Guild Wars 2

A R W E N.6895:

Jski.6180:

@ A R W E N.6895

I want to ask you in GW2 how many times did you look up where to go and how to do something? How often did you pure solo it?
Now take how you played GW1 how often did you look up how to do things and how often did you solo things?

I am trying to get at is that in a way of having too much info at your hands makes things less fun you out right need to forces your self into not looking on fourms or community web pages to try to work things out for your self to have the fullest fun.

Just images when mmorpg first came out it was all world of month well IM you made your own maps you had to work out what needed to be done on the spot. We have all the info on how to beat something with in hr of new content coming out the first time is fun and is great but once we work out the “best” way of doing things it becomes a grind.

I truly think this is the “WoW” effect to be the first to be the best it has comply consume mmorpgs and maybe all of online gaming. Its not about rpg any more and the players over all do not want rpg they want loot and to be better then others as a means of internet ego.

My best adviese i could give you is to take a step back enjoy what you can and avoid what you do not enjoy when playing gw2. Your always going to get your money worth if you skip things because there is no monthly fee. Try not to look things up try not to use in game “cheats” try to do every thing with some one you know and like.

To be honest, the only time I go on the internet to look up information is when I am crafting. Otherwise, I never used website to obtain the fastest way for dungeons. I’m in a Speed Clear guild with 2-3 world records on certain paths. So we are actually always trying to find new or better way to do dungeons.

As for Gw1, I went on websites to look at armor skins or to look up build.

You are right though that there is to many information given to the player, hence making it easy and in the end making the content fell a little dull. But it is not the point I am trying to explain here.

I’ve been playing this game with friends since the beginning, but the feeling I have toward the game right now is also a feeling shared by my friends (irl or ingame). I will quote my friend here ‘’new patch? Awesome’’ and exactly 10 minutes after ‘’nothing is working I guess I will log in tomorrow’’.

These two things that my friend said to me today after the patch is clearly showing that something is odd.

What I was trying to convey to everyone in this post is that something is wrong when you are made to believe that something huge is coming but in the end, what you got was… nothing great.

This was my reply, and I’m not part of that said so generation. I would be willing to wait years if in the end what we are promised will actually end up being in the game.

As a matter of fact, it is true that there is a lot of information on the game and every player can do what they want with it.

tolunart.2095:

They made a decision to go in a different direction. You may not like that direction, but that doesn’t mean the devs didn’t consider the matter before making this decision.

I am quoting this from : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1264476-Verdict-on-Guild-Wars-2-s-innovations/page25

’’Well, they could have fights that are more involved without having a role trinity. Such as… Guild Wars 1.

GW1 only had one hard defined role in the Monk. Which wasn’t expressly a healer as one could take 8 damage skills to a dungeon/mission. Still one could run missions/dungeons fully without a healer/monk or means of direct heals. And there were no consumables in GW1 either.

It was all about composition, the puzzle and execution.

Where GW2 fails in it’s variant on GW1’s no trinity dynamic is lack of the “puzzle” part.

Most fights with bosses in GW2 are indistinguishable from mundane mobs. Most encounters are the same; kite, CC, damage, damage, damage. This is compounded by more limited class choices, interaction and input compared to Guild Wars 1.

In GW1 almost anything was possible within the gameplay systems. Almost everything was open to players, allowing for creative solutions to very complex encounters. Which did take in the common axis between damage in | damage out. But also added things like protection, timing, binary choices, environmental interaction, time constraints, alternate paths and so on.

The sort of problem with GW2 combat in fractals/dungeons/open world is that it’s badly designed. IMO, natch.

No trinity is totes fine… if you can pull it off.’’

You can also take a look at this article and the discussion it has created:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/19/where-guild-wars-2-goes-wrong/

You should also read this:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

and

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Difference-between-GW1-and-GW2

Not sure what the point of all that was. Yes, there are people who don’t like the game. I happen to like GW2 more than the original GW. Which is why I play GW2 and not GW.

If I like GW better, I wouldn’t be here telling everyone that GW2 should be more like GW, I’d be playing GW.

And to get back to what I initially said, the fact that I like this game so much makes it harder for me to see it go the way its going. The feeling of dissapointment is simply getting stronger. And this is what I don’t want to see.

Now, there are solutions to that. Its the Dev job to find these solutions. But with the amount of suggestions and ideas that player bring in these forums, there is no excuse for the Dev to not bring to us something great (Story, content etc).

When you like a game so much you expect the best out of it. Thats all.

And the fact that I am not playing Gw1 anymore is that I like Gw2 for what it offers and for its unique design, but it could be even better. I hope it will.

Fasalina.6571:

There are probably 400k people currently playing the game.
I’d assume it impossible for you to be the only one in anything you do in game.

And yes, the hype was real, especially for the GW1 folks that hoped to find a decent successor to their beloved game. Instead they found a “kitten”. The blood flowing through this game is only half royal. Because king papa made love with a lowlife steward and GW2 came out

lol great way to sum up gw2!

A R W E N.6895:

And the fact that I am not playing Gw1 anymore is that I like Gw2 for what it offers and for its unique design, but it could be even better. I hope it will.

Give it another two or three years.

tolunart.2095:

A R W E N.6895:

And the fact that I am not playing Gw1 anymore is that I like Gw2 for what it offers and for its unique design, but it could be even better. I hope it will.

Give it another two or three years.

And I will for sure, but the Dev should atleast give up some hope to start with! Don’t you think?

I’m suprised people dont realize that this game is still in beta.

A R W E N.6895:

tolunart.2095:

A R W E N.6895:

And the fact that I am not playing Gw1 anymore is that I like Gw2 for what it offers and for its unique design, but it could be even better. I hope it will.

Give it another two or three years.

And I will for sure, but the Dev should atleast give up some hope to start with! Don’t you think?

I’m not sure what you are expecting. The devs have been responsive to players’ preferences, such as making permanent changes to the world through the LS, adding weapon and armor skins (even bringing back skins like the fused skins that were very difficult to get the first time around), and discussing long term plans through the CDI threads.

They have added content for hardcore, progression-oriented players (fractals and ascended gear) as well as casual, easy to complete content like the LS chapters. At nearly any point in the game’s history there has been something new to explore.

They are trying new things, making mistakes, collecting feedback, and learning. What do you want?

Stand The Wall.6987:

I’m suprised people dont realize that this game is still in beta.

The term is meaningless for an MMO. The game itself is never “finished.”

tolunart.2095:

A R W E N.6895:

And the fact that I am not playing Gw1 anymore is that I like Gw2 for what it offers and for its unique design, but it could be even better. I hope it will.

Give it another two or three years.

If everyone who gets frustrated with the game leaves it for two or three years, it might not be around to come back to in two or three years.

perilisk.1874:

If everyone who gets frustrated with the game leaves it for two or three years, it might not be around to come back to in two or three years.

The devs collect a lot of data about player behavior and have confirmed that they are moving in the direction they want to be moving. If the game were in such bad shape they would not be continuing on this path. Do not mistake the vocal minority for anything more than what it is.

I just want to bring out something.

When someone likes a game so much, it makes him expect way way way much more from it.

To many casual player always say to people that are unhappy ‘’just change game’‘. This won’t happen. The fact that we like the game creates that dissapointment when you expect a lot

Just had to bring that up

WRay.2391:

At least in Diablo 3 they finally start listening. Looking forward to the next patch when they are removing RMAH and changing loot system.

Diablo 3 became essentially a meme associated with failure: “and then we doubled it”. I didn’t have a problem with the content per se and thought the combat was superb. My initial problem with it was “this is an arpg about smashing zombies and finding awesome loot…where’s the loot”.

But, yes, they began listening. It was D3 that taught me the in-game effects of the RMT monetization scheme. When players stopped paying for a sub out of game, they started paying for reward in-game. I think the model has harmed games. I was surprised, but heartened to discover that Blizz was removing the RMAH and revamping the loot system. Imagine playing a game and experiencing reward for play. That is becoming a novelty in contemporary games. Some games have it like, say, torchlight 2, but they tend to be low budget titles. It will be interesting to see what they can do with D3. I’ll definitely be checking it out.

But, yeah, GW2 has followed a similar trajectory but haven’t risen (fallen?) to the level of D3.

tolunart.2095:

perilisk.1874:

If everyone who gets frustrated with the game leaves it for two or three years, it might not be around to come back to in two or three years.

The devs collect a lot of data about player behavior and have confirmed that they are moving in the direction they want to be moving. If the game were in such bad shape they would not be continuing on this path. Do not mistake the vocal minority for anything more than what it is.

Collecting data is of no value whatsoever. It is what you do with the data that matters and that requires both technical savvy and wisdom. Are you suggesting that Anet moving in the direction they want to is Anet moving in a direction that will ultimately be good for the game? How would you know that is true? Is it from their management of the game to date?

Any reference to “vocal minority” is simply a rhetorical device to bolster ones position with…well, nothing. There is no “vocal minority” on these forums, there are only voices. The voices will be in the majority or minority. Do they represent the voices of all the players? No, they represent the voices of 100% of the players taking part in the discussion on whatever forum or blog they appear on. There is absolutely no way to know whether any one opinion represents a majority or minority opinion of the entire playerbase without querying the playerbase. The term is meaningless and I really wish people would stop using it.

Raine.1394:

tolunart.2095:

perilisk.1874:

If everyone who gets frustrated with the game leaves it for two or three years, it might not be around to come back to in two or three years.

The devs collect a lot of data about player behavior and have confirmed that they are moving in the direction they want to be moving. If the game were in such bad shape they would not be continuing on this path. Do not mistake the vocal minority for anything more than what it is.

Collecting data is of no value whatsoever. It is what you do with the data that matters and that requires both technical savvy and wisdom. Are you suggesting that Anet moving in the direction they want to is Anet moving in a direction that will ultimately be good for the game? How would you know that is true? Is it from their management of the game to date?

Any reference to “vocal minority” is simply a rhetorical device to bolster ones position with…well, nothing. There is no “vocal minority” on these forums, there are only voices. The voices will be in the majority or minority. Do they represent the voices of all the players? No, they represent the voices of 100% of the players taking part in the discussion on whatever forum or blog they appear on. There is absolutely no way to know whether any one opinion represents a majority or minority opinion of the entire playerbase without querying the playerbase. The term is meaningless and I really wish people would stop using it.

With no religious meaning Il simply say AMEN to what you just said!

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

The life of the game, and thus the jobs of the people who work on it, depend on giving the players what they want. Not just bobsmith.1234 complaining on the forums because he still doesn’t have a precursor or Legendary, but the player base as a whole. The main point of collecting data and interpreting it is to move in a direction the player base as a whole wants to go in, not to listen to the loudest complaints.

I am extremely disappointed.

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

And what would be this so called “majority of players”?
Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.
The only difference is that there’s people who comes here and voice their complaints, and people who just goes “meh”, and unistall the game without giving a kitten … Who do you think gives a better feedback on what should be done to retain people?

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

Not necessarily correct. You are assuming Anet interprets their metrics correctly. That’s a very strong assumption.

Valanga.5942:

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

And what would be this so called “majority of players”?
Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.
The only difference is that there’s people who comes here and voice their complaints, and people who just goes “meh”, and unistall the game without giving a kitten … Who do you think gives a better feedback on what should be done to retain people?

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

Lord Kuru.3685:

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

Not necessarily correct. You are assuming Anet interprets their metrics correctly. That’s a very strong assumption.

Not really, the company is thriving in a market with intense competition. They are obviously doing something right.

Guild Wars 2 had a really good and promising start.

But then, ANet descided to start a devolution spiral. Now, GW2 is more generic than ever, with more and more replaceable temporary raid content sold as the best thing ever.

It is actually a pain to watch something nice being butchered by the Dev’s for the sake of not having a clue what to do and start copying other MMOs.

Vertical progression.
Grindy achievements.
Raid content as endgame.
BiS items gated artificially.

What has this game become…

HykCraft.4610:

I love Diablo II, I really enjoy Diablo III (console versions are supreme), and I am still in love with Guild Wars 2. Way too many haters out there. If you can’t enjoy the game, please go enjoy another game elsewhere. Simple as that.

no comment.

about “vocal minority”…
i’m not sure anet is doing the right thing. or, at least, it’s not so easy to infer.
don’t forget the non vocal ragequitters.

obviously anet should know well what is better for gemst…uhm for the game.
but actual numbers is not a sufficient parameter.
there are lots of upcoming games…and nothing to make gw2 different and better if compared to many mmos.

Kevan.8912:

about “vocal minority”…
i’m not sure anet is doing the right thing. or, at least, it’s not so easy to infer.
don’t forget the non vocal ragequitters.

obviously anet should know well what is better for gemst…uhm for the game.
but actual numbers is not a sufficient parameter.
there are lots of upcoming games…and nothing to make gw2 different and better if compared to many mmos.

That’s my point. For example, if the discontent about ascended gear expressed on the forums were proportional to its acceptance by players in general, Anet would have noticed an extreme drop in logins, ascended gear purchases, and fractal runs. After collecting data for several months it would be obvious that the new tier of gear was not welcome and they would have reversed or abandoned their treatment of it.

The result? Legendaries upgraded to ascended tier with the introduction of weapons and later ascended armor. If the majority of their players hated ascended gear and refused to use it, why would they introduce the rest of the gear? Because they want to lose their jobs after driving away the remaining players?

Of course not! They went forward with their plans because their data showed that the majority of their players accepted, if not welcomed, the new tier of gear. MMOs are long-term games and need long-term goals to retain players. Anet knows this and is introducing more long term goals for players to go after. Those who want everything handed to them right now are the minority, and most likely to drift away when there’s nothing left to work for and a new game comes along. Those players who are committed to obtaining a full set of gear and/or Legendaries are far more likely to stay with the game as competing products are released.

tolunart.2095:

Those players who are committed to obtaining a full set of gear and/or Legendaries are far more likely to stay with the game as competing products are released.

And this is, where you might be wrong. ANet was very lucky with no other big releases out there since launch.
The players you are talking about are the ones that always want more than is available. ANet got greedy and instead of cultivating their niche, they streamlined the game for the big crowd. 2014 will be a tough year to convince players that always want new and exciting stuff to stay with a game that old.

The players you described will leave GW2 like a locust swarm for the new greener looking other side(s). On the other hand, GW fans and people that liked the idea displayed in the manifesto are gone and GW2 will fill no niche at all.

GW2 will not just die, but the already empty zones will get just more barren.

Valanga.5942:

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

And what would be this so called “majority of players”?
Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.
The only difference is that there’s people who comes here and voice their complaints, and people who just goes “meh”, and unistall the game without giving a kitten … Who do you think gives a better feedback on what should be done to retain people?

The people who uninstall the game (or more exactly the ones who go away and won’t come back) give much better feedback than the people who complain here.

Their number is factual and an accurate measurement how “addictive” the game play is (not the only measurement but ultimately a very important one). The about 100 to 1000 complainers on the other hand are not more than anecdotal evidence.

More interesting are the actual arguments complainers introduce. Like “I am extremely disappointed.”, some posts before. Now, that really helps.

Yes but there is a difference between saying ‘’I am extremely disappointed’’ and ‘’I am extremely disappointed and this is why..’’.

I know lots of people, especialy in my guild, who love this game so much and would be willing to pay if it was for something concrete, but these people are not the type of people that usually go on forums and voice their oppinion. One really important reason why is that they are french. Myself being french, I am probably the only one in there being able to speak and write english. As I’ve noted in the past, on the guildwars2/fr forum there seems to be no one there (devs and players). It’s a ghost town.

Hence not everyone is actually able to voice their oppinion. But when they do, they don’t get as much feedback as people in the US would get.

My guild mates and me were from Gw1 before, and came to Gw2 right from the beginning. As a matter of fact, they love Guild wars so much that even though they are unsatisfied, they will keep playing the game because they love it. And by that, they are hoping that some day (soon or maybe never) that something good will be given to players (by that I mean ’’Content’’). These people have probably 1500+ hours of gameplay and none of them cry about the fact that they do not get precursors or all that stuff. They complain about the fact that the game has so much potential but it feels like Anet does not want to exploit the maximum out of their game.

Random fact: I have 500+ hours of gameplay and got 12 precursors. RNG is bullkitten. And as a matter of fact I am finishing a Bachelor in Applied Statistics and I don’t even want to start thinking about how that RNG is such a lie.

I just don’t like the Living Story. I don’t want to be forced to play content because it will be soon gone or the new events/zones dead. I’d rather have an expansion which I can play at my own pace.

Nick.6972:

I just don’t like the Living Story. I don’t want to be forced to play content because it will be soon gone or the new events/zones dead. I’d rather have an expansion which I can play at my own pace.

Word.

The living story it self is not a bad idea. I just think that the way it is delivered to us is what makes lots of people feel pushed toward it as if they don’t have a choice.

There is maybe a way to make that living story a better thing.

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

Nope. The goal of 3.5 mln has been reached after the whole Lost Shores fiasco and Ascendant Grind.
Wich means a lot of people came into the game after that and from there left for never return.
And for “a lot” i don’t mean “a vast majority” or whatever may need you to derail the point… Actually i can’t say (like anyone else) how many of those 3.5 mln are still in game.
It may even be 3.499.999 people and i’m the only one who left.

And for the growing population? You may be right and i don’t doubt you’ve seen more people in the last few months… Or you may be wrong since last time i logged before quitting for good i found my old guild and friends gone, and the server half empty.
I wish i had the same total faith you have in what the devs say, but sadly, after all the sales speech they passed for dev blog i don’t have any left.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

tolunart.2095:

Those players who are committed to obtaining a full set of gear and/or Legendaries are far more likely to stay with the game as competing products are released.

And this is, where you might be wrong. ANet was very lucky with no other big releases out there since launch.
The players you are talking about are the ones that always want more than is available. ANet got greedy and instead of cultivating their niche, they streamlined the game for the big crowd. 2014 will be a tough year to convince players that always want new and exciting stuff to stay with a game that old.

The players you described will leave GW2 like a locust swarm for the new greener looking other side(s). On the other hand, GW fans and people that liked the idea displayed in the manifesto are gone and GW2 will fill no niche at all.

GW2 will not just die, but the already empty zones will get just more barren.

Yes, I’m familiar with the forum doomsayers “Game X is coming and it will completely destroy this game! BWAHAHA!”

Anet is aware of the impending releases as well. Do you think it’s a coincidence that this spring, around the time when ESO launches, the LS finale happens, a new LS is launched, and between them a “features” update is scheduled? There are a lot of things happening to keep players focused on GW2. And the B2P nature of the game means that a person can set aside the game for a while, play the free month of ESO, and evaluate whether they want to pay every month to play or come back and play for free.

Every MMO release is overhyped and overpromised, and eventually every MMO launch is declared a failure, usually by the same individuals. Anet is not afraid of these people, or the games they will be disappointed by.

Valanga.5942:

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

Nope. The goal of 3.5 mln has been reached after the whole Lost Shores fiasco and Ascendant Grind.
Wich means a lot of people came into the game after that and from there left for never return.
And for “a lot” i don’t mean “a vast majority” or whatever may need you to derail the point… Actually i can’t say (like anyone else) how many of those 3.5 mln are still in game.
It may even be 3.499.999 people and i’m the only one who left.

And for the growing population? You may be right and i don’t doubt you’ve seen more people in the last few months… Or you may be wrong since last time i logged before quitting for good i found my old guild and friends gone, and the server half empty.
I wish i had the same total faith you have in what the devs say, but sadly, after all the sales speech they passed for dev blog i don’t have any left.

The 3.5 million total was reached after the 2 million people that had signed on at launch. Because I’m relatively sure this game launched with 2 million sales. So 1. 5 million people came on after that and it was gradual over time.

I don’t need faith in what the devs say I watch what goes on in game. There’s a percentage of people who hate the marionette fight, but there are plenty of people in game really enjoying it (as well as some posting here on the forums).

There are tons of people saying they hate the wurm fight, but there are people fielding huge groups of people trying to be the first to beat it.

Everyone thinks the way they think is the way most people think. We can’t all be right.

Vayne.8563:

Everyone thinks the way they think is the way most people think. We can’t all be right.

Actually it’s not true, i’ve never said mine is the only possible truth, or that i speak for the majority of the community, but i have evidence that quite a good amount of people isn’t happy of what the game turned out to be.

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I’m familiar with the forum doomsayers “Game X is coming and it will completely destroy this game! BWAHAHA!”

Anet is aware of the impending releases as well. Do you think it’s a coincidence that this spring, around the time when ESO launches, the LS finale happens, a new LS is launched, and between them a “features” update is scheduled? There are a lot of things happening to keep players focused on GW2. And the B2P nature of the game means that a person can set aside the game for a while, play the free month of ESO, and evaluate whether they want to pay every month to play or come back and play for free.

Every MMO release is overhyped and overpromised, and eventually every MMO launch is declared a failure, usually by the same individuals. Anet is not afraid of these people, or the games they will be disappointed by.

While ESO is sort of a challenger for GW2 in matters of Wv3, I wasn’t just thinking of that.
Reaper of Souls might make D3 the game people were asking for, Destiniy looks very promising. Both are without a monthly fee. I have seen too little of Everquest Next, which will be F2P, so all together, that is a fair line-up of things to come. There are more multi-player AAA games coming I have not listed.

What came out 2013 in regards to AAA titels? FF14 redux? I just said, that GW2 will feel an impact 2014 that is stronger than 2013.

Well GW2 obviously shouldn’t have been a sequel to GW1 in the first place. The game design is the exact antithesis of the first game’s and even the lore is pretty much unrecognizable. They have absolutely nothing in common besides an art team and composer. GW2 was dumbed down for mass market appeal to go after market share instead of building upon the innovative systems of the first game. It’s the exact same thing that happened to Blizzard with Diablo 3 and WoW after its giant paradigm shift in wotlk to make everything more and more “accessible”. Great game companies that abandoned making deep, although sometimes daunting and complex, innovative games to develop shallow, but idiot friendly and widely marketable, revenue streams posing as games.

Anyway OP you should give Path of Exile a try. It’s basically what Diablo 3 should have been and has some really innovative, deep customization systems.

I like the content in this update. Wurm is nice, Twisted Marionette is nice, Scarlet’s Lair is nice. Next update is February 8. More good things will come.

Vayne.8563:

Valanga.5942:

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

And what would be this so called “majority of players”?
Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.
The only difference is that there’s people who comes here and voice their complaints, and people who just goes “meh”, and unistall the game without giving a kitten … Who do you think gives a better feedback on what should be done to retain people?

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

What he actually said:

“Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.”

He nowhere suggests that normal attrition doesn’t take place. What you have done is set up a straw man and attack it. The use of “ancient history” is an interesting rhetorical device. Why would one use “ancient” history like this when responding to an argument. And, realistically, can a game less than two years old have an “ancient” history?

Raine.1394:

And, realistically, can a game less than two years old have an “ancient” history?

That depend on how convienent can be to back up his opinion…
GW2 can easily become “Still new, not even 2 years old!” when it’s about missing features and content, or “Ancient Stuff” in a case like the one above :P

tolunart.2095:

The term is meaningless for an MMO. The game itself is never “finished.”

That’s the correct answer.

What are you guys comparing GW2 with? The 7-year old WoW? The 6(?)-ish-year-old Lineage II? GW2 is improving. It just takes time.

Rash.6514:

tolunart.2095:

The term is meaningless for an MMO. The game itself is never “finished.”

That’s the correct answer.

What are you guys comparing GW2 with? The 7-year old WoW? The 6(?)-ish-year-old Lineage II? GW2 is improving. It just takes time.

I’m testing an MMO in beta wich is way more bugless and smooth than 1 year and a half old GW2… So i wouldn’t say that the term is “meaningless”

Valanga.5942:

Rash.6514:

tolunart.2095:

The term is meaningless for an MMO. The game itself is never “finished.”

That’s the correct answer.

What are you guys comparing GW2 with? The 7-year old WoW? The 6(?)-ish-year-old Lineage II? GW2 is improving. It just takes time.

I’m testing an MMO in beta wich is way more bugless and smooth than 1 year and a half old GW2… So i wouldn’t say that the term is “meaningless”

It can’t be ESO at least, since i have heared only bad things from people who played the beta. Maybe 1 of 30 said that he will play it nonetheless.

And Wildstar .. who needs WoW in Space ? And also it wouldn’t really make me sad if all the folks that want so much their hardcore raids better go there thand constantly trying GW2 to be more like WoW.

Beldin.5498:

Valanga.5942:

Rash.6514:

tolunart.2095:

The term is meaningless for an MMO. The game itself is never “finished.”

That’s the correct answer.

What are you guys comparing GW2 with? The 7-year old WoW? The 6(?)-ish-year-old Lineage II? GW2 is improving. It just takes time.

I’m testing an MMO in beta wich is way more bugless and smooth than 1 year and a half old GW2… So i wouldn’t say that the term is “meaningless”

It can’t be ESO at least, since i have heared only bad things from people who played the beta. Maybe 1 of 30 said that he will play it nonetheless.

And Wildstar .. who needs WoW in Space ? And also it wouldn’t really make me sad if all the folks that want so much their hardcore raids better go there thand constantly trying GW2 to be more like WoW.

Why would people want GW2 to be more like WoW when they can just go play WoW since it’s a better game.

Beldin.5498:

And Wildstar .. who needs WoW in Space ? And also it wouldn’t really make me sad if all the folks that want so much their hardcore raids better go there thand constantly trying GW2 to be more like WoW.

Don’t mean to be rude, but… Who cares? I wasn’t talking about the need or not of a “wow in space” (wich is not, since it would be like calling GW2 “WoW with only DPS specs”), but the fact that there is a game in beta wich is already more “improved” than 1.5 years old GW2.

Valanga.5942:

but the fact that there is a game in beta wich is already more “improved” than 1.5 years old GW2.

Who cares ? 1-2 month after release that game is the worst game with no endgame and worst suport that has ever been released .. like every other MMO that was always sooo much better before release.

tolunart.2095:

That’s my point. For example, if the discontent about ascended gear expressed on the forums were proportional to its acceptance by players in general, Anet would have noticed an extreme drop in logins, ascended gear purchases, and fractal runs. After collecting data for several months it would be obvious that the new tier of gear was not welcome and they would have reversed or abandoned their treatment of it.

The result? Legendaries upgraded to ascended tier with the introduction of weapons and later ascended armor. If the majority of their players hated ascended gear and refused to use it, why would they introduce the rest of the gear? Because they want to lose their jobs after driving away the remaining players?

Of course not! They went forward with their plans because their data showed that the majority of their players accepted, if not welcomed, the new tier of gear. MMOs are long-term games and need long-term goals to retain players. Anet knows this and is introducing more long term goals for players to go after. Those who want everything handed to them right now are the minority, and most likely to drift away when there’s nothing left to work for and a new game comes along. Those players who are committed to obtaining a full set of gear and/or Legendaries are far more likely to stay with the game as competing products are released.

This is poor logic.

Historical data shows us that leading a large army into Russia in the winter is a recipe for disaster. Now, since the data shows this, you would think that everyone would learn their lesson from the data, yes? Well, explain to me why a certain German dictator decided to ignore the data from Napoleon’s failure and invade Russia in the winter.

Bottom line: People don’t always make sensible decisions with the information they have, and just because they’ve made a decision doesn’t mean that data exists to justify it.

Beldin.5498:

Valanga.5942:

but the fact that there is a game in beta wich is already more “improved” than 1.5 years old GW2.

Who cares ? 1-2 month after release that game is the worst game with no endgame and worst suport that has ever been released .. like every other MMO that was always sooo much better before release.

Actually i can barely remember an MMO with less content and endgame than GW2…

You guys get too much carried away with the hype each release. I used to be like that but I’ve gotten numb towards the hype. trust me it works better then creating in your imagination what it should look like.

NewTrain.7549:

Bottom line: People don’t always make sensible decisions with the information they have, and just because they’ve made a decision doesn’t mean that data exists to justify it.

Don’t assume someone is stupid because he doesn’t do what you would do.

Anet devs have more information about the game and more experience in the industry than forum warriors, and therefore they are in a better position to make good decisions. They can make mistakes, but I’ll trust their judgement far more than some anonymous forum poster who says “just do such-and-such and everything will be fine.”