Guild Wars 2

Azreell.1568:

DonQuack.9025:

gw2esp id notice you.

My point was – I could have easily put on all zerker but there was absolutely no need because the difference between the two in a normal pug group setting is so low there is no point and :

No, you wouldn’t have noticed.

Granted if you go into a dungeon using a long bow and a bear then all the zerker gear in the world isn’t going to save you , but playing a reasonably decent spec decently well and in a pug setting you can wear what you want without worry of being noticed.

It’s a stigma – nothing more.

It is not noticeable when all 5 are attacking a target, but I do see a difference between my celestial + travelers and my zerker + scholar’s when it’s just me attacking a target; I think others would notice.

I do usually run ascended celestial armor (travelers’) + zerker trinkets for PUGs on my guard (though the nerf hurt celestial armor a lot more than zerker armor); but when groups ask for zerker only I switch to exotic zerker + scholar’s, and there’s some difference.

For ele it might be less obvious (there are lots of traits that give +dmg modifiers), but my ele is pure zerker anyway — if I play him, it’s to nuke all the things.

Just have to look at your HP and it becomes pretty clear 8^)

Azreell.1568:

maxinion.8396:

Azreell.1568:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I notice. I just don’t call people on it. I leave that to the “ping gear or kick” crowds.

If anything, I’ll usually make comments in guild chat. And when I’m done with a party, I’ll just say, “Welp, done. G’luck all. May your guardians always have reflect handy.”

Actually it’s impossible for you to notice without a damage meter.

So, I’m going to call you out on this.

Even in zerker gear peoples dps and performance very GREATLY.

So , You can have someone in full zerker doing terrible dps and someone in for example in celes or zealot doing more simply because they are playing better and and using their cds and rotations appropriately.

So no offense but I call bs on your statement.

It’s not unreasonable to know the approximate damage to expect from each class. Can you tell how much one person is doing in AC, where everything dies immediately no matter what? Probably not. Can you tell in Arah or CoE or Fractals? Absolutely.

Requiring zerker with no ping is fine because there usually will only be a handful of people cheating like you, and most will follow the request. That’s always enough in the low-level dungeons.

Having experienced the highest levels of fractals as well as completing / solo’ing Arah , I will be the first to tell you – It is still impossible for you to be able to tell which person is doing less damage in any group. The difference even in Arah, CoE or Fractals is minimal unless you are running with a static group.

Also, As I said once again – A person in full zerker does not ensure the maximum damage for that particular spot due to player skill , spec and class.

It’s simply a stigma.

Also, To clarify – I was not cheating as I have stated prior I have full ascended zerker sets which at any point in time I could have put on – but the point is it was never required nor asked.

This stigma is similar to people desiring heavies only for parties or warriors only thinking they are the highest dps.

The bottom line is without a ping there isn’t a person alive who is going to be able to tell if any particular player is wearing zerker or not if they are playing the class with even the smallest amount of skill.

Anyone who gets kicked from a party for lack of zerker is doing something wrong far beyond gear.

If the post said “zerker”, than zerker was expected, and you were cheating/lying to the group, even if they didn’t ask. That’s common courtesy, but like I said, most “zerker only” groups that don’t actually require pings are ok with one or two hanger-ons (especially if they can blend in). It’s usually good enough for most dungeons anyway, and not worth confronting people like you who want to argue.

Depending on the encounter, you can absolutely tell if someone is a bad/ not wearing zerker. From how much HP they lose from specific hits, you can gather what their toughness/vitality is. From using crap like Banner of Defense or Strength in Numbers, you can recognize bad builds (and likely bad gearsets). From bad weapons like Staff on Guard or Greatsword on Mesmer, you also are more likely to not be wearing the right gear. Food/consumables/stacking set are also often giveaways. In AC, not one-shotting a burrow with icebow is a giveaway (but Soldiers can also one-shot, so it’s not guaranteed). Zerker is short for “play a proper meta build,” and as the build and gear are correlated, if you see a bad build you can guess that there’s bad gear as well.

Can all this be avoided? Absolutely— if you dodge perfectly so you never get hit, if you focus your damage with the rest of the group so your individual dps is never revealed, if you run the right traits and utilities, than you can hide. But at that point, you’re doing more or less everything correct, so you might as well play zerker and do more damage with the same quality of play. I guess that’s what you’re doing— way to stick it to the man. I would rather have an otherwise meta player using knight’s than a bad zerker doing everything else wrong, so that’s true. But these are the exception, and not the rule.

Azreell.1568:

linuxotaku.4731:

Azreell.1568:

DonQuack.9025:

gw2esp id notice you.

My point was – I could have easily put on all zerker but there was absolutely no need because the difference between the two in a normal pug group setting is so low there is no point and :

No, you wouldn’t have noticed.

Granted if you go into a dungeon using a long bow and a bear then all the zerker gear in the world isn’t going to save you , but playing a reasonably decent spec decently well and in a pug setting you can wear what you want without worry of being noticed.

It’s a stigma – nothing more.

It is not noticeable when all 5 are attacking a target, but I do see a difference between my celestial + travelers and my zerker + scholar’s when it’s just me attacking a target; I think others would notice.

I do usually run ascended celestial armor (travelers’) + zerker trinkets for PUGs on my guard (though the nerf hurt celestial armor a lot more than zerker armor); but when groups ask for zerker only I switch to exotic zerker + scholar’s, and there’s some difference.

For ele it might be less obvious (there are lots of traits that give +dmg modifiers), but my ele is pure zerker anyway — if I play him, it’s to nuke all the things.

My point was simply no one in this game can tell you for 100% certain one way or another if another player in your group is wearing zerker or not.

There are to many variables which make it impossible as well as a lack of any type of dps meter.

The point is people getting kicked from "zerker’ groups are doing a lot more wrong then not wearing zerker gear and that is what caused them to be kicked more then likely.

That’s certainly true. You don’t say “zerker only” and require pings and expect people to be 100% quality, but it does raise the standards on average, and that’s why people do it.

Azreell.1568:

My point is simple – It’s a stigma and the time difference in zerker and non zerker groups is minimal at best all else being equal.

Assuming the only differing factor is gearset, the time difference is still significant, especially over a longer period of time. Over one-two dungeons it may be just a few minutes, but when you’ve chained 13-15 in a row those minutes can add up substantially.

There is no stigma. The reality is that if you use non-zerker gear, you are placing an arbitrary cap on your potential. That is fact, it can not be argued.

No logical person is trying to argue that using zerker means you perform at maximum potential. The argument is that using zerker gear makes performing at maximum potential a POSSIBILITY. It is the least performance inhibiting gear set in the game, other gear sets only result in a reduction in maximum potential.

Just from a DPS point of view, or in general? You’re probably right, people usually won’t notice if their kill is 5-10 seconds slower (in a pug).

Though, at this point I don’t see what you’re arguing for. Players who are performing so perfectly that they never allow for a situation that would show them taking less damage than they should be, are most definitely the anecdotal exception. I feel like you’re kind of just playing devils advocate to get the usual bait biters to argue with you.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Just from a DPS point of view, or in general? You’re probably right, people usually won’t notice if their kill is 5-10 seconds slower (in a pug).

Though, at this point I don’t see what you’re arguing for. Players who are performing so perfectly that they never allow for a situation that would show them taking less damage than they should be, are most definitely the anecdotal exception. I feel like you’re kind of just playing devils advocate to get the usual bait biters to argue with you.

This is a more succinct version of what I was getting at. Thanks for that, Cookie.

I think I’ve found the root cause of this zerker hate.

For about 1yr I’ve been posting something along the lines of “p1 experienced zerks only” and just going with whoever I get after maybe kicking one or two PVT leechers. 30% of the people who join my LFG are NOT zerks and are there hoping for an easy carry. 20% of the people are zerks but have a horrible build/utilities/weapons. 40% just don’t know how to play their class efficiently nor how to handle themselves when things don’t go as planned. This resulted in 90% of my “zerks only” pug runs being a total mess. In the end people just remember the horrible experience they gotten from a supposedly “elite zerk speedclear” run and blame it all on the zerks/elitist.

Once I started actually checking everyone who enters and promptly kicking anyone who isn’t running proper gear, dps build, or appropriate weapons & utilities I found that now majority of my pug runs started to actually be GOOD. At the end of such run everyone always says something like “only if all my runs were like this…” before leaving.

Zerk hate comes from people joining “zerks only” runs where majority of party members just can’t handle the meta, and then when kitten hits the fan they simply resort to blaming/hating the “zerks” and not seeing that they themselves are the real problem.

Azreell.1568:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Who said anything about measuring through damage dealt?

Time it takes to complete said content is another way in which it is measured and my prior reply still applies.

You can call bs as much as you’d like. It really doesn’t bother me. People who are observant and call tell what others are wearing in their party. People who aren’t observant will say it doesn’t matter what gear a person wears.

Azreell.1568:

frifox.5283:

I think I’ve found the root cause of this zerker hate.

For about 1yr I’ve been posting something along the lines of “p1 experienced zerks only” and just going with whoever I get after maybe kicking one or two PVT leechers. 30% of the people who join my LFG are NOT zerks and are there hoping for an easy carry. 20% of the people are zerks but have a horrible build/utilities/weapons. 40% just don’t know how to play their class efficiently nor how to handle themselves when things don’t go as planned. This resulted in 90% of my “zerks only” pug runs being a total mess. In the end people just remember the horrible experience they gotten from a supposedly “elite zerk speedclear” run and blame it all on the zerks/elitist.

Once I started actually checking everyone who enters and promptly kicking anyone who isn’t running proper gear, dps build, or appropriate weapons & utilities I found that now majority of my pug runs started to actually be GOOD. At the end of such run everyone always says something like “only if all my runs were like this…” before leaving.

Zerk hate comes from people joining “zerks only” runs where majority of party members just can’t handle the meta, and then when kitten hits the fan they simply resort to blaming/hating the “zerks” and not seeing that they themselves are the real problem.

It boils down to this:

There is absolutely no content in this game that requires zerker anything.

But, Some people prefer zerker and some don’t.

I have days I want to run it and days I don’t.

PvE is mindless in GW2 as it is quite frankly and the only thing zerker is intended to do is try and make the run go faster.

For me at this stage of the game – I could care less if the run takes me 5 minutes or 8 minutes.

I’m in no rush anymore to get to the the next stack and dps dungeon.

I understand your point of view, I do the same most of the time now. Usually post “name of dungeon path, something witty” and go with it rather than just zerker only. Something about taking 5 to 10 minutes to kill the effigy is truly awe inspiring.

Some people though don’t want to waste their time carrying other people in dungeons though, it is their right to play this way and the group description says it. I’m not sure what i’m writing anymore, it’s late and i’m tired.

Play how you want, but let others play how they like.

frifox.5283:

I think I’ve found the root cause of this zerker hate.

For about 1yr I’ve been posting something along the lines of “p1 experienced zerks only” and just going with whoever I get after maybe kicking one or two PVT leechers. 30% of the people who join my LFG are NOT zerks and are there hoping for an easy carry. 20% of the people are zerks but have a horrible build/utilities/weapons. 40% just don’t know how to play their class efficiently nor how to handle themselves when things don’t go as planned. This resulted in 90% of my “zerks only” pug runs being a total mess. In the end people just remember the horrible experience they gotten from a supposedly “elite zerk speedclear” run and blame it all on the zerks/elitist.

Once I started actually checking everyone who enters and promptly kicking anyone who isn’t running proper gear, dps build, or appropriate weapons & utilities I found that now majority of my pug runs started to actually be GOOD. At the end of such run everyone always says something like “only if all my runs were like this…” before leaving.

Zerk hate comes from people joining “zerks only” runs where majority of party members just can’t handle the meta, and then when kitten hits the fan they simply resort to blaming/hating the “zerks” and not seeing that they themselves are the real problem.

^^^This.^^^

Zerk only groups are really far away from true full zerk experienced parties.
And ofc people lie all the time or expect some miracle in zerker gear while playing a bad build in a really inefficient way (guardians without WoR and so on).

Personally i still can’t really understand why a very big portion of playerbase is still don’t willing to play the way the game meant to be played. Berserker (or something similar) gear with dps oriented builds are the way to go, there is no point to wear PVT, camping low damage weapons, etc. I literally felt sick when i tried to run in PVT recently. After you taste the thrill of a smooth run it’s hard to go back.
I just don’t understand. :/

dalanor I don’t know whether to call you ignorant or arrogant. “I don’t understand why a big portion of player base still (isn’t) willing to play by the wya the game (is) meant to be played. Beserker gear is the wya to go.”
Thats is one of the stupidest things I have seen in GW2. first, the point of the game is to play in whatever way you find the most fun to the best of your ability, all builds have potewntial applicatoins, its working as a team that matters. Yes, some builds like a staff guardian aren’t very public friendly due to a more specialized nature, but doesnt make them ‘bad’, just more specialized. Second, you think the beserker build is the only way to be played? Thats insanely foolish, I would argue the beserker build is way too squishy, I can’t stand that kind of high damage low dodge mentality, I need armor and defense, as running in and praying I beat my enemy in the first shot isn’t my style, I am not kyosuke nambu.

Am I the only one getting a bit angry about this beserker build obsession? Now were banning people because they don’t have a gear build you don’t like? way to ruin the game for everyone else. If the game was meant to be beserker, guess what, we wouldnt have different builds. The only thing your doing by this useless stigma is giving players like me who are trying to learn and problem solve a middle finger for not being your dog.

and as to the comment of “I just don’t understand” allow me the same comment I made to the equally offensive “why can’t people just follow rules.” Because people aren’t dogs that follow orders without question, most people play games and join combat to fight their own unique way in a game that allows said uniqueness, not follow your stereotype.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Because people aren’t dogs that follow orders without question

This is exactly why I end up kicking those people – they are NOT following the orders, aka my LFG description. If you want to play differently, don’t join.

You can pretty much play the game, especially the dungeons, in any gear/traits/utilities you like, as long as the group as a whole is consistent and adapts strategies that work with their gear/builds. What you can’t do is mix and match without regards for the weak points of the individual builds.

Five berserker-geared players that know how to adapt their builds, how to use their dodges/blocks/blinds/whatever and understand the content can breeze through even the toughest dungeons and win. Replace a couple of those players with other builds that are used to other strategies, and things will fall apart rapidly because the one weakness of most berserker-geared builds is that they won’t survive drawn-out fights.

I’ve got two accounts with dungeon master titles, all dungeons done myself with friends/guildies without berserker gear, often with wvw gear and full support builds on the team. We took our time to get through each dungeon, found our strategies to deal with whatever came up, and had a lot of fun. Any of us would at the same time have easily crashed a “berserker” party simply because we couldn’t contribute to the “soft” defenses the full-zerker strategie employs, namely killing the mobs quickly enough to not run out of dodge/block/cc/whatever.

I’ve also got full berserker gear on my two mesmers by now, and am in the process of gearing up the rest of my characters, and it’s a lot of fun, learning different strategies and seeing them work with the right team composition, just like the first “round” of dungeon experiences was. Both is viable, both is different kinds of challenges and fun, it’s just that mixing without thinking simply doesn’t work. I’ve still got a ton to learn about different strategies to adapt with a damage-only group, but that’s what I enjoy in this kind of game, learning new ways of doing things with new (or rather different) tools.

If running in and praying I beat my enemy in the first shot isn’t your style, don’t to it. Play with like-minded people, but accept that not all gear and trait set-ups work with yours, and not all people want to play with a set-up that matches what you enjoy. This game, unlike others, actually allows you to play those dungeons and succeed in them with your prefered playstyle, or else I never would’ve gotten through all dungeons casually.

It’s really not much different than other games … I’ve played my share of MMO endgames, and when you really look at it, the hardest challenges in other games eventually came down to tank stack max survivability, healer stack max outgoing healing, rest stack max damage, too. Actually, if I compare it to the last game I played, it was much more restricitve, since stacking max whatever really was the only way to beat the hardest challenges there, where in gw2 you can succeed with a variety of set-ups, many of which work just fine without max damage.

Berserker certainly is not the way for everyone. I have a lot of (casual) friends in this game that would never feel comfortable with the kind of challenge the berserker gear and related playstyles pose. They enjoy the game, including all of the dungeons, in their prefered gear (and don’t care if it takes them twice as long to do it … some of them actually prefer to rp-walk through Twilight Arbor and enjoy the scenery to counting out their dungeon tokens in the end ).

Accept that not all people enjoy the game the way you do, look for groups that enjoy what you like (through friends-list, guild or properly labled lfgs), and don’t worry what others do. This game’s dungeons certainly are accessible to most, if not all, players, despite the fact that a large part of the vocal dungeon forum posters prefers one style of gear/play.

You expect people to follow specific build orders in a videogame simply because you don’t like seeing other buildings? the only reason for this would be to fit a niche in you party. Your treading dangerous ground with that post.

edit: @frifox btw

And thanks for the post Rasimir, good to see some players who can play without specific builds. Makes me feel more like a failure for my terrible run this morning, but not in a bad way.

So you encourage disrespecting what people politely request in their LFGs? If I say I only want zerkers only, then please respect my choice and don’t hit the join button if you don’t want to grant me my request.

Thanks.

Nope.

Me and many other people on this forum have tested pretty much every possible build / setup out there. After countless hours of testing we narrowed builds down to a select few that we found to perform the best in most situations. This is where “meta builds” comes from. It’s not that we don’t like seeing other builds, but rather a simple fact that we found those builds to be much less efficient than the ones we are suggesting.

VideoGamermike.5813:

dalanor I don’t know whether to call you ignorant or arrogant.

You can call me a jerk, i don’t mind.

“I don’t understand why a big portion of player base still (isn’t) willing to play by the wya the game (is) meant to be played. Beserker gear is the wya to go.”
Thats is one of the stupidest things I have seen in GW2. first, the point of the game is to play in whatever way you find the most fun to the best of your ability, all builds have potewntial applicatoins, its working as a team that matters.

It’s a game, you should have fun. But fun is subjective. Some players enjoy role playing tanks and healers, some just enjoy smooth and fast runs.
All build is viable, but since there is no other thing to measure efficiency than faster killing times, full offensive builds became the most accepted ones. Not to mention you can avoid almost everything without the extra armor and hp and conditions sucks in every possible way.

Yes, some builds like a staff guardian aren’t very public friendly due to a more specialized nature, but doesnt make them ‘bad’, just more specialized.

In PvE, it has a very very niche use (CC wall in fractals and for the flowers in Twilight Arbor), but for damaging purposes, it’s bad.

Second, you think the beserker build is the only way to be played? Thats insanely foolish, I would argue the beserker build is way too squishy, I can’t stand that kind of high damage low dodge mentality, I need armor and defense, as running in and praying I beat my enemy in the first shot isn’t my style, I am not kyosuke nambu.

When you get more experienced in the game, you will understankitten

he only one getting a bit angry about this beserker build obsession?

Nope, we have a ranting topic about how someone hates berserkers for their made up reasons everyday. People are ignorant and not willing to adapt. Skritt happens.

Now were banning people because they don’t have a gear build you don’t like? way to ruin the game for everyone else. If the game was meant to be beserker, guess what, we wouldnt have different builds. The only thing your doing by this useless stigma is giving players like me who are trying to learn and problem solve a middle finger for not being your dog.

No one is force you to join into zerker groups, you can make your own LFG. Be less ignorant and respect other people playstyle, since they find that way more fun.

and as to the comment of “I just don’t understand” allow me the same comment I made to the equally offensive “why can’t people just follow rules.” Because people aren’t dogs that follow orders without question, most people play games and join combat to fight their own unique way in a game that allows said uniqueness, not follow your stereotype.

Any game based on numbers has a most efficient way to play, especially MMORPG-s where your damage output kills enemies. There is no point to use everything else, when we don’t have tanks to artificially soak up damage, but we have active defenses which negates incoming damage by 100%. However, other builds are viable too. You can afk kill bosses in healing gear or unbound your dodge key and still faceroll trough the hardest dungeon without any dodge.

frifox’s post is freakin’ awesome.

frifox.5283:

I think I’ve found the root cause of this zerker hate.

For about 1yr I’ve been posting something along the lines of “p1 experienced zerks only” and just going with whoever I get after maybe kicking one or two PVT leechers. 30% of the people who join my LFG are NOT zerks and are there hoping for an easy carry. 20% of the people are zerks but have a horrible build/utilities/weapons. 40% just don’t know how to play their class efficiently nor how to handle themselves when things don’t go as planned. This resulted in 90% of my “zerks only” pug runs being a total mess. In the end people just remember the horrible experience they gotten from a supposedly “elite zerk speedclear” run and blame it all on the zerks/elitist.

Once I started actually checking everyone who enters and promptly kicking anyone who isn’t running proper gear, dps build, or appropriate weapons & utilities I found that now majority of my pug runs started to actually be GOOD. At the end of such run everyone always says something like “only if all my runs were like this…” before leaving.

Zerk hate comes from people joining “zerks only” runs where majority of party members just can’t handle the meta, and then when kitten hits the fan they simply resort to blaming/hating the “zerks” and not seeing that they themselves are the real problem.

WELL SAID

frifox.5283:

Zerk hate comes from people joining “zerks only” runs where majority of party members just can’t handle the meta, and then when kitten hits the fan they simply resort to blaming/hating the “zerks” and not seeing that they themselves are the real problem.

The problem is that people think that, because they’re wearing berserker stuff, then that means they’re strong enough to speed-clear dungeons, and that they show respect to their parties. This is a logical flaw, it’s not because you wear zerk that you’re strong, it’s because you’re strong that you wear zerk. The hate for zerk simply comes from this naive misunderstanding by most players.

LFG messages like “zerk only, gear check” therefore address the issue in the wrong order, since you’ll get tons of unskilled players wearing zerk – which obviously isn’t the point of the LFG. If you truly wanted to form a speed-clear group, then not referring to the gear, but rather to the strength of players, would probably deter more unskilled players from joining – although you can always have cheaters / leechers.

“Speed-run, group-DPS optimized builds, experienced players only”
“Speed-run, dungeon soloers level only”.

Of course, the best thing ever is to not LFG, but run instances with people you know, respect and have the same view as you on how a dungeon should be run

The problem is two fold. The content in this game is so low in terms of difficulty the player base made up this ridiculous standard second unless you are running a static group the time difference is a pug is almost negligible.

You say this, but we have developer posts clearly stating that the average player skill level is so low that they can’t see a reason to implement the simplest of things, like combo field priority, because the majority of players wouldn’t understand it. There is a small amount of players who find Pve easy. The rest find it incredibly challenging. The elite player base set standards for what they find fun. Whether you agree that that is okay is neither here nor there, because it is what it is. Pugs watch videos of the pros doing speed runs and they want to emulate that efficiency. That’s where the stigma comes from. It’s how people want to play. Efficiently. Smoothly.

Azreell.1568:

There is NOT A SINGLE ENCOUNTER IN GAME WHICH REQUIRES ZERKER.

Meanwhile i agree, i would say it’s balanced enough that content is doable both with a full offense or defensive setup. But a full party of the same type of build has better synergy. Mix it up and it will become a complete mess.

Azreell.1568:

snip

Why do you keep making the same few points over and over as if we can’t understand it? Stop.

Azreell.1568:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

The problem is two fold. The content in this game is so low in terms of difficulty the player base made up this ridiculous standard second unless you are running a static group the time difference is a pug is almost negligible.

You say this, but we have developer posts clearly stating that the average player skill level is so low that they can’t see a reason to implement the simplest of things, like combo field priority, because the majority of players wouldn’t understand it. There is a small amount of players who find Pve easy. The rest find it incredibly challenging. The elite player base set standards for what they find fun. Whether you agree that that is okay is neither here nor there, because it is what it is. Pugs watch videos of the pros doing speed runs and they want to emulate that efficiency. That’s where the stigma comes from. It’s how people want to play. Efficiently. Smoothly.

As I stated the only difference in Zerker and Non is in a static setting – which is not what we are talking about.

Look at it another way – Forcing players to use zerker is counter productive and more times then not removes any type of smooth experience. Some players preform better with a more survivable gear set-up – some with a more offensive.

If a player is downed – you require another player to rez them. So now out of 5 players you loose 2 for a period of time. Repeat that a few times and any DPS gain zerker might have had is now lost due to DPS up time.

If I am in a pug I would find more benefit in DPS up time then the zerker “meta”.

All I am trying to explain is that unless you are going for a dungeon clear record – there is almost no reason nor requirement to desire an all zerker group.

No one here is forcing anyone to run berserker. People choose to because they want to get done quickly.

And I’m sorry, while I don’t strive for absolute efficiency I prefer a fast run to a slow run. Because it means more rewards because more paths. Now if you have all the time in the world to play it doesn’t matter. If you’re a working traveling woman like myself, it does matter.

so yes there’s a reason to run berserker outside of a record run. Please accept that.

Azreell.1568:

Look at it another way – Forcing players to use zerker is counter productive and more times then not removes any type of smooth experience. Some players preform better with a more survivable gear set-up – some with a more offensive.

But zerking is just stack in a corner and press one. ;D

If a player is downed – you require another player to rez them. So now out of 5 players you loose 2 for a period of time. Repeat that a few times and any DPS gain zerker might have had is now lost due to DPS up time.

If players would learn that rally mechanic exist, that would be great. And might stacking. And how builds works. And what DPS means. And combo fields. And and and …

If I am in a pug I would find more benefit in DPS up time then the zerker “meta”.

Everyone runes a proper build, zerker gear included, stuff dies fast (average pug who contantly complain only runs AC and CoF anyway), 100% DPS uptime and a big bucket of win.

All I am trying to explain is that unless you are going for a dungeon clear record – there is almost no reason nor requirement to desire an all zerker group.

Yes, there is for certain people. I guess you’ve never had a good run with actual zerker people, that’s why you are so biased.

A simpler solution would be to realise that you’ve made your point and stop repeating the same stuff.

I’m sure I’m not alone when I say that I’m getting tired of reading the same stuff on these forums day in day out. You won’t be the first, and I doubt you’ll be the last.

Oh well, I’ll just leave the witty comments to my bro deSade, then.

/goeselsewhere

Azreell.1568:

All I am trying to explain is that unless you are going for a dungeon clear record – there is almost no reason nor requirement to desire an all zerker group.

There always is one reason: personal preference. If I prefer to spend my dungeon time with people in pink armour dyes, who are you to say that there is no reason for me to desire such and ask for it in my lfg post because it makes me enjoy the run more? If somebody else enjoys running with people with full berserker equipment, even just because it makes them feel better, then just let them.

There certainly is no reason to tell others what they enjoy/don’t enjoy.

Elegie.3620:

“Speed-run, group-DPS optimized builds, experienced players only”

Joined an Arah P1 run labelled like that yesterday (this morning for me).
They were in zerker gear, they were using the right weps and utilities (mostly warriors in Arah, go figure why :/)…

I skipped alone to the Ooze, they had to redo it three times and brought mobs. They died to them.

I skipped with one of them to the entities. Had to wait 15 minutes for everyone to get there. They died on the entities. Had to finish.

We got to Lupi. One wipe due to 4 bubbles (no endurance left for me). We lost a warr, I asked for a mesmer. LFG at this point stated : “P1, exp zerker, dps build, melee Lupi, need mesmer”. We got a fourth warr :/ They were slow on skipping so I solo’d Lupi with two people watching, without believing it was possible until I was done (I read that chat and it was fun).

I knew that skritt was going to happen at the astronom when I saw the guardian carrying a crystal. Took missile deflection. Stayed alive after they wiped, kiting the orbs to reflect 4 at a time.

It’s not only about gear, traits, weps and wanting to speed-run after having trained/watched videos. They still failed due to lack of understanding of game mechanics. The guardian used wor when it wasn’t useful or put it at wrong places. They always aggro’d mobs that were avoidable.

This is quite sad for me because I believe that all the PvE experience in the game trains you towards using the right skills and learning the tells, from all the champions, to hearts that make you use special skills, learning when to dodge, block or even reflect.

I’ll keep pugging with my <1K AP warr on NA and try to see how groups like this work. My research will focus on how people perceive other as being experienced. Wish me good luck.

As a self-entitled fun police, I declare that you are posting in the wrong place, Sam. You are cutting off the trail of my fun discussion. You’re ruining the topic and my immersion. Please, everyone, get back to why ‘zerker only’ LFG is bad. This horse is still twitching.

Max Lexandre.6279:

Dalanor.5387:

I wanted some fancy insulting, but i have a serious question instead.
Why you favour your own build instead of the accepted meta builds? Including berserker gear ofc.

Because the game is fun when we have several builds, and we actually PLAY the game, not fast-run towards all content and then complain this game do not have enough content. O.o

There are diffrent playstiles. Tanky builds work well with other tanky builds.
But a tanky build will not help a zerker gruop.
A “dead” zerker will not help a tanky party.

The only logical solution is to look out for people who enjoy the same playstile like u.

Elitism is not a problem, the problem is that people can´t even unterstand a single sentence posted in the lfg tool.

It´s the same like a zerker is joining a “chilled run, heal/tanky people welcome” party.
Probably they will kick him/her, just because they want to use another playstile.

Iris Ng.9845:

As a self-entitled fun police, I declare that you are posting in the wrong place, Sam. You are cutting off the trail of my fun discussion. You’re ruining the topic and my immersion. Please, everyone, get back to why ‘zerker only’ LFG is bad. This horse is still twitching.

OMG I get kicked so often from exp groups because I have low AP ! I bet these filthy exp elitists that wear zerker builds (intentional mistake) also recruit only based on AP. Why can’t they understand that my condinec has so much group exp ? I even do Worldboss train everyday. And I know all the Queensdale champs by heart !

Happy ?

gw2esp is more than a dps meter. I can usually tell what an ele is running based on how they do on the burrows.

If they cast bow4 and just walk away zerkers. they hang around- not zerkers.
#coolelesdontlookatburrows

Enaretos.8079:

It’s not only about gear, traits, weps and wanting to speed-run after having trained/watched videos. They still failed due to lack of understanding of game mechanics. The guardian used wor when it wasn’t useful or put it at wrong places. They always aggro’d mobs that were avoidable.

This is quite sad for me because I believe that all the PvE experience in the game trains you towards using the right skills and learning the tells, from all the champions, to hearts that make you use special skills, learning when to dodge, block or even reflect.

I’ll keep pugging with my <1K AP warr on NA and try to see how groups like this work. My research will focus on how people perceive other as being experienced. Wish me good luck.

I feel sorry for you, and somehow agree with everything you said. However, while the game should indeed teach you how to progress in your understanding of the mechanics, your interacting regularly with other players can cloud your judgment and alter your understanding of this mechanics. It requires quite some experience to distance oneself from a group-thinking attitude, and start seeing things for what they are, and not what they’re supposed to be.

By the way, I apologize for suggesting LFG messages. I forgot that most people don’t even read them

Elegie.3620:

I forgot that most people don’t even read them

So true… so true…

DonQuack.9025:

gw2esp is more than a dps meter. I can usually tell what an ele is running based on how they do on the burrows.

If they cast bow4 and just walk away zerkers. they hang around- not zerkers.
#coolelesdontlookatburrows

alot dmg multiplier build + fullsoldier = fast burrows (and dps of course)
less dmg multiplier build + fullzerk = slow burrows. (and low dps, even vs critable enemys)

So it won´t help u.

Builds are increasing dps more then gear.

Norjena.5172:

alot dmg multiplier build + fullsoldier = fast burrows (and dps of course)
less dmg multiplier build + fullzerk = slow burrows. (and low dps, even vs critable enemys)

So it won´t help u.

Builds are increasing dps more then gear.

soldier- I will see your hp is too high.
also
#coolelesdontlookatburrows

Friendly forum bug, this is the fourth time in a row you blank our pages, can’t you just RIP and let us go?

ArenaNet

No.

Translation of the Thread Suggestion: I want the convenience of using the LFG tool to party for dungeons any time I want. Of course, I’m completely ignoring the fact that people who want something other than what I want can’t guarantee they’ll be able to PuG with people who want the same thing they do even if they post their group requirements.

Azreell.1568:

hendo.1940:

Azreell.1568:

snip

I bet 10.000 gold that I’d figure out if you wear berserker gear or celestial in a dungeon run.

Ill bet you a realistic gold amount.

I bet you 1k you wouldn’t have a clue.

Oooooo. Pls let this happen. Twitch, Youtube, Screenshots, everything.

…. This just got real real fast.

Wanna bet on who’ll win the bet?

Kaiser.8504:

Wanna bet on who’ll win the bet?

10 gold hendo wins

10 gold that one side babies out

Azreell.1568:

hendo.1940:

Alright, 1.000 gold to me if I can tell wether you use celestial or berserker armor, 1.000 gold to you if I can’t. EU or NA servers? I’m totally up for a run.

Edit: You’re sadly offline.

NA.

I will be online this evening – at work atm. Look me up I will always have fraps running so you know its legit.

Just to clarify – its 1k aka 1000. not 1.000 which is 1 gold.

Hang on a sec though. Hendo has a 50/50 chance of being right from the get-go. How can we tell if Hendo knows for SURE or isn’t just guessing?

You really going to risk 1k gold on at minimum 50/50 chance?

Edit: I propose you do two runs, one with Zerker set, one with Celestial set. Hendo has to guess after the end of the two runs.

Colesy will do it. It’ll be awesome. I’m so excited. I feel like this is a playground fight. I’ll be cheering the whole time.

Has anyone seen frifox?

No offence Azreell, but I don’t think you know who you’re betting against. Oh well…. I guess I’ll be asking colsey for a loan tomorrow.

IvanTheGrey.2941:

No offence Azreell, but I don’t think you know who you’re betting against. Oh well…. I guess I’ll be asking colsey for a loan tomorrow.

Oh boy maybe I’ll be getting chaos gun!

Hehehe go colesy!

Colesy, my birthday is coming up. And I want The Legend. Please make it happen!