Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Yargesh.4965:

phys.7689:

Yargesh.4965:

Gaile Gray.6029:

JackDaniels.1697:

Everybody that hates the NPE is going to take over the discussion after all the fixes have been released I believe. You’re going to see multiple posts by the same people that hate it, and it’s going to seem like a lot more people dislike the new changes, when in reality, it’s just those same people that really want to make their point across. And not that there is anything wrong with posting more than once, it is a discussion after all, but you get my point.

I mean you can see the evidence of it now, with people complaining in one thread over the subject, and then having some of those same people from that thread start up new threads on pretty much the same topic.

I do agree that some minor changes need to happen, but hopefully Anet doesn’t give in to the pressure and make a complete 180 to the NPE, because I believe some of these changes are good for the game.

So I can’t wait to chime in when all the fixes are done. Should be interesting.

I agree with you about this. I think it’s premature to gauge how NPE will play at the current time, because we do know changes are coming.

And yes, you do see some forum members making the same points again and again. That truly is not helpful to the review and discussion, in that the devs would prefer a focused, clear, concise statement rather than realizing “Wait, it’s that same person, saying the same thing for the 19th time.”

Glad that you have pointed out that they are being obvious and the result is negative (for them and the forums in general).

whats your opinion on the new changes, what if anything would you do to make it more attractive/informative for new players of various skill levels, and vets who dont have 1-20 scrolls?

Lol you are funny. I’ll bite though.
I know I have eight level 80s and I am not remotely the target of these updates.
I know I have taken a character from lvl 1-16 after the Sept patch and found the process smooth.
I know that the game is still enjoyable after two years for me.
I think the game could be expanded.
I think it will be.
I think they could improve pr but I think every company in existence could.
I think being personally insulated by a game is similar to being personally insulated by a tree. Smile, nod and move away from people who say that.

so I take this as, you mostly dont care, but find NPE adequate for its goals. fair enough

Yes.

Stars.2179:

Yeah Vayne? Which part of the old system doesn’t work fine? You mean it’s too confusing to pick up cow feed to feed cow? Or do you mean rewarding a skill point for leveling up? Or is it too confusing to unlock a weapon skill by actually USING the said weapon Or is it too confusing to actually be able to jump straight into your personal story at level one?

Actually it’s not just the too hard or too easy question. You’re pulling individual elements from a whole cloth and trying to make that the whole patch. But it’s not the whole patch, it’s the individual elements. Most of the really simple changes were made in the 1-5 areas. Later on in the starter zones the experience is roughly the same.

Pacing before was a problem and rewards were a problem as well. Anet didn’t introduce one type of change, but many to streamline the whole experience. Part of that streamlining was to increase the speed at which you level to 15.

Complaints about there not being any teaching of players go back to the beginning of the game. There have been many discussions about how to better teach players the game. Anyone who frequents the player helping players forum knows very well that some people have problems and not every one of those people come to forums. Some stop playing.

Anet claims to have tested several variations of ways to keep people playing more. If you have evidence that their tests are wrong, I’d love to hear it.

Hi! I stopped playing (other than a couple of holidays) for quite some time, but when I heard about the mechanics updates, I decided to revisit with a new character, new class. Though I have an 80 Necro Charr, I never really played alts. I read up on what was supposed to change via official means, but didn’t read forums until later.

Here was my experience creating a Sylvan Guardian (to 26, 100% completion of Caledon and my Personal Story so far).

First and foremost, I LOVE the level up screen, and I LOVE the arrow suggesting something I can do next. These are very important to me, and give me a sense of direction. That said, some of those pop-ups are really anemic, and don’t really give me any information about what they’re introducing me to. Telling me which stats I get boosted has actually led me to understand what my class’s primary stats are, which I didn’t understand on my Necro until well into playing, so, thank you for that, huge difference. As a noob, it’s hard to figure out what gear to pick up to do your best in your new class.

I forgot how very, very tiny your bag space is, even when I threw silver at getting 8-slot bags on the TP. I read about how you were supposed to sell things on the TP (as you go) instead of at a merchant, and that helped a bit. I’ve never bought bags or bank space, so, it’s tough when you get all these things you can’t do anything with, at first.

Speaking of merchants, I also forgot about how frustrating it is that all merchants are described the same on the map, just [merchant]. If I want to know where to pick up food or salvage kits, I have to wander around talking to every nameless, clkitten dude until I see the right one.

I remember how the first time I played, I didn’t know about salvaging, and didn’t understand why I’d want to, because I had no idea about crafting. Crafting is really hidden out of the way, and is one thing I really wish there was more direction on besides a pop-up saying “hey, maybe think about it?” A quest to come to merchant quarters in town at X level, maybe.

I leveled up via personal story, hearts and events along the way, and weaponsmithing / cheffery. It went pretty fast, and the only serious frustration was a skill point under the sylvan jumping puzzle that wouldn’t activate. I spent an hour trying to determine if certain event quests had to be at the right position, because it wouldn’t tell me that I wasn’t at a* high enough level*. Eventually, I remembered that I didn’t have any skill points, yet.

I did seem to notice some herky-jerky power issues where I’d kill everything in seconds one level, and struggle later, but I just chalked it up to being a weaponsmith and crafting my own weapons. As I got into my 20’s, I started saying to myself, “where are the traits? Weren’t those supposed to start showing up long ago?” I still don’t think I understand where and when we get them, I just think it’s poorly explained in-game. It seems like an awfully long time to wait before even hearing about them, subjectively speaking.

During the PS, I seriously thought I was returning to Caithe’s house in the grove each time, and I was wondering … when am I going to see my own instance? It was only after the twins mentioned “my garden” that I realized that I had ALREADY BEEN to my home. The lack of pizzazz about my home is actually one of the most frustrating things for me, but I really wish the game was more clear about what it is, what it should mean to me, and why I should return there, like, ever. I played during beta, and I was SO psyched for what the home instance could represent, but I can’t even talk to people who live there, they just say “hi.” I explored after I saw I had a skill point from a krait spire (it has been awhile!), and left feeling bored with my home.

I’m enjoying the new experience overall, but I’m concerned about what I hear about the personal story, because I don’t WvW. I don’t have a guild (they busted up long ago). I don’t particularly care about the living story. I care about making a unique character and going through that personal growth, “making house” and my individual identity. Making the personal choices (heart/crown/fist) don’t seem to make any difference that I could ever tell, either, which makes me feel like I’m living through the Mass Effect 3 ending – making decisions that ultimately lead to exactly the same conclusion.

PS I am absolutely hoarding my few transmutations – I used one to get my well-deserved burning book backpack, and the other two sit there. I’m sad that I don’t feel like I can “look” the way I want during the leveling process without paying dollars, even though I have the skins unlocked, but if I use a transmute on a weapon I’m replacing in 5 levels? Totally not worth it.

I hope my perspective helps, sorry it’s so long!

Unlock quests were added because players asked for it. They had a system like it in Guild Wars 1 for skills.

Don’t try to blame players for the trait unlock system. That is NOT on us. At the bare minimum we would have done it better, allowing you to unlock all adept traits by level 11 if you focused on them, all the Master ones by level 40, and all the Grandmaster ones by level 60 (and obviously the level at which you unlock each tier would not have been pushed back). All level 60-80 unlocks would be for the “new” traits that got added after launch.

Long story short, having easy access to a variety of traits makes this game SO much more fun, and lacking that access makes the game SO much more dull.

How would you put in a system that allows for newer and less experienced players to have the time they needed to learn things while making it easier for experienced players to speed up the process and have more freedom?

One, new players NEVER needed “more time” to learn the game. Time was never at issue. What they needed was more training, more explicit “here is the system and how to use it,” like the new dodge trainer. Just taking the existing ability roll-out and spreading it out over more levels solves nothing. If their goal is to make the game easier to understand, the solution has nothing to do with spreading the skills out more, and more about adding tutorials.

For example, instead of moving the downed state to level 5 and only giving you half the abilities, they could put it at level 2, which you hit when you reach the tutorial boss (rather than after), and then the tutorial boss is guaranteed to one-shot you at least once, putting you into downed state, but then leaves you alone, while a message pops up highlighting the downed state options, and then after about thirty seconds to a minute you are auto-rallied. Problem solved.

No need to jump at each other’s throats now. I do agree, some sort of tutorial instance explaining what Guild Wars does differently would be nice (hello, combo fields!), but to take it so far that you remove the very thing you’re trying to explain is almost reaching the point of hilarity if it didn’t feel like I’m watching a car crash.

I’ve just seen the changes made: well done.
I greatly appreciate new level-gating (13, 17 and 19 are fine for utility). I’m terrible happy you took our feedbacks into account, it’s a huge step forward and it helps rehabilitate a feeling of trust from most of the playerbase.

You’ll see: I’m 100% sure newcomers will enjoy the game way more than they were supposed to with the 9/9 patch

Stars.2179:

Vayne.8563:

The old system works fine for you. Colin was quite definitely sure that it wasn’t good enough after having tested it

And by tested it you mean a program team doing their job half hearted and actually COPY AND PASTE the chinese codes AND a QA team that doesn’t actually do their job by playing it but instead sitting a table doing thought experiment?

They didn’t test the build. People tested various options for the game. Not this specific build. From the info they got from tests they produced this build. If you’re waiting for me to disagree that the build is buggy, you’ll be waiting a long time. It’s obviously buggy.

But that doesn’t mean that the changes made aren’t best for the game. The testing we’re talking about wasn’t testing this build for bugs. The testing we’re talking about is testing players for reactions to how the game plays at low levels.

Vayne.8563:

Anet claims to have tested several variations of ways to keep people playing more. If you have evidence that their tests are wrong, I’d love to hear it.

The current entire forum for the last week and in the future constant complaints about these changes IS evident.

You don’t do THOUGHT experiment on these changes and make these changes.

There WAS NOT a CDI about these changes. That was the problem!

Maybe if they pay attention and actually do their job correctly there wouldn’t be these problems.

Stars.2179:

Vayne.8563:

Anet claims to have tested several variations of ways to keep people playing more. If you have evidence that their tests are wrong, I’d love to hear it.

The current entire forum for the last week and in the future constant complaints about these changes IS evident.

You don’t do THOUGHT experiment on these changes and make these changes.

There WAS NOT a CDI about these changes. That was the problem!

Maybe if they pay attention and actually do their job correctly there wouldn’t be these problems.

Seems to me most of the complaining has withdrawn, one week after the patch. So I’m not sure why this is such a huge issue. Some people will still complain of course, but the pendulum, if you haven’t noticed, is swinging back.

Perhaps Anet is operating under the old adage that it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission. lol

At any rate, they are not gaining (and retaining) new players with this kind of NPE.
If they do I’m glad that these newbs will be gated for a long time to us veterans.

Stars.2179:

At any rate, they are not gaining (and retaining) new players with this kind of NPE.
If they do I’m glad that these newbs will be gated for a long time to us veterans.

I’m not sure why you say that, but I’m pretty sure that this NPE will be successful in keeping new players. The future will tell it’s own story, no matter what either of us predict though.

I think everyone else has echoed my sentiments when it comes to being a veteran player forced to have his hand held for the 9th character I have created over a 2 year period…

The only thing I can really add is this:

I REALLY miss being able to feed Farmer Diah’s cows. :-(

Vayne.8563:

Traced.3495:

I haven’t read the discussion, I don’t really want to spend any more time with this. But my problem is the existence of level gating and unlock quests/requirements. Tiered utility skills, traits since april and this new player experience all are incluced.
Those are just not something I want to ever experience for any reason, and it’s even more jarring when things are changed in the middle of things.
I loved the freedom so much.

Okay but most of the things that are gated after the patch were gated already before the patch. People who hate gating so much should have been complaining before the patch, not just after.

Weren’t there multiple complaints regarding this prior the patch?

Malkavian.4516:

Weren’t there multiple complaints regarding this prior the patch?

Do you mean the traits or the other stuff which was already gated? Because traits were complained about a lot, yes. Other stuff, not so much.

Malkavian.4516:

Vayne.8563:

Traced.3495:

I haven’t read the discussion, I don’t really want to spend any more time with this. But my problem is the existence of level gating and unlock quests/requirements. Tiered utility skills, traits since april and this new player experience all are incluced.
Those are just not something I want to ever experience for any reason, and it’s even more jarring when things are changed in the middle of things.
I loved the freedom so much.

Okay but most of the things that are gated after the patch were gated already before the patch. People who hate gating so much should have been complaining before the patch, not just after.

Weren’t there multiple complaints regarding this prior the patch?

I’ve never seen a single complaint that slot skills unlocked at certain levels and I’ve never seen a complaint that traits didn’t appear until level 11 or that you couldn’t get your first till level 15. I never saw a single complaint about weapon swapping coming in at level 7.

I did see complaints about changes to gates, such as the trait system, but not that things were gated in the first place. Your utility skills and your elite skills have always been gated. But I don’t remember seeing anyone say you should get your elite as soon as you create your character (which is what no gating would mean).

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

I know where you’re coming from but that will never be a problem. First, a new player won’t buy a salvage kit that is more worth than their low level rune. If they do buy the cheapest, there’s a low chance to even recover upgrades. Still, I understand when it comes to the WvW exotic gear.

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Good point. This reminds me: I have noticed through leveling a character from 20 something to 80 since the patch that the gear pieces handed out are most likely buggy; some of them are non-salvageable, while others are. It is inconsistent and it looks like whatever system they use to generate the reward items is mislabeling them at random as non-salvageable.

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

I think that this is completely right. If nothing else, having items in your inventory you have to delete just feels horrid. Even if it had a small merchant price it would be better.

A wild “Changes Coming to the NPE” thread appears! You ran out of endurance and cannot attack.

Vayne.8563:

Seems to me most of the complaining has withdrawn, one week after the patch. So I’m not sure why this is such a huge issue. Some people will still complain of course, but the pendulum, if you haven’t noticed, is swinging back.

For a whole week, people have provided ANet with extensive feedback.

For a whole week, people have been creating separate threads, each about a personal experience (because nobody likes megathreads where you get lost on page 2!), receiving similar feedback from other players from similar threads and defence from the ever-present forum’s White mANetle.

For a whole week, people have been wondering what has actually been heard and what not, what is a bug and what not, and had to keep repeating their criticism over and over again to counter the force of the same people from White mANetle who kept repeating the same “everything is awesome” in every thread they saw.

After a week, people got sick and tired of it, they ran out of will and had no desire to repeat the same things again and again. Someone left the forum, someone stopped reading the threads, someone left the game. The White mANetle stayed, feeling that the victory is near and the “toxicity” is finally being driven away.

After a week, a “Changes Coming to the NPE” thread finally appears. The White mANetle says that everything is fine and that people are getting confused by the amount of dissatisfied people because having to read forum names is overwhelming; red post in the thread agrees that repeating your feedback is baaad – missing the point that for a week that very feedback had to be repeated over and over again without being acknowledged and because it had to be repeated to counter the forum defence forces.

So yeeeah, after a week, “the pendulum, if you haven’t noticed, is swinging back”… if you avert your eyes from the facts that people are not only sick and tired of repeating the same things, but also told to stop posting their negative feedback, and only the most stoic people still care to write and oppose the White mANetle which are now the ones claiming to officially representing the “vocal majority”.

Now, to keep this post constructive, I’ll quote my tl;dr of the patch, because I have no idea whether it got noticed in the hundreds of other threads or not:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Highlights of my view on the leveling changes:

Best:

• Rewards. Rewards are always good, but only if they’re something new, not if that’s something you take away from someone and then present as a “reward” back. So, a trinket or a booster is a good reward; unlocking downed skills is a bad reward.

Worst:

• Weapon skill gating. Learning skills for each weapon one by one was the most intuitive, best and exciting feature when I got this game – and I never played a serious RPG or an MMO before! I killed mobs and searched for events to kill more to check what that next half-learned skill with a cool name did… then I searched for new weapons and did it again, because it was fun, and fun is the best reward I can get from a game. This should definitely be brought back.

My personal “fix-it-fast-and-make-it-better”:

• Stop calling “Asura Gates”, “Trading Post” and other core features “rewards”! That’s a very large part of that widespread misconception. Instead, turn them into hints and clearly name them as such, even if it stays in the same reward pop-up; like, “HINT: Trading Posts are now displayed on your minimap! You can do X and Y with them! Check it out if you haven’t done so yet!”, not “You have unlocked Trading Post, yay!”

As for leveling experience in practice… I can only say that I never felt like making alts after the Traits update, but I’m still leveling a warrior and it is at level 30-something at the moment. About 5 of those were from Tomes from PvP; and even though I don’t really like PvP, I think I’ll be doing more of it because after 3 lvl 80s, doing all the things over and over again to get to 80 and start actually playing the things I like – Dry Top, Orr, Dungeons/Fractals – is really, really boring. The trait system make it worse; the new level-gatings – even further. Instead of “learning something new” and altering my build, I’m just grinding monsters and hearts over and over again with the most efficient weapon set, until I can finally do something new and fun if I happen to unlock some traits… and if I am allowed to use them at all.

And by the way, do you know what I’m leveling that new warrior alt for instead of using an older one? To gear it with Leyline weapons and armour. And if I drop it now, these money won’t be spend by me and people like me anymore.

Cheers.

Preyar.6783:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

I know where you’re coming from but that will never be a problem. First, a new player won’t buy a salvage kit that is more worth than their low level rune. If they do buy the cheapest, there’s a low chance to even recover upgrades. Still, I understand when it comes to the WvW exotic gear.

the gear rewards continue until you hit level 80 most likely. poster in another thread confirmed level 33.
imagine you put get strength runes in some gear at 60ish and cant get them out.
Its really bad design to include these items that are pretty unclear whether they are salvageable in the hands of first time players.
heck its always bad, but its actually increasing players access to these rare cases, to boot, they look almost exactly the same as normal items. Its not easily clear that they are different.

Rogue.7856:

Behellagh.1468:

New Patch is out.

For you gate haters.

• Utility slot skills 2 and 3 now unlock at levels 17 and 19, respectively.
• The elite slot skill now unlocks at level 31.
• Elementalist F4 commands, mesmer F3 commands, and guardian F3 commands now unlock at level 17.
• Mesmer F4 commands and engineer F4 commands now unlock at level 19.
• Skill Challenges are now visible at level 13 instead of level 15.

Also a number of bugs including the diving goggles fixed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/4420127

This isn’t a fix. I’m even more disappointed they didn’t revert now… as it seems they are only slowly moving towards the goal. If you can make the goggles account bound, make all these account bound after your first character… or hell your first 2… I wouldn’t mind going through this system once or twice and never having to deal with it again, but your forcing us to deal with it indefinitely and there is no reason for that… there really isn’t.

This was a change that should have been done at release or not at all… especially not after 2 years.

Don’t you get that they aren’t ever going to revert this. Tweak it here and there but it’s never going back to the way it was no matter how much noise some of you make. This was done to retain new players who in the past left only after a few weeks because they felt they were dropped into the deep end and told to swim. Doesn’t matter if games like Wildstar is 10x worse in terms of complexity dropped on the player, but this is was the result of play testing in both the US AND China and not just China.

There may be more tweaks to come with the LS but reversal isn’t happening. The forum equivalent of pouting, holding your breath, stamping your feet isn’t going to change it. You’ve seen how well that’s worked with protesting the new trait system.

Too many people complained that the game was too “easy”. Some asked for traits to be discovered as they were in GW. Gee, not that easy anymore with most of the traits locked up now right?

The latest fix sounds nice to me. I’ll be trying a new character soon to see how it works out now they got rid of my main gripes with the NPE. Maybe I’ll try a mesmer for my guilds portal needs.

Voww , this is great thank you ArenaNet :-)

I`ve made a “long” (well for me at least) thread about some of the changes, just asking for clarification on how these are supposed to be educational, if their pupose was intelligent and natural design in the first place:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NPE-Constructive-Questions/first#post4414469
There one player (Saune) linked to her thread, with a similiar direction, which might even be a bit more fleshed out.

Overall in terms of feedback I am mostly confused about some of these changes.
It feels like you do not want players to fail in any way at the start, which is kinda weird, if you think about that this is already a rather casual game and that it is still missing “hard content” (in that regard it alrady has hard content, but there are too many ways around it (stacking, exploiting, etc…), that it is questionable to see it as such.)

Personal Story Chunks
Overall my main gripe at the moment in terms of what i have played of the NPE (I was lucky (?) to have a lvl 40 and 50 around), is that the changes to the personal story are kinda disapointing.
By that I mean that we get them in chunks now (which might or not migh make some sense).
Normaly they changed things up. I leveled here and there and every two or three lvl I got a new piece of the story as an reward.
It was fun and kept me going, since the story itself was also a very nice lvl-boost and got me some sweet piece of equipment at the end.

With that gone now, I have to strugle through 10 lvl to get the next chunk, which might not have the same lvl boost as an extra insentive.

While i now have some insentive to go into other zones and do stuff there, it feels like I am missing something now.

Cramped right side
I leveled up two level over the past few days (didn`t play alot I have to admit, since I feel burned out a bit), but overall it feels like I have to click too much now… does that make sense?

There are now soo many things in the right corner, that I have to click, it feels kinda cramped.
- lvl up, click
- heart done, click
- got a chest, click
- etc…

Some are nice, but it starts to feel wierd there. More so with all the other infos which pile up there.
- Items
- Unlocks
- AP thingies (which I somehow cannot click anymore. Please make it interactive again and let me see what i did)
- the things i mentioned before

I feel it is too much there now, though that is nothing that is actually part of the NPE if i think about it.

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

actually at launch you could salvage and sell karma gear, they changed it in a hotfix because they felt people were turning karma into currency (it was actually a really crappy rate, but when the game first came out a few silver was a big deal)

these sort of changes have not gone through a thorough review, at the very least they should make it extremely obvious that items like this are different than other items.
they should clearly say not salvageable, and they should warn you when you try to put an upgrade in.

It has always been extremely poorly messaged, (like the white items that you can get from the TP which cannot be salvaged, but you dont know until you try them) and one would think they would not increase this problem, with a focus on new players. If you look in your bags after doing some adventuring its highly unlikely you remember exactly which green axe you got from leveling and which ones you got from adventuring.

For a system that is supposed to alleviate complexity, and make things very clear to new players, these items are not it.

hey they just told me i can salvage, why cant i salvage some items that look the same as others?

bad design.

Gaile Gray.6029:

JackDaniels.1697:

Everybody that hates the NPE is going to take over the discussion after all the fixes have been released I believe. You’re going to see multiple posts by the same people that hate it, and it’s going to seem like a lot more people dislike the new changes, when in reality, it’s just those same people that really want to make their point across. And not that there is anything wrong with posting more than once, it is a discussion after all, but you get my point.

I mean you can see the evidence of it now, with people complaining in one thread over the subject, and then having some of those same people from that thread start up new threads on pretty much the same topic.

I do agree that some minor changes need to happen, but hopefully Anet doesn’t give in to the pressure and make a complete 180 to the NPE, because I believe some of these changes are good for the game.

So I can’t wait to chime in when all the fixes are done. Should be interesting.

I agree with you about this. I think it’s premature to gauge how NPE will play at the current time, because we do know changes are coming.

And yes, you do see some forum members making the same points again and again. That truly is not helpful to the review and discussion, in that the devs would prefer a focused, clear, concise statement rather than realizing “Wait, it’s that same person, saying the same thing for the 19th time.”

Hi, Caile Gray. Maybe you should show on the forum how many ppl give +1 to any post to see (i guess you can see but we don’t) that these players aren’t alone in the opinion? And it wil be +1 of only ppl reading the forum… And how many will not try to say because they know nothing (you won’t bring all back i guess) will be changed? Except small fixes. I feel myself very bad about what’s going on and just can’t find an answer on one question: Why do devs change what works well and what players like?
Maybe it’s better to bring something new?
Is it all for us? NO.
Thanks.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

To be honest, I never liked those either. lol

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

actually at launch you could salvage and sell karma gear, they changed it in a hotfix because they felt people were turning karma into currency (it was actually a really crappy rate, but when the game first came out a few silver was a big deal)

these sort of changes have not gone through a thorough review, at the very least they should make it extremely obvious that items like this are different than other items.
they should clearly say not salvageable, and they should warn you when you try to put an upgrade in.

It has always been extremely poorly messaged, (like the white items that you can get from the TP which cannot be salvaged, but you dont know until you try them) and one would think they would not increase this problem, with a focus on new players. If you look in your bags after doing some adventuring its highly unlikely you remember exactly which green axe you got from leveling and which ones you got from adventuring.

For a system that is supposed to alleviate complexity, and make things very clear to new players, these items are not it.

hey they just told me i can salvage, why cant i salvage some items that look the same as others?

bad design.

Thats a whole other bag, and how it worked 1+ years ago is irrelevant.

I agree that there should be some sort of warning on non salvagable gear (although you can remove upgrades from it, just not by conventional means)

But non salvagable non sellable gear actually follow the rule for such items and pieces that are salvagable break the rule.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

actually at launch you could salvage and sell karma gear, they changed it in a hotfix because they felt people were turning karma into currency (it was actually a really crappy rate, but when the game first came out a few silver was a big deal)

these sort of changes have not gone through a thorough review, at the very least they should make it extremely obvious that items like this are different than other items.
they should clearly say not salvageable, and they should warn you when you try to put an upgrade in.

It has always been extremely poorly messaged, (like the white items that you can get from the TP which cannot be salvaged, but you dont know until you try them) and one would think they would not increase this problem, with a focus on new players. If you look in your bags after doing some adventuring its highly unlikely you remember exactly which green axe you got from leveling and which ones you got from adventuring.

For a system that is supposed to alleviate complexity, and make things very clear to new players, these items are not it.

hey they just told me i can salvage, why cant i salvage some items that look the same as others?

bad design.

Thats a whole other bag, and how it worked 1+ years ago is irrelevant.

I agree that there should be some sort of warning on non salvagable gear (although you can remove upgrades from it, just not by conventional means)

But non salvagable non sellable gear actually follow the rule for such items and pieces that are salvagable break the rule.

tell me what exactly the rule is, and i will test it for consistency.

Behellagh.1468:

Don’t you get that they aren’t ever going to revert this. Tweak it here and there but it’s never going back to the way it was no matter how much noise some of you make. This was done to retain new players who in the past left only after a few weeks because they felt they were dropped into the deep end and told to swim. Doesn’t matter if games like Wildstar is 10x worse in terms of complexity dropped on the player, but this is was the result of play testing in both the US AND China and not just China.

There may be more tweaks to come with the LS but reversal isn’t happening. The forum equivalent of pouting, holding your breath, stamping your feet isn’t going to change it. You’ve seen how well that’s worked with protesting the new trait system.

Too many people complained that the game was too “easy”. Some asked for traits to be discovered as they were in GW. Gee, not that easy anymore with most of the traits locked up now right?

I hope more people understand this. The NPE changes were not made for veteran players. We have level 80 characters so we “survived” the previous NPE. These changes are made for all those people who didn’t made it through the previous NPE. After 2 years most gamers that wanted to start playing GW2 already did. So ArenaNet has to find another public to sell the game to.

In a way the more we veteran players are complaining the more ArenaNet has achieved their goal. I think it is better to focus on the parts of the new NPE that aren’t working for veteran players and can be changed without removing the NPE for new players. Like making certain unlocks account bound. Exactly what ArenaNet did with the last patch. And keep sending bug reports when things are obviously bugged.

Maybe after the dust has settled ArenaNet will start a CDI about gated content. I really like to see changes to the traits unlock system they made this Spring. And after a few weeks of playing with the new NPE we can probably point out some level requirements that did not really worked out the way it should be. It will be a long term process. But that is software development always.

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

actually at launch you could salvage and sell karma gear, they changed it in a hotfix because they felt people were turning karma into currency (it was actually a really crappy rate, but when the game first came out a few silver was a big deal)

these sort of changes have not gone through a thorough review, at the very least they should make it extremely obvious that items like this are different than other items.
they should clearly say not salvageable, and they should warn you when you try to put an upgrade in.

It has always been extremely poorly messaged, (like the white items that you can get from the TP which cannot be salvaged, but you dont know until you try them) and one would think they would not increase this problem, with a focus on new players. If you look in your bags after doing some adventuring its highly unlikely you remember exactly which green axe you got from leveling and which ones you got from adventuring.

For a system that is supposed to alleviate complexity, and make things very clear to new players, these items are not it.

hey they just told me i can salvage, why cant i salvage some items that look the same as others?

bad design.

Thats a whole other bag, and how it worked 1+ years ago is irrelevant.

I agree that there should be some sort of warning on non salvagable gear (although you can remove upgrades from it, just not by conventional means)

But non salvagable non sellable gear actually follow the rule for such items and pieces that are salvagable break the rule.

tell me what exactly the rule is, and i will test it for consistency.

karma gear, rewards/awarded gear, www (badge) gear

Gaile Gray.6029:

JackDaniels.1697:

Everybody that hates the NPE is going to take over the discussion after all the fixes have been released I believe. You’re going to see multiple posts by the same people that hate it, and it’s going to seem like a lot more people dislike the new changes, when in reality, it’s just those same people that really want to make their point across. And not that there is anything wrong with posting more than once, it is a discussion after all, but you get my point.

I mean you can see the evidence of it now, with people complaining in one thread over the subject, and then having some of those same people from that thread start up new threads on pretty much the same topic.

I do agree that some minor changes need to happen, but hopefully Anet doesn’t give in to the pressure and make a complete 180 to the NPE, because I believe some of these changes are good for the game.

So I can’t wait to chime in when all the fixes are done. Should be interesting.

I agree with you about this. I think it’s premature to gauge how NPE will play at the current time, because we do know changes are coming.

And yes, you do see some forum members making the same points again and again. That truly is not helpful to the review and discussion, in that the devs would prefer a focused, clear, concise statement rather than realizing “Wait, it’s that same person, saying the same thing for the 19th time.”

I don’t want to rain on your parade, but usually, it’s not the same person saying the same thing for the 19th time. There are MULTIPLE people saying “rollback the PS.” You have to learn to listen to important feedback that’s being said by multiple players.

Yes, most of them don’t say it in the nicest way possible, but when there are those who do, and many of them, then you realize you have a problem on your hands.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

another thread just reminded me.

Non sellable/salvageable gear is horrible. You should not give any one items that break the rules of all other items, and especially not new players.

You should be familiarizing them with game mechanics, not these weird exceptions that dont follow the rules.
What if people put a rune in one of these items? they are completely wasted.

I really think you should eliminate this whole class of items, or make it into its own item class which doesnt accept upgrades, and reccomends throwing destroying it on use.

short version, dont give, or encourage new players to get any type of gear that is not salvageable/npcable. It causes more confusion at some point.

Since a LOT of items actually breaks this supposed rule (which of course is not any kind of rule, in fact it follows the rule from previous versions of the game and “awarded items” first one you receive as a part of CHARACTER CREATION)

Earliest karma vedors sell this kind of gear also (since launch), and www, and temple gear…

actually at launch you could salvage and sell karma gear, they changed it in a hotfix because they felt people were turning karma into currency (it was actually a really crappy rate, but when the game first came out a few silver was a big deal)

these sort of changes have not gone through a thorough review, at the very least they should make it extremely obvious that items like this are different than other items.
they should clearly say not salvageable, and they should warn you when you try to put an upgrade in.

It has always been extremely poorly messaged, (like the white items that you can get from the TP which cannot be salvaged, but you dont know until you try them) and one would think they would not increase this problem, with a focus on new players. If you look in your bags after doing some adventuring its highly unlikely you remember exactly which green axe you got from leveling and which ones you got from adventuring.

For a system that is supposed to alleviate complexity, and make things very clear to new players, these items are not it.

hey they just told me i can salvage, why cant i salvage some items that look the same as others?

bad design.

Thats a whole other bag, and how it worked 1+ years ago is irrelevant.

I agree that there should be some sort of warning on non salvagable gear (although you can remove upgrades from it, just not by conventional means)

But non salvagable non sellable gear actually follow the rule for such items and pieces that are salvagable break the rule.

tell me what exactly the rule is, and i will test it for consistency.

karma gear, rewards/awarded gear, www (badge) gear

rewards/awarded gear are sometimes salvageable, some times not, last two story rewards were salvageable.
my guess is right now, rewards specifically from leveling up are unsellable/unsalvageable, however, if it came in a container you got from leveling up, it is salvageabe.
also, some items that are not tradeable and salvageable, are able to traded on the trading post, while others are not, for that i can find no consistent rule.

all in all, probably fairly confusing to most people. And not good for npe imo

Gaile Gray.6029:

And yes, you do see some forum members making the same points again and again. That truly is not helpful to the review and discussion, in that the devs would prefer a focused, clear, concise statement rather than realizing “Wait, it’s that same person, saying the same thing for the 19th time.”

And I would love to know when the folks at ANet will be done with these changes.
That way when I list out my points I won’t be caught in any “still pending” traps.

Haters are going to continue to hate. But for the vast majority that this was just a shocking thing. I am glad to see it FINALLY calming down, and I am actually honored that ANet took the development time to sit back, rethink something on the fly and tweak it as needed. Generally I think the NPE is an all around good and I am very happy to see all of the “Account” unlocks now working properly and that new things were added making it ever-easier to continue being my alt-o-holic self. Not that I ever intended to stop Its just nice that its more smooth now.

anzenketh.3759:

Yes it is a matter of perception.

And that’s all that matters.

After about level 7 or 8 I felt it getting slow myself. I know however that is not due to the level gate but my impatient attitude of moving along with the story. I wish there was more story so we could unlock a chapter every 5 levels.

It has everything to do with anti-alt level-gating, removed content and a generally poor, restrictive, insulting, hand-holding approach to the early game.

I keep on seeing people recommend. “Well why don’t you add a expanded tutorial instance.” When the answer is fairly simple. They don’t want to front-load the player with information.

It ain’t that much information, dude/lady. I’m a pretty well-read guy, but I’m average at best as a gamer, and I found GW2 fairly straightforward and simple even in the mess of beta.

Do I agree with everything they have implemented. No. I personally think that weapon skill unlocked should be done as you use them. This I find taught the profession more then just unlocking a skill. The current method only teaches one of many weapons for a given profession.

So we agree on one thing at least. My last straw with this sordid update was when I swapped over to my new mesmer and found the pistol I equipped last time suddenly locked and unusable.

They implemented the system to make leveling a reward. This is good. However the first 5 levels go by so fast I don’t think they need that many rewards.

I have yet to feel “rewarded” by any of this—quite the opposite, actually, especially when you get stuff you aren’t even allowed to use yet, because “Offhand use requires level 7.”

The system is needed. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Maybe a system, but not this one.

Paradox.1380:

Haters are going to continue to hate. But for the vast majority that this was just a shocking thing. I am glad to see it FINALLY calming down, and I am actually honored that ANet took the development time to sit back, rethink something on the fly and tweak it as needed. Generally I think the NPE is an all around good and I am very happy to see all of the “Account” unlocks now working properly and that new things were added making it ever-easier to continue being my alt-o-holic self. Not that I ever intended to stop Its just nice that its more smooth now.

I usually agree with what you say, but I really don’t like using the word “haters” to describe people who don’t like the game. It’s no better than them trying to dismiss our opinion by calling us white knights. People hate this game for a reason, and often it’s a legitimate reason to them.

In general, though, I think most of the population will be mollified by these changes, and those who aren’t probably didn’t like the game’s direction that much to begin with.

Atlas.9704:

Gaile Gray.6029:

And yes, you do see some forum members making the same points again and again. That truly is not helpful to the review and discussion, in that the devs would prefer a focused, clear, concise statement rather than realizing “Wait, it’s that same person, saying the same thing for the 19th time.”

And I would love to know when the folks at ANet will be done with these changes.
That way when I list out my points I won’t be caught in any “still pending” traps.

The thing, if anything, that mistifies me the most is not only who, when and where thought several of the changes involved in the NPE would be benefitial at all.
If the developers would enjoy a “focused, clear, concise statement”, it would really befit them to share their actual trains of thought with the community more than “This makes no sense, but YOU asked for it! So we did it!”
When?
Who asked for these things?
Oh don’t you get me wrong, I am sure someone, somewhere must have gone “Boy, I wish Orr Personal Storyline was butchered to the point it made no sense whatsoever.”, but perhaps some actual statements from the development team that don’t include “We made tallies with 10k players that somehow don’t reflect most people’s opinions in the slightest in order to make these changes.” as to why changes actually happen would lead to people making less rantings, and more fruitful progress.

Just chiming in to say I was happy that my NPE ele could slot an elite skill after the update last night (she’s currently at level 37 and has a handful of traits unlocked by happenstance but only one trait slot open, so humbug on that), and also to reiterate for the 20th (or so) time: save the cows and golems and sylvan hounds and all the other fun things that NPE de-fun-ded, plz. /e salute

ps: will be back later to remind you again about the cows.

Well here we are 1 week later.

Is there a full, explicit, detailed guide / list / map to what the NPE is supposed to be?

There have been a few things tweaked or fixed, but we still don’t know what is intended and what is bugged for certain. Some things that were changed in the various patches we can assume to be working as intended now but not everything was touched. So does that mean more changes are coming or are the remaining things working as intended?

I would really like all of the ‘miscommunications’, ‘bugs’ and unintended after affects to be cleared up.

A direct level by level manual explicitly explaining what is unlocked, what is gained, what the rewards should be etc., would be extremely helpful to this conversation.

Anet must know what they intended to have happen at these levels, and it was supposed to be in the game correctly last week so why won’t you (Anet) just tell us. I know they don’t discuss future / current development, but this is live and affecting the game and the players right this very second. Are they saying they can’t discuss the live game?

This along with what is actually level gated and what is just explained at certain levels would help us understand the vision of the NPE tremendously.

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Trouble is, many of us existing players actually like complexity. That’s what keeps us making alts, keeps us trying new builds…

The NPE works directly against this. The trait change works directly against this.

There’s a fundamental mismatch here, and I’d love to hear ArenaNet talk about it. Or even acknowledge it…

Absolutely, but it’s worse than just the NPE because the NPE is just another setback in a series of mistakes when it comes to PVE complexity, PVE balance is at an all time low what with the ongoing problems with condition stacking no real healer role and everything being immune (not resistant) to CC, add to that the use of Gold for traits from the previous feature patch in an already terribly out of balance inflating economy with things like DR and too much RNG for everything useful, and then add this to the mix and you’ve got a reason for people to come here to complain. People keep wrongly trying to portray the so called “whiners” but no one is actually looking at why they are complaining and doing something positive about it.

Vayne.8563:

Paradox.1380:

Haters are going to continue to hate. But for the vast majority that this was just a shocking thing. I am glad to see it FINALLY calming down, and I am actually honored that ANet took the development time to sit back, rethink something on the fly and tweak it as needed. Generally I think the NPE is an all around good and I am very happy to see all of the “Account” unlocks now working properly and that new things were added making it ever-easier to continue being my alt-o-holic self. Not that I ever intended to stop Its just nice that its more smooth now.

I usually agree with what you say, but I really don’t like using the word “haters” to describe people who don’t like the game. It’s no better than them trying to dismiss our opinion by calling us white knights. People hate this game for a reason, and often it’s a legitimate reason to them.

In general, though, I think most of the population will be mollified by these changes, and those who aren’t probably didn’t like the game’s direction that much to begin with.

Hmm. a little tit for tat never hurt anyone? And I wasn’t generally directing that at any person just a general statement about someone who said the “people that hate the topic will take it over.” I was simply voicing my opinion the subject. There are people that Actually hate the content, and then there are “haters” (as I call them) who just want to cause problems, stir up things, and generally bait people who may not necessarily speak their minds against them.

Then again, I didn’t write it to offend anyone, but if they are offended by me calling them haters, sorry, not sorry. It’s actually how I feel. Even the most legitimate reasons for disliking something annoy me when its tossed around in anger. I commend people who dislike something when they say it in a good way and I rather detest people who blindly hate things and give no valid solutions otherwise.

Paradox.1380:

Vayne.8563:

Paradox.1380:

Haters are going to continue to hate. But for the vast majority that this was just a shocking thing. I am glad to see it FINALLY calming down, and I am actually honored that ANet took the development time to sit back, rethink something on the fly and tweak it as needed. Generally I think the NPE is an all around good and I am very happy to see all of the “Account” unlocks now working properly and that new things were added making it ever-easier to continue being my alt-o-holic self. Not that I ever intended to stop Its just nice that its more smooth now.

I usually agree with what you say, but I really don’t like using the word “haters” to describe people who don’t like the game. It’s no better than them trying to dismiss our opinion by calling us white knights. People hate this game for a reason, and often it’s a legitimate reason to them.

In general, though, I think most of the population will be mollified by these changes, and those who aren’t probably didn’t like the game’s direction that much to begin with.

Hmm. a little tit for tat never hurt anyone? And I wasn’t generally directing that at any person just a general statement about someone who said the “people that hate the topic will take it over.” I was simply voicing my opinion the subject. There are people that Actually hate the content, and then there are “haters” (as I call them) who just want to cause problems, stir up things, and generally bait people who may not necessarily speak their minds against them.

Then again, I didn’t write it to offend anyone, but if they are offended by me calling them haters, sorry, not sorry. It’s actually how I feel. Even the most legitimate reasons for disliking something annoy me when its tossed around in anger. I commend people who dislike something when they say it in a good way and I rather detest people who blindly hate things and give no valid solutions otherwise.

Did ever occur to you that some of these problems are really really old problems and that the solutions these so called “haters” have given time and time again have fallen on deaf ears when they decided to make the suggestions folder an archive? Meanwhile here in the general forums every new suggestion is a rehashed one of something someone already said in the suggestions folder over and over again ad nauseum.

tigirius.9014:

Paradox.1380:

Vayne.8563:

Paradox.1380:

Haters are going to continue to hate. But for the vast majority that this was just a shocking thing. I am glad to see it FINALLY calming down, and I am actually honored that ANet took the development time to sit back, rethink something on the fly and tweak it as needed. Generally I think the NPE is an all around good and I am very happy to see all of the “Account” unlocks now working properly and that new things were added making it ever-easier to continue being my alt-o-holic self. Not that I ever intended to stop Its just nice that its more smooth now.

I usually agree with what you say, but I really don’t like using the word “haters” to describe people who don’t like the game. It’s no better than them trying to dismiss our opinion by calling us white knights. People hate this game for a reason, and often it’s a legitimate reason to them.

In general, though, I think most of the population will be mollified by these changes, and those who aren’t probably didn’t like the game’s direction that much to begin with.

Hmm. a little tit for tat never hurt anyone? And I wasn’t generally directing that at any person just a general statement about someone who said the “people that hate the topic will take it over.” I was simply voicing my opinion the subject. There are people that Actually hate the content, and then there are “haters” (as I call them) who just want to cause problems, stir up things, and generally bait people who may not necessarily speak their minds against them.

Then again, I didn’t write it to offend anyone, but if they are offended by me calling them haters, sorry, not sorry. It’s actually how I feel. Even the most legitimate reasons for disliking something annoy me when its tossed around in anger. I commend people who dislike something when they say it in a good way and I rather detest people who blindly hate things and give no valid solutions otherwise.

Did ever occur to you that some of these problems are really really old problems and that the solutions these so called “haters” have given time and time again have fallen on deaf ears when they decided to make the suggestions folder an archive? Meanwhile here in the general forums every new suggestion is a rehashed one of something someone already said in the suggestions folder over and over again ad nauseum.

Sort of not the point. A game company has X number of hours and has to set priorities. Period. If your priorities are different from theirs, then they’re not doing their job to you. If your priorities are the same, they look a lot better.

You have things you want to see fixed more than anything. A lot of people do. But a lot of people don’t also. There are people who like the way this game is going. Logically they share the same priorities as Anet.

Some people come to these forums and say, this guy’s a white knight because he supports what Anet is doing no matter what. That’s just not true. I support what Anet is doing because they stuff they’re doing is the same sorts of stuff I’d be doing. Not always, but most of the time.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to accept that other people have completely different priorities than they do, and based on those priorities they’ll feel differently about the game.

I don’t deny what you’re saying about bugs. I’m simply saying that Anet is making this game more for people like me than people like you. That’s all I’m really saying.

And it’s a good thing too. Because no other MMO is making a game for people like me.

tigirius.9014:

Paradox.1380:

Vayne.8563:

Paradox.1380:

Haters are going to continue to hate. But for the vast majority that this was just a shocking thing. I am glad to see it FINALLY calming down, and I am actually honored that ANet took the development time to sit back, rethink something on the fly and tweak it as needed. Generally I think the NPE is an all around good and I am very happy to see all of the “Account” unlocks now working properly and that new things were added making it ever-easier to continue being my alt-o-holic self. Not that I ever intended to stop Its just nice that its more smooth now.

I usually agree with what you say, but I really don’t like using the word “haters” to describe people who don’t like the game. It’s no better than them trying to dismiss our opinion by calling us white knights. People hate this game for a reason, and often it’s a legitimate reason to them.

In general, though, I think most of the population will be mollified by these changes, and those who aren’t probably didn’t like the game’s direction that much to begin with.

Hmm. a little tit for tat never hurt anyone? And I wasn’t generally directing that at any person just a general statement about someone who said the “people that hate the topic will take it over.” I was simply voicing my opinion the subject. There are people that Actually hate the content, and then there are “haters” (as I call them) who just want to cause problems, stir up things, and generally bait people who may not necessarily speak their minds against them.

Then again, I didn’t write it to offend anyone, but if they are offended by me calling them haters, sorry, not sorry. It’s actually how I feel. Even the most legitimate reasons for disliking something annoy me when its tossed around in anger. I commend people who dislike something when they say it in a good way and I rather detest people who blindly hate things and give no valid solutions otherwise.

Did ever occur to you that some of these problems are really really old problems and that the solutions these so called “haters” have given time and time again have fallen on deaf ears when they decided to make the suggestions folder an archive? Meanwhile here in the general forums every new suggestion is a rehashed one of something someone already said in the suggestions folder over and over again ad nauseum.

Vayne, kinda got what I meant by what I said… But I wanted to elaborate on what I mean by “hater.”

My definition of a hater is someone who blindly hates anything and everything done to change. And then when in this case ANet changes something to try to meet a middle ground its met with “Well it should have been this way from the start!” or “It’s not good enough you didn’t give me Exactly what I want.” Or the go on rants about things they hate, but don’t offer anything as a solution to what they want, and the blatantly ignore the stickied post about how to leave good feedback.

And furthermore what I meant was in that many instances where people, instead of trying it out themselves, took to video and kept rehashing the same things over and over again as “unacceptable ANET!” when a good majority of it wasn’t true. Then when someone like me comes out who went out and purposefully tried it out, tells them the opposite and offers them the proof. I am then attacked (or completely ignored while they continue to rant against any logical thought), because I am a “White Knight” or a “Fan Girl” who follows every word of ANet like its law.

This is not true and yah, I’ll admit reading some posts in this thread I’m a little miffed. Sorry I lost my white knight cloak for a moment.. I’ll remember not to next time =/

I generally support the game this is true because I have somewhat of the same viewpoints as they do on things. I don’t know. But, I understand not everyone is going to think like me. Doesn’t mean I’m not human and can’t get agitated at out right ignorance or attacks.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Lothirieth.3408:

Re point 1, the old way of unlocking weapons was grindy and boring to me and I greatly prefer this new way. For slot 4 and 5, it felt like it could take a long time to get those unlocked and with certain weapons, it certainly was slow.

Was it eight levels of slow? I still think it’s insane having to wait until level 10 just to get my fifth weapon ability. Once you got past level three or four (I don’t know the exact point, maybe it was a little closer to ten), then every single kill would unlock the next weapon skill. It was weighted in such a way so that if you picked up a new weapon later in the game, it would unlock much quicker for you.

As Colin has mentioned elsewhere, the early levels have been significantly sped up. I got a character to level 10 in 40 minutes.

People keep doing this: mentioning the number of level it takes to unlock ‘x’, all the while assuming that level 1 to level-x takes the exact time now as it did before the September feature patch. That is simply wrong and paints an incorrect picture. It’s furthering misconceptions about the new leveling system and causing unnecessary angst.

I understand grabbing all weapons for your profession at level 1 and unlocking them all would feel like it’s taking a long time, but really, there’s no reason to do that. If you have one or two preferred weapons, yeah, stick to those, but you really don’t need every single one for your class unlocked ASAP.

YOU may not feel the need to unlock the weapon skills asap and that is your prerogative. What you should remember is other people have different play styles and desires from yourself. Getting all weapon skills unlocked early on has always been my first primary goal on a new character, so I can get the feel of them and have any of them ready to go if I may need them in a certain situation. If we want to go down the road of what any one of us need.. well.. one could go so far as to say none of us need to be playing video games. So it’s best not to go down that road and assume what other people need or want to do.

Vayne.8563:

Sort of not the point. A game company has X number of hours and has to set priorities. Period. If your priorities are different from theirs, then they’re not doing their job to you. If your priorities are the same, they look a lot better.

You have things you want to see fixed more than anything. A lot of people do. But a lot of people don’t also. There are people who like the way this game is going. Logically they share the same priorities as Anet.

Some people come to these forums and say, this guy’s a white knight because he supports what Anet is doing no matter what. That’s just not true. I support what Anet is doing because they stuff they’re doing is the same sorts of stuff I’d be doing. Not always, but most of the time.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to accept that other people have completely different priorities than they do, and based on those priorities they’ll feel differently about the game.

Its more about GW2 having a quantity of content released in this 2 years thats prety low for most MMO. That has been seen worst since they tried to fragmentate it in smaller parts, that make people to conect in a 15 days basis, but make them feel even smaller.

If it has more released content (not in opposition of many releases, but they arent the same of course) then most of what people claim will be alredy fixed.

Edit: Same with bug fixes, etc most of the features, bug fixes, etc including the content are pretty low in quantity considering their competence.

Lucius.2140:

Vayne.8563:

Sort of not the point. A game company has X number of hours and has to set priorities. Period. If your priorities are different from theirs, then they’re not doing their job to you. If your priorities are the same, they look a lot better.

You have things you want to see fixed more than anything. A lot of people do. But a lot of people don’t also. There are people who like the way this game is going. Logically they share the same priorities as Anet.

Some people come to these forums and say, this guy’s a white knight because he supports what Anet is doing no matter what. That’s just not true. I support what Anet is doing because they stuff they’re doing is the same sorts of stuff I’d be doing. Not always, but most of the time.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to accept that other people have completely different priorities than they do, and based on those priorities they’ll feel differently about the game.

Its more about GW2 having a quantity of content released in this 2 years thats prety low for most MMO. That has been seen worst since they tried to fragmentate it in smaller parts, that make people to conect in a 15 days basis, but make them feel even smaller.

If it has more released content (not in opposition of many releases, but they arent the same of course) then most of what people claim will be alredy fixed.

Edit: Same with bug fixes, etc most of the features, bug fixes, etc including the content are pretty low in quantity considering their competence.

But the thing is, I don’t like the updates in other MMOs for the most part. I went from update to update in Rift and I didn’t like any of them. Rift could have come out with an update every day and it wouldn’t have made any difference to my enjoyment of the game.

This game has less updates this year, probably because of China. That’s done now. But the updates they do have interest me personally. So I’m here.

If another game comes out that has stuff that interests me personally, then I’ll try it out. But so far, no other MMO has come out with content for me.