Guild Wars 2

Culuglas……"get the impression that “everyone” here"…..

you comment above would make the statement below fact
.
“all black dogs bark, therefore all barking dogs are black”

I am sure they are meaningless to some, and some they are not.
That would be the same for me to say, everyone that didn’t get them is throwing a fit and find it unfair.
We know that is not true as been posted by several people that did not get them. Not can I say with certainty that is how everyone that got them feels, since I didn’t speak to everyone.
After reading through your post several pages back, it is clear you have zero data to support your claim. It is all what you feel or want. Understandable I suppose, but it doesn’t make you right. no more than it makes those who disagree with you right.
Ultimately it is Anet choice. And is not for us to decide the perimeters of the word “rewards”
You said you would not go back and play GW, I understand why, it is unfortunate as imho overall it is superior to GW2. but that’s just my opinion. If you are truly an mmo gamer, you really should give it a try.

some of us feel it is justified as GW2 is really just chapter 5 so far.
I feel no amount of trying to reason with you to at least attempt to see the other side will prevail. And honestly the only way you could begin to understand the other side is if you had done the amount of work that is required to get those achievement.
In a way its kinda like those without children trying to tell those with them how to raise them. Unless you have walked the walk then your knowledge is limited to only know what you have read.
People are giving you a hard time because you have only read chapter 5 and want to cast judgment on the whole book.

danielrjones.8759:

some of us feel it is justified as GW2 is really just chapter 5 so far.
I feel no amount of trying to reason with you to at least attempt to see the other side will prevail. And honestly the only way you could begin to understand the other side is if you had done the amount of work that is required to get those achievement.
In a way its kinda like those without children trying to tell those with them how to raise them. Unless you have walked the walk then your knowledge is limited to only know what you have read.
People are giving you a hard time because you have only read chapter 5 and want to cast judgment on the whole book.

^

This really is important for folks to keep in mind. That’s how GW2 was presented to us, as they decided that they could not deliver chapter 5 without a better engine, and gave us GW:EN to help us transition.

GW1 is special to us and to ANet. For me, it was my first MMO. I appreciate how ANet has honored our commitment to them, and I’m sorry some folks are envious of that.

I don’t think ANet should cave to those folks.

I just want to say a few short words about this whole argument… Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah, yakkity schmakity, blah blah, yakkity kakity, schmakity, blah blah…

Berelious.3290:

I just want to say a few short words about this whole argument… Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah, yakkity schmakity, blah blah, yakkity kakity, schmakity, blah blah…

A fine, solid translation.

danielrjones.8759:

We know that is not true as been posted by several people that did not get them. Not can I say with certainty that is how everyone that got them feels, since I didn’t speak to everyone.

I didn’t say this to be true for everyone, just that I am getting the impression, which of course is a purely subjective point of view.

danielrjones.8759:

it doesn’t make you right. no more than it makes those who disagree with you right.

True, and probably there is no absolute right or wrong here.

danielrjones.8759:

Ultimately it is Anet choice. And is not for us to decide the perimeters of the word “rewards”

No, the decision ultimately is Anets choice, but we can suggest alternatives and ask for explanations on past decisions – unfortunately Anet did not comment yet.

danielrjones.8759:

You said you would not go back and play GW, I understand why, it is unfortunate as imho overall it is superior to GW2. but that’s just my opinion. If you are truly an mmo gamer, you really should give it a try.

Like I said, I already tried playing GW1 (prior to GW2 release), but the GW1 interface didn’t appeal to me. To me it just felt sort of outdated by current standards.

danielrjones.8759:

And honestly the only way you could begin to understand the other side is if you had done the amount of work that is required to get those achievement.

I do understand that some regard GW2 just as the 5th GW. On the other hand, isn’t GW2 different enough from GW1 to be a completely separate game?

And I can relate to the work involved, to get those 50/50, many other MMOs have similar deeds involved. But the “work” involved in playing a game they obviously liked should not be overrated in itself alone. And by that I am in no way demeaning their efforts, nor am I asking for them not to get rewards for it or to “take away” earned rewards. I just would like those rewards not affect other aspects of the game.

Sylv.5324:

That’s how GW2 was presented to us, as they decided that they could not deliver chapter 5 without a better engine, and gave us GW:EN to help us transition.

Just on a side note to the engine, in the late 90s there was a game called Ultima Online (some of you might even have played it). In the early 2000s they decided to update the engine from isometric to 3D (which in itself was not the best of decisions, due to other reasons ).
But even though the engine was changed, the existing world remained (new parts were added), the characters remained, and even though you had to buy the update (in addition to monthly fees at the time), it was truly an expansion and continuation of the existing game.

GW2 broke with the existing GW1 world, its existing characters and in comparison feels much more like a new book in a familiar world instead of a new chapter to an existing one.

Curuglas.1847:

Sylv.5324:

That’s how GW2 was presented to us, as they decided that they could not deliver chapter 5 without a better engine, and gave us GW:EN to help us transition.

Just on a side note to the engine, in the late 90s there was a game called Ultima Online (some of you might even have played it). In the early 2000s they decided to update the engine from isometric to 3D (which in itself was not the best of decisions, due to other reasons ).
But even though the engine was changed, the existing world remained (new parts were added), the characters remained, and even though you had to buy the update (in addition to monthly fees at the time), it was truly an expansion and continuation of the existing game.

GW2 broke with the existing GW1 world, its existing characters and in comparison feels much more like a new book in a familiar world instead of a new chapter to an existing one.

It was not just the engine that changed however. It was it went from a MOCORPG to a MMORPG. They took out heros, added more tiers to armor etc… etc… So with what they wanted to do they had to create a new game.

ArenaNet is working on re-balancing the achievements. ArenaNet took a look at the difficulty of obtaining some of the achievements and adjusted the score based upon the difficulty. Who knows WvW achievements may get a points boost. Perhaps to that of equal to HoM possibly more. If you don’t think GWAMM it is difficult look at the following links. Then just think of the grind that may be needed to obtain some of them.

For a idea I would post here for just one of the titles that is perhaps 1/40th of 50 points.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Party_Animal

Snowman Summoners can be obtained at any time for new points towards this title. They can be obtained from the final chest in the Secret Lair of the Snowmen, although getting the max rank of this title would take approximately 1,667 hours if playing in Hard Mode with henchmen, with each run lasting approximately 20 minutes.
…..
It would cost 166,700 Copper Zaishen Coin and 33 Platinum 340 Gold to max this title track via purchased Crates of Fireworks alone.

In Guild Wars 1 Platinum is about as difficult to obtain as gold in Guild Wars 2.(If not sometimes harder due to lack of trading post) A lot of the high valued armor in Guild Wars 1 was worth 75 Platinum. Difficulty to obtain probably equal to that of T3 armor if not harder due to no trading post.

Now that is just 1 Title To just get Max Honor you need 40 Titles total. Each with the same if not more difficulty to obtain.

See the following link for more details on the work required to get HoM rewards.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide_to_earning_Hall_of_Monuments_rewards
http://hom.guildwars2.com/en/#page=main&details=AABAAg1TCUDAAAAAAgTAAIAAACAAAAAAKAUIQAAAAAA
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Eternal_Party_Animal#Title_statues

Great statement and summary of a single title required for HoM progress. Not to mention you had fluctuating merch prices for all materials and not only did Elite Armor take 75k, it took sometimes 10-25k extra in materials. Curuglas won’t read it though. And if he does he’ll find a way to diminish the value of 1 part of getting 50/50 (which isn’t just 50 “achievements” by the way – Curuglas).

anzenketh.3759:

So with what they wanted to do they had to create a new game.

Exactly my point. Thank you.

anzenketh.3759:

ArenaNet is working on re-balancing the achievements. ArenaNet took a look at the difficulty of obtaining some of the achievements and adjusted the score based upon the difficulty.

If they released a complete overhaul instead of just tampering with HoM points alone, all this fuss might have been avoided – yet they didn’t. So I hope they will fix this issue with a better rework soon.

anzenketh.3759:

If you don’t think GWAMM it is difficult look at the following links. Then just think of the grind that may be needed to obtain some of them.

Why do you assume I think this to be either easy or fast?

I just think it belongs to another game and thus should not affect the current one as much as it does now. So if they had to grind this much in preparation to GW2, well, give them a precursor for their troubles, or any other kind of reward that does not mess with this game’s score.

@anzenkenth
You would furthermore be quite dumb to complete the title in this way. Everyone who played GW1 can tell that fireworks (along with drinks and sweets) dropped a lot during week long events, which is where most people got most of their points towards these titles. Not as hard as you make it out to be here.

These points are not exclusive. Anybody can still get these points just by playing GW1.

If you really want the points, then you’d best spend your time getting them instead of crying here. If you don’t want the points, or are simply too lazy to get them, then kindly keep quiet.

No you didn’t say it to be true you implied it. If I said I had the impression someone was lying to me, does that mean I believe him or not believe him.
My fault on that for responding to an implication.
Some people feel you think it is “easy or fast” because you stated they are undeserving of what anet has giving them. as far as the ap. Most people feel you don’t know what your talking about since you haven’t done them.
Yes compared to GW1, GW2 is more advanced.
But as was mentioned, we were informed over and over. that to continue the guild wars product they would have to make a new engine. And because of that they would give us benefits for making the change. People keep saying “completely separate game” for those that say that, they have not played all of GW1, different engine absolutely, different game absolutely not.

Treeline- not everyone waited till the last and until there seemed to be a weekend event at every drop of the hat to get drunk or sweets. Just like ldoa- some got that well before getting titles became a cakewalk.

Achievements are currently a joke, with dailies making up over 60% of all available points.

Quibbling about 500 points is a complete waste of everyone’s time.

The rankings represent nothing but number of days played, and until unachievable time-locked points are removed or minimized this will always be the case.

At least the HoM points are technically obtainable. Yesterday’s daily points will never be available to those who didn’t grind them out.

(Rank 120 on Achievement Leaderboards. Did nothing to deserve such a designation.)

Curuglas.1847:

So if they had to grind this much in preparation to GW2, well, give them a precursor for their troubles

This is the best suggestion in this topic.

Curuglas.1847:

GW2 broke with the existing GW1 world, its existing characters and in comparison feels much more like a new book in a familiar world instead of a new chapter to an existing one.

That is your opinion, but not ANet’s.

Sylv.5324:

Curuglas.1847:

GW2 broke with the existing GW1 world, its existing characters and in comparison feels much more like a new book in a familiar world instead of a new chapter to an existing one.

That is your opinion, but not ANet’s.

Not an opinion, simple fact. Did you play GW1? Do you play the same character in GW2? If you equip something in GW2 on your char, do you have it equipped in GW1, too? If not, then they did break with the existing world and its existing characters. And whether or not it might have been ANet’s intention, it still leaves the feeling of a new book rather than just a new chapter.

Curuglas.1847:

anzenketh.3759:

So with what they wanted to do they had to create a new game.

Exactly my point. Thank you.

anzenketh.3759:

ArenaNet is working on re-balancing the achievements. ArenaNet took a look at the difficulty of obtaining some of the achievements and adjusted the score based upon the difficulty.

If they released a complete overhaul instead of just tampering with HoM points alone, all this fuss might have been avoided – yet they didn’t. So I hope they will fix this issue with a better rework soon.

anzenketh.3759:

If you don’t think GWAMM it is difficult look at the following links. Then just think of the grind that may be needed to obtain some of them.

Why do you assume I think this to be either easy or fast?

I just think it belongs to another game and thus should not affect the current one as much as it does now. So if they had to grind this much in preparation to GW2, well, give them a precursor for their troubles, or any other kind of reward that does not mess with this game’s score.

I am not going to sit here and try to change your mind because it is pointless to do so.

I will however inform you more of where we are kitten from. Also why we are defending our 500 (Or in my case if you looked at my HOM ~250 points so vigorously.

Yes they did do a complete over-hall of the achievement system. It is also not complete. I would suspect further changes. Here is my reasoning for saying so.

DevonCarver.5370:

The titles and achievement point values for WvW play are absolutely out of character with the rest of the game and we will be addressing that. What form that will take specifically I am not entirely sure.

Point 1: However it is because they really wanted to make a new chapter and we could not carry out characters over that they wanted to reward us for our efforts. They choose HoM rewards and Achievement points. They realized that the value of the Achievement points was not in line with the rest of the game and they also meant something now that you got chests out of them so they modified them. Simple as that.

What would you say if all of the sudden they took the WvW titles and achievement point and made them worth more similar to what is in line with the HoM points. Lets say that you don’t play WvW at all nor care to play it because it does not fit your play-style and you feel it should really be a separate game. How would you feel then? I would guess that you would feel about the same.

The simple thing is all the Achievement point system states is “I have spent more time grinding these things then you have” I am probably going to get flamed by the GW1 vets for saying this however. Truthfully. That is all a HoM points says about a Guild Wars 1 player. Achievement Points before were worth not the storage that stored them. To make them worth something they added a reward system to it. Proof of this is they implemented a reward system.

In short nothing in ArenaNet nor a large portion of the player-base think the system is broken. It is working as designed. In fact a lot would argue that it is working better then it was before.

Sadly you fall into the exception to the rule. I understand your frustration and anger. However I don’t think a fix is necessary. Instead channel your anger and frustration to playing the game getting those achievement points that you don’t have(I know you have a few) while being diligent on getting your daily every day. Eventually you will likely catch up to quite a few of those GWAMM. Why? They are too busy enjoying GW1 Still to dedicate the amount of time required to keep the gap.

@Treeline.3865 vary true but that would require a thing called time and grind at a specific time.

danielrjones.8759:

Some people feel you think it is “easy or fast” because you stated they are undeserving of what anet has giving them. as far as the ap. Most people feel you don’t know what your talking about since you haven’t done them.

Still, I think I clarified this in great detail by now, that it’s not the rewards in itself that are in question, but only the type of reward.
And you are right, I don’t know and won’t ever know what it was like for those people to get their titles. I can only assume though, they did this by playing a game they liked anyway, and furthermore I assume they were proud once they accomplished the title and they wore it accordingly in GW1 already.

danielrjones.8759:

People keep saying “completely separate game” for those that say that, they have not played all of GW1, different engine absolutely, different game absolutely not.

I doubt that absolutely.

Your “different game absolutely not” could equally mean “same game absolutely”, which might just be a wish of some GW1 players and might even have been ANets intention, but if it was, I daresay it failed.

Granted, there are similarities, but there are many differences. Apart from the technical difference the engine provides (which, as the engine change within the Ultima Online world showed, is not an absolute necessity) the world is changed as well. No player characters from GW1 exist in GW2 (and vice-versa). The stories told in either game are quite different, although GW2 can benefit from the previous history of course. The games are related after all, but apart from an account linking system hardly the same game at all.

BTW: Did you have to link your accounts in the previous GW1 expansions, or did you just add the new game to your account? I’d say it’s another indicator on how different the games actually are.

Oh boy..

Well, I don’t care about leaderboards personally, and as such, this change doesn’t effect me.

I will say…If I was someone who “competed” on the leaderboards, I’d be pretty kitten ed that people were above me for playing another game.

The HoM skins were reward enough for playing an entirely different game. This seems like overkill and people are rightfully angry.

Like I said though, doesn’t effect me, so sucks for you guys :P

My 2 copper~

I have enjoyed the debate, however I feel we must part ways and agree to disagree.
Yes you have clarified it very well, It’s not what anet thinks is fair, its what you think is fair.
You say its not the rewards, its the type of rewards. indicating the work people but in and are rewarded for, should be to your liking. And if not then a grave error has been made.
On one hand you say GW2 is a completely separate game, but on the other you say yes they share the same history.
Maybe I should rephrase and say “entirely different game, absolutely not”
The operative word in your argument against that is the word “could”
I never said it was the same game but a continuation of the guild wars product,
I looked but could not find the comment by anet, where they used the “new chapter in Guild Wars” reference when talking about developing GW2, so I guess that is moot.
imo you are not very good at grabbing the bull by the horns and dealing with the problem head on, but kiting the bull and saying look I won.
I say that because at no point have you or can you show in writing by anet there has been any wrong doing about this.

Good discussion, I am just not very good at phrasing things to try to get my point across.
I have 6 gw1 accounts, some I linked and some I did not. For various reasons. The reason I had so many was because of a character called Nicholas, we never knew for the first year what he was going to want. And had to save every junk item in the game. And I had various different collections so need the storage. But I did link some together the same way I linked GW2 to them.
I sincerely wish you the best. Dan

danielrjones.8759:

I have enjoyed the debate, however I feel we must part ways and agree to disagree.

As you like. I don’t mind if someone disagrees with my opinion, everyone is entitles to his.

danielrjones.8759:

Yes you have clarified it very well, It’s not what anet thinks is fair, its what you think is fair.

I’d consider it rather crudely summarized, but I have to basically agree, that in my opinion ANet made a bad choice and I would like them to correct it.

danielrjones.8759:

On one hand you say GW2 is a completely separate game, but on the other you say yes they share the same history.

Yes, this is true for a lot of games that have more than one part. Sometimes the existing game is expanded (i.e. Ultima Online, GW1, Diablo 2, Neverwinter Nights), but sometimes an entirely new game is released, which shares a common heritage and sometimes story background (i.e. GW2, Diablo 3, Neverwinter Nights 2).

danielrjones.8759:

I say that because at no point have you or can you show in writing by anet there has been any wrong doing about this.

No, sadly there is nothing by ANet on this topic – yet. I still am waiting for an official statement…

danielrjones.8759:

But I did link some together the same way I linked GW2 to them.

My bad, maybe I was not clear enough on this…

What I meant was, if a GW1 player has one account for Prophecies, could he add the expansions Factions, Nightfall and Eye of the North to the existing account or did he have to create 4 different accounts and then link those accounts to get titles carried over from one game to the next?
If he could just add the expansions to the existing account, then it’s more of an indication of it being the same game, whereas with GW2 you create a new account and link old GW1 accounts to the new one, which gives more of a separate game impression, doesn’t it?

I bought GW1 with the sole intention of gaining the HoM points when GW2 announced the HoM system, i got a dervish up to around level 16 before i just couldn’t handle it anymore, the game was dated compared to the more recent MMO’s, and i just couldn’t play it anymore.

Am i bothered that there are players who have rewards that i don’t? No, they earned them.

The only thing i am concerned about is the fact that these players have been boosted on the leaderboards in a completely different game, for something they did in the old one, that’s not how leaderboards work, and i’ve never heard of another game, be it an FPS, an RPG, an MMO, whatever, to have done this.

These players were granted Titles & Unique skins that players without these HoM achievements could get, so why on earth should they receive a boost on the leaderboards?

Leaderboards in Guild wars 2 should track the achievements done, IN Guild wars 2, not in Guild wars 1.

It seems the only people disagreeing are those who have a good chunk of these achievements and just want that free boost forward.

And to the people saying “Go get those achievements, nothings stopping you.”

Let’s see you try get 50/50 in a now dead game which took many people 5+ years when the game was still alive.

Ok, one more time, then I’m gonna have to call it quits on this as there seems to be no resolve between us.

Btw crudely summarizing things I can do because. I don’t care to beat around the bush or split hairs. I’m of the old way, if it walks like a duck…….

Just want to make sure I understood your last post,
First you say everyone is entitled to their opinions. then you say your opinion is anet made a bad call. and should change it. So is your opinion more valuable than than those who do not think it was a bad call?
For the record, when you start making reference to other games, I honestly just skim over that, imo its comparing apples to oranges. The topic is Guild Wars.

As far as linking all the gw games, its a choice. you can or can not, any and all including gw2 can be linked to the same account. My main gw2 account is linked with same email/ncsoft account as prof/factions/nightfall.
Imo your are really trying to split hairs here to make your argument valid. Funny thing is, when you split a hair, even though its in 2 pieces. its still the same piece of hair.
I would love to see a response on this from anet. In a way I feel we have. But after 8 years of dealing with anet. many, many times, they never post a response but leave their actions as “this is our response” figure it out.

I would seriously liked this question answered. It would help ArenaNet shape future changes to achievement points.

DevonCarver.5370:

The titles and achievement point values for WvW play are absolutely out of character with the rest of the game and we will be addressing that. What form that will take specifically I am not entirely sure.

What would you say if all of the sudden they took the WvW titles and achievement point and made them worth more similar to what is in line with the HoM points. Lets say that you don’t play WvW at all nor care to play it because it does not fit your play-style and you feel it should really be a separate game. How would you feel then? I would guess that you would feel about the same.

There’s always something to complain about.

Achievements are about your personal progress… and there’s nothing stopping you from doing what others did to earn the achievements you’re missing out on.

-It’s when achievements are no longer available is when you should be concerned.

I for one have no problem with it. Other MMOs I’ve played do little to no reward for the vet players that have stuck with the franchise. So for once a game implements this..and people QQ about it?… seriously They’re acheesement points – It’s Not like we get godly stats from the 500 points..( if we get that far 36/50 myself).

Who cares about the achievement points race. Maybe 200 people of the 3 million who bought the game. Arena.net did do nearly enough when linking this game to guild wars 1. HoM is a joke, it has 3 decent skins, a few titles. 500 achievement doesn’t change anything.

remove the 500 points again anet, that is not what was told before, dont kitten your players over.

People are still crying over this?

We GW1 players supported the game before most of you even knew Guild Wars existed, without us, there would be no GW2. Get over it.

take the AP out of it already. give titles weapon skins who cares.

All of you who played GW1 are acting all self righteous because you just want a free advantage and you dont give a darn whether it is fair or unfair. You played gw1 and you had your rewards and fun in GW1 and now it is over. This is a new game. When the same company made another game you cant expect some advantages in the new game just because you played another game of the company. With the same mentality I can say Anet belongs to Ncsoft and I played Aion, an NCsoft game, for 3 years and where is my reward for playing Aion for 3 years loyally? Don’t go all revolting now!! this is not more illogical than what you defend here. For me whether it is Aion or GW1 it doesnt matter, they are both different games and you cant expect to be rewarded in a different game for playing them.
I have now fallen quite a bit at the achievement list even with 10k achievement points all earned in GW2. Even though existence of achievement points of a totally different game in a new game doesnt make sense at all, the previous point amount was still acceptable but 500 points?? Hell no!! I will not try to compete in a race in which some racers start before me. You cant punish people for something they didn’t do by rewarding others and giving them a huge advantage.

Anet should either get those points back to how it used to be or just remove the achievement list and stop making those achievement point hunters feel themselves cheated.

Zafer.2391:

…
You played gw1 and you had your rewards and fun in GW1 and now it is over. This is a new game.

Here’s a little secret: Anet, the makers of GW and GW2 sold their GW expansion partly on the promise on a legacy that would carry over to GW2 (which was made possible, by funds earned in GW.)

So YES: This is a new game – But it has a legacy: Funding and lore comes from something you were obviously not a part of!

Fun fact: Most of us never even knew there was a bloody PvE-achievement ladder-thingy until this topic… Seriously, most people don’t give a rats…

I think it’s good that HoM rewards from Guild Wars award achievement points, skins and pets for Guild Wars 2. It encouraged me to go back and play through the original and despite not being able to jump I’m enjoying all of the lore from questing through the old worlds. It’s fun to see the non-player characters in Guild Wars that were immortalised with their own Armour in Guild Wars 2 (Aiden, Zho, Vatlaaw etc)

I don’t feel to have recived anything without deserving it.
I’m happy that my dedication to the first chapter gave me 500 more AP and, by the way, rewards are obtainables by all people who wants them and aren’t exclusives.
Just play GW2 and take that 500 points in one week and a half or just enjoy the first chapter.

folly dragon.4126:

wouldnt the solution to this be gw2 achievements points = leaderboard then add gw1 heritage achievements from HoM = achievement rewards. problem solved, kittens repaired.

That would be the sane thing to do. But it seems more fun to direct hate at people :/

Oh good merged topics. Once again, GW1 HoM rewards provide no advantage over anyone in GW2 and nobody ASKED for them to reward GW1 players who did the hard / time consuming achievements.

Solution: If the Ap is that important to you buy GW1 and the EOTN … and stop the whining

Is Guild Wars 2 a different game than Guild Wars 1….the answer isn’t that simple.

Try to put yourself in this place. There are people here who played Guild Wars 1 for years. In that game we were RICH. We had the best of everything. The best armor in the game (visually), the best weapons, the rarest minis, the best everlasting tonics, the best titles. We could go anywhere and do anything. This was the game we played.

Then Anet annouced an expansion called Utopia. And Utopia was going to be a Guild Wars 1 expansion. But as Anet discussed their options, they realized a lot of the things they wanted to do couldn’t be done with the old engine. They had all sorts of ideas. They learned all sorts of lessons. And they wanted something better.

So they decided to scrap Utopia and they decided to come out with Guild Wars 2…not because it was a different game. But to update the existing game. I know this because Anet said so.

So they came to us, fans who’d been playing their game loyally for five years and they said, okay guys, we’re not going to expand this game anymore. We know you like it, but we think we can do better.

They asked Guild Wars 1 players, who were rich, who had unlocked every skill, who had vanquished every area of the world to bear with them, while they created something new.

And every long term Guild Wars 1 player had to deal with the concept of starting over. This is what we had. The same gold, the same karma the same inventory space as everyone else who was starting….and this was our expansion…or it replaced it. Because of this game, we didn’t get major updates. Since Guild Wars 2 was annouced, we had a handful of new content releases, many of them okay but nothing to write home about. They all took place in existing zones. They got progressive more meh.

Because we were asked to transfer our allegience (but not our gold or possessions to this game). Anet didn’t want people coming to the game to feel disadvantaged, so they limited the rewards to basically cosmetic items. Pet skins, weapon skins, minipets but no real advantage. In fact, many rangers were disadvantaged because two of the hall of monuments pets were bugged and were weaker than their in world counterparts for most of this game’s lifespan. It was only fixed a couple of months ago.

So here we are, giving up everything we’ve accumulated to play this new game, which replaced our expansion. And it IS a new game…but it’s also our promised expansion because no expansion for the game we were playing was going to come out and no new content is forthcoming either. We could have had two, maybe three expansions in the time that it took this game to come out and many many people would have preferred that.

We all started over and got a bunch of skins. Of the HoM skins, I like a handful of them…and the mini pets and the ranger skins….oh yeah and I got 50 achievement points. That’s it. For all the stuff I was giving up to come here, including expansions and all the stuff I’d accumulated, I got some skins and a few points.

Is this really an issue worth fighting about? Did I gain more or lose more?

Vayne.8563:

Is Guild Wars 2 a different game than Guild Wars 1….the answer isn’t that simple.

Try to put yourself in this place. There are people here who played Guild Wars 1 for years. In that game we were RICH. We had the best of everything. The best armor in the game (visually), the best weapons, the rarest minis, the best everlasting tonics, the best titles. We could go anywhere and do anything. This was the game we played.

Then Anet annouced an expansion called Utopia. And Utopia was going to be a Guild Wars 1 expansion. But as Anet discussed their options, they realized a lot of the things they wanted to do couldn’t be done with the old engine. They had all sorts of ideas. They learned all sorts of lessons. And they wanted something better.

So they decided to scrap Utopia and they decided to come out with Guild Wars 2…not because it was a different game. But to update the existing game. I know this because Anet said so.

So they came to us, fans who’d been playing their game loyally for five years and they said, okay guys, we’re not going to expand this game anymore. We know you like it, but we think we can do better.

They asked Guild Wars 1 players, who were rich, who had unlocked every skill, who had vanquished every area of the world to bear with them, while they created something new.

And every long term Guild Wars 1 player had to deal with the concept of starting over. This is what we had. The same gold, the same karma the same inventory space as everyone else who was starting….and this was our expansion…or it replaced it. Because of this game, we didn’t get major updates. Since Guild Wars 2 was annouced, we had a handful of new content releases, many of them okay but nothing to write home about. They all took place in existing zones. They got progressive more meh.

Because we were asked to transfer our allegience (but not our gold or possessions to this game). Anet didn’t want people coming to the game to feel disadvantaged, so they limited the rewards to basically cosmetic items. Pet skins, weapon skins, minipets but no real advantage. In fact, many rangers were disadvantaged because two of the hall of monuments pets were bugged and were weaker than their in world counterparts for most of this game’s lifespan. It was only fixed a couple of months ago.

So here we are, giving up everything we’ve accumulated to play this new game, which replaced our expansion. And it IS a new game…but it’s also our promised expansion because no expansion for the game we were playing was going to come out and no new content is forthcoming either. We could have had two, maybe three expansions in the time that it took this game to come out and many many people would have preferred that.

We all started over and got a bunch of skins. Of the HoM skins, I like a handful of them…and the mini pets and the ranger skins….oh yeah and I got 50 achievement points. That’s it. For all the stuff I was giving up to come here, including expansions and all the stuff I’d accumulated, I got some skins and a few points.

Is this really an issue worth fighting about? Did I gain more or lose more?

So well said.

*cough cough

Smooth Penguin.5294:

*Ahem

http://www.guildwars.com/products/eyeofthenorth/default.php

Quote directly from the page:
~Forge Your Legacy Now for Guild Wars 2™!

~Your own Hall of Monuments: a personalized trophy chamber where your achievements can become rewards for your Guild Wars 2 characters—only available in Eye of the North

GW1 vets could be given a completely unique and exclusive legendary for all I care. Anything but giving them an unfair advantage in a GW2 exclusive progression system that I will forever be behind them in because I didn’t play GW1, a completely separate game.

Whether I or a GW1 player choose to do dailies/monthlies or not, whether GW2 achievements are changed/removed, eventually evening our scores or something does NOT matter as it was all part of the GW2 game. GW1 exclusive boosters are the problem.

Indeed Lisa. He pretty much summed up why GW2 even came to be. It’s not so much that GW2 is a new game, but a continuation of another, but like each campaign in GW, is a stand alone product. These games are indeed linked. This account name is only this name because of a character in GW. If you were linking accounts from there to here, you had to use it. That is how the legacy worked.

Think I can count on one hand how many MMO’s have even had something even remotely relatable to having a true sequel. Um EQ I guess, Um Lineage. Asheron’s Call. Final Fantasy in name right? That’s about it.

That’s what new players to this universe don’t get. Anet basically handed gw1 players a closer stance to the next chest.

I would say eliminate the achievement portion of the leaderboards, but no one cares about them anyway…probably like one of those ancient laws still in effect because it take more effort to remove than to just let it stand.

I want players to fast forward 2yrs from now.
1. Every player who is playing now is playing then.

A new player comes along. That player will never see the top 100. That player may never see the top 1000. Why? Because you have dailies that give ap and you have temporary content that gives ap. A new player will never be able to(lol) compete.

This is not a competition folks. If it were, there would have to be something like seasons and not having one time events that give ap. There would have to be caps and who got to what first/second/third.

I have said it before. Leaderboards should be about in depth stat tracking to show what kind of player you are. How many times you beat a certain boss(shout out to WoW’s system). Weaponmaster stat tracked. Slayer stat tracked. The FPS Battlefield 2/2142/3 and probably the upcoming 4 each have this sort of thing telling other players what you like to spend your time doing.

What you may or may not be good at yet.

This leaderboard says absolutely nothing. All it does is tell others that you have been around the game. I don’t need to see a player with 11k to tell me they have done some things in GW2. If I cared that much about it, I think 3k would tell me that this player has done a few things.

I’m sure if anet felt this was a competition they would have done things differently. There are no winners here. You don’t get any recognition for being first on the boards. No titles. No in game advantage. You aren’t popular. You aren’t famous. There’s no prize money. You want to be competitive, that’s what pvp is for. Why is this even an issue still?

GW1 players more or less funded GW2.

Nick.6972:

GW1 players more or less funded GW2.

Well we can definitely say that Guild Wars 1 and ArenaNet survived a harsh environment and has been more than successful. I cannot see how someone would say it’s not because of the GW1 fanbase. This was their only game, and was largely successful making plans for GW2 viable.
=)

w0w… reading all this stuff just made me lose 200 achievement points in game.

/facepalm

So true Akari Storm, I have a friend that is a 1000 times better than me, I could only dream to be the player he is and yet I am higher on the leader board than he is because he cbf doing achievements and dislikes PVE .

Achievements in a different game shouldn’t affect the leaderboards in this one regardless of what anyone says. This boost was obviously made so that people who care about their points are forced to buy the dated old GW1 if they want to be competitive here so that A-Net can milk a bit more money out of it.

william dj.6953:

Zafer, dictionary.com should be able to give you the answer you seek. Look up Legacy and sequel. for starters. You sound like your mad because you didn’t get rewards for something you didn’t do. If you would take the time to read anets promise to those who played gw1 then you may come down of your soap box. But some people are incapable of looking past there own nose because doing so, they may see the truth.
If the GW1 players got what they asked for they would have better stats,gear. ect. so get your panties out of a bunch.

and btw, gw1 vets are not self righteous they are just more informed about the guild wars product. Go figure

Never used or needed to use that site and it is obvious you are a frequenter visitor. Second if you have something to defend, do it with your ideas not with insults or else you will be turning this into a flame war when I actually get to your level. And finally, I dont care whether Anet promised you a Porsche for playing GW2 or not, I am just stating what is fair and what is not. Has Anet promised you 500 AP to play GW2? No? Then better shut up before making a kitten out of yourself with all these legacy pebbles. This kind of mentality will know no boundary as Anet can keep feeding those hungry GW1 mouths with all kinds of advantages and you can just hide behind the same words of legacy, sequel, GW1 etc. What we are discussing here is whether it is fair or not. Obviously Anet can still reward GW1 players without actually giving them any advantage over the rest of the community. My statement still stands if anet wants to reward GW1 players with 500 AP then achievement point rank list should be removed as many players seriously race on that list.

PS: If you are actually saying GW1 players should get better stats, gear etc (judging from your ideas, you are one of those bunches), it is pointless to try to have a healthy discussion about 500 AP with you unless you actually decide grow up and get a bit mature and make sense.

Burn.5401:

Achievements in a different game shouldn’t affect the leaderboards in this one regardless of what anyone says. This boost was obviously made so that people who care about their points are forced to buy the dated old GW1 if they want to be competitive here so that A-Net can milk a bit more money out of it.

That is it. I couldn’t actually agree more as there is no other logical reason I can think of and considering Ncsoft has too much of its finger in GW2, it doesnt sound like a remote reason.

Zafer.2391:

What we are discussing here is whether it is fair or not.

The answer should be obvious. No, the leaderboards are not fair. They were never designed to be fair. HoM case is completely irrelevant here, because it doesn’t change the situation even one bit. It’s not the case of some specific achievements having problems – the same general problem affects every one of them.
Of course, it is only a problem if you think achievement points are a competitive measure – because the problem i mentioned lies in the fact that they are not.

Zafer.2391:

snip

Completely fair. See below:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

*Ahem

http://www.guildwars.com/products/eyeofthenorth/default.php

Quote directly from the page:
~Forge Your Legacy Now for Guild Wars 2™!

~Your own Hall of Monuments: a personalized trophy chamber where your achievements can become rewards for your Guild Wars 2 characters—only available in Eye of the North