Guild Wars 2

ipan.4356:

Nobody likes the company policy.

Yes, but a policy is needed. There are many legal reasons as to why there needs to be one.

ColinJohanson.2394:

snip

That’s an interesting idea. For the recent discussion on communication, I don’t know if the issue is truly one of not hearing from you or a feeling of not being heard. For not being heard, one of the issues I’ve noticed as a frequent forum poster is that after we express something on the forums, it’s quickly gone. This is do to the incredible velocity of new threads. Bumping and +1’ing can’t keep a topic on page 1 for long. The only thread that has had legs is the epic, “No Hobo sacks” thread in the Engi forums.

Maybe if there was some form of a user generated lists we could vote on by +1’ing? Like a stickied top 100 list, in horizontal bar graph fashion, per forum topic? A voting list that has a suggestion box with a constraint on the maximum number of characters to say for example 75. This would ensure brief and concise topics. Then simply a submit button beside the suggestion text field. Then a +1 button beside each row, with one suggestion per row.

A user generated list like this would be quick and easy for us, the players, to check and see if our issues have already been expressed. Then for you, the developers, you wouldn’t have to read pages and pages worth of text. Also, by not having direct Developer input, it would beholden Anet to anything on it. Which I feel is important because players have been using what developers say to club each other over the head in the forums recently. As much as we like socializing and interacting with all of you, there should be boundaries. Especially when I like to be *surprise by what you are doing with the game!

*note: being surprised does not include balance changes.

tldr: A stickied suggestion box with voting. Like Twitter for these long winded forum post like mine

nexxe.7081:

ipan.4356:

Nobody likes this company policy.

Yes, but a policy is needed. There are many legal reasons as to why there needs to be one.

I made the original statement somewhat closer to the posters intention I’d say. Just because a policy is needed doesn’t mean it needs to be a stifling one.

An Idea for Colin,

Would it not be better to create something called “Dev highlights” (as a forum/ sub-forum) that simply showed what the Dev team has paid attention to? Dev’s would highlight whatever interested them by the community and would work like Dev Tracker. (Showing what the team highlighted like showing what Dev’s said in dev tracker)

Personally i check Dev Tracker every day to see what their up to, and i would check Dev highlights if it existed. If Dev highlights was a thing, it would show that the Dev’s are listening, giving something tangible to the community to speculate on.

(edited for clarity)

The idea of the stickied summary has a lot of merit.
If possible, within the summary there is included a bulleted list of notable player suggestions that the devs find interesting if not usable. And if the idea is really good, a possible explanation of the key areas of concern with implementation.
That way if an idea is considered really good but in the end is not implemented, the dev’s key concerns are noted and it gives the community some understanding of how/why it was passed over.

EDIT – because of words

I believe this would be a great idea, that should enable us to focus more on the big topics at hand.

if i understand this right(and correct me if im wrong)
this sticky would have an up to date list of the questions you guys want answered (by us) in order to give you more defined and relevant feedback?

however i think this may cause the forums to be littered with many of the same topic.
how would you suggest we get around flooding the forums with unnecessary multiples of the same thread?(sorry i dont have any solutions of my own)

Colin, I would love this. I am someone who generally understands and supports your team and everything being that I talk to Mike Z and a couple others in game time to time. I totally get you all are still human and love your game as much as me. But this is a fantastic idea, I would love to see something like this just as a general baseline to know what is cooking even in the most base sense. Please do something like this.

Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

love this.

keep this progression up. thank you,

I like this idea, but it would also be nice to have the development team focused on solving one issue at a time from the thread. The thread could be organized into Quick and Impacting, Quick Fixes, and Long and Impacting. It would also be nice to know whether the dev team thinks the issue is able to be completed in two weeks, or if it would need multiple months to formulate and execute a solution for the issue. At least in this way, players can see the general worktime for the various items in the thread. Also, the ANet team could work on each list for a while separately. A bigger team to tackle a smaller number of changes should make the time it takes to implement them shorter, right?

ipan.4356:

Nobody likes the company policy.

Did you just call me a “nobody”?

@Colin great post so far hope you have your notebook out!

I really like the idea of a global sticky as a way to get the word out. Have it in an easily accessible place that we’ll see even if we never visit x-subforum.

I was actually thinking of something similar, but one global (locked) sticky with multiple topics, rather than a bunch of different threads.

Something like:

Feature-1: Very early, gathering info
We’d like to get it to where it works this way. Stay tuned!

Feature-2: Mostly done, still some bugs
It does this awesome thing, but in these 2 situations it makes you fart rainbows.

Feature-3: Abandoned
Sorry guys, it just isn’t working out. Due to x-otherfeature, we found out this was going to be impossible.

Something along those lines, just a little itemized things with brief but meaningful details. But if you want each topic to have its own thread, that’s fine too. Having it open for discussion could be especially helpful. Just as long as it’s there and kept updated. So in case we’re wondering, we can check and we’ll have info that’s current rather something somebody mentioned in an interview a year ago.

I do take issue with the fact that the policy remains as-is. That REALLY needs to be revised. But as you might be aware, we crave any and all info you are willing to give us so even if this is only a half-measure due to the current policy, it’s a whole heck of a lot better than nothing, and definitely a step in the right direction.

By this time, the only sign of awareness I would love to see would be some serious ingame developments. I´m fed up with “let´s talk about”.

Just having a sticky in each forum that goes over the key points in each aspect of the game, with updates on progress if there is any, is fine by me. I don’t care about timeframes, whether it will ever be in the game, or any of that stuff.

If I can see a sticky in the Ranger sub forum that has key discussion points involving/tracking the major issues and future of the profession, that’s fine by me.

It goes without saying, if you do set all this up, please don’t forget the profession sub forums!

Sticky dev posts at the top of discussion threads with Arenanet’s stance on the thread topic would be great, but only be of some value, if you keep them reasonably current. If you create them not only for the next 2 weeks, but for the long term.

From the past communication initiatives, I learnt that the dev attention to such things is only a few weeks. This is too short.

So, please either be committed to create and keep those posts current for the long term, or not create them at all. But if you abandon it after a few weeks, it is like all those other failed communication initiatives from the past: pointless, a waste of your time and a waste of our trust and expectations.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Sticky dev posts at the top of discussion threads with Arenanet’s stance on the thread topic would be great, but only be of some value, if you keep them reasonably current. If you create them not only for the next 2 weeks, but for the long term.

From the past communication initiatives, I learnt that the dev attention to such things is only a few weeks. This is too short.

So, please either be committed to create and keep those posts current for the long term, or not create them at all. But if you abandon it after a few weeks, it is like all those other failed communication initiatives from the past: pointless, a waste of your time and a waste of our trust and expectations.

+1

I like this idea.

Obviously I would like a real plan for the future to be able to get excited about what the future holds, but if your company really will not change that policy this is the best we can hope for.

I just hope you bring it is a talking point in the future : The reason the community blew up so much about SAB and dungeons currently not being worked on or not being a priority is that people expected them BECAUSE we have no communication coming our way.

In the same way, if we don’t get a fractal update in November people will be livid because they 100% expect it.

I won’t claim to understand or support your closed lip policy as I feel announcing upcoming things, even with no date, would be great for hype (I can only imagine how excited people would be if an expansion was announced).

I know you guys are hesitant to open up following precursors, but the large reason people were/are unhappy with those is that it’s been almost 2 years and we still haven’t heard anything about them at all, while the TP prices for them are ludicrous.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks just to be clear, this isn’t a thread where you list all the stuff you’d like to see in the game (we have plenty of those!)

This is a thread to discuss the idea of adding a sticky to the top of each of the big forum threads (PvP, dungeons, WvW, General discussions, etc.) where we help provide a very high level list of stuff the Gw2 Dev team is aware of with the game, and what questions/thoughts we’re giving those areas to help guide your discussions – and provide visibility into the very top tier stuff we’re aware of.

Feedback on just the idea itself as a concept please, thank you!

I think this is a fantastic idea. I honestly believe you guys are making an effort here to work with the community, so I’m game to give you another chance. Let’s move forward and keep this ball rolling.

Thanks for the positive updates, Colin.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Sticky dev posts at the top of discussion threads with Arenanet’s stance on the thread topic would be great, but only be of some value, if you keep them reasonably current. If you create them not only for the next 2 weeks, but for the long term.

From the past communication initiatives, I learnt that the dev attention to such things is only a few weeks. This is too short.

So, please either be committed to create and keep those posts current for the long term, or not create them at all. But if you abandon it after a few weeks, it is like all those other failed communication initiatives from the past: pointless, a waste of your time and a waste of our trust and expectations.

+1

The idea in principle is fantastic. Part of the reason there has been a fair bit of player discontent on the forums in recent months is the seeming ignorant attitudes of Anet. While the “white knights” have been pressing the view that Anet certainly are looking at and taking the criticisms and feedback seriously, there has been no cast iron evidence of that attention being paid on the forums. As such, the major assumption has been you guys haven’t really cared, and with that a lot of trust has been lost.

Suggestions like this can help to begin to rebuild that trust, and I’m all for that. I’m hopeful that the message has finally been received that its not enough to look at the feedback and consider it, you guys need to be seen to do it in order to maintain confidence while you work towards new content, and dealing with issues that have arisen.

As for the form it takes, the way you present it, to me at least, seems fine, as does the suggestions made by others. For me, so long as this isn’t a flash in the pan reaction to nullify the recent dissent and will be a long term thing, any such solution can work. I’d also like to see similar to some of the bigger threads of the last few months that have taken a backseat in the last few weeks (in particular the Megaserver feedback thread, Megaserver and RP thread, and possibly the town clothes/wardrobe thread.

The worry may be that some of the bigger issues of the last few months may still be ignored without a concerted effort to bump them up. If time is taken to address all the bigger threads of the last few months as well as the current ones, it will be a good start and could help with a sort of clean-slate approach.

I’m certainly very happy about the renewed effort from Anet in recent days, and applaud the intent here. I just hope it can become a more persistent thing.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks just to be clear, this isn’t a thread where you list all the stuff you’d like to see in the game (we have plenty of those!)

This is a thread to discuss the idea of adding a sticky to the top of each of the big forum threads (PvP, dungeons, WvW, General discussions, etc.) where we help provide a very high level list of stuff the Gw2 Dev team is aware of with the game, and what questions/thoughts we’re giving those areas to help guide your discussions – and provide visibility into the very top tier stuff we’re aware of.

Feedback on just the idea itself as a concept please, thank you!

If the sticky sits there as a marketing tool, at such a high level that it becomes virtually a message of “yes, we’ve heard feedback” and nothing more, then that constant reminder can end up being a mockery of real communication and make the process worse. (e.g. "any intuitive changes to a complex system will inevitably leave that system worse off.)

Colin, I understand you are earnestly attempting to address a real issue. There absolutely is a communication problem, some of which is rooted in what appears to be internal corporate culture and how exactly customers are viewed, and what has priority (technical internal processes over customer experience, which includes communication btw.) (Please see Wilson Learning and the programs they offer to help companies understand interactions. That’s not a plug from someone with a vested interest. That’s just a recommendation from a software development manager who volunteered to help teach those processes at a Fortune 20 company, which effectively used those processes for decades, both internally and externally with customers.)

I’ll just note: I’ve spent over 10-12 years worth of comparable subscription fees on this game; and this thread only leaves me feeling more skeptical. Although I’m sure there are many customers here who will appreciate a “bone being thrown”, it’s a little too little a little too late. (I expect this post to be flushed.)

(late edit for typo)

Just create separated sub-forum or site/blog designed with CDIs in mind.

Different rules, polls, strict scheme of posting on new site with all CDIs – that’s how I would do it at least.

Hi Colin,

Thanks for reaching out. I’m happy with Guild Wars 2 (Happy Birthday!) and was happy playing Guild Wars 1 before it.

My idea to build upon your sticky question:

“Frequently Dispelled Myths” stickies.

Example:
Myth: The economy is broken by farmers causing runaway inflation.

Answer:
The process of farming is counter inflationary, because only 10% (made up number) of the loot they earn is in gold. Items that are sold on the trading post a) are a 15% gold sink on the seller and b) are paid for by gold earned by the buyer, so no gold is generated in the process.

Have a great day!

Hey Colin, I’d just like to add my support for your idea. I’m not sure it’s entirely enough but I also realize it’s the best that can be done until someone higher up the totem pole changes company policies. And it would go a long way combined with the resumption of the CDI’s.

It may not be perfect, but it would be a vast improvement over what we’ve had this year.

Another idea that would help in addition to that would be to change the forum dev tracker to not show technical support items. No one clicks on that to see “I’m having a problem buying gems”. If you want to see that you go to the technical support forum.

I think it might be better to make stickies called Known Issues, Issues Pending Solution or something similar. Basically acknowledge existing issues in certain games mode that are being actively discussed. Then you can add some info once there is progress on a certain issue or when it is solved as you suggested so people can follow those posts.

I know it might be asking too much but having some kind of priority assigned to every issue would make these feel more ‘real’ in a sense that players can get a basic idea of your priorities. You will have to make it very clear that this is not the order these issues are worked on, but simply your perception of importance/scale. If you cannot do that then maybe include popular requests from CDI threads in a sort of top 10 most requested format that is weekly? updated. Make people feel a little bit involved in the process.

Once you have definite progress on a certain issue you could include some early preview in Ready Up or another stream to remind and inform people what you are working on. For instance you could preview changes like the Commander Tag one month earlier then open a discussion thread to get feedback.

I know that this might be excessive, but with other games that provide regular patches and previews most people started expecting these things, so another ‘we are listening’ sign will not cut it and might just make things worse.

Keep doing what you’re doing, good luck!…. And please, do something about the dev tracker.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks just to be clear, this isn’t a thread where you list all the stuff you’d like to see in the game (we have plenty of those!)

This is a thread to discuss the idea of adding a sticky to the top of each of the big forum threads (PvP, dungeons, WvW, General discussions, etc.) where we help provide a very high level list of stuff the Gw2 Dev team is aware of with the game, and what questions/thoughts we’re giving those areas to help guide your discussions – and provide visibility into the very top tier stuff we’re aware of.

Feedback on just the idea itself as a concept please, thank you!

I say go for it. As long as it is updated relatively frequently it should be helpful.

The best thing you can do is talk about things you’ve done, without saying what you’re going to implement.

For example, “We’ve tried doing x,y,z mechanics with profession x. We did find things we liked about those mechanics, some did not seem to fit right with the profession though.”

I’m afraid as an Engineer I too have to agree with Fadeaway about some of the decisions you see I too experienced this kind of weirdness.

We had a talk some time ago about how kits were too popular, loads of great ideas where put forth in the suggestions folder on how to fix turrets and make gadgets and elixirs better choices as well as adding multiple weapons with awesome suggestions for their use (like a staff for engineer with lightning affects) but instead of listening to the playerbase, it was decided that kit refinement be broken.

Now the Engineer is weak when it comes to alternative methods (other than elixir line) of removing conditions as well as essential emergency heals. Not just that but we have to work harder to get AOE heals to occur whereas other classes just sit back and do their normal thing while heals just happen.

I hope as Fadeaway has mentioned that in the future these discussions and summaries will prevent events like Kit Refinement from ever occurring again because these drastic changes are both shocking and a very unwelcomed surprise and often don’t get fixes especially in PVE, and that we understand why the more brilliant solutions are left astray like those who are well received and upvoted but ultimately ignored.

ColinJohanson.2394:

As stated back in my first post, the concept here is to simply provide more visibility by providing a list of top tier game areas we’re aware of or concerned about so it’s visible to players.

As a frustrated WvW player, this doesn’t do anything for me. I only care that you’re aware of a problem to the extent that a solution is actively in the works – something your truly bizarre company policy prohibits you from sharing and discussing. For instance, I’m certain that the relevant ANet parties are aware of some WvW bugs that have been in game since launch, like the immobilize upon siege deployment bug. A sticky highlighting that ANet is aware of the issue, then, is about as helpful as a soiled diaper. For me, at least, it just leaves a bad odor, reminding me that long-known issues have received inadequate responses.

Colin, Chris,

I think part of the problem here is that the playerbase is not a monolithic whole, it’s a collection of 10 or more different factions of people who play the game in different ways and have different needs.

Without a clear segmentation of the playerbase (a very complex task which will never be entirely correct), player input will collectively be self contradictory and a one-size-fits-all analysis will seem like it’s all useless loud noise.

Oh, and some players are part of more than one segment.

I would really encourage you to do your best at segmenting the player base, and then align the topic points (and therefore the topic point stickies) with the player segments. This will give you both qualitative (I want more PvE zones) and quantitiative (gee, 10 people were interested in PvE for every person interested in WvWvW) feedback about the segments.

What you are doing is more like running a political campaign than like the technical work of designing a game. If you don’t get enough votes (in this case $ spent), a lot of really good people will lose their jobs. That inherently means you need to build a coalition of different segments, because no one segment will generate enough votes to get you re elected (enough $ to keep ArenaNet at current staffing level).

Reality is that you will have to let some segments go, and despite the short term pain I would encourage you to be up front about those decisions. Focus on building sub communities (starting with real, constructive discussion within each segment) so that the surviving sub communities will feel vibrant to the players, even if GW2 itself has a shrinking player base. Perception is reality.

Remember that. Perception is reality.

I honestly can’t take this guy seriously anymore.
Or this so called discussion, it’s ‘we come up with ideas, they ignore us’. Because it is their bloody policy to do so.

I have no intention of being part of a discussion with people who simply will not be honest with us, and intend to continually keep us in the dark. As long as this policy exists, there can be no discussion.

That’s a brilliant idea. But make sure you emphasize the second to last point; people need to understand it’s not an exhaustive list and it’s not a promise- it’s just to let us know you know what we care about

I hope the devs won’t stay away from this and similar topics because a bunch of people try to derail the threads again and again.

seriously frustrated wvwer, this is not a bug-list, start reading the actual topic

Hi Colin, Chris, and all of the other fine folks from ANET out here reading,

I’d like to offer a serious post out here. I understand the past few days there’s been a push, for whatever reason, for the folks over at ArenaNet to take a great deal of person time, energy, and effort (much of it outside of work and on their own time, out of their own interest) to work on this.

I understand what that commitment means, and I understand it can be personally very daunting to walk out here into what can at times be a “toxic” or “inflammatory” environment.

However, I’d also like to offer some perspective, and help provide some understanding about what has been happening the past two days, because it’s a result of what has been happening the past two years.

When Guild Wars 2 first came out, it was a blockbuster, a breakthrough, and a breath of fresh air on the MMORPG scene with a number of massive innovations. I remember walking into the low level personal stories with their cinematic, personally involved design and thinking “wow!” and even little details like everyone having their own instanced mining nodes helped to build community. Loot problems vanished when loot became personal. This was an interactive, artistic, community-driven game.

It then felt like a few months after release, attention to the community, and an active interest in seeking community input, vanished.

Please understand.

This is not a toxic post, this is an attempt to provide some understanding about what has happened.

The community can be one of the most powerful and helpful tools in a developer’s toolbox. We understand the issues. We understand the bugs. We understand the problems. We understand what works. We understand what doesn’t work. We understand what’s fun. We understand what’s not fun. We understand what can be done to improve them.

We also care just as deeply and passionately about the game.

The reason there is so much anger is because those few of us who are still left in this dying game still care about it, because we see the potential, we see the hope. Yes, there’s the China launch, and that’s probably contributing to the bottom lines.

But please understand the community’s anger:

Our game is dying.

And we are trying desperately to save it.

For many of us, it has been dead for a very, very long time now.

And we’ve given up hope trying to save it.

This game was such an innovative breakthrough. The art is stunningly beautiful. The world, before it started being chewed up and destroyed with no hope of restoring it, was beautiful. Now it’s feeling not like “there’s a dragon out there trying to stop us!” but “the world itself is mirroring the slow decay of the relationship between developers and the community, and the poor upkeep of the game.”

I understand the folks over in the building are hopelessly tired and overworked, passionate, dedicated, and driven. I understand there’s a sense of pride and dignity about the game in the building. I understand there’s a sense of accomplishment.

And in my line of work, dealing with very large issues under so many layers of NDA’s that I can’t even legally speak about them anonymously, with long lead times and frustrated clients I deeply understand on a personal and professional level what it means to have your hands tied on communicating with your customers.

But please understand: that’s not an acceptable excuse to the customers.

We don’t care about corporate policy. That’s behind the scenes to us.

This doesn’t mean we’re unreasonable.

This is really, really important.

What has happened, over time, is that things players do not care about have been a development priority. Things that have actively damaged the world for no reason, and consumed developer resources that could have been better spent on things players cared about, have been used in the worst possible way.

There has been virtually no useful communication with players about what to expect, the direction of the game, or opportunities for discussions on a strategic level.

The dangers this game faces, right now, are not at the detail level. They are at the strategic level.

I’d like to take a moment to share some of the community expectations. I have attempted to voice this, loudly, many times through appropriate channels (including internal ones) and have been ignored.

(Post continued below.)

(Continued from previous post.)

If anyone out there is determined to help fix problems like this, break through communication problems, get people who speak different languages and see different things to sit down together at the same table and start agreeing on things, by God, I’m one of them. This is what I do professionally and passionately.

And I will be blunt, and honest:

I have been unable to ply my trade with ArenaNet.

And I gave up.

Please understand the ramifications of this statement when thinking about how badly communication between developers and the player community has atrophied.

I’d like to take a moment to express what many people in the community believed and hoped would happen with the direction of the game, and what actually happened. This is not to chastise. This is to help inform, and my guess is allow ArenaNet developers to stop looking at the “toxic, inflammatory” mess of the forums as an irrational rampaging mob, and start looking at it for what it is: a bunch of people who have been loyal customers, trying, believing, holding on, who have been let down and pushed aside again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

There should actually be about twenty-three agains there.

What you see before you now are the last of the die-hards who still care enough to be angry.

My hope is to help shed some light on why that is, and what can be done about it.

If the attitude is that “these players are inherently toxic, irrational, and there is nothing that can be done about them” (bearing in mind these are the folks who cared the most passionately about the game, and have hung in there for two years of neglect and mistreatment) then I regret there is nothing more I can offer, and nothing I can write no matter how patiently I attempt to explain will be useful.

I sincerely hope that this time, my words are not ignored. There is a tiny spark of hope still left in me that Guild Wars 2 will rise up from the dead and return to help move MMORPGs forward. Right now, it’s a code blue.

I’ve hung on as long as I can, but to be honest, I’m not even sure it makes sense to bother doing my dailies any more, unless something changes.

And I stood before my guild telling them to hang on, and kept my guild in this game for an extra six months, while folks were getting antsy. I’m not sure you’ll find a more hardcore GW2 fanboy than me, because I love this game, and I love my characters. I don’t mind playing the same content out for a year. But two is getting very hard.

What did players expect at launch?

At launch, the game was amazing. It was healthy. It was hard. It was groundbreaking. Every ounce of pride that the original development team felt at launch, I shared as a player. Holy hell, these guys set the bar. Wow.

The two months before launch, for the first time since playing MMORPGs, I went two months without a subscription to anything rather than play anything else, because I couldn’t wait for GW2 to launch.

I have never, ever done that before.

Learning the timing, the movement, the dodging and the no-trinity style of play was a completely new beast. This game took time to master, and my guildmates and I were pushed more than we’ve been pushed before. This was just amazing.

The world was huge! We had space on the map where new zones could and would be added.

We had five more dragons.

We had limitless potential for living story content.

The dungeons were incredibly well done. The addition of the fractals a few months after release boded extremely well.

And World v. World! We’re old DAoC fans, and this was the best we’d ever seen since RvR finally flamed out, and DAoC died.

I wanted this game to be my “home” for the next four, five, maybe even more years. I could see playing this game for a long, long time.

We killed Zhaitan off around Christmas, and plunged into fractals, rolling waves of alts.

The quiet rumblings around the Norn starting zone happened…

Oh, my god, Jormag! YES!

…. and then it all went to hell.

(Post continued below.)

(Continued from previous post.)

As soon as the living story landed, and began adding content only to remove it shortly afterward, opening up no permanent zones, adding no new dungeons, no new play, creating innovative new play (the invasions, for example) that could and should have been new challenge-packed zones and permanent encounters with replay, I got to play once, or maybe twice.

And then we were back to running the same old dungeons again.

We have this huge swath of painterly, beautiful map.

It took two years for a single new permanent zone to be added.

Lion’s Arch, one of the most bustling, beautiful, and active zones in the game was destroyed.

Throughout all of this, we went from an active, engaging fantasy world with Zhaitan an the Orr, and a deep connection to the original GW1 lore over to Scarlet… who looked and sounded like a caricature out of a Saturday morning cartoon.

When Scarlet appeared, the epic “tone” and “feeling” of the game world dropped this down from an epic MMO to cheap cartoons.

That was a deep, deep, painful blow.

Guild Wars 2 has only barely begun to recover in its ambiance from that blow.

There are masterful writers now at the helm desperately trying to salvage the game’s “feeling” from the damage left by Scarlet, her cheap antics, and content that only lasted a few weeks before being removed while old content, re-used dozens and dozens of time, was left without relief.

Dungeon play has been ignored.

WvW has been ignored.

New classes, not on the table.

New abilities, barely.

One new zone, dense, but filled with tricks and gimmicks on the front end that dissuaded many of my guildmates from stepping into it. (“How do I move around this zone?”) But a step in the right direction, except for the decision to gate the front-end of it with movement gimmicks. It’s fine for me, but instantly disgusted many guildmates who were already on thin ice with ArenaNet and this game as a whole.

No expansions, which are desperately needed.

We’re just now beginning to see rumblings of a dragon, thank god, but I’m deeply worried that this will be far too little far too late.

Right now, Guild Wars 2 needs new content. New replayable, dense, immersive content. The living story steps introduced over the past month-ish have been a helpful step.

But they are also two hours of solo content.

We need hundreds of hours of group content.

More dungeons, more fractals, more zones.

Now, I understand intimately that a resource-strapped developer with people who are pushed to the limit already, who care deeply and passionately about their game will look at that list of needs and blanch in horror: you’ve got to be kidding me! There’s no way we have the manpower to do that, much less do that quickly!

But please understand, these are things that the player base has needed, asked for, cried for, begged for, for two years.

Instead, Lion’s Arch blew up, and was replaced with ugly smoldering craters.

Events that took real time, energy, and effort to work on were completely removed from the game.

If every scrap of content that had been introduced over the past two years had been permanently added to the game, and resources were shifted towards creating a steady flow of new combat zones, new dungeons, new fractals, and real improvements to sPvP and WvW that were based on understanding player needs, player desires, and responding to those needs and desires with player’s input, I believe there would be far more people playing GW2 today, and those posting here would be much more content.

Right now, the players are frustrated and angry because we have been clinging, very stubbornly, probably stupidly, to hope that things will get better. We have been loyal. We have been buying gems, and we have been playing.

But it feels like what we want, and care about, as players has not been even remotely interesting to developers, much less noticed, understood, or acted upon.

Please understand that I am now a Wildstar subscriber.

I didn’t want to leave GW2.

But it’s been difficult, with so little added or changed for so long, aside from fleeting living stories that give us a few hours to play in the middle of busy periods of work and always leave a lasting scar on the world. Content drops that leave the game worse when they’re over, and feel like nothing has changed, because nothing has been added.

Things have only been taken away, forever, like Lion’s Arch. I’ve never played a game before that has actively destroyed itself and removed content as time has gone on, rather than adding it.

(Continued in post below.)

(Continued from post above.)

I still log on and still play when and where we can.

I’m the leader of a Blackgate PvX guild that has been able to quietly make very large contributions to our PPT during very odd play times. I lead in WvW.

I’ve been an avid sPvP player for some time.

I have plenty of things to do and to work on.

I run fractals, and I have many, many alts.

I’ve played virtually every living story to achievement completion.

I have multiple characters decked in full ascended.

And I’m running out of hope.

The response to this should not be “Well, there’s nothing we can do about it if you’ve decided to leave.”

No.

I’m asking, and pleading, for you to understand not just my own, but my guild’s and my community’s concerns.

There needs to be a concerted, centralized effort to poll the player base and get a firm grip on what expectations and desires for the direction of the game are. Back in the Beta’s, there was an incredible system that asked for player input and feedback on the spot about different features. It was an inherent part of the game, and allowed players to write short statements along with it.

This metric needs to be introduced in a large, broad “Guild Wars 2 Survey” that polls the entire playerbase, optionally, through the game interface, asking a series of questions about the state of the game, it’s direction, and what forms of content matter most to them.

Questions like, check all of the things you’d love to see more of in the game:
[ ] New Zones
[ ] New Dungeons
[ ] New Fractals
[ ] New Living stories

Or, better yet, rank order each of these. This will help inform development priorities based off what players care most about.

Do people enjoy seeing existing content destroyed? Figure out if things like the Lion’s Arch attack were viewed positively or negatively by the player base. Find out in statistically valid means by using polling systems in-game, so that not only the feelings of forum posters are represented. Ignore the non-input of those who do not exercise their ability to provide feedback in-game.

Regularly re-do these large, broad Guild Wars 2 Surveys every six months to make sure players and developers are on the same page about the direction of the game.

If there is a wide disparity between what players care about, as indicated in statistically valid and quantifiable ways by the survey (this should be a basic marketing exercise) and what developers are prioritizing, please understand that the result will be situations that look like this one now, where hardcore, diehard GW2 fans are coming out, and writing long-winded but heartfelt posts to developers, trying desperately to explain this horrible path to people who are confused, irritated, and personally insulted by all of the “toxic” and “inflammatory” posts appearing out here.

Many of my guildmates are no longer willing to waste their time.

They do not believe that ArenaNet is either listening, or willing to listen.

One of them is off playing with player housing, quite happily.

Last night, we were playing new dungeons.

At one point, in the middle of a Wildstar dungeon, all four of us stopped, and sighed.

“I wish we had new content like this in GW2.”

At one point, my co-GM finished building a player house.

“I wish I had this for my toons in GW2.”

Another guildmate and I were out in a new zone, struggling with challenging mobs.

“Man, I wish we had zones like this in GW2!”

Truth be told, we all hate the graphics in Wildstar.

If GW2 had content like this, we’d be back in a heartbeat.

I wish we did.

I hope this post helped.

I have done my best to explain calmly, simply, and earnestly my observations of my guild, my server, and these boards over the past two years.

I genuinely care about this game.

I hope there’s something in the works that will help all of us change our minds.

We were sad to leave, but there’s only so many times you can run the same encounters, while your server community is destroyed by megaservers, and WvW is allowed to decay while core imbalances, bugs, and problems sit unresolved for months and years, so long that players stop bothering to post on the forums.

I want GW2 back.

And you need our help to bring it back.

I wish you the best.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

If these posts are deleted, then I’ll have my answer.

A sad part of me expects they will be.

Best regards,

Matipzieu KyA
Guild Master of <KyA>, founded 2002
Guild Wars 2 since closed beta.
Blackgate since before launch.
Guardian, Necromancer, Warrior
PvE, Fractals, PvP, WvW.

Also, maybe you could implement something in the forums that allow devs to do a like/dislike upvote/downvote type thing on player posts and comments; just to let us know you’ve read something and either thought it was a cool idea or you disagree for whatever reason

I just hope it does not backfire and players start saying things like:

we can see that you know about problem x. Why isn’t it fixed yet?

Guess the main problem is not how you communicate with us but what you communicate. Telling us about what you read in the forums would not solve any problems.

It sounds more like a recap of the biggest forum topics and would not tell us anything about your plans.

Personally i would prefer something like that:

and

It does not have to be as specific, but telling us your directions and what you’d like to work on would help alot!

You dont have to promise anything…

But yeah… company policy …

edit: does not have to be extensive and would also work as sticky in the forums

It is obvious that people are frustrated with the direction the game has been going for the last few years. There are many different point of views and some contradict themselves someone likes/dislikes something another person likes. We have to remember this game is for everyone not just a group. I think we are moving in the right direction. Your OP says it all. Baby steps. People felt there was a silence and no communication and here this pops up lets focus on this and I am sure we can move forward in a productive way I’m very optimistic. Lets focus on this and remember they are giving us a hand lets not take their arm. Lets try to focus on the post and the question that was asked.

Last comment: my Co-GM, Matipzieu above speaks for me, as well as our entire guild. He took the time to spell out the issues, in a way I did not feel was necessary to do for other developers. I commend him for taking the time on a busy moving day, to stop packing to post about his passion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Brainstorm-Key-Discussion-Points/page/2#post4329319

Likewise, Colin, I commend you for trying to address the communication issue.

Again, from someone who has spent 10-12 years worth of comparable subscription fees on this game, from someone who posted in multiple places that 2 years ago, waiting 6 months without a game to play, (first time in 13+ years of MMO play), for a game that had me as excited as a kid waiting for Christmas (no mean feat, for a woman my age – 57)….. someone who at one point was able to give internal input that was given glowing recognition…..

… I continue to want to play this game, yet feel pushed out by what I can only say absolutely feels like total lack of care for the customers and their experiences.

Lack of significant, quality, on-going communication is a huge part of that.

That ANet cares about their game, is not in question.

As I warned Chris, regarding the CDI, if there is not on-going commitment to it, if there is not a two-way dialogue, trust/faith will be damaged, and the communication problem will become worse.

This post is designed to be on topic. It is not only what is posted, it is how, and how often. The interaction style (again, see Wilson Learning) will communicate just as much, if not more than the content being discussed.

PS: Specifically answering ONLY the (isolated) question being asked, in a highly analytic way, will not fully convey the data required to move communication forward in positive direction. That is part of the communication issue at stake.

Please do this. I would like to know what you the developers consider issues that need to be fixed or what sort of content you want to work on – even if you have to abandon it later. I have been losing faith in the game lately and a road map would help me know whether to stay or quietly go elsewhere.

I like the idea. It’d be useful to know whether or not the devs are aware of serious bugs or issues that will be addressed down the line.

I want there to be more dev/player communication but as a WvW player I don’t see this happening. Devon rarely comments on the forums. Its a monthly thing from what i’ve seen.

I’d say to try it for a bit and see how it goes.

If it proves to be counterproductive, then just tell us “Sorry all, it wasn’t doing what we intended for it to do. We’ll try something else.”

For spvp i think top priority are:

1) new game mode
2) seasons and league
3) new general infrastructure (hot join rework in unranked, soloqueue fix)

I would like to echo the sentiments of the above long post. My Alliance from GW1 has been together since 2007. The remaining forces talk a lot about where we would like to see the game go. We are passionate fans of this game. Please do start this up so we can get the ball rolling. We want progress because Tyria is where we want to hang our MMO hats.

I know you guys and gals at ArenaNet want everyone to keep playing. I can’t help but get the feeling though that the game now isn’t for the long-termers. It’s for the guys and gals that have a few hours a week to play and this Living Story stuff fills their gaming desires to a tee. And that is fine. It just bums me out because I am not that gamer.

All of my hopes are pinned on future permanent, highly replayable content being released.

But I am all in on giving the most constructive feedback possible in the most honest and respectful way I know how. So whatever you all come up with is cool by me. You all at ArenaNet rock and I hope you have the wherewithall to see this thing through to the end because something really worthwhile could come out of it. Cheers.

Hey Colin thanks a lot for taking the time to post this!

I think doing something like this is a really great idea! I think it will give a lot of Guildwars 2 players information that they haven’t really been able to get for a long time about the game. It will also be very helpful to see some big issues/topics of the game explained and get some insight on how Guildwars 2 will grow in the future.

I think a lot of Guildwars players have been feeling a bit ignored lately and that a lot of what the want hasn’t really been listened too. There is also this feeling of what is happening for this game in the future? Where is the game going? Over the last 2 years we have seen a lot of big changes into how the game has been developing moving forward, for example having the extended experience team adding in events and mini dungeons for the october 2012 release, then 1 living world team with a month to make content ( see the dreaded sign repairing update) then 4 living world teams on rotation, now back to 1 big living world team again. I would love to see some sort of explanation as to why there have been such big changes into how the game is being developed, it would be super interesting!

I know this is asking A LOT, but I think gw2 fans would love to see say a video showing a few of the guildwars 2 teams we haven’t seen in a while and just general sorts of things they have worked on pre-launch of guildwars 2 and perhaps see them dropping tiny hints of what we might see in the future

I know you can’t go into detail with much of this, which I totally understand, but I think the gw2 community would just love a little picture or a just a tiny sneak peek of something big thats coming. Maybe just a blurry picture of something that could be used to make precursors, or a picture showing something that could be a tower in the distance which could hint and new wvw maps etc etc…

Would love to see what your thought are on all this Colin, all in all I love that the CDI is coming back and I think this is a really great idea and would love to see some more communication with you guys!

I support the idea. It gives some indication of direction and focus, while staying within the communication boundaries you have to adher to.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll separate out the idea now into a practical application of what this could look like for one existing thread:

Structured PvP Forum Thread

Key Discussion Point: New Game Mode for PvP

High Level Focus Points:

- What kind of game mode(s) would be best in PvP for Gw2 on top of the current conquest game mode type given the games fast past action combat style?

- How should players be able to decide which game mode, or even which map within a game mode to play each round? Can a solution to this also solve issues with bias towards certain existing conquest maps?

- What key moments can a strong game mode have to help make it feel strategic and exciting when a key moment occurs? Can they happen every frequently enough to make each match exciting, and help provide comeback mechanics? Can these key moments provide teams multiple options to ensure different strategies for playing that can stand out and be identified?

- Can viewers clearly see and understand key moments when watching a stream and feel they are exciting without needing to understand the nuance of the combat occurring?

- Matches should be short, compelling, and easy to jump in and out of to keep the game approachable – but have layers of depth and strategy that experienced players can master.

Last Update:

- Demo versions of some potential new PvP game modes were given on an episode of Ready Up. [link goes here]

Edited or better formatting!

Not really seeing any issues with the formattng. Would format be used across all modes of play or will we only be seeing this in the sPvP sub-forums?