Guild Wars 2

Gandarel.5091:

Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Good riddance.

Pre-Searing Ascalon was beautiful, and it is definitely missed. But a series of tents and campfires does not make a proper city. I sure don’t miss the huge tar pits, the barren soil, the crystal fragments, the desolation. At least now there is grass, water, and vibrant animal life. If we can get rid of the fool king and his spell, perhaps then the citizens can finally rest and Ascalon can continue to heal.

synk.6907:

Gandarel.5091:

Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Good riddance.

Pre-Searing Ascalon was beautiful, and it is definitely missed. But a series of tents and campfires does not make a proper city. I sure don’t miss the huge tar pits, the barren soil, the crystal fragments, the desolation. At least now there is grass, water, and vibrant animal life. If we can get rid of the fool king and his spell, perhaps then the citizens can finally rest and Ascalon can continue to heal.

I just hope you know that you can thank the “tents, tar pits, desolation” and other things to the charr and the Searing, not Adelbern and the Foefire. Without them, Ascalon would be a beautiful place.

Adelbern was a coward and should have listened to his son Rurik. (RIP)

Gandarel.5091:

synk.6907:

Gandarel.5091:

Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Good riddance.

Pre-Searing Ascalon was beautiful, and it is definitely missed. But a series of tents and campfires does not make a proper city. I sure don’t miss the huge tar pits, the barren soil, the crystal fragments, the desolation. At least now there is grass, water, and vibrant animal life. If we can get rid of the fool king and his spell, perhaps then the citizens can finally rest and Ascalon can continue to heal.

I just hope you know that you can thank the “tents, tar pits, desolation” and other things to the charr and the Searing, not Adelbern and the Foefire. Without them, Ascalon would be a beautiful place.

I know, I mentioned the Searing.
But that is an immutable fact of history within GW1 itself that cannot be changed. So in a thread that complains that GW2 is ignoring GW1 fans, I’d say it’s great to see Ascalon healing and a potential rest for those poor citizens instead of making us still deal with the desolation and ruins of a human Ascalon ~200 years later.

synk.6907:

Gandarel.5091:

synk.6907:

Gandarel.5091:

Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Good riddance.

Pre-Searing Ascalon was beautiful, and it is definitely missed. But a series of tents and campfires does not make a proper city. I sure don’t miss the huge tar pits, the barren soil, the crystal fragments, the desolation. At least now there is grass, water, and vibrant animal life. If we can get rid of the fool king and his spell, perhaps then the citizens can finally rest and Ascalon can continue to heal.

I just hope you know that you can thank the “tents, tar pits, desolation” and other things to the charr and the Searing, not Adelbern and the Foefire. Without them, Ascalon would be a beautiful place.

I know, I mentioned the Searing.
But that is an immutable fact of history within GW1 itself that cannot be changed. So in a thread that complains that GW2 is ignoring GW1 fans, I’d say it’s great to see Ascalon healing and a potential rest for those poor citizens instead of making us still deal with the desolation and ruins of a human Ascalon ~200 years later.

It is kinda sad when you think about it. There are still ghosts roaming after 200 years of unrest… wat.

The ghosts have only been around for about 1 year, according to Ghosts of Ascalon, so I suppose in fairness the land itself healed regardless of which race was living there. I still don’t miss GW1 Ascalon, though. Leaving it to travel through the Shiverpeaks was almost as nice as leaving the bowels of Kaineng City and seeing the beautiful, vibrant world of Cantha again.

Yeah I agree, remember that first time leaving Kaineng City and seeing the beautiful vibrant world then abruptly getting mauled by a bunch of stupid am fah hehe.

I JUST WANTED TO MEET MASTER TOGO

Mathias.9657:

Adelbern was a coward and should have listened to his son Rurik. (RIP)

Coward for not giving up his homeland and fighting face-to-face with the invaders even being 60+ years old ?

Gandarel.5091:

Mathias.9657:

Adelbern was a coward and should have listened to his son Rurik. (RIP)

Coward for not giving up his homeland and fighting face-to-face with the invaders even being 60+ years old ?

<Commits suicide with foefire instead of escaping with his son, rallying troops and strategizing a counter attack.

Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word coward, maybe stupid.

He used the foefire because he hated the charr so much he didn’t even care for his fellow soldiers in the field; he killed everyone there. Screw him. Lol lore making me mad

Mathias.9657:

Gandarel.5091:

Mathias.9657:

Adelbern was a coward and should have listened to his son Rurik. (RIP)

Coward for not giving up his homeland and fighting face-to-face with the invaders even being 60+ years old ?

<Commits suicide with foefire instead of escaping with his son, rallying troops and strategizing a counter attack.

Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word coward, maybe stupid.

He used the foefire because he hated the charr so much he didn’t even care for his fellow soldiers in the field; he killed everyone there. Screw him. Lol lore making me mad

You really failed to understand the situation :P

Gandarel.5091:

Mathias.9657:

Gandarel.5091:

Mathias.9657:

Adelbern was a coward and should have listened to his son Rurik. (RIP)

Coward for not giving up his homeland and fighting face-to-face with the invaders even being 60+ years old ?

<Commits suicide with foefire instead of escaping with his son, rallying troops and strategizing a counter attack.

Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word coward, maybe stupid.

He used the foefire because he hated the charr so much he didn’t even care for his fellow soldiers in the field; he killed everyone there. Screw him. Lol lore making me mad

You really failed to understand the situation :P

LIES AND SLANDER!!!!!

Vayne.8563:

Take the drops from specific creatures. Do you have any idea how many times I ran Bogroot Growths with the hope of getting a Frog scepter. I can’t count them…and I never got one. That’s some how fun? That’s somehow not grind? Anet took that out because it bugged the hell out of some people.

Arenanet did not take out grinding for cosmetics.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Take the drops from specific creatures. Do you have any idea how many times I ran Bogroot Growths with the hope of getting a Frog scepter. I can’t count them…and I never got one. That’s some how fun? That’s somehow not grind? Anet took that out because it bugged the hell out of some people.

Arenanet did not take out grinding for cosmetics.

But they mostly took out getting a cosmetic item as a reward for hard content completion. They replaced it with getting a piece of a cosmetic (tokens) or some of the multitude of materials needed to craft one. They moved away from a fantasy game in which you “Kill monster —> loot valuable item” to “Kill tons of monsters —> get pieces parts.”

They also moved the RNG for drops from where you knew you could get a Frog Scepter from BG, to now you can get a precursor drop from a lot of places, with odds that are vanishingly small. This turned the pursuit of some of the finest stuff into a trading post game. Don’t think they don’t know this. That’s why the Ascended time sink is all about account bound.

Half the people on my friends list were GW1 vets that played countless hours over the course of years in that game. They played GW2 for less than 3 months and quit.

idk, I’ve first bought gw2 as a sequel, not a diff game in the same setup, as I’ve already said in another topic… I don’t like gw2 as it is, but they still did swallow my money none the less, so yeah, I am kitten ed

Ahlen.7591:

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Completely untrue. GW1 sold about twice the number of boxes GW2 did, 6 millions in fact. That is not a niche game by any measure.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/releases/pressrelease-2009-04-24.php

As for the OP, sure GW2 borrowed more heavily from WOW than GW1, so for sure players who were really into GW1 were always bound to be disappointed.

What puzzles me the most is just how many GW1 mechanics were left out of GW2: skill captures, elite skills, good PVP, and the deck-building aspect of GW1 were all novel/iconic aspects of GW1 and they were all left out of GW2, IMO to its detriment.

Vayne.8563:

Hi, my name is Vayne, i get paid from arenanet to make false statements in order to make it look like GW2 is the best game ever.

Well, if you say soo…

Considering the way Humans, the Gods, Ascalon and the Charr are treated in this game and all the retcons done to those 4 topics I’d say its pretty obvious Anet doens’t give two kittens about GW1 players.

As a GW1 fan, and a 4 year player of GW1 I’ve got a few things that I dislike about GW2.
A lot of things are done right ( Combat, dodging,visuals) but a lot of them are unpolished or just bad.
Let me explain.

This game lacks solid and interesting LORE. You can argue that the diluted and washed-up Personal story was fun. It was not. I remember cherishing every moment of the Prophecies story line. Not here. I just wanted it over with.

What about Living Story ? A joke really. Is Scarlet supposed to be a substitute for Joko or Dhuum? I think not.

Let’s talk GW1 loyalty – who here doesn’t like Ascalon?
I realize in order to make GW2 work they needed to give the Charr some space and all that but to turn it around 180 degrees and make Ascalonians the bad guys is absurd.
I – to this day cannot stand the charr. I dislike everything about them. The way they turned it around – and now the humans are the evil ones- that’s just pathetic.
“Oh it was always the flame legion, the rest of the charr were great” -give me a break.

We need Guild Halls. We need GvG.
Guild Halls and CAPES were some of the strongest reasons being in a guild in GW1 was so awesome. I don’t understand how they released this game with NO halls. Really.

You know what other stuff we’re lacking here?
FOW!
UW!
Where are these absolutely amazing areas. Imagine them rendered through the GW2 engine. Imagine going back and attempting new challenges in an old and familiar environment. Imagine the joy of exploration for new players.

The atmosphere – where has that gone? GW2’s fun and jokes atmosphere is a stark contrast to the more serious, down to earth GW1. And yes there was fun in GW1 but it was on the sidelines- there if you looked for it.

Where is the challenge? Where are the elite areas that will kick you if you wipe? Where’s the build diversity? Why must I have 5 skills tied to my weapon instead of having a POOL of skills tied to my weapon?

Why is it that as a Warrior I only have 2 viable elite skills? Where’s the skill diversity?

Where are the great armor designs that we loved in GW1? Why haven’t they been brought back? Instead we get terrible Aetherblade skins. Who wears those?
We get TOWN CLOTHES – never seen anyone wear them – instead of new armor / weapon skins. I would be ok with these being in the gem store . really . Just bring something new and awesome for a change.

Where is the party leader option – so i can form and manage my OWN party instead of this votekick. ( I start a party with 1 friend – we pug 3 more – midway through the dungeons pugs kick my friend – how is that alright?)

I would have much more to add but it is late and I am tired.
The bottom line is that as a former GW1 player i feel that GW2 borrows its name, setting, a bit of lore and a very limited vision of what GW1 was.

In the words of Jay-Z:

“You want my old s***? Buy my old album.”

I personally disliked GW1 but really enjoy GW2. GW1 is the reason I took so long to even try GW2.

Koviko.3248:

In the words of Jay-Z:

“You want my old s***? Buy my old album.”

I personally disliked GW1 but really enjoy GW2. GW1 is the reason I took so long to even try GW2.

I don’t know the context of his statement, but I assume he named his album something different. The reason your reference doesn’t hold up is because Jay Z is the brand in that example whereas, for the majority, ArenaNet is not the brand that’s being sold. If they would of made something that didn’t take place in Tyria, that didn’t use Tyrian lore, that didn’t use bs marketing to lure in fans of the original brand, then you may have a case.

@Topic, As a fan of GW1, I knew very well the differences, and embraced them because they did have a wealth of information available pre-release. But even the stuff they said would be in the game in some cases were not, so people have substantial reason to complain about this sort of clear disconnect between the devs, product, and players.

There’s a lot of stuff I’m glad they changed in GW2 and there’s a lot of stuff I wish they kept, but I’m still playing with moderate hope and an inkling of faith that this game won’t slip into a state of being completely unplayable for me.

Harper.4173:

As a GW1 fan, and a 4 year player of GW1 I’ve got a few things that I dislike about GW2.
A lot of things are done right ( Combat, dodging,visuals) but a lot of them are unpolished or just bad.
Let me explain.

This game lacks solid and interesting LORE. You can argue that the diluted and washed-up Personal story was fun. It was not. I remember cherishing every moment of the Prophecies story line. Not here. I just wanted it over with.

What about Living Story ? A joke really. Is Scarlet supposed to be a substitute for Joko or Dhuum? I think not.

Let’s talk GW1 loyalty – who here doesn’t like Ascalon?
I realize in order to make GW2 work they needed to give the Charr some space and all that but to turn it around 180 degrees and make Ascalonians the bad guys is absurd.
I – to this day cannot stand the charr. I dislike everything about them. The way they turned it around – and now the humans are the evil ones- that’s just pathetic.
“Oh it was always the flame legion, the rest of the charr were great” -give me a break.

We need Guild Halls. We need GvG.
Guild Halls and CAPES were some of the strongest reasons being in a guild in GW1 was so awesome. I don’t understand how they released this game with NO halls. Really.

You know what other stuff we’re lacking here?
FOW!
UW!
Where are these absolutely amazing areas. Imagine them rendered through the GW2 engine. Imagine going back and attempting new challenges in an old and familiar environment. Imagine the joy of exploration for new players.

The atmosphere – where has that gone? GW2’s fun and jokes atmosphere is a stark contrast to the more serious, down to earth GW1. And yes there was fun in GW1 but it was on the sidelines- there if you looked for it.

Where is the challenge? Where are the elite areas that will kick you if you wipe? Where’s the build diversity? Why must I have 5 skills tied to my weapon instead of having a POOL of skills tied to my weapon?

Why is it that as a Warrior I only have 2 viable elite skills? Where’s the skill diversity?

Where are the great armor designs that we loved in GW1? Why haven’t they been brought back? Instead we get terrible Aetherblade skins. Who wears those?
We get TOWN CLOTHES – never seen anyone wear them – instead of new armor / weapon skins. I would be ok with these being in the gem store . really . Just bring something new and awesome for a change.

Where is the party leader option – so i can form and manage my OWN party instead of this votekick. ( I start a party with 1 friend – we pug 3 more – midway through the dungeons pugs kick my friend – how is that alright?)

I would have much more to add but it is late and I am tired.
The bottom line is that as a former GW1 player i feel that GW2 borrows its name, setting, a bit of lore and a very limited vision of what GW1 was.

For a Guild Wars 1 player you sure don’t know a lot about Guild Wars 1. Take the charr turnaround. That started Eye of with the North. The Flame Legion are the bad guys to the charr, but the charr in Guild Wars 2 aren’t warm and friendly with the humans. It’s a true, not an alliance.

Story line of Prophecies? Pedestrian. Far too many time sync stupid missions. Most of the Southern Shiverpeakes. A good portion of Maguuma. Did you really get surprised that the White Mantle were bad guys? Why is my character stupider than I am.

You need to get those rose-colored glasses off and look at what’s there.

There are too many things in this topic now to address individually, but having played GW1 and GW2, I massively prefer GW2. It is, for the large part, expertly designed.

For example, a lot of the “quests” (renown hearts) are impressively open-ended (kill monsters OR remove graffiti OR throw snowballs at children) without cluttering up my UI (something GW1 did terribly in its quest log,) while not requiring me to return to the quest-giver for my reward. I think a lot of brilliant design decisions, while maybe obvious in retrospect, get overlooked by players. Not having to waste a skill slot on a skill to revive dead players, and the “downed state” in general, are both huge improvements. Canning the entire “Signet of Capture” system is a huge improvement. People say GW1 had “thousands of skill combinations” and “flexible multiclassing” like they’re inherently good things, but they’re not. Jumping into a new class in GW1 is, frankly, a nightmare of complexity, and while I like the Hero system they eventually added, it, too, made things even more complex. Complexity can be a good thing, but if a player has too many choices, so that they can hardly even evaluate most of their options, they end up barely having any real, thoughtful choices to make.

The open world is better, because I don’t have to choose to either solo or wait around to find a party before I can start having fun. The dye system is better because I can change my mind without shelling out an arm and a leg for replacement dye, of which I have dramatically fewer options. Crafting is better because I can actually make stuff, instead of hauling in supplies to have someone else make stuff. Combat is way more dynamic that it was in GW1. The list of things I, personally, think are improved goes on.

Is everyone going to feel the same way, that GW2 is unilaterally an improvement over GW1? Of course not. That would be absurd. Some people like having a bajllion skill options, or having all of their zones instanced, or any of the good features from GW1 (Guild Halls, Alliances, tons of /dance moves, etc.) People loved those things. Did they deliver “all we loved in GW1” in GW2? Actually, yeah, they did in my case, because literally nothing listed in the original post as stuff that got left out (disregarding lore, because I like GW2’s lore) was what made me like GW1. That’s not the case for everyone, though. That’s the trouble with saying “we;” you have to understand that nothing is going to please everyone. If you’re demanding that literally everything from GW1 be included and improved, yet essentially identical to how it was in GW1, you’re not asking for a new game. You’re asking for sports-style game update/remake (improved graphics and engine) or an expansion (more content while leaving old content alone.)

I think it was pretty obvious to anyone following development that GW2 was going to be a new game inspired by the old one, set in the same world as the old one, but not shackling itself to the old one. That’s why we got a new game instead of another campaign. I loved Guild Wars a lot, but GW2 is not the same game, and despite a throwaway line about “everything you loved from GW1” (which is true in my case,) anyone who expected that everything from his or her own, personal bulleted list of game “features” was going to make it through into the new game, wasn’t paying attention.

If you make a game sequel that’s too close to the old one, people complain that it’s not new enough. If you make one that’s too different, people complain that it’s not similar enough to the old one. GW1 got three campaigns, a bonus mission pack, an expansion, and two living world releases, and GW2 was never meant to be just a newer, shinier version of that. That’s why it has a “2” when none of the other GW1 products did, because it was a major change.

Posting this separately both for clarity and because the forum complained that my post was too long when I included it in the one above:

mjharrison.3209:

Ahlen.7591:

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Completely untrue. GW1 sold about twice the number of boxes GW2 did, 6 millions in fact. That is not a niche game by any measure.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/releases/pressrelease-2009-04-24.php

After twelve months, GW2 hit 3.5 mllion copies. GW1 hit 6 million in 2009, four years after it launched.(Released in April 2005, press release announcing 6 million is April 2009.) To compare those two numbers directly is just nonsensical. A more accurate comparison would be GW1 hitting 3 million in December 2006, twenty months after launch. Only time will tell how long it’ll take GW2 to hit 6 million, without the campaign releases that fueled GW1, but for their first year out, GW2 is trouncing GW1 in sales. Even if GW1 doesn’t hit 6 million, it also has gem sales to bolster its total revenue.

Redenaz.8631:

Posting this separately both for clarity and because the forum complained that my post was too long when I included it in the one above:

mjharrison.3209:

Ahlen.7591:

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Completely untrue. GW1 sold about twice the number of boxes GW2 did, 6 millions in fact. That is not a niche game by any measure.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/releases/pressrelease-2009-04-24.php

After twelve months, GW2 hit 3.5 mllion copies. GW1 hit 6 million in 2009, four years after it launched.(Released in April 2005, press release announcing 6 million is April 2009.) To compare those two numbers directly is just nonsensical. A more accurate comparison would be GW1 hitting 3 million in December 2006, twenty months after launch. Only time will tell how long it’ll take GW2 to hit 6 million, without the campaign releases that fueled GW1, but for their first year out, GW2 is trouncing GW1 in sales. Even if GW1 doesn’t hit 6 million, it also has gem sales to bolster its total revenue.

GW2 hit 3 million because of GW1.
GW1 did not have GW2 it started from scratch.

Assyrian.4827:

Redenaz.8631:

Posting this separately both for clarity and because the forum complained that my post was too long when I included it in the one above:

mjharrison.3209:

Ahlen.7591:

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Completely untrue. GW1 sold about twice the number of boxes GW2 did, 6 millions in fact. That is not a niche game by any measure.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/releases/pressrelease-2009-04-24.php

After twelve months, GW2 hit 3.5 mllion copies. GW1 hit 6 million in 2009, four years after it launched.(Released in April 2005, press release announcing 6 million is April 2009.) To compare those two numbers directly is just nonsensical. A more accurate comparison would be GW1 hitting 3 million in December 2006, twenty months after launch. Only time will tell how long it’ll take GW2 to hit 6 million, without the campaign releases that fueled GW1, but for their first year out, GW2 is trouncing GW1 in sales. Even if GW1 doesn’t hit 6 million, it also has gem sales to bolster its total revenue.

GW2 hit 3 million because of GW1.
GW1 did not have GW2 it started from scratch.

This.

GW2 is really only that popular because of all the GW1 players who racked up their HoM points because GW2 was going to have “everything you love about GW and more” in it.

A lot of my GW1 friends who I played with everyday are now gone from GW2.

Basically, the people who have never played any type of MMO before in their life, those who have no earthly idea what a real MMO is supposed to be like, white knights who wear the ANet emblem on their chest in real life, and people who like things to be handed to them for doing mediocre task in the guise of rewards play this game anymore as a majority. There’s a smaller percentage of people who play it hoping it will get better, but that percentage dwindles day by day.

I hate it when people come repeating the obvious statement that gw1 and gw2 are different games. Yes, they’re different, but many gw1 players bought gw2 expecting a sequel to the game they loved, but they didn’t get that.

Sure gw2 is still a good game, but not for the same reasons as it’s predecessor.

Things GW2 did wrongly in my opinion
- has released too many zones all at once instead of releasing them in small packs.
- masqueraded a high level cap into a down-scaling system while it could just keep the lvl 20 from GW1 and people would focus on exploring not leveling
- separated (PvE) players into regions and home servers only for the sake of WvW
- took away the 2nd profession and didn’t give any sort replacement for it so people feel constrained in one profession
- made personal story instead of world story which made people not teaming up for story instances
- took away the story importance by having all zones unlocked from the start and not unlockable through storyline
- made more paths for the same dungeon instead of making different dungeons with the same result in segregating players
- added level requirements to items

…If we’re going to discount GW2’s massive sales on account of it having a pre-built playerbase, then the whole idea of comparing them numerically is out. As long as mjharrison was listing numbers, however, I thought it only correct to put them in context.

Of course, one could also say that Prophecies fueled sales of Factions, which fueled sales of Nightfall. I think the idea of comparing games with such different release models, one of which is broken into multiple standalone releases (that get bundled for numbers purposes,) while the other is a sequel to that mult-faceted release, is ridiculous. Apples to oranges.

Boy tell me about it OP :/

Amazing how they completely dropped the best parts of Gw1 in Gw2, just makes no sense.
Much of it would only add to the fun for Non Gw1 players too.
Finding your skills was amazing and something no other MMO did for example and gave you tons more to do.

GW2 is great dont get me wrong but it just feels so “shallow” compared to gw1. (And that has nothing to do with age or expansions.) The most basic of and amazing things were not carried over. Most of it would only add to Gw2 to do list; would conflict nothing.

You can’t accurately compare GW2 sales to GW1 sales because unless the figures are supplied by Anet they will be counting the number of boxes sold rather than the number of accounts created.

Meaning if someone buys just one campaign and then gets the others later that will count as 4 sales (3 if they ignore EOTN, since it’s an expansion), even though it’s only one account and one player.

But it’s also not as easy as adding up all the sales and dividing by 3, because there will be people who only bought one, or two, or got the complete collection with all of them.

mjharrison.3209:

Ahlen.7591:

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Completely untrue. GW1 sold about twice the number of boxes GW2 did, 6 millions in fact. That is not a niche game by any measure.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/releases/pressrelease-2009-04-24.php

To be fair that 6 million number includes multiple games (Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and of course Eye of the North). A significant percentage of the number you quote are likely to have been the same person buying two or even three of the campaigns, as well as EotN, and so are not likely to be an indicator of GW1 population.

Add in the fact that those numbers were achieved over the course of four years rather than GW2’s 3.5 million in its first few months, and the scope of the difference becomes more apparent.

Still the, “1-5%” stated by the poster you quoted seems awfully low to me. Even if those 6 million GW1 sales only translated into a million and a half players (after all those who did not enjoy their first campaign would be unlikely to buy others) and only a third of those bought GW2 (which is a low projection if they were fans of the original) that equates to 500k GW1 players buying GW2. These seem like very conservative numbers to me and still represent almost triple the high end of the percentage range quoted.

An interesting point to me is that GW1 seemed to achieve its sales numbers without the same degree of hype and advertisement we saw leading up to GW2’s release. A product that sold on word of mouth and return customers vs a product that sold based on advertisement.

They didn’t forget me.

I would agree that I doubt 1-5% of the GW1 came from GW2. My gut instinct would say it’s probably more along the lines of 15-25%.

Regardless, I also believe that the bulk of the current playerbase are from outside the GW “veteran” fandom, and those players want something more akin to “traditional” MMOs. They are the ones that ripped through their way to 80, and felt there was nothing to do because there was no “endgame.” They’re the one who clad themselves in exotics easily, and asked, “Where’s the Tier 1 raid?”

At that point… something had to give.

I don’t feel forgotten as I mentioned above, but I do feel a bit neglected.

As Vayne has pointed out, there are tiny tidbits of lore here and there, but mostly it has been neglected.

Everyone and their cat can point to “What about this” and “What about that”, but GW1 lore has had very little impact on GW2 and little of it has resurfaced in any significant way. Heck, they even took all the gods away. Sheesh!!!

I know the company wants to make it new and fresh, but much of the draw for many of us long time players of GW1 was to see what they would do with the world we so loved to play in. I think many of us are disappointed at a place that seems to have forgotten it’s history and only in spare ways resembles the places and things we loved in the original game.

Again, I don’t feel forgotten, but I do feel let down by the neglect of lore.

Mesket.5728:

The big question to ask is:

Would so many GW1 fans buy this game knowing there were not going to be any additional zones so far? Knowing the atrocities their “art” team is doing? How the lore of the game is being put aside for lame excuses to use the gem store?

/shrug

Some of us probably didn’t realize how very different it would be, or were willing to give ANet the benefit of the doubt that the changes would be welcome. Both for me. And let down on both as well.

Mesket.5728:

The big question to ask is:

Would so many GW1 fans buy this game knowing there were not going to be any additional zones so far? Knowing the atrocities their “art” team is doing? How the lore of the game is being put aside for lame excuses to use the gem store?

Because coming from GW, we decided to give them the benefit of the doubt. There were things in GW that were addressed pretty fast and some that weren’t. But that resulted in us trusting them with what they were doing and we all blindly followed like loyalist. I’ll admit that I was one of them. The sad reality is that we got that trust thrown back in our faces and the result is what we have here.

I thought it was neat to see the giant Searing crystal in the middle of ashford.

Redenaz.8631:

…despite a throwaway line about “everything you loved from GW1” (which is true in my case,) anyone who expected that everything from his or her own, personal bulleted list of game “features” was going to make it through into the new game, wasn’t paying attention.

There’s a lot I wanted to comment on with your post that I disagreed with, but I’ll stick with this line because it simplifies the issue.

When he said “everything you loved from GW1” he didn’t mean “you” individually, he meant “you all” or “ya’ll.” He’s speaking to an audience, not a single person. He was speaking to the GW1 crowd.

Now, if he’s speaking in generalities about “what we loved from GW1” what do you think he meant with that? It would make the most sense to assume he meant those things which made GW1 unique and popular among its playerbase. Unique, because otherwise you could get it from other games; and popular, because of the things people like to do most…the content that is fun, challenging, etc. So, let’s break those down.

What was unique about GW1? I’ll throw out five for good measure.

• Skill Capping
• Secondary Professions
• Minimal leveling cap(20)
• Hundreds of build/skill options
• AB & GvG PvP Arenas

What was popular about GW1? 5 more generally considered “good” aspects.

• PvP
• Build Customization
• Elite/Challenging Farming Areas
• Heroes(post NF) see footnote
• The Story

The above things(or a similar list) have to be a consensual agreement among the GW1 player base for there to be any legitimate discussion about the merits and flaws of that game. Otherwise, it’s all hearsay and opinion.

Heroes: there was a rather large chasm between the pre and post-NF playerbase concerning heroes. A lot of players thought they made the game too easy and solo-able. Others thought they were a godsend.

Redenaz.8631:

- snip -

Concerning your own personal opinions:

• I agree, Renown Hearts are a good thing
• The downed state is a horrible design decision. The fact that any one of dozens of players/mobs that someone “tags” has the potential to revive you is beyond comprehension. A random moa going down halfway across the map can revive someone I’m about to spike? wth
• I thought skill capping was brilliant. It encouraged both exploration and build diversity. Two things which are sorely lacking in this game.
• Choices. I don’t know about you, but having more freedom to customize my character is better than having very little. Complexity is a good thing, it challenges you to really theory-craft your builds instead of the half a dozen choices we have now with each class.
• The open world is better…although I don’t see why they can’t have both. Having solo or grouped instanced zones for vanquishing would be really easy to implement. Not to mention awesome.
• The dye system now is better and worse. Better for your main toon, worse for your alts.
• Crafting is better by default…since it didn’t exist in the first one.
• Combat is better, although personally I think it plays a bit too much like an FPS console game. It’s very action-oriented, but they didn’t need to scrap real team strategy to do that.

Antara.3189:

I cannot believe I’m saying this, and I’m sure Vayne would smile at this comment but,

It’s time to move on from the GW1 days. They were great and I remember them fondly. (Frolicking through the Ascalonian daisys before the searing.. anyways), times have changed, and so has Tyria. Keep the spirit true and be thankful you took part in a niche community.

Cheers

I just want my GW1 days back… it hurts so much :’( HA, GVG, build variety… whyyyyyyy!!111

Erick Alastor.3917:

thedrumchannell.2405:

Guild Wars 1
snip

+ Better prestigious armors
(comparing this gw1 armor with the real ascended would be too unfair so I’ll use an enhanced version designed by one of the member of my guild).

GW1 had a better sense of aesthetics and the power of simple designs. GW2 is in your face constantly trying to prove it really is a big-boy mmo and that the flashier your armor the bigger the epen.

milo.6942:

Erick Alastor.3917:

thedrumchannell.2405:

Guild Wars 1
snip

+ Better prestigious armors
(comparing this gw1 armor with the real ascended would be too unfair so I’ll use an enhanced version designed by one of the member of my guild).

GW1 had a better sense of aesthetics and the power of simple designs. GW2 is in your face constantly trying to prove it really is a big-boy mmo and that the flashier your armor the bigger the epen.

This. 1000 times.
Enough with the silly heavy armor – give us Elite Templar and Elite Platemail already. IT’s been TOO LONG.

Not to change the subject but I wonder how much of what everyone is talking about (other than sales) are background reasons why two of the three founders left ArenaNet during the development of Guild Wars 2.
I know that one of the founders that left did comment that he did not like the direction that Mike was taking the game. When asked if that was the reason he left he commented that it was “time for me (him) to move on.” He declined to comment further.

I’ve written enough in this thread already that anyone can check my other posts for my opinions, but I wanted to note that Obsidian’s criticisms, while not necessarily all ones I agree with, are generally insightful and well-presented.

I spend a lot of my time on these forums shooting at half-formed ideas (“Anet hates money! Lazy devs! Freedom of DLC is a right!”) so it only seems appropriate to acknowledge an unusually good, opposing opinion, and this one cast a new light on some things I hadn’t considered. Props to you.

Redenaz.8631:

I’ve written enough in this thread already that anyone can check my other posts for my opinions, but I wanted to note that Obsidian’s criticisms, while not necessarily all ones I agree with, are generally insightful and well-presented.

I spend a lot of my time on these forums shooting at half-formed ideas (“Anet hates money! Lazy devs! Freedom of DLC is a right!”) so it only seems appropriate to acknowledge an unusually good, opposing opinion, and this one cast a new light on some things I hadn’t considered. Props to you.

Thank you.

Although I have to admit, a lot of my posts can be fairly angsty. :/

Obsidian.1328:

Redenaz.8631:

- snip -

Concerning your own personal opinions:

• I agree, Renown Hearts are a good thing
• The downed state is a horrible design decision. The fact that any one of dozens of players/mobs that someone “tags” has the potential to revive you is beyond comprehension. A random moa going down halfway across the map can revive someone I’m about to spike? wth
• I thought skill capping was brilliant. It encouraged both exploration and build diversity. Two things which are sorely lacking in this game.
• Choices. I don’t know about you, but having more freedom to customize my character is better than having very little. Complexity is a good thing, it challenges you to really theory-craft your builds instead of the half a dozen choices we have now with each class.
• The open world is better…although I don’t see why they can’t have both. Having solo or grouped instanced zones for vanquishing would be really easy to implement. Not to mention awesome.
• The dye system now is better and worse. Better for your main toon, worse for your alts.
• Crafting is better by default…since it didn’t exist in the first one.
• Combat is better, although personally I think it plays a bit too much like an FPS console game. It’s very action-oriented, but they didn’t need to scrap real team strategy to do that.

Downed state in PvE, however, is one of my favorite things in this game. I hate dying generally and getting a chance to rally after being downed can be really excited and adds to the overall PvE experience.

As for dyes, I don’t understand your comment. How can it be better for your main and worse for your alts.

In Guild Wars 1, you’d need 5 black dyes to dye your armor back and another 5 black dyes to dye your alt’s armor black.

At worst, it’s the same. And because there are so many shades of near black and near white here that don’t cost a fortune, even for alts, the dye system is better in Guild Wars 2.

Vayne

Everyone hates dying. But the downed state just makes the PvE aspect easier overall. There’s very little “fear” of character death. Just another way the game is more casual than GW1.

The dyes…what’s not to understand? My main has got a few cool looking dyes over the past year, and I’ve opened every single one of them that dropped. No Abyss, 1 Celestial, no LS dyes. Can’t buy them with laurels because I need those for ascended trinkets. Can’t buy them with gold because I really only do W3 and I’m poor.

So, even though my main has a ton of dyes to choose from, it took a year.

My alts, on the other hand, even though 2 are 80, have very limited dyes to choose from. And again, opened every one they got as a drop. A few are neat, but nothing like the pricey ones that do make a difference in appearance. Those high-end dyes are expensive for a reason, they look awesome.

For a game that prides itself on aesthetics, I miss the boat on that. I don’t really care personally, that’s not why I play. But it’s a factor nontheless.

note: now if they made them purchasable with Karma…that would be ok.

mjharrison.3209:

Ahlen.7591:

lol @ OP, I actually think that MAYBE 1-5% of the GW2 population came from GW1. GW1 was an insanely tiny niche game.

Completely untrue. GW1 sold about twice the number of boxes GW2 did, 6 millions in fact. That is not a niche game by any measure.

Yeah over eight years time. Three million (closer to four actually) in a year is a blockbuster so far as video games go, six million over eight years is the average sales of a piddly D list title.

Guild Wars was not appealing to the average gamer in most every sense, but it had a playerbase that loyally purchased every expansion and supported the store, it was a niche title by any and every measure.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Everyone hates dying. But the downed state just makes the PvE aspect easier overall. There’s very little “fear” of character death. Just another way the game is more casual than GW1.

I think they could definitely add in some features that would encourage players to die less, maybe like a bonus at the end of a dungeon if no one was down or dead for the run, etc.

For a game that prides itself on aesthetics, I miss the boat on that. I don’t really care personally, that’s not why I play. But it’s a factor nontheless.

For a game that prides itself on aesthetics, I’d think the most worthy thing to talk about is transmutation stones: Just, yuck. At least its better with the splitter but still horribly tedious. I’d want every game, MMO or otherwise, to implement what Rift did with it’s wardrobing (if only they did it for their weapons as well). I heard LotR:O had a pretty good system in place, as well.

How does it compare to GW1 specifically? I suppose they’re pretty similar, but the price of salvaging your runes from one set to another didn’t fluctuate, gems do.