Guild Wars 2

xallever.1874:

Azreell.1568:

I never once said I hate zerker – just to clarify.

Famous last post.

Famous last post indeed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/THANK-YOU-AN/

Do you think the name of this OP is just a silly coincidence or is something fishy going on

Plot twist: Azreel is also hendo/Dub/colesy

HAHAHA that would be gold

Max Lexandre.6279:

That would be possible, but when something goes wrong when doing the dungeon, it’s blame the “non zerker” phase as the boss didn’t died fast enough and we wiped.
The elitism on this game it’s only growing and only damaging the community itself, being very un-friendly for new players.…

I’m sorry, but it is not elitism, it is just a) reading the LFG post, and b) understanding how GW2 works. Usually if a problem starts in PUGs, it is because the boss didn’t die fast enough, and that’s because DPS wasn’t high enough. That is why when people want smooth and fast runs, they write “zerk only”. If you don’t agree, don’t join them. If you want to play something more suitable to say a PVT build, go to WvW.

Again, it isn’t elitism, it is just adapting to requirements of different game modes.

The friendly thing to new players is to teach them how to play the game in the best possible way for everyone – and that is often telling them to ’zerk up.

hedix.1986:

Max Lexandre.6279:

That would be possible, but when something goes wrong when doing the dungeon, it’s blame the “non zerker” phase as the boss didn’t died fast enough and we wiped.
The elitism on this game it’s only growing and only damaging the community itself, being very un-friendly for new players.…

I’m sorry, but it is not elitism, it is just a) reading the LFG post, and b) understanding how GW2 works. Usually if a problem starts in PUGs, it is because the boss didn’t die fast enough, and that’s because DPS wasn’t high enough. That is why when people want smooth and fast runs, they write “zerk only”. If you don’t agree, don’t join them. If you want to play something more suitable to say a PVT build, go to WvW.

Again, it isn’t elitism, it is just adapting to requirements of different game modes.

The friendly thing to new players is to teach them how to play the game in the best possible way for everyone – and that is often telling them to ’zerk up.

Sometime ya. When its about good player that want to run full zerker. But a lot of people out there don’t know what they are talking about. They hear full zerker, full zerker, they change their build and think that they are soo good. They use do a certain strategy in dungeon, but they don’t understand everything that need to be done so that the stack work. They go on their own way, brining people in a run that they will screw up without knowing it and then blame it on the other. Because it can be them, they have zerker gear and they do as usual and its suppose to work. So they simply put the blame on the others.

Exemple : Someone who don’t let the Agent Spire agro the champion Wolf first so he make the group wipe. And then blame everyone about it.

VideoGamermike.5813:

I angry!

Lucas.9157:

Plot twist: Azreel is also hendo/Dub/colesy

Oh my god. That would be a dubble-merge.

The OP wrote something along the lines of, its not fair that I get kicked from groups for not being zerker. You joined their party, so you read the description and knew what they wanted. People can choose how they play and the majority play zerker because its the best. If you don’t want to join standard zerker groups, join a nonstandard casual group by making your own LFG saying “P1 no gear req all welcome”. You can play how you want by making your own parties and not joining others’ parties.

I was looking forward to the video

VideoGamermike.5813:

Optimal by whos standards?! by what scale?! I have see NOTHING but damage per second, and time taken. That is not you examine something! I angry because I’ve had to sit here and read people saying how ‘greater’ berkserker rushes are and how greta stacking is because it works for them, WOOP-DE-DO, it does not make your ideas any better than someone else.

Ok, let’s ignore the argument for a bit ans ask this simple question. By what standard do you and half this forum define ‘efficient’, by what standard do you define somethings worth. If your answer is time and damage per second as the only candidates, you aren’t an expert, your a fool. Actions and strategy are not that simple, you cannot digress something as worthless because of a single statistic. I can argue heads over tails about why this spamming DPS is not efficient, it puts way too much into risk, and way too much into reaction time. Stack is not a strong tactic if it’s used the way I’ve been seeing, its a desperate gambit, and I am not talking about Ashalon Catacombs either.
If you guys want to say ‘I think a sword works here because of X," fine. But me choosing that idea to be worthless and a waste of everyone’s time and entertainment, is not wrong, its not worse, its not better, its not perfect, no different from yours. Stop trying to pretend everyone here is an expert when the only things I have been told is DPS, DPS, and DPS.

Wow, you’re one mad person. Berserker is the most efficient, because it kills fastest and game mechanics are so lame that only damage matters. Doesn’t mean other gear is not “efficient” or can’t be play with, but they are inferior. Why? Because if you’re good enough to survive in berserker gear, there is no reason to wear other gear that would lower your damage. You can wear it if you want, no one cares, until you come into party that has clearly stated all zerk requirement, but you choose to ignore it and that’s when kicks start falling.
For some reason a lot of “non zerkers” think that their way of playing is right and only acceptable. Why is that? Why do you think your way is the right way? We provided all the reasons why zerk is superior, where are your reasons and explanations on why other gear is better? I don’t see any, you just keep crying and hating.
And btw, I’m running dungeons everyday and I haven’t seen kicking and zerker hating on non zerkers and blaming them for failing etc., like some of you are trying to say here. Looks like people are just making things up how bad groups are and giving fake examples how they were kicked. I can’t remember when was the last time someone kicked a pugged in regular lfg group for not having all zerk gear.
And also most of the groups doesn’t have any requirements whatsoever.

P.S. Oh and another thing, because I see a lot of people mentioning it. Being zerker doesn’t have to do anything with stacking, skipping mobs etc. You don’t have to be zerker to be able to skip mobs. So don’t talk kitten like that anymore. I’ve seen people in clerics skipping cof bridge too, omfg, traitors!!!
Skipping mobs is not zerk specific, people are skipping mobs because they don’t give any rewards to be worth killing them or because they want to finish dungeon asap, not because they wear zerk gear, lmao. Some people and their logic …

HOT kitten this is still going?

And serial, thanks for a nice itemized argument period! Haven’t done this in a while.

1) Lets begin with your comments to efficiency as this is an important subject. As in it needs to die right here and now. Games are not about efficiency, games aren’t about how fast you can beat something and how little effort you can do it with. The people who beta howling king in 12 seconds(or without getting touched on the reverse end), pride to you….but those who think that is a good idea to -force- people to do, need to learn what a game is. People in games -want- to struggle, we WANT to be challenged reasonably, that why people defend dungeon difficulty in the first place, we all -want- inefficiency. I still have my gripes at AC dungeon, but I can’t regret going there. The fact is we all play for different reasons and want to put our effort in for different things, you wanna berserker rush, fine, but don’t get angry or say such really hurtful and mean things just because people like me don’t want to be Pete from Darths and Droids. Not all of us judge our fun by how fast and hard we can win.

2) Yes, if a party asks for pure berserkers, they have the right to ban for it. but that in itself is foolish, sure a few people might have legit reasons, but when everyone their brother is demanding nothing but lvl 80 berserkers, you have a problem. The point of this thread as I saw it was not to bash berserker building, but to bash those who do it purely because they want speed and DPS, and get angry when people don’t follow their personal expectations and likes.

3) Yes, “non zerkers” have the right to play without being beserker builds. You’re way is superior only in DPS. Not everyone wants to do that. I am not the steel Beowulf, I will not run on a “all-in” style, some of my character might do it, I know a fictional character(kyosuke nambu) who has a made military style out of picking the best moment and berserker rushing the heck out of that moment. But the ones I have now, are a duelist(precisions/toughness/shatter), and a protector(vitality/healing), are not. Thats not some kind of ‘wrong’ thing because it doesn’t match up to the DPS alone. There are hundreds of great builds to make bosses look like chumps, and like the article I was linked said, it’s a joy to find them, to struggle and work to find those new ways of play. But insulting other because they want something different than charging berserker, is not an act of professionalism, its an act of malice and hatred.

The fact is, there is no justification for “you used ranged attacks and aren’t a berserker, your a waste a space”(this has been said both on and off the forums.) that’s cruel and toxic. You want toxic environment, point to those kinds of comments.

4) You are correct, skipping is not a part of this. But stack sure as heck is. Not the act of stacking but the reasons behind it. That being the berseker is a root cause of it. No one would stand in the corner of AC if they weren’t confident in killing mrs.spider quickly, without berserkers, that whole idea is nothing. But yah, skipping isnt related here.

(need a double post)
5) Look, my last experience in game had me dueling the ghost eater mono.e.mono because the veteran kept giving out orders like a drill Sergent instead of explaining things. We lost on try 1, 2, 3, and 4, and won on 5, because at the start of four I told everyone what was going on myself(after I figured out every detail of the boss on my own) because the veteran wasn’t explaining anything and just demanding blind orders. Our teamwork improved massively when the orders stopped, and the discussion started. We has greatswords and bow rangers, and still won try 5 very easily, even when we had to light a trap while surviving the boss(me and another guy has a duelist build so high armor.) I think my quote for Gai comes up here.

" There are only two paths you can choose. You can sit quietly and be selected out of this world, or you can adapt and change!"
Gai Tsutsugami (Guilty Crown)

We weren’t able to adapt when we had this single pin-point plan that only one guy understood, we wouldn’t change with the situation, we couldn’t adapt. When eveyrone understood what was going on and we could finally use tactics and critical thinking, our team flourished. I even learned a new way to tank with my duelist.

Now to the final point. The fact is, we lost because this so called veteran kept making demands of eveyrone to do the same thing he had done over and over. Instead of working with the building and finding new an interesting ways to fight with everything he had, he kept pushing everyone to fight and run in the exact same path he had done everytime, getting angry when people(mostly me) questioned him or flat out refused to follow his orders. My team agreed that the dungeon was much more fun when we DIDN’t follow the stereotypes. You can’t force everyone to your style and insult anything that isn’t based on DPS, we have hundreds ofd builds, and like Gai Tsutsugami, I will adapt and change, not stay glued to a single set of melee berserker ideas that everyone and their brother can’t break away from.
If you want to call yourself professional, you have to learn to accept the strategies to -every- style, regardless of time, and in the realization that games are not about efficiency, they are about fun and self-learning. -you- have to be willing to adapt.

Where exactly are we ‘forcing’ players to use berserker’s? The vast majority of parties advertised on the LFG system (excluding maybe arah, given how hellish it is to PUG and the number of sellers) are not berserker’s only. Seriously, there are a ton of groups who will take you, and even if there aren’t any, you can still make your own. You can even advertise for no stacking/skipping. It isn’t rocket science. Some players enjoy doing content fast, some don’t— no one side is oppressing the other, stop trying to make out as if they are.

As a short responce to sins before I get back to some writing.
I agree that many people aren’t like that, my post is to the people who -are-. I did enjoy my dungeon run(s), and I have no issues with people playing berserker. However my issue is with the insults, the ‘this isn’t viable because it’s not melee berserker’ and the entire forum judging quality and saying some very mean things about builds(GS mesmer is ‘a waste of space’ said two different posters, and necromancer is ‘just selfish’ to even play)simply because they don’t match some perceived DPS.
I won’t get into those argument, but my words are not to the entire community that is quite good, but to those who don’t understand that and DO try to force berserker melee down everything throats.

VideoGamermike.5813:

(GS mesmer is ‘a waste of space’ said two different posters, and necromancer is ‘just selfish’ to even play)simply because they don’t match some perceived DPS.

lol wut

Didn’t you hear? GS mesmer is the new meta, and you are a mean and hurtful person if you think otherwise.

Anyone who says other specs aren’t viable is flat out wrong. Take the cleric’s no-dodge arah video that gets linked all the time here as example. Anyone who says other compositions than the berserker’s meta are optimal are equally wrong, unless they care to show some proof in the form of math/videos.

There will always be people who look down on certain builds, and this is evident in all game modes. The reason is usually because these builds significantly underperform, or because of certain skills being misused by a large percentage of the community. People who say ‘build x sucks’ certainly aren’t helping, but please at least think when someone offers reasons to why a build is suboptimal and suggests alternatives. Remember that you are not the only player on your team, and when playing with randoms you may find players who are unsatisfied by your play style— and that is perfectly within their rights.

Also it isn’t our fault that ANet left out almost all forms of group support on necromancers. Sorry, but they do not stand up to other professions in that respect. Complain about it on the Necromancer or Profession Balance forums if you like.

Consider this. Zerk sword mes in melee range, he dies. Next run the same mes swaps to gs and ranges the whole fight – survives. Does that mean ranging is better than meleeing because dead dps is zero dps? Nope.

The reason I shove “zerk up and melee” everyone’s throats because that’s how you get better. You will die once, twice, and maybe more but eventually you will learn what’s causing you to die and adapt. You will start noticing that maybe dodging, evading, or even using a block or two during certain boss animation will allow you to completely avoid that hit and retain 100% of your health. You will also learn that all bosses have a set pattern to their attacks and eventually you will be able to predict when the next one-shot K.O. will come and avoid it without even thinking about it. Next, you’ll realize that using aegis or reflect at a certain time not only will save you but will also save your whole party from that one-shot hit.

Finally, you’ll learn that after you gained such skill you are now able to finish encounters much, MUCH faster and take little to no damage during the whole encounter.

What I’m forcing onto others is a practice that teaches you to become a better player through experience. If you don’t like that then please don’t join “zerks only” parties, make your own.

No fox, thats -not- how you get better. You do not get better by telling people orders or by pushing DPS over all. you get better by identifying the strategy of the people around you and working to adapt a new strategy with each new team you get. Yes, you can dodge many of the enemies attacks and predict them, but even if you do that, you’re missing a key point.
If you finish encounters without taking any damage, or beating them so fast you’re not actual fighting, then you’re not really playing the game anymore. Sure I have nothingf against bersrker parties if thats the idea someone plays under, but its not better or worse based on time, and you don’t get better by pushing a single build that YOU’VE made over and over.
Take the thread of ‘handling’ staff users, even looking at it now I see a lot of people that, instead of identifying different ideas of how to sue the staff and advise those whom have them, a lot of the posters just hated the staff and told everyone how bad it is, demanding that people change any use of the staff guardian. What are you learning there? Pushing people to a -single- ideal is not learning, its not adapt, is stagnation.

edit: and btw sins you ask the kinds of comments I was talking about when I called out some people for pushing a single build as ‘better’ rather than actually adapting…well, case in point above. (no offense intended, thats just how im reading that post)

VideoGamermike.5813:

t.
If you finish encounters without taking any damage, or beating them so fast you’re not actual fighting, then you’re not really playing the game anymore.

Stahp pls! stahp.

“Take the thread of ‘handling’ staff users, even looking at it now I see a lot of people that, instead of identifying different ideas of how to sue the staff and advise those whom have them, a lot of the posters just hated the staff and told everyone how bad it is, demanding that people change any use of the staff guardian. What are you learning there? Pushing people to a -single- ideal is not learning, its not adapt, is stagnation.”

Im pretty sure people have suggested when staffs should be used. Even suggested that If you “must” carry one to not use it as a primary damage dealing weapon.

Mike you are just … i don’t even know what to say now. Visit a doctor please.

If you finish the encounter without taking any damage while being a glass cannon then you have mastered the encounter. Be proud.

Strategy comes after you learn the encounter, not before. Strategy revolving around terribad playstyle and lack of knowledge is just that, terribad. This how those record speedruns are born, people have mastered every encounter in the dungeon and came up with a strategy/builds/partycomp that allows them to complete the path in shortest amount of time.

This argument has been so long discussed I’m afraid no comment is necessary.

I once had your same opinion but in the meanwhile:

1 berserker have been nerfed, some build more than other.
2 Anet already saied that nerfed was a “starting act” in order to allow and increase build diversity.
3 More people from a couple of month ago are asking in lfg only for player (not a must be berserker research).

So no meaning of this tread anymore. If you want to play your own build, find a party that like this concept or edit your own lfg.

TIL I actually haven’t been playing GW2 all along.

But seriously. If a majority of players are saying a build is bad/unwanted for certain content, there’s usually a reason. I don’t care if you run your all-staff guard/necro or bearbow ranger in dungeons. Just don’t run them in my parties, and respect the wishes of the players whose parties you do run them in. You are not the only player in a group.

frifox.5283:

If you finish the encounter without taking any damage while being a glass cannon then you have mastered the encounter. Be proud.

Strategy comes after you learn the encounter, not before. Strategy revolving around terribad playstyle and lack of knowledge is just that, terribad. This how those record speedruns are born, people have mastered every encounter in the dungeon and came up with a strategy/builds/partycomp that allows them to complete the path in shortest amount of time.

Do I have to bang my head on the wall AGAIN? You are not aiding your case, your defining skill and quality purely by speed and damage. That isn’t how that works. If you persoanlly think that, fine, but it doesnt make you any better or me any worse. Mastery and speed are not the same while playing a videogame. If you care about time, fine, but stop presenting time and DPS as the only means to judge quality, how many time need I say it?
But hey, if you can call sitting in a corner stacking your own steam so enemies can hit you with a single area attack as ‘mastery’ build on intelligent play, then by all means get yourself killed in games that make you think(arc rise fantasia.)

edit: No sins, thats not any correct way of thinking. Yes there will on occasion be those with a specific goal in mind, but there is no reasons(that I’ve seen or anyones bothered to defend) that isnt ‘it has lower DPS’. Thats not a viable argument on it’s own, and the majority saying something has no bearing on an argument or on facts. And the ‘your not the only player’ goes in reverse, why should I sit there and contend myself to other peoples ideals?
I’m not saying those parties don’t have a reason, but I can argue that doing it purely on the basis of ‘I think it’s best’ is just immature.

runeblade.7514:

If you don’t want to play Zerkers then don’t play with zerker only parties.

/thread

Arcade Fire.4895:

runeblade.7514:

If you don’t want to play Zerkers then don’t play with zerker only parties.

/thread

No, not thread. The argument now if the ethicacy of those parties. For very specific runs that need a single individual fair enough, but when you’re doing it purely because you just wanna run the same speedrun over and over as defined by someone else, thats not ok, and the fact that half the parties out there at are all ‘lvl 80 Zerks only’(three dungeons later, same situation), there is a problem.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Arcade Fire.4895:

runeblade.7514:

If you don’t want to play Zerkers then don’t play with zerker only parties.

/thread

No, not thread. The argument now if the ethicacy of those parties. For very specific runs that need a single individual fair enough, but when you’re doing it purely because you just wanna run the same speedrun over and over as defined by someone else, thats not ok, and the fact that half the parties out there at are all ‘lvl 80 Zerks only’(three dungeons later, same situation), there is a problem.

So who are you to say what’s unethical or not lol?

They wanna play with berserkers, so let them be.

You want to play with whatever you want and no one is stopping you or telling you to do otherwise.

It’s just a game and stop stressing over what people are doing as long as they aren’t being offensive to you or anyone.

We’re all just playing with our own time so its just best to mind your own business if no one is offending you personally.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Do I have to bang my head on the wall AGAIN? You are not aiding your case, your defining skill and quality purely by speed and damage. That isn’t how that works. If you persoanlly think that, fine, but it doesnt make you any better or me any worse. Mastery and speed are not the same while playing a videogame.

Feel free to bang your head as much as you want until you understand. Speed and skill are not same thing yet speed is a product of skill. You are highly mistaken by assuming that DPS is the only thing that matters. An unskilled zerk will most likely be laying dead on the floor contributing exactly 0 dps. Given enough time he will become what we call a skilled player because he will learn how to stay alive, especially from the time he spent dead observing his zerk teammates finishing the boss. Player wearing PVT/Clerics will facetank everything and call it good enough because he doesn’t even have to try to finish the dragged out slow encounter.

frifox.5283:

VideoGamermike.5813:

Do I have to bang my head on the wall AGAIN? You are not aiding your case, your defining skill and quality purely by speed and damage. That isn’t how that works. If you persoanlly think that, fine, but it doesnt make you any better or me any worse. Mastery and speed are not the same while playing a videogame.

Feel free to bang your head as much as you want until you understand. Speed and skill are not same thing yet speed is a product of skill. You are highly mistaken by assuming that DPS is the only thing that matters. An unskilled zerk will most likely be laying dead on the floor contributing exactly 0 dps. Given enough time he will become what we call a skilled player because he will learn how to stay alive, especially from the time he spent dead observing his zerk teammates finishing the boss. Player wearing PVT/Clerics will facetank everything and call it good enough because he doesn’t even have to try to finish the dragged out slow encounter.

I’m excitedly waiting for a similar response from him, with reasons and stuff, instead of bashing and insulting the dungeon community here.

I see you didn’t read much about my post.

VideoGamermike.5813:

1) Lets begin with your comments to efficiency as this is an important subject. As in it needs to die right here and now. Games are not about efficiency, games aren’t about how fast you can beat something and how little effort you can do it with. The people who beta howling king in 12 seconds(or without getting touched on the reverse end), pride to you….but those who think that is a good idea to -force- people to do, need to learn what a game is. People in games -want- to struggle, we WANT to be challenged reasonably, that why people defend dungeon difficulty in the first place, we all -want- inefficiency. I still have my gripes at AC dungeon, but I can’t regret going there. The fact is we all play for different reasons and want to put our effort in for different things, you wanna berserker rush, fine, but don’t get angry or say such really hurtful and mean things just because people like me don’t want to be Pete from Darths and Droids. Not all of us judge our fun by how fast and hard we can win.

That’s just your opinion, man… If the fastest way to kill stuff is not your thing, then it doesn’t mean other people don’t enjoy it. I enjoy killing stuff faster more than slower.
I enjoy more bursting down boss in 10 second rather than fighting him 20 min. Because there is a limit of how long one fight should take before it gets boring for me. If I’m fighting some lame boss 20 min and the whole fight is the same, rinse and repeat, then that’s hella boring.
Talking about a challenge? Let’s take last bos in TA for exmaple. You enjoy afk-AA-ing that tree for 5-10 min? (I asume you go range there) That is challenging for you?
More challenging is if you go melee, it’s a lot more chance you’ll die if you don’t dodge his attacks. And it’s faster, so it’s not THAT boring.
Let’s go to troll in hotw. You enjoy sitting on a roof and afk range troll, while he can’t reach you there, because he’s stupid? That’s challenging and fun?
I’m sorry, but i don’t agree with your definiotion of fun. And accept it, that some people actually enjoy speedrunning. That can actually be challenging, if you’re trying to improve yourself and be better every time and maybe beat someone’s record.
People find fun in different stuff. Some enjoy different games, different playstyle, different genres etc.. Sorry, but please don’t asume that zerkers can’t have fun.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Yes, if a party asks for pure berserkers, they have the right to ban for it. but that in itself is foolish, sure a few people might have legit reasons, but when everyone their brother is demanding nothing but lvl 80 berserkers, you have a problem. The point of this thread as I saw it was not to bash berserker building, but to bash those who do it purely because they want speed and DPS, and get angry when people don’t follow their personal expectations and likes.

Again, sorry it’s your opinion. Same as it’s mine and others that zerk is best option and we like to play it. If you can’t respect that, i’m sorry, i don’t know why you even expect to be carried if LFG is cleary saying “zerk only”. Why not get angry? I get angry too, because people are ignoring descriptions. They read it and they choose to ignore it. That is wrong. Sorry, complain to ANet, the game mechanics are allowing full zerk team to be the best composition. And that’s why most of people use it. Are you complaining about how many fans lady gaga has? Maybe you don’t like her, I don’t either, but I don’t care, I won’t say, “hey her music is wrong and no one should listen to her.” I have different taste in music, so I’ll just not listen to her.

VideoGamermike.5813:

3) Yes, “non zerkers” have the right to play without being beserker builds. You’re way is superior only in DPS. Not everyone wants to do that. …..

Again, opinions. Not everyone likes zerker and not everyone likes “non zerker”. So let us each other play what we want, hm?

VideoGamermike.5813:

4) You are correct, skipping is not a part of this. But stack sure as heck is. Not the act of stacking but the reasons behind it. That being the berseker is a root cause of it. No one would stand in the corner of AC if they weren’t confident in killing mrs.spider quickly, without berserkers, that whole idea is nothing. But yah, skipping isnt related here.

In could write a long post about this too, but I’m getting lazy It’s a again a matter of opinion and taste. I can understand if stacking is not fun. That’s why you have LFG or guild, Make your own groups.

Also, like someone said, no one is forcing you to play zerker. I have friends in game that doesn’t play zerker and they don’t feel forced into anything and they have no problem finding groups that they can enjoy playing with. Even I play with them sometimes.

VideoGamermike.5813:

2) Yes, if a party asks for pure berserkers, they have the right to ban for it. but that in itself is foolish, sure a few people might have legit reasons, but when everyone their brother is demanding nothing but lvl 80 berserkers, you have a problem. The point of this thread as I saw it was not to bash berserker building, but to bash those who do it purely because they want speed and DPS, and get angry when people don’t follow their personal expectations and likes.

GW2 is a team game. Teams have expectations. If you can’t meet them then don’t join. No point in complaining. It isn’t a problem. If a sports team wants a point guard that doesn’t specifically X, Y, and Z and a person doesn’t meet that. It isn’t a problem. It is just the fact that the team wants that to be successful and if you don’t meet it then you can’t join. These aren’t personal expectations. These are expectations of what you need to do to contribute to said group. If you don’t meet them then they (the team) feels you won’t contribute. Nothing wrong with that. If you feel that is wrong then prove concretely why factor W is important which you haven’t done. Everything that you have said is either theoretical or philosophical which means nothing. Since on the other side things have been proven from videos to analysis. DPS isn’t all about damage. Look at the builds they have some of the highest support and defensive capabilities while still doing high DPS compared to other builds.

VideoGamermike.5813:

3) Yes, “non zerkers” have the right to play without being beserker builds. You’re way is superior only in DPS. Not everyone wants to do that. I am not the steel Beowulf, I will not run on a “all-in” style, some of my character might do it, I know a fictional character(kyosuke nambu) who has a made military style out of picking the best moment and berserker rushing the heck out of that moment. But the ones I have now, are a duelist(precisions/toughness/shatter), and a protector(vitality/healing), are not. Thats not some kind of ‘wrong’ thing because it doesn’t match up to the DPS alone. There are hundreds of great builds to make bosses look like chumps, and like the article I was linked said, it’s a joy to find them, to struggle and work to find those new ways of play. But insulting other because they want something different than charging berserker, is not an act of professionalism, its an act of malice and hatred.

The fact is, there is no justification for “you used ranged attacks and aren’t a berserker, your a waste a space”(this has been said both on and off the forums.) that’s cruel and toxic. You want toxic environment, point to those kinds of comments.

DPS builds for PvE have some of the highest support and defense attributes compared to many other builds that “non berserker” builds use. Some builds and roles are just subpar in specific game types. It is just the way it is. You cannot expect certain play styles, builds, or roles will fit in every game mode.

There are justifications for not wanting someone ranging for example. GW2 is a team game. Anet has added more team aspects since the game launch over a year ago. Guild Missions, harder world bosses are examples of that (Tequ, Wurm). The only justification for using something subpar is to “play how you want” which I find is extremely toxic. It should be doing what is best for your team even if that isn’t what you 100% want. This is a team game and everything is expect to contribute and be a team player. Certain things are good and certain things aren’t. No point in being delusional about them. Range attacking a boss and then pulling agro from your group making them reposition to engage or endangering them (Lupi). Ranging and adding nothing to support allies. Single target ranging when AoE is needed.

VideoGamermike.5813:

4) You are correct, skipping is not a part of this. But stack sure as heck is. Not the act of stacking but the reasons behind it. That being the berseker is a root cause of it. No one would stand in the corner of AC if they weren’t confident in killing mrs.spider quickly, without berserkers, that whole idea is nothing. But yah, skipping isnt related here.

People would still stack regardless of berserker or not. Stacking exist in other games since that is what melee has to do. On top of that buffs are typically not map wide therefore stacking helps to manage buffs since you know for sure your teammates will get it. Stacking can also help your group reduce their damage taken since walls or corners can block shots for you. Think trees and other structures and what happens if a ranger tries to hit you when you are behind one.

LoS is hax! If you dont take all the damage you arent enjoying the game.

By that definition, in the following video I’m enjoying the living kitten out of this game:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1VrGgB2wA

XD

How do I get to such euphoric heights? Teach me!

Anyone ever notice the zerk “haters” rarely ever post a video of them owning things?
Its the “elites” and such who i see doing the no dodge cleric stuff. its almost as if they are hiding something..

frifox.5283:

By that definition, in the following video I’m enjoying the living kitten out of this game:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1VrGgB2wA

XD

Obviously a hacker, report him!

DonQuack.9025:

How do I get to such euphoric heights? Teach me!

Anyone ever notice the zerk “haters” rarely ever post a video of them owning things?
Its the “elites” and such who i see doing the no dodge cleric stuff. its almost as if they are hiding something..

At least they provide entertaining material and discussion in the forums.
But honestly, with these arguments do you think these players are able to figure out how tanky builds work or even make a party with likeminded people that have actual synergy? C’mon, don’t be so naive! =]

Dalanor.5387:

frifox.5283:

By that definition, in the following video I’m enjoying the living kitten out of this game:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1VrGgB2wA

XD

Obviously a hacker, report him!

hax!, the axe isn’t even physically touching alpha

/report range hack

Izaya.2906:

VideoGamermike.5813:

Arcade Fire.4895:

runeblade.7514:

If you don’t want to play Zerkers then don’t play with zerker only parties.

/thread

No, not thread. The argument now if the ethicacy of those parties. For very specific runs that need a single individual fair enough, but when you’re doing it purely because you just wanna run the same speedrun over and over as defined by someone else, thats not ok, and the fact that half the parties out there at are all ‘lvl 80 Zerks only’(three dungeons later, same situation), there is a problem.

So who are you to say what’s unethical or not lol?

They wanna play with berserkers, so let them be.

You want to play with whatever you want and no one is stopping you or telling you to do otherwise.

It’s just a game and stop stressing over what people are doing as long as they aren’t being offensive to you or anyone.

We’re all just playing with our own time so its just best to mind your own business if no one is offending you personally.

Seriously. I don’t care to carry people anymore nor do I want to put in 20-30 minutes into a path when I know I can complete it in 5-8 (even less on some dungeons).

No one is forcing you to run with zerk-only groups.

Azreell was online today, I even pm’ed him.
Two seconds later I was blocked and he went offline.

1) @frifox. I have heard nothing but DPS in terms of gear and stat builds, no one(bar a few staff guardian guys, some of which were in pages I passed, sorry) has said anything otherwise. Dodging and predicting are all implicit for all kinds of builds, and there are some excellent ideas for how to run berserker. When I finally get one of those by luck I’ll look into them deeper, for now, all I care to do is point out the huge flaws that I keep seeing over and over and over and over again, purely because of blind expectation. I have nothing against the berseker building, I have issues with how its used, and the ideology that is being used to defend it.

2) @serial. I agree, this whole thing is my opinion, but the reverse holds true as well. Neither of us is right or wrong. My opinion is nor better, nor worse, than yours. and no, I do agree with you on the tree and troll. But, you don’t need berserker gear to do that, nor should be pressured into doing so, which is what a lot of people in the forums are doing.(not to mention the LFGs)

3) @serial(again). I have nothing wrong with people using berserker. I am have issues with people doing speedruns, I have issues when everyone and their brother is doing it and forcing people’s hand. And no, it is -not- the bets build, it has no defensive capabilities and is very easily killed if warmed in any way. It has -zero- defense, do not try to call that the ‘best’ purely because of one variable, DPS.(time is implicit and rather worthless here as aren’t discussing speedruns)

4) ok to be fair my stacking comment was a bit generalistic, but I have seen quite a few people here defend stacking purely for the same one-variable logic here. But yes, out of place and generalized, my fault.

5) @curtokey. I have no issues with people who want a very specific team member to fit their strategy, I have issues with people do it on expectation or impatience. And don’t try to tell me that “lvl 80 only berserker experts” isn’t being impatient.

and did you just say anything theory or philosophy is pointless? Do you know anything about argument? The only math can be done here is DPS and damage taken, which is hardly all that conclusive. When you’re dealing with strategy you tend to work a lot in the category of theory and idea. I’ve seen math -once- on this forum, don’t tell me therory is worthless.

6) @Curtoky. the only thing toxic is saying DPs( a SINGLE variable) makes an entire segment worthless. If you want to argue range is pointless….I don’t even to address the arrogance of that. Range attacks have no support?…what?! What game have you been playing, ‘support’ moved have nothing to with the range of basic attacks. There are certain supports only range can do, just as there are that only melee can do, neither is right ow wrong, my anger is directed at the arrogance that melee is the only way to go. My anger is at being called toxic and worthless for have some level of personal pride and not being bullied into specific builds.

edit: Missed page 6, dalanor, my last dungeon raid went much much better when I worked with my team and made a strategy based on our present skills, not when our so-called veteran was doing but barking orders based on his speedruns.
oh and, as the videos comment, thats because most people(like me) don’t have video editing software. I see a lot of “blind” runs on lots of games that get everyone laughing and working together. I’m sure all of these people would hate speedruns.

hendo.1940:

Azreell was online today, I even pm’ed him.
Two seconds later I was blocked and he went offline.

Make a shame wall. Yesterday.

edit:

Care to share what did you use Mike?

hendo.1940:

Azreell was online today, I even pm’ed him.
Two seconds later I was blocked and he went offline.

That is great, I can’t wait till he starts posting on the forums again.

So you’re mad that players speed clear dungeons? Again, you don’t have to play with these players. If you join an unmarked party where players try to ‘force’ (what does this even mean?) you to play berserker’s, you can ignore them or leave. You can choose who you play with, as can everyone else.

Those players you see searching for ‘exp berserker’s ping gear’? Depending on the dungeon, they’re probably not finishing faster than most of the unmarked posts. The reason you see them is because they do not fill quickly. Why do it then? It’s because they enjoy playing through dungeons quickly with like-minded individuals.

If there’s anything ‘toxic’ here, it’s your irrational hatred of players running content they way they want to— a way that is not affecting you at all.

Edit: changed ‘effecting’ to ‘affecting’

So the 1k gold bet is not going to happen? This makes me (and many other people that were probably going to make gold) sad.

Today seems to be the day of dubble-blocking.
I was joining three parties and found myself to be literally kicked and blocked out of each. One arah path 4 seller who was just waiting at the entrance, two german guys who I and some others even helped at dwayna and of course Azreell.

Ha, at least he’s got enough sense to realise he couldn’t win.

I feel some miscommunication here :/ I think what mike is trying to say is, be nicer to other people that don’t think the same thing as you. Just because they are using an inferior build does not give you the right to say mean things. Be more tactful and thoughtful in your case when presenting your evidence as to why the build you advocate is better than the inferior build.

Edit
tl;dr; Golden rule y’all.

VideoGamermike.5813:

im bad