Guild Wars 2

Bosses and champs are not the same ROFL!

What about the bosses in the labyrinth?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

What the kitten, he is explaining what the Manifesto means, on what idea it was founded. The ideas on what the whole game was based on. The bloody concept.

But well, nothing is harder to see than the things you don’t want to see…

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that Colin wrote the manifesto or was instrumental in writing it. I’m not sure that’s the case. We don’t really know who wrote the manifesto. We know people spoke it, but not who wrote it.

The language of the manifesto is actually pretty clear. It’s saying “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2…we want to change the way people view combat.” Not gear. Combat.

I’m pretty sure that taking once sentence out of context, particularly when another actually defines the type of grind they’re talking about, isn’t the best way to interpret a document.

If a lead developer explains the game, that was promoted by the manifesto, one would expect him to know what the kitten is going on.

You act like the Manifesto was written by some stranger outside of ANet just for the sake of writing it.

We do not want grind that’s just not fun. It has been said. We have grind, and it is a necessity if you want to compete with BiS items.

And I would not say that Colin is just a small number in matters of GW2 who is just throwing around ideas out of the blue in an interview…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If a lead developer explains the game, that was promoted by the manifesto, one would expect him to know what the kitten is going on.

Indeed, but Colin has never been a lead developer of this game. He is a game director.

lordkrall.7241:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If a lead developer explains the game, that was promoted by the manifesto, one would expect him to know what the kitten is going on.

Indeed, but Colin has never been a lead developer of this game. He is a game director.

Than it is even worse, as a director you are suppost to know simply everything. He gives directions and makes people do what he wants them to do.

He is the boss of the lead developers, he of all should know what’s going on.

That is nothing personal against Colin, because I am 100% sure he knows what’s going on, and he is giving the direction he thinks are right.
But in matters of the Manifesto, the past things said are no longer valid.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If a lead developer explains the game, that was promoted by the manifesto, one would expect him to know what the kitten is going on.

You act like the Manifesto was written by some stranger outside of ANet just for the sake of writing it.

We do not want grind that’s just not fun. It has been said. We have grind, and it is a necessity if you want to compete with BiS items.

And I would not say that Colin is just a small number in matters of GW2 who is just throwing around ideas out of the blue in an interview…

I have all BiS gear and never grinded, so either I’m a wizard haxor or the manifesto is true.
I believe the main issue is that people de-contextualizes or gives different meanings to the manifesto, either genuinely (i.e. they actually misread) or they purposely twist its words to blame Anet for one’s shortcomings.

Red Falcon.8257:

I have all BiS gear and never grinded, so either I’m a wizard haxor or the manifesto is true.
I believe the main issue is that people de-contextualizes or gives different meanings to the manifesto, either genuinely (i.e. they actually misread) or they purposely twist its words to blame Anet for one’s shortcomings.

You are simply not what in general is seen as a casual. A casual is one that plays mayby 5 hours a week.

It is those 50% of the playerbase that has 770 achievement points or less. And that is not entirely true, as you would call those 50% with more than 770 AP hardcore already..

90% of the poplulation has 3500 AP or less, how many of these people will have all BiS items?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If a lead developer explains the game, that was promoted by the manifesto, one would expect him to know what the kitten is going on.

You act like the Manifesto was written by some stranger outside of ANet just for the sake of writing it.

We do not want grind that’s just not fun. It has been said. We have grind, and it is a necessity if you want to compete with BiS items.

And I would not say that Colin is just a small number in matters of GW2 who is just throwing around ideas out of the blue in an interview…

Believe what you want. Marketing departments, the kind of people who write stuff like the manifesto, are often not understood by developers. They don’t always see eye to eye. They don’t always communicate well.

If you can’t see there are communications problems in Anet, again, I don’t know what to say. Hell you’re assuming the guy who wrote it still even works there.

There were times at conventions and during panels when Colin did explain exactly what that meant. If you want to go trolling through old videos that appeared closer to the source (and were therefore more likely accurate) be my guest. I have better things to do.

And I don’t are if you don’t believe me. The language of the manifesto itself doesn’t support what you’re saying.

Colin Johanson (Game Director/Big Boss):

“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game."

What do I not see? What is there that is beyond my reading capabilities?

“We want everyone on an equal power base.”

Which is no longer true.

Nothing leaves ANets office without Colin giving it a go. Especially not a thing like the manifesto.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Colin Johanson (Game Director/Big Boss):

“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game."

What do I not see? What is there that is beyond my reading capabilities?

“We want everyone on an equal power base.”

Which is no longer true.

Nothing leaves ANets office without Colin giving it a go. Especially not a thing like the manifesto.

I’m talking about the text of the manifesto itself. That is the video that people are talking about and have quoted here. The actual text. Which is this.

“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

No reference to gear. No reference to vertical progression.

Do you know when you look up grinding in Wikipedia the first and preferred definition is about killing mobs to level. And that’s pretty much how I took it.

After the manifesto came out, Colin said a whole bunch of times that most games you play one game while leveling, to get to the real game at the end. He doesn’t think the game should change at the end. It’s what he said. That is to say if you’re doing what you enjoy while leveling, you should be able to keep doing the same stuff.

It’s not level now, grind away, and then enjoy the game. That’s all he was talking about. The text supports what I’m saying he’s saying and stuff he said during the year after supports it as well.

You can believe what you like. It doesn’t change that the text says nothing about gear, or vertical progression.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You are simply not what in general is seen as a casual. A casual is one that plays mayby 5 hours a week.

It is those 50% of the playerbase that has 770 achievement points or less. And that is not entirely true, as you would call those 50% with more than 770 AP hardcore already..

90% of the poplulation has 3500 AP or less, how many of these people will have all BiS items?

I’m pretty casual actually.
Played since BWE1 and I have 1226 hours of /age, which means average 3 hours a day (which really is 10 hours in weekends and 1-2 a day in the week).
The only items I needed to go out of my way to get were rings since you just had to complete several fractals to get exactly the rings you wanted.

The only BiS gear I can complain for is weapons since it requires crafting and a ton of cash.
But they said more ways to get those will be created, so everyone should be ok.

Colin, taken from the Manifesto:

“Most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionaly that you get to do. And the rest of the game is boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, hey, I swung it again – that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2 – noone enjoys it, noone finds it fun, we want to change the way people do combat.”

For a game where the director says they don’t want people to grind, there is a bloody high amount of grind in it…

What they do talk about however is MANDATORY grind. This does not exist in GW2.
You don’t NEED to grind anything in order to do any content in the game.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m pretty casual actually.
Played since BWE1 and I have 1226 hours of /age, which means average 3 hours a day (which really is 10 hours in weekends and 1-2 a day in the week).
The only items I needed to go out of my way to get were rings since you just had to complete several fractals to get exactly the rings you wanted.

The only BiS gear I can complain for is weapons since it requires crafting and a ton of cash.
But they said more ways to get those will be created, so everyone should be ok.

You sepend 1226 hours on a video game and think you are casual? That’s over 153 workdays in about a year. With 40 hours a week for a job, that would be over 30 weeks of work in just about over a year.

If you think you are casual and that GW2 is not your second job, that is your personal thingy.

But if you think that casual players invest this much time in a game, you are wrong.

Casual doesn’t really have much to do with the time spent in a game.
Someone could have been standing around chatting in LA for 2000 hours, that wouldn’t make them hardcore players, even if they have a large mount of hours logged.

lordkrall.7241:

Casual doesn’t really have much to do with the time spent in a game.
Someone could have been standing around chatting in LA for 2000 hours, that wouldn’t make them hardcore players, even if they have a large mount of hours logged.

So what, this casual would not have the BiS gear unless he grinds his back of too. What is your point?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So what, this casual would not have the BiS gear unless he grinds his back of too. What is your point?

Hm?
I have BiS gear in all available slots at the moment, and I haven’t really done any grinding, just played the game as I normally would. Such as doing events, running around in WvW, doing some dungeons now and then.

Because you spend 30 weeks of work time in it.

Your average John Doe plays 5 hours a week, after a year he has what, 120h in the game, show me how he can get BiS items withouth grinding like no tomorrow.

He will however get it sooner or later, even if he only plays that little.
And then again, if he plays that little why would he even care about it?

Because the game was advertised like that, because he chose this game on that base.

Ok they speak of no bosses respawn in personal story but duuuuh really?, thats just damage control, how many bosses respawn in singleplayer RPG?, thats right NONE, they made a blunder and saying bu bu bu but we meant no bosses in personal story.

If you listen to the manifesto they sead basicly they dont want to make another generic MMO were bosses respawn every 10min, I can’t make the conection they are talking about personal story in that sentence, they are talking about GW2 as a whole and Anet stay true to that in some extent if you are looking at the Orr temple runs and other areas, and then we have Queensland that basicly kittens it up.

There are several other things in Manifesto that don’t add up, sure It’s a old trailer, but please if that’s not what GW2 is all about anymore, please take it down from the main page then.

lordkrall.7241:

He will however get it sooner or later, even if he only plays that little.
And then again, if he plays that little why would he even care about it?

And with that logic, an asian grinder is not a grinder, because, even if you play just a little, you will reach the level cap sooner or later…

Torgrim.3642:

Ok they speak of no bosses respawn in personal story but duuuuh really?, thats just damage control, how many bosses respawn in singleplayer RPG?, thats right NONE, they made a blunder and saying bu bu bu but we meant no bosses in personal story.

If you listen to the manifesto they sead basicly they dont want to make another generic MMO were bosses respawn every 10min, I can’t make the conection they are talking about personal story in that sentence, they are talking about GW2 as a whole and Anet stay true to that in some extent if you are looking at the Orr temple runs and other areas, and then we have Queensland that basicly kittens it up.

There are several other things in Manifesto that don’t add up, sure It’s a old trailer, but please if that’s not what GW2 is all about anymore, please take it down from the main page then.

You speak as if this is a rule, not the exception. SWToR wasn’t out when this was made. MMOs didn’t have personal stories where that happened. That’s why they mentioned it.

World bosses and dungeons/raids are all that were in most MMOs. The personal story is most certainly different and something they wanted to tout. Why wouldn’t they?

Vayne.8563:

You speak as if this is a rule, not the exception. SWToR wasn’t out when this was made. MMOs didn’t have personal stories where that happened. That’s why they mentioned it.

World bosses and dungeons/raids are all that were in most MMOs. The personal story is most certainly different and something they wanted to tout. Why wouldn’t they?

The personal story is just a copy of LotRO’s Book quests and class quests.
But while the book quests in LotRO at least span a wide arc and carry you around the world with story instances in between and many of them, the personal story makes you go to point A, do a quest and than go to a completely other point to do quest B.

And after level 40, the only sort of unique thing (personally different stories) dies and you do the same solo instances like everyone else. Trahearne’s personal story so to say.

UHG again on this topic? can they just block all topics containing “manifesto” in it?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

You speak as if this is a rule, not the exception. SWToR wasn’t out when this was made. MMOs didn’t have personal stories where that happened. That’s why they mentioned it.

World bosses and dungeons/raids are all that were in most MMOs. The personal story is most certainly different and something they wanted to tout. Why wouldn’t they?

The personal story is just a copy of LotRO’s Book quests and class quests.
But while the book quests in LotRO at least span a wide arc and carry you around the world with story instances in between and many of them, the personal story makes you go to point A, do a quest and than go to a completely other point to do quest B.

And after level 40, the only sort of unique thing (personally different stories) dies and you do the same solo instances like everyone else. Trahearne’s personal story so to say.

Do the book quests in Lotro branch? Do different people have different book quests? Because that’s part of the difference.

In most MMOs all human warriors have the same story. Not so in Guild Wars 2…unless I’m mistaken.

Please, please, just let this die…

They split between races depending on where you are in the story line. You get personal quests for the class you play. So a hobbit warden will have different quests than a hobbit burglar. And a elven guardian will have other stories than a human guardian.

Where is your choice in GW2 though, after recruiting the Quaggans or whatever race?
If you are lucky you get two options to do the same instance in different ways.

And btw, what are hundrets of quests worth, that most players will never see. I honestly would prefer a less personal story, that gives me still all those personal instances.
Why would I not recruit all of the races? Why would I not help Trahearne early on?

Why would someone spend so much development time on things that are unused by most players?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

They split between races depending on where you are in the story line. You get personal quests for the class you play. So a hobbit warden will have different quests than a hobbit burglar. And a elven guardian will have other stories than a human guardian.

Where is your choice in GW2 though, after recruiting the Quaggans or whatever race?
If you are lucky you get two options to do the same instance in different ways.

There are many options in Guild Wars 2…you just seem to be unaware of them. For example, toward the end of the story, the pale tree asks your character your biggest fear and lists three options. Depending on which option you choose, you have several related quests that are different. Choosing a different answer gives you different quests.

So all halfling burglars would have the same exact story but that’s not true of all human warriors. It’s an advancement of the genre.

Everyone always wants to downplay the steps forward made here. But they’re very happy to bring up faults and exaggerate them. Some would call that bias.

lordkrall.7241:

What they do talk about however is MANDATORY grind. This does not exist in GW2.
You don’t NEED to grind anything in order to do any content in the game.

You NEED to grind to be competative in WvW. The power gap is gradually increasing from a couple % to 20 or 30 when armor is released.

I wouldn’t call it a step forward if players are excluded from large parts of the story.

As an example, if you don’t play a sylvari character, you will meet Trahearne very late in game. You won’t know him until it is too late (when your personal story becomes his). But all things related to Orr or the undead are part of the Sylvari story line.

So I have choices, but if I make the wrong one, like not playing a Sylvari, I miss out the story itself. How is this good game design and a step forward?

You miss the lore because of the bad design known as personal story.

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

What the kitten, he is explaining what the Manifesto means, on what idea it was founded. The ideas on what the whole game was based on. The bloody concept.

But well, nothing is harder to see than the things you don’t want to see…

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that Colin wrote the manifesto or was instrumental in writing it. I’m not sure that’s the case. We don’t really know who wrote the manifesto. We know people spoke it, but not who wrote it.

The language of the manifesto is actually pretty clear. It’s saying “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2…we want to change the way people view combat.” Not gear. Combat.

I’m pretty sure that taking once sentence out of context, particularly when another actually defines the type of grind they’re talking about, isn’t the best way to interpret a document.

Not sure what “grinding” means in combat.

But if there was ever such a thing as “combat grind” as in a fight being the same every time “I swing a sword, I swung it again”, then GW2 is pretty much the epitome of “combat grind” lol.

I don’t remember being able to afk with auto attack on for a large part of the game in other MMO’s. /shrug

Vayne.8563:

After the manifesto came out, Colin said a whole bunch of times that most games you play one game while leveling, to get to the real game at the end. He doesn’t think the game should change at the end. It’s what he said. That is to say if you’re doing what you enjoy while leveling, you should be able to keep doing the same stuff.

That also exists here, considering I had to slog through boring world exploration I’ve already done to get my alt to 80 before I could actually enjoy the rest of the game with him, having gear/skills/traits etc. /shrug

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I wouldn’t call it a step forward if players are excluded from large parts of the story.

As an example, if you don’t play a sylvari character, you will meet Trahearne very late in game. You won’t know him until it is too late (when your personal story becomes his). But all things related to Orr or the undead are part of the Sylvari story line.

So I have choices, but if I make the wrong one, like not playing a Sylvari, I miss out the story itself. How is this good game design and a step forward?

You miss the lore because of the bad design known as personal story.

That’s why you have five character slots. So you can play through every racial story if story is important to you.

And yes, I consider it a step forward. Because really no one has to do everything in a game. It’s good that different people have different histories. It’s more like what the original RPGs were like.

There’s never been enough RPG in MMORPGs.

So what is it to you? Some people like to farm champ in queensdale. How does it affect you.

Knote.2904:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

What the kitten, he is explaining what the Manifesto means, on what idea it was founded. The ideas on what the whole game was based on. The bloody concept.

But well, nothing is harder to see than the things you don’t want to see…

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that Colin wrote the manifesto or was instrumental in writing it. I’m not sure that’s the case. We don’t really know who wrote the manifesto. We know people spoke it, but not who wrote it.

The language of the manifesto is actually pretty clear. It’s saying “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2…we want to change the way people view combat.” Not gear. Combat.

I’m pretty sure that taking once sentence out of context, particularly when another actually defines the type of grind they’re talking about, isn’t the best way to interpret a document.

Not sure what “grinding” means in combat.

But if there was ever such a thing as “combat grind” as in a fight being the same every time “I swing a sword, I swung it again”, then GW2 is pretty much the epitome of “combat grind” lol.

I don’t remember being able to afk with auto attack on for a large part of the game in other MMO’s. /shrug

If you read the entire passage, it starts talking about the grind in games to get to the fun stuff. And it most games it’s true. People level first. They want to rush through leveling. They want leveling guides. They want to level as fast as human possible and consider it a chore, because raiding is what they want to get to. Half the problem with this game is that people want to play it like other games.

In this game you don’t level to raid. You don’t do significantly different things after you hit max level. As much as anything else, that’s one of the things this game was sold on, and it pretty much remains true.

When I played Rift, I felt I was being funneled into dungeons and raiding. The open world was a joke and meant nothing. I don’t feel that here.

To me, that’s what Colin was talking about. And it was backed up, as I said, many times after the manifesto was first released, at interviews and panels in conferences.

I honestly think it is time we move on from the kitten manifesto. The flaws in this game are still flaws, manifesto or not. Bringing up the manifesto is just going to made all these discussions become people arguing what manifestos are, instead of stuff about the game.

Vayne.8563:

If you read the entire passage, it starts talking about the grind in games to get to the fun stuff. And it most games it’s true. People level first. They want to rush through leveling. They want leveling guides. They want to level as fast as human possible and consider it a chore, because raiding is what they want to get to. Half the problem with this game is that people want to play it like other games.

The same is true here lol. Why do you think so many people spent the gold to just craft some characters to 80? Because you have to slog through 80 levels otherwise doing stuff you already did, which really wasn’t that great to begin with (few skills fighting the same mobs, doing the same events such as “kill 5 mobs” etc), just to get to the fun stuff, where you have all your gear/skills/traits and aren’t at a massive disadvantage for the stuff you can do upleveled.

Vayne.8563:

In this game you don’t level to raid. You don’t do significantly different things after you hit max level. As much as anything else, that’s one of the things this game was sold on, and it pretty much remains true.

That’s because there is no fun raids in this game, just open world zergfests that are devoid of skill. Yes there was finally an attempt with Tequatl, but they shot themselves in the foot making it require 80+ people. Yet one of the arguments AGAINST raiding is how hard it is to organize 20 people lol. Not to mention mixing “hardcore” content with casual strangers.

But as I said, you hitting max level is significant.

Vayne.8563:

When I played Rift, I felt I was being funneled into dungeons and raiding. The open world was a joke and meant nothing. I don’t feel that here.

I played RIFT and I think the open world stuff is far more meaningful there than it is here. I think Anet could take a few things from Rift IMO.

But just taking the other side, I could say the open world was a joke here. I mean really, auto attacking zerg fests even on world bosses, that’s enough said. Hopefully they don’t give up after the Tequatl fail, because it was a good try.

Vayne.8563:

To me, that’s what Colin was talking about. And it was backed up, as I said, many times after the manifesto was first released, at interviews and panels in conferences.

I’m not sure why you spend so much time posting to hard core defend Anet like, well you know already (fanboy). But I have to say you’d make a good marketing guy or politician, able to make giant post after giant post trying to spin these blatantly false quotes into something positive. It really is fun to read lol, these arguments go on forever.

I think we both know how wrong they were, but that happens all the time, it’s just a simple fact and we’ve mostly accepted it. They probably had much bigger ideas that just didn’t cut it. Look at home instances or the personality system that never really made it.

Knote.2904:

Vayne.8563:

If you read the entire passage, it starts talking about the grind in games to get to the fun stuff. And it most games it’s true. People level first. They want to rush through leveling. They want leveling guides. They want to level as fast as human possible and consider it a chore, because raiding is what they want to get to. Half the problem with this game is that people want to play it like other games.

The same is true here lol. Why do you think so many people spent the gold to just craft some characters to 80? Because you have to slog through 80 levels otherwise doing stuff you already did, which really wasn’t that great to begin with (few skills fighting the same mobs, doing the same events such as “kill 5 mobs” etc), just to get to the fun stuff, where you have all your gear/skills/traits and aren’t at a massive disadvantage for the stuff you can do upleveled.

Vayne.8563:

In this game you don’t level to raid. You don’t do significantly different things after you hit max level. As much as anything else, that’s one of the things this game was sold on, and it pretty much remains true.

That’s because there is no fun raids in this game, just open world zergfests that are devoid of skill. Yes there was finally an attempt with Tequatl, but they shot themselves in the foot making it require 80+ people. Yet one of the arguments AGAINST raiding is how hard it is to organize 20 people lol. Not to mention mixing “hardcore” content with casual strangers.

But as I said, you hitting max level is significant.

Vayne.8563:

When I played Rift, I felt I was being funneled into dungeons and raiding. The open world was a joke and meant nothing. I don’t feel that here.

I played RIFT and I think the open world stuff is far more meaningful there than it is here. I think Anet could take a few things from Rift IMO.

But just taking the other side, I could say the open world was a joke here. I mean really, auto attacking zerg fests even on world bosses, that’s enough said. Hopefully they don’t give up after the Tequatl fail, because it was a good try.

Vayne.8563:

To me, that’s what Colin was talking about. And it was backed up, as I said, many times after the manifesto was first released, at interviews and panels in conferences.

I’m not sure why you spend so much time posting to hard core defend Anet like, well you know already (fanboy). But I have to say you’d make a good marketing guy or politician, able to make giant post after giant post trying to spin these blatantly false quotes into something positive. It really is fun to read lol, these arguments go on forever.

I think we both know how wrong they were, but that happens all the time, it’s just a simple fact and we’ve mostly accepted it. They probably had much bigger ideas that just didn’t cut it. Look at home instances or the personality system that never really made it.

Any who thought they would be able to make a level 80 instantly after leveling one character to 80 had very very unreasonable expectations. Anyone who thought leveling up is grinding absolutely chose the wrong game to play. “Well I have to level up to 80 levels to get to the fun stuff” is no where near a valid argument when you knew full and well that you would have to level up all your characters from the beginnig.

eisberg.2379:

Knote.2904:

Vayne.8563:

If you read the entire passage, it starts talking about the grind in games to get to the fun stuff. And it most games it’s true. People level first. They want to rush through leveling. They want leveling guides. They want to level as fast as human possible and consider it a chore, because raiding is what they want to get to. Half the problem with this game is that people want to play it like other games.

The same is true here lol. Why do you think so many people spent the gold to just craft some characters to 80? Because you have to slog through 80 levels otherwise doing stuff you already did, which really wasn’t that great to begin with (few skills fighting the same mobs, doing the same events such as “kill 5 mobs” etc), just to get to the fun stuff, where you have all your gear/skills/traits and aren’t at a massive disadvantage for the stuff you can do upleveled.

Vayne.8563:

In this game you don’t level to raid. You don’t do significantly different things after you hit max level. As much as anything else, that’s one of the things this game was sold on, and it pretty much remains true.

That’s because there is no fun raids in this game, just open world zergfests that are devoid of skill. Yes there was finally an attempt with Tequatl, but they shot themselves in the foot making it require 80+ people. Yet one of the arguments AGAINST raiding is how hard it is to organize 20 people lol. Not to mention mixing “hardcore” content with casual strangers.

But as I said, you hitting max level is significant.

Vayne.8563:

When I played Rift, I felt I was being funneled into dungeons and raiding. The open world was a joke and meant nothing. I don’t feel that here.

I played RIFT and I think the open world stuff is far more meaningful there than it is here. I think Anet could take a few things from Rift IMO.

But just taking the other side, I could say the open world was a joke here. I mean really, auto attacking zerg fests even on world bosses, that’s enough said. Hopefully they don’t give up after the Tequatl fail, because it was a good try.

Vayne.8563:

To me, that’s what Colin was talking about. And it was backed up, as I said, many times after the manifesto was first released, at interviews and panels in conferences.

I’m not sure why you spend so much time posting to hard core defend Anet like, well you know already (fanboy). But I have to say you’d make a good marketing guy or politician, able to make giant post after giant post trying to spin these blatantly false quotes into something positive. It really is fun to read lol, these arguments go on forever.

I think we both know how wrong they were, but that happens all the time, it’s just a simple fact and we’ve mostly accepted it. They probably had much bigger ideas that just didn’t cut it. Look at home instances or the personality system that never really made it.

Any who thought they would be able to make a level 80 instantly after leveling one character to 80 had very very unreasonable expectations. Anyone who thought leveling up is grinding absolutely chose the wrong game to play. “Well I have to level up to 80 levels to get to the fun stuff” is no where near a valid argument when you knew full and well that you would have to level up all your characters from the beginnig.

I never expected that… But leveling up is grinding, and sorry, but how is “Well I have to level up to 80 levels to get to the fun stuff” not a valid argument despite knowing that the game involves leveling? Lol what?

It was an argument used when someone stated that it wasn’t the case when it was.

Torgrim.3642:

I have played GW2 since beta 1, more and more I see the GW2 manifesto getting more and more untrue.
Bosses dont respawn after 10min yeah right , please explain Queensdale champ runs, I would really like to know and why you diverted your own goals and plans to………..this.

First of all, Queensdale Champ runs are a thing created by players exploiting the system. The intention was you adventure around Queensdale then suddenly ‘Woah! A giant wasp!’, then you call adventurers form across the map to help you kill said giant wasp, not everyone running in a pre-planned circle in time to the spawn timers and yelling insults at everyone killing the bosses out of order.

Second of all, would the champions spawning once a day be better? You come home from work, and dang, someone killed it on reset already. Makes for a great game right?

Well he always has an excuse for bad game design that is for sure.

You got to play five different races to get the story? What is it good for than to have all those differnent personal stories, if it makes no sense to make 3 human characters? And then 3 Sylvari and so on…

Sooo many flaws.

Are you telling me other games let you PvP with max level characters right out of the box? Cause I think most of them don’t.

Yes, some people like to craft up to 80, but plenty of people enjoy playing in the world. The open world remains my favorite part of this game. Not dungeons. Not the living story. Not farming.

Just running around the open world.

It’s not for everyone, but that doesn’t make the manifesto any less true for some of us.

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Well he always has an excuse for bad game design that is for sure.

You got to play five different races to get the story? What is it good for than to have all those differnent personal stories, if it makes no sense to make 3 human characters? And then 3 Sylvari and so on…

Sooo many flaws.

Saying something is a flaw doesn’t make it a flaw. Having less options, to me, is far more flawed than having more options.

You have more options in doing the quests if they are available. You have no option if they are not available.
Not everyone is willing to play 15 characters just to see all of the story.

Manifesto or otherwise, Arena.net reneged on some pretty key points which absolutely were a major selling point of the game. For some, these points may have been the key reason for buying the game. I fall into this lot and when I see the game move so far from what I was told to expect, I have a right to feel upset and voice opinion about it.

For me, the primary draw to the game was when they told me characters would reach max level quickly, and upon reaching max level, quickly reach a gear plateau. The type of horizontal vs vertical progression A.net was touting was the reason I loved GW1 and the reason I bought GW2. That combined with the “no grind” statement are the two biggest betrayals.

As an alt lover, I was ready to love the game I was promised before launch. Now I’m just hoping things start trending in the opposite direction they currently are.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You have more options in doing the quests if they are available. You have no option if they are not available.
Not everyone is willing to play 15 characters just to see all of the story.

You don’t need to see all the story. They didn’t make it so you’d have to. No, it’s much better to have less options to have everyone the same.

I don’t get it at all.

If it is the first time you play it, it is new no matter if it is the same for everybody. It is still my personal story, even though it is the same as everyone elses.

This is my story. Honestly, why implement all the story and then tell people you do not need to see it all, what is your point?

What a waste of time. Let me play all the story once, and if I play an alt, I can choose to do parts of it or not. I had the same choice on the first char, but if the story is not needed as you said, why splitting it up anyway?

Why having the story in the game, if it becomes something obsolete? Why excluding parts of the story from people just for the sake of a “personal story” that is not more or less personal if I have a choice or not.