Guild Wars 2

sophiewhite.3149:

if 1 change to 1 skill can remove the class from raids. its not op. sorry.if you wanna talk pvp? then sure ill agree. wvw? hell yes. pve? gtfo

If nerfing facet of nature is enough to push Rev out of Raids then it means 2 things:
1) It’s completely overpowered and needs to be reduced in strength if teams are soooo worthless without it
2) Revs need to get other buffs to make them more wanted and competitive, something the Rev community should’ve been asking in the first place. I don’t understand how Revs are happy being boon duration bots for their friendly chrono nearby and call it “Exciting”.

A well deserved nerf but Revs would also need some serious buffs. The main problem with that is Revs are really powerful in PVP, if they buff their DPS for example, they might become competitive in PVE, but it will have some serious consequences in PVP, it’s the same reason why they can’t buff Scrapper in PVE. Unless they do some skill splitting between PVE and PVP buffing Revs (and Scrappers) is not easy.

Another reason not to play GW much. Elementalist no love, Engineers no love, nerf to team dynamics, I’d say awesome job but it’s not. Just another team of developers that thinks it knows more about what we want and need, then the players. FFXIV has a new expansion coming guess I’ll be checking it out.

To those saying that synergy between to classes means it’s broken. You should put down the pipe your smoking and quit playing. From the start this game has been about team dynamics… that’s why there is blast finishers etc etc.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Thanks for the laugh. If you honestly think that your ideas shaped elite specs…

I don’t “think” they ran with my blueprint. I know.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/first

You might start around page 38, to speed things along.

In any event I was speaking chiefly to the Revenant changes. The Druid changes are just another example of them doing what many people have suggested: reduce base values and increase stat contribution so that IF you want to be a strong healer you need to gear for it, and if you gear for it, it should be proportionately more rewarding while you’re losing capability in other areas.

The changes to the druid don’t take them out of play, it just forces harder choices, and harder choices are a good thing.

Can we have a balance preview with all the changed traits and skills?
I guess arenanet stopped doing that because of the quality of the feedback(“oh thanks for killing rev, I’m going back to WoW” and such) but there is a lot of good feedback out there they just need to be filtered somehow.

maddoctor.2738:

If nerfing facet of nature is enough to push Rev out of Raids then it means 2 things:
1) It’s completely overpowered and needs to be reduced in strength if teams are soooo worthless without it
2) Revs need to get other buffs to make them more wanted and competitive, something the Rev community should’ve been asking in the first place. I don’t understand how Revs are happy being boon duration bots for their friendly chrono nearby and call it “Exciting”.

A well deserved nerf but Revs would also need some serious buffs. The main problem with that is Revs are really powerful in PVP, if they buff their DPS for example, they might become competitive in PVE, but it will have some serious consequences in PVP, it’s the same reason why they can’t buff Scrapper in PVE. Unless they do some skill splitting between PVE and PVP buffing Revs (and Scrappers) is not easy.

Your #2 is basically spot on. #1 isn’t the case as teams already can run without Rev since Chronos can do 100% by themselves without the 50% from Rev. The F2 on Rev currently just barely pushes it into “ok good enough” to take along.

Most of us that played Rev before they nerfed the kitten out of it knew that they would be nothing more than F2/boon bots once the DPS nerf hit. Some of us complained about it but since it was OP in PvP most people felt the nerfs were justified while it got shoehorned into a boring role in PvE/raids.

So yes Rev and Scrapper need some serious buffs to be useful enough to take along in a 10 man comp for raids but also yes they are so strong in PvP there’s no room for buffing without breaking PvP “balance”.

WTB SKILL SPLIT

Zephyra.4709:

This. So much this. 100% agreed here in terms of SPLIT THE BALANCE BETWEEN GAME MODES for the love of all that is holy.

Indeed, that balance split is absolutely necessary (and has been for ages). I’m tired of WvW- or PvP-related stuff kittening up PvE balance, just as other people will feel the other way.

Nike.2631:

I don’t “think” they ran with my blueprint. I know.

Oh Nike!!! If so can you PLEASE put in a good word for Engi’s!!???

I agree with others here, they should definitely Split the balance between the game modes

maddoctor.2738:

sophiewhite.3149:

if 1 change to 1 skill can remove the class from raids. its not op. sorry.if you wanna talk pvp? then sure ill agree. wvw? hell yes. pve? gtfo

If nerfing facet of nature is enough to push Rev out of Raids then it means 2 things:
1) It’s completely overpowered and needs to be reduced in strength if teams are soooo worthless without it
2) Revs need to get other buffs to make them more wanted and competitive, something the Rev community should’ve been asking in the first place. I don’t understand how Revs are happy being boon duration bots for their friendly chrono nearby and call it “Exciting”.

A well deserved nerf but Revs would also need some serious buffs. The main problem with that is Revs are really powerful in PVP, if they buff their DPS for example, they might become competitive in PVE, but it will have some serious consequences in PVP, it’s the same reason why they can’t buff Scrapper in PVE. Unless they do some skill splitting between PVE and PVP buffing Revs (and Scrappers) is not easy.

It’s the change to SoI that pushes rev out of the meta, not even their own nerfs. What support can currently easily be replaced with a second chrono to provide 100% quickness? Rev. It has only minor DPS buffs, and fury is easily applied through other sources. It’s def not gonna be the warrior with might stacking, banners and EA. Nor the druid with spotter, spirits, fury, healing, glyph of empowerment and grace of the land.

I’m quite sure even if the boon duration would get gutted that rev would’ve kept a spot if a single chrono could keep up quickness. It’s still an extremely easy class to stack fury with, with great CC and assassins presence. But yeah, if it comes down to quickness one class has to go…

Nike.2631:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Thanks for the laugh. If you honestly think that your ideas shaped elite specs…

I don’t “think” they ran with my blueprint. I know.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/first

You might start around page 38, to speed things along.

In any event I was speaking chiefly to the Revenant changes. The Druid changes are just another example of them doing what many people have suggested: reduce base values and increase stat contribution so that IF you want to be a strong healer you need to gear for it, and if you gear for it, it should be proportionately more rewarding while you’re losing capability in other areas.

The changes to the druid don’t take them out of play, it just forces harder choices, and harder choices are a good thing.

Nerfing Base Heal and Buffing Scaling does increase you need to use appropriate healing gear to achieve more effective heals, but it does not bridge the same gaps that really cement druid as the core healer for raid groups. Revenant and Tempest healers have other forms of utility, but nothing that matches the effectiveness of Grace of the Land.

If you want to make the other Healer’s more readily accepted then change GotL to something that impacts damage way less than it does.

If Grace of the Land instead stated “Your healing effectiveness on the target is increased by X% per stack” It would reward you for keeping your stacks active on targets by making your heals better and remove the dependency on Druids as Healers by not giving them basically free damage utility for healing.

Crippling the base heals makes the niche use of Direct Damage and Condition based druids less likely to function in a group and short of them actually acknowledging that base Ranger needs a buff in PvE there probably will not be builds that replace them moving forward.

Revenant is an amalgamation of abilities and options that makes it an extremely powerful mixed class, but the problem with that is not that its not strong as a class, rather that the things it is capable of collectively are found in more focused strengths from other classes. A Revenant does not offer group wide might stacking as effectively as a Warrior. The range of boons they offer is very adjustable and powerful, but these are all boons that are readily found on other classes that can cover a team.

A Revenant does not have damage to match the current state of Elementalists, Guardians, and Thieves, even though thieves are about to join in that same exodus.

Unless the Revenant sees severe parallel change that gives them enough of a focus in another area they will not compete for the damage slot of other classes, because Chronomancer’s are now doubly required.

The ultimate issue is that Chronomancers are seeing a dramatic change to SOI, not that the Revenant is a bad class.

Stop complaining that this class is op, or the other is op and learn to play, dragonhunter is not impossible to kill, besides some here who comment should be pve players who come to play pvp and can not kill any class, I play core ranger and even the most difficult classes to kill for me that is berserk, scrapper and daredevil are not impossible to kill.

Druids to focus a high damage it can not heal enough even with CA.

Balancing for pve? This is joke? Pve is the easiest thing to play with any build, WvW and PvP balancing serves both to one as to the other.

The only thing you need is ArenaNet adjust each class, such as the rangers need now only improvement in pets and is good too.

The now how is game became more balanced than the other times.

All I want is for the game to be fun again. So many things have been unjustifiably nerfed by stealth and no longer work well.

2 example of things that ruined gameplay and wont get fixed:
- The possibility to use Ride the Lightning in mid air. Probably was the coolest thing you could do as an elementalist when attacking from above.

- The removal of line-casting to anticipate where the Meteor of Meteorshower would fall, and the addition of huge red circle. That nerf just destroyed the best elementalist skill: Anet didn’t even bother to buff the speed of the skill or the amount of meteors, or add knockdown like in GW1. Now everyone has 2 seconds to jump out of the circle or pop up their invul in WvW before they get striked, and even if they don’t the meteors are all scattered and rarely hit a target.

So, you could extend that list to dozens of little nerfs that made the elementalist class just NOT FUN to play anymore.

So, if I have only one hope for this balance patch and if you ever want to see me reinstall this game and buy gems again, it is that this new balance patch is a gameplay-focused patch (real changes to the skills to make them more “cool” to use, and not just a list of number changes.

I kind of laughed when I saw Smiter’s Boon being mentioned in this topic. I hope it doesn’t come to that. :o

One balance I would like is for ranger pets to actually be able to hit consistently instead of running around a nipping at the enemy’s heals missing most of the time. Ranger damage is artificially lower because our pet is supposed to make up for it. NOT.

Honestly this can go either way.
It so vague it can be total crap or pretty good.

from what was given this is extremely vague with very little information and right now since this is so vague the changes that they want to do can go either way, the changes can be really good or end up being total crap

RyuDragnier.9476:

fishball.7204:

DutchRiders.2871:

I disagree with the way anet goes about it, but the personal dps/healing and support a druid brings is absoluty ridiculous.

Have you ever played druid or looked at the numbers? Druid DPS is amongst the LOWEST of all classes.

http://www.qtfy.enjin.com/dps

In fact, they are so low that most groups barely bother doing anything but Magi druids because the DPS gain is so minimal and is still trash even if you go full condi or zerk.

They won’t buff Ranger’s DPS because of PvP, the one mode that Rangers excel in the most. Most of the Ranger nerfs were caused by that mode, so don’t ever expect a Ranger buff until they finally start separating things for modes.

Welcome to the mesmer life

So are we still trying to do half measures instead of just separating the modes instead of screwing over one game mode to fix problems in another? And end up doing nothing as a result? If revs and mesmer boon share is too good in WvW, then just nerf it in WvW. No?

Why even bother?

I still think not all the fault is on part of Anet. YES, they should split WvW, PVP and PVE balance changes but darn it, is it really necessary to be Meta out of PVP? Why does people rages and smashes their keyboards whenever a non meta player enters raids or fracs if it’s been proven that even casuals can beat it in non meta builds? Are we that much of slaves that even within our minds we most be following something to say “I’m doing it right”?

Revaenant and Mesmers are incredibly fun classes, that some people likes to lock them into only one use just shows how users are the ones who likee to screw up in order to become “competitive” on a co-op mode.

Necro will suffer again, i can feel

Ok a few things i do agree that they should separate wvw, pve and pvp modes as far as skills but thats not the parent problem. Your seeing a lot of pve raiders complaining about the nerf to boonshare but the problem lies in wvw where zergs that are literally dripping in full stacks of boons fighting another blob also dripping in boons for more that 10+ minutes with no results at all, thats no fun for anyone.

The problem lies in the players that find a niche in the game that can be tweaked and made into a overpowered meta that ends up dominating the game as a whole. This becomes more and more popular until everyone’s running it even if they hate the idea, build or class they are on because if they don’t they wont achieve anything. People leave because of this and ANET is forced to change the effected skills.

This leads to the people that started the trend leaving the game after the good players that were stuck in the middle leaving in frustration for good, leaving the game in a worse state than before the meta started. Thats the problem and its simply a inevitable side effect of how anet made the game without any holy trinity. Despite this sounding like im blaming anet im not, i am pointing at the people that choose to use and abuse these little glitch cheese builds/metas until they become cancerous.

I’ll say this with regards to the heal rework: if they make druids mandatory for everything in PvE, that’s it for me. I started playing this MMO because it was different from all the others and because it gave me lots of options of how much adherent I wanted to be to a meta. But having to run around with a group for anything bigger than a wolf is going to get REALLY boring really fast.

OriOri.8724:

RyuDragnier.9476:

fishball.7204:

DutchRiders.2871:

I disagree with the way anet goes about it, but the personal dps/healing and support a druid brings is absoluty ridiculous.

Have you ever played druid or looked at the numbers? Druid DPS is amongst the LOWEST of all classes.

http://www.qtfy.enjin.com/dps

In fact, they are so low that most groups barely bother doing anything but Magi druids because the DPS gain is so minimal and is still trash even if you go full condi or zerk.

They won’t buff Ranger’s DPS because of PvP, the one mode that Rangers excel in the most. Most of the Ranger nerfs were caused by that mode, so don’t ever expect a Ranger buff until they finally start separating things for modes.

Welcome to the mesmer life

And the Thief, and the Engi, and the Rev, etc etc. It’s things like this that should encourage them to separate game modes, that way PvE can get buffs and PvP can continue being how it is.

As long as they dont nerf Durability runes then Im good xD

Hapmuhr.2781:

I’ll say this with regards to the heal rework: if they make druids mandatory for everything in PvE, that’s it for me. I started playing this MMO because it was different from all the others and because it gave me lots of options of how much adherent I wanted to be to a meta. But having to run around with a group for anything bigger than a wolf is going to get REALLY boring really fast.

Before Druids came along, I would fight fifteen wolves, waist deep in the snow, during a blizzard, with a dead pet, wearing no armor, and I was blindfolded, just to make it fair. When these balance changes hit, I will literally die if one sneezes in my direction!

Alec B.8905:

what anet is trying to do is force people to build for what they are for, Druid was a prime example because if you want to be the healer you have to BUILD for healing. you shouldn’t be able to put out the same dmg/condi as other players and still heal. it doesn’t make sense, this is why they are trying to push for build what you want to do.

It’s not the same dude.

Zerk Druid is doing like 1/2 or less of healing compare to Magi Druid, while still doing the 2nd lowest dps among all class.

By forcing Hybrid Druid into Magi/Zealot Druid, Druid still heal great, but now it’d make their damage even more negligible.

Magi Druid already heal more than enough, and is desired by most of the raid group. There’s no need for a buff for Magi Druid while making Zerk Druid even more unviable.

Well durability runes are part of the problem so expect some rework of those, as far as the healing druid it sounds like they are making so if you want to have all that healing you’ll have to have healing gear as well.

Woah hold the phone here, why was there no mention of a shatterstone buff, skills team? No wonder people are losing their minds!!!

I really hope they split the balancing for pve, pvp, and wvw. i still remember they nerfed longbow DH and traps back then because of wvw, still a little bit upset about it, anyway why the devs so silent about this?

So when does the balance patch coming out?

One more time pvp tears messed up pve balance.
All we need is to split balance and nothing else.
From time to time every single class get nerfed because someone cannot faceroll a class in a pvp match.
Just split up those changes or we will end up playing nothing(or keeping our attention to nothing at all).
Personally i m really tired of swapping classes in every single balance patch, and not for being top tier, but just to stay inside meta….

I have been eagerly awaiting this balance patch hoping it stops a growing and out of control problem in wvw. And while I have no sympathy for those who are whining about the possibility of not being able to permanently maintain an overpowered boon like quickness, because god forbid your raids take a minute longer right. It does once again shed light on a problem with anet not splitting skill balance between game modes.

I can understand that it can be difficult to do but lets be honest here, this is not GW1 where there was literally no limit to build diversity. A warrior could wield a staff and use monk skills, and an elementalist could wield a greatsword and use warrior skills. GW2 does not have that issue, most of the population basically runs similar builds, because quite frankly most options we have are complete garbage. Most runes, sigils, and many traits and skills are completely useless and have no use anywhere. This basically limits build diversity throughout game modes.

Anet needs to finally take the steps to implement proper separate skill balancing across game modes, because you simply cannot balance 3 game modes around 1. The 3 modes are completely different, and therefore need to be balanced separately.

X T D.6458:

And while I have no sympathy for those who are whining about the possibility of not being able to permanently maintain an overpowered boon like quickness, because god forbid your raids take a minute longer right.

This is again missing the point tho. No, taking 1min extra won’t be an issue, it won’t even happen. It just forces ppl to run another chrono effectively having 3 classes occupying 6 slots and the extra alacrity benefits some classes far more than others.

Now you could absolutely say just play what you want since raid teams generally have a couple min to spare on the enrage timer but let’s be real here, will that really happen outside of guild teams that know each other well and don’t mind handicapping themselves?

I hope for once that they nerf only the Druid part of the Ranger instead of nerfing core spec skills just because of some Druid build was broken. The Ranger has become even more useless ever since HoT got released. I just plainly refuse to spec a Druid because of lore reasons.

And to all those people who are sad their Revenant is going to get nerfed and now don’t have a spot in Raid parties anymore welcome to my world where there have never been any Raid builds for Rangers ever.

Griever.7480:

Of course no mention of elementalists, go to hell.

I feel your pain, I moved on however so I can’t be disappointed. I’m just curious to see if Anet can win me back as a player.

I haven’t bought gems in over a year and I used to do so at least twice a month. You can do the math. And also because I felt HoT was just half an expansion for the unreasonably high price tag I won’t ever buy another expansion. I think the best course of action is to make companies understand your dissatisfaction with your wallet.

Xillllix.3485:

Griever.7480:

Of course no mention of elementalists, go to hell.

I feel your pain, I moved on however so I can’t be disappointed. I’m just curious to see if Anet can win me back as a player.

I haven’t bought gems in over a year and I used to do so at least twice a month. You can do the math. And also because I felt HoT was just half an expansion for the unreasonably high price tag I won’t ever buy another expansion. I think the best course of action is to make companies understand your dissatisfaction with your wallet.

You know, if HoT was absolutely terrible, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the next expansion will be. You’re only punishing yourself if you miss out on better content that follows (and in my opinion, LW S3 looks awfully promising so far).

You don’t wanna buy gems? I’m not even going to try to convince you. But I have yet to see an MMO that didn’t have high points and low points, and I do hope that if you continue to post in these forums you’ll come around.

gryph.8734:

Xillllix.3485:

Griever.7480:

Of course no mention of elementalists, go to hell.

I feel your pain, I moved on however so I can’t be disappointed. I’m just curious to see if Anet can win me back as a player.

I haven’t bought gems in over a year and I used to do so at least twice a month. You can do the math. And also because I felt HoT was just half an expansion for the unreasonably high price tag I won’t ever buy another expansion. I think the best course of action is to make companies understand your dissatisfaction with your wallet.

You know, if HoT was absolutely terrible, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the next expansion will be. You’re only punishing yourself if you miss out on better content that follows (and in my opinion, LW S3 looks awfully promising so far).

You don’t wanna buy gems? I’m not even going to try to convince you. But I have yet to see an MMO that didn’t have high points and low points, and I do hope that if you continue to post in these forums you’ll come around.

I know, maybe the next expansion will be amazing. If it is and Anet redeem themselves I will buy it. I won’t naively pre-order it this time however, and I’ll wait until I receive the feedback and reviews of everyone I know.

Xillllix.3485:

…maybe the next expansion will be amazing. If it is and Anet redeem themselves I will buy it. I won’t naively pre-order it this time however, and I’ll wait until I receive the feedback and reviews of everyone I know.

I can honestly say that of the several MMO’s I have played over the years, I have never actually preordered, nor do I get the “deluxe” versions with all the extra goodies. I’m a pretty big believer in functional pragmatism, you might say. Just give me a game that I can play. I did find HoT disappointing in the extreme, but I’m ready to move on and I’m pretty confident that I will buy a new expansion when it comes out. After all, though the HoT maps were severely lacking, there was still plenty of new content that I did (and continue to) embrace that came along with them.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Why are people crying at druid nerf? Why are you allowed to heal for lots but are also able to ware either berserker or viper gear at the same time. I can’t think of any other class that can get away with having strong healing AND high dmg out put. Reminds me of gw1 a smiters boon.

Because Berzerker/Viper gear on Ranger is about as effective as Cleric/Shaman gear on any other class in the game.

Sartharina.3542:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Why are people crying at druid nerf? Why are you allowed to heal for lots but are also able to ware either berserker or viper gear at the same time. I can’t think of any other class that can get away with having strong healing AND high dmg out put. Reminds me of gw1 a smiters boon.

Because Berzerker gear on Ranger is about as effective as Cleric/Shaman gear on any other class in the game.

Fixed it for you.

Sartharina.3542:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Why are people crying at druid nerf? Why are you allowed to heal for lots but are also able to ware either berserker or viper gear at the same time. I can’t think of any other class that can get away with having strong healing AND high dmg out put. Reminds me of gw1 a smiters boon.

Because Berzerker/Viper gear on Ranger is about as effective as Cleric/Shaman gear on any other class in the game.

Viper Ranger (non Druid) is at the moment the best condition dps build, similar in dps with condition engineer but the engineer rotation is a lot more complicated to pull off.

maddoctor.2738:

Sartharina.3542:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Why are people crying at druid nerf? Why are you allowed to heal for lots but are also able to ware either berserker or viper gear at the same time. I can’t think of any other class that can get away with having strong healing AND high dmg out put. Reminds me of gw1 a smiters boon.

Because Berzerker/Viper gear on Ranger is about as effective as Cleric/Shaman gear on any other class in the game.

Viper Ranger (non Druid) is at the moment the best condition dps build, similar in dps with condition engineer but the engineer rotation is a lot more complicated to pull off.

You have to consider range and enemies mobility..

Basically you need to be at point-blank range and enemy who’s big and not moving to do that much condition damage.

On the other hand, necro can just chill in the back and do whatever mechanic necessary while their jagged friends do 40+ ticks of bleed damage for them, while spreading them with epidemic lolz…

Don’t bother rolling a cond ranger in raid or in any other contents. Just go necro.

Aomine.5012:

Don’t bother rolling a cond ranger in raid or in any other contents. Just go necro.

Well obviously because Necromancers have Epidemic. If one skill (Epidemic) pushes all other condition builds outside of the meta then maybe it’s one more thing they need to look at.

maddoctor.2738:

Viper Ranger (non Druid) is at the moment the best condition dps build, similar in dps

Yes. non druid. The builds druid hybrids were using were never even close to those numbers.

maddoctor.2738:

Aomine.5012:

Don’t bother rolling a cond ranger in raid or in any other contents. Just go necro.

Well obviously because Necromancers have Epidemic. If one skill (Epidemic) pushes all other condition builds outside of the meta then maybe it’s one more thing they need to look at.

Yeah, one of the strongest classes in the game atm in almost every game-mode (except pvp maybe) is left untouched at all while Anet keep destroying the gimmick classes that rely on gimmick in order to survive.

Typical Anet’s way of balance.

Beside, Zerk druid in raid is only for groups that want to push their limit with the least amount of people clearing raid, which is absolute minority. Why you want to make zerk/viper druid useless in every other game mode when in raid people already run dedicated healing gears to begin with and it’s perfectly viable?

I bet these nerfs are intended for wvw, but they’re too lazy to separate wvw skill balance from PVE.

Substance E.4852:

Jski.6180:

Amaya.1483:

If the most noticeable changes are made to Druid healing and Mes/Rev Boon duration…. there is absolutely no hope for you guys left. /gquit

Druid ARE a healing class the fact that ppl made them into high in dps classes that can still heal well (mostly self heal) is a problem that needs to be fixed.

So we nerf the crap out of heals? That’s supposed to make things better? Ive got some bad news for you if you think a full heal spec is going to be even more powerful after this update. Their aim is to gut base healing and boost stat effects such that you now need to spec full healing to meet base functionality.

All this change does is further solidify the Druid as a pseudo 10th class, rather than a spec that builds upon the base class, now with it’s own special armor set that’s needed for it to even work as advertised.

I think the ideal is to nerf the base healing but make healing power more effective so druids healing is not as strong with out healing power but is much more viable as a healing class over all. They did the same thing with tempest auras.

Jski.6180:

Substance E.4852:

Jski.6180:

Amaya.1483:

If the most noticeable changes are made to Druid healing and Mes/Rev Boon duration…. there is absolutely no hope for you guys left. /gquit

Druid ARE a healing class the fact that ppl made them into high in dps classes that can still heal well (mostly self heal) is a problem that needs to be fixed.

So we nerf the crap out of heals? That’s supposed to make things better? Ive got some bad news for you if you think a full heal spec is going to be even more powerful after this update. Their aim is to gut base healing and boost stat effects such that you now need to spec full healing to meet base functionality.

All this change does is further solidify the Druid as a pseudo 10th class, rather than a spec that builds upon the base class, now with it’s own special armor set that’s needed for it to even work as advertised.

I think the ideal is to nerf the base healing but make healing power more effective so druids healing is not as strong with out healing power but is much more viable as a healing class over all. They did the same thing with tempest auras.

Which is actually a really sound idea, really enforces the specialization aspect of elite specializations. Unfortunately, such changes would be much better received if we had more than 1 elite spec out right now and the overall design would be more apparent. But I do like that ANet is trying to head in this direction of actual specializations and away from jack of all trades.

are these changes only for pve and wvw or is pvp affected too ?

ArchonWing.9480:

So are we still trying to do half measures instead of just separating the modes instead of screwing over one game mode to fix problems in another? And end up doing nothing as a result? If revs and mesmer boon share is too good in WvW, then just nerf it in WvW. No?

Why even bother?

Because having a split is a major reason why we see imbalance.

sPvP is already balanced differently than WvW and PvE because the sheer amount of stats and stat diversity available are simply less than PvE and WvW. What doesn’t work in one format works wonderfully in another.

There doesn’t need to be a split. ANet would just be overwhelmed with things to adjust (as if they aren’t already), especially as more elite specs are released. They need to actually normalize the formats better. PvE balance seriously doesn’t matter so long as the content can be completed. All this complaining about the PvE meta doesn’t mean crap. You will find a group doing literally anything playing on literally anything. You might not be optimal, but if you beat the content on a sub-optimal build, it doesn’t actually matter. There will always be a mathematically-superior meta in PvE and it will never change until professions are nerfed or buffed, because encounters don’t change and can be broken down into literal formulas. So long as can group can complete the content, it shouldn’t matter. PvP areas, not so much, which is where the precedent of good design really matters.

And that’s the other major reason why we see vast differences between formats: the actual skills and mechanics themselves are often terribly-designed or implemented. ANet has a staggering number of reworks to do, because some things like certain weapons, traits, etc., will never actually be good regardless what they do, until totally scrapped and re-worked. If balance is split up and everything “seems” good, it just makes it a much more difficult knot to try and untangle unless the skills and mechanics themselves change between formats. I don’t know about you, but I’d like to rest assured that my weapons skills are the same when moving between PvE/sPvP/WvW. That’s just not possible if they take the split balance approach without just adding objectively more work; if they’re going to re-design something, doing so in ways that won’t break any given format is easier than trying to manage re-designing the same mechanic into three different ones between the formats, which may propagate more balance work and demand the same process over and over.

The absolute best thing they could possibly do right now is put PvE stat-selection options/values (aside from food) into sPvP, remove Durability and Perplexity runes altogether, and then work on re-designing terribly-designed mechanics to function between formats.

DeceiverX.8361:

ArchonWing.9480:

So are we still trying to do half measures instead of just separating the modes instead of screwing over one game mode to fix problems in another? And end up doing nothing as a result? If revs and mesmer boon share is too good in WvW, then just nerf it in WvW. No?

Why even bother?

Because having a split is a major reason why we see imbalance.

sPvP is already balanced differently than WvW and PvE because the sheer amount of stats and stat diversity available are simply less than PvE and WvW. What doesn’t work in one format works wonderfully in another.

There doesn’t need to be a split. ANet would just be overwhelmed with things to adjust (as if they aren’t already), especially as more elite specs are released. They need to actually normalize the formats better. PvE balance seriously doesn’t matter so long as the content can be completed. All this complaining about the PvE meta doesn’t mean crap. You will find a group doing literally anything playing on literally anything. You might not be optimal, but if you beat the content on a sub-optimal build, it doesn’t actually matter. There will always be a mathematically-superior meta in PvE and it will never change until professions are nerfed or buffed, because encounters don’t change and can be broken down into literal formulas. So long as can group can complete the content, it shouldn’t matter. PvP areas, not so much, which is where the precedent of good design really matters.

And that’s the other major reason why we see vast differences between formats: the actual skills and mechanics themselves are often terribly-designed or implemented. ANet has a staggering number of reworks to do, because some things like certain weapons, traits, etc., will never actually be good regardless what they do, until totally scrapped and re-worked. If balance is split up and everything “seems” good, it just makes it a much more difficult knot to try and untangle unless the skills and mechanics themselves change between formats. I don’t know about you, but I’d like to rest assured that my weapons skills are the same when moving between PvE/sPvP/WvW. That’s just not possible if they take the split balance approach without just adding objectively more work; if they’re going to re-design something, doing so in ways that won’t break any given format is easier than trying to manage re-designing the same mechanic into three different ones between the formats, which may propagate more balance work and demand the same process over and over.

The absolute best thing they could possibly do right now is put PvE stat-selection options/values (aside from food) into sPvP, remove Durability and Perplexity runes altogether, and then work on re-designing terribly-designed mechanics to function between formats.

PvE balance means a lot because if you faceroll everything without issues people will get bored really fast = playerbase drops a lot
If it’s too difficult then no one’s gonna do it either = playerbase drops a lot
If classes feel like kitten, class diversity is going to be lower and those who enjoyed their main class will drop off etc.

You can’t normalize PvE, WvW and PvP. They’re completely different formats by default, the kitten do you want to normalize there? Splits are the one thing that actually makes the balance better by giving the devs more control. I’d rather get a pop up saying “some skills work differently in each game mode” when entering WvW/PvP for the first time. Not everything has to be split, but if certain effects are completely overpowered in one aspect of the game while being completely fine in the other two, why gut the skill in all three game modes instead of making it more balanced in the one where it’s causing problems? Obviously splits aren’t the to-go solution for everything and they definitely should not split everything just because they can, but saying that splits are the worst thing they could do and that the balance of certain gamemodes doesn’t matter is ignorant to say the least. Yes it’s going to be more work to handle split skills, but the people at the balance team are getting paid for this and I’m convinced they can handle it, choosing wisely when to split and when not to, seeing it as a strong tool they shouldn’t be afraid of to use (which seemingly they are, and this is a bad thing)