Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

I thought we established that Guild Wars playstyle and fans were irrelevant in Guild Wars 2 back in November 2012…

Actually we established Guild Wars 1 players who share your play style don’t seem to be happy. I, however, play this game much the same way I played Guild Wars 1 and I can’t do that with almost any other MMO.

Wait and you’re the guy that played Guild Wars 1 for 1 year? Lol. You don’t know what GW1 is.

Chuo.4238:

Clearly you represent all of us, then. I stand corrected.

What was it you said, last week, about my posts?

I’ve found that guy true identity…

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Chuo.4238:

Clearly you represent all of us, then. I stand corrected.

What was it you said, last week, about my posts?

I’ve found that guy true identity…

FOOLS! Excalibur :p

Guild Wars 1
——————
1. Released an entire campaign plus Sorrows Furnace within the first year.
2. Thousands of skills per profession.
3. Secondary professions = endless build options per profession.
4. Level 20 cap and horizontal progression.
5. Guild vs. Guild.
6. Cash shop is fair and respectable.
7. No stat grinding.
8. Content that is hard because of fun and interesting mechanics.
9. Map travel is free.
10. All titles are obtainable.
11. Mission are repeatable.
12. Lore is interesting and meaningful.
13. Runs amazing on low end machines.
14. Story is cinematic and engaging.
15. All character bag inventory is free.
16. Good NPC AI.
17. Quests have meaningful lore.
18. Heroes.
19. Permanent content.
20. Random minis in BDAY gifts.
21. Hard Mode.
22. Can wear costumes everywhere, even in battle.
23. Player base is universal.
24. Change districts anytime you want and play with anyone anytime!
25. Alliances.
26. Guild Capes.
27. You can be a healer.

Guild Wars 2
——————
1. Released 9 mini dungeons, 1 dungeon path and removed 1 dungeon path.
2. 30-50 skills per profession.
3. Less than 8 competitive build options per profession.
4. Level 80 grind and no horizontal progression.
5. No PvP activities for Guilds.
6. Cash shop is excessive greedy.
7. Gear grinding.
8. Content that is hard because bosses have high HP and one shot mechanics.
9. Map travel costs silver.
10. Many titles are time restricted and can no longer be obtained.
11. Missions are not repeatable.
12. Lore is childish, inconsistent and predictable.
13. Runs OK on low end machines.
14. Story is not engaging, shows no emotion and only 2 characters can be seen on the screen.
15. Most character bag inventory is expensive.
16. Simple NPC AI that only requires damage.
17. Events have generic, “Help” or “Defend” audio.
18. No Heroes.
19. Temporary content.
20. Same mini in everyone’s BDAY gift.
21. Sad Panda.
22. Can not wear costumes in battle.
23. Player base is split between regions and servers.
24. Guesting once every 24 hours, can not play with anyone anytime!
25. No alliances.
26. Cute backpacks that make girls say, “Awwww”.
27. You can not be a healer.

I could go on and on about how ArenaNet abandoned Guild Wars 1 and then spit on their player base.

They took most (if not all) of the features that people LOVED about the first game and stripped them out of the design plans for Guild Wars 2. ArenaNet was determined to make Guild Wars 2 nothing, NOTHING at all like the first game and they were successful.

My conclusion is that AreanNet does not like Guild Wars 1.

9. Map travel is free.

Actually the cost was being forced into missions you may not have wanted to take because you couldn’t explore unless those were done.
Nightfall had those problems and if I remember right Prophecies had some too.

In GW2 I can walk around darn near everywhere without being forced in a mission.

2. Thousands of skills per profession.

So does that include the Cantha/Elona skills that were basically the same ones from Prophecies but with different text?

3. Secondary professions = endless build options per profession.

Which was true, but also some professions either competed with each other for energy or had little to no synergy. Oh you could do something with those, but you were really handicapped at times.

18. No Heroes.

Thank the spirits and the six for that!
Don’t get me wrong they were handy sometimes, but ultimately grouping up in GW1 was rare unless you were in a guild that liked doing it.

dekou.6012:

It’s not. Factions released a year after Prophecies, so we’re at the Factions stage, except with no expansion in sight.

They never stated that they would be following the 6mo to a year timeline for expansions. until an expansion is released, or a significant expansion type update is released, gw2 is still in its ‘initial phase’ its still only one game. GW1 is factually 3 and an expansion

thedrumchannell.2405:

Guild Wars 1
snip

+ Better prestigious armors
(comparing this gw1 armor with the real ascended would be too unfair so I’ll use an enhanced version designed by one of the member of my guild).

i miss team arenas man i miss GVG the elite way of pvp HA and all of that instead we get CONQEST WOW pille of kitten whic is forcing me not to touch the s pvp at all they dont like to seperate players from one type of play stile cuz they are afraid that the arenas gona be empty over time whic is bloody stupid and sorry for the bad english

I had to laugh a bit about number 16 and thinking about Alesia.

Have to chime in one the side of being a GW1 vet who doesn’t feel betrayed, abandoned, forgotten, etc. … are there aspects of GW1 I wish were in GW2? Sure. But, by the same token, I wish there were aspects of CoH (RIP) (costume creation and flying) in GW2 and even aspects of PotC in GW2 (owning a ship and sailing to Southsun would be awesome). And I don’t feel my experience with GW2, or the time I’ve spent playing it, have been wasted because it lacks those aspects, as it brings so much else to the table.

I know this isn’t the answer for everyone, but if I truly longed for Cantha that much or Elona, or EotN, then I’d just log back into GW1 and go wander around those areas. I know no new content is being developed or released, but what I did enjoy about it is still there. But, as another poster or two mentioned, the few times I’ve logged back into GW1, it wasn’t long before I was logging back out again because I wasn’t enjoying myself the way I do in GW2.

mojowalker.3798:

Have to chime in one the side of being a GW1 vet who doesn’t feel betrayed, abandoned, forgotten, etc. … are there aspects of GW1 I wish were in GW2? Sure. But, by the same token, I wish there were aspects of CoH (RIP) (costume creation and flying) in GW2 and even aspects of PotC in GW2 (owning a ship and sailing to Southsun would be awesome). And I don’t feel my experience with GW2, or the time I’ve spent playing it, have been wasted because it lacks those aspects, as it brings so much else to the table.

I know this isn’t the answer for everyone, but if I truly longed for Cantha that much or Elona, or EotN, then I’d just log back into GW1 and go wander around those areas. I know no new content is being developed or released, but what I did enjoy about it is still there. But, as another poster or two mentioned, the few times I’ve logged back into GW1, it wasn’t long before I was logging back out again because I wasn’t enjoying myself the way I do in GW2.

The big question to ask is:

Would so many GW1 fans buy this game knowing there were not going to be any additional zones so far? Knowing the atrocities their “art” team is doing? How the lore of the game is being put aside for lame excuses to use the gem store?

As a GW1 fan, I bought this because of the following that I knew at the time:
- It is set 250 years into the future, so now the game could have a fresh start while still giving the chance to incorporate older stuff when need be. It didn’t have to cling completely to the first GW1.

- The graphics are beautiful and there’s no instanced maps like in GW1. I could roam around wherever I please and have more freedom compared to the predecessor.

- They were going to focus on Kryta and the Tyrian continent more than Cantha and Elona. At the time I didn’t know if they were going to ever add them or not, but it didn’t bother me.

- The game promoted Destiny’s Edge, a guild, instead of Rurik who I didn’t really value too much. Granted then the game really showed that Trahearne had more focus in the storyline, I was underwhelmed by him.

I wouldn’t call their art in GW2 “atrocities”, because that is hyperbolic nonsense.
It demeans the actual word atrocity, if folks don’t like the art that’s all due to taste.

Near 7 year GW1 player here. I don’t know about “betrayed” but GW2 is a let down for me personally. Just re-installed Guild Wars and am surprised by the number of people who say the same thing about GW2 as a lot here do. I suggest all those that feel this way get back into GW1 with me! lol There’s still a decent community. SC’s still being done, PvP’s still going ( though on the decline ), people are still doing HM content, Ecto’s at 11 for 100k etc.

I honestly question those that claim to be “vets” and don’t feel the same way. I’m sure there’s some that enjoy the new approach, but from what I see here in the community, and from the people I’ve talked to in-game GW1, it is the majority, not the minority that dislike it.

Copestetic.5174:

I honestly question those that claim to be “vets” and don’t feel the same way. I’m sure there’s some that enjoy the new approach, but from what I see here in the community, and from the people I’ve talked to in-game GW1, it is the majority, not the minority that dislike it.

There’s a perfectly reasonable hypothesis staring right at you about that.
The vets who actually do like, or don’t mind the changes, are playing GW2 at the moment.

If you go to GW1 of course the dislikers will be the majority.

For me this game is completely different then Gw1.I loved GW1 cause was an unique game…game that was never seen before.First time i was introduced to Gw was "Factions"and i was amazed.First thing that i loved alot was that everything was about humans and there was no other races to play…i remember that i was like “finally only game with no freak-like races”.But after i started Gw2 i dont mind races anymore….what i do mind is that game lost that “something”,that signature that GW1 had that made him unique and memorable,this game now is typical fantasy world that kinda looks like mix between WOW and DC online.Gw1 was about humans,about cultures,Cantha was amazing and introducing assassin class there was just epic…sure game lack of mechanics comparing to GW2 and graphic but GW2 lacks of GW1 spirit.I think people are tired of killing Dragons…we kill them in Dragon Age,Skyrim,Witcher2…we kill them everywhere we turn around…i want to fight humans,i want story about humans,i want Cantha…..but i doubt we gonna get that anytime soon

@OP, The decision to destroy Ascalon was a slap to the face of the original Guild Wars players, that was the first sign indicating that they no longer care about the players or the lore.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

I thought we established that Guild Wars playstyle and fans were irrelevant in Guild Wars 2 back in November 2012…

Actually we established Guild Wars 1 players who share your play style don’t seem to be happy. I, however, play this game much the same way I played Guild Wars 1 and I can’t do that with almost any other MMO.

Clearly you represent all of us, then. I stand corrected.

What was it you said, last week, about my posts?

In your post here, you clearly state that Guild Wars 1 playstyle and fans are irrelevant…there’s no qualifier at all and there’s no way you can mean anything but what that sounds like it says.

This directly affects me, since I had a Guild Wars 1 playstyle and I consider myself a Guild Wars 1 fan.

If you’re going to talk for me, I’m going to respond.

I think I would have been happy if they … Took GW1, made it graphically better, added the jumping, and added WvW (or a good scale war – not AB’s, more massive).

Btw I think it’s safe to say that the manifesto can be considered non-existent. I think it was just a marketing gimmick… You can kitten all over their manifesto with the current game they have…
“We had to make changes, but nothing is ‘Off the table’” – should have slipped that line in the manifesto, then the manifesto would have been true at least.

I think it’s because most of the Devs that worked on gw1 have left

My guild at GW2 launch was mostly from our GW Alliance. There were maybe 50 people playing the game in the guild. Now, there are only two of us left playing, and I only play when the other one wants to. Most of them left because they thought GW2 PvP was poor by comparison to what they could get elsewhere. The last one to stop playing left because of Ascended.

There may be a lot of GW1 players who like GW2, but you cannot prove it by me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

My guild at GW2 launch was mostly from our GW Alliance. There were maybe 50 people playing the game in the guild. Now, there are only two of us left playing, and I only play when the other one wants to. Most of them left because they thought GW2 PvP was poor by comparison to what they could get elsewhere. The last one to stop playing left because of Ascended.

There may be a lot of GW1 players who like GW2, but you cannot prove it by me.

I’m in the same boat. About 90% of the people I knew from GW1 jumped on GW2 once it released. While I stood defiant on getting sucked back into another MMO once I quit GW1 last year, they were playing 2. I probably got a good 20 or so e-mails telling me to suck it up and nerd another 5-7 years of my life on it.

I get it three months ago…they’re never online. I’ve seen a few log on from time to time, but I’d wager not longer than an hour after we’re done BS’ing. People can “white knight” this game as much as they want. But they’re never going to convince me that it’s a good sequel to Guild Wars.

Could it be good? Sure, in another year or two. Until then, I’ll be hanging-out in 1.

RoRo.8270:

I think it’s because most of the Devs that worked on gw1 have left

Source? From my count there are still many who worked on Guild Wars 1 still working in the company.

What you have instead, rather than having so many left, is you have 250 more devs than in Guild Wars 1’s time. That means only a small percentage of devs working on the game worked on Guild Wars 1, even if they stayed.

IndigoSundown.5419:

My guild at GW2 launch was mostly from our GW Alliance. There were maybe 50 people playing the game in the guild. Now, there are only two of us left playing, and I only play when the other one wants to. Most of them left because they thought GW2 PvP was poor by comparison to what they could get elsewhere. The last one to stop playing left because of Ascended.

There may be a lot of GW1 players who like GW2, but you cannot prove it by me.

The thing is, my experience isn’t with Guild Wars 1 PvPers it’s with Guild Wars 1 PvE’ers. And that’s a whole different boat.

I’ve said repeatedly that Guild Wars 2 must be a big letdown for the PvP players. I’ve also said repeatedly that as Guild Wars 1 progressed, the focus shifted away from PvP and toward PvE. There are far more PvE achievements in Guild Wars 1 and the last two expansions didn’t add any PvP. The game switched focus.

In fact, many PvPers left Guild Wars 1 in disgust as the game got more and more PvE focused.

Which means for the last few years, Guild Wars 1 would have likely fielded more PvE’ers than PvPer’s. Take also into account the fact that Guild Wars 1 PvP was notoriously hard to get into for newcomers to the game. The community often wasn’t welcoming, the metas were quite complicated and if you came to the party late, you may very well have been discouraged.

I completely agree many Guild Wars 1 PvPers probably don’t like Guild Wars 2. I never, however, claimed to talk for PvPers.

raptor.1064:

Anet hates GW1 players because they expect GW1 quality updates

they would be happy if all the GW1 players quit forever and stopped complaining

This
So true
GW1 is 100000000 more fun than GW2

I am a GW1 player, I like it but it feels so boring now after GW2

Copestetic.5174:

Near 7 year GW1 player here. I don’t know about “betrayed” but GW2 is a let down for me personally. Just re-installed Guild Wars and am surprised by the number of people who say the same thing about GW2 as a lot here do. I suggest all those that feel this way get back into GW1 with me! lol

Please, please listen to Copestetic. If GW1 is the absolute game for you, go for it.

Erick Alastor.3917:

I’ll try to post it again and if this lead (again) to the thread cancellation: my apologies.

From Eurogamer Expo 2013
Q: How close are you to the manifesto you posted before the game’s release?
A: Still hold core values but had to make some adjustments during development. Sometimes we have to stray away from what we have said in the past.

Let’s see what was declared with the manifesto:

Points they are still close to:

• The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic.
• Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.

Points from which they have decided to stray away:
- Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world.

• B2P sustaining itself mainly through the release of new campaigns. No.
• GvG? No.
• Guild halls. No.
• Guild capes. No.
• UW? FoW? Alliance battle? No.
• Focus on Horizontal progression? No.
• Secondary profession? No.
• Region free servers? No.
• Alliance system? No.
• Skills capturing? No.
• Heroes? No.
• Low and persisting level cap? No.
• Hard Mode? No.
• Costumes? No.
• Dances differentiated by profession and gender. No.
• Lore. Are you serious?
• Etc etc. No. xD

- A game that defies existing conventions: (old school Mmorpg vs. Guild Wars 2)

• Vertical Progression. -> Vertical Progression (but slower)
• Farming. -> Farming.
• Quest system. -> Renamed: Hearts, Dailies, Living Story.
• Raid. -> (World Bosses?) ~ Work in progress ~
• Trinity. DPS/Tank/Healer -> Redefined: Warrior-Guardian-Mesmer

- We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

• Open PvE: Join the zerg spam 1, dodge if required (if not, you will roam alone in an almost dead world)
• Interact with “put some random object name” in the world for hundreds of times.
• Kill “put some random mob name” in the world for hundreds of times.

- As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing.

• Run in circle (Frostgorge/Queensdale/…) to kill Champions doing the same things others are doing and in the same order at the same time.
• You make all the hard work during the personal story, a salad take the credits.

- We respect you—as a player, as a human being.

• So they decided to totally ignore our feedback on forum and close every thread that disagree with their decisions, without giving us any response.

Yes it is the money what they want and WOW is making money.

Assyrian.4827:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Snip

Yes it is the money what they want and WOW is making money.

Okay this post is misleading because much of this stuff was known..and well know pre launch. It wasn’t or shouldn’t have come as a surprise to anyone because Anet said directly what they were doing. Let’s look at the list.

• B2P sustaining itself mainly through the release of new campaigns. No.

Anet said prior to launch that the cash shop would play a larger role in supporting this game.

• GvG? No.

Anet said all along there would be no GvG.

• Guild halls. No.

Anet didn’t say their would be no guild halls, only no guild halls at launch. It’s still on the feature list and still being worked on.

• Guild capes. No.

Really? Guild capes are a major feature of the game? Right.

• UW? FoW? Alliance battle? No.

Anet said straight out that the only type of SPvP in the game at launch would be conquest and they explained why. You shouldn’t have bought the game if you wanted alliance battles (not that SPvP as all that different from alliance battles anyway).

• Focus on Horizontal progression? No.

Fair comment.

• Secondary profession? No.

We knew there would be no secondary profession years before launch. Give me a break.

• Region free servers? No.

We knew that servers would have regions well over a year before launch as well.

• Alliance system? No.

Fair comment.

• Skills capturing? No.

We knew there would be no skill capping well before launch.

• Heroes? No.

We knew there would be no heroes well before launch.

• Low and persisting level cap? No.

We knew there would be a higher level cap well before launch it was even in the Guild Wars 2 FAQ.

• Hard Mode? No.

Possibly a fair comment.

• Costumes? No.

We have town clothes, not costumes. It’s not handled the same way, but there’s no way you can say we don’t have costumes.

• Dances differentiated by profession and gender. No.

Again, not a major selling point for most people.

• Lore. Are you serious?

There’s plenty of nods to Guild Wars 1 veterans in this game.

This poster is being completely disingenuous. He’s listed a bunch of things Anet was very clear about not being in the game (for almost all of them) and then tries to say that Anet didn’t put them in the game. Well yeah…they said they weren’t going to put them in the game.

Coming after the launch and saying something isn’t in the game that Anet said pre-launch wasn’t in the game just shows a lack of homework on the part of the poster.

This is like when you have an argument with your wife and she brings up everything you’ve ever done wrong. Most of it isn’t pertinent to the current argument.

I was an avid PvE’r and GW2 feels like GW1 in name and lore only. The gameplay between the two is entirely different. GW2 has gameplay in a similar vein to MMOs, GW1 felt more like an online-only traditional CRPG more than any MMO.

Not to say I didn’t dabble in the PvP, though. I didn’t PvP as much as I PvE’d but I still LOVED it, loved watching it, and was always interested to see where they were taking it (which was into the ground, sadly).

raptor.1064:

Anet hates GW1 players because they expect GW1 quality updates

they would be happy if all the GW1 players quit forever and stopped complaining

Funny, I’mma GW1 player – was when it started, was for all the “expansions”, was for many years – and I’m mostly happy with the game. I prepurchased the game because I was a GW1 lover and ya know what – GW2 fixed almost all the things I’d wished were better with the first game.

Are there some things that could be better? >>shrug<< Sure, there are always things what could be better; but it’s still the best MMO on the market for my money.

Vayne.8563:

clint.5681:

I love gw1 but they better not add heros/henchmen. Killed all grouping in gw1

And this is the problem of "everything you love about Guild Wars 1. Here’s a Guild Wars 1 player who doesn’t want heroes and henchmen, yet we’ve seen people on this forum who loved having access to heroes and henchmen and have asked for them to be brought into the game.

There isn’t just one type of Guild Wars 1 fan..there are many and they don’t all necessarily want the same things.

When I ask people to tell me what they loved about GW1 it usually the awesome classes, the awesome skills and builds they used, the awesome times pvping, the builds they used to beat certain dungeons and get rewards they were proud of. WHERE THE kitten IS ANY OF THAT? All I got on my PC is WOW jr with an Aion grind and dodging.

Relentliss.2170:

Vayne.8563:

clint.5681:

I love gw1 but they better not add heros/henchmen. Killed all grouping in gw1

And this is the problem of "everything you love about Guild Wars 1. Here’s a Guild Wars 1 player who doesn’t want heroes and henchmen, yet we’ve seen people on this forum who loved having access to heroes and henchmen and have asked for them to be brought into the game.

There isn’t just one type of Guild Wars 1 fan..there are many and they don’t all necessarily want the same things.

When I ask people to tell me what they loved about GW1 it usually the awesome classes, the awesome skills and builds they used, the awesome times pvping, the builds they used to beat certain dungeons and get rewards they were proud of. WHERE THE kitten IS ANY OF THAT? All I got on my PC is WOW jr with an Aion grind and dodging.

We must have played with different people. While I was the only “build guy” in my guild, I’m pretty sure most people went to PvX wiki, got a build and never thought twice about it.

The guys who loved to build are few and far between and generally far more attached to Guild Wars 1 than the average casual player. It’s like theorycrafters in other games. Min/maxers. They’re never the majority…for a reason. You have to have that mindset and be pretty intelligent. Most games are of average intelligence and don’t delve that deeply into the game. So you talk to the top 15, maybe 20 percent and sure. They loved it.

What about the other percentage that just logs in and plays and pretty much takes things at face value?

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason, and those builds were both the strength and the downfall of the game. Anet changed it for a reason and the reason they changed it is valid…in my opinion.

Is it as much fun, build-wise? No.

But they were very up front with exactly what builds in this game would be like long before launch.

You can “move on” while retaining stuff that actually made the original so distinct from other games.

Elite skill capping (so I can actually make effort to get the elite I want not just pick it up from my hero panel), highly specific boss weapons (yes Rotscale I am looking at you), “on the fly” attribute changes which didn’t cost a dime, Guild halls (how hard is it to create one instance that can be reused by all guilds!?), hard mode (so you can choose how hard you want your content to be and be rewarded appropriately), faction points which felt way more useful from glory (why wouldn’t Asura be able to represent different colleges in sPvP, Charr different legions or even better make a factions separation based on the order players joined – Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory?)…

I could go on for days about this topic because for me personally “move on and forget about the original” is simply not a valid argument for something that is actually supposed to continue the legacy of a game that was loved by so many people because it was so specific. In the end it is not about whether the developers can implement stuff that was specific for the original, just if they want to.

holodoc.5748:

You can “move on” while retaining stuff that actually made the original so distinct from other games.

Elite skill capping (so I can actually make effort to get the elite I want not just pick it up from my hero panel), highly specific boss weapons (yes Rotscale I am looking at you), “on the fly” attribute changes which didn’t cost a dime, Guild halls (how hard is it to create one instance that can be reused by all guilds!?), hard mode (so you can choose how hard you want your content to be and be rewarded appropriately), faction points which felt way more useful from glory (why wouldn’t Asura be able to represent different colleges in sPvP, Charr different legions or even better make a factions separation based on the order players joined – Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory?)…

I could go on for days about this topic because for me personally “move on and forget about the original” is simply not a valid argument for something that is actually supposed to continue the legacy of a game that was loved by so many people because it was so specific. In the end it is not about whether the developers can implement stuff that was specific for the original, just if they want to.

Tend to agree. By now, though, I think it’s fairly obvious that they just wanted to use the “Guild Wars” name to sell their product. The spirit behind Guild Wars was left in Guild Wars. This wasn’t “moving on”. This was just capitalizing on a brand name, and making something completely different.

Had they not called it “Guild Wars 2”, I think a lot of the disappointed Guild Wars fans wouldn’t have been so disappointed. But because of the name, we expected something in the same spirit as Guild Wars, which just isn’t Guild Wars 2.

Had they called it anything that didn’t have the words “Guild Wars” in the title, people would haven’t had those expectations.

Chuo.4238:

holodoc.5748:

You can “move on” while retaining stuff that actually made the original so distinct from other games.

Elite skill capping (so I can actually make effort to get the elite I want not just pick it up from my hero panel), highly specific boss weapons (yes Rotscale I am looking at you), “on the fly” attribute changes which didn’t cost a dime, Guild halls (how hard is it to create one instance that can be reused by all guilds!?), hard mode (so you can choose how hard you want your content to be and be rewarded appropriately), faction points which felt way more useful from glory (why wouldn’t Asura be able to represent different colleges in sPvP, Charr different legions or even better make a factions separation based on the order players joined – Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory?)…

I could go on for days about this topic because for me personally “move on and forget about the original” is simply not a valid argument for something that is actually supposed to continue the legacy of a game that was loved by so many people because it was so specific. In the end it is not about whether the developers can implement stuff that was specific for the original, just if they want to.

Tend to agree. By now, though, I think it’s fairly obvious that they just wanted to use the “Guild Wars” name to sell their product. The spirit behind Guild Wars was left in Guild Wars. This wasn’t “moving on”. This was just capitalizing on a brand name, and making something completely different.

Had they not called it “Guild Wars 2”, I think a lot of the disappointed Guild Wars fans wouldn’t have been so disappointed. But because of the name, we expected something in the same spirit as Guild Wars, which just isn’t Guild Wars 2.

Had they called it anything that didn’t have the words “Guild Wars” in the title, people would haven’t had those expectations.

Agreed. But honestly and unfortunately, I think ANet’s always had a badrep with expectations. When I first got into GW1, I had little to no experience with MMOs. I knew WoW was popular and that was all. So without that reference, seeing the words “free to play!” on the box gave me pause: “‘Free-to-play online RPG’…like what I did in Diablo? I don’t get it”

Smith.1826:

Chuo.4238:

holodoc.5748:

You can “move on” while retaining stuff that actually made the original so distinct from other games.

Elite skill capping (so I can actually make effort to get the elite I want not just pick it up from my hero panel), highly specific boss weapons (yes Rotscale I am looking at you), “on the fly” attribute changes which didn’t cost a dime, Guild halls (how hard is it to create one instance that can be reused by all guilds!?), hard mode (so you can choose how hard you want your content to be and be rewarded appropriately), faction points which felt way more useful from glory (why wouldn’t Asura be able to represent different colleges in sPvP, Charr different legions or even better make a factions separation based on the order players joined – Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory?)…

I could go on for days about this topic because for me personally “move on and forget about the original” is simply not a valid argument for something that is actually supposed to continue the legacy of a game that was loved by so many people because it was so specific. In the end it is not about whether the developers can implement stuff that was specific for the original, just if they want to.

Tend to agree. By now, though, I think it’s fairly obvious that they just wanted to use the “Guild Wars” name to sell their product. The spirit behind Guild Wars was left in Guild Wars. This wasn’t “moving on”. This was just capitalizing on a brand name, and making something completely different.

Had they not called it “Guild Wars 2”, I think a lot of the disappointed Guild Wars fans wouldn’t have been so disappointed. But because of the name, we expected something in the same spirit as Guild Wars, which just isn’t Guild Wars 2.

Had they called it anything that didn’t have the words “Guild Wars” in the title, people would haven’t had those expectations.

Agreed. But honestly and unfortunately, I think ANet’s always had a badrep with expectations. When I first got into GW1, I had little to no experience with MMOs. I knew WoW was popular and that was all. So without that reference, seeing the words “free to play!” on the box gave me pause: “‘Free-to-play online RPG’…like what I did in Diablo? I don’t get it”

I don’t think anyone had many expectations with Guild Wars – it was something new. Perhaps ArenaNet made Guild Wars into the fun game it was in spite of themselves, but I also tend to think that it’s got lots to do with the almost complete change in personnel between developing GW and GW2.

I realize that GW is a small game, but it seems to have done well for itself for what it is. I suppose you could say the same about GW2. I guess GW just had me fooled into thinking that ArenaNet were outside-the-box thinkers. GW2 has shown me that I had rose coloured glasses, and it’s actually rather second-rate.

Which, without those expectations from Guild Wars, wouldn’t have been a problem. But looking back at it, I see the creative genius from GW, if it ever was there, has quite left the company. So I guess I’ve fooled myself into thinking I’d have another 7 years of amazing fun with GW2.

They made what they made, and I naturally assumed from the outside-the-box nature of Guild Wars, the (in retrospect obviously) deliberately vague and open-to-interpretation Manifesto, and all that jazz about “when it’s ready”, that the MMO world was going to get hit with something very amazing and special.

My bad. I really should have known better.

Man, I don’t believe in saying “lower your expectations and you’ll be happier”. But looking back on the above paragraphis, that appears to be what I just said.

Kitten it. Nice work, ArenaNet. I’m dying to find out what your next big release will be. I’ll just assume it’s crap from the start, and then perhaps be pleasantly surprised. What a great reputation to have…

holodoc.5748:

You can “move on” while retaining stuff that actually made the original so distinct from other games.

Elite skill capping (so I can actually make effort to get the elite I want not just pick it up from my hero panel), highly specific boss weapons (yes Rotscale I am looking at you), “on the fly” attribute changes which didn’t cost a dime, Guild halls (how hard is it to create one instance that can be reused by all guilds!?), hard mode (so you can choose how hard you want your content to be and be rewarded appropriately), faction points which felt way more useful from glory (why wouldn’t Asura be able to represent different colleges in sPvP, Charr different legions or even better make a factions separation based on the order players joined – Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory?)…

I could go on for days about this topic because for me personally “move on and forget about the original” is simply not a valid argument for something that is actually supposed to continue the legacy of a game that was loved by so many people because it was so specific. In the end it is not about whether the developers can implement stuff that was specific for the original, just if they want to.

Sure you could go on for days, but you make a fundamental error in your logic. You’re assuming the things you listed were welcome by everyone or even most people. And really, do you know?

Take the drops from specific creatures. Do you have any idea how many times I ran Bogroot Growths with the hope of getting a Frog scepter. I can’t count them…and I never got one. That’s some how fun? That’s somehow not grind? Anet took that out because it bugged the hell out of some people. To some degree now they’ve put it back in anyway, with Tequatl if nothing else.

And then there’s the skill capture. It was okay. Not great, but okay. You could also buy for cash from the cash shop a skill unlock pack so all your heroes had access to those skills, which many considered pay to win and there was some discussion about that at the time.

But nothing annoyed me more than running out of an outpost in the Southern Shiverpeakes, trying to find the right boss to cap a skill from. It wasn’t fun for me. It was a stupid, cheap mechanic to me. It wasn’t playing the game. It was unnecessary busy work.

So yeah, they could have put that in, but I’d much rather not have to do it.

Vayne.8563:

Take the drops from specific creatures. Do you have any idea how many times I ran Bogroot Growths with the hope of getting a Frog scepter. I can’t count them…and I never got one. That’s some how fun? That’s somehow not grind? Anet took that out because it bugged the hell out of some people. To some degree now they’ve put it back in anyway, with Tequatl if nothing else.

Which is exactly how it’s supposed to work. It might sound cruel but not everyone is supposed to have everything just because he or she wishes for it. In reality if you don’t want things to lose on their value or prestige you have to make them rare and unobtainable for some people. That’s what made GW1 very special – you could go casual if you wanted to but on the other hand you could also try your luck in obtaining the “unobtainable” things which made you feel really special if you managed to succeed.

As far as Tequatl goes it would have been a prime example of that original value system transferred from GW1 to GW2. However given that the event is plagued by some design decisions which make the success of the event more dependent upon others than yourself in the end it is a poor candidate for what I am talking about. If Tequatl was instanced and fully adapted for the standard five man party (or even better a couple of parties) and had a high chance of dropping a weapon (or weaponset) highly specific for that event then that would be exactly what I am talking about.

BTW, elite skills were unobtainable from the shop, just the basic sets for all four campaigns (expansions).

Vayne.8563:

The thing is, my experience isn’t with Guild Wars 1 PvPers it’s with Guild Wars 1 PvE’ers. And that’s a whole different boat.

I’ve said repeatedly that Guild Wars 2 must be a big letdown for the PvP players. I’ve also said repeatedly that as Guild Wars 1 progressed, the focus shifted away from PvP and toward PvE. There are far more PvE achievements in Guild Wars 1 and the last two expansions didn’t add any PvP. The game switched focus.

In fact, many PvPers left Guild Wars 1 in disgust as the game got more and more PvE focused.

Which means for the last few years, Guild Wars 1 would have likely fielded more PvE’ers than PvPer’s. Take also into account the fact that Guild Wars 1 PvP was notoriously hard to get into for newcomers to the game. The community often wasn’t welcoming, the metas were quite complicated and if you came to the party late, you may very well have been discouraged.

I completely agree many Guild Wars 1 PvPers probably don’t like Guild Wars 2. I never, however, claimed to talk for PvPers.

This is an excellent point. I never got into GW1 PvP. I did it a few times, but never enjoyed it much. I was mostly PvE.

The same is true for GW2. I’ve played around in PvP a little, but don’t enjoy it much. I stay mostly in PvE and WvW.

Had I been big into GW1 PvP, I may feel differently.

holodoc.5748:

Vayne.8563:

Take the drops from specific creatures. Do you have any idea how many times I ran Bogroot Growths with the hope of getting a Frog scepter. I can’t count them…and I never got one. That’s some how fun? That’s somehow not grind? Anet took that out because it bugged the hell out of some people. To some degree now they’ve put it back in anyway, with Tequatl if nothing else.

Which is exactly how it’s supposed to work. It might sound cruel but not everyone is supposed to have everything just because he or she wishes for it. In reality if you don’t want things to lose on their value or prestige you have to make them rare and unobtainable for some people. That’s what made GW1 very special – you could go casual if you wanted to but on the other hand you could also try your luck in obtaining the “unobtainable” things which made you feel really special if you managed to succeed.

As far as Tequatl goes it would have been a prime example of that original value system transferred from GW1 to GW2. However given that the event is plagued by some design decisions which make the success of the event more dependent upon others than yourself in the end it is a poor candidate for what I am talking about. If Tequatl was instanced and fully adapted for the standard five man party (or even better a couple of parties) and had a high chance of dropping a weapon (or weaponset) highly specific for that event then that would be exactly what I am talking about.

BTW, elite skills were unobtainable from the shop, just the basic sets for all four campaigns (expansions).

Elite skills weren’t unattainable from the shop. You just couldn’t use them unless they were unlocked on your account…but every single one of your heroes could. And if you had an elite tome (which you could buy with gold or get from doing Zaishen Missions every day, you could use that to get the elite skill without ever capping it).

And there are other examples of weapons and such in Guild Wars 2 besides Zhaitan. Final Rest, for example is only available from the Shadow Behemoth.

But you know, the problem is, I didn’t find it fun. You think running that dungeon a lot and not getting that scepter is a good thing and I think it’s a terrible thing. It’s like when people try to get a precusor through the mystic forge and can’t do it.

It’s simply not fun.

The point is not what we knew that was/was not there at launch, the point is what is left today of the main selling points of gw1. In my opinion, not much.
And if you remove all of that, the “everything you loved about Gw1” is definitely a high-sounding but weak sentence designed to draw gw1 players in a misleading way.
I invite you to search how many references to the old gw1 players were made, how many sentences aimed at reassuring and comforting, how much communication with that community, and think about how we are totally ignored now.
All they are looking at are the numbers inside the game.
People that give them any form of negative feedback are considered a tiny minority, just a noise in their money rustling.
Excalibur can say what he want, but it’s really an hard work defending the indefensible.

Erick Alastor.3917:

thedrumchannell.2405:

Guild Wars 1
snip

+ Better prestigious armors
(comparing this gw1 armor with the real ascended would be too unfair so I’ll use an enhanced version designed by one of the member of my guild).

Sigh…. so depressing not having Assassin armor from GW1…. SOOOOO DEPRESSING. Every day.

Vayne.8563:

We must have played with different people. While I was the only “build guy” in my guild, I’m pretty sure most people went to PvX wiki, got a build and never thought twice about it.

The guys who loved to build are few and far between and generally far more attached to Guild Wars 1 than the average casual player. It’s like theorycrafters in other games. Min/maxers. They’re never the majority…for a reason. You have to have that mindset and be pretty intelligent. Most games are of average intelligence and don’t delve that deeply into the game. So you talk to the top 15, maybe 20 percent and sure. They loved it.

What about the other percentage that just logs in and plays and pretty much takes things at face value?

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason, and those builds were both the strength and the downfall of the game. Anet changed it for a reason and the reason they changed it is valid…in my opinion.

Is it as much fun, build-wise? No.

But they were very up front with exactly what builds in this game would be like long before launch.

There’s a middle ground between pvxwiki and individual theorycrafting. All it took was a sense of adventure and interest in trying something new. My guild—my alliance—was full of those people. In PvE and PvP—including all forms—we were always mixing it up.

We obviously had mixed results, especially in PvP, but for us it was all about fun and experimentation, which is entirely lacking in GW2. I have a feeling, though, when you say “build wars” you mean serious business.

Relying on sites like pvxwiki was one of the easiest way to get owned in PvP. It usually took skilled players just a a couple of seconds to recognize if someone was using a build from pvxwiki and counter it. In PvE it didn’t matter. If you wanted to use seven hero support that was fine but still the beauty of the original game was that you could create so many versatile builds and test them. That alone provided for a huge amount of fun time spent playing GW1.

holodoc.5748:

Relying on sites like pvxwiki was one of the easiest way to get owned in PvP. It usually took skilled players just a a couple of seconds to recognize if someone was using a build from pvxwiki and counter it. In PvE it didn’t matter. If you wanted to use seven hero support that was fine but still the beauty of the original game was that you could create so many versatile builds and test them. That alone provided for a huge amount of fun time spent playing GW1.

Sure…that’s what makes a game great. PWNing noobs who don’t know better. I’m not sure I miss that crowd at all.

I’m talking about PvE because it’s all I’m “qualified” to talk about.

holodoc.5748:

Relying on sites like pvxwiki was one of the easiest way to get owned in PvP. It usually took skilled players just a a couple of seconds to recognize if someone was using a build from pvxwiki and counter it. In PvE it didn’t matter. If you wanted to use seven hero support that was fine but still the beauty of the original game was that you could create so many versatile builds and test them. That alone provided for a huge amount of fun time spent playing GW1.

I was considering to take what you wrote and totally using it against you to make you look evil even if you are not, just for fun, but Excalibur preceded me

Vayne.8563:

Relentliss.2170:

Vayne.8563:

clint.5681:

I love gw1 but they better not add heros/henchmen. Killed all grouping in gw1

And this is the problem of "everything you love about Guild Wars 1. Here’s a Guild Wars 1 player who doesn’t want heroes and henchmen, yet we’ve seen people on this forum who loved having access to heroes and henchmen and have asked for them to be brought into the game.

There isn’t just one type of Guild Wars 1 fan..there are many and they don’t all necessarily want the same things.

When I ask people to tell me what they loved about GW1 it usually the awesome classes, the awesome skills and builds they used, the awesome times pvping, the builds they used to beat certain dungeons and get rewards they were proud of. WHERE THE kitten IS ANY OF THAT? All I got on my PC is WOW jr with an Aion grind and dodging.

We must have played with different people. While I was the only “build guy” in my guild, I’m pretty sure most people went to PvX wiki, got a build and never thought twice about it.

The guys who loved to build are few and far between and generally far more attached to Guild Wars 1 than the average casual player. It’s like theorycrafters in other games. Min/maxers. They’re never the majority…for a reason. You have to have that mindset and be pretty intelligent. Most games are of average intelligence and don’t delve that deeply into the game. So you talk to the top 15, maybe 20 percent and sure. They loved it.

What about the other percentage that just logs in and plays and pretty much takes things at face value?

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason, and those builds were both the strength and the downfall of the game. Anet changed it for a reason and the reason they changed it is valid…in my opinion.

Is it as much fun, build-wise? No.

But they were very up front with exactly what builds in this game would be like long before launch.

May times this! Its so much harder to have that mindset happen here and oh so happy for it! It still exists, but it almost a non-mention by players. I rarely every see in /map if ever, “What’s a good [trait] build for profession X or Y or Z (mainly cause zerker lol)?” When in gw 1, I always saw, “ping build plz” or “go to PvX” or people spammed builds in all channels. I usually used a mix of shared PvX builds and my own modifications (guilty as well) or, near the end of my gw 1 life (7 years), I made my own 7 hero team build. And I hated Discordway and sabway, it was cheap and uninspired and never used them or hated those that did.

As for heroes and henchmen, I for one wanted them gone! I wanted to play with others exlcusively. And In gw2, we still don’t play with anyone unless you run x armor set or build their way (or do wvw/sPvP)! It hasn’t changed at all frankly from GW 1. Its just a new version of the same dreaded animal that refuses to die or be put down.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Vayne.8563:

Relentliss.2170:

Vayne.8563:

clint.5681:

I love gw1 but they better not add heros/henchmen. Killed all grouping in gw1

And this is the problem of "everything you love about Guild Wars 1. Here’s a Guild Wars 1 player who doesn’t want heroes and henchmen, yet we’ve seen people on this forum who loved having access to heroes and henchmen and have asked for them to be brought into the game.

There isn’t just one type of Guild Wars 1 fan..there are many and they don’t all necessarily want the same things.

When I ask people to tell me what they loved about GW1 it usually the awesome classes, the awesome skills and builds they used, the awesome times pvping, the builds they used to beat certain dungeons and get rewards they were proud of. WHERE THE kitten IS ANY OF THAT? All I got on my PC is WOW jr with an Aion grind and dodging.

We must have played with different people. While I was the only “build guy” in my guild, I’m pretty sure most people went to PvX wiki, got a build and never thought twice about it.

The guys who loved to build are few and far between and generally far more attached to Guild Wars 1 than the average casual player. It’s like theorycrafters in other games. Min/maxers. They’re never the majority…for a reason. You have to have that mindset and be pretty intelligent. Most games are of average intelligence and don’t delve that deeply into the game. So you talk to the top 15, maybe 20 percent and sure. They loved it.

What about the other percentage that just logs in and plays and pretty much takes things at face value?

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason, and those builds were both the strength and the downfall of the game. Anet changed it for a reason and the reason they changed it is valid…in my opinion.

Is it as much fun, build-wise? No.

But they were very up front with exactly what builds in this game would be like long before launch.

May times this! Its so much harder to have that mindset happen here and oh so happy for it! It still exists, but it almost a non-mention by players. I rarely every see in /map if ever, “What’s a good [trait] build for profession X or Y or Z (mainly cause zerker lol)?” When in gw 1, I always saw, “ping build plz” or “go to PvX” or people spammed builds in all channels. I usually used a mix of shared PvX builds and my own modifications (guilty as well) or, near the end of my gw 1 life (7 years), I made my own 7 hero team build. And I hated Discordway and sabway, it was cheap and uninspired and never used them or hated those that did.

As for heroes and henchmen, I for one wanted them gone! I wanted to play with others exlcusively. And In gw2, we still don’t play with anyone unless you run x armor set or build their way (or do wvw/sPvP)! It hasn’t changed at all frankly from GW 1. Its just a new version of the same dreaded animal that refuses to die or be put down.

And this is why I say no one should talk for the Guild Wars 1 community as if they’re the voice of the community. The game had so many diverse player types, most of whom couldn’t agree on anything.

Chuo.4238:

Smith.1826:

Chuo.4238:

holodoc.5748:

You can “move on” while retaining stuff that actually made the original so distinct from other games.

Elite skill capping (so I can actually make effort to get the elite I want not just pick it up from my hero panel), highly specific boss weapons (yes Rotscale I am looking at you), “on the fly” attribute changes which didn’t cost a dime, Guild halls (how hard is it to create one instance that can be reused by all guilds!?), hard mode (so you can choose how hard you want your content to be and be rewarded appropriately), faction points which felt way more useful from glory (why wouldn’t Asura be able to represent different colleges in sPvP, Charr different legions or even better make a factions separation based on the order players joined – Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory?)…

I could go on for days about this topic because for me personally “move on and forget about the original” is simply not a valid argument for something that is actually supposed to continue the legacy of a game that was loved by so many people because it was so specific. In the end it is not about whether the developers can implement stuff that was specific for the original, just if they want to.

Tend to agree. By now, though, I think it’s fairly obvious that they just wanted to use the “Guild Wars” name to sell their product. The spirit behind Guild Wars was left in Guild Wars. This wasn’t “moving on”. This was just capitalizing on a brand name, and making something completely different.

Had they not called it “Guild Wars 2”, I think a lot of the disappointed Guild Wars fans wouldn’t have been so disappointed. But because of the name, we expected something in the same spirit as Guild Wars, which just isn’t Guild Wars 2.

Had they called it anything that didn’t have the words “Guild Wars” in the title, people would haven’t had those expectations.

Agreed. But honestly and unfortunately, I think ANet’s always had a badrep with expectations. When I first got into GW1, I had little to no experience with MMOs. I knew WoW was popular and that was all. So without that reference, seeing the words “free to play!” on the box gave me pause: “‘Free-to-play online RPG’…like what I did in Diablo? I don’t get it”

I don’t think anyone had many expectations with Guild Wars – it was something new. Perhaps ArenaNet made Guild Wars into the fun game it was in spite of themselves, but I also tend to think that it’s got lots to do with the almost complete change in personnel between developing GW and GW2.

I think a lot of people were expecting an MMO. YMMV, but if I earned an ecto for the times I’ve heard someone complain about the low level cap, the lack of a gear progression, or the instancing, I’d have enough Obsidian sets to make everyone happy! It got thrown in with the “MMO” crowd while having little in common with any of them, and them saying their game was “free-to-play” had a role in that methinks.