@ Mackdose: Everything said prior to November indicated that HP was endgame, not stat pursuit. That’s what changed.
I would rather they had stuck with their original plan for robust horizontal progression. I expected HP to take a lot of time and effort. I expected it to involve completing involved and interesting content. I expected to be able to choose which content I wanted to pursue, based on which cosmetic options I preferred, and with the rarest pieces in the most difficult content. I expected cosmetics to be the chase, not better stats after I’d already done the “work” to get the best stats.
Totally valid criticism and I agree with you, however, it was clear playing the beta that they had changed the progression design from Guild Wars.
I didn’t have a preconceived idea of what the progression system was going to be. So when I found the 1-80 leveling with 5 rarities of gear, I already knew we were looking at vertical progression in some form.
The difference between my mindset on Ascended and yours, I reckon, is that I felt like Ascended was going to be the new plateau, rather than a first step to incremental power creep. The problem with vertical progression in theory is that it can lead to power creep and by extension a gear treadmill. This would mean you’d have to keep running or else “fall behind” the gear curve. This was true in other games, where you wouldn’t be able participate in the content without a minimum gear level reached. This does not occur in GW2 outside of fractals, therefore I’m not punished for ignoring ascended gear. Also, this game’s gear curve is balanced around the Rare tier of stats. At exotic, you’re already “over-gearing” max level PvE zones. Get Ascended and it’s overkill.
So to reiterate: Ascended, in my mind, is where the buck stops with stat progression, and it’s a reasonable amount of effort to attain. It doesn’t seem out of reach and I’m not missing anything by not having it.
And it’s not like ascended gear pushed horizontal progression out of the picture completely either. They can (and do) coexist.
@ Mackdose: Everything said prior to November indicated that HP was endgame, not stat pursuit. That’s what changed.
I would rather they had stuck with their original plan for robust horizontal progression. I expected HP to take a lot of time and effort. I expected it to involve completing involved and interesting content. I expected to be able to choose which content I wanted to pursue, based on which cosmetic options I preferred, and with the rarest pieces in the most difficult content. I expected cosmetics to be the chase, not better stats after I’d already done the “work” to get the best stats.
Totally valid criticism and I agree with you, however, it was clear playing the beta that they had changed the progression design from Guild Wars.
I didn’t have a preconceived idea of what the progression system was going to be. So when I found the 1-80 leveling with 5 rarities of gear, I already knew we were looking at vertical progression in some form.
The difference between my mindset on Ascended and yours, I reckon, is that I felt like Ascended was going to be the new plateau, rather than a first step to incremental power creep. The problem with vertical progression in theory is that it can lead to power creep and by extension a gear treadmill. This would mean you’d have to keep running or else “fall behind” the gear curve. This was true in other games, where you wouldn’t be able participate in the content without a minimum gear level reached. This does not occur in GW2 outside of fractals, therefore I’m not punished for ignoring ascended gear. Also, this game’s gear curve is balanced around the Rare tier of stats. At exotic, you’re already “over-gearing” max level PvE zones. Get Ascended and it’s overkill.
So to reiterate: Ascended, in my mind, is where the buck stops with stat progression, and it’s a reasonable amount of effort to attain. It doesn’t seem out of reach and I’m not missing anything by not having it.
And it’s not like ascended gear pushed horizontal progression out of the picture completely either. They can (and do) coexist.
I hope you’re right. I hope the HP initiative they have in mind works out. I recognize I’m pessimistic about the game going forward, but one unpleasant surprise was enough. I’m not going to invest hope again, but will be happy to be pleasantly surprised. In the meantime, I’ll be tilting at windmills — if I stop doing so it will be because I’ve given up on the game.
You know, the game didn’t really change on Nov 15th.
I mean, pink gear has been drip-fed, and anyone who wanted pink gear probably has it already.
I’m sorry for the players who can’t get out of the “It has higher stats, so I need it to be competitive,” mind set.
Actually, the game’s direction did change last November. Arguing otherwise is incorrect.
As to “anyone who wanted it has it…” yeah, not so much. It would take me close to two years to replace the 47 exotic level 80 weapons I currently have across 8 characters.
This is a video game, there is no need. There are only varying degrees of want. That is why Ascended was put in, to be wanted — was it not? If not, why is it here?
edit: for clarity, due to filter
I think there’s enough posts on how Ascended weapons basically gave you sod all in stats over exotics and it’s just there to keep progressionists busy.
So I’ll throw a different argument. Did it cause more harm than good?
Before Ascebded weapons were added, most world bosses and temples were dead content, people were quitting over having nothing to do, dungeons were unpopular as well.
Before anyone says they could just add cosmetic rewards. Jormag has the Breath of Jormag, SB can drop Spirit Chains etc, and no one ever bothered to kill Jormag.
98% of the players didn’t even see the manifesto video in the first place /rolleyes
Wow…
I can pretty much guarantee that number is fictional, unless you are completely ignoring the GW1 playerbase that jumped ship to GW2 based on the manifesto and what we were told and later found to be untrue
OK, this thread is still alive. Than I can clarify some things. Obvious things, where denial is hard to keep up.
1. The personal story failed.
We have not seen any new personal story in over a year. In fact, Dev’s have said that is very likely we never see any personal story ever again, as it was replaced with the so called Living Story.
The fairlure of the personal story is, that it offers very few quests per player compared to the effort needed to produce quests for everyone. It further excludes players from parts of the story. It diminished the time and money put in development so hard, that it is simply not economic. So what to do:
One story line for everyone, called the Living Story. No choices, no alternative routes, every one gets the same dish, everyone swallows the same stuff. Choice in a game is an illusion anyway, as you cannot influence what is going to happen next, the programmers do.
The personal story is dead, because it was bad game design. If it was good, it would be still alive and we would have seen more (the pact rotting in fort trinity and stuff).
2. Casual players do not play as much as you think.
A casual player, which is the majority of the players in game are not playing more than 5h a week. In fact, in a game as old news as GW2 is, they spend even less. That is why ANet focuses on bi-weekly releases, so that people feel the pressure to log in to see the content.
In short term, this is a valid and working strategy, BUT, this strategy has great risks:
- Burn-out: Players feel they are forced to do the content and stop enjoying it.
- Giving up: Players feel like they can no longer keep up with the content and simply stop logging in as it feels futile to play (like you stop watching a drama, if you missed too many episodes)
- Repetition: There is only so many things you can do in short time frames, which results in very little Living Story and tons of “go here and there” stuff and zerg events, zerg events everywhere.
3. Not everyone can get BiS items.
Even though this was a major sales point of the game, this is no longer true. Saying that casual players will get them over time is just a cynic comment in regards of what they were promised.
It takes hours and hours of grind, and if you play 3 hours daily you are grinding the game maybe without realizing it, but if you try to get the stuff together to level and craft one ascended weapon, you will have to spend monthes in doing so playing casually. And you normaly use more than one weapon per character. It becomes a futile grind.
4. Bosses respawn every few minutes.
Just visit the labyrinth, that is your Living Story (replacement for the personal story). Mr. Legendary Skeletal Lich and Mr. Grand High Viscount want to have a word with you (or like a whole discussion, as they are horrible, boring HP sponges).
(edited by Kaiyanwan.8521)
The manifesto was promoted by Anet for a very brief period of time,
By brief period of time do you mean from the point at which it was released until the present (the manifesto is still present on the GW2 site) ?
after which other stuff was promoted by Anet. During the time the manifesto was promoted, the clarification was widely known and talked about. Anet stopped talking about it.
It was being promoted through launch and is still being used to this day. If you are running an advertisement I don’t think that you qualify as having, “stopped talking about,” the subject of the ad. Was this clarification linked to what it supposedly clarified ? Or did the ad continue to run while a supposed clarification was somewhere out there…
They came out with new videos and talked about new things. By the time they stopped talking about the manifesto, and face it, they did, the manifesto clarification was still up and around and easy to find.
So you had to go “find” the clarification while the manifesto was still being used as an advertisement to promote the game.
Now, three years later, of course it’s hard to find. It’s three year old info on a three year old video, about a game that changes every two weeks.
The manifesto is not hard to find (its still being present on the GW2 site), and yet something that was supposed to trump it, something released more recently, something that was supposedly “widely known” and extensively discussed is ?
I have a great idea. Let’s stop everything Anet is doing, go back and fix everything in every document they ever made, instead of moving on and working on the game now.
Because in essence that’s what people are saying.
No. Actually you are the only one saying that.
This one five minute video was so good, so prevalent, so important, that it closed down everyone’s logical facility, twisted are arms, single-handledly made us by the game without another spec of researching, and now, a year after launch, you JUST realized bosses respawn.
Give me a break.
You want a break from your own fantasies ? Its your strawman, if you want a break from it don’t post it.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)
Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.
You should have read the information available over a 2 year period prior to the game releasing, instead of just 2 minutes of talking on a video. Anet cannot force you to read all the information they released over the years, that is your own responsibility. IF you buy something off of 1 commercial with no research of your own, and then you end up not liking it, it is only your fault.
Would have made no difference what we read, the changes were added after the game was out, Nov 2012 for me personally. That was the Start of the games downfall in my eyes. I was pretty happy till then, just waited on Balance fixes and new world content etc which never really happened..
And Anet refuneded people who bought the game for months after that, due to that change. There were people who played the game for six months back then who got refunds.
So maybe it’s time to put up or shut up. This has been the game since November as you pointed out. It’s almost a year later and you’re still complaining about changes made a year ago, even though plenty of people are enjoying the game.
You could have left, gotten a refund and been shot of the game. You chose to stay in the vague hope Anet would return to something that wasn’t working in their eyes.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
It makes no sense.
98% of the players didn’t even see the manifesto video in the first place /rolleyes
Wow…
I can pretty much guarantee that number is fictional, unless you are completely ignoring the GW1 playerbase that jumped ship to GW2 based on the manifesto and what we were told and later found to be untrue
Read the person I quoted to figure out why I said that.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
I blame that whole New Coke/Classic Coke thing.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
I blame that whole New Coke/Classic Coke thing.
Ah, but there’s a substantive difference if the new thing wasn’t working. The problem is, and people here don’t like it and won’t admit it, the new thing IS working. Anet is happy with the numbers of people logging in and playing. They wouldn’t have added more living story team if they didn’t think this was true.
So they made a change because something wasn’t working and it worked to their satisfaction, and now some people are asking them to change it back to what it was when it wasn’t working.
Some would consider that an unreasonable request.
I have played GW2 since beta 1, more and more I see the GW2 manifesto getting more and more untrue.
Bosses dont respawn after 10min yeah right , please explain Queensdale champ runs, I would really like to know and why you diverted your own goals and plans to………..this.
You can see that they’re trying to hold true to the essence of this via the living story. I think they’re on the right track, and I like some of the routines they’ve put in for things going on in the world. i.e. Sometimes it’s the elementals near Cypress City in Orr, sometimes it’s the undead vet. I like the variety and it’s a huge step up from previous games. I look forward to games of the future which expand upon this to give us even more variety.
Cap WvW gear at exotic then since ascended gear offers a supposedly trivial increase to overall power and it “doesn’t really matter”. You can still enjoy everything WvW has to offer with exotic gear.
This would invalidate all the work you’ve put in to attain the gear.
But I see you’re trying to make the “if it doesn’t matter then why have it all?” point that has been trotted out since day one.
WvW isn’t balanced around player statistics. Positioning, timing, build, numbers (as in player-count), and siege matter much more than any given player’s attribute points.
Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in ascended gear (with ascended armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.
Wasn’t problem when exoctic was the highest. Didn’t see people state
Really? Then have fun running up against an organized group decked out in exotic gear (with exotic armor) and their capability to deal approximately 20% more damage. And then come back and tell me it’s not really balanced around player statistics.
because exotic gear is easy to get, has been easy to get since day 1 and won’t set you back a couple hundred gold, isn’t locked behind time gating, etc
To act like it’s remotely alike is to ignore obvious mechanisms that differentiate the two category and makes an honest discussion with you impossible as you’re the type of poster who is unwilling to hear any opinion but your own…
And ascended gear is easy to get as well. It takes time, sure, but it is still easy to get.
Also you are wrong about me, otherwise I can say the same thing about you.
You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?
The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
So, people bought something after watching a several year old video that have since then been clarified upon and that is ArenaNets fault?
There were LOADS of information about the game and its direction long before pre-purchase started.
Not a single person trying to defend the game at it’s current state on my four points. Good. Looks like we at least agree on those topics.
The Manifesto is gone. It was like a temple but then they decided to destroy the main pillar. The whole thing collapsed and what we see now is a ruin, which some people try to defend with the argument:
“It is technically still a temple even though it lies in ruins…”
I don’t understand the OP’s mindset, he played the game since Beta and s/he just realized something about the manifesto now? I mean sure, s/he could just be playing and never visited the forum nor any website nor paid any attention to manifesto till now, but the tone of his/her post is full of arrogance, and stupidity.
I mean come on, if the bosses doesn’t respawn after players killed them (i.e. zerg jumping from one event to another), can you imagine the outcry of players who missed it? I mean, do players who missed the event have to wait a set amount of time greater than 3hrs (for dragons for example), say, wait a week before everything is reset after every server reset?
The living story lasts for two weeks, and we see players complaining how that is tough since chance of missing content is huge. I would imagine an even more complaint if a lot of casual players never gets to kill any world boss cause they can only play on certain day of the week, and always missed ALL bosses.
Not a single person trying to defend the game at it’s current state on my four points. Good. Looks like we at least agree on those topics
I directly disagree with you about casual players not being able to get the BiS items and that casual players are at some sort of disadvantage due to the game’s design.
Our only “disadvantage” is that we don’t have time to play the game and Anet already set up a system to keep us from being “left behind” by hardcore players: time gating.
So casual players already have the safety net in place, and any other changes would punish players who got the items already.
Lowering the cost/barrier also reduces the satisfaction of earning the reward in the first place. I want the upgrade to be an achievement, not some trivial “I’m entitled to this because it exists.” feeling like exotics were.
I also really dislike the fact that you use “grind” to describe playing the game, as if the very act of logging in and having to run around is too much work. I play GW2 to play the game, not to read some guide to figure out how to most efficiently get my superfluous new shiny faster than everyone else.
You know what sucks the fun right out of a game? Turning the game into a task list and focusing all energy into completing every task, one task at a time until you have your shiny.
Even worse, you’re imposing that type of game play like it’s the way the developers meant it to be, rather than what the player base has been taught to think for the last 15 or so years. I don’t grind in Guild Wars 2, because grinding sucks and I don’t have to grind.
Also, the design principles of the manifesto are alive and well, it didn’t die with ascended gear. Please go read my last few posts.
(edited by Mackdose.6504)
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
I blame that whole New Coke/Classic Coke thing.
Ah, but there’s a substantive difference if the new thing wasn’t working. The problem is, and people here don’t like it and won’t admit it, the new thing IS working. Anet is happy with the numbers of people logging in and playing. They wouldn’t have added more living story team if they didn’t think this was true.
So they made a change because something wasn’t working and it worked to their satisfaction, and now some people are asking them to change it back to what it was when it wasn’t working.
Some would consider that an unreasonable request.
Obviously the new thing is working – and working stupendously! Otherwise they wouldn’t have rolled out the old-fashioned but charming ‘Class M-3 Model B9’ policy to deal with all the happy customers.
Ahem.
I think the ‘old thing’ was working quite well, and would have continued to work, and would have maintained, once the initial feeding frenzy had run its course, a faithful and steadfast clientele that would have continued to grow over time, if the powers that be had stayed the course.
Unfortunately, it seems that somewhere along the (lunch) line it was determined that (metaphorically speaking) it would be much easier, less expensive, and coincidentally potentially more profitable to dole out peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (and, occasionally, bologna) on a regular basis than to continue producing flavorful gourmet dishes. Beef Wellington? Chicken Marengo? Ain’t nobody got time for that! Now that they’ve got the rotating quad-shift PB&J production line up and running they’ve been able to crank out those sandwiches like rounds from a Gatling gun! Pew pew pew! And the rejoicing of the hungry masses has indeed been a marvel to behold.
Yes. Obviously, it’s working.
sidebar – tyrian equivalents: beef beetletun? chicken khylo?
You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?
The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
This is a pretty simplified version of reality.
I was going to take the kids to the movies one day. I told the kids I was going to take them to the movies. Then I got a call from work and had to go in. Naturally, my kids were disappointed. Because I told them I was taking them somewhere and couldn’t take them.
Situations change. You can’t not say anything ever, just in case it might change. That makes no sense.
When Anet made the manifesto, two years before the game released (do you realize how long two years is in this industry) do you have any evidence, even one shred, they they didn’t mean every word.
They tried it that way and it wasn’t working…at least according to their metrics…at least that’s what I can glean from what they said. There were too many people playing the game, hitting 80 and leaving. The game didn’t have any stickiness. Even I felt that it didn’t have any, and I don’t care about that stuff.
Without something to keep people playing, people WILL stop playing and move onto something more sticky.
So let me ask you…if it was your millions of dollars of investment and five years of your life, what would you have done.
I’ll never get people who see everything in black and white.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
I blame that whole New Coke/Classic Coke thing.
Ah, but there’s a substantive difference if the new thing wasn’t working. The problem is, and people here don’t like it and won’t admit it, the new thing IS working. Anet is happy with the numbers of people logging in and playing. They wouldn’t have added more living story team if they didn’t think this was true.
So they made a change because something wasn’t working and it worked to their satisfaction, and now some people are asking them to change it back to what it was when it wasn’t working.
Some would consider that an unreasonable request.
Obviously the new thing is working – and working stupendously! Otherwise they wouldn’t have rolled out the old-fashioned but charming ‘Class M-3 Model B9’ policy to deal with all the happy customers.
Ahem.
I think the ‘old thing’ was working quite well, and would have continued to work, and would have maintained, once the initial feeding frenzy had run its course, a faithful and steadfast clientele that would have continued to grow over time, if the powers that be had stayed the course.
Unfortunately, it seems that somewhere along the (lunch) line it was determined that (metaphorically speaking) it would be much easier, less expensive, and coincidentally potentially more profitable to dole out peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (and, occasionally, bologna) on a regular basis than to continue producing flavorful gourmet dishes. Beef Wellington? Chicken Marengo? Ain’t nobody got time for that! Now that they’ve got the rotating quad-shift PB&J production line up and running they’ve been able to crank out those sandwiches like rounds from a Gatling gun! Pew pew pew! And the rejoicing of the hungry masses has indeed been a marvel to behold.
Yes. Obviously, it’s working.
sidebar – tyrian equivalents: beef beetletun? chicken khylo?
Wow, look, a handful of guys on the forums are ruining it for everyone. There’s only one thing that will tell them if it’s working or not, and forum bellyaching ain’kitten
If they’re making money and people are logging in (metrics they have and we don’t) then it’s working.
I can guarantee you back in November, before the introduction of Fractals, it wasn’t working. You can say you think it would have worked and you’d possibly be right, but you can’t know. But we do know there was a much bigger fall off of players, much sooner than expected.
You can say that you think it was going find and would have been fine, but your investment in time and money pales compared to Anet’s investment in time and money. Everyone is always willing to suggest you risk your time and money. Very few people are willing to significantly risk theirs.
Not a single person trying to defend the game at it’s current state on my four points. Good. Looks like we at least agree on those topics.
The Manifesto is gone. It was like a temple but then they decided to destroy the main pillar. The whole thing collapsed and what we see now is a ruin, which some people try to defend with the argument:
“It is technically still a temple even though it lies in ruins…”
Lack of reply doesn’t equal agreement. Some, like me, might feel that talking to someone who doesn’t get what we’re saying (and doesn’t seem likely to) is just a waste of time. I know I have no real desire to reply to most of your posts, even though I disagree with them.
I can guarantee you back in November, before the introduction of Fractals, it wasn’t working.
I can guarantee
guarantee
Now, Vayne, you know can do no such thing – but here you are saying you can anyway. Hey! Something very familiar about this…
You can say that you think it was going find and would have been fine, but your investment in time and money pales compared to Anet’s investment in time and money. Everyone is always willing to suggest you risk your time and money. Very few people are willing to significantly risk theirs.
Hmm. Well. I think I’ll have another cup of coffee. Maybe a snack cake. I’ve got some raisin cream pies. What have you got there? Go get something! Let’s do brunch.
areanet has become another blizzard, disappointed me again with sequel, I am sorry, but gw2 is really boring LOL
I can guarantee you back in November, before the introduction of Fractals, it wasn’t working.
I can guarantee
guarantee
Now, Vayne, you know can do no such thing – but here you are saying you can anyway. Hey! Something very familiar about this…
You can say that you think it was going find and would have been fine, but your investment in time and money pales compared to Anet’s investment in time and money. Everyone is always willing to suggest you risk your time and money. Very few people are willing to significantly risk theirs.
Hmm. Well. I think I’ll have another cup of coffee. Maybe a snack cake. I’ve got some raisin cream pies. What have you got there? Go get something! Let’s do brunch.
No, I can guarantee it. Weren’t you around back then? Did you see the number of posts on the forums about nothing to do at 80. They were an epidemic, not just on this forum but on the one I moderated. It was like a huge wave of posts about it.
People don’t play for fun. They play because there’s something to work towards/for…and most people can’t set there own goals.
So yeah, I can guarantee. You don’t have to believe. Instead you’d rather believe what? That Anet sold the game one way, had a huge base of fans that loved it, and changed it for no reason whatsoever, kitten ing off their most loyal fans in the process? For what reason? Is that really what you believe.
It’s a fact that the game was supposed to not have vertical progression at launch. It’s a fact that Anet was pretty clear about that. It’s a fact that they knew people would be upset at the change (core fans) because they said so. Those are all facts. They knew there’s be an outcry. They did it anyway. Any reasonable person would ask why.
I mean if the game was doing great and fine and dandy, why add ascended anything? Can you think of a reason.
Some people tried to say it was greed, except ascended stuff is account bound and you can’t buy it with cash, particularly when it first came out. You could only get it from fractals. So greed wasn’t the reason.
What’s your opinion then? Why would Anet do, kitten many people have said, a complete 180 that was guaranteed to kitten off a large percentage of their fan base?
I’m willing to listen to your theories on this.
areanet has become another blizzard, disappointed me again with sequel, I am sorry, but gw2 is really boring LOL
And yet here you still are.
I can guarantee you back in November, before the introduction of Fractals, it wasn’t working.
I can guarantee
guarantee
Now, Vayne, you know can do no such thing – but here you are saying you can anyway. Hey! Something very familiar about this…
No, I can guarantee it.
So yeah, I can guarantee. You don’t have to believe.
“Rick James used to do things just to do them. I mean what am I going to do, just all of a sudden jump up and grind my feet into somebody’s couch, like it’s, like it’s something to do? Come on I got a little more sense then that. Yeah, I remember grinding my feet in Eddie’s couch!”
areanet has become another blizzard, disappointed me again with sequel, I am sorry, but gw2 is really boring LOL
Yep, they’re another blizzard because they disappointed you.
A lot of people apparently don’t find it boring. Maybe it’s just an incompatibility with your playstyle, which is fair enough. But you know,. I think it would take more than disappointed a single person or even a bunch of people to make Anet like Blizzard. Like you know, many millions of dollars, for starters.
I just see the game for what it is, and it is no longer true to the Manifesto.
I love the game, I am a hardcore player (as my /age shows 4 digits in hours and my APs are 90% crew high).
I can easily get all the stuff. Why would I care?
I just think it is ridiculous to defend something, that has changed so much, that it is no longer true, simple story.
The Manifesto is dead, long live what we have now.
I just see the game for what it is, and it is no longer true to the Manifesto.
I love the game, I am a hardcore player (as my /age shows 4 digits in hours and my APs are 90% crew high).
I can easily get all the stuff. Why would I care?I just think it is ridiculous to defend something, that has changed so much, that it is no longer true, simple story.
The Manifesto is dead, long live what we have now.
I disagree that the game is no longer true to the manifesto. The only line I really have a problem with was a line that was up for grabs in the first place.
The manifesto is 3 years old. It was a statement of intent. It’s been three years.
Do you know the enough already law?
The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets.
Edit: BTW saying you see the game for what it is would actually be insulting if anyone stopped to think about it. You mean your view is clearer/better/smarter than anyone else’s view, because you see it how it is. No. You see it from your vantage point or how it is to you. I see it how it is to me.
No one sees the game as it is, because everyone filters perception through experience and personal preference.
Since this was ignored, I’ll post it again. Because it’s left me a bit confused
1. People who like ascended claim that the power increase is supposedly minor at best.
2. We can’t cap WvW at an exotic gear level because that would invalidate all the “hard work” people put into getting their little pink weapons/armor.
3. Supporters also claim that ascended doesn’t matter in WvW because WvW is balanced around things other than player stats.
So if the power increase is “minor at best” and WvW is balanced around things other than player power, then why are you wasting your time grinding these weapons out? Why are you resistant to capping WvW gear at the exotic level?
Since this was ignored, I’ll post it again. Because it’s left me a bit confused
1. People who like ascended claim that the power increase is supposedly minor at best.
2. We can’t cap WvW at an exotic gear level because that would invalidate all the “hard work” people put into getting their little pink weapons/armor.
3. Supporters also claim that ascended doesn’t matter in WvW because WvW is balanced around things other than player stats.So if the power increase is “minor at best” and WvW is balanced around things other than player power, then why are you wasting your time grinding these weapons out? Why are you resistant to capping WvW gear at the exotic level?
Actually I agree…I think WvW should be capped at exotic stats. I don’t think that a competitive format of any kind should be influenced by people who have so much more time than money.
But I don’t think it’s a big deal either. It’s clearly a bigger deal if you roam or solo, though.
I see it as what it is. Maybe because I am old and I have seen so much before.
Maybe because I work in QA, so I have learnt to see what things are promoted as and what they really are.
Maybe it is my super power. I just don’t try too hard to make something a thing that it isn’t.
This game is a grind for the best gear. This games bosses in the living story (replacement for personal story that failed) respawn every few minutes. Nothing you will ever say will change it.
I see it as what it is. Maybe because I am old and I have seen so much before.
Maybe because I work in QA, so I have learnt to see what things are promoted as and what they really are.Maybe it is my super power. I just don’t try too hard to make something a thing that it isn’t.
This game is a grind for the best gear. This games bosses in the living story (replacement for personal story that failed) respawn every few minutes. Nothing you will ever say will change it.
I see it as what it is too, because I’m old and worked part of my life as an editor, and have done alpha testing a quite a few software products (but not games). I have the ability, like most editors, to switch off my preconceptions and just see what’s there.
You’re probably not older than me, you’re probably not more experienced than me, and anyone who “sees things as they are” is wrong. You see things through a filter of your perceptions just like everyone else on the planet.
Anyone who thinks they can see anything completely objectively is fooling themselves.
No, I work through a list that is given to me as a QA in the first step.
I check the list, then I check the product. I see the facts. I evaluate them.
Best gear easy to get for a casual (5h playtime a week). No.
Do content relevant bosses respawn in short time frames. Yes.
“Grinding is no fun, so we do not want people to grind.” statement. False
I don’t care about testing, or editing, I check he hard facts. And in this matter, ANet has failed his own Manifesto.
(edited by Kaiyanwan.8521)
No, I work through a list that is given me as a QA in the first step.
I check the list, then I check the product. I see the facts. I evaluate them.
Best gear easy to get for a casual (5h playtime a week). No.
Do content relevant bosses respawn in short time frames. Yes.
“Grinding is no fun, so we do not want people to grind.” statement. FalseI don’t care about testing, or editing, I check he hard facts. And in this matter, ANet has failed his own Manifesto.
It is still easy. It just takes time. Time != Difficulty.
No, they do not, every single specific boss I have killed in Personal Story stayed dead.
Refers to mandatory grind which does not exist, unless counting playing the game a grind.
A manifesto is still not an absolute truth. It is an intent and a plan.
You also seems to completely ignore the fact that all those things were also clarified upon just a few days after the Manifest and YEARS before you could even buy the game.
You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?
The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
This is a pretty simplified version of reality.
I was going to take the kids to the movies one day. I told the kids I was going to take them to the movies. Then I got a call from work and had to go in. Naturally, my kids were disappointed. Because I told them I was taking them somewhere and couldn’t take them.
Ah, but did you tell them “sorry, something came up” or continued to claim that “the move will be great, you’ll see” while already knowing that they won’t see it? Because so far Anet is definitely not ready to acknowledge there were any significant changes to the original design.
Since this was ignored, I’ll post it again. Because it’s left me a bit confused
1. People who like ascended claim that the power increase is supposedly minor at best.
2. We can’t cap WvW at an exotic gear level because that would invalidate all the “hard work” people put into getting their little pink weapons/armor.
3. Supporters also claim that ascended doesn’t matter in WvW because WvW is balanced around things other than player stats.So if the power increase is “minor at best” and WvW is balanced around things other than player power, then why are you wasting your time grinding these weapons out? Why are you resistant to capping WvW gear at the exotic level?
Actually I agree…I think WvW should be capped at exotic stats. I don’t think that a competitive format of any kind should be influenced by people who have so much more time than money.
But I don’t think it’s a big deal either. It’s clearly a bigger deal if you roam or solo, though.
Sadly, I would prefer to solo/roam as I found it more fun.
You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?
The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
This is a pretty simplified version of reality.
I was going to take the kids to the movies one day. I told the kids I was going to take them to the movies. Then I got a call from work and had to go in. Naturally, my kids were disappointed. Because I told them I was taking them somewhere and couldn’t take them.
Ah, but did you tell them “sorry, something came up” or continued to claim that “the move will be great, you’ll see” while already knowing that they won’t see it? Because so far Anet is definitely not ready to acknowledge there were any significant changes to the original design.
With this community? LMAO!
I don’t think anything they said or did would have helped…though some of the effect might have been mitigated. There are no easy or right ways to deal with that situation. No matter what you do, there’ll be a fall out. Saying the wrong thing or not exactly the right thing is just dangerous.
I’m sure someone took a risk assessment of the situation and decided that saying nothing was better. I’m not sure that they’re right, but they had reasons for not saying things.
Since this was ignored, I’ll post it again. Because it’s left me a bit confused
1. People who like ascended claim that the power increase is supposedly minor at best.
2. We can’t cap WvW at an exotic gear level because that would invalidate all the “hard work” people put into getting their little pink weapons/armor.
3. Supporters also claim that ascended doesn’t matter in WvW because WvW is balanced around things other than player stats.So if the power increase is “minor at best” and WvW is balanced around things other than player power, then why are you wasting your time grinding these weapons out? Why are you resistant to capping WvW gear at the exotic level?
How would do that, though? WvW is linked with the PvE aspect. Do you expect people to carry an exotic set IN ADDITION to the ascended set they’ve built or are building? Would you have expected to have players hold on to their rare gear as they got exotic?
Is it possible to “scale down” ascended gear to exotic stats? Is it possible to “disable” infusions that increase stats when in WvW? What would that entail? Would you be willing for Anet to put new content on hold to program in an entirely new method to scale down ascended gear just for the sake of WvW (which was supposedly never intended to be a level playing field to begin with)?
I mean, I personally don’t see anything wrong with the idea… but I’m not sure the effort needed to make it happen would be worth it.
I think there’s enough posts on how Ascended weapons basically gave you sod all in stats over exotics and it’s just there to keep progressionists busy.
So I’ll throw a different argument. Did it cause more harm than good?
Before Ascebded weapons were added, most world bosses and temples were dead content, people were quitting over having nothing to do, dungeons were unpopular as well.
Before anyone says they could just add cosmetic rewards. Jormag has the Breath of Jormag, SB can drop Spirit Chains etc, and no one ever bothered to kill Jormag.
Funny thing about being on different servers and all…
Before A weapons, world bosses were alive and well, arguably the most populated content on the server. Now, they still are, except for Teq, which is unattended — but that’s a different issue. Interest in temples increased some after guaranteed rares and dropped after Risen changes. It may have increased slightly since A Weps, but only in so far as Lyssa, Melandru and Dwayna are concerned. Grenth and Balth are pretty much dead zones.
The observable server population has neither dropped nor increased notably after spiking up when the LS started coming out more frequently. Dungeons… well, there was more interest in dungeons in my guild before A Weps than there is now. Most dungeon parties are filled via the lfg site or the new lfg interface in game. Ergo, I wonder what you’re basing your assertion that they’ve suddenly become more popular on.
No, I work through a list that is given to me as a QA in the first step.
I check the list, then I check the product. I see the facts. I evaluate them.
Best gear easy to get for a casual (5h playtime a week). No.
Do content relevant bosses respawn in short time frames. Yes.
“Grinding is no fun, so we do not want people to grind.” statement. FalseI don’t care about testing, or editing, I check he hard facts. And in this matter, ANet has failed his own Manifesto.
And I worked as a professional editor. I’m not 100% sure your work in testing makes you more qualified to understand what’s being said in the manifesto than my work as an editor.
You state things as fact that aren’t fact. I’m simply saying it’s a matter of opinion.
I guess it will be for others to decides which of us is more reasonable or more likely correct.
You sound like my lawyer, and I like him.
But I am not testing stuff, I read the results, check ’em, and then I normally send the stuff back and say:
That’s not what has been advertised, if you sell this stuff like it is, you get in trouble.
I remember that anyone could ask for a refund last November. ANet did this for a reason, they probably feared to get sued for false advertisement. Now you could say it was just a generous move towards their customers, but hey, generousity and economy are just not two things that get along together well.
Ah, btw, I also speek three languages fluently (one being an Asian one) and I read lawyer stuff every bloody week. I know the meaning of words and the flexibilty they offer.
This doesn’t make the game less grindy though…
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
Because everything does not always go according to plan.
The Manifesto is as relevant to Anet as the US Constitution is this government.
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
According to some people here, it was easy to understand everything that was being talked about in the Manifesto. And also according to them, everyone followed GW2 like a piranha prior to release and knew everything and everything about the game.
Amusing right?
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
Because everything does not always go according to plan.
You’re right, however the manifesto is 100% out the window
Thats a BIG difference
No, I work through a list that is given to me as a QA in the first step.
I check the list, then I check the product. I see the facts. I evaluate them.
Best gear easy to get for a casual (5h playtime a week). No.
Do content relevant bosses respawn in short time frames. Yes.
“Grinding is no fun, so we do not want people to grind.” statement. FalseI don’t care about testing, or editing, I check he hard facts. And in this matter, ANet has failed his own Manifesto.
The way I see it, my first toon hits level 80, has a good mix of rares and masterwork gear. Levelling was NOT a grind. Now at 80, what content exactly am I shunned from? Can’t think of any except for high level fractals. So, how is it a big grind? Sounds like you’re simply obsessed over acquiring “BiS” gear. The game to me, was certainly not a big grind.
And I can’t believe people still have their minds completely tunnel-visioned on the manifesto.
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
According to some people here, it was easy to understand everything that was being talked about in the Manifesto. And also according to them, everyone followed GW2 like a piranha prior to release and knew everything and everything about the game.
Amusing right?
Oh it sure is. People need to realize that a lot of people that bought the game were new to the Guild Wars franchise. I sure was. I only learned about in August 2012 through another MMO forum, saw the manifesto and thought to myself: “Cool. This seems like a game I would really enjoy!”
I took a break last November due to IRL issues, came back around around 6 weeks ago, and I feel like I’m a sucker who fell for a bait-and-switch.
And I can’t believe people still have their minds completely tunnel-visioned on the manifesto.
It is the topic of this thread, what did you expect to find in here? Of course we are discussing the Manifesto in a topic called “According to the manifesto”.
People…
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