Guild Wars 2

Necro you just walked in a circle spamming condis, wasn’t very difficult. Ranger you could just range in a circle, I didn’t do it on ele but I’m pretty sure people just FGS’d her or kited her in a circle B^)

The mechanics weren’t gimmicky, you just had trouble figuring them out apparently.

Zenith.7301:

RedStar.4218:

There was a lot of complaints regarding Aetherblade Retreat because it was supposedly way too hard. I don’t know if Molten got it too because I didn’t pay any attention back then.

Battle for LA was, like a big chunk of LS1, a huge farm and Marionette was a great way to show how low the playerbase general level actually was.

It wasn’t way too hard. It was just badly designed with more imbalanced mobs and yet more mechanisms that favored warriors/guardians.

Silberfisch.3046:

Blaeys.3102:

[…]

As for rewards, I dont see a need to offer anything unique. This suggestion is more about wanting the experience and the challenge more than anything else.

Alternatively, they could offer a one-time achievement reward for finishing all of the 5-player instances in a season – a title or a skin that looked like a reward from the main story with a different color, possibly.

While the sense of achievement for having mastered something difficult will probably be enough for those who simply look for a chellenge, I think additional rewards might be a good idea to get more people to try it aside from the completionists and those looking for challenging content.

Of course, as I said, that is a two-sided sword because it will also invite complaints about something being too difficult – see liadri.

With that in mind, you are probably right, a one time achievement would be better and the idea of a repeatable for multiple rewards might be going too far.
Although that would be a step into the direction aof skill based prestige skins. Something quite a few people seem to be fond of.

Another post confusing “difficult” with badly designed.

Liadri was a dps race that one shot ranger pets. That’s kitten mechanics, period.

On my warrior i could bull’s rush, aoe fear the adds and finish liadri in one single knockdown with 100b>whirlwind.

On my thief all you needed was to spec into acrobatics and caltrops on dodge+ weakness/cripple removal on dodge and it was easymode infinite dodges.

Guardian was also fairly doable.

Classes like ranger/ele/necro had it far more difficult because of again, gimmicky mechanics and a really terrible camera view.

I’m afraid you missed the point I was trying to make. I was using Liadri as an example as to what happens on the forums if something shiny apparently can’t be obtained by everyone due to time limitations, perceived difficulty or whatever reason you can come up with.
I know the only trouble with Liadri basically was that you could get unlucky where the black orbs spawned and the rest was just learning the not-too-complicated pattern. And that some classes had a field day with her and others didn’t.

I wasn’t complaining about Liadri or promoting her as a good example of how challenging content should look like.
Maybe I should have made that clearer.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Necro you just walked in a circle spamming condis, wasn’t very difficult. Ranger you could just range in a circle, I didn’t do it on ele but I’m pretty sure people just FGS’d her or kited her in a circle B^)

The mechanics weren’t gimmicky, you just had trouble figuring them out apparently.

Yeah, ranger operating at half efficiency was a totally a legit mechanic. There was no difference in skill or effort required between classes you are kittening genius.

Kiting in a circle, who would have thought of that in an encounter with a rotating hourglass telegraph. Thanks for missing the point.

Silberfisch.3046:

Zenith.7301:

RedStar.4218:

There was a lot of complaints regarding Aetherblade Retreat because it was supposedly way too hard. I don’t know if Molten got it too because I didn’t pay any attention back then.

Battle for LA was, like a big chunk of LS1, a huge farm and Marionette was a great way to show how low the playerbase general level actually was.

It wasn’t way too hard. It was just badly designed with more imbalanced mobs and yet more mechanisms that favored warriors/guardians.

Silberfisch.3046:

Blaeys.3102:

[…]

As for rewards, I dont see a need to offer anything unique. This suggestion is more about wanting the experience and the challenge more than anything else.

Alternatively, they could offer a one-time achievement reward for finishing all of the 5-player instances in a season – a title or a skin that looked like a reward from the main story with a different color, possibly.

While the sense of achievement for having mastered something difficult will probably be enough for those who simply look for a chellenge, I think additional rewards might be a good idea to get more people to try it aside from the completionists and those looking for challenging content.

Of course, as I said, that is a two-sided sword because it will also invite complaints about something being too difficult – see liadri.

With that in mind, you are probably right, a one time achievement would be better and the idea of a repeatable for multiple rewards might be going too far.
Although that would be a step into the direction aof skill based prestige skins. Something quite a few people seem to be fond of.

Another post confusing “difficult” with badly designed.

Liadri was a dps race that one shot ranger pets. That’s kitten mechanics, period.

On my warrior i could bull’s rush, aoe fear the adds and finish liadri in one single knockdown with 100b>whirlwind.

On my thief all you needed was to spec into acrobatics and caltrops on dodge+ weakness/cripple removal on dodge and it was easymode infinite dodges.

Guardian was also fairly doable.

Classes like ranger/ele/necro had it far more difficult because of again, gimmicky mechanics and a really terrible camera view.

I’m afraid you missed the point I was trying to make. I was using Liadri as an example as to what happens on the forums if something shiny apparently can’t be obtained by everyone due to time limitations, perceived difficulty or whatever reason you can come up with.
I know the only trouble with Liadri basically was that you could get unlucky where the black orbs spawned and the rest was just learning the not-too-complicated pattern. And that some classes had a field day with her and others didn’t.

I wasn’t complaining about Liadri or promoting her as a good example of how challenging content should look like.
Maybe I should have made that clearer.

Fair enough.

Zenith.7301:

There was no difference in skill or effort required between classes

If you only care about completion and not killing her in 3 seconds this is true though.

edit: And aoe only oneshots pet if pet gets hit. inb4 that takes effort nerf warrior.
edit2: calling it a dps race was a nice touch. very funny.

RemiRome.8495:

Zenith.7301:

There was no difference in skill or effort required between classes

If you only care about completion and not killing her in 3 seconds this is true though.

edit: And aoe only oneshots pet if pet gets hit. inb4 that takes effort nerf warrior.
edit2: calling it a dps race was a nice touch. very funny.

“If the pet gets hit”
“Just call your pet back to you it’s not like you’re losing 30% of your damage in that forced downtime just because they can’t be bothered to design AI properly”

The fight only gets easier the more effective DPS you can apply. I certainly had the easier time completing my achievements on berserker setups than trying to do some stupid BM condi ranger attempt.

Or are you going to argue that the game’s encounters don’t get easier with effective application of burst.

Some of you should be plain forced to be invested in maining a ranger for over two years. In all the game formats. Not as a lol-throwaway youtube video, but actually as your main time investment in the game. Then we’ll see how magnanimous you are when playing a ranger or necromancer and pretending like the game isn’t experienced to varying degrees of enjoyment based on which class you picked to play.

I don’t want to nerf warriors I want you to shut the kitten up and stop trying to convince people that some classes are not much better off than others in most game formats and that the current game design favors some classes. By all means enjoy your warriors and guardians and thieves, just don’t be surprised when the other classes say the grass is greener because in fact the kittening grass on their side is all dried up and brown.

Running around in a circle with ranged autoattack of choice is just as easy on every class with any statcombo available at the time (Nomad might fail ¯\(°_o)/¯ ) The fight doesn’t get easier it gets faster.

Did you even bother to try bursting with ranger? Last time I checked they had fears knockdowns and invuln available.

Encounters.

Encounter encounters encounters. GW2 doesn’t have a Story problem. It doesn’t have a Feature problem. It doesn’t have a lack of goals or “achievements”….. as of this last “Feature update” it’s got an Achieve-Ception problem now. Achievements for getting achievements for getting achievements. Who’s idea was that when the most frequent request from everyone was the content to gradually build a Precursor? Nope, instead it’s all a ton of little mini-pieces of pointless fluff added where all that was needed instead was a return to good old strong ENEMY ENOUNTERS and Artificial-intelligence.

There’s nothing in the dungeons even remotely similar to the old Stone Summit armies or Orrion Undead armies or the Menzies hordes or everyone’s favorite “Underworld”… And the combat’s even more 1 dimensional. Interrupts don’t matter. Bosses just ignore status effects and conditions. Every mob feels exactly the same unless it causes knockdowns. There no “Kill Order”. There’s no A.I., only places you stack up and auto-attack from with Might buff Spam. No one is responsible for the wellfare of anyone else in their party nor do they have the abilities to keep anyone else alive once the reflect wall is on recharge. It’s not actually even “Dungeons”. They’re DPS mazes with an occasional annoying puzzle tossed in and not the thinking kinds of puzzles like the old Vabbi mission /w Magrid the Sly

Most instant deaths are completely arbitrary and random feeling. Usually caused by bad telegraphing, NO telegraphing, or being permanently knocked-down. There’s no quick plentiful “little attacks” from big bosses, just a rope skipping minigame of “dodge the 1-shot”.

But worst of all…. Most paths just have no replayability to them. B/c again: the encounters are so 1 dimensional. So people just run the shortest path each day like they’re getting a rub&tug out of the way. Gw1 wasn’t like that. It had real dungeons where real teams of real players mattered. Not 4 warriors and their 1 support kitten

Silberfisch.3046:

@ rojak
Yes, a lot of people complained about them not being able to solo all parts and that they weren’t optional was basically the main problem.
Alongside the complaints about the molten duo being too difficult and both aetherblade bosses being to difficult. Some of that may have been due to the fact that they were only temporary and this might be alleviated with the new living story system.

In addition, we saw multiple complaints about the last step of the dragon’s reach part 1 and 2 being too difficult. And let’s face it those fights aren’t that difficult – they aren’t too easy, but still not overwhelmingly difficult – and are trivialised if you go in with a group instead of going solo.
People obviously didn’t even consider “hey, let’s do that as a group if i have trouble soloing it”. And people complained about the difficulty even though those are permanent addition that can be attempted as often as you want until you get them done.

Of course there is always the option that those complaining are simply more vocal than those who like it. As is usually the case. But it is still something you have to consider as feedback.

Well the game does a poor job of encouraging this. You solo everything(and generally solo it easily) up until you hit those few fights that are too difficult to solo.

The game should give better indicators than killing you that you should get a group for this content.

Am I the only one here that thinks the living story was the easiest piece of kitten ever?

Minigrump.4961:

Am I the only one here that thinks the living story was the easiest piece of kitten ever?

The personal story was even easier.
The fights in the LS were still a bit better than those we’re usually accustomed to, though.

This is nothing but a result of making sure that players basically can’t fail in most other parts of the game.

RedStar.4218:

Barely surprising. They realized that the general level of the community isn’t too great and that if they released something hard, it will barely get played.

So instead of doing something few people will actually enjoy, they actually prefer to cater to the vast majority that loves to “play how I want” (with them it means “I should be able to the same thing as someone geared with full damage gear and traits”) with not too hard content.

Now if only they could fix bugs in the current dungeons (without putting more bugs…) and maybe, just maybe make some encounter more interesting (like Tazza).

Still they released wurm? i don’t know what Anet is thinking, but not every player on the community is of general level. Might aswell make a server with dungeons enabled and others focussing on LS and other boring PVE content.

SkylightMoon.2098:

The other day I asked about the communities current satisfaction(or lack there of) with the amount of update to dungeons/fractals.

Its been confirmed in an interview at gamescon that Anet have no plans to really add any dungeon content. TA aether was apparently a big endeavor for them and theyd rather stick to small QoL changes. That being said, theyd also prefer to do fractals since its less work.

Looks like you guys will be playing the same content for the next 6 months at least. Its really unfortunate how the living story hogs all the resources. Im just waiting for it to go if this is the reality we have to live with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umpR6LhBhW4

4:15

For TL;DR people: It’s about my take on GW2 and what’s become of it in my eyes. A little comparison and what path I think Anet could go.
(reason for it being quite long is that I just jammed the text out of my sleeves with what I was thinking about. Tried to make it a bit fit together but ahh well. It’s late after a long day.)

Well first, thank you for sharing it with us. Second, I’m afraid I wasted over a €100 on the gemstore if Anet keeps this game so under developed. (Might not seem a lot, but it’s the most I’ve paid on MMOs ever.)Third, sad to see Anet throwing away a pretty potent game down the ley lines for Mordremoth to eat. Just because they are too stubborn to focus all their attention to the Living Story. Which is NOT replayable endlessly unless you make a new character which you won’t because the game has nothing else to offer.

What I would like to see is Anet spreading their resources according to what THEY want to implement and what the community would love to see. And if micro-transactions don’t pan out financially as planned switch to another mode, but on if Anet can assure to pump out more content. I’m getting bored here by all the crappy games that have come out in the MMORPG genre. Either over-priced subs or just generally not my piece of cake.

nov 2004 WoW launches
8 months later launch in China
jan 2007 first expansion (Burning Crusade)
Which offered(after 2 years 1 month):
- 2 new races
- new pve area on the map
- dungeon modes for more experienced players

GW2 (After 2 years):
- no new races/classes
- a small area added to the map through living story (Gates of Maguuma)
- A lot of QoL changes with a big amount of changes that just had to be in the launch version.
- expanded some content with new features
- a new kind of dungeon (FotM)
- a kind of side-WvW map (EotM)

To end this reply. It must probably be hard pumping out content when you don’t have a set amount of finances to work with. Next to that you have players who are either interested in one of PvP, PvE or WvW or a mix of them. So you have 3 areas you have to work on. But that doesn’t beat the fact that players are getting bored with the content and a lot don’t bother a lot with playing the LS. I can’t speak for others, that is just my observation.
If Anet wants to pump out story lines why not write more books or make the game offline and put a good story to it. (Don’t get me wrong, the story isn’t the problem it’s quite good.) When I think about it. LS for me is like playing Elder scrolls quests with 4 followers = easy mode. When you finish you get on to the next part.

Well, this post will probably get flamed and is probably a waste of time as of no one will read it anyways especially Anet I think. But just had to get this off my chest.

Thanks for reading,

MangoMonkey.7582:

RedStar.4218:

Barely surprising. They realized that the general level of the community isn’t too great and that if they released something hard, it will barely get played.

So instead of doing something few people will actually enjoy, they actually prefer to cater to the vast majority that loves to “play how I want” (with them it means “I should be able to the same thing as someone geared with full damage gear and traits”) with not too hard content.

Now if only they could fix bugs in the current dungeons (without putting more bugs…) and maybe, just maybe make some encounter more interesting (like Tazza).

Still they released wurm? i don’t know what Anet is thinking, but not every player on the community is of general level. Might aswell make a server with dungeons enabled and others focussing on LS and other boring PVE content.

I won’t bash wurm by saying “that’s also easy” because it’s not. At least not in the same sense of difficulty. Generally when you go from 5 players to 50+, the difficulty shifts from each individual player pulling his own to good communication and coordination skills. At least at first.

Plus wurm had specific mechanics that took a while to correctly understand because unlike dungeons where you can bash your head as much as you like, if you fail wurm, you don’t try it again 20 seconds later and at the same point in the event. You have to start everything over again.

I’ve been in a few organised wurm events way back and it was quite sad to see how many players were there hoping to get carried by the rest of the group. “Meh, others will do the job for me, I don’t have to change my traits, gears and skills for that”.

Now with megaservers, players are slowly getting the hang of everything and more and more are becoming active participants in an event rather than hoping to get carried through. Except for Mark II…they know that whatever they do it’s going to be completed within the time limit, even if instead of doing it in 5 minutes or less like before, they now take 10+.

But still, instead of focussing on make players better and making them really see if they are getting better or not, Anet prefers to hold hands (well now it’s more of a weird forceful hug). Instead of making “hard” or “easy” content to please a side of the playerbase, I would be happy if at first they things to improve the general level instead of doing “easy, easy, easy and here’s something very few are accustomed to”.

RedStar.4218:

MangoMonkey.7582:

RedStar.4218:

Barely surprising. They realized that the general level of the community isn’t too great and that if they released something hard, it will barely get played.

So instead of doing something few people will actually enjoy, they actually prefer to cater to the vast majority that loves to “play how I want” (with them it means “I should be able to the same thing as someone geared with full damage gear and traits”) with not too hard content.

Now if only they could fix bugs in the current dungeons (without putting more bugs…) and maybe, just maybe make some encounter more interesting (like Tazza).

Still they released wurm? i don’t know what Anet is thinking, but not every player on the community is of general level. Might aswell make a server with dungeons enabled and others focussing on LS and other boring PVE content.

But still, instead of focussing on make players better and making them really see if they are getting better or not, Anet prefers to hold hands (well now it’s more of a weird forceful hug). Instead of making “hard” or “easy” content to please a side of the playerbase, I would be happy if at first they things to improve the general level instead of doing “easy, easy, easy and here’s something very few are accustomed to”.

I agree with you on that part for sure.

necro this back to life because everyone should know about this dissapointing announcement. 8 months ago or not

I wasn’t aware of this announcement and being a dedicated fractal / dungeon player this is sad news to read & hear.

I hope they will eventually dedicate some time to this because i fail to believe anet would dissapoint such a big userbase of their game.

alwinp.2791:

necro this back to life because everyone should know about this dissapointing announcement. 8 months ago or not

I wasn’t aware of this announcement and being a dedicated fractal / dungeon player this is sad news to read & hear.

I hope they will eventually dedicate some time to this because i fail to believe anet would dissapoint such a big userbase of their game.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/release-notes-for-twilight-assault/
"by The Guild Wars 2 Team on October 1, 2013"

That’s over a year and a half ago, I’m sure it’s in their plan to pretty much boycott dungeons.

alwinp.2791:

necro this back to life because everyone should know about this dissapointing announcement. 8 months ago or not

I wasn’t aware of this announcement and being a dedicated fractal / dungeon player this is sad news to read & hear.

Agreed. I’ve been waiting for someone to bump this. Hell, this should probably be stickied so new players who like dungeons will know what their future holds.

But let’s be real:

inb4 lock/trashcan

i fail to believe anet would dissapoint such a big userbase of their game.

Give it time. You’ll accept it, just like the rest of us.

I’m sure its being looked into, just like the lupi melee bug?

Anet is like a politician, oodles of promises and hope, but my god do they fail to deliver in any way whatsoever. I suspect the same thing to happen with the profession feedback.

Honestly guys, get over it : you will not find in this game your typical MMO based on challenging instances REQUIRING gear & builds min-maxing.

This game is BAD at dungeons. They tried multiple times, and I’m fairly confident that they got really bad RoI on those game updates. The bad community response to the Aetherpath was probably the nail in the coffin, I’m fairly confident that only a tiny portion of the playerbase even finished it.
The Fractured patch “fiasco” (not a real fiasco but still very underwhelming) was just the confirmation of what they were already suspecting at that point.

I think they have enough experience now to say that this game does not benefit from new dungeons, and that a substantial part of the community has NO interest in difficult, instanced PvE content aside from what is already in game.

At one point it is good management to stop investing in areas where you failed multiple times, and try something else.

I sincerely hope (for you, I’m mostly done with PvE now) that HoT will bring its own way of providing PvE challenges for PvE fans, but be ready to get into it with an open mind, as I’m fairly sure you are running into massive disappointment if you expect traditional dungeons and raids in the expansion.

Those are my thoughts too. Sure would be nice if they’d just admit it. But instead, we’re told:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

if we ever permanently stop working on a particular area of the game, we will tell you all.

Oh well.

Ouroboros.5076:

Honestly guys, get over it : you will not find in this game your typical MMO based on challenging instances REQUIRING gear & builds min-maxing.

This game is BAD at dungeons. They tried multiple times, and I’m fairly confident that they got really bad RoI on those game updates. The bad community response to the Aetherpath was probably the nail in the coffin, I’m fairly confident that only a tiny portion of the playerbase even finished it.
The Fractured patch “fiasco” (not a real fiasco but still very underwhelming) was just the confirmation of what they were already suspecting at that point.

I think they have enough experience now to say that this game does not benefit from new dungeons, and that a substantial part of the community has NO interest in difficult, instanced PvE content aside from what is already in game.

At one point it is good management to stop investing in areas where you failed multiple times, and try something else.

I sincerely hope (for you, I’m mostly done with PvE now) that HoT will bring its own way of providing PvE challenges for PvE fans, but be ready to get into it with an open mind, as I’m fairly sure you are running into massive disappointment if you expect traditional dungeons and raids in the expansion.

Once upon a time, the devs gave us fotm 50-80.
It was a place of great skill and min-maxing. It required no gear. And if you were really stuck you could always spam hammer guardians and experience what the good players had work hard to achieve anyway.
This was the PvE I liked.

See? It is not that Anet is incapable of making content that satisfies us, the problem is just that they tend to remove it because … reasons ….

In fairness, they tried. The fractured patch was an honest attempt at developing content that caters to us. I believe that they understood that a great game needs prestigious challenges, that do not necessarily cater to the masses. They understood that mediocracy does not make a game shine and succeed in this harshly competitive market. And so they worked on the patch. But they did this without consulting us. They ignored everything we had told them, they set themselves on a course with their own unchallenged vision – or actually with no vision: they blindly drove themselves into a wall of failure.

Sine then, nothing happened. No communication, no content, nothing.
Anet, please stop hiding in the corner and come talk to us. We’ll tell you what to, and we promise to be gentle

Step 1. Open Google search engine
Step 2. Type “define permanent”
Step 3. ???
Step 4. Make the realization that Anet hasn’t technically stopped working on a particular area of the game.

Tree.3916:

Step 1. Open Google search engine
Step 2. Type “define permanent”
Step 3. ???
Step 4. Make the realization that Anet hasn’t technically stopped working on a particular area of the game.

Define working

They have stopped producing things for PvE. That’s a fact.
Now if they are working without producing anything that is great, but I am not sure knowing this helps us very much.

Tree.3916:

Step 1. Open Google search engine
Step 2. Type “define permanent”
Step 3. ???
Step 4. Make the realization that Anet hasn’t technically stopped working on a particular area of the game.

True. I suppose life-support is still support.

dlonie.6547:

Tree.3916:

Step 1. Open Google search engine
Step 2. Type “define permanent”
Step 3. ???
Step 4. Make the realization that Anet hasn’t technically stopped working on a particular area of the game.

True. I suppose life-support is still support.

The plug is on the table.

Gyler.8150:

dlonie.6547:

True. I suppose life-support is still support.

The plug is on the table.

“Well you see ! The plug is here ! Stop complaining now :o”

Pedantry is OP.

Id like someone to draw me the infamous table, it must be a big table or would it be like a really small stool? When colin talks about the table my mind is boggled, what the kitten is actually on the table. Perhaps goku could draw us a picture.

Anet continues supporting dungeons by fixing major game breaking bugs/exploits (not interchangeable). I’m sure once they stop doing that, they will tell us all is vain :P

Pedantry is what makes this world go round. You would hate lawyers :P

Tree.3916:

fixing major game breaking bugs/exploits

Daydreamer’s Finery and Elegant Fan in the Gem Store!

This is the cruel harsh reality, this is the focus and the machine driving everything. I just wished they launched paid dungeons, what better way to measure the community interest?

I mean there has to be a small software house company that would be thrilled to get access to some of the engine from Anet and just work pro-bono to design dungeons.

Tera has a special double XP event up, download is nearly done in the background… yeah that’s what happens.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Tree.3916:

Step 1. Open Google search engine
Step 2. Type “define permanent”
Step 3. ???
Step 4. Make the realization that Anet hasn’t technically stopped working on a particular area of the game.

Define working

They have stopped producing things for PvE. That’s a fact.
Now if they are working without producing anything that is great, but I am not sure knowing this helps us very much.

That’s a fact? Correct me if wrong but, we’re getting a WHOLE PVE with an expansion. LS is PVE content. I get your disappointment with the lack of dungeon development but … don’t lie. The haven’t STOPPED producing PVE content since the game was released.

I’ve always hated that dungeons and general PVE are lumped together. Fractals and Dungeons are a completely different thing. It’d be just as right to lump WvW and sPVP under just a PVP title. They’re vastly different.

Yeah PvE=Dungeon + fractals
Then there is LS, WvW and PvP
Know your game modes.

Also I did not say “since the game was released”

Evapor.6849:

Id like someone to draw me the infamous table, it must be a big table or would it be like a really small stool? When colin talks about the table my mind is boggled, what the kitten is actually on the table. Perhaps goku could draw us a picture.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/185736/1373683132446.gif

The team goes into great detail about their table system here.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Evapor.6849:

Id like someone to draw me the infamous table, it must be a big table or would it be like a really small stool? When colin talks about the table my mind is boggled, what the kitten is actually on the table. Perhaps goku could draw us a picture.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/185736/1373683132446.gif

Glorious!