tedious bore.

The novelty has worn off over a year ago. I’m all open to reforming the dungeon runs but the vast majority of the recommendations by players in these forums is either to make it harder or more tedious which means more annoyance for old timers like myself who just want to get it over with and move on to something I actually like.

Now I’m not a big fan of the living world thing myself but at the very least in my opinion it’s better than putting more resources into dungeons since the living world content can be added as additional fractal dungeon levels later and that indirectly expands the dungeon system. (it has already been done with mai trin, molten duo, etc)

Kurr.4179:

Since there was a red post asking for feedback I’ve been reading it since yesterday and trying to get involved. This is pretty eye opening to see how childish so many people in the speedclear community are. In the past I defended the speedclear community from people who mocked them but I understand now for sure.

Kind of glad I decided to get away from this part of the community.

Adults bickering like this on a forum should be ashamed.

Honestly I kind of hope nothing gets done for dungeons at this point. The people in here certaintly don’t deserve the devs’ time and I like other parts of the game too.

SPOILER: This happens EVERYWHERE

@Kurr:
I guess you are free to leave, I just didnt expect you’d give up so easily. Though you must understand that these players are ones who were passionate and contributed much time (in making guides/videos, teaching newer players etc). They have stuck with the game for the longest time and most are not suprisingly jaded since devs barely ever visit the sub and countless suggestions/bug reports have been repeatedly ignored.

What I feel is needed first, is a gesture of goodwill from Anet that they will really put an effort to making small things happen (eg, reward balancing & really fixing bugs/exploits) in coming patches but most importantly sincere communication with the players.

DeathPanel.8362:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Deathpanel, while I didn’t have the time to get back to your first dismissal of my response, I do now. While I understand that you, as a WvW player primarily (from your forum posting history), may not care as much as we on this subforum do, dungeons are the main source of income for a large variety of the player base. They are a very important part of the economic “middle class” in GW2, and are very important based on that alone. They are also a very good skill determiner in PvE. There is no zerg to save you, and you need to do more than spam “1” the whole way.

I’m going to assume you’re intelligent and are not going to bring up the whole “stack in the corner” argument.

Although I prefer WvW I’ve spent enough time in dungeons to get the tokens to gear 18 of my characters, soon to be 20 since a couple are still not 80. (Some of them have multiple different stat sets) I will assume that is probably more time in dungeons than most of the people here complaining.

Dungeons (and fotm) are actually my main form of income as well.

My point is as I’ve stated before. When you’ve run dungeons as many thousands of times as I have which you probably have considering your talk of selling arah runs, it becomes a tedious bore.

The novelty has worn off over a year ago. I’m all open to reforming the dungeon runs but the vast majority of the recommendations by players in these forums is either to make it harder or more tedious which means more annoyance for old timers like myself who just want to get it over with and move on to something I actually like.

Now I’m not a big fan of the living world thing myself but at the very least in my opinion it’s better than putting more resources into dungeons since the living world content can be added as additional fractal dungeon levels later and that indirectly expands the dungeon system. (it has already been done with mai trin, molten duo, etc)

Deathpanel, while I understand that you are tired of Dungeons, and you have every right to be, that does not mean that they should be thrown away. As we both agree, the are very important for many factors. It is, at the end of the day, your opinion that it’s better to put resources in other places. There are people in here that have over 600 for their hobby dungeon explorer. We have become bored, which is why we are doing other thing in dungeons, i.e. exploding Lupi, mountain-goating, etc.

If you listen to that video carefully, they think Living Story achievements is a replacement to Dungeons. Rofl. I feel bad for you dungeoneers.

I gave up hope on dungeons awhile back. That aspect of the game is dead. It doesn’t matter what Anet says about it.

There have been countless threads since release, on how to improve them, and then some Anet employee comes in and acts like they need more info and an organization of threads. Seriously? You’re telling us that you didn’t collect any data over the last 2 years on how to improve them?

At least those devs in the video were honest. They even looked quite disappointed giving the news that dungeons are on the backburner. Sad days indeed.

nexxe.7081:

If you listen to that video carefully, they think Living Story achievements is a replacement to Dungeons. Rofl. I feel bad for you dungeoneers.

What part?
I liked the part where they mention the Achievements from Living Story and Aetherpath and imply we could see more of that in future dungeon content.

It’s not like I don’t think the living story isn’t flexible enough to handle challenging 5 man content in theory, it’s just a really questionable vehicle.

Like, there’s no doubt the system is agile.
It allows for them to try new things in small manageable chunks, so design-wise the fights can progress quickly and be a constant source of giving us something new.

Super Promising, yeah?

But, just think about what trying to grab some friends and do The Summit’s Shadow of the Dragon fight entails.

• Making some wonky general party in the party finder system.
• A literal procession where you twiddle your thumbs through dialogue.
• A checkpoint system that is so forgiving to failure it nearly undermines the idea of ‘trying’ at all.

Nevermind the larger questions of feeling one-time-only because the Living Story is divorced from progression. It lacks a connection to the gold reward system that serves to give a sense of progress to long-term aesthetic goals. It’s not a system that has a means to address the elephant in the room question of difficulty vs. accessibility (ala’ normal and hardmode dungeons in WoW) which really calls into question the idea it can serve as a means of skill progress or knowledge progress.

It’s like moving a coffin with a golf cart.
I’m sure you could probably get enough duck tape to sort of swing it. But why would you when something like a hearse exists?

Vox Hollow.2736:

It’s not like I don’t think the living story isn’t flexible enough to handle challenging 5 man content in theory, it’s just a really questionable vehicle.

Like, there’s no doubt the system is agile.
It allows for them to try new things in small manageable chunks, so design-wise the fights can progress quickly and be a constant source of giving us something new.

Super Promising, yeah?

But, just think about what trying to grab some friends and do The Summit’s Shadow of the Dragon fight entails.

• Making some wonky general party in the party finder system.
• A literal procession where you twiddle your thumbs through dialogue.
• A checkpoint system that is so forgiving to failure it nearly undermines the idea of ‘trying’ at all.

Nevermind the larger questions of feeling one-time-only because the Living Story is divorced from progression. It lacks a connection to the gold reward system that serves to give a sense of progress to long-term aesthetic goals. It’s not a system that has a means to address the elephant in the room question of difficulty vs. accessibility (ala’ normal and hardmode dungeons in WoW) which really calls into question the idea it can serve as a means of skill progress or knowledge progress.

It’s like moving a coffin with a golf cart.
I’m sure you could probably get enough duck tape to sort of swing it. But why would you when something like a hearse exists?

Seems like you make all assumptions and ignore some other areas. Something about you giving it credit, then lampooning it doesn’t sit with me.

A better example of designing a dungeon within a Living Story instance would be the episode Entanglement, when you fight Aerin.

Just as you type, it’s surely flexible enough to have checkpoints that won’t allow you to hurl your corpse at a boss until they die of exhaustion (from beating you repeatedly).

And if the content is being designed for five players, perhaps the Achievements would award gold and valuables. Some Activities have repeatable Achievements that reward Loot Bag.

Something I misunderstood?

I think you missed the first and the last part, maybe?
I didn’t mean to paint those sorts of changes as impossible, just numerous to the point of wondering why would it would be a favorable alternative to taking a chainsaw to dungeons.

/edit clarification: And I mean that in the sense of pointing out the work involved is probably at the ‘too hard’ level and being skeptical the living world would ever get to the point of being a dungeon alternative at all despite the possibility it could. I’m not actually holding out any hope for these sorts of changes.

nexxe.7081:

If you listen to that video carefully, they think Living Story achievements is a replacement to Dungeons. Rofl. I feel bad for you dungeoneers.

I gave up hope on dungeons awhile back. That aspect of the game is dead. It doesn’t matter what Anet says about it.

There have been countless threads since release, on how to improve them, and then some Anet employee comes in and acts like they need more info and an organization of threads. Seriously? You’re telling us that you didn’t collect any data over the last 2 years on how to improve them?

At least those devs in the video were honest. They even looked quite disappointed giving the news that dungeons are on the backburner. Sad days indeed.

Ye I heard that as well, was a good joke. They talked about there being some really difficult achievements when it couldnt be farther from the truth.

we just have to accept guildwars 2 has nothing to do with guildwars 1,which was a great game with uw, fow ,the deep ,tombs, eye of the north with 18 dungeons etc

They probably want to make sure they don’t have to make guildwars 3,and they found a great way to make sure no one will buy it anyways.

they had to choose between best game ever or give people the worst feeling ever about a game….gtg now,dont want to miss the sonic tunneling tool offer

blokkiemodo.5437:

gtg now,dont want to miss the sonic tunneling tool offer

Basically sums up entire endgame.

blokkiemodo.5437:

we just have to accept guildwars 2 has nothing to do with guildwars 1,which was a great game with uw, fow ,the deep ,tombs, eye of the north with 18 dungeons etc

They probably want to make sure they don’t have to make guildwars 3,and they found a great way to make sure no one will buy it anyways.

they had to choose between best game ever or give people the worst feeling ever about a game....gtg now,dont want to miss the sonic tunneling tool offer

But but but...

I don’t wanna accept it!

*runs away crying*

Leaving the game for now is what most people would do (if they arent interested in other aspects of the game, already happened to most on my friendslist). They will probably come back to check things out when there is new content. Bug fixes and better rewards/reasons to run them would be nice but it’s not gonna keep people here for long.

Thanks for responding to us Regina.

So, I’m going to preface this by saying that it’s incredibly disappointing to see a developer miss the point of almost every post so completely and entirely. It’s also worrying that in recent months and days, we’ve seen people at ArenaNet complain about how ‘heartbreaking’ it is to communicate. So what? Every company gets criticized and they deal with it. It’d be like if Microsoft stopped giving consumers what they want because they were made fun of in the late 90s/200×.

It also amazes me that the developers say they don’t have enough resources or that it’s ‘too hard’ to actually revamp content or add more permanent content outside the Living Story. God forbid if Anet had a fanbase like WoW’s fans; blizzard cut two cities to save time and people were livid. When ArenaNet has no concrete plans for a significant chunk of the player base, we’re told to suck it up. Or to create specific threads… which have been created over and over again.

Almost nobody I have ever met logs in most days for the living story. They log in for WvW, SPvP and dungeons. Most people I know keep hoping that the next update will have a surprise dungeon to go with the living world… and every time, it’s a disappointing ‘click the dialogue’ game. That’s the main reason I find people still logging in – because they hope the LS will lead to content they like, such as dungeons. Which really should be added, imo because the story dungeons in GW2 were actually fantastic, if unbalanced.

Even true fans-becoming-anet-emplyees Kate Welch and Martin Kerstein leaving… It seems worse than ever. I think it’s time to leave this sinking ship as well, though only as a player.

Regina, I’d like to add something about priorities. I’ll use the Cliffside Fractal bug (where the hammer disappears/can’t be picked up) as an example. This is a game breaking bug. There’s no fix for it – five people lose progress when it happens, as the fractal has to be restarted. This is completely unacceptable. Players should not have to wait for months for this to get fixed. It should be an absolute priority for ArenaNet to put a team on, push through QA and hotfix. This goes for any bug that stalls gameplay and makes players waste time on content that cannot be completed.

It’s all nice and good to talk about fixing little things in dungeons, or changing rewards, but when a bug is so evident, longstanding, and breaking to the content, it not being addressed in a timely fashion is demoralizing and frustrating to anyone doing that content.

synk.8762:

Regina, I’d like to add something about priorities. I’ll use the Cliffside Fractal bug (where the hammer disappears/can’t be picked up) as an example. This is a game breaking bug. There’s no fix for it – five people lose progress when it happens, as the fractal has to be restarted. This is completely unacceptable. Players should not have to wait for months for this to get fixed. It should be an absolute priority for ArenaNet to put a team on, push through QA and hotfix. This goes for any bug that stalls gameplay and makes players waste time on content that cannot be completed.

It’s all nice and good to talk about fixing little things in dungeons, or changing rewards, but when a bug is so evident, longstanding, and breaking to the content, it not being addressed in a timely fashion is demoralizing and frustrating to anyone doing that content.

It might be in bad taste but I have to say: in gw2, especially in fractals, sometimes you just lose progress.

Vox Hollow.2736:

It’s not like I don’t think the living story isn’t flexible enough to handle challenging 5 man content in theory, it’s just a really questionable vehicle.

Like, there’s no doubt the system is agile.
It allows for them to try new things in small manageable chunks, so design-wise the fights can progress quickly and be a constant source of giving us something new.

Super Promising, yeah?

But, just think about what trying to grab some friends and do The Summit’s Shadow of the Dragon fight entails.

• Making some wonky general party in the party finder system.
• A literal procession where you twiddle your thumbs through dialogue.
• A checkpoint system that is so forgiving to failure it nearly undermines the idea of ‘trying’ at all.

Nevermind the larger questions of feeling one-time-only because the Living Story is divorced from progression. It lacks a connection to the gold reward system that serves to give a sense of progress to long-term aesthetic goals. It’s not a system that has a means to address the elephant in the room question of difficulty vs. accessibility (ala’ normal and hardmode dungeons in WoW) which really calls into question the idea it can serve as a means of skill progress or knowledge progress.

It’s like moving a coffin with a golf cart.
I’m sure you could probably get enough duck tape to sort of swing it. But why would you when something like a hearse exists?

Also the dragon fight is soloable no need for a group anyway when you can just solo it on your first/second try(The challenge mode) and be done with it I found myself wishing for something harder where I needed guild mates to help at the very least :/

Lilith Ajit.6173:

It might be in bad taste but I have to say: in gw2, especially in fractals, sometimes you just lose progress.

But at least it’s not RNG based.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

It might be in bad taste but I have to say: in gw2, especially in fractals, sometimes you just lose progress.

I know, I know…it’s par for the course. My point is that bugs that make players lose progress, whether it be in dungeons/fractals, LS, WvW or anywhere else, should be top priority for fixes.

It’s akin to being sold a cellphone that occasionally can’t make calls or a new car that sometimes won’t start. It’s a thing that cannot perform it’s basic function (running a dungeon to completion), and I’d like to see these things addressed with a higher priority than ‘when we get around to it’. These bugs have happened to most everyone who runs fractals and dungeons with any sort of regularity, and I’d wager they affect plenty of people a day. Since we’re talking to Devs in here now, I just wanted to make my opinion known about it.

never

freedom!

Lilith Ajit.6173:

synk.8762:

Regina, I’d like to add something about priorities. I’ll use the Cliffside Fractal bug (where the hammer disappears/can’t be picked up) as an example. This is a game breaking bug. There’s no fix for it – five people lose progress when it happens, as the fractal has to be restarted. This is completely unacceptable. Players should not have to wait for months for this to get fixed. It should be an absolute priority for ArenaNet to put a team on, push through QA and hotfix. This goes for any bug that stalls gameplay and makes players waste time on content that cannot be completed.

It’s all nice and good to talk about fixing little things in dungeons, or changing rewards, but when a bug is so evident, longstanding, and breaking to the content, it not being addressed in a timely fashion is demoralizing and frustrating to anyone doing that content.

It might be in bad taste but I have to say: in gw2, especially in fractals, sometimes you just lose progress.

Never forget.

/salute

ProtoGunner.4953:

Even true fans-becoming-anet-emplyees Kate Welch and Martin Kerstein leaving… It seems worse than ever. I think it’s time to leave this sinking ship as well, though only as a player.

Martin Kerstein was the Community Team Lead – in charge of communication between anet and players.

Kate Welch was in charge of UI – Wardrobe UI that combined the equipment tabs with the Wardrobe and Dye Tab o.O and asked you each time of you are sure you want to use up “0” transmutation charges for applying dyes.

While I wish those 2 the best, I hope we get new and better equipped people to fill the roles they left behind.

synk.8762:

Regina, I’d like to add something about priorities. I’ll use the Cliffside Fractal bug (where the hammer disappears/can’t be picked up) as an example. This is a game breaking bug. There’s no fix for it – five people lose progress when it happens, as the fractal has to be restarted. This is completely unacceptable. Players should not have to wait for months for this to get fixed. It should be an absolute priority for ArenaNet to put a team on, push through QA and hotfix. This goes for any bug that stalls gameplay and makes players waste time on content that cannot be completed.

It’s all nice and good to talk about fixing little things in dungeons, or changing rewards, but when a bug is so evident, longstanding, and breaking to the content, it not being addressed in a timely fashion is demoralizing and frustrating to anyone doing that content.

I brought this up earlier around page 2, but it was probably lost in the Sea of Snarkows.

I just want to add that I’m sure you are working on a fix for it (if not, I’m dumbfounded at your priorities). In addition to fixing it, you need to let us know that a fix is in the works. Repeated posts on game breaking bugs get zero attention — that’s why we feel neglected. Just keep us in the loop, especially on the big stuff.

rojak.1894:

Would we be happy if we only get new Fractals later? Fractals doesnt cut it for me. A new format of elite areas based on ‘open’ maps like Arah with dynamic challenges you have to complete like Underworld/Realm of Torment in Gw1 would win me over.

I’ve been clamoring for UW / FoW styled content since launch. It will never happen.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Too little too late. And it shows that you guys havent really listened to us in the past. We dont want dungeon reworks. We want new content. No amount of reworks will fix the fact these dungeons have become 2 years old and stale. Also when you rework stuff you tend to take stuff away aswell. Still upset about TAFU being removed.

Fractal reward updates and a brand new dungeon (mordrem themed?) are what I would like to see. But that looks unlikely and im certainly not going to sit around waiting for it anymore.

I am 100% sure that a new dungeon will not help. It would be fairly unreasonable to expect more than one to be added at this point. People would quickly burn through the new dungeon and then we will be right back at the same spot we are now. If it isn’t some how absolutely perfect it even has a risk of being dead on delivery. TA aetherpath seems to be a bit like that.

There needs to be some fundamental changes to dungeons.
- better uses for tokens
— once you have your characters all fully decked out in whatever the only thing to do with these is to buy stuff and salvage them. this seems like a very degenerate use
- rewards
— I think it might be better to get rid of the daily rewards and increase the rewards per run. Maybe with a reasonable daily cap to avoid the old CoF p1 issue. The dailies end up having a negative impact on rerunning a path. If some paths never get run as a result then that is clearly a balance issue.

If the new dungeon is actually good it will be added to the tour rotation of many people and be done everyday.

Khisanth.2948:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Too little too late. And it shows that you guys havent really listened to us in the past. We dont want dungeon reworks. We want new content. No amount of reworks will fix the fact these dungeons have become 2 years old and stale. Also when you rework stuff you tend to take stuff away aswell. Still upset about TAFU being removed.

Fractal reward updates and a brand new dungeon (mordrem themed?) are what I would like to see. But that looks unlikely and im certainly not going to sit around waiting for it anymore.

I am 100% sure that a new dungeon will not help. It would be fairly unreasonable to expect more than one to be added at this point. People would quickly burn through the new dungeon and then we will be right back at the same spot we are now. If it isn’t some how absolutely perfect it even has a risk of being dead on delivery. TA aetherpath seems to be a bit like that.

There needs to be some fundamental changes to dungeons.
- better uses for tokens
— once you have your characters all fully decked out in whatever the only thing to do with these is to buy stuff and salvage them. this seems like a very degenerate use
- rewards
— I think it might be better to get rid of the daily rewards and increase the rewards per run. Maybe with a reasonable daily cap to avoid the old CoF p1 issue. The dailies end up having a negative impact on rerunning a path. If some paths never get run as a result then that is clearly a balance issue.

A new dungeon with replayable daily rewards certainly has more to give than one time living story achievements.

Aetherpath failed because of forced timegating through puzzles and unskippable dialogues and cutscenes (hinders replayability and causes irritation). Rewards werent worth the time. Puzzles are only an annoyance and only interesting the first time you do them. If they actually went back and fixed those issues the path could become pretty popular.

We made these things clear to the devs in fractal CDI so im sure they know not to make that mistake again if they ever make a new dungeon. Which they should.

Seeing as the Living story instances have tons of un-skippable cutscenes, I am sure they have not learned their lessons. Seen most obvious in the shadow of the dragon.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Khisanth.2948:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Too little too late. And it shows that you guys havent really listened to us in the past. We dont want dungeon reworks. We want new content. No amount of reworks will fix the fact these dungeons have become 2 years old and stale. Also when you rework stuff you tend to take stuff away aswell. Still upset about TAFU being removed.

Fractal reward updates and a brand new dungeon (mordrem themed?) are what I would like to see. But that looks unlikely and im certainly not going to sit around waiting for it anymore.

I am 100% sure that a new dungeon will not help. It would be fairly unreasonable to expect more than one to be added at this point. People would quickly burn through the new dungeon and then we will be right back at the same spot we are now. If it isn’t some how absolutely perfect it even has a risk of being dead on delivery. TA aetherpath seems to be a bit like that.

There needs to be some fundamental changes to dungeons.
- better uses for tokens
— once you have your characters all fully decked out in whatever the only thing to do with these is to buy stuff and salvage them. this seems like a very degenerate use
- rewards
— I think it might be better to get rid of the daily rewards and increase the rewards per run. Maybe with a reasonable daily cap to avoid the old CoF p1 issue. The dailies end up having a negative impact on rerunning a path. If some paths never get run as a result then that is clearly a balance issue.

A new dungeon with replayable daily rewards certainly has more to give than one time living story achievements.

Aetherpath failed because of forced timegating through puzzles and unskippable dialogues and cutscenes (hinders replayability and causes irritation). Rewards werent worth the time. Puzzles are only an annoyance and only interesting the first time you do them. If they actually went back and fixed those issues the path could become pretty popular.

We made these things clear to the devs in fractal CDI so im sure they know not to make that mistake again if they ever make a new dungeon. Which they should.

Funny you say that when most people are clamoring more exciting boss fights, less generic dungeons where you run from 1 boss to the next and skip trash mob in between. This is exactly aetherpath : different boss fights, new mechanics and overall more challenging than hitting 1.

Aetherpath is a great dungeon. The cutscenes are annoying, yes, and the dungeon needs a it of tweaking to make it more forgiving for new players (ooze fire, sparky and slick in particular) but otherwise it’s a good dungeon.

Certaintly a lot better than all of AC, CoE and IMO better than SE/CoF as well.