Guild Wars 2

Iconik.8712:

kokiman.2364:

Iconik.8712:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

You guys refuse to let us have fun don’t you? Even when we’re farming legitimately you have to swoop in like some anti-fun despot and ruin everything. Because we all know you don’t want us getting loot/gold/mats on our own at a quick clip. You want us to struggle for it so we cave in and buy gems, turn gems into gold and buy the stuff we want.

You people are effing incredible, man. I just don’t get it.

Yeah “let us have fun”. Your farmzerg isn’t representative for the whole community.

It’s a legitimate farm while completing the event. You’re saying those that do it right aren’t representative of the community? If you don’t want to do it right, find another map. You’re free to do it wrong. If you want to do it right, I’ll taxi you in.

And some people play FOR achievements and that’s what they farm, and that farm is interfering with how they enjoy the game. Why can’t you let THEM have fun? That’s the real question.

I know that farmers who are horrible to everyone else are the exception to the rule. They’re also present at every one of these farms at any given time and they drive people not only away from the farm…but away from the game. Toxic community is never a good thing.

Ideally everyone should be like you. Rules have to be made because not everyone is.

Vayne.8563:

And some people play FOR achievements and that’s what they farm, and that farm is interfering with how they enjoy the game. Why can’t you let THEM have fun? That’s the real question.

If the zergs complete the event when people say hey I need this for the achievement what’s the issue?

But the people who need the achievement need to communicate (nicely) to make sure that the group of people there know that someone needs the achievement.

and the zerg of people there also need to play nice and complete the event when it is needed.

If this was happening all of the time then no one would have complained and Anet wouldn’t have needed to intervene.

Vayne. Your argument is invalid. Again, we asked everyone before we’d start each time whether or not they needed the achievement and we got it for them 100% of the time if even one person said they needed it.

If someone is trying to get the Slayer achievement, but I’m farming Skelk…what’s the difference?

>Ideally everyone should be like you. Rules have to be made because not everyone is.

That was Zoso’s intention with the post. To reboot the culture of event farming. It starts with one person. Regardless of that, ANet doesn’t want us farming lucratively anyway so…

Vayne.8563:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

I wonder if Anet will ever learn that it is them who are making the toxic environment…

Players want to farm. It will continue until you either:

A. Ban every player in the game and shut down the game
B. Remove every mob in the game

Maybe figure out what players want and give it to them instead of trying to rule your game with an iron fist of depression.

Farming isn’t really the issue. Abusing people who want to finish events is the issue. If farmers accepted the fact that some people actually like to play the game as intended, there wouldn’t be a problem. The problem exists because farmers feel like they own the event. They don’t.

Anet has said no one should ever feel bad about finishing an event. And that is the proverbial that.

So the 50+ farmers don’t own the event, but the 1 person who wants to finish it and ruin the gameplay experience of 50 people somehow owns it?

That makes no sense at all. The event was meant to be failed, or it wouldn’t have a failure condition. It didn’t randomly grow a failure condition, Anet implemented it, coded it, and expected it to be failed.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

I wonder if Anet will ever learn that it is them who are making the toxic environment…

Players want to farm. It will continue until you either:

A. Ban every player in the game and shut down the game
B. Remove every mob in the game

Maybe figure out what players want and give it to them instead of trying to rule your game with an iron fist of depression.

Farming isn’t really the issue. Abusing people who want to finish events is the issue. If farmers accepted the fact that some people actually like to play the game as intended, there wouldn’t be a problem. The problem exists because farmers feel like they own the event. They don’t.

Anet has said no one should ever feel bad about finishing an event. And that is the proverbial that.

So the 50+ farmers don’t own the event, but the 1 person who wants to finish it and ruin the gameplay experience of 50 people somehow owns it?

That makes no sense at all. The event was meant to be failed, or it wouldn’t have a failure condition. It didn’t randomly grow a failure condition, Anet implemented it, coded it, and expected it to be failed.

Actually, get this, ANET owns the event and ANET has said no one should ever feel bad, or be made to feel bad about completing an event.

Since it’s not my event and it’s not your event, I’ll have to believe Anet.

Iconik.8712:

Vayne. Your argument is invalid. Again, we asked everyone before we’d start each time whether or not they needed the achievement and we got it for them 100% of the time if even one person said they needed it.

If someone is trying to get the Slayer achievement, but I’m farming Skelk…what’s the difference?

>Ideally everyone should be like you. Rules have to be made because not everyone is.

That was Zoso’s intention with the post. To reboot the culture of event farming. It starts with one person. Regardless of that, ANet doesn’t want us farming lucratively anyway so…

My argument is invalid only if you and every server does it. People have had conflicts. You and your guys can’t be on every server all the time.

Seriously, I applaud what you’re doing. I do. I’m not being sarcastic. I truly wish everyone was like that.

>My argument is invalid only if you and every server does it

Got news for ya, Vayne. It’s an MMO. Operative words being Multiplayer and Online. People are going to be jerks. It happens. You won’t escape it by fixing legitimate farm.

>You and your guys can’t be on every server all the time.

We can start to reboot the culture. It starts with us. I can taxi you in if you want to have fun and do it right.

<3

TexZero.7910:

kokiman.2364:

Ban those exploiters or they will keep doing it.

Nerf the event and they’ll find a new one…

Or we could just make all events rewarding and remove DR.

Just sayin’

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the real issue here is not the players, it’s the design.

^ Ding ding ding

Anet has a history of being utter crap at making events more rewarding to fail then they are to succeed.

Iconik.8712:

>My argument is invalid only if you and every server does it

Got news for ya, Vayne. It’s an MMO. Operative words being Multiplayer and Online. People are going to be jerks. It happens. You won’t escape it by fixing legitimate farm.

>You and your guys can’t be on every server all the time.

We can start to reboot the culture. It starts with us. I can taxi you in if you want to have fun and do it right.

<3

I wish we could reboot the culture. If that’s what we want to do, this thread might not be the best or only place to do it. Maybe there should be a reboot the culture thread and get some support behind it. I know my guild would support it.

Nothing really to discuss here. Anet has made their stance clear (they will fix events that people are deliberately failing events they meant for people to actually try and beat) and they have said they plan to fix this event.

Not sure why people are beating this conversation into the dust like this. Do you think theyre going to change their minds or something?

Bottom line – they dont have a choice but to fix these events because the players (on both sides of the discussion) aren’t giving them one. It’s either let players rage at each other/possibly block each others’ progress – or fix it, listen to a little rage on the forums for about a week and move on.

I know which I would choose.

Yeah, intentionally failing an event is entirely different from failing an event because you didn’t have enough people or were not able to fulfill the requirements of the event unintentionally. Of course events have failure outcomes because it is supposed to be a possibility to fail, but it was never intended for people to intentionally fail. Anet does need a serious overhaul to the way people go about getting their shinies or else this type of skritt for brains behavior will continue (this is meant to be humorous so don’t rage).

Iconik.8712:

kokiman.2364:

Iconik.8712:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

You guys refuse to let us have fun don’t you? Even when we’re farming legitimately you have to swoop in like some anti-fun despot and ruin everything. Because we all know you don’t want us getting loot/gold/mats on our own at a quick clip. You want us to struggle for it so we cave in and buy gems, turn gems into gold and buy the stuff we want.

You people are effing incredible, man. I just don’t get it.

Yeah “let us have fun”. Your farmzerg isn’t representative for the whole community.

It’s a legitimate farm while completing the event. You’re saying those that do it right aren’t representative of the community? If you don’t want to do it right, find another map. You’re free to do it wrong. If you want to do it right, I’ll taxi you in.

Guess I misread something, in this case sorry.

Ahh! A friend of mine today passed 1h trying to do his Living story because it seemed bugged.

Farmers I hate you a lot!

Vayne.8563:

Shakkara.2641:

Vayne.8563:

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

It was changed because it divided the community in an unhealthy way. Events were meant to be finished. Not my opinion, but what the devs are saying.

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Sorry, but players have a CHOICE. Do A and get X, or do B and get Y.

Making a choice in a game that is marketed to give players the feeling that the world “Cares that they’re there!” is an exploit now? Lol, so players making a choice and getting rewarded by the designed consequences is not allowed…

If failing an event is not allowed, then it shouldn’t be an option in the game at all. Then we can have a nicely linear WoW game without a “living breathing world” that doesn’t care about player input at all.

This is by design, and if its not intended, then Anet should change their design to reward ‘proper’ behavior a lot more. Right now, the rewards from completing an event are pretty much non-existent, while the actual loot comes from champion mobs that spawn as part of the event. So the question for farmers is simply: “Which event chain spawns the most champions the fastest?”

If Anet wants to change this mentality, then it should properly reward successful event completion with loot that exceeds the champion loot.

According to the TOS using something in game in a way it wasn’t designed to be used to profit is exploiting. If you don’t like the definition, take it up with Anet.

I see it as an unintended way to make more than the game was going to provide if you played it as intended. Apparently Anet sees it the same way.

Seriously wtf are you talking about. The event was made to have two possible outcomes – succeed or fail. Players have a choice, they don’t only get to choose to succeed. Otherwise the event should be successful whether anyone participates or not.

Until you can link a post here on the forums that confirms this is considered an exploit, or someone posts here, I’m going to have to disagree with your asinine logic.

No need to confirm it’s an exploit since Anet decided to fix it and they will. Yeah!

calyx.9086:

Vayne.8563:

Shakkara.2641:

Vayne.8563:

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

It was changed because it divided the community in an unhealthy way. Events were meant to be finished. Not my opinion, but what the devs are saying.

Making more from an event that was never meant to be failed to profit is considered an exploit.

Sorry, but players have a CHOICE. Do A and get X, or do B and get Y.

Making a choice in a game that is marketed to give players the feeling that the world “Cares that they’re there!” is an exploit now? Lol, so players making a choice and getting rewarded by the designed consequences is not allowed…

If failing an event is not allowed, then it shouldn’t be an option in the game at all. Then we can have a nicely linear WoW game without a “living breathing world” that doesn’t care about player input at all.

This is by design, and if its not intended, then Anet should change their design to reward ‘proper’ behavior a lot more. Right now, the rewards from completing an event are pretty much non-existent, while the actual loot comes from champion mobs that spawn as part of the event. So the question for farmers is simply: “Which event chain spawns the most champions the fastest?”

If Anet wants to change this mentality, then it should properly reward successful event completion with loot that exceeds the champion loot.

According to the TOS using something in game in a way it wasn’t designed to be used to profit is exploiting. If you don’t like the definition, take it up with Anet.

I see it as an unintended way to make more than the game was going to provide if you played it as intended. Apparently Anet sees it the same way.

Seriously wtf are you talking about. The event was made to have two possible outcomes – succeed or fail. Players have a choice, they don’t only get to choose to succeed. Otherwise the event should be successful whether anyone participates or not.

Until you can link a post here on the forums that confirms this is considered an exploit, or someone posts here, I’m going to have to disagree with your asinine logic.

That’s like saying, when playing chess, you have two choices, you can win or lose. But the object of the game is to win. If you’re playing chess to lose, you’re playing it wrong.

Now, we’re designed in this game, by intent, to be good guys. The fail portion of it means we’ve lost and games are made to be one.

There’s no ethical matter here where if we lose we go down a different path some how.

This is just a self-serving rationalizations for farmers to keep playing the game in a way not intended.

Again the Anet quote said no one should ever feel they can’t finish an event. He didn’t say no one should feel they have to finish it.

Just as a suggestion on a possible fix: Instead of decreasing the restart time after a Fail and increasing it after a Win – do it the other way round. i.e. it restarts quicker after a Glorious Win than a Pathetic Lose.

That way, the Zerg-farm Brigade can farm to their hearts’ content, have some incentive to beat the thing – and, of course, show that they’re actually capable of achieving a Win in the first place.

personally I love these threads.

Farmers want to farm, but get called, toxic, exploiters, griefers etc… for wanting to do so

Non-farmers want to finish the event and get called idiots, Griefers, QQ’ers etc… for wanting to do so

BUT!

it makes no difference what is said in these threads, why?

Because A-Net will always nerf the farm (quoting:: unintended use of a mechanic, “exploiting” an event, etc…)

The only thing I would ask is do people think the “nerf” is for the “good of the community/game” or is it because it impacts on the gem store (a.k.a Cash Cow?))

I personally find it strange that they react unbelievably fast to any farm but ignore existing bugs (some of which have been in game since beta) so my felling is that it is with the latter reason in mind they proceed to nerf.

However, I leave it to each person to put their own definition in place.

OnyX.9027:

personally I love these threads.

Farmers want to farm, but get called, toxic, exploiters, griefers etc… for wanting to do so

Non-farmers want to finish the event and get called idiots, Griefers, QQ’ers etc… for wanting to do so

BUT!

it makes no difference what is said in these threads, why?

Because A-Net will always nerf the farm (quoting:: unintended use of a mechanic, “exploiting” an event, etc…)

The only thing I would ask is do people think the “nerf” is for the “good of the community/game” or is it because it impacts on the gem store (a.k.a Cash Cow?))

I personally find it strange that they react unbelievably fast to any farm but ignore existing bugs (some of which have been in game since beta) so my felling is that it is with the latter reason in mind they proceed to nerf.

However, I leave it to each person to put their own definition in place.

You have a strange definition of unbelievably fast. It took them a long long time to fix the ember farm. And you know, that was probably relatively easy to do, as compared to existing bugs which may or may not be quite so easy to find.

/conspiracy theory

I cannot stress this enough. There are tons of us that are organized and dedicated to running this daily for several hours a day and doing it right. We run the event, stack up, gets tons of loot and have tons of fun. We complete the event if even one person needs the achievement. If you’re there for LS, you’ll get that too whether it fails or succeeds.

The difference here is this:
If you fail the event the respawn timer is 5 minutes.
If you complete the event the respawn timer is 20 minutes.

When you complete the event you have 20 minutes. So what happens is is that someone tags up and runs champtrain on Drake, Wurm and Troll. We wait for Quaggan Queen and Trio to pop. We do those while we wait for Coil to respawn. Once it respawns, we head there, complete it and repeat.

I absolutely do not see the issue here, other than ANET using the complaints of toxicity in those few maps as an excuse to justify them fixing the event so that we aren’t too lucrative because, again, they want you to struggle for loot so you eventually cave and buy gems.

Iconik.8712:

… they want you to struggle for loot so you eventually cave and buy gems.

Just as a matter of interest – what exactly are you buying on the Gem Store that needs the vast amounts of Gold Converted to Gems Zerg-farmers claim to make? (There are better ways to make Gold by simply ‘playing the game’, imo, but that’s another matter.)

I’ve bought nice Costume skins, new character slots, gathering tools and so forth from the Store. They’re nice to have, but they’re hardly essential – it’s not like you can buy Legendaries, extra stat-points or a big red Win Game button from there.

Sgloomi.4103:

Iconik.8712:

… they want you to struggle for loot so you eventually cave and buy gems.

Just as a matter of interest – what exactly are you buying on the Gem Store that needs the vast amounts of Gold Converted to Gems Zerg-farmers claim to make? (There are better ways to make Gold by simply ‘playing the game’, imo, but that’s another matter.)

I’ve bought nice Costume skins, new character slots, gathering tools and so forth from the Store. They’re nice to have, but they’re hardly essential – it’s not like you can buy Legendaries, extra stat-points or a big red Win Game button from there.

Getting a legendary is an extremely pricey proposition. Especially for Greatswords. You convert gems to gold then buy the T6 mats for the gifts as T6 mats have really bad drop rates. A precursor for a GS is 1400g.

Once again, the case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The situation is pretty simple: failing the event is about 20% more rewarding (for repeat customers) than succeeding. That creates tension between those who want more stuff and those who want to do events (and get credit for LS or regional achievements).

Any time we’ve seen that situation before, a core of farmers go manic trying to optimize the loot/run …and they get angry at anyone with any other goals. ANet’s solution to that in the past is to change the reset timing, the amount of loot-bearing champs that spawn, or otherwise rebalance the rewards so failing is no longer more profitable than succeeding.

This has almost always resulted in fewer rewards per hour, i.e. a kind of nerf.

I’ve always liked this event, one of the more interesting non-world-boss chains. It’s always generated a lot of loot, especially if you can get a large group to do it. It’s a shame that a tiny number of people get so fixated on farming that they can’t see it’s easy to compromise and avoid the nerf. In this case, we could have combined the traditional FGS champ train with this one for about 80% of the loot without ANet needing to intervene at all.

>The situation is pretty simple: failing the event is about 20% more rewarding (for repeat customers) than succeeding. That creates tension between those who want more stuff and those who want to do events (and get credit for LS or regional achievements)

Luckily, video games are 100% voluntary. We had a huge map doing this yesterday for 12+ hours. Every one that was with us was there voluntarily. That is to say, they were OK with the way we were doing it. If they disagreed, they were free to leave and do it their own way.

Iconik.8712:

I cannot stress this enough. There are tons of us that are organized and dedicated to running this daily for several hours a day and doing it right. We run the event, stack up, gets tons of loot and have tons of fun. We complete the event if even one person needs the achievement. If you’re there for LS, you’ll get that too whether it fails or succeeds.

The difference here is this:
If you fail the event the respawn timer is 5 minutes.
If you complete the event the respawn timer is 20 minutes.

When you complete the event you have 20 minutes. So what happens is is that someone tags up and runs champtrain on Drake, Wurm and Troll. We wait for Quaggan Queen and Trio to pop. We do those while we wait for Coil to respawn. Once it respawns, we head there, complete it and repeat.

I absolutely do not see the issue here, other than ANET using the complaints of toxicity in those few maps as an excuse to justify them fixing the event so that we aren’t too lucrative because, again, they want you to struggle for loot so you eventually cave and buy gems.

If all they do is make the failure timer equal to or more than the success timer then you don’t lose out on anything if you are completing the event successfully beyond the ability to intentionally fail and farm the event. I am not trying to start an argument but I am not sure how you can try to justify that failing an event should ever be more profitable than succeeding an event. Does Anet really need to look at the way they are handling the loot system? Of that there can be no doubt, so why not try to spend the time pushing for positive changes to come into the game instead of arguing to try and keep a system that is obviously horribly flawed in it’s current form.

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

I think they just need to change event rewards to be like in dry top (reward chest upon completion), but that would contain the champ boxes for the amount of champions you have killed (or a set amount).
I’d rather see event rewards than champ farming rewards because it actually rewards you for playing the game.

I wasn’t justifying failing the event. We completed the event 98% of the time all day yesterday. Those that complained were free to leave. If you complete the event you have 20 minutes until respawn. In that time there was 100% farming uptime with trio, quaggan and regular champtrain.

Iconik.8712:

I wasn’t justifying failing the event. We completed the event 98% of the time all day yesterday. Those that complained were free to leave. If you complete the event you have 20 minutes until respawn. In that time there was 100% farming uptime with trio, quaggan and regular champtrain.

So then I am not sure what the issue here is, if you were successfully completing the event and the timer for successfully completing the event is not changed then it really does not impact you.

Shivan.9438:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Chris Cleary.8017:

We are already working on a fix for this event chain. In the mean time, please report players that are being overly toxic (chat) during these events for “Verbal Abuse” as this is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

I wonder if Anet will ever learn that it is them who are making the toxic environment…

Players want to farm. It will continue until you either:

A. Ban every player in the game and shut down the game
B. Remove every mob in the game

Maybe figure out what players want and give it to them instead of trying to rule your game with an iron fist of depression.

How about option C?

C. A.net people log into the game unflagged, then stroll around DR or any other capital city and watch as well known trolls (who some have been around since release) continuously break rules in the EULA, TOS and sometimes US law and say with a straight face that it’s not the players who are toxic.

Take a stroll around the world itself and watch map chat then log off and say that you’re not sickened by what’s posted and say that it’s farming a boss or a series of champs over and over that makes the community bad.

I remember playing GW 1 and seeing players hold themselves to high standards and would actually say “Watch your language please.” and people would get in line.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/rulesofconduct.php

When that actually meant something and was upheld by both players and staff.

While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. You will not report players maliciously, or cause them to be investigated without reason.

What happened to that rule being enforced?

You may not post or link to any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive imagery or content.

When communicating in Guild Wars using Global Chat (including, without limitation, server wide chat and use of the whisper command), you may not spam, flood, or make duplicate posts.

Oh.. I know what happened. The age of microtransactions happened and now a trolls money is just as good as someone who wants to play the game in a nice and friendly way.

/report is still in the game and those rules are still in effect. What has changed is that we have so few willing to self police anymore. The reasons for this are varied….

Iconik.8712:

You convert gems to gold then buy the T6 mats for the gifts as T6 mats have really bad drop rates. A precursor for a GS is 1400g.

Yes, but converting Gems you bought with your credit card to Gold is an entirely different matter.

Are you saying that Zerg-farmers farm Gold and convert it to Gems, then convert the Gems back to Gold? I can see how that might work, with the fluctuating exchange-rates – but I honestly can’t imagine many Zerg-farmers have the acumen to do that.

LostBalloon.6423:

Shalloe.4867:

Never did the blix farm but was wondering why was it nerfed? was it blocking progess for peoples story line? or because the event failing was more rewarding to farmers then succeeding and they was giving grief to players for completing the event?

If it was the second then surely they need to take a look at respawn timers for failing on all events and adjust them otherwise the problem is just going to continue to move from event to event until they are all adjusted

I think they just need to change event rewards to be like in dry top (reward chest upon completion), but that would contain the champ boxes for the amount of champions you have killed (or a set amount).
I’d rather see event rewards than champ farming rewards because it actually rewards you for playing the game.

Yep, and it is probably the “easiest” solution available.

Zaxares.5419:

I’ve NEVER seen anyone kill that Grub. >.>

I sat in the valley keep firing a cannon at it for fun After attempting to get a group together to kill it. And then at an enemy zerg that came by and killed it. I got a trait and a few WXP points >__o¿

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Iconik.8712:

I wasn’t justifying failing the event. We completed the event 98% of the time all day yesterday. Those that complained were free to leave. If you complete the event you have 20 minutes until respawn. In that time there was 100% farming uptime with trio, quaggan and regular champtrain.

So then I am not sure what the issue here is, if you were successfully completing the event and the timer for successfully completing the event is not changed then it really does not impact you.

It does affect me because an ANET employee said in this very thread that they’re looking to “fix” the event. Basically, they are trying to “fix” an event that is being completed legitimately. WUT?

Sgloomi.4103:

Iconik.8712:

You convert gems to gold then buy the T6 mats for the gifts as T6 mats have really bad drop rates. A precursor for a GS is 1400g.

Yes, but converting Gems you bought with your credit card to Gold is an entirely different matter.

Are you saying that Zerg-farmers farm Gold and convert it to Gems, then convert the Gems back to Gold? I can see how that might work, with the fluctuating exchange-rates – but I honestly can’t imagine many Zerg-farmers have the acumen to do that.

I’m saying that Anet dislikes lucrative farming and nerfs it because they’d rather you buy gems and convert them to gold to buy what you need instead of farming it.

Iconik.8712:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Iconik.8712:

I wasn’t justifying failing the event. We completed the event 98% of the time all day yesterday. Those that complained were free to leave. If you complete the event you have 20 minutes until respawn. In that time there was 100% farming uptime with trio, quaggan and regular champtrain.

So then I am not sure what the issue here is, if you were successfully completing the event and the timer for successfully completing the event is not changed then it really does not impact you.

It does affect me because an ANET employee said in this very thread that they’re looking to “fix” the event. Basically, they are trying to “fix” an event that is being completed legitimately. WUT?

Obviously I don’t know for sure what they meant by fix, but if I had to guess and if they follow the pattern they did with Blix it will only be fixing the failure timer. You have to understand that while you may be in groups that are completing the event not all maps are functioning this way.

Iconik.8712:

>The situation is pretty simple: failing the event is about 20% more rewarding (for repeat customers) than succeeding. That creates tension between those who want more stuff and those who want to do events (and get credit for LS or regional achievements)

Luckily, video games are 100% voluntary. We had a huge map doing this yesterday for 12+ hours. Every one that was with us was there voluntarily. That is to say, they were OK with the way we were doing it. If they disagreed, they were free to leave and do it their own way.

1. How do you know whether anyone had “any problem” with the way the event was being done? People don’t always say.
2. “They were free to leave and do it their own way” — how was this true? The farming group dominated the map.

In any case, it’s moot: the point is that there are competing incentives and, as a result, ANet’s going to change the way the event works. This would not have happened if the hard-core farmers had voluntarily chosen to give up a fraction of the maximum possible loot. Instead, ANet is going to decide and, based on past experience, we can expect that the max possible will be less than what we have seen to date.

My apologies if this has been covered already: Why fail the event anyway? I’ve run this event dozens and dozens of times and we successfully completed it each time (with a minute or so to spare – i.e. last minute). Once it’s finished, you have just enough time to run a few champs on the map and then complete some inventory management, and Breaking the Ice pops right back up ready to go again.

Just to reiterate: I have never seen this event fail. Ever.

Also, and maybe I’m the exception and not the rule by the looks of some of these posts, but I haven’t seen the toxic behavior that is being described either. I also rarely ever saw it during the Queensdale train when it was a thing. I think there is a significant amount of melodrama and exaggeration going on. To the point I really consider it trolling.

This reminds me of my kids in school. Every time one kid does something wrong in class, the entire class gets punished. Kid acting crazy in the hallway? I KNOW! Lets put the whole class on silent lunch and take away their recess. EVERYONE should pay.

How about the people that actually cause the problems get punished for once.

Contact Arenanet directly about this, please. Nothing good can happen about making it public. People who don’t know about it will start doing it.

And yes, I think failure should result in longer reset times.

Shademehr.1397:

My apologies if this has been covered already: Why fail the event anyway? I’ve run this event dozens and dozens of times and we successfully completed it each time (with a minute or so to spare – i.e. last minute). Once it’s finished, you have just enough time to run a few champs on the map and then complete some inventory management, and Breaking the Ice pops right back up ready to go again.

Just to reiterate: I have never seen this event fail. Ever.

Also, and maybe I’m the exception and not the rule by the looks of some of these posts, but I haven’t seen the toxic behavior that is being described either. I also rarely ever saw it during the Queensdale train when it was a thing. I think there is a significant amount of melodrama and exaggeration going on. To the point I really consider it trolling.

This reminds me of my kids in school. Every time one kid does something wrong in class, the entire class gets punished. Kid acting crazy in the hallway? I KNOW! Lets put the whole class on silent lunch and take away their recess. EVERYONE should pay.

How about the people that actually cause the problems get punished for once.

Failing the event causes the event chain to restart much faster than if it succeeds. (Five minutes for failure vs twenty for success)

As for harassment, I have seen it and on a regular basis. In Coil, in the regular Frostgorge, in EotM, and especially in Queensdale whenever some unsuspecting party of newbies killed a champ and got chewed out for it.

Me, I just want the Finish What You Started achievement and the one event I need is the one that happens when you fail the defense event aka the one that never happens because of the farm now.

This event chain is a pretty nice champ farm, I admit, but I wouldn’t mind if it goes kaput mostly because it interferes with other big goals that people have. Things like the regular Frostgorge Train don’t get in the way of people trying to do Living Story or get achievements, for example. The entirety of Cursed Shore is champions as far as the eye can see. We already have plenty of perfectly good champ farms that have been completely untouched, so it’s not like there isn’t other places to go to have a bag party.

I am sure A-Net has no problems with farming the issue is creating toxicity because purpose failing. Honestly I am very optimistic about the changes that will be made I am sure only the reset timers will be looked to be changed. Sadly not everyone thinks like us @Iconik just yesterday a group was trying to change the way we ran the farm. We had a split for a bit. Luckily the responsible group (us) won that tug-of-war but that won’t always be the case (and in that time that (other) group sent me quite a bit of hate whispers). Sadly sometimes greed overpowers people and they look at gain over others. A-Net understands the issue and they like farmers imo because we give life to zones with our farms be optimistic in the changes and lets try to have faith in A-Net.

I hope the fix Anet is planning is simply to change the timer for failing the event. I’ve been running this chain for the past couple of weeks and I honestly didn’t think people could be so shortsighted as to decide it is better to fail it than complete it. It’s 20 frigging minutes between completed events, you can either go farm some other champs during that time or empty out your bags.

But there ya go, just ran the chain a while ago and the commanders were telling people to leave the last shaman alive, just to restart the whole thing 15 minutes earlier…

Stuff like this makes me lose faith in humanity.

Events in the open world should be generally reworked to have

a) spawned mobs drop no loot at all, and

b) having the mob’s loot being given out as part of the successful event reward once the event is finished.

It seemed that Anet had learned that lesson after the fiasco with Scarlet’s Clockwork Chaos invasions, and they already incorporated it successfully in the new Tequatl and Tripple Worm events. In these events you will never see anyone purposefully failing or stalling (apart from trolls, but that’s a different topic). I am still wondering why they forgot this principle again when they were designing new events (like the events in dry top, where despite having a working event reward system, the spawns do still drop some loot).

My 2 cents.

~MRA

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This would not have happened if the hard-core farmers had voluntarily chosen to give up a fraction of the maximum possible loot.

When designing incentives, you do not assume that “people voluntarily give up a fraction of a possible advantage” since, in practice, this essentially never happens.

Anet needs to step in an fix their incentive structure such that the goals of their different demographics do not compete with each other, but that all parts of the player base always have the same goal even when going for the most selfish route.

~MRA

Mobs dropping loot for farmers curbs inflation. Loot on the trading post sinks gold, it doesn’t create it. When you earn money from loot, you’re not creating gold, it has already been created elsewhere.

Farmers are good for the economy, kitten farmers are bad for the community.

kokiman.2364:

khani.4786:

People have the right to farm and fail events if they want.

Well if that’s the case A.Net should rewrite their ToS.

I stopped running around and doing Events in cursed shore when one time I tried to do an event with some people, apparently that event was supposed to fail. So after some waves, the zerg came and the commander told everyone to just scale the event up. They did that, we died and they just stood there and watched. After the event failed, they left like nothing happened. This was not only sad but also terrifying. Seeing a whole zerg of people just watching you die, I know it’s just a game but still.. geez.

Like it was already said nerfing that event is just a bandaid solution, they’ll find another event and exploit the fail state and they will continue to do that until someone gives them a slap and tells them to stop.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exploit

An exploit is the misuse of a software feature or bug in a way that allows a player to generate in-game benefits without the risk or time expected by the game’s designers. It can involve the use of a third-party program and it includes generating currency, experience, or other things of value to players.

The scaling and both completion states are functioning exactly as developed. When are people going to get that there is no bug being exploited?

I had an awesome experience with this today. There was a massive group who were farming this event on Sea of Sorrows. While the majority wanted to fail the event, there were 3 of us who needed it for the Living Story. The entire group helped us complete the event without so much as a snarky comment.

I hope ANet doesn’t ruin it for groups like this just because of a few bad apples. Ban the bad apples rather than ruining the legit farm.

i, like zoso ( who is an incredible commander and an honest man who it has been my pleasure to farm with) enjoy farming a great deal. i agree with most that failing an event shouldnt reward your more than completing an event, but that isnt the case, so when i lead my groups my regular intention is to fail ( however guilty it makes me feel, im here to get loot for myself and the players kind enough to follow my command). that being said, I ALWAYS ask several times if ANYONE needs to succeed for any reason. if even one single person wants to succeed it, i do. you do not need to complete for LS(you simply have to click totem after event, pass or fail) , only for achievement, but i comply to all requests because i do not want to grief anyone, upset anyone, or in any way hinder them from playing how they want. the problem lies with toxicity, which I do not allow by my zerg. we know people hated blix farmers because they were toxic, not because they farmed. i believe zoso’s proposal is the best ive seen to deal with this type of thing. make the fail timer the same as the respawn timer and everyone wins.

MRA.4758:

a) spawned mobs drop no loot at all, and

I wouldn’t like that.

You know what would totally stop this sort of thing? Making all living story content instanced as it has been for the most part. The open world aspect for things that are specifically story should be converted to instanced storytelling.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

You know what would totally stop this sort of thing? Making all living story content instanced as it has been for the most part. The open world aspect for things that are specifically story should be converted to instanced storytelling.

No thanks. I enjoy how the events mesh with the existing world and allow random people to just show up and get involved. I think it’s one of the things that drew me to this game (and was advertised heavily) when it first jumped onto my radar.

Navi.7142:

MRA.4758:

a) spawned mobs drop no loot at all, and

I wouldn’t like that.

Me neither.

Serious question as the two Guild Wars are the only MMO’s I’ve ever really played: Does this much whining take place for all mmo’s or is Guild Wars a unique situation? I primarily played consoles (all of them) before really getting sucked into GW2 and I swear I didn’t hear this much flaming/negativity/whining/general craziness from any of the games I played. Complaining about free gifts. Fussing because there’s no expansion. Upset because specific game modes aren’t being catered too. Telling other people how to play their game and what is/isn’t right. Even the CoD brofest dudes were more pleasant. I’ve met a lot of really awesome people in this game, but holy moly these forums…[/rant]