(edited by Gsjlink.4673)
All we really want is actual EndGame content.
@Tanef:
You say that “everyone” wants endgame content.
However, you are not “everyone”, and what you want is not what “everyone” wants.Guild Wars 2 was designed such that you can play all aspects of the game as early as possible. Attaining maximum level is not some kind of “entry pass” for the “really cool stuff”. No, all the cool stuff was already available to you, and you can keep doing that. Instead, you could go for stretch goals (such as world completion, ascended and legendary gear, PvP achievements, new cosmetic skins).
On top of that, ArenaNet continuously develops and adds to the game world. so that more things to do keep springing up. The Living World Season 2 is a good example.However, if you want a game where the “fun parts” are only available to those players who have slogged through all the rest of the game (let’s call these the “unfun parts”), then Guild Wars 2 is not for you. Because Guild Wars 2 is not designed to have “unfun parts”.
You cannot play all aspects of the game “as early as possible”. We can’t touch traits till 30 and now we have to either pony up the gold to buy them or go complete some achievement/kill to get them. You can only get one dungeon at level 30 (STORY MODE ONLY) and even then.. NO ONE goes in dungeons AT level. Everyone goes in at 80, in exotic or better gear. Period. If you even ATTEMPT to go into a dungeon for your level, you’ll likely be kicked. Bad design is bad.
Delvien – d/d Elementalist – Gates of Madness
As one final thing for me to add, all this negative talk against “gear treadmill” of WoW… at least the RNG in WoW isn’t as bad as this game. They have intentionally made the RNG so low in order to push gem sales harder. Case in point: outfits, 10 day sale, bringing back old items to encourage you to buy them….
Delvien – d/d Elementalist – Gates of Madness
To everyone holding out or hoping for hard-mode: Stop. They said they weren’t, and they aren’t. They said it last year, and they said it this year.
If you mention anything like “harder content”, you get assaulted by players who equate it with WoW. Guild Wars 1 had harder content that did not introduce a gear grind. Liadri was also an example of it – although it was solo content, not group. But hey, keep those straw-man arguments a-coming! It is simply disgraceful that this MMO has (almost) nothing to offer players in PvE who have learned how to play the game and still seek challenge.
The most valid argument against harder content isn’t in WoW. It isn’t even in the current dungeon mechanics being a bit meh. It’s in how many players would play it. Majority of people would not. Of the ones that would, you’d have again a majority that would be unable to complete it, since it’s supposed to be hard. Of those people, you’d have a subset that would absolutely fill the forum with complaints about how hard it is.
The people that would be able to complete it? A subset of them would be asking for exponentially better rewards in comparison to everything else, since it’s harder content. Another subset would be asking for exclusive rewards, such as special skins or minis that you can only get by doing that content. Only a small subset of the people who can actually complete it would be happy regardless of the reward.
You don’t need much to realize that the above sounds an awful lot like only a small, downright tiny minority is asking for the content for the sake of the content, with most people using the content as excuse to get better rewards.
As for Liadri: There were quite a lot of people who complained that Liadri was too difficult. There were also people complaining about how beating Liadri was tied to a minipet. There were people who complained that while Liadri had good difficulty, she did not offer sufficient reward to warrant doing after you got the achievements.
What is the point of getting the fully ascended gear?
For Pve Players, besides looking beautiful and the feeling that you did it, it serves no purpose.You will do just fine without ascended gear in the current state. maybe try harder in fracs.
In WoW for example you had to get the best gear because if you didn’t, then you couldn’t do the end game raids…
Im not saying WoW is better, It just gives you this sense of progression while right now Gw2 simply don’t.
Gear treadmills aren’t fun. Guild Wars 1 was a perfectly capable game without having a gear treadmill.
GW2 just falls short because so much time is being put into development only to be scrapped in the process? It’s a lot of waste. The content does inevitably go through are QoL updates. I’m guessing only about 10% of content additions that were on the table before have actually worked their way through the development cycle at ANet.
Of course, I could be wrong, but if the content we’re seeing is the only content they’ve been working on (with 300 employees, mind you) – ANet’s suffering from terrible mismanagement.
Cycle through the threads though…it’s pretty clear:
There’s not enough armor choices and not enough skill/trait diversification in the metagame to make progression optimal.
In GW1, regardless of gear, there was a constant progress through the metagame – from 100b warriors and HH monks to SFway to Imbaway to Ursanway to Terraway and Trenchway. And let’s not forget hero setups from the meager Necroway to Discordway – eventually giving rise to Ineptway, Surgeway, mesmer midline, etc.
There was a kittenload of variations over the years.
GW2 has remained fairly stagnant and builds have very little room to move – what you were comfortable with a year or 2 ago is likely the same build you’re comfortable with now. Sure, part of this could be viewed as a feature to begin going outside of one’s comfort zone – but that require’s a monetary effort that people don’t really want to spend just to attempt something they may or may not like.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
Please Share your thought on this topic. i have created a place to discuss For/against new content.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Discussion-about-New-Content/first#post4350869
there are some good ideas on this thread about new content in forms of
GvE
buffed world bosses and such.
Main: lvl 80 Ranger ,
Alt: lvl 80 Mesmer
Alt: lvl 80 Mesmer
I’ve been playing for about two years now and I’d agree that there isn’t enough end-game content. Sure they may have stated that this game was meant for casual players but they also stated that they wanted to avoid a grind experience in the game and look how well they stuck to that philosophy. From the GW wiki let’s take a look at a good argument for more content:
April 28, 2005 is when GW Prophecies came out.
April 28, 2006 is when GW Factions came out.
October 27, 2006 is when GW Nightfall came out.
August 31st, 2007 is when GW EotN came out.
August 28, 2012 is when GW2 came out.It is now August 30, 2014 and we have had hardly any new and exciting content and there is no sure sign of expansions. Guild Wars 2 has a steady player base and the developers have stated that they are always working on new content for the game.
So what is this content? We’re nearing the point at which GW2 has remained fairly unchanged in the time all of GW1 (and all of its expansions)came out. Living Story, in my opinion, is hardly new content as it has released hardly any new map content, simply reused old places and added way too much on cliche npcs written like a fan-fiction novel more than GW lore. Factions and Nightfall brought new and fresh ideas to the GW lore and LS is trying way too hard to sell itself perhaps as an attempt to get players involved.
Maybe they have been working on expansion, which would be understandable if one pairs their lack of consistent new content with their apparent constant content development. Once again in my opinion, I really do feel they should stop releasing stale content and start consistently releasing new things that people could actually agree on as legitimate new content.
It’s not so much a feeling of entitlement as it is expecting the developers to stick to their own standards of content releasing that they set long before GW2 ever came out. GW2 has been amazingly successful and it’s really sad that it’s been relatively stagnant all this time. Agree or disagree, those are my opinions on the matter. OP has some legitimate reason to be upset.
I understand this is my own personal opinion, but I see the Living Story as a total waste of time. Sure, it adds great new challenging enemies to fight but that’s about the only long-term addition I can see in it. Characters will come and go, skins are just skins, but the improvement in enemy difficulty is a step in the right direction in terms of long-term game development.
GW2 has undoubtedly had a ton of problems, but we’ve been spending the past 2 years eating up small crumbs of content while struggling through their constant adjustments to fix broken content.
Let’s say ANet offered us cookies. They give us a ton of under-cooked cookies. We enjoyed the cookies regardless because it’s a new flavor that we were all eager to try, and we want more. Now, we’ve been waiting two years, eating up the trail of cookie crumbs on the floor of ANet’s well-established bakery, just waiting for them to deliver more cookies. This whole time we’ve been waiting for our order, the bakers have been in the back trying to figure out how to properly bake a cookie instead of giving the customers more delicious cookies.
I’ve always considered making Eternity as my final goal for GW2. I’ll be finished making it soon and then I’ll have no further goals to stay in the game. I’ll get on for a few hours occasionally to see if there are any new developments, but these last 2 years have lowered my expectations of GW2 development to the point that I really don’t have any hope for the game anymore. I was really hoping this was a game that had a direction and one I could stay in for a long time, but I’ve seen most of the friends I made on GW2 sell their accounts (which I don’t support) or simply stop playing for games like Archage Online; I don’t want to be one of those people stuck in the past, and right now it seems that GW2 has no future.
LS isn’t progressive. LS is stalling. Stagnant development.
Thanatos did a beautiful job expressing the opinions of me and many of my GW1 friends share. Quoted for justice!
You don’t need much to realize that the above sounds an awful lot like only a small, downright tiny minority is asking for the content for the sake of the content, with most people using the content as excuse to get better rewards.
As for Liadri: There were quite a lot of people who complained that Liadri was too difficult. There were also people complaining about how beating Liadri was tied to a minipet. There were people who complained that while Liadri had good difficulty, she did not offer sufficient reward to warrant doing after you got the achievements.
It wasn’t a small minority of players that beat Liadri. I remember there was hype that only 5 players beat Liadri in their internal playtest, and on live this fact was mocked openly due to how many accomplished it. It’s the same as it’s been in every game. The more time that passes, the easiest content seems to be as players become more adjusted and practiced to it.
There’s a difference between asking for soul-crushingly difficult content, and asking for content that requires some marginal effort to win.
This game isn’t designed for people who want the “old style” end game content. I thought that was clear way before launch. This game is designed for people who don’t.
I’d like to grind for skins, but unfortunately I’ve obtained the skins I like already.
Define End Game content. I see a lot of player throw this word out there without really knowing what they want. Or simply the fact that they want raiding. We aren’t going to get traditional raiding ever. That doesn’t mean we can’t have or get tough content. It’s been getting better in my opinion. Perhaps it’s not on the level some players would like, and I would agree it’s still a bit lack luster. However I have seen a change for the better, and I am hopeful we will continue to see this change.
It’s important to remember that what might be easy for you (not any person in particular-just generally) might be really difficult for others. That sort of balance is really hard to get right. Giving enemies one shot abilities is a poor way to balance this. Adding interesting mechanics is more along the correct way to go about this. Just my opinion
Define End Game content. I see a lot of player throw this word out there without really knowing what they want.
I just want something with a lot of replay value that won’t get boring quickly. This, I guess, is not easy to do, though. But several sets of new content with different objectives and rewards that are worth repeating would yield good results, I think. Variety is key to maintaining interest.
I don’t think it would have to be hard, either. Now, it would have to have the option of being hard, or veteran players will find no pleasure in it, but it can’t be too hard to come up with a scaling system, not unlike Fractals (but perhaps a bit more involved, and more noticeable earlier), to satisfy all levels of players.
Also, some more Fractals would be nice, too.
“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs
Define End Game content.
I believe the traditional mmorpg understanding of endgame means raid dungeons/raid encounters. I’m sure spvp or wvw can be seen as endgame in the sense that pve has been “exhausted.” And vice verse for pvp players. I get that a lot of people are not particularly good at guild wars 2 (and perhaps games in general.) I also realize that these are the people that most likely give you the green, so you have to cater to them, or you close.
Balancing is the tough part. That’s why I never understood why open world encounters like Tequatl and Wurm are there. I realize it is far cheaper to produce that type of content than specialized raids geared towards tight groups of good players (even though you could always maintain some sort of difficulty switch.) It’s just an entirely different kind of flying, altogether!
its rly annoying to read allways the same stupid response in all threads
ENDGAME dont need to be a geartreadmill
ENDGAME is what people can do after they lvled to max level without getting bored. And an important tool for this is PROGRESS
PROGRESS can be the fractal lvls – good start from arenanet but no supourt and not enough work on it so too much time now and people bored with this
- would be no problem to add 10 lvl more every 3 months or something with much harder fractals
PROGRESS could be the LIADRI Arena as solo content – People loved it and they even said they will work on this and bring more – but NOTHING
PROGRESS could be something like this wxp system they added for wvw but for PVE
PROGRESS could be counting the lvls i get after lvl 80 on my character and give special title all 1000 lvls or higher or something rly cool like different spell colours
PROGRESS can be alot more and it dont need a kitten geartreadmill
So you already have got ascended armors and weapons on all your characters? Sounds nice eh?
If you don’t, then you don’t have all maxed armors and weapons and also, if “you don’t care about ascended things” it’s not a problem of the game.
No, we don’t care about mindless zerg PvE where you stand and spam autoattack at some big sack of HP, which is what dragonite ores are all about.
I’ve been playing for about two years now and I’d agree that there isn’t enough end-game content. Sure they may have stated that this game was meant for casual players but they also stated that they wanted to avoid a grind experience in the game and look how well they stuck to that philosophy. From the GW wiki let’s take a look at a good argument for more content:
April 28, 2005 is when GW Prophecies came out.
April 28, 2006 is when GW Factions came out.
October 27, 2006 is when GW Nightfall came out.
August 31st, 2007 is when GW EotN came out.
August 28, 2012 is when GW2 came out.It is now August 30, 2014 and we have had hardly any new and exciting content and there is no sure sign of expansions. Guild Wars 2 has a steady player base and the developers have stated that they are always working on new content for the game.
So what is this content? We’re nearing the point at which GW2 has remained fairly unchanged in the time all of GW1 (and all of its expansions)came out. Living Story, in my opinion, is hardly new content as it has released hardly any new map content, simply reused old places and added way too much on cliche npcs written like a fan-fiction novel more than GW lore. Factions and Nightfall brought new and fresh ideas to the GW lore and LS is trying way too hard to sell itself perhaps as an attempt to get players involved.
Maybe they have been working on expansion, which would be understandable if one pairs their lack of consistent new content with their apparent constant content development. Once again in my opinion, I really do feel they should stop releasing stale content and start consistently releasing new things that people could actually agree on as legitimate new content.
It’s not so much a feeling of entitlement as it is expecting the developers to stick to their own standards of content releasing that they set long before GW2 ever came out. GW2 has been amazingly successful and it’s really sad that it’s been relatively stagnant all this time. Agree or disagree, those are my opinions on the matter. OP has some legitimate reason to be upset.
Your opinions are noted.. not necessarily shared, but noted… although I am sure the OP is referring to lack of endgame.. … expansions don’t mean endgame.. they mean, errmmm.. expansion. – new skills, races, mechanics, maps etc etc.. the upcoming feature pack along with LS perma content is an expansion when added up over say 3moinths.. but it may not be the kind of things you personally want to see in an expansion, but that will happen no matter how content expansion is brought into the game.
Added to that we just don’t know yet what is coming later this year, what is being planned to be worked on further into the games life, heck we don’t fully know what’s coming next month yet.
However, it does not get around the fact that GW2 is not really about endgame or gear grinding.. .. what grinds they have in the game are totally optional and not required to be able to complete a dungeon or a world boss or WvW or PvE… that’s a choice thing only you can make in game. The only thing that becomes absolutely necessary is Ascended gear with A/R slot for higher level Fracs.. and that content facet is.. optional
Let’s be honest many things in any MMO can be can be considered a grind depending on how you personally look at it – XP, loot, coin, gear, cosmetics, crafting, achievements etc, etc.. even endgame can be considered a grind depending on one’s view of the game.
No, its not. You can complain on the forums without installing the game.
Just wanted to point that out.
“Geartreadmill” in Gw2 called Skintreadmill.
Its been the carrot on the stick for me to do fractals everyday.
And nearly everyone only does it for the rewards
There’s nothing wrong with OP’s point of view: they want the end-game content they are used to (and they enjoy). Fortunately for them, a lot of games offer that sort of thing.
GW2 offers a different sort of content, which is fortunate for those of us who enjoy this type of thing.
It’s like arguing about whether the new Italian place should offer Pizza: there’s already a pizza joint on the corner, so maybe it’s good that the new only offers non-starchy dishes.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
its rly annoying to read allways the same stupid response in all threads
ENDGAME dont need to be a geartreadmill
ENDGAME is what people can do after they lvled to max level without getting bored. And an important tool for this is PROGRESS
PROGRESS can be the fractal lvls – good start from arenanet but no supourt and not enough work on it so too much time now and people bored with this
- would be no problem to add 10 lvl more every 3 months or something with much harder fractals
PROGRESS could be the LIADRI Arena as solo content – People loved it and they even said they will work on this and bring more – but NOTHING
PROGRESS could be something like this wxp system they added for wvw but for PVE
PROGRESS could be counting the lvls i get after lvl 80 on my character and give special title all 1000 lvls or higher or something rly cool like different spell colours
PROGRESS can be alot more and it dont need a kitten geartreadmill
Thank you for saying this. Levelling is so fast in this game that you’d really expect there to be more focus on content suitable for level 80 characters.
Unfortunately, the bulk of GW2’s endgame is in the gem store. This can be changed ever so slightly to add some depth to existing content. Nothing too fancy, just buff some of the existing content, put a few interesting items out there in the world and tone the RNG down to the appropriate minimum.
<snip>
ENDGAME is what people can do after they lvled to max level without getting bored. And an important tool for this is PROGRESS
<snip>
You were intended to do at level 80, what you were doing the whole time that you leveled, with the exception of leveling another character, doing something all together different, or achievement hunting. If you did not enjoy the leveling process, and only played to get to max level to start getting to the “good” stuff, you had the wrong expectations for this game.
This game has very little in the way of the “carrot on a stick” approach, as most everything in this game is easily attainable by almost everyone. The things to do in this game are to do because you want to, or because you enjoy them. When you don’t anymore, you stop playing.
Also to add, that this game is intended to be inclusive, not exclusive. It tries to include as many people as possible into as many features and functions of the game, and exclude from as few as possible.
(edited by Fatalyz.7168)
You were intended to do at level 80, what you were doing the whole time that you leveled, with the exception of leveling another character, doing something all together different, or achievement hunting. If you did not enjoy the leveling process, and only played to get to max level to start getting to the “good” stuff, you had the wrong expectations for this game.
That doesn’t make a lot of sense. 1-80 is basically just exploring and doing events as you run into them. Maybe some WvW and PvP if you’re that way inclined. Level 80 content is more along the lines of dungeons, fractals and cosmetic progression.
I don’t like the way the word ‘intended’ is used in these forums. kitten what anyone thought was a good idea at the time of development, as players we get to suggest otherwise if it’s not to our liking.
The maps in guild wars 2 do feel a bit bigger than their counterparts in gw1, But we are still missing so many areas that were in gw1. Rest of maguuma, Rest of eotn areas, Crystal desert, Ring of fire isles, All of Cantha, All of elona. How was the gw1 dev team able to pump out new maps/content so fast? The gw2 dev team is bigger so you would think they could bring out maps/content much faster than the gw1 team, I would love to know what they do in the office all day.
Lets remember GW1 was almost all private instances. Only part of GW1 that was “open world” was city hubs. That affects development.
And GW 2 had more content at launch than all three games. The last two years are content fixes, because the game launched way too early.
-only 1/10 the amount of armors (could be less)
-only 80% of tyria playable, let alone elona and cantha
-just about 1/10 of the skills available per profession
-8 professions instead of 10
-5 dance emotes instead of 10
-no henchmen nor any hero
-more gear based
-poor story writing
-no normal missions
-no typical GW quests
-no tactics in battle needed
-dungeons incorrectly scaled
and the list go’s on, i am 100% positive GW1 has way more content within 2 years then GW2.
in fact, GW1 is by many players still seen as superior, the simple reason is because everything is simple yet filled with content.
The maps in guild wars 2 do feel a bit bigger than their counterparts in gw1, But we are still missing so many areas that were in gw1. Rest of maguuma, Rest of eotn areas, Crystal desert, Ring of fire isles, All of Cantha, All of elona. How was the gw1 dev team able to pump out new maps/content so fast? The gw2 dev team is bigger so you would think they could bring out maps/content much faster than the gw1 team, I would love to know what they do in the office all day.
Lets remember GW1 was almost all private instances. Only part of GW1 that was “open world” was city hubs. That affects development.
And GW 2 had more content at launch than all three games. The last two years are content fixes, because the game launched way too early.
-only 1/10 the amount of armors (could be less)
-only 80% of tyria playable, let alone elona and cantha
-just about 1/10 of the skills available per profession
-8 professions instead of 10
-5 dance emotes instead of 10
-no henchmen nor any hero
-more gear based
-poor story writing
-no normal missions
-no typical GW quests
-no tactics in battle needed
-dungeons incorrectly scaledand the list go’s on, i am 100% positive GW1 has way more content within 2 years then GW2.
in fact, GW1 is by many players still seen as superior, the simple reason is because everything is simple yet filled with content.
You are way off in the deep end of wrong on armors and skills.
(edited by Chrispy.5641)
And GW 2 had more content at launch than all three games. The last two years are content fixes, because the game launched way too early.
?????????
I assume you never played GW1 ?
This and incredible lie
Alone the skill set you can choose from and the heros around you creates more
tutorial content in GW1 than the whole game GW2 offers after 2 years.
Not to mention the size of the maps and the story telling.
GW2 isn’t even close to GW1……
and the way they are going is rather increasing the gap not closing it.
If it comes to quality GW2 has almost nothing to offer.
The storys are lame and so uncreative you feel insulted by it.
Being stuck with 5 skills where 4 are useless is taking the whole fun of build creating out of the game. Having zerker only prooves it.
Having no need for any game plan plays into the young kids of these days who are happy to just push #2 button constantly and win the world.
There is so much wrong with GW2 and the only things A-Net gives us is cosmetics like wardrobes or multi color commander tags…..
Even as casual player like me you come to a point when you ask yourself… what am i actually doing here ??? This is something that never happened in GW1
(edited by Kurrilino.2706)
They just need to get a little more creative
End game could be hunting alternate weapon abilities and slot skills that aren’t any powerful than our current ones but open up alternate builds
Could be sand box stuff like building houses and outposts, bounty system in a few pvp enabled zones or making trade routes and trade missions, boat building and fleshing out caravans more… look at Archeage and EQ next there is some good ideas in there they could jack.
None of this would increase gear grind or power creep but it would give us something to do.
I’m sorry, but I actually disagree with the assertions made in the initial post. That is, that there is no end game in Guild Wars 2.
It’s true, there is no “end game” PvE content, but the PvP/WvW competitive content does exist. And much like in a First-Person Shooter, a Real-Time Strategy game, or one of those weird MOBA games, competitive play is the end game.
The build variety and complexity in GW2 is fantastic, and it lends itself really well to group building and high-level strategic play. At the same time, the movement mechanics and the way combat operates mean that moment-to-moment play against other players has the potential to be very exiting.
I have been playing Counter Strike on and off since 1999/2000, and I still play it today – and many of the maps I play on are still the ones that existed at the time (Aztec and Dust II), it is one of the better shooters out there, and competitive play is the end game.
In the same way, I have been playing GW2 since a week or two after launch, and I have been playing it on and off. I find the most challenging stuff I do to be PvP. And since there is no subscription fee, I don’t feel that the fact I only play one week a month to be a negative.
The maps in guild wars 2 do feel a bit bigger than their counterparts in gw1, But we are still missing so many areas that were in gw1. Rest of maguuma, Rest of eotn areas, Crystal desert, Ring of fire isles, All of Cantha, All of elona. How was the gw1 dev team able to pump out new maps/content so fast? The gw2 dev team is bigger so you would think they could bring out maps/content much faster than the gw1 team, I would love to know what they do in the office all day.
Lets remember GW1 was almost all private instances. Only part of GW1 that was “open world” was city hubs. That affects development.
And GW 2 had more content at launch than all three games. The last two years are content fixes, because the game launched way too early.
-only 1/10 the amount of armors (could be less)
-only 80% of tyria playable, let alone elona and cantha
-just about 1/10 of the skills available per profession
-8 professions instead of 10
-5 dance emotes instead of 10
-no henchmen nor any hero
-more gear based
-poor story writing
-no normal missions
-no typical GW quests
-no tactics in battle needed
-dungeons incorrectly scaledand the list go’s on, i am 100% positive GW1 has way more content within 2 years then GW2.
in fact, GW1 is by many players still seen as superior, the simple reason is because everything is simple yet filled with content.
LMAO! Bad memory much.
You can look up, easily the amount of content in Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 had far less armor than Guild Wars 2. That’s not a theory, it’s a fact, but it’s particularly a fact because in Guild Wars 1, all you had was max level armors. You couldn’t reskin them. All Guild Wars 2 skins become possible sources of armor, due to transmutation. Guild Wars 2 has roughly 30% more available skins at max level than Guild Wars 1 did. I’ve done the math in other threads.
Prophecies had less than 300 quests and 25 missions. Factions had less than 300 quests and 13 missions. Nightfall had less than 300 quests and 20 missions. Guild Wars 2 launched with 300 hearts, 1500 dynamic events, and 32 dungeon paths. You didn’t even get dungeons until Eye of the North. If you want to check the number of quests in each of the Guild Wars 1 titles, they’re listed quite clearly in the Guild Wars 1 wiki.
Guild Wars 2 has five starter areas with five races. We haven’t added in the personal story quests, which are myriad. We haven’t added in jumping puzzles, which Guild Wars 1 didn’t have.
The only real thing Guild Wars 1 was ahead in was PvP. In PvE there is far far more content in Guild Wars 2. It’s not a theory. It’s a fact.
Also in Guild Wars 1, the content was pathed, which meant you couldn’t access a good portion of the zones you could enter. You just went around down corridors.
There was no underwater combat at all, so all underwater areas were off limits to you.
Guild Wars 1 did eventually have more classes, but it had less races. So if you add classes and races together in Guild Wars 2 you get 13….you get 11 in Guild Wars 1.
Guild Wars 1 definitely had more skills, though. But not more content. Not even close.
Edit: I should also point out that each character had access to even less armor, because if you were a necro you could only wear necro armor, which was pretty limiting. There were 35 armor sets total that a necro could wear.
I’m pretty sure my necro in Guild Wars 2 has far far more choices.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
And GW 2 had more content at launch than all three games. The last two years are content fixes, because the game launched way too early.
?????????
I assume you never played GW1 ?
This and incredible lie
Alone the skill set you can choose from and the heros around you creates more
tutorial content in GW1 than the whole game GW2 offers after 2 years.
Not to mention the size of the maps and the story telling.GW2 isn’t even close to GW1……
and the way they are going is rather increasing the gap not closing it.If it comes to quality GW2 has almost nothing to offer.
The storys are lame and so uncreative you feel insulted by it.
Being stuck with 5 skills where 4 are useless is taking the whole fun of build creating out of the game. Having zerker only prooves it.
Having no need for any game plan plays into the young kids of these days who are happy to just push #2 button constantly and win the world.There is so much wrong with GW2 and the only things A-Net gives us is cosmetics like wardrobes or multi color commander tags…..
Even as casual player like me you come to a point when you ask yourself… what am i actually doing here ??? This is something that never happened in GW1
I answered this elsewhere, in the thread so I won’t repeat it again,. but saying something I said is a lie without data to back it up doesn’t bode well for anyone taking what you have to say seriously.
Guild Wars 1 had a total of less than 1200 quests even in including Eye of the North. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events and events have been added since then. And 300 hearts. And more personal story instances than there were missions in all three games. And 32 dungeon paths.
Guild Wars 1 had more skills and more PvP types. That’s all it had.
Edit: I have 50/50 in my Hall of Monuments and the GWAMM title and can almost guarantee I have more hours logged in Guild Wars 1 than you do.
…some argued that Cursed Shore zone was end game, and Anet’s nerf team hit it with the nerf bat several times over to make sure the zone was a ghost town.
This points directly at the source of the problem, which originated before the lack of new content: there is a mismanagement of the content that is already there. Cursed Shore was the highest level area where you could get T6 mats and kill champions. They’ve nerfed all events and loot there so bad that I haven’t gone back in almost a year.
May we remind Anet that in the early days of GW2 Cursed Shore was looked upon as the highest level area to hang out in until the fan-anticipated release of the Ring of Fire (as downloadable content)? Now Curse Shore is a place you go to do jumping puzzles and farm ancient wood logs. Yes, the Boss events still exist (Melandru and Genth), but the area in which those events take place is a useless wasteland of kittenty loot.
I hope that Anet has something big in store they will reveal soon. With over 300 employees they gotta have something big cooking.
However, new content can still be mismanaged: Look at Edge of the Mist.
It is breathtaking content, amazing design and PvE bosses in a WvW setting. Yet they didn’t succeed at implementing it in the PPT rotation properly (or didn’t try), and it derailed completely from it’s objective and became the game-breaking karma train it is today.
Let’s hope they learned from their mistakes; there is much unexploited potential in GW2.
There is actual endgame (oh how I hate that word) content. That it’s not the type of content you want is not relevant.
[Tarnished Coast] Lizzibeth Huffles, Asuran Genius (Engineer) at Play
There is actual endgame (oh how I hate that word) content. That it’s not the type of content you want is not relevant.
Well, it’s relevant in the sense that what’s there isn’t what some players are looking for out of the game they are playing. That, in and of itself it perfectly fine to voice.
It goes too far when those same players try to claim there is NO endgame, though.
Everytime I see a thread about someone who wishes for more endgame content, I also see him getting torn apart from people basically saying:
- “you have no right to demand more content because I am fine with the content”
- “gw2 never promised the things you are asking for”
- “if you still demand some kind of content that I have no need for, then you´re playing the wrong game”.
Besides the fact that I personally understand that some people don´t want to see their beloved game getting changed in some way, it´s also my opinion that:
If you can´t accept or tolerate the wishes from other players (in this case for more “endgame content”) and react in every discussion with killer arguments, then I think YOU are also playing the wrong game. It´s a multiplayer game and this doesn´t go well along with antisocial behavior.
So if you´re saying “wish for more endgame content → go play wow”, then I say “not accepting or tolerating other peoples opinions or wishes → go play a singleplayer game”!
I´m not just referring to this thread, you can see discussions held in this manner all over the forum.
Wardrobe is endgame. Fact.
Based on wiki content, GW2 today has at least 50% more content than all of GW1. GW1 wiki has 21,400 articles and GW2 wiki has 32,400 articles.
I say “at least 50%” because GW1 wiki has near enough to 100% coverage of all content, while GW2 wiki is still missing articles on NPCs, some events, and a lot of gear. Further, GW1 wiki’s article total also covers a historical content, guilds, and a number of guides. In other words, 21k probably over-represents GW1 content and 32k probably under-represents GW2 content.
Obviously, there are plenty of other ways to measure and compare content, but I think it’s reasonable to conclude that there’s a lot of stuff in GW2.
Since we’re consumers (as well as players), it’s not surprising that we want even more content. Most games coming out these days offer a lot of content initially and offer more along the way. I think the issue that some people have is that they are used to that “more” including traditional things like dungeons, new races, and new professions.
And ANet has pretty much said, “we’re not offering the traditional — we’re trying something new.” That doesn’t mean people can’t want it or ask for it, but I do think that means we’re unlikely to see it and so I prefer that we instead focus our energies influencing what ANet is likely to deliver.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Everytime I see a thread about someone who wishes for more endgame content, I also see him getting torn apart from people basically saying:
- “you have no right to demand more content because I am fine with the content”
- “gw2 never promised the things you are asking for”
- “if you still demand some kind of content that I have no need for, then you´re playing the wrong game”.Besides the fact that I personally understand that some people don´t want to see their beloved game getting changed in some way, it´s also my opinion that:
If you can´t accept or tolerate the wishes from other players (in this case for more “endgame content”) and react in every discussion with killer arguments, then I think YOU are also playing the wrong game. It´s a multiplayer game and this doesn´t go well along with antisocial behavior.
So if you´re saying “wish for more endgame content -> go play wow”, then I say “not accepting or tolerating other peoples opinions or wishes -> go play a singleplayer game”!
I´m not just referring to this thread, you can see discussions held in this manner all over the forum.
The problem itself is really the word end game. Most people use it to mean really challenging stuff to do when you get to the other stuff.
My objection to it is based on my understanding of what end game is generally speaking. It’s almost impossible to talk about end game without talking about really hard stuff.
But I think, this is just my belief, that most players don’t do really hard stuff unless there are really big rewards attached to that hard stuff. Now that’s where my problem begins.
You end up with a two class system, of have and have nots. That’s generally problematical for me. The better loot means players would be psychologically pressured to do the stuff that is out of their comfort zone or just not enjoyable.
Poeple are actually asking for better loot too, for doing hard stuff. That’s the excuse that a perfectly good dungeon, TA aetherpath isn’t done more often. Anet made some harder content that didn’t particularly get better rewards, it got some unique rewards, and people didn’t want to run it because it wasn’t fast.
Anet put a lot of time and energy into making that and who uses it? I’d wager it’s a very small percentage of the population.
So what if Anet makes all this really hard stuff at the expense of the bulk of the population and then the people it’s made for don’t use it anyway?
Because that’s what happened with EotM and Aetherpath. They made content for people complaining and you know what it changed?
Not a kitten ed thing. Nothing. That’s what it changed. WvW are still saying they got nothing, dungeon runners are saying they get nothing.
I’m not so sure I’d want to put more work into making stuff for those specific groups. Seems to me a waste of resources.
I didnt want do comment the demand itself, only the reactions people get.
If someone asks for a new playable race, he mostly gets the same answers: “I dont want it, therefor the devs shouldnt work on it.” And thats exactly what bothers me. It´s just egoistic. It doesn´t matter whats the core of the wish, it´s the way people verbally attack these guys.
Same as the OP should have written “All I really want…”, same should be the responses: “I don´t need…” and not “We don´t need, the game isnt like that, go play something else”.
Don’t bother asking for a worthy end game content for GW2. Why?
1) GW2 does not seem to grasp the concept
2) The White Knights, who, no matter what, will always blindfoldedly say everything is fine
Give it a lil bit more time, otherwise AA starts in a weeks time, and two other games start early next year. It’s not like you are locked into something you honestly dislike or lost faith in.
Cheer up.
Three 80-lvl Rangers. Why? ‘Cos they’re that cool.
I didnt want do comment the demand itself, only the reactions people get.
If someone asks for a new playable race, he mostly gets the same answers: “I dont want it, therefor the devs shouldnt work on it.” And thats exactly what bothers me. It´s just egoistic. It doesn´t matter whats the core of the wish, it´s the way people verbally attack these guys.
Same as the OP should have written “All I really want…”, same should be the responses: “I don´t need…” and not “We don´t need, the game isnt like that, go play something else”.
I’d love a new playable race. Absolutely love one. I’d love a new profession. But to most people that doesn’t translate to end game content. It’s just content.
Call me a white knight if you will, but I’d like to be called content with what I got. I just make up my own endgame as I go. As for what I have in mind…. I don’t even know. And I like to keep it that way. Makes the game last all the more longer.
Besides, as far as end-game is concerned, we do have PvP, WvW, Achievement hunting, World Completion, Legendary Weapon Creation, Explorable Dungeons to play past the story ones. Exactly what IS end-game content to you guys anyway?
FOR SKYRIM!!!!!
(edited by Malkavian.4516)
I think that what everyone is Really looking for is either an Expansion or/ and some actual end game content like Rides, bosses etc for veteran – non pvp – players to do.
Seriously, think about it. That’s probably the only thing that keeps WOW alive today so you can’t say that it’s not worth it or that people don’t like it.
I have thought about it and my thoughts on it is this: the reason WoW is alive to this day, and other MMOs for that matter is the community itself. If you grind for gear, it’s naturally going to be fun playing with others be it as a party or as a guild as it’s most likely a chore to do it alone. And why does this game have to be WoW to stay alive in the first place? There are other less popular MMOs in the world that remained alive longer than WoW ever did and they still remained standing. And there is also the fact that you bought the game assuming you’d be playing WoW with a different paint-job, which probably leads to your disappointment and desire to leave.
I too desire an expansion much like a lot of users here and I am confident it will come in the future. I got all the time in the world to see that realized. But for that to happen, the expansion must have features that the core game could not provide through free updates (obviously) and to pull that off, it takes time.
Oh and you mispelled “raids”
FOR SKYRIM!!!!!
So you already have got ascended armors and weapons on all your characters? Sounds nice eh?
If you don’t, then you don’t have all maxed armors and weapons and also, if “you don’t care about ascended things” it’s not a problem of the game.
Gear is only the reward.. it needs a path to get to it.
If that path is too worn out, it becomes a mundane task that is repeatedly used.
Some people say that competive part of gw2 is end-game , thank god pvp/www dont have any updates . No there is no endgame/late game/lvl80 game /max lvl game call it how you want but it is true there is no content which would keep you and keep yealing at you "you have to play , you have to ". And pls dont tell me crap like endgame is what you create(my favourite) , you can say something like that in every game EVERY :mmo,fps just every game .
-there is nothing to do ? did you try leveling your char to 80 without killing just resing ? see how big content for 1000+ hours you have ?
nope sry if you guys see fun in repeating content where you stand in massive blob pressing 1 good for you . Same dungs broken zerker mechanic,running from one corner to another , just sad . Why we dont have bosses like liadri which requires tactic(somebody kitting mobs,somebody using canon anything ) nope lets faceroll our keyboard till boss dies .
Based on wiki content, GW2 today has at least 50% more content than all of GW1. GW1 wiki has 21,400 articles and GW2 wiki has 32,400 articles.
It’s not the amount of content. GW1 had less content than GW2, but had a lot more skill choices to choose from and didn’t have a narrow margin endgame. Minmaxing was a pointless endeavor in GW1 (really, it shaved little to no time off of SCs) and there was such a plethora of n-ways and different farms to be utilized from DoASC, UWSC, FoWSC, MQSC, MTSC, BGSC, SoOSC, Kath, Urgoz, Deep…
They had a lot of different ways to approach the game. Maybe you didn’t like trifling with terraway in UWSC but you liked trenchway in DoASC.
In GW1 it’s pretty dynamic.
GW2 is quite static.
It’s not the amount of content, but the applicability of content. I’m still sure people would enjoy playing more if they added some skills and traits and expanded the metagame – people would actually be able to run different things and experience their game more.
In GW1, I can’t count the number of builds I’ve used over the years – and those were only the builds I was interested in.
In GW2? Yeah, I’ve used 3 builds.
Based on wiki content, GW2 today has at least 50% more content than all of GW1. GW1 wiki has 21,400 articles and GW2 wiki has 32,400 articles.
It’s not the amount of content. GW1 had less content than GW2, but had a lot more skill choices to choose from and didn’t have a narrow margin endgame. Minmaxing was a pointless endeavor in GW1 (really, it shaved little to no time off of SCs) and there was such a plethora of n-ways and different farms to be utilized from DoASC, UWSC, FoWSC, MQSC, MTSC, BGSC, SoOSC, Kath, Urgoz, Deep…
They had a lot of different ways to approach the game. Maybe you didn’t like trifling with terraway in UWSC but you liked trenchway in DoASC.
In GW1 it’s pretty dynamic.
GW2 is quite static.
It’s not the amount of content, but the applicability of content. I’m still sure people would enjoy playing more if they added some skills and traits and expanded the metagame – people would actually be able to run different things and experience their game more.
In GW1, I can’t count the number of builds I’ve used over the years – and those were only the builds I was interested in.
In GW2? Yeah, I’ve used 3 builds.
See, this is where we get style preference involved.
There 100% were more builds in Guild Wars 1. No one can question that. The amount of builds were Guild Wars 1’s greatest strength…and it’s biggest weakness.
It meant many people ran around with crap builds, couldn’t play the game at all and left very quickly. I meant that crazy meta builds that were much more OP than anything in this game. Ursan, Permansin, Imbagon, Sabway, dual 600 monks, 55 monk. Fun for some people but no one should be able to solo farm the underworld and if you can, there’s a problem.
This game is different because Anet knew that many people didn’t like Build Wars, even though I personally loved it.
But a lot of people, many I know personally, couldn’t make a build to save their lives and ended up hating Guild Wars 1.
@sorudo.9054
Totally disingenuous to compare hearts to quests. Hearts aren’t quests. DEs are quests. That means at launch, AT LAUNCH, Guild Wars 2 had more QUESTS than Guild Wars 1 did for it’s entire existence.
If you count end game armor pieces in Guild Wars 1, it’s easy enough to do, there’s still more armor available in Guild Wars 2.
Guild Wars 1 had more skills. Guild Wars 1 had more PvP styles. Guild Wars 1 at two years had more professions. But that’s not the same as having more content.
Unless you consider the 16 dungeons added in Eye of the North to be more than Fractals and all 33 dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.
And you know, some of those quests in Guild Wars 1 were quests like you know, breadcrumb quests, which counted as quests. Tutorial quests which counted as quests. Move the honeycomb so the bees follow it which counted as quests.
I get that you’re massively in love with Guild Wars 1. It had less content, period.
And comparing the "pathing in Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2 is ridiculous. In most places in Guild wars 2 you can wander pretty much anywhere you want. Climb hills. You don’t walk into a log and have to turn around.
I can and have finished all 4 Guild Wars 1 games with new character in a 1 week period, beginning to end. Hell you can beat Factions in a day.
It’s great if you want to continue comparing GW1 to GW2, but they are different games and ANet had different goals for each. There’s no guarantee that people who liked GW1 are going to like GW2.
The point is that ANet has been clear from the beginning that they are trying something different from the standard MMO. And people who like the familiar are going to be disappointed.
In the end, no one cares if GW2 has “more,” people care about if the content that is there is fun …for them. Clearly ANet is betting that what it delivers is fun enough for a million plus people without offering the traditional. (Although they have a funny way of letting people know what makes this game great, in their opinion.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
But the OP is clearly asked for a very specific kind of end game. That’s why people are responding the way they are.
Well to be fair, you reacted to my post the same way, even if I didn’t clearly specify a specific kind of end game. And I clearly wrote that the topic was not a rant about the feature pack itself.
It’s just that you people get irritated as soon as someone suggests some kind of change, expresses his worries and dislikes about the game. We get it – you like the game. We like it too, that’s why we are posting here. Or do you think we post here because we want to get flamed to hell and considered idiots by your part of the community? – We’re all here to make the game better, not to make it worse, because in the end, what’s important is that everyone who’s playing would be happy. Not just a specific group of people – and that’s what you said.
Saying “go play another game if you’re expecting endgame content” is as arrogant as the OPs first message. It’s not your place to say that.
ANET said that gw2 won’t have a traditional endgame, but that doesn’t mean it won’t have updates with features and content to upgrade their current endgame (even if it starts with level 2)
“An MMO must deliver content at three distinct stages: the early game, which is the first twenty hours, the mid game, which is the first few hundred hours, and the late game, which is at a thousand hours and beyond. Each of these stages represents a chance for your game to continue to grow, or to decline and ultimately fail”
Anet, 2007
It all comes down to the most simple statement.
Every mmorpg needs to deliver updates that give all players more things to do ingame.
Without it, players will start to leave. As much as the LS IS some sort of late game content, it’s not repeatable to such extend to offer players different ways to waste more than a few hours of their time in game.
And yes, it might be our fault that we’re starting to get bored. However, it won’t be our fault if GW2 will get the infamous reputation of a stagnant game and players won’t even bother joining. Players already started to leave. Players that were promoting how good the game was when a person asked if it’s still worth buying this game.
You have a guild, right? so here’s a guild leader to a guild leader opinion about this matter, and something every single guild leader is struggling with.
I was playing on Gandara for more than a year and then switched to TC.
Both on Gandara and on TC I have to constantly recruit new players, because other members logged off and never returned again.
Now, on TC, I can actually check their offline time. And let’s just say that it’s not nice to see almost half of the guild that was once enjoying the game being offline for more than 3 months..
Something should be done about it – I really hope that the feature pack will also bring something to make players come back and enjoy the game again, same as when the wardrobe system was implemented. Remember how many players were ingame at that time? It was awesome and really nice to see such an amount of players in game again!
Fresh blood is definitely needed.. but sadly, old players won’t come back just by bringing new players in.
Can’t we just all calm down and for once try to understand both sides?
We are part of the same coin after.
I am all for changes myself, but as with too much preservation would cause stagnation, changing too much would lose a game’s identity as an MMO, which I admit that’s what I fear the most.
FOR SKYRIM!!!!!
hear! hear!
I log back into the game every once in awhile in hopes to enjoy playing, but I find myself wanting more to do. Grinding my butt off for a legendary isn’t my cup of tea. This game has potential, it needs to tap into that potential and offer a real endgame. Maybe then we will see a rising population instead of a declining one.
1500 dynamic events
Where are these extra 1093 dynamic events I don’t know about? lol
I think there are more than what is in those lists. They are not fun and so unpopular that Anet admittedly gave up on spending time adding more to the game.
Ever hear of quality over quantity? Example: Remember the exciting, epic battle you had with Zhaitan? You know, the main antagonist of the game?
Oops.
(edited by Nokaru.7831)