Guild Wars 2

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If it is the first time you play it, it is new no matter if it is the same for everybody. It is still my personal story, even though it is the same as everyone elses.

This is my story. Honestly, why implement all the story and then tell people you do not need to see it all, what is your point?

What a waste of time. Let me play all the story once, and if I play an alt, I can choose to do parts of it or not. I had the same choice on the first char, but if the story is not needed as you said, why splitting it up anyway?

Why having the story in the game, if it becomes something obsolete? Why excluding parts of the story from people just for the sake of a “personal story” that is not more or less personal if I have a choice or not.

I have an idea. Let’s have one story for everyone and that’s it. Why have variety at all? And we should have one profession too. Maybe just one skill.

If someone just plays a warrior and nothing else, they’ll miss stuff in most games that other professions get to experience. Anet moved that from being a profession thing (most games have profession specific quests) to a race thing. That’s all. But they improved it.

One of the problems with MMOs IS replayability. Maybe you don’t like alts. That’s fine. But for people who do, maybe they don’t want to do the same thing over and over. In fact, for many people, having something that differentiates you from others of the same race and profession is golden. It’s one of the things I like best about this game.

One of the hardest things about MMOs is differentiating yourself from other people. Everyone has the same stupid gear. The same skins. The same dyes. Sure you can get a look if you work on it, but that’s just a look.

Of course, RPers make their own story but not everyone RPs..yet there are many people who there who don’t RP but still “feel” their character. The personal story makes it just that…personal.

And if you can’t experience all of it, I’m not sure why that’s such a big deal. It’s like any game where there are professions quests you miss out on if you don’t play every profession.

Vayne.8563:

I have an idea. Let’s have one story for everyone and that’s it. Why have variety at all? And we should have one profession too. Maybe just one skill.

If someone just plays a warrior and nothing else, they’ll miss stuff in most games that other professions get to experience. Anet moved that from being a profession thing (most games have profession specific quests) to a race thing. That’s all. But they improved it.

One of the problems with MMOs IS replayability. Maybe you don’t like alts. That’s fine. But for people who do, maybe they don’t want to do the same thing over and over. In fact, for many people, having something that differentiates you from others of the same race and profession is golden. It’s one of the things I like best about this game.

One of the hardest things about MMOs is differentiating yourself from other people. Everyone has the same stupid gear. The same skins. The same dyes. Sure you can get a look if you work on it, but that’s just a look.

Of course, RPers make their own story but not everyone RPs..yet there are many people who there who don’t RP but still “feel” their character. The personal story makes it just that…personal.

And if you can’t experience all of it, I’m not sure why that’s such a big deal. It’s like any game where there are professions quests you miss out on if you don’t play every profession.

I agree.

If anything I think Anet should have “exclusived” the story even more.
I was kinda disappointed that your choice of profession does not affect the story in any way.
I was looking forward to find out how, why and where exactly my orphaned street rat learned the dark arts necessary to summon a blood fiend from the get go.
Oh well…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

Because that’d wreck any sense of progression. Its like having a Mario game where world 8 is open to you straight away or a RPG where the first area is the final area, then you can go back and do the other areas. It doesn’t work.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

Because that’d wreck any sense of progression. Its like having a Mario game where world 8 is open to you straight away or a RPG where the first area is the final area, then you can go back and do the other areas. It doesn’t work.

Sure did for GW1

I’d have no qualms with it if they had lowered the level cap and made more areas level 80 zones.
Right now your character’s full potential only comes out in a select number of places.

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

Because that’d wreck any sense of progression. Its like having a Mario game where world 8 is open to you straight away or a RPG where the first area is the final area, then you can go back and do the other areas. It doesn’t work.

Sure did for GW1

I’d have no qualms with it if they had lowered the level cap and made more areas level 80 zones.
Right now your character’s full potential only comes out in a select number of places.

Pretty much, they could’ve just stopped the levels at 15 or 25 and called it a day really, it wouldn’t have changed anything. The number is meaningless, more so in this game.

I know they only did it to appeal to a bigger audience that wouldn’t understand just how meaningless it is right away, and think “wow this game is small only 15 levels”. But it’s just an added hassle to making alts.

If grouping was the best way to level, I could maybe see it. One of the fun things I had in certain MMO’s like CoH or even Champions Online is grouping being the best way to level, thus having to level an alt the fast way meant grouping a ton and just doing stuff, I wish every MMO shared that concept.

If you had all the story at hand, but only need one arc to progress in the story (but you could do more), and later on got the choice to go through the other arcs, you would have choices over choices.

And if you need levels so you feel progression, you can just stay in one area and never leave it and level to 80 there. Levels mean nothing. If I go back to Queensdale with my level 80, what level am I, 15? If I go to the labyrith with a level 2 char, what level am I, 80?

Knote.2904:

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

Because that’d wreck any sense of progression. Its like having a Mario game where world 8 is open to you straight away or a RPG where the first area is the final area, then you can go back and do the other areas. It doesn’t work.

Sure did for GW1

I’d have no qualms with it if they had lowered the level cap and made more areas level 80 zones.
Right now your character’s full potential only comes out in a select number of places.

Pretty much, they could’ve just stopped the levels at 15 or 25 and called it a day really, it wouldn’t have changed anything. The number is meaningless, more so in this game.

I know they only did it to appeal to a bigger audience that wouldn’t understand just how meaningless it is right away, and think “wow this game is small only 15 levels”. But it’s just an added hassle to making alts.

If grouping was the best way to level, I could maybe see it. One of the fun things I had in certain MMO’s like CoH or even Champions Online is grouping being the best way to level, thus having to level an alt the fast way meant grouping a ton and just doing stuff, I wish every MMO shared that concept.

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Perhaps accessibility should then be decided by player skill instead of number magnitude, hmm?

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Perhaps accessibility should then be decided by player skill instead of number magnitude, hmm?

For a start, how would you decide player skill? What’s too easy for some is too hard for others.

Secondly, you can’t level player skill, which means that if some people are bad at the game, you’ll have entire zones which they can’t access.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Perhaps accessibility should then be decided by player skill instead of number magnitude, hmm?

For a start, how would you decide player skill? What’s too easy for some is too hard for others.

Secondly, you can’t level player skill, which means that if some people are bad at the game, you’ll have entire zones which they can’t access.

So what, there is no hard zone for a level 80 in this game. All zones feel the same besides the very early ones (they might be less challenging). So what on earth would be the difference? Progression can be through skills, quests and exploration, no matter what level a char is.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Perhaps accessibility should then be decided by player skill instead of number magnitude, hmm?

For a start, how would you decide player skill? What’s too easy for some is too hard for others.

Secondly, you can’t level player skill, which means that if some people are bad at the game, you’ll have entire zones which they can’t access.

So what, there is no hard zone for a level 80 in this game. All zones feel the same besides the very early ones (they might be less challenging). So what on earth would be the difference? Progression can be through skills, quests and exploration, no matter what level a char is.

There isn’t a hard zone for level 80, but you can’t step foot in Orr as a level 20. So there’s that feeling of one day, you’ll be able to go there.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Perhaps accessibility should then be decided by player skill instead of number magnitude, hmm?

For a start, how would you decide player skill? What’s too easy for some is too hard for others.

Secondly, you can’t level player skill, which means that if some people are bad at the game, you’ll have entire zones which they can’t access.

Well Orr is already too hard for some people to explore completely, in which case they group up. I think that is fair. I wouldn’t mind having a hardcore end game zone for that sort of thing, although it would be annoying if you wanted to 100%, but so is WvW.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a certain sense of progression and achievement when there’s places you can;t reach yet. There’s advantages to opening up every single piece of content to everyone at once, but it dulls a sense of getting stronger.

Perhaps accessibility should then be decided by player skill instead of number magnitude, hmm?

For a start, how would you decide player skill? What’s too easy for some is too hard for others.

Secondly, you can’t level player skill, which means that if some people are bad at the game, you’ll have entire zones which they can’t access.

Player skill is decided by testing of course. Unfortunately all of GW2’s testing was done in house, which shows..

It is a most basic assumption that the further a game progresses the better a person becomes at it. Of course there should be a difference in area difficulty, but that difference should be expressed in the difficulty of the challenge (and contrary to popular belief I don’t mean damage sponginess and CC spamminess only) which in itself would be constructed of various aspects such as the quantity of enemies, their behaviour, their tendency to work together, the objectives at hand, etc.

So while there should be a difference in area difficulty so that not all max level areas are equally hard or easy there absolutely should be very hard content that players should strive to perfect their play style for. Think of places like UW, Kannaxai, Urgoz, DoA…

Xae Isareth.1364:

There isn’t a hard zone for level 80, but you can’t step foot in Orr as a level 20. So there’s that feeling of one day, you’ll be able to go there.

That’s why all games need levels to have progression and there is no other way to make content something that is not yet available…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

It was originally supposed to be like that, but during beta testing, closed beta testing, the feedback they got, made them change their mind on that.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Because you spend 30 weeks of work time in it.

Your average John Doe plays 5 hours a week, after a year he has what, 120h in the game, show me how he can get BiS items withouth grinding like no tomorrow.

5 hours a week is in no way average.

10-15 maybe.

Lord Kuru.3685:

DarcShriek.5829:

You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?

The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.

Also, it wouldn’t be as bad if Anet ever actually admitted that their direction changed since the time of the Manifesto (and how did it change). Instead, they keep insisting that they still hold to it.
Well, if they insist that the original, stated design goals still hold true, then people can continue to point out differences between words and actions.

Ahlen.7591:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Because you spend 30 weeks of work time in it.

Your average John Doe plays 5 hours a week, after a year he has what, 120h in the game, show me how he can get BiS items withouth grinding like no tomorrow.

5 hours a week is in no way average.

10-15 maybe.

80% of the player population has below 2200 APs, 50% below 800 APs. In a game where 80% of the accounts has been bought within forst 3 months. I’m pretty sure that 5 hours a week is much closer to the average than you think.

Vayne.8563:

I have an honest question for those who are still bringing up three lines of the manifesto…and think about this before you answer it.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

If the game had met my expectations it would have followed their original game and the Manifesto of course, so no i wouldn’t need to bring it up, i’d be happily playing Guildwars 2.

I played Guildwars 1 for four years, never once did i need to use a Guildwars forum to complain, ask for assistance or anything, i was too busy playing it…

Astralporing.1957:

The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.Also, it wouldn’t be as bad if Anet ever actually admitted that their direction changed since the time of the Manifesto (and how did it change). Instead, they keep insisting that they still hold to it.
Well, if they insist that the original, stated design goals still hold true, then people can continue to point out differences between words and actions.

Mike Obrian

“We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions. If you love MMOs, you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that’s got more active combat, a fully-branching, personalized storyline, a new event system to get people playing together, and still no monthly fees.”

Take everything you love about Guild Wars 1, very subjective and can mean different things to everyone.
Fully branching personal storyline = True in game
Event system = True
No monthly fees = true

Daniel Dociu

“The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic. Everything in our world feels handcrafted and artisanal. We treat our environments as if they are characters themselves.”

All true

Colin Johanson

“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Whole paragraph about combat. Also states that other MMOs you have fun stuff to do occasionally and the rest is a grind to get to the fun stuff. In Guild Wars 2, there is nothing to stop you from doing the fun stuff, the stuff you do at level 1 is the same stuff you’ll be doing in level 80. So, his statement still equals true.

Ree Soesbee

“As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

As has been stated by Anet 3 days after the manifesto released, when ever Ree Soesbee was speaking, she was talking about Personal story line. So her statement is still true

Colin Johanson

“You’ll get quest text that tells you ’I’m being attacked by these horrible things,’ and it’s not actually happening. In the game world, these horrible centaurs are standing around in a field, and you get a quest step that says ‘Go kill ten centaurs.’ We don’t think that’s OK. You see what’s happening. You see centaurs running to the trading post, knocking the walls down, burning and killing the merchants.”

This statement is still true

Ree Soesbee

“We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it’s your world. It’s your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.”

Remember, she is talking about Personal Storyline, and this is still true.

Colin Johanson

“Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.”

As stated by Anet, when Colin was speaking in that video he is talking about Dynamic events. This statement is still true. I failed events that caused another events to happen, have successfully completed events and seen different events that happen.

Ree Soesbee

“You’re meeting new people whom you will then see again. You’re rescuing a village that will stay rescued, who then remember you. The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Again about personal storyline, and this is true.

Knote.2904:

Pariah.8506:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?

Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.

It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?

Because that’d wreck any sense of progression. Its like having a Mario game where world 8 is open to you straight away or a RPG where the first area is the final area, then you can go back and do the other areas. It doesn’t work.

Sure did for GW1

I’d have no qualms with it if they had lowered the level cap and made more areas level 80 zones.
Right now your character’s full potential only comes out in a select number of places.

Pretty much, they could’ve just stopped the levels at 15 or 25 and called it a day really, it wouldn’t have changed anything. The number is meaningless, more so in this game.

I know they only did it to appeal to a bigger audience that wouldn’t understand just how meaningless it is right away, and think “wow this game is small only 15 levels”. But it’s just an added hassle to making alts.

If grouping was the best way to level, I could maybe see it. One of the fun things I had in certain MMO’s like CoH or even Champions Online is grouping being the best way to level, thus having to level an alt the fast way meant grouping a ton and just doing stuff, I wish every MMO shared that concept.

Grouping is the best way to level.

Red Falcon.8257:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If a lead developer explains the game, that was promoted by the manifesto, one would expect him to know what the kitten is going on.

You act like the Manifesto was written by some stranger outside of ANet just for the sake of writing it.

We do not want grind that’s just not fun. It has been said. We have grind, and it is a necessity if you want to compete with BiS items.

And I would not say that Colin is just a small number in matters of GW2 who is just throwing around ideas out of the blue in an interview…

I have all BiS gear and never grinded, so either I’m a wizard haxor or the manifesto is true.
I believe the main issue is that people de-contextualizes or gives different meanings to the manifesto, either genuinely (i.e. they actually misread) or they purposely twist its words to blame Anet for one’s shortcomings.

It was true until Ascended was added, now it is no longer the case, needed or unneeded is not the case, its there but i must grind ridiculously to acquire it, so i gave up..
Ascended was the last straw for me in Guildwars 2, its not the game i signed up for and paid for, it certainly isn’t what the Manifesto states no matter how anyone glorifies it..

If its still around in a few years and they decide to revamp back to a Guildwars 1 Direction i’ll give it a look if not i wont bother, i just see it now as a bad purchase, no hate on the company just sadness on how they became so generic in their ideals.

lordkrall.7241:

What they do talk about however is MANDATORY grind. This does not exist in GW2.
You don’t NEED to grind anything in order to do any content in the game.

Actually they do not say any type of Grind they just use “Grind” as a blanket statement, any Perceived grind, if they had said “Mandatory grind” then yes, but they didn’t…

You don’t NEED to grind anything in order to do any content in the game.

That is not true at all, everything in Guildwars 2 requires Grind of some sort or another, everywhere, bar sitting in Lions Arch chatting..

locoman.1974:

Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)

Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

locoman.1974:

Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)

Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.

My point exactly.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

locoman.1974:

Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)

Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.

You should have read the information available over a 2 year period prior to the game releasing, instead of just 2 minutes of talking on a video. Anet cannot force you to read all the information they released over the years, that is your own responsibility. IF you buy something off of 1 commercial with no research of your own, and then you end up not liking it, it is only your fault.

eisberg.2379:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

locoman.1974:

Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)

Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.

You should have read the information available over a 2 year period prior to the game releasing, instead of just 2 minutes of talking on a video. Anet cannot force you to read all the information they released over the years, that is your own responsibility. IF you buy something off of 1 commercial with no research of your own, and then you end up not liking it, it is only your fault.

Would have made no difference what we read, the changes were added after the game was out, Nov 2012 for me personally. That was the Start of the games downfall in my eyes. I was pretty happy till then, just waited on Balance fixes and new world content etc which never really happened..

Dante.1508:

eisberg.2379:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

locoman.1974:

Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)

Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.

You should have read the information available over a 2 year period prior to the game releasing, instead of just 2 minutes of talking on a video. Anet cannot force you to read all the information they released over the years, that is your own responsibility. IF you buy something off of 1 commercial with no research of your own, and then you end up not liking it, it is only your fault.

Would have made no difference what we read, the changes were added after the game was out, Nov 2012 for me personally. That was the Start of the games downfall in my eyes. I was pretty happy till then, just waited on Balance fixes and new world content etc which never really happened..

You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.

I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.

I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.

Vayne.8563:

We don’t really know who wrote the manifesto. We know people spoke it, but not who wrote it.

It was YOU! You wrote it! Hah! That’s why you are so defensive about it! It all makes sense now…

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

We don’t really know who wrote the manifesto. We know people spoke it, but not who wrote it.

It was YOU! You wrote it! Hah! That’s why you are so defensive about it! It all makes sense now…

He’s defensive about it because there’s a bandwagon mentality that Anet broke their design philosophy and lied to the player base. They didn’t, and while I would like to go into detail on why, it’s an exercise in futility. Read my post history if you care.

Mackdose.6504:

You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.

I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.

I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.

Actually, the game’s direction did change last November. Arguing otherwise is incorrect.

As to “anyone who wanted it has it…” yeah, not so much. It would take me close to two years to replace the 47 exotic level 80 weapons I currently have across 8 characters.

This is a video game, there is no need. There are only varying degrees of want. That is why Ascended was put in, to be wanted — was it not? If not, why is it here?

edit: for clarity, due to filter

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mackdose.6504:

You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.

I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.

I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.

Actually, the game’s direction did change last November. Arguing otherwise is incorrect.

As to “anyone who wanted it has it…” yeah, not so much. It would take me close to two years to replace the 47 exotic level 80 weapons I currently have across 8 characters.

This is a video game, there is no need. There are only varying degrees of want. That is why Ascended was put in, to be wanted — was it not? If not, why is it here?

edit: for clarity, due to filter

Can you please describe the direction you think the game had prior to the update and how it significantly changed after the update?

From where I’m standing, it’s the same game with the same design goals.

Mackdose.6504:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mackdose.6504:

You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.

I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.

I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.

Actually, the game’s direction did change last November. Arguing otherwise is incorrect.

As to “anyone who wanted it has it…” yeah, not so much. It would take me close to two years to replace the 47 exotic level 80 weapons I currently have across 8 characters.

This is a video game, there is no need. There are only varying degrees of want. That is why Ascended was put in, to be wanted — was it not? If not, why is it here?

edit: for clarity, due to filter

Can you please describe the direction you think the game had prior to the update and how it significantly changed after the update?

From where I’m standing, it’s the same game with the same design goals.

it is just instant or near instant gratification these people want.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mackdose.6504:

You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.

I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.

I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.

Actually, the game’s direction did change last November. Arguing otherwise is incorrect.

As to “anyone who wanted it has it…” yeah, not so much. It would take me close to two years to replace the 47 exotic level 80 weapons I currently have across 8 characters.

This is a video game, there is no need. There are only varying degrees of want. That is why Ascended was put in, to be wanted — was it not? If not, why is it here?

edit: for clarity, due to filter

And what is wrong with 2 years for 8 characters having 47 items among them? You certainly are not stopped from playing anything on any of your characters without ascended. Also, 47 items in 2 years? That is 2.2 weeks per item. Just how fast do you think you should be gaining items? This is nothing more then you wanting instant gratification, because apparently 2.2 weeks per item is not fast enough.
So if 2.2 weeks per item is not fast enough, how fast do you feel you should be gaining an ascended item? 1 per week? 1 per day? 2 every week? what? You already stated that 2.2 weeks is not fast enough.

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

Just to illustrate that I’m one of the “casuals” you guys keep referring so kindly to, my /age is 334 hours over 420 days.

Please keep that in mind when arguing that the grind hurts casuals, because I would see this being a detriment to my game play if it’s as bad as you’re trying to illustrate.

Thus far, none of these issues that “hurt casuals” has affected my ability to see content or participate.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

ok, they can do that if they want. Wouldn’t make a difference, but sure, why not.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

There’s more power disparity between scaled-up players and a level 80 in rares than the difference between Exotic and Ascended.

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in exotic gear (with exotic armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

There’s more power disparity between scaled-up players and a level 80 in rares than the difference between Exotic and Ascended.

The zergs of WvW prove otherwise. If you have a big enough zerg, you can pretty much take on anything in WvW. Such as the WvW champ farms and karma trains. It’s all about which side has the team that’s better geared. The same as every other MMO’s PvP scene aside from GW.

Ascended just reinforces it. That percentage will matter.

eisberg.2379:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in exotic gear (with exotic armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

The difference is that obtaining exotic gear is trivial.

eisberg.2379:

Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in exotic gear (with exotic armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

The reason is because you can readily get Exotic gear through various means. Ascended isn’t. inb4 the “casuals” with mats to make 9 Ascended pieces come in to tell me how it isn’t.

Skan.5301:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

There’s more power disparity between scaled-up players and a level 80 in rares than the difference between Exotic and Ascended.

The zergs of WvW prove otherwise. If you have a big enough zerg, you can pretty much take on anything in WvW. Such as the WvW champ farms and karma trains. It’s all about which side has the team that’s better geared. The same as every other MMO’s PvP scene aside from GW.

Ascended just reinforces it. That percentage will matter.

No. It’s which side has more numbers and is better at splitting the enemy zerg using control abilities. Gear has very little bearing on on the outcome of any given fight due to the active nature of the combat.

I beat ascended-armed characters in my exotic set. My helm is rare and I don’t have runes in my gear either. Skill/build > Gear

Mackdose.6504:

Skan.5301:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

There’s more power disparity between scaled-up players and a level 80 in rares than the difference between Exotic and Ascended.

The zergs of WvW prove otherwise. If you have a big enough zerg, you can pretty much take on anything in WvW. Such as the WvW champ farms and karma trains. It’s all about which side has the team that’s better geared. The same as every other MMO’s PvP scene aside from GW.

Ascended just reinforces it. That percentage will matter.

No. It’s which side has more numbers and is better at splitting the enemy zerg using control abilities. Gear has very little bearing on on the outcome of any given fight due to the active nature of the combat.

I beat ascended-armed characters in my exotic set. My helm is rare and I don’t have runes in my gear either. Skill/build > Gear

It’s all about numbers. This whole game is about numbers all the way from loot distribution to who wins WvW. Gear has quite a large bearing, actually. Do more damage, thin the numbers more, and win the fight.

We’re not talking current Ascended. We’re talking full geared in Ascended. It’s trivial right now, the weapon provides ~2 or so percent added stats. The full armour/weapon set will provide ~10%.

eisberg.2379:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mackdose.6504:

You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.

I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.

I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.

Actually, the game’s direction did change last November. Arguing otherwise is incorrect.

As to “anyone who wanted it has it…” yeah, not so much. It would take me close to two years to replace the 47 exotic level 80 weapons I currently have across 8 characters.

This is a video game, there is no need. There are only varying degrees of want. That is why Ascended was put in, to be wanted — was it not? If not, why is it here?

edit: for clarity, due to filter

And what is wrong with 2 years? You certainly are not stopped from playing anything on any of your characters without ascended. Also, 47 items in 2 years? That is 2.2 weeks per item. Just how fast do you think you should be gaining items? This is nothing more then you wanting instant gratification, because apparently 2.2 weeks per item is not fast enough.

Ah, yes. The old “you don’t want to work” insult. I’m not insulting you, so I’ll thank you to do the same.

To clarify, I don’t want Ascended gear, I want it to go away, and I know that’ not going to happen. I’m still actively opposing it out of the perhaps vain hope that they won’t introduce another tier down the road. Because, when they don’t introduce better HP options and people are getting restless, they might.

@ Mackdose: Everything said prior to November indicated that HP was endgame, not stat pursuit. That’s what changed.

I would rather they had stuck with their original plan for robust horizontal progression. I expected HP to take a lot of time and effort. I expected it to involve completing involved and interesting content. I expected to be able to choose which content I wanted to pursue, based on which cosmetic options I preferred, and with the rarest pieces in the most difficult content. I expected cosmetics to be the chase, not better stats after I’d already done the “work” to get the best stats.

Instead, we have stat chase linked to crafting, and also at least in part to zerg play which features massive particle spam, which is only rarely challenging. Instead of “the whole game is endgame,” we have all the rewards concentrated in a very small portion of the available content, which leads to that zerg play.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

eisberg.2379:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in exotic gear (with exotic armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

The difference is that obtaining exotic gear is trivial.

And badges and laurels aren’t trivial?

Skan.5301:

Mackdose.6504:

Skan.5301:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

There’s more power disparity between scaled-up players and a level 80 in rares than the difference between Exotic and Ascended.

The zergs of WvW prove otherwise. If you have a big enough zerg, you can pretty much take on anything in WvW. Such as the WvW champ farms and karma trains. It’s all about which side has the team that’s better geared. The same as every other MMO’s PvP scene aside from GW.

Ascended just reinforces it. That percentage will matter.

No. It’s which side has more numbers and is better at splitting the enemy zerg using control abilities. Gear has very little bearing on on the outcome of any given fight due to the active nature of the combat.

I beat ascended-armed characters in my exotic set. My helm is rare and I don’t have runes in my gear either. Skill/build > Gear

It’s all about numbers. This whole game is about numbers all the way from loot distribution to who wins WvW. Gear has quite a large bearing, actually. Do more damage, thin the numbers more, and win the fight.

We’re not talking current Ascended. We’re talking full geared in Ascended. It’s trivial right now, the weapon provides ~2 or so percent added stats. The full armour/weapon set will provide ~10%.

Actually, the majority of the increase in damage has already arrived in the weapons.

There is no manifesto,just a gimmicky statement of intent just to get people buying.After that its history.

So if the stat/damage increase is as minor as some people claim, and taking away ascended gear in WvW would invalidate all that “hard work” but player attributes don’t really matter in WvW… then why bother with crafting the gear? Why be upset if it’s not functional in WvW?

The skins are ugly as sin.

eisberg.2379:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state

Wasn’t a problem because anyone could get it instantly, then go WvW at the same level as everyone else, now with Ascended you must grind or be left out and 20% more damage is a lot, 5% was an extra 1000+ damage in real game terms its been tested on other forum threads..

eisberg.2379:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Mackdose.6504:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.

This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.

But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.

WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state

Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in exotic gear (with exotic armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.

because exotic gear is easy to get, has been easy to get since day 1 and won’t set you back a couple hundred gold, isn’t locked behind time gating, etc

To act like it’s remotely alike is to ignore obvious mechanisms that differentiate the two category and makes an honest discussion with you impossible as you’re the type of poster who is unwilling to hear any opinion but your own…