Guild Wars 2

The ONLY part I dislike about this is the no-res kitten applies to trash as well.

the chief problem i have with preventing waypointing reviving in combat is the boredom factor of laying dead when no one can revive you because of the position you’ve ended up. I have never res rushed as it is called as i really grudge paying for armour repairs but like everybody who is truthful i occasionally get downed in a inaccessible place to other players. here is an example. In AC i got knocked off the parapet by the troll and instead of landing in the water I hit a ledge which killed me. I’m then punished for my misfortune by being stuck there for several minutes. This was something Anet said wouldn’t happen in GW2. Just because a group of people res rush doesn’t mean everybody else should be punished. I also disagree with the invulnerabilty on enemies when you attack from a safe place. Attacking from a safe place is just showing intelligence when it happened early on in the game in the open world i thought that was the bug! Please rethink this and at least allow limited combat death waypointing and also allow a full share of loot from corpses of enemies that a dead player has made a significant amount of damage to before dying. i say again please do not make me lie dead as the boredom will drive people like me away from the game.

If the troll knocked you off, first ask yourself why. Should I have dodged the AOE, should I have had stability or aegis. Yeah sometimes everyone just screws up and it’s bad luck you got knocked off the ledge, but your team mates can easily run down and res you while 1 keeps the troll in combat.

I’ enjoy the changes, look at the brightside your repair bills should be less now

Flipside.4152:

Me and my guild arent having much trouble at the no WP change since we use the forgotten res skills some classes have like Glyph of restoration (ele), Illusion of life (mesmer), Warbanner (Warrior). Couple them with invincibility skills, block, stealth they become real life savers, especially on Lupicus. And the only reason you can get one shot by Lupicus is either your running full berserker, you let him eat grubs, or dont have any vit/toughness gear.

Heck we even run PUGs on arah p3 no problem just by instructing the newcomers. It forces players to learn more about the encounter, what skills to bring and what traits would be useful. I still miss res rushing though.

i run with Knights gear actually , weve stopped him from getting grubs and i still get 1 shotted , hell the whole group gets random 1 shotted , gaurdian barely shrugs it off when he got hit (he got downed but not full dead).

DaveNic.5098:

the chief problem i have with preventing waypointing reviving in combat is the boredom factor of laying dead when no one can revive you because of the position you’ve ended up. I have never res rushed as it is called as i really grudge paying for armour repairs but like everybody who is truthful i occasionally get downed in a inaccessible place to other players. here is an example. In AC i got knocked off the parapet by the troll and instead of landing in the water I hit a ledge which killed me. I’m then punished for my misfortune by being stuck there for several minutes. This was something Anet said wouldn’t happen in GW2. Just because a group of people res rush doesn’t mean everybody else should be punished. I also disagree with the invulnerabilty on enemies when you attack from a safe place. Attacking from a safe place is just showing intelligence when it happened early on in the game in the open world i thought that was the bug! Please rethink this and at least allow limited combat death waypointing and also allow a full share of loot from corpses of enemies that a dead player has made a significant amount of damage to before dying. i say again please do not make me lie dead as the boredom will drive people like me away from the game.

thank you , best response here yet.

Seren.6850:

If the troll knocked you off, first ask yourself why. Should I have dodged the AOE, should I have had stability or aegis. Yeah sometimes everyone just screws up and it’s bad luck you got knocked off the ledge, but your team mates can easily run down and res you while 1 keeps the troll in combat.

Edit: or i suppose you could spend a trait slot for reduced falling damage , it MIGHT save you if you try to get the person.
I’ enjoy the changes, look at the brightside your repair bills should be less now

i know the ledge hes talking about and its a death trap for anyone trying to jump down to that ledge , unless your a necro and you exploit the death shroud thing to get them , which you could expect that get nerfed too if they see it. Ive had a member get knocked onto that ledge , you cant get to them unless you jump down to them. So…..what generic response shall we see next? =D

Iehova.9518:

The ONLY part I dislike about this is the no-res kitten applies to trash as well.

yea that is annoying as well , i guess in a sense there should be a system to prevent res rushing during boss fights , during trash though seems a little overkill , people die in the lava in CoF and some end up not being able to respawn because of the continuos lava damage theyre taking. even then though , alot of boss fights still need polishing to have even thought of throwing this system in.

Sovta.4719:

It’s simple:“Learn to play or go away (from dungeons).”
Instead of buffing/fixing some classes they just nerf everything else.

lol , like ranger pets/ necro minions? =)

DaveNic.5098:

the chief problem i have with preventing waypointing reviving in combat is the boredom factor of laying dead when no one can revive you because of the position you’ve ended up. I have never res rushed as it is called as i really grudge paying for armour repairs but like everybody who is truthful i occasionally get downed in a inaccessible place to other players. here is an example. In AC i got knocked off the parapet by the troll and instead of landing in the water I hit a ledge which killed me. I’m then punished for my misfortune by being stuck there for several minutes. This was something Anet said wouldn’t happen in GW2. Just because a group of people res rush doesn’t mean everybody else should be punished. I also disagree with the invulnerabilty on enemies when you attack from a safe place. Attacking from a safe place is just showing intelligence when it happened early on in the game in the open world i thought that was the bug! Please rethink this and at least allow limited combat death waypointing and also allow a full share of loot from corpses of enemies that a dead player has made a significant amount of damage to before dying. i say again please do not make me lie dead as the boredom will drive people like me away from the game.

I won’t disagree that dying in inaccessable places is a problem and that sitting out for good periods of time because no one can reach you is a drag. However, such examples like yours for instance, can work to people’s advantage. Falling to a ledge where the boss can’t reach you just means someone can leap to your position and rez you in complete safety while still technically being in combat.

In your particular example, I’d say you should have been careful. It’s a dungeon. It’s going to be full of death traps and pitfalls that, if you’re careless, you’ll pay for. You should have made sure, if you were going to eat a killer attack, that you die in a good place so it’s easier for people to rez you.

There is even skill in dying in this game. It’s not always about surviving everything with Perfect Dodge reflexes. Getting yourself downed in a spike trap or in a well of lava just means it’ll be that much harder to get yourself back up or others if you fail to do so. My advice to you, until such matters are deemed so much a problem that a change must be made, is to just not fight close dangerous environments. Sometimes this isn’t possible (2nd boss in path1 CoE for example) to stay away from dangerous ledges to which then you have to wonder: Did the devs create this danger so that I must evade their blowout skills? Perhaps that is the real danger here and not the boss.

Stop looking to the game to pamper you throughout your adventure. The dungeons are trying to kill you. Don’t let them.

Enundr.9305:

Sovta.4719:

It’s simple:“Learn to play or go away (from dungeons).”
Instead of buffing/fixing some classes they just nerf everything else.

lol , like ranger pets/ necro minions? =)

yes
necro was my main and i have ranger (for wvw mostly) but lately i run dungeons only with guardian
they even nerfed necro (fear)

Sovta.4719:

Enundr.9305:

Sovta.4719:

It’s simple:“Learn to play or go away (from dungeons).”
Instead of buffing/fixing some classes they just nerf everything else.

lol , like ranger pets/ necro minions? =)

yes
necro was my main and i have ranger (for wvw mostly) but lately i run dungeons only with guardian
they even nerfed necro (fear)

necro is a shadow of its former self….imo (i dont get issues with their AI as much as others seem to have) a simple solution would just be to reduce the CDs (match necro minion summons with GW1 while making the on use skill significantly longer?) and take away the 60 sec pet swap when pet dies (and in dungeons that is WHEN not if =P ) and justk eep it the same as if they were alive when you swap , might even it out imo.

Leo G.4501:

DaveNic.5098:

the chief problem i have with preventing waypointing reviving in combat is the boredom factor of laying dead when no one can revive you because of the position you’ve ended up. I have never res rushed as it is called as i really grudge paying for armour repairs but like everybody who is truthful i occasionally get downed in a inaccessible place to other players. here is an example. In AC i got knocked off the parapet by the troll and instead of landing in the water I hit a ledge which killed me. I’m then punished for my misfortune by being stuck there for several minutes. This was something Anet said wouldn’t happen in GW2. Just because a group of people res rush doesn’t mean everybody else should be punished. I also disagree with the invulnerabilty on enemies when you attack from a safe place. Attacking from a safe place is just showing intelligence when it happened early on in the game in the open world i thought that was the bug! Please rethink this and at least allow limited combat death waypointing and also allow a full share of loot from corpses of enemies that a dead player has made a significant amount of damage to before dying. i say again please do not make me lie dead as the boredom will drive people like me away from the game.

I won’t disagree that dying in inaccessable places is a problem and that sitting out for good periods of time because no one can reach you is a drag. However, such examples like yours for instance, can work to people’s advantage. Falling to a ledge where the boss can’t reach you just means someone can leap to your position and rez you in complete safety while still technically being in combat.

In your particular example, I’d say you should have been careful. It’s a dungeon. It’s going to be full of death traps and pitfalls that, if you’re careless, you’ll pay for. You should have made sure, if you were going to eat a killer attack, that you die in a good place so it’s easier for people to rez you.

There is even skill in dying in this game. It’s not always about surviving everything with Perfect Dodge reflexes. Getting yourself downed in a spike trap or in a well of lava just means it’ll be that much harder to get yourself back up or others if you fail to do so. My advice to you, until such matters are deemed so much a problem that a change must be made, is to just not fight close dangerous environments. Sometimes this isn’t possible (2nd boss in path1 CoE for example) to stay away from dangerous ledges to which then you have to wonder: Did the devs create this danger so that I must evade their blowout skills? Perhaps that is the real danger here and not the boss.

Stop looking to the game to pamper you throughout your adventure. The dungeons are trying to kill you. Don’t let them.

ok ill say this again , the spot he described CANNOT BE JUMPED DOWN TO BY NORMAL METHODS AND LIVE , so in no way is that something someone can exploit with normal methods. I believe if its the same spot i saw someone die at and tried to jump down to myself , you die if you dont waste a trait slot for the reduced fall damage.

People are complaining about lava preventing you from waypointing, and that’s really lava’s being the problem, not the new waypoint changes. Lava shouldn’t be damaging you while dead, regardless of how waypoints work; it’s something they should have fixed a long time ago.

The easiest way would be a timer of 1-5minutes to ress up. Thats by far the most fair solution to this problem.

altho I dont see why they implemented this fix anyway. its already frustrating to run the whole end back to the boss why is this such a big issue.

Enundr.9305:

Seren.6850:

If the troll knocked you off, first ask yourself why. Should I have dodged the AOE, should I have had stability or aegis. Yeah sometimes everyone just screws up and it’s bad luck you got knocked off the ledge, but your team mates can easily run down and res you while 1 keeps the troll in combat.

Edit: or i suppose you could spend a trait slot for reduced falling damage , it MIGHT save you if you try to get the person.
I’ enjoy the changes, look at the brightside your repair bills should be less now

i know the ledge hes talking about and its a death trap for anyone trying to jump down to that ledge , unless your a necro and you exploit the death shroud thing to get them , which you could expect that get nerfed too if they see it. Ive had a member get knocked onto that ledge , you cant get to them unless you jump down to them. So…..what generic response shall we see next? =D

How about this for a generic response, If someone dies in a place they cannot be rezzed report it as a bug. If you cannot dodge, don’t use stability and insist on still being in melee range on troll then think about positioning yourself so you will be knocked back against a wall.

Clivar.3176:

The easiest way would be a timer of 1-5minutes to ress up. Thats by far the most fair solution to this problem.

altho I dont see why they implemented this fix anyway. its already frustrating to run the whole end back to the boss why is this such a big issue.

cause it really wasnt an issue , just like aoe being too strong wasnt an issue outside of a focus fire thing , the thing that annoys me in dungeons is people skip almost every mob , THAT is what should have been adressed , NOT so called “rez rushing”.d it makes no sense to being able to go freely with it in open world to being forced into something like this in a dungeon , where you face more 1 shots / near 1 shots then you would in a big DE going on. Most of it isnt a challenge issue either , its a boss throws insta kills for some dungeons , or bunch of trash mobs that can drop you as fast as a boss , can try to CC them all you want they still come at you , endurance runs out eventually and you get caught trying to avoid while the endurance bar fills up. You need this option to respawn because we dont have someone to hold the aggro , dont have dedicated healers (as i said before im glad for no holy trinity , pretty sure everyone here is) , but this was implemented with a design that requires holy trinity. with mobs / bosses running freely and dropping people in some cases instantly , this system should not have been thrown in without doing major rebalancing in dungeons FIRST.

Seren.6850:

Enundr.9305:

Seren.6850:

If the troll knocked you off, first ask yourself why. Should I have dodged the AOE, should I have had stability or aegis. Yeah sometimes everyone just screws up and it’s bad luck you got knocked off the ledge, but your team mates can easily run down and res you while 1 keeps the troll in combat.

Edit: or i suppose you could spend a trait slot for reduced falling damage , it MIGHT save you if you try to get the person.
I’ enjoy the changes, look at the brightside your repair bills should be less now

i know the ledge hes talking about and its a death trap for anyone trying to jump down to that ledge , unless your a necro and you exploit the death shroud thing to get them , which you could expect that get nerfed too if they see it. Ive had a member get knocked onto that ledge , you cant get to them unless you jump down to them. So…..what generic response shall we see next? =D

How about this for a generic response, If someone dies in a place they cannot be rezzed report it as a bug. If you cannot dodge, don’t use stability and insist on still being in melee range on troll then think about positioning yourself so you will be knocked back against a wall.

gee how about the few classes that DONT have stability(believe its engineer if im not mistaken?) or should we go to the part where its AC so CLOSE QUARTERS and if hes chasing you , you tend to be in melee range? or do you think if a mob is chasing you it goes FURTHER from you? and if your positioning yourself that way , odds are your gonna get cleaved in making sure your doing that rather then focus on avoiding getting hit. Anything else?

Clivar.3176:

The easiest way would be a timer of 1-5minutes to ress up. Thats by far the most fair solution to this problem.

altho I dont see why they implemented this fix anyway. its already frustrating to run the whole end back to the boss why is this such a big issue.

i agree , that would be FAR better then what was just thrown in without all the dungeons being polished off enough for what was just thrown in like that.

Enundr.9305:

Clivar.3176:

The easiest way would be a timer of 1-5minutes to ress up. Thats by far the most fair solution to this problem.

altho I dont see why they implemented this fix anyway. its already frustrating to run the whole end back to the boss why is this such a big issue.

cause it really wasnt an issue , just like aoe being too strong wasnt an issue outside of a focus fire thing , the thing that annoys me in dungeons is people skip almost every mob , THAT is what should have been adressed , NOT so called “rez rushing”.d it makes no sense to being able to go freely with it in open world to being forced into something like this in a dungeon , where you face more 1 shots / near 1 shots then you would in a big DE going on. Most of it isnt a challenge issue either , its a boss throws insta kills for some dungeons , or bunch of trash mobs that can drop you as fast as a boss , can try to CC them all you want they still come at you , endurance runs out eventually and you get caught trying to avoid while the endurance bar fills up. You need this option to respawn because we dont have someone to hold the aggro , dont have dedicated healers (as i said before im glad for no holy trinity , pretty sure everyone here is) , but this was implemented with a design that requires holy trinity. with mobs / bosses running freely and dropping people in some cases instantly , this system should not have been thrown in without doing major rebalancing in dungeons FIRST.

I agree on ur point about skipping mobs. Whenever I do arah runs all I hear are ppl skipping mobs (with glitches or without) the so called speed runs. It sickens me really. When I did this dungeon the first time it was with a bunch of first timers and we cleared our path and I saw no one complain about it. I do however see ppl cry about not reaching the safe spot cuz they cant get passed mobs in the speedruns.

I remember a reply from Anet saying its our choice to skip mobs and if the group is skilled enough and aware enough of the dungeons mechanics they are allowed to skip every trashmob they want (with possible failure as concequence).
They also stated that they could make every trashmob in a dungeon remain its agro to stop the speedruns but they wont do it.
The only reason I can come up with is that its unfair to the ppl who havent farmed dungeons like that as the speedrunners are ahead in gold now.

I used to play aion and in every instance mobs never lost agro and ppl were ok with it as it has always been that way. Im afraid if they do it here there will be mass QQ about how bad the new change was. But eventually ppl will deal with it and it will be for the better.

What about bring that in and leave the WP rez out?

Clivar.3176:

Enundr.9305:

Clivar.3176:

The easiest way would be a timer of 1-5minutes to ress up. Thats by far the most fair solution to this problem.

altho I dont see why they implemented this fix anyway. its already frustrating to run the whole end back to the boss why is this such a big issue.

cause it really wasnt an issue , just like aoe being too strong wasnt an issue outside of a focus fire thing , the thing that annoys me in dungeons is people skip almost every mob , THAT is what should have been adressed , NOT so called “rez rushing”.d it makes no sense to being able to go freely with it in open world to being forced into something like this in a dungeon , where you face more 1 shots / near 1 shots then you would in a big DE going on. Most of it isnt a challenge issue either , its a boss throws insta kills for some dungeons , or bunch of trash mobs that can drop you as fast as a boss , can try to CC them all you want they still come at you , endurance runs out eventually and you get caught trying to avoid while the endurance bar fills up. You need this option to respawn because we dont have someone to hold the aggro , dont have dedicated healers (as i said before im glad for no holy trinity , pretty sure everyone here is) , but this was implemented with a design that requires holy trinity. with mobs / bosses running freely and dropping people in some cases instantly , this system should not have been thrown in without doing major rebalancing in dungeons FIRST.

I agree on ur point about skipping mobs. Whenever I do arah runs all I hear are ppl skipping mobs (with glitches or without) the so called speed runs. It sickens me really. When I did this dungeon the first time it was with a bunch of first timers and we cleared our path and I saw no one complain about it. I do however see ppl cry about not reaching the safe spot cuz they cant get passed mobs in the speedruns.

I remember a reply from Anet saying its our choice to skip mobs and if the group is skilled enough and aware enough of the dungeons mechanics they are allowed to skip every trashmob they want (with possible failure as concequence).
They also stated that they could make every trashmob in a dungeon remain its agro to stop the speedruns but they wont do it.
The only reason I can come up with is that its unfair to the ppl who havent farmed dungeons like that as the speedrunners are ahead in gold now.

I used to play aion and in every instance mobs never lost agro and ppl were ok with it as it has always been that way. Im afraid if they do it here there will be mass QQ about how bad the new change was. But eventually ppl will deal with it and it will be for the better.

What about bring that in and leave the WP rez out?

exactly , i mean if they said that about mob skipping , that theory could stay the same with rez rushing. its no different in how someone handles a dungeon. if they changed the rez rushing (or respawning for most of us) then why not change that as well? id trade the no respawn for no mob skipping imo , its a far more desireable outcome.

Clivar.3176:

I agree on ur point about skipping mobs. Whenever I do arah runs all I hear are ppl skipping mobs (with glitches or without) the so called speed runs. It sickens me really. When I did this dungeon the first time it was with a bunch of first timers and we cleared our path and I saw no one complain about it. I do however see ppl cry about not reaching the safe spot cuz they cant get passed mobs in the speedruns.

I remember a reply from Anet saying its our choice to skip mobs and if the group is skilled enough and aware enough of the dungeons mechanics they are allowed to skip every trashmob they want (with possible failure as concequence).
They also stated that they could make every trashmob in a dungeon remain its agro to stop the speedruns but they wont do it.
The only reason I can come up with is that its unfair to the ppl who havent farmed dungeons like that as the speedrunners are ahead in gold now.

I used to play aion and in every instance mobs never lost agro and ppl were ok with it as it has always been that way. Im afraid if they do it here there will be mass QQ about how bad the new change was. But eventually ppl will deal with it and it will be for the better.

What about bring that in and leave the WP rez out?

Having run the dungeons enough times, I’m more-or-less, indifferent about skipping. I do enjoy fighting everything but in some cases, you either just want to get through with it or like in some of my cases, one or a couple of the PuG members are just not people I feel like sticking around with. That the option to skip is there is just that: an option. Options are always good.

That said, if they introduced a new type of dungeon (call it a Gauntlet mode) where mobs won’t deaggro so you have to take them out, I’d be more than happy to play that mode too.

And I think you just need to let the WP zerg-rezzing go. It’s not in the game anymore and it’s not coming back.

And as for being stranded on that ledge in AC, if there ever was a good time to have that fall dmg reduction trait, it’d be then. Of course, if you don’t have access to the tree it’s in, then logic dictates you shouldn’t be fighting an opponent when there’s a ledge to your back. If you can’t avoid confronting the Cave troll right near the ledge, you can fight the guy in plenty of places were there isn’t a ledge. If no one wants to draw the troll somewhere else, it’s probably because the chance of you being knocked off and not falling in the water is small enough to risk it. If you do end up on that ledge and no one can get you, I hope you learned something from the experience.

If not, I’ll tell you so you can tell all your party members: Don’t fight near ledges, mkay?

Leo G.4501:

Clivar.3176:

I agree on ur point about skipping mobs. Whenever I do arah runs all I hear are ppl skipping mobs (with glitches or without) the so called speed runs. It sickens me really. When I did this dungeon the first time it was with a bunch of first timers and we cleared our path and I saw no one complain about it. I do however see ppl cry about not reaching the safe spot cuz they cant get passed mobs in the speedruns.

I remember a reply from Anet saying its our choice to skip mobs and if the group is skilled enough and aware enough of the dungeons mechanics they are allowed to skip every trashmob they want (with possible failure as concequence).
They also stated that they could make every trashmob in a dungeon remain its agro to stop the speedruns but they wont do it.
The only reason I can come up with is that its unfair to the ppl who havent farmed dungeons like that as the speedrunners are ahead in gold now.

I used to play aion and in every instance mobs never lost agro and ppl were ok with it as it has always been that way. Im afraid if they do it here there will be mass QQ about how bad the new change was. But eventually ppl will deal with it and it will be for the better.

What about bring that in and leave the WP rez out?

Having run the dungeons enough times, I’m more-or-less, indifferent about skipping. I do enjoy fighting everything but in some cases, you either just want to get through with it or like in some of my cases, one or a couple of the PuG members are just not people I feel like sticking around with. That the option to skip is there is just that: an option. Options are always good.

That said, if they introduced a new type of dungeon (call it a Gauntlet mode) where mobs won’t deaggro so you have to take them out, I’d be more than happy to play that mode too.

And I think you just need to let the WP zerg-rezzing go. It’s not in the game anymore and it’s not coming back.

And as for being stranded on that ledge in AC, if there ever was a good time to have that fall dmg reduction trait, it’d be then. Of course, if you don’t have access to the tree it’s in, then logic dictates you shouldn’t be fighting an opponent when there’s a ledge to your back. If you can’t avoid confronting the Cave troll right near the ledge, you can fight the guy in plenty of places were there isn’t a ledge. If no one wants to draw the troll somewhere else, it’s probably because the chance of you being knocked off and not falling in the water is small enough to risk it. If you do end up on that ledge and no one can get you, I hope you learned something from the experience.

If not, I’ll tell you so you can tell all your party members: Don’t fight near ledges, mkay?

it may be in now , but if a player base is large enough to say nay on it and demand it to be removed and put it in say that gauntlet mode dungeon you suggested , it can happen….you annoy your player base enough you lose them. look at a certain mmo that shall not be named ;-P

Seriously, get a grip. This game is by no means difficult, even the boss you mentioned as “impossible to doge omg!” has been soloed on multiple occasions by now. When you mess up, you die, and for that to be meaningful we need we need some sort of immediate punishment. Before this, it was hardly even possible to fail most boss fights, because as long as you could keep him in combat, you would wear him down eventually, even though your group sucks.

We need to allow bad groups to fail, and denying rez does just that, better then a casual <10 sec jog from the last waypoint at least.

wintermute.4096:

Seriously, get a grip. This game is by no means difficult, even the boss you mentioned as “impossible to doge omg!” has been soloed on multiple occasions by now. When you mess up, you die, and for that to be meaningful we need we need some sort of immediate punishment. Before this, it was hardly even possible to fail most boss fights, because as long as you could keep him in combat, you would wear him down eventually, even though your group sucks.

We need to allow bad groups to fail, and denying rez does just that, better then a casual <10 sec jog from the last waypoint at least.

This is not a game like Dark Souls. Not everyone here in all dungeons is looking for an extremely hard challenge. Just because you do not find the content challenging does not mean that it is not challenging for everyone. The dungeons need to get tuned to be difficult to the average player, so it is understandable that some like yourself are not challenged. But to make them all at the challenge level you might prefer would be far above the difficulty threshold for a large majority of players.

That being said, I approve of the removal of rez-rushing. It is bad as it eliminates the need to learn the encounters in lieu of people simply being able to rush it.

SynfulChaot.3169:

This is not a game like Dark Souls. Not everyone here in all dungeons is looking for an extremely hard challenge. Just because you do not find the content challenging does not mean that it is not challenging for everyone.

He’s talking about seemingly the hardest dungeon (Arah) so obviously it shouldn’t be targetted at the average player, for them you have 5-6 other easier dungeons which are said to be easy for majority of players which means he’s below average if he complains about those easier dungeons.

The dungeons need to get tuned to be difficult to the average player, so it is understandable that some like yourself are not challenged. But to make them all at the challenge level you might prefer would be far above the difficulty threshold for a large majority of players.

Dungeons were advertised as a content for hardcore players, they should increase their difficulty level, not normalize it to average player.

haviz.1340:

Dungeons were advertised as a content for hardcore players, they should increase their difficulty level, not normalize it to average player.

Considering the uproar of hutt burt this change would bring, it is preferable to implement a hard mode for full exotic/ascended DM teams.

And it’ll be an agonizing artificial difficulty mechanism like agony.

Iehova.9518:

Considering the uproar of hutt burt this change would bring, it is preferable to implement a hard mode for full exotic/ascended DM teams.

And it’ll be an agonizing artificial difficulty mechanism like agony.

Lol, I don’t have full exotic.

haviz.1340:

Lol, I don’t have full exotic.

Shirley, you can’t be serious.

Iehova.9518:

haviz.1340:

Lol, I don’t have full exotic.

Shirley, you can’t be serious.

I do have full exotic, I’m serious.

haviz.1340:

I do have full exotic, I’m serious.

Obligatory “is your aquabreather exotic” joke.

Iehova.9518:

haviz.1340:

I do have full exotic, I’m serious.

Obligatory “is your aquabreather exotic” joke.

I didn’t mean a piece of equipment you can’t have.

Enundr.9305:

Seren.6850:

Enundr.9305:

Seren.6850:

If the troll knocked you off, first ask yourself why. Should I have dodged the AOE, should I have had stability or aegis. Yeah sometimes everyone just screws up and it’s bad luck you got knocked off the ledge, but your team mates can easily run down and res you while 1 keeps the troll in combat.

Edit: or i suppose you could spend a trait slot for reduced falling damage , it MIGHT save you if you try to get the person.
I’ enjoy the changes, look at the brightside your repair bills should be less now

i know the ledge hes talking about and its a death trap for anyone trying to jump down to that ledge , unless your a necro and you exploit the death shroud thing to get them , which you could expect that get nerfed too if they see it. Ive had a member get knocked onto that ledge , you cant get to them unless you jump down to them. So…..what generic response shall we see next? =D

How about this for a generic response, If someone dies in a place they cannot be rezzed report it as a bug. If you cannot dodge, don’t use stability and insist on still being in melee range on troll then think about positioning yourself so you will be knocked back against a wall.

gee how about the few classes that DONT have stability(believe its engineer if im not mistaken?) or should we go to the part where its AC so CLOSE QUARTERS and if hes chasing you , you tend to be in melee range? or do you think if a mob is chasing you it goes FURTHER from you? and if your positioning yourself that way , odds are your gonna get cleaved in making sure your doing that rather then focus on avoiding getting hit. Anything else?

You are very hungry, but it seems I have no food left.

haviz.1340:

He’s talking about seemingly the hardest dungeon (Arah) so obviously it shouldn’t be targetted at the average player, for them you have 5-6 other easier dungeons which are said to be easy for majority of players which means he’s below average if he complains about those easier dungeons.

Dungeons are supposed to be challenging to the average player, so if someone is having trouble it does not necessarily mean they are below average.

haviz.1340:

Dungeons were advertised as a content for hardcore players, they should increase their difficulty level, not normalize it to average player.

Increasing the difficulty of existing dungeons will just drive more people away from dungeons, not invite more in. Yes, a small subset of ‘hardcore’ players might like it (hardcore players tend to complain regardless), but they would lose a lot more than they would gain.

Iehova.9518:

Considering the uproar of hutt burt this change would bring, it is preferable to implement a hard mode for full exotic/ascended DM teams.

I would fully support a ‘Hard Mode’ for those that want a challenge. That way those that want a challenge get their challenge (maybe) and those that just want to enjoy the game still can.

Enundr.9305:

Leo G.4501:

Enundr.9305:

and you can imagine how many of these new players will see this then say screw it after awhile , telling their friends and others to avoid the game because of this? its not an issue of the dungeon being challenging , there has been no real balance put before this was introduced , to have introduced it FIRST was the mistake , the balances should have been TOP priority THEN the no rez rush , and exploiting the issue? you think they could even get the opportunity to even rez someone in the lupi fight? yes they get LOTS of time to rez someone when lupi is doing his charge at them for a 1shot with little to no chance of getting back up , yes anyone wants to waste there time doing that , while avoiding aoe and hoping they dont get hit by this projectile thats easily to miss that 1 shot kos you. yes cause THAT is exploiting the thing and not a fight that is ridiculous with no form to mitigate half of it but just pure luck in most cases , or being one of the elite crowds that dont leave the computer.

EDIT: and the reason other games put in a system to prevent so called “rez rushing” ? cause they rely on the holy trinity crutch , where as we dont. We rely on dodging and constant movement. the system does not support no rez rush as it is (and no i dont want holy trinity but i also dont want this no respawn thing that is sorta a bad idea)

Everyone will always want to have things done their way, doesn’t mean it’s the right way. How were the devs suppose to balance encounters that were too tough when the metric used to fights is so badly skewed because people are exploiting WPs? They can’t tell if a fight is hard or not by how many times people WP back simply because people were NOT REZZING their team.

It’s a vicious cycle that keeps kittening people like you. You wanted them to rebalance fights so you don’t have to WP all the time from dying but you’re dying because your teammates aren’t helping you so it’s not clear if the fight is actually hard or if your team isn’t working together.

So no. No, you can’t have things handled your way. It’s not efficient.

And you can name practically any profession and I’m certain there are various skills that make rezzing teammates easier. I’d suggest keeping them around on your utility bar until you’re certain you won’t need them.

1) reread the part about some fights (like lupi) making it stupid to even ATTEMPT to rez someone , 2) as far as utility skills those only seem to affect DOWNED players , not dead. i know warriors can get a passive trait to make rez slightly faster , but with the previously mentioned fight like Lupi , its not going to help.

EDIT: and FYI i always tend to keep Spirit of Nature up on ranger , and have that passive skill on warrior for faster revives , doesnt help against a fight like lupi where everything is s 1shot ko.

Common misconception….Lupi is not a 1 shot KO, even on a caster. That is the result of poorly formulated gear/spec to experience ratio. Try adjusting all that is available to your character. When all adjustments fail, practice and learning his animations fail, and working with the same team to learn the fight fails, it is too hard. That is not the case with Lupi. He just happens to be one of the FEW bosses that is not a complete and total pushover for beserker spec and dps spam.

SynfulChaot.3169:

haviz.1340:

He’s talking about seemingly the hardest dungeon (Arah) so obviously it shouldn’t be targetted at the average player, for them you have 5-6 other easier dungeons which are said to be easy for majority of players which means he’s below average if he complains about those easier dungeons.

Dungeons are supposed to be challenging to the average player, so if someone is having trouble it does not necessarily mean they are below average.

haviz.1340:

Dungeons were advertised as a content for hardcore players, they should increase their difficulty level, not normalize it to average player.

Increasing the difficulty of existing dungeons will just drive more people away from dungeons, not invite more in. Yes, a small subset of ‘hardcore’ players might like it (hardcore players tend to complain regardless), but they would lose a lot more than they would gain.

Iehova.9518:

Considering the uproar of hutt burt this change would bring, it is preferable to implement a hard mode for full exotic/ascended DM teams.

I would fully support a ‘Hard Mode’ for those that want a challenge. That way those that want a challenge get their challenge (maybe) and those that just want to enjoy the game still can.

I am soo confused every time I see this comment. Didn’t they try to design explorer mode to be just that, hard mode? Soo…we don’t want to have a challenge in hard mode, we just want to be able to do it, but maybe they should create a hard mode?

Ahh…that makes my brain hurt.

ITT: l2p issues.

Bombul.2506:

I am soo confused every time I see this comment. Didn’t they try to design explorer mode to be just that, hard mode? Soo…we don’t want to have a challenge in hard mode, we just want to be able to do it, but maybe they should create a hard mode?

I completed all of the hard mode dungeons in GW1, and I do find that some of the dungeon paths in GW2 are comparable in difficulty. Yes they can be difficult, but a good team can still clear it with relative ease once they know how. But that is true in all games and instances. Once you know the tricks and mechanics, the content largely loses it’s challenge to you.

As I see it, the problem is that some don’t feel challenged by any of the content. But to make the dungeons difficult enough for those individuals, you will be raising the difficulty level above the acceptable for (what I believe is) the majority of players. ANet must ride the line between what the ‘hardcore’ players want and what the normal players want.

Bombul.2506:

Enundr.9305:

Leo G.4501:

Enundr.9305:

and you can imagine how many of these new players will see this then say screw it after awhile , telling their friends and others to avoid the game because of this? its not an issue of the dungeon being challenging , there has been no real balance put before this was introduced , to have introduced it FIRST was the mistake , the balances should have been TOP priority THEN the no rez rush , and exploiting the issue? you think they could even get the opportunity to even rez someone in the lupi fight? yes they get LOTS of time to rez someone when lupi is doing his charge at them for a 1shot with little to no chance of getting back up , yes anyone wants to waste there time doing that , while avoiding aoe and hoping they dont get hit by this projectile thats easily to miss that 1 shot kos you. yes cause THAT is exploiting the thing and not a fight that is ridiculous with no form to mitigate half of it but just pure luck in most cases , or being one of the elite crowds that dont leave the computer.

EDIT: and the reason other games put in a system to prevent so called “rez rushing” ? cause they rely on the holy trinity crutch , where as we dont. We rely on dodging and constant movement. the system does not support no rez rush as it is (and no i dont want holy trinity but i also dont want this no respawn thing that is sorta a bad idea)

Everyone will always want to have things done their way, doesn’t mean it’s the right way. How were the devs suppose to balance encounters that were too tough when the metric used to fights is so badly skewed because people are exploiting WPs? They can’t tell if a fight is hard or not by how many times people WP back simply because people were NOT REZZING their team.

It’s a vicious cycle that keeps kittening people like you. You wanted them to rebalance fights so you don’t have to WP all the time from dying but you’re dying because your teammates aren’t helping you so it’s not clear if the fight is actually hard or if your team isn’t working together.

So no. No, you can’t have things handled your way. It’s not efficient.

And you can name practically any profession and I’m certain there are various skills that make rezzing teammates easier. I’d suggest keeping them around on your utility bar until you’re certain you won’t need them.

1) reread the part about some fights (like lupi) making it stupid to even ATTEMPT to rez someone , 2) as far as utility skills those only seem to affect DOWNED players , not dead. i know warriors can get a passive trait to make rez slightly faster , but with the previously mentioned fight like Lupi , its not going to help.

EDIT: and FYI i always tend to keep Spirit of Nature up on ranger , and have that passive skill on warrior for faster revives , doesnt help against a fight like lupi where everything is s 1shot ko.

Common misconception….Lupi is not a 1 shot KO, even on a caster. That is the result of poorly formulated gear/spec to experience ratio. Try adjusting all that is available to your character. When all adjustments fail, practice and learning his animations fail, and working with the same team to learn the fight fails, it is too hard. That is not the case with Lupi. He just happens to be one of the FEW bosses that is not a complete and total pushover for beserker spec and dps spam.

tell that to the bolt that hit me for 30k…..lol

Well, the fun element has gone out of dungeons, now it is just a slog. Stupid, Stupid change.

Perhaps a no WP for a HARD MODE yes.

Enundr.9305:

tell that to the bolt that hit me for 30k…..lol

I would love to see a screenshot or something of that, I have yet to see anything a fraction of 30k from those bolts.

As for the rest of the thread. You can’t make dungeons easier, because a lot of people are already bored with how easy they are once you’ve figured them out the first time.

Some people want them even harder. And honestly they’re not that hard if you don’t give up and just adjust your tactics. My group has done every dungeon on level with the gear we had available (greens, few rares from drops, etc. stats all over the place). Some can be extremely difficult, but they’re not impossible and if you decrease that challenge people who do enjoy it will lose out. If you insist on instead of trying to learn better management in the dungeons, that you simply get an easier dungeon, then the only real way to do that so it doesn’t enrage either side is to add more difficulty levels to dungeons in some way. But let’s be honest, a lot of these “dungeons are hard threads”… the posters never ask what they might can do better to finish the dungeon as others stated they have. Instead they just argue they’re too hard no matter what you say or show them it’s possible with what they have. That’s a shame, really.

I think the dungeons should be hard. I do them partly for the experienced and partly to get distinctive looking gear. I just like for my toon to look different and interesting. If the dungeons were easy, then the gear would no longer be as distinctive since it would be more commonly seen.

So in that sense, Im glad that wp rezzing is gone. And I really hope anet doesn’t nerf Lupi and the other few challenging bosses. It would cheapen what I’ve already earned.

That said, I do think dead players should be given an option to somehow still play the game even though they’re dead and play a very minor role. I realize there aren’t simple solutions to this but I think anything that prevents someone form playing the game (which player death is as currently implemented) is frankly against the spirit of gaming in general.

Brennus.1435:

If you insist on instead of trying to learn better management in the dungeons, that you simply get an easier dungeon, then the only real way to do that so it doesn’t enrage either side is to add more difficulty levels to dungeons in some way.

Going on a tangent, let’s say the devs do go through the trouble of making more difficulty modes for dungeons so the players that want more challenge have something to do. They will want reward because they’re putting more effort into completing the content and I’d want the same if I’m going to be using the best gear, food and set up to survive…I’ll probably end up spending more gold to participate than if I did regular dungeons…

…but this isn’t about me, this is about the players that don’t want a hardmode dungeon. If the harder dungeons have better loot, I’m positive these particular individuals will feel left out and complain that they’re cut off from content because they don’t have the time to get geared for the content, that it’s too difficult, that it’s more time consuming and therefore the loot should be distributed fairly to them…which is bollocks, to me.

I think the only reason no one complains about high level fractals having better loot is because…well, it’s not that much better but I believe that will change in a future update.

The expectation that all content should be easily playable by all players is a bit unreasonable. There do need to be some challenges. And those players that do play the more difficult challenges (like if a Hard Mode was added) should be adequately rewarded for their efforts.

Just as not all hardcore players can expect to get everything they desire, not all true casuals can either.

SynfulChaot.3169:

The expectation that all content should be easily playable by all players is a bit unreasonable. There do need to be some challenges. And those players that do play the more difficult challenges (like if a Hard Mode was added) should be adequately rewarded for their efforts.

Why is it unreasonable? We’ve all paid for the game. Challenge isn’t the same thing as content gating.

That said, I don’t think the WP change is necessarily bad. It needs to be finetuned naturally, but that’s not a surprise to anyone. Nothing is perfect on the first try.

Gilosean.3805:

Why is it unreasonable? We’ve all paid for the game. Challenge isn’t the same thing as content gating.

So disabling graveyard zerging is now content gating. Hmm.

Gilosean.3805:

SynfulChaot.3169:

The expectation that all content should be easily playable by all players is a bit unreasonable. There do need to be some challenges. And those players that do play the more difficult challenges (like if a Hard Mode was added) should be adequately rewarded for their efforts.

Why is it unreasonable? We’ve all paid for the game. Challenge isn’t the same thing as content gating.

That said, I don’t think the WP change is necessarily bad. It needs to be finetuned naturally, but that’s not a surprise to anyone. Nothing is perfect on the first try.

Note that I said “easily playable”. I do feel that all current content can be played by non-hardcore players. That is not to say that all the content is easy (despite the arguments to the contrary by some of the hardcore and elitists). Some of it does require teamwork and skill. Whether or not players will put forth the effort to complete this content is up to them.

As for gating, only Agony mechanics are gating. WP disabling is not gating. It is removing the ability to rush content with sheer numbers that was not intended. The removal only improves it, IMHO. It forces people to actually learn tactics instead of having their party force them to die ‘because it makes it easier’.

My earlier post was 2 separate points – I thought I’d made that clear but oh well. A lot of people use the idea of ‘some challenge’ as code for ‘superhardcore’. My point about that wasn’t related to the the waypoint change. I think my earlier post makes it clear that I don’t view the waypoint change as a bad thing.

Every path in every dungeon is fully completable without rez rushing.

Isn’t it okay for a group to fail sometimes? To wipe and have to try again? Not 100% success guaranteed?

I just wish they would bring back the ability to zoom in on others while you are dead like in gw1. The only thing I hate about this change is having to look at my char lying on the ground. Just like every other game that forces you to look at your dead body/ghost for a set amount of time.

SynfulChaot.3169:

As for gating, only Agony mechanics are gating. WP disabling is not gating. It is removing the ability to rush content with sheer numbers that was not intended. The removal only improves it, IMHO. It forces people to actually learn tactics instead of having their party force them to die ‘because it makes it easier’.

Just a point to ponder, if there were ever rez rushing in fractals, I bet it’d be very easily defeatable even with agony. It’s impossible to gate content or even introduce new challenges if one can just keep coming back over and over until the boss is dead.

Basically, no matter how much people miss it, the feature was broken and had to go.