Guild Wars 2

“Balance Changes Upcoming” is doublespeak for NERF Upcoming

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

Greetings, Tyrians!

We are here today to talk about some of the build-thematic changes that will be coming with the next balance iteration. Depending on your chosen profession and your role in combat, these changes may require some stat-swapping on your gear. We feel that giving a bit of a “heads-up” is appropriate.

One of the most notable changes being made is to the healing values of the Druid as a primary healer. Base values for the Celestial Avatar heals will be reduced, while the healing power contribution will be enhanced significantly. The reasoning for these changes is that while we are excited about the Druid being an incredibly strong healer, we would also like to see that role as one of many choices in your attribute build.

Similarly, there will be changes in boon duration and boon application for a few professions. For the Revenant, we’ll be looking at reducing Naturalistic Resonance’s base boon duration. For Mesmer, we’re looking at making Signet of Inspiration’s boon sharing functionality a bit more controlled, giving each shared boon a fixed duration. To help compensate for these general reductions, we’ll be increasing both damage and a few different baseline boon durations.

As this update rolls out we will continue to monitor the effectiveness of these changes, along with the remainder of the balance updates, and will make additional adjustments and tweaks as necessary. Thanks very much for your time!

-The Skills Team

These are terrible ideas, you should scrap them entirely. Druid healing does not need to be nerfed, its healing is underwhelming as it is, what need nefed is the damage modifiers druid spams without losing anything for it. Nerfing quickness uptime in any way will make thief less viable, and make eles, guardians, and necros much more viable than any other dps classes.

Dominik.5162:

trunks.1659:

XPilo.5862:

Elementalist mandatory nerf incoming.

I am betting the Mender’s amulet gets nixed, based on what’s happening to Druid. But Scepter AA dmg will get a 3% increase so it’s fine.

You are talking about two different things, you are about PvP while the comment you quoted is about PvE…

What? The post I quoted says nothing one way or another. These changes overall impact both sides, and are part of an ongoing effort by ANet to prevent players who are healing from doing meaningful damage. It’s not specific to either game mode.

I do expect Ele will eat a PvE-targeted nerf as well to placate the people crying about no more perma-quickness, but that might at least be defensible. The snark of “mandatory nerf inc” suggests an unwarranted change, i.e., in PvP, where Ele is a dumpster fire.

cranos.5913:

morrolan.9608:

Spira.4578:

cranos.5913:

The increased alacrity will make up for it slightly and put ele on top again. Depending on what they do with the chrono dmg boost we prob won’t notice an actual dps loss much. Just a big middle finger to people who play the other 50% of the classes.

Which is not the purpose of balance, is it?
We are all aware that balance patches are needed, we’re just not happy their approach to it.

Split modes.

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Please be all means explain to me how boon sharing was a problem in raids and how forcing us to take more chronos will solve that issue.

^^ it will just make double mesmer mirror comp 100% mandatory

cranos.5913:

morrolan.9608:

Spira.4578:

cranos.5913:

The increased alacrity will make up for it slightly and put ele on top again. Depending on what they do with the chrono dmg boost we prob won’t notice an actual dps loss much. Just a big middle finger to people who play the other 50% of the classes.

Which is not the purpose of balance, is it?
We are all aware that balance patches are needed, we’re just not happy their approach to it.

Split modes.

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Please be all means explain to me how boon sharing was a problem in raids and how forcing us to take more chronos will solve that issue.

Its a problem because it clearly results in a squad having greater access to boons than anet intended and makes the raids easier than they should be. You don’t need to take more chronos for successful raid runs, you might choose to if you want faster runs but thats a personal choice.

morrolan.9608:

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Boon sharing has never been a PvE/Raid problem, don’t talk about things you have no idea about.

Raids will still finish at the same speed now it just kills diversity since we’ll take 2 chronos instead of 1 and remove all classes that don’t benefit from alacrity (RIP thief, hammer DH, rev etc).

Even with the SOI Nerf we’d get every boon we need, that isn’t even a problem for PvE since we don’t stack everything up to 3 minutes like WvW.

Spira.4578:

vicious.5683:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Someone jokingly mentioned earlier that anet would also nerf epidemic too just to screw necros, well you know what? Epidemic deserves to nerfed in raids, that skill is completely ridiculous. It doesn’t just make bosses’ adds trivial, it makes them a negative for the boss, unless the fight is set up in such a way that necros are completely horrible (a la KC). With epidemic nerfed, it would be reasonable to buff other aspects of necromancer to make them more generally useful, which would both improve viability of necromancer and make raids better as a whole.

You say necro’s only reason to be in raids is Epidemic and you wanna nerf it? LOL
If you buff other aspects of necro’s builds then you will generate unbalance in pvp. And believe me, no one wants necro to be OP in pvp.
Epidemic is just right and needed to make the entire profession viable in raids.

Epidemic is FAR from right. There’s a reason why there are “5 necro meta” lfgs for high level fractals out there. Epidemic is OP as hell.
2x higher HP with an additional HP bar, with a ranged weapon that can easily make a 30k beeding aoe ongoing dps (without having to constatnly attack), is far away from just “okay”.

ahhahahaha good joke dude.

Necromancer, even with Epidemic, is subpar dps wise compared to various other classes.
Without Epidemic necromancers are again trash tier. Slow stacking bleeds, no mobility, no invulns, no evasion, the “second hp bar” degenerates itself, and you have to build it, lame power builds.
Necromancers are just fine for fractals and almost out of meta in raids.

morrolan.9608:

cranos.5913:

morrolan.9608:

Spira.4578:

cranos.5913:

The increased alacrity will make up for it slightly and put ele on top again. Depending on what they do with the chrono dmg boost we prob won’t notice an actual dps loss much. Just a big middle finger to people who play the other 50% of the classes.

Which is not the purpose of balance, is it?
We are all aware that balance patches are needed, we’re just not happy their approach to it.

Split modes.

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Please be all means explain to me how boon sharing was a problem in raids and how forcing us to take more chronos will solve that issue.

Its a problem because it clearly results in a squad having greater access to boons than anet intended and makes the raids easier than they should be. You don’t need to take more chronos for successful raid runs, you might choose to if you want faster runs but thats a personal choice.

10 man group content & personal choice, right.

Moreover there’s never been any comment about it “making raids too easy”. Combined with the AMA stating the balance will mostly be WvW focused I highly doubt they considered it a pve problem.

And also, when talking about balance “you can choose to be subpar” is a ridiculous argument. Balance should be done properly regardless.

Dinosaurs.8674:

vicious.5683:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Someone jokingly mentioned earlier that anet would also nerf epidemic too just to screw necros, well you know what? Epidemic deserves to nerfed in raids, that skill is completely ridiculous. It doesn’t just make bosses’ adds trivial, it makes them a negative for the boss, unless the fight is set up in such a way that necros are completely horrible (a la KC). With epidemic nerfed, it would be reasonable to buff other aspects of necromancer to make them more generally useful, which would both improve viability of necromancer and make raids better as a whole.

You say necro’s only reason to be in raids is Epidemic and you wanna nerf it? LOL
If you buff other aspects of necro’s builds then you will generate unbalance in pvp. And believe me, no one wants necro to be OP in pvp.
Epidemic is just right and needed to make the entire profession viable in raids.

Yeah that’s why I’m saying epidemic is awful for necromancers, because they rely completely on that skill to be good in raids. That skill is so good on its own that other necromancer skills and traits cannot get significant buffs, and so if you encounter a situation where epidemic doesn’t help, the entire class becomes bad. It would be much better if epidemic was a worse skill and other necromancer skills and traits were better to compensate.

condition necros are just fine right now. Power builds in the other hand needs several buffs to stop being lame.

all i remember was long ago they “balance” engi’s cc… my engi been in catching dust ever since then… now i just made a full ascended rev….RIP… before we know it all classes will be balance then its time to move on to a new game…

Spira.4578:

Nuzt.7894:

Once again, did someone say WvW was difficult ? I must have missed it, literally everything in this game is built for casual play there is no such thing as “hard” in GW2 in any mode.

Nah, you just keep saying how much easier everything else is, while in fact, WvW is the most braind-dead mode in this game x’D

Of course, it’s mainly PvE players whining in this thread, if was a a majority of WvW players I would be saying the exact same thing to them, as well as PvP if they were the one crying. As far as WvW being the most brain dead mode, I’d say all modes are pretty much braindead, the difference with PvP and WvW is your playing other people, they aren’t scripted you don’t already know they are going to unleash hell at 20% chances are they will be mashing 1 and it won’t require thought but occasionally a unicorn appears and they press #2.

Guizao.4167:

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

Just another round of blah blah blah kitten ez PvE oriented balance patches, nothing really big. I’m afraid you guys don’t actually have a proper balance team but I didn’t see the patch yet so I shouldn’t be saying things like this right? rolls eyes

These are WvW oriented. They just happen to kill any diversity left in pve as well.

Oh but isn’t WvW just another aspect of PvE? But with players? Nvm!

No it’s actually an aspect of pvp that’s not completely dead yet.

Nuzt.7894:

the difference with PvP and WvW is your playing other people, they aren’t scripted you don’t already know they are going to unleash hell at 20% chances are they will be mashing 1 and it won’t require thought but occasionally a unicorn appears and they press #2.

Which doesn’t mean much if everyone’s using the same strategy.
People in wvw will react and counter react in the same way making it boring as well.
70% of the time people simply spam swiftness skills to run from one point to another.
20% of the time they spam 1 and other aoe skills and 10% of the time they actually might do something right by throwing down a wall, portal and other things that would benefit a side in the fight of the blobs – that is, if they have a good enough pc to not get negative FPS as soon a the 2 sides clashes. In that case they will probably just spam things and hope for the best.

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

Just another round of blah blah blah kitten ez PvE oriented balance patches, nothing really big. I’m afraid you guys don’t actually have a proper balance team but I didn’t see the patch yet so I shouldn’t be saying things like this right? rolls eyes

These are WvW oriented. They just happen to kill any diversity left in pve as well.

Oh but isn’t WvW just another aspect of PvE? But with players? Nvm!

No it’s actually an aspect of pvp that’s not completely dead yet.

It’s not near an aspect of pvp…if it was it would be far more decent.

Guizao.4167:

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

Just another round of blah blah blah kitten ez PvE oriented balance patches, nothing really big. I’m afraid you guys don’t actually have a proper balance team but I didn’t see the patch yet so I shouldn’t be saying things like this right? rolls eyes

These are WvW oriented. They just happen to kill any diversity left in pve as well.

Oh but isn’t WvW just another aspect of PvE? But with players? Nvm!

No it’s actually an aspect of pvp that’s not completely dead yet.

It’s not near an aspect of pvp…if it was it would be far more decent.

Like ranked queue you mean? rofl

vicious.5683:

Spira.4578:

vicious.5683:

Spira.4578:

vicious.5683:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Someone jokingly mentioned earlier that anet would also nerf epidemic too just to screw necros, well you know what? Epidemic deserves to nerfed in raids, that skill is completely ridiculous. It doesn’t just make bosses’ adds trivial, it makes them a negative for the boss, unless the fight is set up in such a way that necros are completely horrible (a la KC). With epidemic nerfed, it would be reasonable to buff other aspects of necromancer to make them more generally useful, which would both improve viability of necromancer and make raids better as a whole.

You say necro’s only reason to be in raids is Epidemic and you wanna nerf it? LOL
If you buff other aspects of necro’s builds then you will generate unbalance in pvp. And believe me, no one wants necro to be OP in pvp.
Epidemic is just right and needed to make the entire profession viable in raids.

Epidemic is FAR from right. There’s a reason why there are “5 necro meta” lfgs for high level fractals out there. Epidemic is OP as hell.
2x higher HP with an additional HP bar, with a ranged weapon that can easily make a 30k beeding aoe ongoing dps (without having to constatnly attack), is far away from just “okay”.

ahhahahaha good joke dude.

Necromancer, even with Epidemic, is subpar dps wise compared to various other classes.
Without Epidemic necromancers are again trash tier. Slow stacking bleeds, no mobility, no invulns, no evasion, the “second hp bar” degenerates itself, and you have to build it, lame power builds.
Necromancers are just fine for fractals and almost out of meta in raids.

Which is exactly why they should balance them.
If the whole class is literally good because of 1 skill and 1 skill only (not even mechanics, but literally a utility skill) then it needs some serious balancing. Nerfing that kitten down and give other necro aspects some love.

vicious.5683:

“you don’t sacrifice anything” looooooooool
Really, dude stop embarrassing yourself, if you dont know kitten, please stay out of the discussion

In any game there are this 3 things that should be in some kind of balance… buff, damage, personal survivability. If a class is built in a way to have huge survivability, then it should be lacking buffs and damage. A necromancer, considering he has double the hp and an additional hp bar and attacking from afar, should in fact have a way lower dps.
Compare him to a thief, for instance, which yes, has a huge damage output, but he’s sacrificing a lot of his survivability (and clearly buffs) to get it, both because of his low hp and his close range attacks and you’ll see that ssomething simply isn’t balanced right.
Or, in other words, try making another class with 30k HP to match necros HP and equip a long range weapon to it – and then tell me whats that class damage output. Do that to all classes actually, and let me know what’s the highest value you get to.
You can laugh as loud as you want, but atm the class with the most inbalanced ratio between boon:survivability:damage is in fact necromancer.
Clearly you’re the one not knowing much about this matter, so maybe you should take your own advice and stay out of this discussion.
Btw, necros are getting a nerf to, lowering the max amount of condis from 25 to 10.

Necromancer survivability is not that good as you are saying. And again, Shroud is not a second hp bar.

Go and play a necromancer and see by yourself how wrong and biased you are.

Necro boons: Completely non existent.
Necro damage: between subpar and just fine.
Necro survivability: ok. Its just different from thief survivability, again necros don’t have any active defenses. Just high base hp, and his PROFESSION MECHANIC ie: Shroud. Necros dont have F1-F5 like chronos, or 3 never ending stamina bars like dd. You don’t want “2 hp bars”? Ok, give necros evades, invulns, instant full hp skills, escapes, teleports, etc. If not, stop complaining about a class you know nothing about.

Its like you are just crying because a necro just kicked your kitten in pvp or wvw.

Shroud is not a “2nd health bar”? Okay – i’ll take that as a school lesson.

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

cranos.5913:

Guizao.4167:

Just another round of blah blah blah kitten ez PvE oriented balance patches, nothing really big. I’m afraid you guys don’t actually have a proper balance team but I didn’t see the patch yet so I shouldn’t be saying things like this right? rolls eyes

These are WvW oriented. They just happen to kill any diversity left in pve as well.

Oh but isn’t WvW just another aspect of PvE? But with players? Nvm!

No it’s actually an aspect of pvp that’s not completely dead yet.

It’s not near an aspect of pvp…if it was it would be far more decent.

Like ranked queue you mean? rofl

I see, go back to kitten sports ELS yes?

Even if you think the other games mode you don’t play are trash I think everyone can agree that balancing for one mode while ruining the others = BAD.

SPLIT BALANCE NOW.

vicious.5683:

Necromancer survivability is not that good as you are saying. And again, Shroud is not a second hp bar.

Go and play a necromancer and see by yourself how wrong and biased you are.

Necro boons: Completely non existent.
Necro damage: between subpar and just fine.
Necro survivability: ok. Its just different from thief survivability, again necros don’t have any active defenses. Just high base hp, and his PROFESSION MECHANIC ie: Shroud. Necros dont have F1-F5 like chronos, or 3 never ending stamina bars like dd. You don’t want “2 hp bars”? Ok, give necros evades, invulns, instant full hp skills, escapes, teleports, etc. If not, stop complaining about a class you know nothing about.

Its like you are just crying because a necro just kicked your kitten in pvp or wvw.

I’m playing a necromancer, besides revenant, guardian, engi, warrior and druid – depending on the game mode.

Once again a x2 HP + shroud (which is another HP bar and adds to the survivability a lot), is in fact a huge difference compared to a class with 12k hp.
Necro boons: I agree
Necro damage: not at all, it’s between fine and OP – depending on who’s playing it.
Necro survivability: Top tier, as explained before, get any other to the same amount of HP and you will deal even less than 50% of what a necro can. = inbalance
A thief will get downed in 1 hit, so will a mesmer. and yes, it’s true that they have a few escapes there, however – while they escape they will lose their damage output – both because they won’t be able to attack while escaping and because they will have to switch to an alt weapon. A necro, considering we’re talking about ticks of condis, will still deal the same damage with his condis even if he has to dodge out, or move away. He’s still going to be on long range and use the same rotation of skills.
And since you mentione mesmers – I’d totally agree with you; If they wouldn’t be lacking damage in general to being with.

And nope, I’m not crying – I’m being reasonable.
Necro needs a big nerf to their condi damage output, which it’s getting as it was already confirmed by ANET devs. So the joke’s on you.

fishball.7204:

Even if you think the other games mode you don’t play are trash I think everyone can agree that balancing for one mode while ruining the others = BAD.

SPLIT BALANCE NOW.

They once said something about “new technology”…but…you know…

Druid is a Burst Healer. No buff will make this usefull in WvW.
Mesmer Boon Share isnt even Meta.
Revenant F1 isnt even broken…..

All Hail Condi Meta (again) ?

So nothing for WvW? ????

Gaile Gray.6029:

One of the most notable changes being made is to the healing values of the Druid as a primary healer. Base values for the Celestial Avatar heals will be reduced, while the healing power contribution will be enhanced significantly. The reasoning for these changes is that while we are excited about the Druid being an incredibly strong healer, we would also like to see that role as one of many choices in your attribute build.

Will Druids be getting DPS boosts when in more DPSy gear, or is this just a straight nerf in their overall survivability? Reducing their base ability to heal without buffing their other options would not open up any new choices, it would just make all other choices even worse.

Another completely unnecessary nerf. Does anyone at Anet actually play hardcore Druid? Every nerf has been a kneejerk reaction from PvP without any thought to how it affects PvE or the content it was designed for: Raids. I’ve advocated over and over again that Anet needs to stop with trying to balance between three incredibly different game modes. It cannot be done, and let’s face it, you only care about eSports revenue anyway.

Nerfing baseline healing values is obviously going to make all off-heal builds become nonviable, namely Viper’s. Where is the build diversity here? Forcing people to run Magi’s gear to be an effective healer is shoehorning Druid into a Raid-only spec. I don’t think I need to go into details why this is a terrible design and direction.

If you are trying to cull the power creep HoT created (which was clearly going to happen from the get-go), then it needs to be across the board. Ranger has had huge problems that needed to be addressed for 3 years before it was “reinvented” into Druid. If you want to make vanilla classes viable again, Ranger was certainly the worst class the start with, since it flat out needs a rework to be viable in today’s meta. Not only does it have poor DPS options, pets are a function the majority of Ranger mains want to become optional or outright gone. The couple of buffs Ranger are forced to build are not enough to carve out any sort of definitive role, which is why the “Healer” band-aid worked at all.

We as a community need some justification and reasoning for drastic changes like this. The company’s transparency became a hard wall of PR when MO took over, and the players have definitely noticed. New management has finally started to deliver, but the relationship and trust still hasn’t been rebuilt almost a full year later.

I love how these forums are going Chicken Little " The Sky is Falling" before seeing the actual changes.

EriskRedLemur.7153:

Maybe people should stop doomsaying and whining before the actual detailed changes are released. Who knows what ELSE they will add/change to balance things. I’d find it hilarious if they buff Mesmer despite the doom and gloom here over a signet change.

It could be anet totally screws PvE for PvP/WvW balances. Until we get the actual changes I am not wasting time crying a river and overreacting. IF things end up being as ppl say here, I will be there with my own tears. Until then, I’ll wait before grabbing the pitchforks and torches. Plus I misplaced my pitchforks.

Thing is, Anet has a history of nerfing mesmer in PvE because its overtuned in PvP, why should we expect any different now?

cranos.5913:

Mr Vivi Ornitier.4271:

cranos.5913:

Mr Vivi Ornitier.4271:

i need to ask this will you be re balancing raids to make up for the dps loss or will we just have to run 8 eles 2 druids?

There’s almost no DPS loss, just a lot less classes that actually get to join. 5/5 mirror comp is already pretty decent and will stay that way. Rev just gets deleted and druid put into a healing only role (because obvs druid rly needed their 2 fun builds nerfed for whatever reason).

yep it really will delete rev as their will be no room for it as ur need that second mes for the same quickness up time but then ur losing out on damage becz mes damage is trash so more eles needed. i already main zealots druid/ele/thief in raids so im not hit that hard by this but my friend only plays rev so he will probs have 2 switch class or risk being dropped from weekly raids

The increased alacrity will make up for it slightly and put ele on top again. Depending on what they do with the chrono dmg boost we prob won’t notice an actual dps loss much. Just a big middle finger to people who play the other 50% of the classes.

Who said alacrity will be buffed though? I highly doubt it will be buffed at all, and in fact a little surprised if it isn’t nerfed a little bit as well (mainly by reducing our access to it)

Astralporing.1957:

OriOri.8724:

Zelulose.8695:

It isn’t all bad. They are increasing mesmer damage

Nukkuu.6591:

But we’re a support class and always have been. Our damage is irrelevant, if people want to do damage they should role another class. 90% of classes do damage. Let us keeps our unique active support role.

No kitten this mentality. I shouldn’t have to roll another class just to be able to deal damage if I like playing as mesmer/chrono.

…do you seriously think that’s going to change? Or, at least, that it’s going to change with this balance patch?

OriOri.8724:

The only decision I should have to make is whether I want to run a DPS build or a support (alacrity + quickness) build, I shouldn’t be forced into a support role, not in this game.

I can tell you, with a high degree of certainty, that if, after that change, you will try to use a Chrono dps build without support, you will either be kicked out of that raid group, or you will get carried. Hard.

I never said I was going to, I don’t even raid. If you’ll notice, I focus on solo PvE content when talking about mesmer needing a DPS spec. And this doesn’t change the fact that I, as a mesmer, should have a choice to run a DPS build if I want to. I don’t expect to be at thief or ele level, but it should be a respectable DPS build that doesn’t take forever to ramp up and is good against more than 1 target.

Decreasing the base healing of celestial avatar and increasing the healing contribution will not cause players to stop running one build (heal/zerk) and start running two builds (heal and zerk). It will just cause them to go from one build (heal/zerk) to one build (heal)

Thanks for destroying the PvE to try to save the PVP modes that like 75% of the players don’t care about. Two of the classes I like the most are gone get nerf the druid (main) and the Chrono (alt). One more reason to stop playing the game.

I think that this wont give more build diversity to druid but rather make EVERYONE use menders druid … with CA healing shave people WILL want to run menders more … not really a good idea imo but we will see when the changes are done

I hope you realize how self-defeating this stupid change is for druids.

You’re effectively going to pigeonhole them into healing power by decreasing baseline healing without giving the druid specialization any additions to make it viable in an offensive stat build as a DPS role.

What are these developers doing? They haven’t fixed what makes core ranger and druid dreadfully weak DPS builds, so they have to play a dps/healer hybrid, and with this change now rangers will be forced into healing power gear so they can’t even contribute much DPS at all.

You’re also going to effectively delete druids from open world as they can no longer solo or be self sufficient due to not being able to run dps gear without gutting their celestial avatar survivability/utility.

DanAlcedo.3281:

Druid is a Burst Healer. No buff will make this usefull in WvW.
Mesmer Boon Share isnt even Meta.
Revenant F1 isnt even broken…..

All Hail Condi Meta (again) ?

Mesmer Boon Share is Meta in WvW.
Revenant F2 combines with Mesmer to make the Boon Share beast.
Condi Meta has been here for a long time, Resistance has merely covered up that it’s still going.

fishball.7204:

morrolan.9608:

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Boon sharing has never been a PvE/Raid problem, don’t talk about things you have no idea about.

Raids will still finish at the same speed now it just kills diversity since we’ll take 2 chronos instead of 1 and remove all classes that don’t benefit from alacrity (RIP thief, hammer DH, rev etc).

Will you be able to finish them with 1 after the nerf?

This sounds great, I can’t wait to see the rest of the balance patch.

morrolan.9608:

fishball.7204:

morrolan.9608:

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Boon sharing has never been a PvE/Raid problem, don’t talk about things you have no idea about.

Raids will still finish at the same speed now it just kills diversity since we’ll take 2 chronos instead of 1 and remove all classes that don’t benefit from alacrity (RIP thief, hammer DH, rev etc).

Will you be able to finish them with 1 after the nerf?

You will be able to finish them with 1, just like people have completed raids in greens. However, it will most likely not be optimal to just bring one. Additionally, most people always follow the meta, especially with harder content like raids.

Zenith.7301:

I hope you realize how self-defeating this stupid change is for druids.

You’re effectively going to pigeonhole them into healing power by decreasing baseline healing without giving the druid specialization any additions to make it viable in an offensive stat build as a DPS role.

What are these developers doing? They haven’t fixed what makes core ranger and druid dreadfully weak DPS builds, so they have to play a dps/healer hybrid, and with this change now rangers will be forced into healing power gear so they can’t even contribute much DPS at all.

You’re also going to effectively delete druids from open world as they can no longer solo or be self sufficient due to not being able to run dps gear without gutting their celestial avatar survivability/utility.

It won’t be nearly as bad as you describe it,but a healer with healer gear.
God forbid,this is unheard of.

I’d like to ask again – at what level of healing power do druids break even compared to current levels?
You should be able to answer that simple question imho, unless it’s a major nerf across the board and you don’t want to say that.

WvW balance patch kreygasm

Aenaos.8160:

Zenith.7301:

I hope you realize how self-defeating this stupid change is for druids.

You’re effectively going to pigeonhole them into healing power by decreasing baseline healing without giving the druid specialization any additions to make it viable in an offensive stat build as a DPS role.

What are these developers doing? They haven’t fixed what makes core ranger and druid dreadfully weak DPS builds, so they have to play a dps/healer hybrid, and with this change now rangers will be forced into healing power gear so they can’t even contribute much DPS at all.

You’re also going to effectively delete druids from open world as they can no longer solo or be self sufficient due to not being able to run dps gear without gutting their celestial avatar survivability/utility.

It won’t be nearly as bad as you describe it,but a healer with healer gear.
God forbid,this is unheard of.

Again though, the tradeoff is what do Druids get in return? If they just lose healing power, then that makes them weaker than they are not, which is not that strong. I can understand them wanting to make Druids use Healer gear if they want to be primary healers, but the Druid class also needs to be functional as a non-healer option, which means that the non-healer gear needs to do enough damage to make up for not being as good at healing.

Gaile Gray.6029:

…Druid as a primary healer..

First of all, why this game have “primary healers” now?

If Revenant’s ‘Natural Resonance’ gets it’s boon duration bonus reduced, will ‘Envoy of Sustenance’ get an increase? I ask because I’m incredibly selfish about the boon duration I get for myself. Screw the party. lol
’https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_of_Sustenance

Galile can u pls say something about a wvw leggy backpack?
Is this in planning?

Ohoni.6057:

Aenaos.8160:

Zenith.7301:

I hope you realize how self-defeating this stupid change is for druids.

You’re effectively going to pigeonhole them into healing power by decreasing baseline healing without giving the druid specialization any additions to make it viable in an offensive stat build as a DPS role.

What are these developers doing? They haven’t fixed what makes core ranger and druid dreadfully weak DPS builds, so they have to play a dps/healer hybrid, and with this change now rangers will be forced into healing power gear so they can’t even contribute much DPS at all.

You’re also going to effectively delete druids from open world as they can no longer solo or be self sufficient due to not being able to run dps gear without gutting their celestial avatar survivability/utility.

It won’t be nearly as bad as you describe it,but a healer with healer gear.
God forbid,this is unheard of.

Again though, the tradeoff is what do Druids get in return? If they just lose healing power, then that makes them weaker than they are not, which is not that strong. I can understand them wanting to make Druids use Healer gear if they want to be primary healers, but the Druid class also needs to be functional as a non-healer option, which means that the non-healer gear needs to do enough damage to make up for not being as good at healing.

This is a really good point that I’ve been thinking about since reading this. Just making healer builds weaker by requiring more Healing Power for the same effect isn’t going to meet the stated goal of “see(ing) that role as one of many choices in your attribute build.”

It is like the ranger nerf to shortbow to make longbow more appealing. Longbow didn’t become more appealing until it was buffed, and in the meantime neither was appealing and shortbow is still unappealing.

Revenant – didnt you buff it as it was under powered?
– Up and down like a dam yo yo, you wonder why people get annoyed… make things work correctly in the first place without rushing them. Revenant will be useless for raids, weak in PVE,
– when you announce a change, cant you add a rationale?

Great more out of touch developers not understanding what chrono (the hardest class to play by far) does for the game, just fantastic. You are about to knee cap the bulk of your community which will lead to overall dissatisfaction and less enjoyment all around.

crisisavatar.9247:

Great more out of touch developers not understanding what chrono (the hardest class to play by far) does for the game, just fantastic. You are about to knee cap the bulk of your community which will lead to overall dissatisfaction and less enjoyment all around.

are you arguing that mesmers make up a majority of the community? cuz if so i got news for you.

Wow glad I don’t own a Druid that I enjoy playing who has a full set of ascended gear qithout healing power stat.

Patch drops > forced to reroll all gear just to stay effective? That might hurt.

So the only meta build available for the Revenant it will not be so useful, so basically Guardian can do everything better than the Revenant now. Great, switching back to guard.

Anyway, ArenaNet at GW2 launch
“Our professions aren’t dedicated healers, DPS, or tanks because frankly, we built a combat system that just doesn’t allow it.”

ArenaNet after 4 years
We made new content that it’s too hard, so we need a healer, so we made the holy trinity.

1st Interestingly enough I missed1 thing in all cries for the effects of nerfed Signet of Inspiration (SoI). with a possible dual chrono:

So: The tank changes and will be full commanders (~97% boon duration with food and sig of concentration), and then the second? (S)he cannot run the same build…. because the TOUGHNESS WOUD BE THE SAME!

So you’ll lose some boon duration to replace a trinket (or use 1 minstrel) otherwise you could bring 1 commander and one partial commander and a revenant…. but you’ll lose a dps slot….

in all cases it’s not going to be a real problem if rev’s duartion get’s nerfed from 50 to 40 or even 33, but it will no longer return anywhere (in raids) when its 25 or less, it would be over. also these negative sentiments will desttroy the rev place in raids…… at least for a while while ppl try to figure out what now.

2nd It’s unfortunate duration will be nerfed on SoI but I can imagine the consequences in WvW, unfortunately enough WvW allways used PvE mechanics opposed to PvP where everything should be fair game and balanced;

And maybe WvW, being a MultiPvP SHOULD JUST SWAP TO PVP MECHANICS,

So this will mean: refunding the infusions, going back to Exotics or thee PvP build panel unlocking all removed stat options for WvW only and recreate the state this gamemode was originally build for. Incorporating the same strict mechanics and balance wish as found in normal PvP. Not in WvW: no asncededs, no infusions, no misuse of foods…. : Balance attained.

Cause again for the sake for balance of a PvP mode PvE is getting nerfed.

So maybe a split is in order here. A full split of all 3 game modes. Cause balance is different in all 3 game modes. And balance cannot be made until this is understood.

Other POSIBLE SOLUTION for SoI: Buff boonstrips/corruption/smites. make these corruption options corrupt 50% more boons, with comparable durations. so if a zerg has a HUGE boonload just insta corrup everything with a couple of wells. or just improve the amount of targets on said corrupts. make them Aoe or convert on 10 targets respectively….. could work really well for necro scepter auto, aoe 180 range corrupt 3 targets. it would really purify the meta by corrupting it. (<- I like that)

This would also buff necro if you were to destroy Epidemic when on a nerfing spree anyhow. to correct for PvE: just implement more boons in the game for enemies.

I think this would would be 2 good things to consider.

Oh and as for Druid, I do not care. Druid is only there for GotL so as BUFFER not to be healer.

GotL =for goodcomps, Healing = badcomps, Druid as a Healer is overrated. And it needed to be buffed to prove my point (MAGI HEALERS ARE NORMAL! That’s max healing power anyways, and STILL THEY SUCKED!) This clearly shows how bad it was. (And how badcomps need to be buffed to achieve priviously set goals)

This also means berserker druids will be STAY full buffers now, again not at a loss of DPS… Heals can be done easily by considering a guardian spreading virtue of resolve or a fire/water/tempest. (staff fire water tempest will be able to apply Soothing mists, heal on swap and more… at a very low cost to DPS if ppl do not go down. aalso water will heal around the target instead of just only the line beam….)

Oh and as a late and probably useless afterthought, Revenant

I use my revenant for Mule duty anyways, so I do not give a **** if it is nerfed to death. My main problem with revenant will be NO ranged weapon for condition, and no underwater skills with 3 of 5 legends leaving the proffession broke and ill equipped since launch of HoT
No amount of tinkering can repair the mess it is, untill base weaponry AND legends are fixed to allow it to be a fullfledged character instead of the beta proffesion it is now. As such I do not care if it is removed from the game altogether as an alternative option..

TL; DR
1 Mirror comp has basic flaw, 2 tanks will not work. (remplace 1 commander trinket by mistrel np)
2 PvE, PvP and WvW balance should have own balance. Yes old remakr, about 4 yrs…
3 Soi Nerf could be achieved by more boonstripping/corrupting, buffing condi necro, condi’s in WvW are useless ayways unl;ess 1 vs1 or few vs few.
4 LoL at more healing based upon stats for Druid CA, druids are there for buffs not for healing for healing ele’s were better. Guess somone read some old posts with balance suggestions for heals and no is going to try out healing rebalancing ~ 2 years afterthe questions and suggestions were placed.
5 Don’t care about broken Revenant anyways, still no underwater legends ranged condi weapon and other fail oversights.

BeaT.3541:

Anyway, ArenaNet at GW2 launch
“Our professions aren’t dedicated healers, DPS, or tanks because frankly, we built a combat system that just doesn’t allow it.”

ArenaNet after 4 years
We made new content that it’s too hard, so we need a healer, so we made the holy trinity.

As if the pre-HoT system wasn’t absolutely primitive. Addition of some healing (tanking still does not exist for most of PvE) was a good call.

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to say that I just got to the point that I could say I can clear most raid bosses as a Mesmer and I was pretty hyped about it and had great fun. Seeing this post now is making me feel pretty diminished in these regards. I sincerely hope they’re laughing in their offices knowing they’re going to split skill mechanics into the three game types, but I doubt that this time.
I feel like this update could hurt the PvE game type by a fair amount, especially raids. It’s going to make it harder for groups of random players to keep up boons and in general harder to complete bosses. People will become frustrated and leave it behind, which imo is not what everyone is looking for.
Also, I don’t get the point in increasing mesmer’s personal damage as commander’s gear will probably necessary to wear.

I just hope they have a great solution in their lockers. I think they did a great job with the last updates, everything was reasonable. For wvw it’s totally reasonable too, but in PvE it’s not going to be enjoyable. And I would rather not get pushed into playing something different.