Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

And hearts are NOT standard questing. For one thing, hearts are only there to keep you in an area where dynamic events occur. That’s their sole function. You can fill in most hearts without doing them, but doing the dynamic events around them. You can also fill in hearts differently. Most hearts have a non-combat option. And then you don’t get the automatic quest reward that you don’t want from Guild Wars 1 or WoW. You get a currency to buy the quest reward you want from an unlocked heart

I’d agree that they’re different from “standard quests”, but I feel that the differences aren’t that profound. At the end of the day, they’re both asking you to fill a progress bar, be it in the form of a value (“do X thing Y times”) or an actual bar.

Having multiple ways to complete a quest is not a new concept in RPGs, neither is fulfilling the requirements of a quest before you receive it. Not having to talk to the questgiver at all is indeed something new and it’s cool that there’s the option to, but it’s also a bit nonsensical.

…And then you don’t get the automatic quest reward that you don’t want from Guild Wars 1 or WoW.

In WoW’s defense, there’s now a steady and nice gear progression from quests, with skins that are both hard to find and pretty decent looking. This has been since the Cata revamp.

Can’t comment too much on GW1’s quest rewards, it’s been a lot longer since I’ve done those.

This game sucks!
The devs made it seem like they were going to make the controls and the setup of the game like GW1 and they didn’t. This game isn’t even remotely similar to GW1. The beginning did not suck me in, it took too long to do anything. The skill sets are weird, how you have to have weapon sets to change your skill bar. The attribute system is completely different and everytime I decide that I’m going to try the game again so that my money didn’t go to waste there is NO ONE on!
Completely dead servers everytime I go on..
Then there is all these unlocks you do in every area, and it basically shows you where to go on the map…it’s just not as exciting as the first one.

The only things I appreciate from this game that I would have liked in GW1 would be the jumping, the graphics, and the auction house. Other than that, this game was a giant let down.
I couldn’t even get past the beginning… that says a lot considering I was super stoked about it ever since they stated the release.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

And hearts are NOT standard questing. For one thing, hearts are only there to keep you in an area where dynamic events occur. That’s their sole function. You can fill in most hearts without doing them, but doing the dynamic events around them. You can also fill in hearts differently. Most hearts have a non-combat option. And then you don’t get the automatic quest reward that you don’t want from Guild Wars 1 or WoW. You get a currency to buy the quest reward you want from an unlocked heart

I’d agree that they’re different from “standard quests”, but I feel that the differences aren’t that profound. At the end of the day, they’re both asking you to fill a progress bar, be it in the form of a value (“do X thing Y times”) or an actual bar.

Having multiple ways to complete a quest is not a new concept in RPGs, neither is fulfilling the requirements of a quest before you receive it. Not having to talk to the questgiver at all is indeed something new and it’s cool that there’s the option to, but it’s also a bit nonsensical.

…And then you don’t get the automatic quest reward that you don’t want from Guild Wars 1 or WoW.

In WoW’s defense, there’s now a steady and nice gear progression from quests, with skins that are both hard to find and pretty decent looking. This has been since the Cata revamp.

Can’t comment too much on GW1’s quest rewards, it’s been a lot longer since I’ve done those.

So it took WoW five years to get to that revamp? Good deal. Guild Wars 2 is out a year. It’s far better than WoW was the first year, so just imagine how cool it’ll be in five.

The Guild Wars 1 quest rewards were insanely silly. You hardly ever got an upgrade from them. In fact, you hardly ever got anything you could use….except the occassional skill. Of course, many of those were useless too, but that’s another issue.

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

Coming from GW1 (5 years) it is sometimes difficult to digest what GW2 is trying to accomplish. The first year of the game is clearly experimental, as they are trying things that have never been done in main stream MMOs and the pace of Living Story proves to me that they are trying to find the right stroke. One of the main gripes with the game that my friends who have transitioned from GW1 have is that there is rarely recognition of GW1 and when it exists, it seems forced, like it’s there because it has to be; like it’s there because the game is called Guild Wars 2.

Vayne.8563:

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I agree with you in the sense that they at least tried to do something different, but right now, the staticness of the game world is what kills the momentum of dynamic events. Sooner or later the events will reset and ultimately the world will always return to status quo. If you drive the bandits off for now, you can be sure they’ll be right back 10 minutes later.

The events should shape the world more radically for the system to work. Have bandits take over LA if an event chain fails, make it totally inaccessible to players. Big event chain required to take it back. And what’s more, don’t have these repeat ad nauseaum – if you miss them, tough! A living, breathing world doesn’t wait for all of would-be heroes.

The inherent static that comes with rinse-and-repeat dynamic events is something that has dulled the experience for me as well. However, Traveller, you’re suggestions do exist in game but on a smaller scale. There are various outposts throughout the game that get completely taken over by enemy NPCs that the player has to cleanse before it’s accessible, most notably in Orr.

For obvious reasons, LA can’t be regularly locked up for players. If it’s a large scale event you’ll run into problems like low-pop servers are having with Tequatl now.

I think large scale events in key cities are best left as Living Story plot devices. A more noticeable effect on the world is necessary for the world to feel truly dynamic, I do agree with you in that aspect. I think there’s a delicate balance that needs to be struck for the world to work as poetically as they envision it.

A living, breathing world doesn’t wait for all of would-be heroes.

This is an excellent phrase to describe the state of the dynamic events.

Vayne.8563:

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

I’d probably be more sympathetic to your statement if Prophecies has anything that even remotely resembled a city in the first place…but it doesn’t.

I think the old Lion’s Arch looked more like an encampment than a city, and I was very disappointed when I first got there, after hearing about it.

Whatever you say Vayne

Oh and you ENTERED that area, or you saw it floating above you while you stood at a tent in LA. How many structures could you enter in LA…please provide a count. I don’t remember any structure in LA you could enter. Hell, with the exception of a fountain, I don’t even remember any structure in LA you can walk around…well except for tents.

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

Yeah….some city.

Can you enter Isgarren’s keep, that giant floating castle in the Kessex Hills? What about the inner palace in Divinity’s Reach? Can you enter more than 3 of the normal houses within your home district? It’s disingenuous to imply that GW2 allows you to explore within any structure you please.

Also, Lion’s Arch was part of the original Guild Wars, which was released in 2005. Divinity’s Reach (and GW2) came out in 2012. In the world of video games, that is a lifetime of difference.

Dante.1508:

[…]
I’m not sure how Guildwars was like WoW in anyway at all…

Because of Trolling?
Oh pretty please, just ignore Exalibur ç__ç
Did you see why he jumped in the post “Collaborative Development”?
First for defend the game at the start of the thread, then everything went constructive and he suggested to close it.
All you do if you continue to reply to him is boost his ego.

Crawford.4135:

Gandarel.5091:

I dare to say more than 50% of the GW2 playerbase came from GW1. Or at least 40%. Sometimes i even see random dungeon teams with 5/5 GW1 titles. They make up most of the real core and loyal base.

Still, they don’t continue anything we loved in GW1, however we were promised to have “all we loved in GW1” – manifesto, anyone?

Yet it feels odd. If the community is asking for a GW1 feature, they do the opposite. Do Arenanet devs feel like GW1 isn’t their product, because most of the devs are new to the company?

For example, build teamplates. or GvG. PvP as a whole, is the opposite of GW1’s PvP – lack of variety, no rewards no resources.( Or Cantha! >_> )

Or the birthday gifts… EVERYONE was expecting a nice minipet pack. Instead, we got a Jennah, some booster (which was bugged and totally destroyed the non-existing Pvp economy) and an useless scroll. However… surely a coincidence but the gemstore happened to have a new minipet pack at the 1st anniversary. Feels like they were aiming for Gw1 people to buy their own gifts for money.

Don’t forget the landscape – can you tell me any kind of place that was presented in GW1 and is not in ruins? Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Any thoughts?

Using the word “loyal” should be avoided. No players are loyal to any game developer. There are Fanboy (fan based) players and they typically ruin games by their demanding attitudes and game developers cater right in to that, too.

GW1 graphics are old, it’s content is old and to some they simply don’t enjoy that. Others do. Just a choice. I played GW1 for a little while but as time moved on got sick of it. I will leave a game in a heartbeat for something else that gives me enjoyment and time well spent.

Most GW1 players bought GW2 because they had faith in Arenanet. Many people are around only for the “This is still GW. Things will get better.” feeling. This is what i call loyal fanbase.

To the ones saying “GW1 had no real cities” – lore-wise they had. But since we could not jump, they didn’t make complicated design structures if they knew players are going to use that place. Imagine going around every signel fence, using the stairs every single time in a tower when going down and so on.

christiniae.7834:

And yes, I did want GW1 with better graphics! I miss that game but I can’t go back.

You can’t physically log back into GW1? Or is this more of an emotional thing due to completing the stories and such?

Ok to be absolutely fair, here is a breakdown of GW1 vs GW2
Obviously the point scale system comes down to my opinion but I feel it’s quite just.
I will only be comparing GW1 prophecy features since we haven’t expanded into a 2nd land mass – aka Cantha, Elona, Eye of the north.

• GW1 Prophecy features /// GW2 features*

PVE

• Missions /// Dungeons + mini dungeons (GW2 +1)*
  While I loved the missions in GW1, GW2 dungeons are much more fun to me, they are more rewarding with the new reward system, although still not balanced they are very comparable to the missions in GW1 that did basically the same thing by telling the story of the game. Lore wise the missions in GW1 gave more information so perhaps that can be looked at when and if there is some re-vamp down. People complaining about Hard mode, well we have explorable mode which might not be as hard but it can be challenging. – Win goes to GW2

• Quests /// Dynamic Events + Hearts (GW2 +1)*
  Dynamic Event hands down just kills this comparison, each time you come to an area you might find the area completely changed and find a new rung of the chain instead of the stale quest which was not even repeatable. – Win goes to GW2

• Rotscale /// 19 World Bosses* (GW2 +1)
  Arguably Prophecies only had 1 true “world boss” Rotscale, he was a force to be reckoned with unless you took a cough 600hp smite monk with prot spirit. A balanced group would had a tough fight against him but still only 1 boss vs more than dozen world bosses GW2 brings. Note I am not counting the other open world bosses from GW1 since they were very similar to the current skill point capture system and they met similar difficulty.

-Explorable areas- (GW1 +1)
-56 GW1 /// 24 GW2-
We have a clear winner in this category – much large map was open in the first year allowing players to venture into different explorable areas.

-Zaishen /// Dailies- (Tie)
While the rewards were better from the Zaishen dailies, I feel like I enjoy the casual form of daily in GW2, and given us the option to choose is nice. On the other hand, Zaishen quests rewarded some very nice loot indeed. While I am leaning a little towards GW2 in this category, I will call it a tie due to the rewards provided in GW1 and I did not like the recent karma nerf =/

Ok so up until now the score is 1 – 3 (GW1 – GW2)
So you might ask why were there so many people still loving the pve in GW1? The next category was the answer.

-Elite Areas- (GW1 +1)

• Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Sorrows Furnace /// Nothing in GW2 -*
  UW and Fow could be accessed from Temple of Ages which were two amazing areas, Each mob had a chance to drop very good loot that encouraged the group to do full clear, not to mention the coolest feature was how players came up with play styles that allowed a group to split up and go different paths to complete various quests either solo or 2-man groups. Each player was essentially competing to complete their assigned quest in a certain time period before consumables ran out. Other more casual groups could do the same content by sticking together but would cost them time but still was quite challenging. Majority of the Pve player base saw this end game content and were absolutely content with it. This is the last straw that is absolutely needed and should not be ignored.

I dint even touch the surface with the above post but those are the top lines, I will post my take on pvp, auction house and other quality of life features in an upcoming post.
While GW2 is clearly ahead in almost all categories Elite Areas will truly add that last missing bit to the game along with opening up the entire prophecies map.

Imagi.4561:

Vayne.8563:

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

I’d probably be more sympathetic to your statement if Prophecies has anything that even remotely resembled a city in the first place…but it doesn’t.

I think the old Lion’s Arch looked more like an encampment than a city, and I was very disappointed when I first got there, after hearing about it.

Whatever you say Vayne

Oh and you ENTERED that area, or you saw it floating above you while you stood at a tent in LA. How many structures could you enter in LA…please provide a count. I don’t remember any structure in LA you could enter. Hell, with the exception of a fountain, I don’t even remember any structure in LA you can walk around…well except for tents.

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

Yeah….some city.

Can you enter Isgarren’s keep, that giant floating castle in the Kessex Hills? What about the inner palace in Divinity’s Reach? Can you enter more than 3 of the normal houses within your home district? It’s disingenuous to imply that GW2 allows you to explore within any structure you please.

Also, Lion’s Arch was part of the original Guild Wars, which was released in 2005. Divinity’s Reach (and GW2) came out in 2012. In the world of video games, that is a lifetime of difference.

You’d make a great point of other games released before or around the same time as Guild Wars 1 didn’t have cities (like Stormwind for example). Bad city is a bad city. It’s not like they couldn’t program cities, they chose not to.

And no, I’m not saying every house can be entered. I’m saying there are houses PERIOD.

Vayne.8563:

So it took WoW five years to get to that revamp? Good deal. Guild Wars 2 is out a year. It’s far better than WoW was the first year, so just imagine how cool it’ll be in five.

Yes, because obviously it starts from point zero, without any other preexisting games whose experiences they could draw upon
…oh wait.

Pariah.8506:

Nobody forgot the GW1 fans.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Because nobody cared about them to begin with

What a tool. There was no reason for this comment.

jheryn.8390:

Pariah.8506:

Nobody forgot the GW1 fans.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Because nobody cared about them to begin with

What a tool. There was no reason for this comment.

Ignore him. There is always that one guy… 99.9% of the time is pure envy

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

So it took WoW five years to get to that revamp? Good deal. Guild Wars 2 is out a year. It’s far better than WoW was the first year, so just imagine how cool it’ll be in five.

Yes, because obviously it starts from point zero, without any other preexisting games whose experiences they could draw upon
…oh wait.

Of course it starts from point zero. They’re changing things about the genre…it HAS TO start from point zero. They can’t build on the trinity…because the game doesn’t use the trinity. They can’t refine existing raids, because there are no raids. They can’t make all those new mounts, because there are no mounts (unless you want to be pedantic and count the broomstick).

The point is, Anet did go back to the drawing board and changed lots of things. No game has the number and complexity of dynamic events. So yes, they started over. They made a lot of design decisions that pretty much left them out there all by themselves. They’re not building on a WoW base…which is pretty much the only way to move the genre forward at all.

Vayne.8563:

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I don’t have any issue with the heart quests nor their rewards (sans the fact that there isn’t much choice and the rewards aren’t free). I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as revolutionary as many claim them to be. Compared to most other MMOs, probably, but that’s because the ‘bar’ set by those other MMOs is horribly low, and I’m not going to cut them slack as that bar has been surpassed above and beyond in many other games.

Fulfilling quests objectives on your way to the questgiver is nice, but not new. Multiple paths to completion is far from new. Being able to complete a quest without ever knowing the person who gave it can be cool, but it’s not something I’d strictly classify as a ‘pro’, since it also doesn’t make sense (moreso when I receive a ‘thank you’ note…I never even met the guy!). In fact I was bummed when this would happen as I’d miss out on what they had to say to me prior to completion. I suppose I can appreciate having the option to not give a crap about what I’m doing and be rewarded for it…

Otherwise, I don’t see what the big deal is.

We just need to get enough people together for a new game: Guild Wars 0
The setting will be during the Guild Wars, and it will play as an upgraded version of the GW1 we all know and love. Or Gw1.5 to help bridge the gap between 1 and 2.

So it’d basically just be GW1 with better graphics and a trading post (and maybe some other things gw2 did right).
/desperatelyholdingontoGW1

GW1 is a game which was created from gamers for gamers and they made money with it.
GW2 is a game from a gaming company for the “WoWed” crowd to make money.

They don’t care from who they get the money…and that answers OP title question.

Atlas.9704:

christiniae.7834:

And yes, I did want GW1 with better graphics! I miss that game but I can’t go back.

You can’t physically log back into GW1? Or is this more of an emotional thing due to completing the stories and such?

Exactly, if I could wipe my memory and play it again for the first time it would be magical

When it comes down to it, the core gameplay of GW1 (combat mechanics + MtG-like skill drafting) is worlds apart from it’s sequel. If the game was stripped of the similar graphics and lore, players would have no idea these two games were made by the same people, from the same franchise.

Vayne.8563:

Oh and you ENTERED that area, or you saw it floating above you while you stood at a tent in LA.

Yeah….some city.

You mean a kingdom would keep refugees from entering the actual city, allowing them only access to a small area in front of the main gate? Gee, sounds almost like something from real life!

Not to mention the kingdoms of Tyria were all fighting each other before the Charr invasion shook everything up, those Ascalonian refugees and armed forces were basically the very recent enemy of Kryta.

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

So you’re holding GW1 culprit of running a 7 years older engine? Really?

Mesket.5728:

jheryn.8390:

Pariah.8506:

Nobody forgot the GW1 fans.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Because nobody cared about them to begin with

What a tool. There was no reason for this comment.

Ignore him. There is always that one guy… 99.9% of the time is pure envy

Can I at least know what I’m supposed to be envious of?
Thank you ^^

NornBearPig.9814:

When it comes down to it, the core gameplay of GW1 (combat mechanics + MtG-like skill drafting) is worlds apart from it’s sequel. If the game was stripped of the similar graphics and lore, players would have no idea these two games were made by the same people, from the same franchise.

I think you could say that for the majority of sequels, though.

I’m not sure just how valid of a criticism that is.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I don’t have any issue with the heart quests nor their rewards (sans the fact that there isn’t much choice and the rewards aren’t free). I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as revolutionary as many claim them to be. Compared to most other MMOs, probably, but that’s because the ‘bar’ set by those other MMOs is horribly low, and I’m not going to cut them slack as that bar has been surpassed above and beyond in many other games.

Fulfilling quests objectives on your way to the questgiver is nice, but not new. Multiple paths to completion is far from new. Being able to complete a quest without ever knowing the person who gave it can be cool, but it’s not something I’d strictly classify as a ‘pro’, since it also doesn’t make sense (moreso when I receive a ‘thank you’ note…I never even met the guy!). In fact I was bummed when this would happen as I’d miss out on what they had to say to me prior to completion. I suppose I can appreciate having the option to not give a crap about what I’m doing and be rewarded for it…

Otherwise, I don’t see what the big deal is.

I never claimed they were revolutionary. But I did say that you can’t compare hearts to dynamic events, because hearts weren’t made to replace normal questing. Hearts are in the game for one reason and one reason only…to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They’re a tool. That’s their purpose.

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

Oh and you ENTERED that area, or you saw it floating above you while you stood at a tent in LA.

Yeah….some city.

You mean a kingdom would keep refugees from entering the actual city, allowing them only access to a small area in front of the main gate? Gee, sounds almost like something from real life!

Not to mention the kingdoms of Tyria were all fighting each other before the Charr invasion shook everything up, those Ascalonian refugees and armed forces were basically the very recent enemy of Kryta.

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

So you’re holding GW1 culprit of running a 7 years older engine? Really?

It has nothing to do with the engine. Nothing at all.

It has to do with a city being a city. We know a city can be created in Guild Wars 1, because they did it with Kaineng Center. It was a design decision, not an engine problem.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I don’t have any issue with the heart quests nor their rewards (sans the fact that there isn’t much choice and the rewards aren’t free). I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as revolutionary as many claim them to be. Compared to most other MMOs, probably, but that’s because the ‘bar’ set by those other MMOs is horribly low, and I’m not going to cut them slack as that bar has been surpassed above and beyond in many other games.

Fulfilling quests objectives on your way to the questgiver is nice, but not new. Multiple paths to completion is far from new. Being able to complete a quest without ever knowing the person who gave it can be cool, but it’s not something I’d strictly classify as a ‘pro’, since it also doesn’t make sense (moreso when I receive a ‘thank you’ note…I never even met the guy!). In fact I was bummed when this would happen as I’d miss out on what they had to say to me prior to completion. I suppose I can appreciate having the option to not give a crap about what I’m doing and be rewarded for it…

Otherwise, I don’t see what the big deal is.

I never claimed they were revolutionary. But I did say that you can’t compare hearts to dynamic events, because hearts weren’t made to replace normal questing. Hearts are in the game for one reason and one reason only…to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They’re a tool. That’s their purpose.

Then I’m not entirely sure why they wouldn’t just make more dynamic events instead, and I think they have the tools to address player scaling. I actually wouldn’t have minded that at all, provided there were enough and I was able to see them on the map.

And I thought we saw what a ‘city’ could be in GW1 with Drok’s? I’m not sure, this whole mini discussion is lost on me because I didn’t have much of an expectation for Lion’s Arch. But I did think it was pretty.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I don’t have any issue with the heart quests nor their rewards (sans the fact that there isn’t much choice and the rewards aren’t free). I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as revolutionary as many claim them to be. Compared to most other MMOs, probably, but that’s because the ‘bar’ set by those other MMOs is horribly low, and I’m not going to cut them slack as that bar has been surpassed above and beyond in many other games.

Fulfilling quests objectives on your way to the questgiver is nice, but not new. Multiple paths to completion is far from new. Being able to complete a quest without ever knowing the person who gave it can be cool, but it’s not something I’d strictly classify as a ‘pro’, since it also doesn’t make sense (moreso when I receive a ‘thank you’ note…I never even met the guy!). In fact I was bummed when this would happen as I’d miss out on what they had to say to me prior to completion. I suppose I can appreciate having the option to not give a crap about what I’m doing and be rewarded for it…

Otherwise, I don’t see what the big deal is.

I never claimed they were revolutionary. But I did say that you can’t compare hearts to dynamic events, because hearts weren’t made to replace normal questing. Hearts are in the game for one reason and one reason only…to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They’re a tool. That’s their purpose.

Then I’m not entirely sure why they wouldn’t just make more dynamic events instead, and I think they have the tools to address player scaling. I actually wouldn’t have minded that at all, provided there were enough and I was able to see them on the map.

And I thought we saw what a ‘city’ could be in GW1 with Drok’s? I’m not sure, this whole mini discussion is lost on me because I didn’t have much of an expectation for Lion’s Arch. But I did think it was pretty.

Because of player testing. With nothing to keep people in the areas, they just ran around willy nilly past a whole bunch of dynamic events.

One story a dev told, he said he was watching a play tester play the game and they ran right by a burning house. The dev asked why they didn’t stop to help and the person said, well I didn’t have a quest that told me to do that.

Unfortunately, some people lack initiative and need more help figuring stuff out.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I don’t have any issue with the heart quests nor their rewards (sans the fact that there isn’t much choice and the rewards aren’t free). I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as revolutionary as many claim them to be. Compared to most other MMOs, probably, but that’s because the ‘bar’ set by those other MMOs is horribly low, and I’m not going to cut them slack as that bar has been surpassed above and beyond in many other games.

Fulfilling quests objectives on your way to the questgiver is nice, but not new. Multiple paths to completion is far from new. Being able to complete a quest without ever knowing the person who gave it can be cool, but it’s not something I’d strictly classify as a ‘pro’, since it also doesn’t make sense (moreso when I receive a ‘thank you’ note…I never even met the guy!). In fact I was bummed when this would happen as I’d miss out on what they had to say to me prior to completion. I suppose I can appreciate having the option to not give a crap about what I’m doing and be rewarded for it…

Otherwise, I don’t see what the big deal is.

I never claimed they were revolutionary. But I did say that you can’t compare hearts to dynamic events, because hearts weren’t made to replace normal questing. Hearts are in the game for one reason and one reason only…to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They’re a tool. That’s their purpose.

Then I’m not entirely sure why they wouldn’t just make more dynamic events instead, and I think they have the tools to address player scaling. I actually wouldn’t have minded that at all, provided there were enough and I was able to see them on the map.

And I thought we saw what a ‘city’ could be in GW1 with Drok’s? I’m not sure, this whole mini discussion is lost on me because I didn’t have much of an expectation for Lion’s Arch. But I did think it was pretty.

Because of player testing. With nothing to keep people in the areas, they just ran around willy nilly past a whole bunch of dynamic events.

One story a dev told, he said he was watching a play tester play the game and they ran right by a burning house. The dev asked why they didn’t stop to help and the person said, well I didn’t have a quest that told me to do that.

Unfortunately, some people lack initiative and need more help figuring stuff out.

Huh? That makes next to no sense to me. How does a dynamic event “tell you to do something” any less than a heart quest? In all due respect that sounds like one of the most absent-minded players ever.

Vayne.8563:

The Guild Wars 1 quest rewards were insanely silly. You hardly ever got an upgrade from them. In fact, you hardly ever got anything you could use….except the occassional skill. Of course, many of those were useless too, but that’s another issue.

Quite the contrary, GW1 quests offered something very important to the game, something that allowed people freedom to buy almost anything they wanted – gold (platinum). There were no artificial restrictions with dozens of currencies which were not interchangeable and were limiting you in the way what you had to do to get a specific piece of gear. You wanted Elite Templar (Marhan’s Grotto) armor? No need to waste your time on farming tokens if you didn’t want to. Just do quests, trade or do whatever you want to in order to get gold / Deldrimor steel / Elonian leather. It was imho a simple yet very effective system.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

The quest rewards in Guild Wars 1 were a joke. Allowing people to choose their rewards via karma vendors is smart…and different from just questing in other games.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge difference or it’s a small difference…what matters is it’s different. It’s often nuances and subtle touches that make something better.

No one is going to design an MMO without quests, because quests are what you do. An MMO without quests, would be an MMO of basically grinding mobs. If you see a house on fire, being attacked by bandits, that’s a quest to stop the bandits.

However, without saying kill ten bandits…and actually driving the bandits off, what you end up with is something that’s more organic that what you find in a regular MMO. It’s an improvement. For some, it’s a huge improvement. I’m one of those.

I don’t think I could ever again play a game with standard questing. At the very least, the standard questing would have to be exceptional.

I don’t have any issue with the heart quests nor their rewards (sans the fact that there isn’t much choice and the rewards aren’t free). I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as revolutionary as many claim them to be. Compared to most other MMOs, probably, but that’s because the ‘bar’ set by those other MMOs is horribly low, and I’m not going to cut them slack as that bar has been surpassed above and beyond in many other games.

Fulfilling quests objectives on your way to the questgiver is nice, but not new. Multiple paths to completion is far from new. Being able to complete a quest without ever knowing the person who gave it can be cool, but it’s not something I’d strictly classify as a ‘pro’, since it also doesn’t make sense (moreso when I receive a ‘thank you’ note…I never even met the guy!). In fact I was bummed when this would happen as I’d miss out on what they had to say to me prior to completion. I suppose I can appreciate having the option to not give a crap about what I’m doing and be rewarded for it…

Otherwise, I don’t see what the big deal is.

I never claimed they were revolutionary. But I did say that you can’t compare hearts to dynamic events, because hearts weren’t made to replace normal questing. Hearts are in the game for one reason and one reason only…to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They’re a tool. That’s their purpose.

Then I’m not entirely sure why they wouldn’t just make more dynamic events instead, and I think they have the tools to address player scaling. I actually wouldn’t have minded that at all, provided there were enough and I was able to see them on the map.

And I thought we saw what a ‘city’ could be in GW1 with Drok’s? I’m not sure, this whole mini discussion is lost on me because I didn’t have much of an expectation for Lion’s Arch. But I did think it was pretty.

Because of player testing. With nothing to keep people in the areas, they just ran around willy nilly past a whole bunch of dynamic events.

One story a dev told, he said he was watching a play tester play the game and they ran right by a burning house. The dev asked why they didn’t stop to help and the person said, well I didn’t have a quest that told me to do that.

Unfortunately, some people lack initiative and need more help figuring stuff out.

Huh? That makes next to no sense to me. How does a dynamic event “tell you to do something” any less than a heart quest? In all due respect that sounds like one of the most absent-minded players ever.

A heart quest is permanently marked on the map…a dynamic event has to spawn. The hearts are placed in areas where dynamic events spawn. You see the heart, you see it getting filled in, you stop to complete it and while you do, sometimes an event spawns.

I think they overdid it. I think they could have done hearts in the starter zones, and left the rest….but I guess Anet thought otherwise.

holodoc.5748:

Vayne.8563:

The Guild Wars 1 quest rewards were insanely silly. You hardly ever got an upgrade from them. In fact, you hardly ever got anything you could use….except the occassional skill. Of course, many of those were useless too, but that’s another issue.

Quite the contrary, GW1 quests offered something very important to the game, something that allowed people freedom to buy almost anything they wanted – gold (platinum). There were no artificial restrictions with dozens of currencies which were not interchangeable and were limiting you in the way what you had to do to get a specific piece of gear. You wanted Elite Templar (Marhan’s Grotto) armor? No need to waste your time on farming tokens if you didn’t want to. Just do quests, trade or do whatever you want to in order to get gold / Deldrimor steel / Elonian leather. It was imho a simple yet very effective system.

The amount of money you got off questing in Guild Wars 1 was completely neglible. Given that, both hearts and dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 offer money as well.

And though you may say they offer less money there are far more of them and they’re repeatable. Take Prophecies. Less than 300 quests all up.

There are 300 hearts and 1500 repeatable dynamic events that offer you money.

I’m not sure how you can compare.

I’m talking about the actual items they gave you, most of which were completely useless…you just merched them.

chemiclord.3978:

NornBearPig.9814:

If the game was stripped of the similar graphics and lore, players would have no idea these two games were made by the same people, from the same franchise.

I think you could say that for the majority of sequels, though.

Actually I can’t.

ZilentNight.5089:

/snip

So you might ask why were there so many people still loving the pve in GW1? The next category was the answer.

-Elite Areas- (GW1 +1)

• Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Sorrows Furnace /// Nothing in GW2 -*
  UW and Fow could be accessed from Temple of Ages which were two amazing areas, Each mob had a chance to drop very good loot that encouraged the group to do full clear, not to mention the coolest feature was how players came up with play styles that allowed a group to split up and go different paths to complete various quests either solo or 2-man groups. Each player was essentially competing to complete their assigned quest in a certain time period before consumables ran out. Other more casual groups could do the same content by sticking together but would cost them time but still was quite challenging. Majority of the Pve player base saw this end game content and were absolutely content with it. This is the last straw that is absolutely needed and should not be ignored.

/endsnip

I agree with most of your post up to this point.

While I loved those areas (along with Urgoth’s Warren) in GW1, I really don’t think that adding them here in that way would add much to the game. Yes, I would love to revisit them, but the implementation would be no more than adding yet another dungeon. We have dungeons. They are more “elite” than regular content. They take some coordination to run until you learn them by rote, just like in GW1. They also give better rewards than “regular” content, whether one would like to admit it or not (ok, so some is in currency, but look at the armor… Nice stuff, and cheaper than the TP!)

oh, and a minor point about zones. Yes, GW1 had more in number, but in a lot of them, most notably Factions, you were restricted to a path, and couldn’t even climb a hill to see what’s on the other side. Some of the zones in GW2 are just epic in their “feel.” GW1 may have more, but GW2 has far better.

Of course, just like your post, this is only my opinion.

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

So you’re holding GW1 culprit of running a 7 years older engine? Really?[/quote]

It has nothing to do with the engine. Nothing at all.

It has to do with a city being a city. We know a city can be created in Guild Wars 1, because they did it with Kaineng Center. It was a design decision, not an engine problem.[/quote]

Vayne, come on, you couldn’t go into doors and rooms in KC or Kamadan either. You’re talking about the exporable zones of KC, which isn’t the same thing. Those act like any other instanced zone in the game, not the “city” spaces.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

So you’re holding GW1 culprit of running a 7 years older engine? Really?

It has nothing to do with the engine. Nothing at all.

It has to do with a city being a city. We know a city can be created in Guild Wars 1, because they did it with Kaineng Center. It was a design decision, not an engine problem.[/quote]

Vayne, come on, you couldn’t go into doors and rooms in KC or Kamadan either. You’re talking about the exporable zones of KC, which isn’t the same thing. Those act like any other instanced zone in the game, not the “city” spaces.[/quote]

No, but there were houses. It was a city. It’s not just about going indoors, though that’s what you seem to have taken from my post. I’ll make it clearer for you.

Cities have houses and buildings and businesses. Not just a few tents and a few NPCs standing around them. I could direct you to many games, even games from back then that had actual cities in them. I’ve mentioned one already.

This has nothing to do with the age of the game, and everything with Anet thinking a city wasn’t important.

Before Guild Wars 2 came out, fan sites and games sites had video tours of the cities up on their websites. Even Mike from Gamebreaker, who never liked that stuff, did a walking video tour of the city, commenting about how awesome it was.

If you really think Lion’s Arch, or any city in Prophecies could have a video tour of it, there’s not much else to say.

KC was a city, not because you could enter stuff..but because it felt like a city. There were at least two full zones, a couple of outposts, the undercity…that’s a city to me. The only one in Guild Wars 1. Everything else was a glorified quest hub.

I’ve had the problem in a couple of other games too, but don’t blame the engine, or the age of the game. It was doable in Guild Wars 1, with the engine they had.

can i say that of every things i miss about gw1 cantha is not one of them? i hated it, it was claustrophobic (well not shing jea) and confusing. i absolutely loved elona, the flying carpets, the one thousand and 1 nights atmosphere… that was something really new to me… but please… cantha? the only thing i loved about cantha were some of the luxon and kurziks areas and the jade sea.

Gandarel.5091:

I dare to say more than 50% of the GW2 playerbase came from GW1. Or at least 40%.

Honestly this mentality is one of the serious issues this game has. Sooooooo many posters have no concept of actual facts when compared to their presumption of things.

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

GW2 is a good game. It is not GW1 or a remake of it. It is a new game based on the same lore. It is a solid game, and one of the fastest selling MMOs for a very good reason. If you dislike the game as some of you in this thread appear to, then don’t play it. Its okay. Everyone cannot like everything. But some of the demands here are just ludicrous. Its like people would rather demand odd or insignificant changes to suit them personally, just to let the game fail because those wants are illogical to expect the general public to desire as well.

Amadan.9451:

can i say that of every things i miss about gw1 cantha is not one of them? i hated it, it was claustrophobic (well not shing jea) and confusing. i absolutely loved elona, the flying carpets, the one thousand and 1 nights atmosphere… that was something really new to me… but please… cantha? the only thing i loved about cantha were some of the luxon and kurziks areas and the jade sea.

Whether you liked or didn’t like Cantha really isn’t the point. The point to me is that it felt like a city where as Lion’s Arch and Ascalon…or anything else in Prophecies for that matter didn’t. They didn’t feel like cities. Not even really towns.

Everything feels like an outpost. Maybe a big outpost…but not a city.

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Astralporing.1957:

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 4 games….not 7 million copies one one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 8 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 8.

That means that probably there are a whole lot less individual Guild Wars 1 consumers than Guild Wars 2 consumers to date.

i don’t know, vabbi looked like a pretty city to me, but i never cared about cities and outposts, and of course i think cities in gw2 are much more vibrant and they have the right to be called city, where in gw1 even kamadan was just a bigger outpost…

i would lie if i say i didn’t enjoy gw2 largely and for almost a year, although overall i played gw1 more, the fact is not that gw1 was a better game, in fact i played gw1 again after gw2 and it looked awkward, you couldn’t jump and dodge and you couldn’t move while casting. and this aspect of the game play is really refreshing in gw2. although gw1 had a lot of feature that made the brand amazing that in my opinion would made gw2 even better.
so if you want to know here is what i liked about gw1 that for me would make gw2 a playable game again:

1 replayability: iliked to play some story mode more than one time when i felt too or to try to beat my record, or just because i liked them. and overall the story mission where more complex for a single player experience that most of the storyline quests in gw2. it’s personal taste i know, i started with a sylvari and i was disappointed after such a good start with every other race and the rest of the story especially after joining an order but the claw island part.
2 customization: here i mean both build wise and cosmetic wise. i’m a gamer that need to be stimulated by changes, even if self made. i don’t need the thousands skills from gw1, that was quite too much and most of the time just plain useless. but i would like the ability to change build as easily as it was in gw1, not because is needed but because it was interesting to just change game style. in gw2 if i want to change build i can and it’s not the price in resetting traits that stops me, but the need for gear to make it effective. so i feel a little restrained to the easiest build for me to play with. gw1 was great in that side, i loved the fact that i could change on the fly so easily without worrying about my armor or most of the times my weapon sets.
cosmetic wise, my only rant is that a lot of armor here in gw2 looks the same. it’s the same model with different textures. and although some armor are really nice crafted, they are only if you look at them from the front, and we look at our character from behind most of the time and they all look alike with different textures. in the end we all look the same and our gear has no story, even legendary has no story. there were mini adventures in gw1 that give you mini campaign and cosmetic reward that you could only get there, not rng lockboxes (that is just sad)
also collecting them in pve it is impossible because since they have stats we cannot have a locker like pvp and of course because they like to make us pay for transmutation stones (otherwise they would be useless).
ascended tier worsen the situation because it is a time gated tier and having multiple armors of this tier for the sake of the liberty of changing build is crazy! or it requires more time for a feature that if you look better at it in this game is useless.

if gear wise pve was more like pvp that would be for me a reason to come back despite ascended. i would welcome ascended and even more tiers if they were implemented statless and only with room for runes/sigils/infusions.

the only solution i see to this is celestial stats, but for the wrong reasons.

3 achievement and title system: and yes while there are a lot of grindy achievement in both titles, they were there to do at your own pace when you were willing to grind for it.
the temporary ones even if you don’t need them and you are not forced by anyone to complete them, if you do so they still look like a wasted opportunity (even if a useless one) but they are gone for ever after and that can be stressing, add to this the only 2 weeks before more new achievement are added and i just stop playing.

4 difficulty: it’s not acceptable for me to force it in open world where i have no choice other than play with people that are not like minded. examples: scarlet invasion. i and a lot of players like me wanted really to complete the event every time i tried because this is how i play. but a lot of other players just used the opportunity to farm. forcing other to fail. same with tequatl (not for farming) which i never tried, but i see my server managed to kill only once since release. if you create content that only high populated server can complete you are leaving low populated server even more behind (it is already sad in wvwvw, at least in pve we all should have same potential despite the numbers).
so yes i should chose when i want to play difficoult content and the people i want to play it with.

4 pvp: i think pvp is what made the gw1 brand famous… they should have stick to that formula with the awesomeness of the gw2 combat system and mechanics

that said gw2 is still a great improvement since gw1. but according to me that improvement could have been handled a lot better. they knew what feature made great gw1, there was no real reason to be different from any other mmo in the world even their own prequel

When you’re talking about the core experience the OP’s sentiment is absolutely correct. GW2 is a time-gated gear stat grind with a Korean f2p inspired cash shop. That’s about as far from GW1 (and the manifesto) as it is possible to get within the same genre. That is not “making some adjustments.” It’s a complete and total 180.

I doubt we’ll ever really know what influenced the shift but in the end I feel much less like a valued customer and player here and more like one of those mythical vat-floating intubated cash cows an increasing number of games seem to be designed for.

I still have plenty of respect for the artists, even though I’m disappointed with the Saturday morning turn in the writing. The bug squashers are certainly doing their work behind the scenes. I’d even give balancing a (molasses) nod. Outside of that… there’s not much I can see of the old player centered Anet.

Vayne.8563:

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 3 games….not 7 million copies of one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 6 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 6.

Fixed that for you.

Eye of the North could not be played without owning at least one of the 3 campaigns.

christiniae.7834:

Exactly, if I could wipe my memory and play it again for the first time it would be magical

Could you just not create a new character and start from scratch? Relive the magical feeling again?

Because I get this feeling that some who wanted “GW1 with better graphics” would have still not been pleased with GW2 had it simply been “GW1 with better graphics”.
You had the initial hit, that pleasing feeling, with GW1 and even if GW2 followed that same route all over again, I don’t think it would have been enough.

It’s like Jaws and Jaws 2. The studios wanted Jaws 2 to be Jaws 1 again. The people (well I know the creators) didn’t. We have a reversed situation here.

We have players, granted not all of them praise the Six, who wanted just GW1 again.
ANet created GW2, once again based on what I see, with the mindset that GW1’s time is done. Those stories are now over with. A new generation is upon us.

Please note I’m focusing on things like the Lore and not so much on quality of life stuff or game modes.

As a GW1 vet, I don’t think it’s as bad as the OP and some others have made it out to be.

On the other hand, I don’t get quite why ANet dropped a lot of quality of life stuff from GW1 (they’ve included some, but not most). Movable UI, Guild Halls, etc.

Maybe we don’t spend enough in the cash shop? I’ve spent around 800$, I don’t know how much more I’d have to to have folks take seriously that being able to move the minimap to the left (so it would be under chat) would allow me to run and navigate at the same time, since I’m blind on the right. In GW1, you could move the minimap anywhere on the screen.

Not very much has discouraged me in this game, though the lack of that feature does; the accessibility of the UI to the visually disabled in GW1 was much more solid.

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 4 games….not 7 million copies one one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 8 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 8.

That means that probably there are a whole lot less individual Guild Wars 1 consumers than Guild Wars 2 consumers to date.

Even if we assume that we have to divide the total number of copies sold by 4, we still get 1.75 mil full accounts. That’s much higher than 7 times less than GW2 has now. And the actual numbers are higher than 1.75, because not every account was a full one, and bundle sales (all 4 campaigns + EotN in one pack) were treated as one sale, not four. So in the end, while the number of consumer accounts for GW1 might have been smaller, it was still high enough to make the 40% figure a very distinct possibility.
(no, the fact that there were people like you that bought more than one account is completely irrelevant, because there are people like it in this game as well).

Erick Alastor.3917:

I’ll try to post it again and if this lead (again) to the thread cancellation: my apologies.

From Eurogamer Expo 2013
Q: How close are you to the manifesto you posted before the game’s release?
A: Still hold core values but had to make some adjustments during development. Sometimes we have to stray away from what we have said in the past.

Let’s see what was declared with the manifesto:

Points they are still close to:

• The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic.
• Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.

Points from which they have decided to stray away:
- Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world.

• B2P sustaining itself mainly through the release of new campaigns. No.
• GvG? No.
• Guild halls. No.
• Guild capes. No.
• UW? FoW? Alliance battle? No.
• Focus on Horizontal progression? No.
• Secondary profession? No.
• Region free servers? No.
• Alliance system? No.
• Skills capturing? No.
• Heroes? No.
• Low and persisting level cap? No.
• Hard Mode? No.
• Costumes? No.
• Dances differentiated by profession and gender. No.
• Lore. Are you serious?
• Etc etc. No. xD

- A game that defies existing conventions: (old school Mmorpg vs. Guild Wars 2)

• Vertical Progression. -> Vertical Progression (but slower)
• Farming. -> Farming.
• Quest system. -> Renamed: Hearts, Dailies, Living Story.
• Raid. -> (World Bosses?) ~ Work in progress ~
• Trinity. DPS/Tank/Healer -> Redefined: Warrior-Guardian-Mesmer

- We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

• Open PvE: Join the zerg spam 1, dodge if required (if not, you will roam alone in an almost dead world)
• Interact with “put some random object name” in the world for hundreds of times.
• Kill “put some random mob name” in the world for hundreds of times.

- As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing.

• Run in circle (Frostgorge/Queensdale/…) to kill Champions doing the same things others are doing and in the same order at the same time.
• You make all the hard work during the personal story, a salad take the credits.

- We respect you—as a player, as a human being.

• So they decided to totally ignore our feedback on forum and close every thread that disagree with their decisions, without giving us any response.

Best post I’ve read in months quoting their manifesto catching them redhanded