Guild Wars 2

Unloveableone.6082:

This article sums up basically everything there is about this whole fiasco and everyone should read it.
http://www.killtenrats.com/2015/06/18/gw2-lash-and-love/

They’ve worked kitten this expansion. It’s their life. What they put their hard work and passion into. Some of you think they’re just greedy dirtbags that want to screw you over…why? Have you ever created a work of art? A painting? A musical piece? A game? A story?
How would you feel if when you announced that it was ready for purchase, people spat on it. People lashed out at you on not only your official accounts, but your personal ones to.
How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?
You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

But being complete jerks about all of this is revolting and reflects poorly on us as a community. And think of the devs. They have feelings too. And I’m sure many are upset right now. This may just be an expansion to you, but it’s much more than that to them.

Arenanet, thank you for all you have done. For putting the time and effort into giving us an amazing series of games that only get better as time goes on. I’ve been looking forward to HoT since it was announced and cannot wait.
Keep the amazing work

True, some of the complaints have been out of line. So have some of the white knight analogies.

How is voicing justified complaints not okay?

A.) People are having doubts about the price tag properly reflecting all the content offered.

→ based on what was shown so far
→ based on arenanets history of “overhyping” their content
→ based on properly part of frustration of ages of dry spell and new content which was always justifed with “they are working on HoT”

B.) Arenanets scumbag business approach.

→ 50,-$ without a character slot. Every blind man can see that they are banging on people having to buy at least 1 character slot
→ multiple game promotions and trying to cash in on as many people before they offer the base game for free plus expansion
→ a strong disparity between value of buying HoT for veteran players and new players

Unloveableone.6082:

You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

But being complete jerks about all of this is revolting and reflects poorly on us as a community. And think of the devs. They have feelings too. And I’m sure many are upset right now. This may just be an expansion to you, but it’s much more than that to them.

True, they owe us nothing, and the same goes vice versa. Now imagine how long your gaming business will run smoothly with this kind of sentiment on both sides?

It’s called customer retention (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_retention)

→ Customer retention is the activity that a selling organization undertakes in order to reduce customer defections. Successful customer retention starts with the first contact an organization has with a customer and continues throughout the entire lifetime of a relationship

White knighting the problems will only do more harm and damage the game in the long run.

EA/Dice are people too.

Many.8419:

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

I’m not your friend. I do not support harassment. If this lady from OP feels being harassed how about taking advice anet always gives their players? Block and report and let their support team solve the issue. They are not children, those are grown up ppl doing their jobs. A company made a bad decision, now is the time to fix it. Emotional tweets won’t help with fixing this issue.

You’re making huge assumption that the company made a bad decision. Did it ever occure to you that perhaps its players raging that are in the wrong?

Just look at FFXIV. They did something similar. for $10 extra with their expansion you can get the core game. Its a sensible thing to do since it gives you a chance to get new customers you would not otherwise get. No one is angry with Square Enix for doing this. So at which point does this really become this really bad decision? when they charge $5 extra? when they charge $2? or when they charge nothing exactly?

Nobody has been saying anything about the devs/artists/programmers of this.
This is all poor marketing and poor resource management, like always.

Maybe Mike O’brien can ask his co-founders to come back and consult for him >_>

Galen Grey.4709:

Many.8419:

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

I’m not your friend. I do not support harassment. If this lady from OP feels being harassed how about taking advice anet always gives their players? Block and report and let their support team solve the issue. They are not children, those are grown up ppl doing their jobs. A company made a bad decision, now is the time to fix it. Emotional tweets won’t help with fixing this issue.

You’re making huge assumption that the company made a bad decision. Did it ever occure to you that perhaps its players raging that are in the wrong?

Just look at FFXIV. They did something similar. for $10 extra with their expansion you can get the core game. Its a sensible thing to do since it gives you a chance to get new customers you would not otherwise get. No one is angry with Square Enix for doing this. So at which point does this really become this really bad decision? when they charge $5 extra? when they charge $2? or when they charge nothing exactly?

How does this compare to this situation? I’d be fine with getting 10,- $ off for already owning the base game (which is nothing else than paying 10,-$ more for the core game).

I’m not even going to comment on you comparing this situation to a company who pulled their new MMO and completely remade it and rereleased it. That’s some way more customer friendly business right there compared to the last year of anet.

Tere.4759:

CoRtex.2157:

This is just nonsense. Arenanet are people too… like what?! That doesn’t mean anything.
Thiefs are people too,, scammers are people too,, suicide bombers are people too…

And these are all true, but what are you trying to say???

And about the whole music and art stuff… Ok i’ll create a song,, 1min long and please give me 10$ for it, ok? It’s a rip-off. That’s the point.

You have no idea if it’s a rip off or not. You are making an assumption that the content won’t be worth the price. Have you ever played WOW? Take a look at the other MMOs out there, yes the ones you actually pay money to play, and see how much they charge for an expansion. You consider this a rip off. I do not.

I’ve played wow,, didn’t play it alot though,, i like GW1 more. But i have all expansions and really,, wow expansions are pretty cheap if you see all the content they have. And yes. I don’t know what HoT will have. But it doesn’t have much from what i’ve seen. So… I have to pay €45 for content that might not be there. You can expect dungeons.. doesn’t mean it will have dungeons.

Basicly as a PvE player i’m paying 45€ + 10€ (slot) for “The Heart
of Maguuma” + “Revenant Class”

Cyninja.2954:

Galen Grey.4709:

Many.8419:

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

I’m not your friend. I do not support harassment. If this lady from OP feels being harassed how about taking advice anet always gives their players? Block and report and let their support team solve the issue. They are not children, those are grown up ppl doing their jobs. A company made a bad decision, now is the time to fix it. Emotional tweets won’t help with fixing this issue.

You’re making huge assumption that the company made a bad decision. Did it ever occure to you that perhaps its players raging that are in the wrong?

Just look at FFXIV. They did something similar. for $10 extra with their expansion you can get the core game. Its a sensible thing to do since it gives you a chance to get new customers you would not otherwise get. No one is angry with Square Enix for doing this. So at which point does this really become this really bad decision? when they charge $5 extra? when they charge $2? or when they charge nothing exactly?

How does this compare to this situation? I’d be fine with getting 10,- $ off for already owning the base game (which is nothing else than paying 10,-$ more for the core game).

I’m not even going to comment on you comparing this situation to a company who pulled their new MMO and completely remade it and rereleased it. That’s some way more customer friendly business right there compared to the last year of anet.

It compares like this:
instead of charging $60 for the expansion and the game like Square enix are Arenanet decided to provide a better deal and instead of charging $10 extra they’re not charging anything.

so yeah you could argue they should remove the cost of the core game since you dont need it but since they’re charging $0 that will not change anything .

Galen Grey.4709:

Cyninja.2954:

Galen Grey.4709:

Many.8419:

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

I’m not your friend. I do not support harassment. If this lady from OP feels being harassed how about taking advice anet always gives their players? Block and report and let their support team solve the issue. They are not children, those are grown up ppl doing their jobs. A company made a bad decision, now is the time to fix it. Emotional tweets won’t help with fixing this issue.

You’re making huge assumption that the company made a bad decision. Did it ever occure to you that perhaps its players raging that are in the wrong?

Just look at FFXIV. They did something similar. for $10 extra with their expansion you can get the core game. Its a sensible thing to do since it gives you a chance to get new customers you would not otherwise get. No one is angry with Square Enix for doing this. So at which point does this really become this really bad decision? when they charge $5 extra? when they charge $2? or when they charge nothing exactly?

How does this compare to this situation? I’d be fine with getting 10,- $ off for already owning the base game (which is nothing else than paying 10,-$ more for the core game).

I’m not even going to comment on you comparing this situation to a company who pulled their new MMO and completely remade it and rereleased it. That’s some way more customer friendly business right there compared to the last year of anet.

It compares like this:
instead of charging $60 for the expansion and the game like Square enix are Arenanet decided to provide a better deal and instead of charging $10 extra they’re not charging anything.

so yeah you could argue they should remove the cost of the core game since you dont need it but since they’re charging $0 that will not change anything .

Which is an entire different complaint. You are mushing two complaints together.

One being the expansion might not be worth 50,-$, the other being that we are forced to rebuy the core game (not to mention all the people who got lured into buying the game recently).

The reason people didn’t complain about square is that their expansion was not tainted by such short term busniess moves.

Not sure how character slots work in FFXIV, but that’s another 10,- $ right there. So essentially we are already talking about a 60,-$ expansion which forces you to pay for the “free” base game.

It’s just a LOT of small things adding up.

Would people be fine with any 1 of the following?:

- 50,- $ price tag
- no character slot
- luring under false pretense (core game being required)
- disparity between new accounts (5 character slots+bank) vs old account upgrading

I’m sure on their own people would stomach it. All of them together is what is causeing the uproar. And that’s not even dealing with probable lack of content.

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

Unloveableone.6082:

They’ve worked kitten this expansion. It’s their life. What they put their hard work and passion into. Some of you think they’re just greedy dirtbags that want to screw you over…why? Have you ever created a work of art? A painting? A musical piece? A game? A story?

Correction: it’s their job. They can be passionate about it. They can make it into being their life. But it’s a job. And a collective one at that. And no one is judging the result of the hard work. They are judging the price tag because, obviously, it’s going to be terrible value when compared to the original game (unless they include 7 professions instead of one, 8 dungeons with 3 explorable paths, 32 maps, 5 new races , etc etc etc)

And yes, i have created many things. Some for work, and some for pleasure. And it all changes when you are trying to sell what you create. For work I have it easy: everything is detailed and set before i even start working, which means the final outcome always matches the expectations. This is not the case here, as they are being rather shady about many issues with HoT.

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?
You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

I would feel like working a lot more and proving everybody wrong. No one can ridicule what they haven’t seen and i don’t think that’s the case here.

And no, they don’t owe me nothing regarding HoT, because i haven’t paid yet. But they still owe me a minion ai for the necro that actually works, among many other things….

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

Because at that point everyone was assuming the core game was still required and the core game copy you get with HoT is not seperate but part of the HoT package. So as a veteran owner of GW2 you can’t just take the “free copy” and create a second account.

Being a fantasy writer myself for a good chunk of 18 years already, seing sh*ts hit the fan numerous times my side I say – GROW A PAIR ALREADY!

ANet gets what they deserve and the matter is NOT only in this kitten pre-purchase! Open your eyes. It’s their general way to deliver things. It’s the time when consumer patience for them flopped. So they need to deal with cosequences and stop whining.

I honestly dont understand how this all has started because on the whole Arenanet are really great.

I’ve played so many MMOs of all different business model not one comes close to what Anet have done with Gw2.

I dont know do people forget this easily?

I have never had any MMO company send me gifts for buying in game currency, Arenanet did it more then once.

I never had an MMO release so many free content updates while they worked on an expansion

Implemented so many things the community asked starting from the first month when they implemented crafting from the bank

Living story, gifted it free to anyone who spend 5 seconds to log in the 2 week span they ran in.

Developed a whole game with in a game just to have a laugh and enjoy april fool with their players

Changed their whole content release strategy, more then once to make their players happy

Yet we really seem to have gotten to a point people look for any reason where they get to raise their pitchforks against Arenanet. Its incredible, people are specifically being hurtful and even trying to jusitfy they have a right to hurt employees or a subset their of at least because of their outrage and over what? because Arenanet decided to give for free once again something others generally charge for? I really dont understand people any longer… perhaps arenanet should just stop being nice altogether.

They got attacked for giving the LS season 2 for free and only charge those who dont log in at least once when they’re active and they got attacked for that while I have absolutely never heard people attacking The Secret world , Defiance , dc online or any other MMO that charges or DLCs even though they charge far more then what Gw2 charged for its living story.

Now they decide to bundle the game for free with the expansion and again they’re attacked quite brutally, while others who also bundle their core game with their expansion and charge $10 dont even get a mention.

Arenanet decide to be nice and we find a way how to twist their actions and make them seem like this bad guy who cares about nothing but money.

Article linked by OP really made me sad. Seriously I just cannot believe what I am seeing. Arenanet for the good of everyone just stop being nice we just dont deserve it.

Cyninja.2954:

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

Because at that point everyone was assuming the core game was still required and the core game copy you get with HoT is not seperate but part of the HoT package. So as a veteran owner of GW2 you can’t just take the “free copy” and create a second account.

Well thats a bummer then. But i had way bigger dissapointments in life then getting something for free thats going to be useless to me. I’ll pick up my physical copy at the retailer the moment it becomes available and get over with it. This game has provided me lots of fun hours just for the money i pumped into and i dont mind to support anet with another 45 euro which i could have lost ina casino otherwise.

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

If I had intentions of buying the expansion (which with the current amount of content even $5 to me is too much as I simply don’t intend to play it) I surely wouldn’t be pre-ordering it because there’s no reason to, why pull my wallet out now when I get the exact same thing if I pull it out at launch.

Galen Grey.4709:

Now they decide to bundle the game for free with the expansion and again they’re attacked quite brutally, while others who also bundle their core game with their expansion and charge $10 dont even get a mention.

Arenanet decide to be nice and we find a way how to twist their actions and make them seem like this bad guy who cares about nothing but money.

Article linked by OP really made me sad. Seriously I just cannot believe what I am seeing. Arenanet for the good of everyone just stop being nice we just dont deserve it.

They decide to bundle their game after changing the FAQ of the expansion which shows up that they did a cash grab with the last few sales.

They deliver an expansion with near no customer service for players who have stuck with them for over 3 years (and longer if coming from GW1).

Arenanet did not “decide to be nice”. More than likely the decision to bundle the expansion witht eh core game was made a while back and they tried to figure a way to maximise their revenue. If they really wanted to be nice, this is what they would have done:

- offered HoT as upgrade for 40,-$ (no extra character slot)
- offered HoT as upgrade for fourty-five $ (1 extra character slot, no other bonuses)
- offered HoT + core game at 50,-$
- offered HoT delux edition at 75,- $ (same as now)
- offered HoT premium edition at 100,-$ (same as now)
- added some titles or other useless stuff for veteran players to feel good. the fact that there is not even a title or anything is saddening

That, would have been “nice” or good customer retention.

Cyninja.2954:

Which is an entire different complaint. You are mushing two complaints together.

One being the expansion might not be worth 50,-$, the other being that we are forced to rebuy the core game (not to mention all the people who got lured into buying the game recently).

Who is forcing you to rebuy the game again? they’re not charging you anything for it. This is all people twisting things to suite their arguments, Arenanet made it pretty clear the bundled core game is free. Arguing you’re being forced to pay for it would be akin anyone arguing that after being forced to buy FFXIV 1.0 they were then forced to pay for it again when they released 2.0!

as for those who bought recently they already said whoever bought recently can get their account changed to the pre-order.

Cyninja.2954:

The reason people didn’t complain about square is that their expansion was not tainted by such short term busniess moves.

Not sure how character slots work in FFXIV, but that’s another 10,- $ right there. So essentially we are already talking about a 60,-$ expansion which forces you to pay for the “free” base game.

ohh but it is! If you use only 1 character sub will cost you $12.99. If you want more then one then sub goes up to $15 and that gives you 8 characters. I am not sure if there is the option for more characters at that point. when FFXIV 1.0 launched it was $10 sub + $3 for every character not sure if they retained that $3 per month for extra additional character beyond 8.

but even with just 8 characters it means you’re paying $2 extra a month which come to $24 a year which in 3 years means you’d have paid $72 which would be equal to 7 characters in Gw2 thats not even mentioning that you dont really need to pay a single cent to unlock a character slot really.

But again everyone is fine with what FFXIV do even though what they do is orders of magnitute worst and Arenanet get it for trying to be nice and give away something for free.

Cyninja.2954:

It’s just a LOT of small things adding up.

Would people be fine with any 1 of the following?:

- 50,- $ price tag
- no character slot
- luring under false pretense (core game being required)
- disparity between new accounts (5 character slots+bank) vs old account upgrading

$50, why not? thats what others charge! actually FXIV will charge you $10 more since the same they’re selling expansion + game for $60 not $50.

They’re not giving a character slot either

there was no luring under false pretences. 1 the core game is required that hasnt changed + anyone who actually bought the game because they thought they would need to buy it anyway they’re upgrading for free even though strictly speaking they still got value out of their purchase.

Cyninja.2954:

I’m sure on their own people would stomach it. All of them together is what is causeing the uproar. And that’s not even dealing with probable lack of content.

what probably lack of content? why is it probable exactly?

Jerus.4350:

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

If I had intentions of buying the expansion (which with the current amount of content even $5 to me is too much as I simply don’t intend to play it) I surely wouldn’t be pre-ordering it because there’s no reason to, why pull my wallet out now when I get the exact same thing if I pull it out at launch.

Why should they? inst the actual expansion incentive enough? Gw2 didnt give any incentives with its standard edition either yet there was no uproar over it!

I dont know where this is coming from, standard editions dont have goodies they’re just the product, thats what deluxe and collectors editions are for after all!

care to point at all these awesome insentives to sweeten the pot other MMOs do with their pre-order programs? because I am not seeing any really. Only thing I can find is Warlords of draenor which offers a instant level 90 option though it wasnt even a pre-purchase reward since its still available now and I have a feeling they did it more for them then for the players considering mists of pandaria had the lowest sales of any WoW expansion I guess it was a good move for them to include the instant level up so that people who skipped over that expansion could still buy and enjoy Dreanor by using that instant LeveL up to bridge the gab skipping over pandaria caused.

All this outrage is clearly not towards devs/artists on the xpac… its directed towards the corporate wall.

Hell I doubt this is even anet to blame (besides maybe the higher up suits)…its probably NCsoft’s decision lol.

The outrage is perfectly warranted. Community can voice their opinions but this outrage is CLEARLY aimed towards the suits making these ripoff decisions…

Cyninja.2954:

They decide to bundle their game after changing the FAQ of the expansion which shows up that they did a cash grab with the last few sales.

Or they changed the FAQ after they came up with the idea of bundling the game for free. We dont know which one it was but lets always assume the worst!

Cyninja.2954:

They deliver an expansion with near no customer service for players who have stuck with them for over 3 years (and longer if coming from GW1).

Arenanet did not “decide to be nice”. More than likely the decision to bundle the expansion witht eh core game was made a while back and they tried to figure a way to maximise their revenue. If they really wanted to be nice, this is what they would have done:

Just like every other MMO developer ever but it seems Arenanet are held to a different much higher standard, not sure if thats a good thing

Cyninja.2954:

- offered HoT as upgrade for 40,-$ (no extra character slot)
- offered HoT as upgrade for fourty-five $ (1 extra character slot, no other bonuses)
- offered HoT + core game at 50,-$
- offered HoT delux edition at 75,- $ (same as now)
- offered HoT premium edition at 100,-$ (same as now)
- added some titles or other useless stuff for veteran players to feel good. the fact that there is not even a title or anything is saddening

That, would have been “nice” or good customer retention.

So after all the content they gave us for free for 3 whole years they deserve to be attacked all out over $10 ? your HoT nice edition is litterally $10 cheaper and you’re happy to defend square enix and calling them the role model of how to threat customers even when they charge 50% more every single month then the amount of money you have issue with (thats $540 for 3 years) + $40 for the expansion. once again Arenanet get a different much higher standard, why?

also I am not sure this will make you happy but at least it should not sadden you as you say because rejoice there is indeed a title if you pre-order its the “Maguuma Trailblazer” title

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-is-available-for-pre-purchase/

Personally I agree a free character would be nice, I think they should keep their $50, well they really have no choice there now since they have sold prepurchases. But they should give a free character slot with the standard edition too. Hopefully people will be willing to bridge their difference over $5

Galen Grey.4709:

I honestly dont understand how this all has started because on the whole Arenanet are really great.

GW2 is great, Anet are pretty rubbish.
They should really take the $100 I’m going to spend on the expansion and use some of it to investigate why I, along with many other people, think this.

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

becoz with HoT package
you wont get another free account
if the serial code for core game and HoT are separate there wont be such rage over every forum

General Health.9678:

Galen Grey.4709:

I honestly dont understand how this all has started because on the whole Arenanet are really great.

GW2 is great, Anet are pretty rubbish.
They should really take the $100 I’m going to spend on the expansion and use some of it to investigate why I, along with many other people, think this.

thanks that really helped me understand how this all started

CoRtex.2157:

Tere.4759:

CoRtex.2157:

This is just nonsense. Arenanet are people too… like what?! That doesn’t mean anything.
Thiefs are people too,, scammers are people too,, suicide bombers are people too…

And these are all true, but what are you trying to say???

And about the whole music and art stuff… Ok i’ll create a song,, 1min long and please give me 10$ for it, ok? It’s a rip-off. That’s the point.

You have no idea if it’s a rip off or not. You are making an assumption that the content won’t be worth the price. Have you ever played WOW? Take a look at the other MMOs out there, yes the ones you actually pay money to play, and see how much they charge for an expansion. You consider this a rip off. I do not.

I’ve played wow,, didn’t play it alot though,, i like GW1 more. But i have all expansions and really,, wow expansions are pretty cheap if you see all the content they have. And yes. I don’t know what HoT will have. But it doesn’t have much from what i’ve seen. So… I have to pay €45 for content that might not be there. You can expect dungeons.. doesn’t mean it will have dungeons.

Basicly as a PvE player i’m paying 45€ + 10€ (slot) for “The Heart
of Maguuma” + “Revenant Class”

WoW expansions are pretty cheap but you’re still paying $15 a month. Where do you think that money goes? To running the servers? We know servers aren’t that expensive. WoW’s expansions are quite large, but believe me, you’re not just paying $40 for them. And the new one was $50 anyway.

No one has ever said they have not put in lots of work on the xpac. What we are saying is that the pricing and bundling are shady/dubious and a good many people won’t be buying into it.

I know I’m going to be “speaking with my wallet” this time around. I have other games coming out in the next year I know I will get far more enjoyment out of than GW2.

This was a bad move on their part. Full stop.

Unloveableone.6082:

This article sums up basically everything there is about this whole fiasco and everyone should read it.
http://www.killtenrats.com/2015/06/18/gw2-lash-and-love/

They’ve worked kitten this expansion. It’s their life. What they put their hard work and passion into. Some of you think they’re just greedy dirtbags that want to screw you over…why? Have you ever created a work of art? A painting? A musical piece? A game? A story?
How would you feel if when you announced that it was ready for purchase, people spat on it. People lashed out at you on not only your official accounts, but your personal ones to.
How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?
You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

But being complete jerks about all of this is revolting and reflects poorly on us as a community. And think of the devs. They have feelings too. And I’m sure many are upset right now. This may just be an expansion to you, but it’s much more than that to them.

Arenanet, thank you for all you have done. For putting the time and effort into giving us an amazing series of games that only get better as time goes on. I’ve been looking forward to HoT since it was announced and cannot wait.
Keep the amazing work

People in Suits made these decisions not the worker bees behind the loading screen art.

Galen Grey.4709:

Who is forcing you to rebuy the game again? they’re not charging you anything for it. This is all people twisting things to suite their arguments, Arenanet made it pretty clear the bundled core game is free. Arguing you’re being forced to pay for it would be akin anyone arguing that after being forced to buy FFXIV 1.0 they were then forced to pay for it again when they released 2.0!

nah, i have FFXIV 1.0 and i dont have to buy FFXIV again when 2.0 was release
and i can buy only the expansion upgrade for 3.0

yeah, of coz the core game come with HoT is a “free bonus”
which this one of the worst marketing strategy
i do agree “when come to money, there are no friend” but keeping a happy customer is the key for longer success

As much as I love the picture of the sad little asura being comforted by the charr, and as much as it makes my heart go out to that sad little asura, it could just as easily — and meaningfully — show the asura, representing the players, holding a copy of HoT (artistic license, as there is no physical copy), with the charr (stick on some dark glasses) representing anet (the company), holding up two fingers behind the asura’s head.

It works both ways.

Galen Grey.4709:

So after all the content they gave us for free for 3 whole years they deserve to be attacked all out over $10 ? your HoT nice edition is litterally $10 cheaper and you’re happy to defend square enix and calling them the role model of how to threat customers even when they charge 50% more every single month then the amount of money you have issue with (thats $540 for 3 years) + $40 for the expansion. once again Arenanet get a different much higher standard, why?

also I am not sure this will make you happy but at least it should not sadden you as you say because rejoice there is indeed a title if you pre-order its the “Maguuma Trailblazer” title

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-is-available-for-pre-purchase/

Personally I agree a free character would be nice, I think they should keep their $50, well they really have no choice there now since they have sold prepurchases. But they should give a free character slot with the standard edition too. Hopefully people will be willing to bridge their difference over $5

You continue to missunderstand that the pricing is only part of the problem. The entire approach is what set people off and got this going.

And yes, people will go nuts when they feel cheated or betrayed or taken for suckers. The cash value over this is more often then not a side factor.

Me personally I could care less if the expansion costs 50,100 or 150,- $. I can afford to pay any price. What I do care about is not getting **** on and be expected to take it and ask for more.

If HoT were a standalone game and Anet was “gifting” the core game to them I’d be less prickly about this, but Anet already admitted that you NEED the core game to play HoT.

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

I have no problems with the devs or even the people who came up with the price. I am sure a lot of people feel the same way and you can tell they are working their lions off recently just by their web services having so much trouble right after prepurchases began. What the complaint is is about whoever made the decision to favour new customers over existing ones, especially since most of us were relying on (and assumed) a character slot so we could play the new class.

Tachenon.5270:

As much as I love the picture of the sad little asura being comforted by the charr, and as much as it makes my heart go out to that sad little asura, it could just as easily — and meaningfully — show the asura, representing the players, holding a copy of HoT (artistic license, as there is no physical copy), with the charr (stick on some dark glasses) representing anet (the company), holding up two fingers behind the asura’s head.

It works both ways.

Well it is a nice and maby could be a true picture as the Charr would reprecent Anet… Well in this case next picture would be of the Asura, the Charr and a Skritt that happens to be working for the Charr. The Asura in this picture has turned around punching the Skritt in the nuts.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

I am glad that people are pointing this out. Arenanet really just cannot win. When the game first came out they started giving gifts to people that had bought gems as a thank you. Guess what? The forums blew up with the people that had not bought gems because of how unfair it was and now they “had” to buy gems. It was a nice gesture and they were attacked by it. I also see people begging for SAB to come back. Do these people not remember how they torn the poor guy to shreds the last time it was out? They were absolutely cruel. I would not want to relive that if I were him either and maybe that is why there is no more SAB. Now we have this fiasco. I for one feel so bad for the employees and I hope that it settles down and once HOT does release it is a huge success.

Why does the discussion keep coming down to greed and the price of the expansion? For the number of hours of entertainment you get for your $50-$100 the price is very reasonable.

I went to the movies last night – $10.50 a ticket. So one movie: 2 hours = 5.25/hr. If I go to 5 movies in the evening (most expensive tickets), when I usually play GW2, then I’ve spent $52.50 for ~ 10 hours of entertainment. So – if I only spend 10 hours playing the expansion then I’ve done at least as well financially as going to see 5 movies. Renting does only slightly better if I watch the movie by myself. And that’s not even counting the intangibles like hanging out with friends in chat while playing or the fact that an MMO is an interactive experience vs a purely spectative one.

Arena Net is made up of people that are passionate about their game AND they are a business. Anyone that runs their own business will tell you that you shouldn’t undervalue your product. So why ask people that are passionate about what they do to sell their product at ridiculously low prices or complain that you haven’t seen the product yet? If you’re concerned, wait to purchase it.

It’s also a game – entertainment. Buy it or don’t buy it. Nobody owes you anything for participating in the past. It’s nice if your past support is honored in some way but if not – again nobody owes you anything. Frankly, as has been said before by others more eloquently, the amount of free content that I’ve enjoyed since my original purchase easily makes my original purchase insignificant. I haven’t seen the expansion, NOBODY has seen the expansion but based on history I’m guessing the same will be true.

Do as you will.

Cyninja.2954:

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Lets play a game
You tell me the account name and i will travel to US directly into the company .
At the gate when , i will look on the security guy and say : ’’Yo bro , i have working for 4,5 years as a security guard too , i feel your pain . As a Bro to a Bro , you will let me in /Raise Brofist :P
(i wanted to become Buttler , but the english …. man……)

If he bought the account for 40 dollars , i will beg them to refound them
If he bought it for 10 dollars , then playing for 6 months then…. i dont know…..made his money worth for this low investment.
If he is an alt account and mailing the T6 mats from the daily login , i will guarrantee to ban his main account too (the one that recieve the T6 mats)

So deal ? :P

Ringsound.7806:

Galen Grey.4709:

Who is forcing you to rebuy the game again? they’re not charging you anything for it. This is all people twisting things to suite their arguments, Arenanet made it pretty clear the bundled core game is free. Arguing you’re being forced to pay for it would be akin anyone arguing that after being forced to buy FFXIV 1.0 they were then forced to pay for it again when they released 2.0!

nah, i have FFXIV 1.0 and i dont have to buy FFXIV again when 2.0 was release
and i can buy only the expansion upgrade for 3.0

yeah, of coz the core game come with HoT is a “free bonus”
which this one of the worst marketing strategy
i do agree “when come to money, there are no friend” but keeping a happy customer is the key for longer success

I know and that is exactly my point. FFXIV gave 2.0 free to FFXIV 1.0.

Arenanet are giving GW2 free with HoT but people are insting they have to pay for Gw2 when they buy HoT when they dont need it which is incorrect just as it would be incorrect saying you had to pay again for FFXIV!

Cyninja.2954:

You continue to missunderstand that the pricing is only part of the problem. The entire approach is what set people off and got this going.

And yes, people will go nuts when they feel cheated or betrayed or taken for suckers. The cash value over this is more often then not a side factor.

Me personally I could care less if the expansion costs 50,100 or 150,- $. I can afford to pay any price. What I do care about is not getting **** on and be expected to take it and ask for more.

Yeah but what happens when people feel betrayed and cheated when in truth they’re not?

Arenanet didnt do anything different then any other company except for instead of charging extra for the base game they’re giving away for free. how is that betraying or cheating customers exactly?

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Cyninja.2954:

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Lets play a game
You tell me the account name and i will travel to US directly into the company .
At the gate when , i will look on the security guy and say : ’’Yo bro , i have working for 4,5 years as a security guard too , i feel your pain . As a Bro to a Bro , you will let me in /Raise Brofist :P
(i wanted to become Buttler , but the english …. man……)

If he bought the account for 40 dollars , i will beg them to refound them
If he bought it for 10 dollars , then playing for 6 months then…. i dont know…..made his money worth for this low investment.
If he is an alt account and mailing the T6 mats from the daily login , i will guarrantee to ban his main account too (the one that have been sending the T6 mats)

So deal ? :P

Let’s play a similar game. I provide a service you are enjoying and encourage you to get other to use that service too. I even give the people you bring along a discount and tell them:“We have an upcomming expansion comming out. You’ll be all set when buying in now since this will be required anyway.”

Now some of the new people start using the service right away, others were only interested in the expansion to begin with but they buy their base account already since it’s discounted.

I now bring out my expansion and tell everyone:“Oh by the way, thanks for buying the base account, but you’d have gotten that for free anyway. Thanks for giving us your money though.”

When that is one of your first expriences with a company, how many people do you think will stick around for more?

Galen Grey.4709:

Cyninja.2954:

You continue to missunderstand that the pricing is only part of the problem. The entire approach is what set people off and got this going.

And yes, people will go nuts when they feel cheated or betrayed or taken for suckers. The cash value over this is more often then not a side factor.

Me personally I could care less if the expansion costs 50,100 or 150,- $. I can afford to pay any price. What I do care about is not getting **** on and be expected to take it and ask for more.

Yeah but what happens when people feel betrayed and cheated when in truth they’re not?

Arenanet didnt do anything different then any other company except for instead of charging extra for the base game they’re giving away for free. how is that betraying or cheating customers exactly?

We can’t keep going in circles. Either you read the stuff I write or not. I’ve explained multiple times there are enough reasons for people to feel betrayed.

Here’s a catchword rundown:

- false advertisement of requirements
- insufficient information
- lack of customer retention incentives

You are correct though. What if people “feel” betrayed though they are not. How do you change some ones feelings on a subject matter? Well I can tell you what usualy does not work: telling them their feelings are wrong.

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Why should people that bought the core game in the last six months be compensated in any way? Did they get to enjoy the core game in that six months? How were they lured? It’s true that the core game is required to play the expansion. If they got the game during one of the sales then they’ve done extremely well in terms of cost. If they haven’t played the game during that time well – their problem – the world turns.

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Cyninja.2954:

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Lets play a game
You tell me the account name and i will travel to US directly into the company .
At the gate when , i will look on the security guy and say : ’’Yo bro , i have working for 4,5 years as a security guard too , i feel your pain . As a Bro to a Bro , you will let me in /Raise Brofist :P
(i wanted to become Buttler , but the english …. man……)

If he bought the account for 40 dollars , i will beg them to refound them
If he bought it for 10 dollars , then playing for 6 months then…. i dont know…..made his money worth for this low investment.
If he is an alt account and mailing the T6 mats from the daily login , i will guarrantee to ban his main account too (the one that have been sending the T6 mats)

So deal ? :P

Let’s play a similar game. I provide a service you are enjoying and encourage you to get other to use that service too. I even give the people you bring along a discount and tell them:“We have an upcomming expansion comming out. You’ll be all set when buying in now since this will be required anyway.”

Now some of the new people start using the service right away, others were only interested in the expansion to begin with but they buy their base account already since it’s discounted.

I now bring out my expansion and tell everyone:“Oh by the way, thanks for buying the base account, but you’d have gotten that for free anyway. Thanks for giving us your money though.”

When that is one of your first expriences with a company, how many people do you think will stick around for more?

I am sorry my english is not good atm :P
And i feel my eyes are trying to do a 360 degree flip flop ,each in different directions , so i cant think straight :P
If you can give me a name , i will try to think over your ’’game’’ :P

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

If you bought the game 6 months ago you had 6 months to play it, you were’nt exactly cheated especially if you bought it for $10

BUT once again Arenanet said they intend to freely upgrade anyone who bought the game “recently” just contact support. How far back recently stretches I have no clue.

But this isnt idle talk either its already happening:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

Michael.8562:

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Why should people that bought the core game in the last six months be compensated in any way? Did they get to enjoy the core game in that six months? How were they lured? It’s true that the core game is required to play the expansion. If they got the game during one of the sales then they’ve done extremely well in terms of cost. If they haven’t played the game during that time well – their problem – the world turns.

The core game gets “gifted” to you when buying HoT. So no, you do not require the core game.

Also the changes FAQ stating you require the GW2 core game leading people to believe they need the base game and expansion.

Cyninja.2954:

Michael.8562:

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Why should people that bought the core game in the last six months be compensated in any way? Did they get to enjoy the core game in that six months? How were they lured? It’s true that the core game is required to play the expansion. If they got the game during one of the sales then they’ve done extremely well in terms of cost. If they haven’t played the game during that time well – their problem – the world turns.

The core game gets “gifted” to you when buying HoT. So no, you do not require the core game.

Also the changes FAQ stating you require the GW2 core game leading people to believe they need the base game and expansion.

And then we wonder why Arenanet arent open with their communication as much as we would like.

Once again ANY change even a positive one gets used against them. Because lets be honest here this was actually a positive change. These people you’re claiming were so brutally cheated instead of spending anywhere between $60 to $110 in order to buy the game and expansion now they get to buy both for just $50 to $60 I am not sure why you feel even though this part didnt effect you personally in any way, you have to feel angry for them. They actually are much better off.

Yes, yes they are. I appreciate all the work that they do. Truly. The comments against the community dev and other devs are UNCALLED for regarding the matter at hand.

We need to be very specific on who we aim at, and in this case it should be ArenaNet’s Marketing and PR department. I have no doubt that the Developers and Artists themselves worked really hard.

But you know what they say, you are as strong as your weakest link, and the weakest link is…well…in a very bad spot.

I was significantly moved by the following.

I understand if people think they’re being slighted or if something is too expensive, but I’ll be kitten ed if I’m not ashamed that the portion of the community of which I am a part spitting poison all over what amounts to months, if not years of hard work are depended on in part to pay the people that made the expansion pretty and possible.

Arguments of fairness aside, that kitten aint cool bruh.

To any devs that have the bravery to peruse this amidst the backlash, you guys did excellently.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. Anyone, new or old, that joined after the September patch missed at least half of the things people reference to say are stuff the new folks never were here for but vets were.

its never acceptable to harass a dev……it’s also really unfortunate so many were hurt by the reaction to a very poor decision(s) by very few higher-ups at the company they work for (or the company their company works for).

this, of course, doesn’t change the situation….but hopefully it gives those critical of the pre-purchase launch (which i’m one of) proper perspective on where/how to direct your saltiness.