Another big “kitten you” for the people who were enjoying playing the game and getting rewards, having fun is forbidden you must do mind numbing grinds to get anything, spend tons of time in convoluted menus crafting stuff and take months because of all time gates. Way to go devs! Keep up the good job! The Trading Post is the top priority!
Well, as for crafting, yes, it is a costy hobby, but also fruitful. However, it is indeed not beginner-friendly (as we say in German), because it seems very chaotic: the UI is bloated and the functionality of unlocking recipes not made clear at all, so only practice, online guides and trial & error can help you grasping the “logic” behind it.
But in spite of its shortscomings it is worth looking into and learning all about it.
Another big “kitten you” for the people who were enjoying playing the game and getting rewards, having fun is forbidden you must do mind numbing grinds to get anything, spend tons of time in convoluted menus crafting stuff and take months because of all time gates. Way to go devs! Keep up the good job! The Trading Post is the top priority!
Well, as for crafting, yes, it is a costy hobby, but also fruitful. However, it is indeed not beginner-friendly (as we say in German), because it seems very chaotic: the UI is bloated and the functionality of unlocking recipes not made clear at all, so only practice, online guides and trial & error can help you grasping the “logic” behind it.
But in spite of its shortscomings it is worth looking into and learning all about it.
It’s not about itbeing fruitful or not, it’s not even immersive or interesting, stuff like the time it took to make 4500 elder wood logs into planks and those into staff heads and shafts and those into basic staffs for the legendary collections were one of the stupidiest time sinks I’ve seen in this game.
First, it’s too convoluted and requires a tonkitten of mouse presses starting by the amount of clicks just to buy this kitten from the TP.
Second, I literally spent most of the time alt+tab’ed coming back now and then to move the charactr to avoid being disconnected while I was doing something else.
There is no queueing, materials are a mess to find around, menus are terrible, and there is no away/offline mode like in many other games that require long crafts time and no way to make the whole thing go quicker either.
And now ANet is trying to shove these amazing experiences down every player’s that want to have BiS gear throath for no reason other than “because we can” instead of just adjusting costs.
Another big “kitten you” for the people who were enjoying playing the game and getting rewards, having fun is forbidden you must do mind numbing grinds to get anything, spend tons of time in convoluted menus crafting stuff and take months because of all time gates. Way to go devs! Keep up the good job! The Trading Post is the top priority!
Well, as for crafting, yes, it is a costy hobby, but also fruitful. However, it is indeed not beginner-friendly (as we say in German), because it seems very chaotic: the UI is bloated and the functionality of unlocking recipes not made clear at all, so only practice, online guides and trial & error can help you grasping the “logic” behind it.
But in spite of its shortscomings it is worth looking into and learning all about it.
It’s not about itbeing fruitful or not, it’s not even immersive or interesting, stuff like the time it took to make 4500 elder wood logs into planks and those into staff heads and shafts and those into basic staffs for the legendary collections were one of the stupidiest time sinks I’ve seen in this game.
First, it’s too convoluted and requires a tonkitten of mouse presses starting by the amount of clicks just to buy this kitten from the TP.
Second, I literally spent most of the time alt+tab’ed coming back now and then to move the charactr to avoid being disconnected while I was doing something else.
There is no queueing, materials are a mess to find around, menus are terrible, and there is no away/offline mode like in many other games that require long crafts time and no way to make the whole thing go quicker either.
And now ANet is trying to shove these amazing experiences down every player’s that want to have BiS gear throath for no reason other than “because we can” instead of just adjusting costs.
The only thing that I would change about your post is the, "now ANet is trying to shove… " part. ANet isnt just now trying, theyve been doing it for years.
Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…
Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…
Are you suggesting that players go spend their money and time on other games instead of GW2?
Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…
Just because other games have worse grind doesn’t justify it for this game.
Would you say the same thing if they brought in something that’s p2w in the cash shop? Just shrug it off and say “other games have worse p2w cash shops” ?
Furthermore, some games that do have grind in them may be built around that grind – as in it feels enjoyable rather than a chore.
And I salute the likes of you for having played other grindier games than the “plebs” that are complaining about it on these forums….
God you’re a kittening veteran!!!!
Personally, I’ve played grindier games too – say MapleStory (back in the 0.35v days). Or even D2/D3…. The grind in those games fit those games. Whereas for GW2, grind doesn’t fit the game too much. Sure it exists, but it feels, again, like a chore instead of some sort of an enjoyment.
Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…
Just because other games have worse grind doesn’t justify it for this game.
Would you say the same thing if they brought in something that’s p2w in the cash shop? Just shrug it off and say “other games have worse p2w cash shops” ?
Furthermore, some games that do have grind in them may be built around that grind – as in it feels enjoyable rather than a chore.
And I salute the likes of you for having played other grindier games than the “plebs” that are complaining about it on these forums….
God you’re a kittening veteran!!!!
Personally, I’ve played grindier games too – say MapleStory (back in the 0.35v days). Or even D2/D3…. The grind in those games fit those games. Whereas for GW2, grind doesn’t fit the game too much. Sure it exists, but it feels, again, like a chore instead of some sort of an enjoyment.
Good point, but it also not neccessary to rush for asc gear, eventually you get as drop, and it’s only required for a small part of the content.
Good point, but it also not neccessary to rush for asc gear, eventually you get as drop, and it’s only required for a small part of the content.
True.
The problem arises more so for a couple of people.
Min-max-er’s that run a couple of builds/alts.
And a community (be it a guild in WvW or for raids, or that pug group you joined) that almost enforces everyone to have ascended gear… and as someone that doesn’t, you’re left out (or kicked or w/e).
GW2 feels like it’s in an awkward place in terms of rewards/goals/progression.
To some degree the game claims it’s more horizontal progression, yet we have ascended gear. Besides that, if it’s horizontal progression – and based on cosmetics – than some of the better ones are in the cash shop/black like tickets.
And be cause of that initial thought that the game is more horizontal progression than vertical, something like ascended gear flys in the face of that with it’s relative grindiness.
For 5 characters I figure I have 45 pieces of ascended gear that matter (both weapon slots 2handed, 1handed & offhands and 6 pieces of armor x 5). I’d approximate I crafted 25 pieces, know I’ve bought 5 from spvp, gotten 1 leg box from fractals and so rest are wvw, 14. I am rank ~2000.
And how many of those 14 drops from wvw were rings? Be honest here.
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…
You might want to try out GW1 sometimes. End game gear there says hello.
How far did we get from those times now…
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…
You might want to try out GW1 sometimes. End game gear there says hello.
How far did we get from those times now…
Pretty far.
To be fair, they are two completely different games that are only overlapping on the lore (and ofc the name).
For 5 characters I figure I have 45 pieces of ascended gear that matter (both weapon slots 2handed, 1handed & offhands and 6 pieces of armor x 5). I’d approximate I crafted 25 pieces, know I’ve bought 5 from spvp, gotten 1 leg box from fractals and so rest are wvw, 14. I am rank ~2000.
And how many of those 14 drops from wvw were rings? Be honest here.
I don’t count rings, as I said meaningful in the post before it. I mean if anyone is going to start crying rings/amulets/earrings/backitems are too hard to get then this thread just went full blown gimme gimme.
A couple of things:
A: I don’t see anything in the post suggesting that getting ascended gear will be more expensive than it is now (per item). Yes you’d need to level up crafting in order to get the items, but the cost to acquire the items doesn’t look like it will be increased.
B: How many players actually used the Ascended gear vendors from Fractals? I mean so many are complaining that they are making this game “grind heavy” or threatening to stop playing because gearing will be so hard, yet every time I’ve seen the Ascended gear cost of the vendors the community always says it’s a total waste of time and resources.
C: Let’s not pretend that the pvp reward system was healthy. It was so cheap/effortless to get Ascended gear from pvp that it made all other acquisition methods seem worthless.
I think most of the complainers on this thread are completely off-topic, complaining about how hard it is to get Ascended gear in the game, while the topic is not about how hard it is to get Ascended gear but about how a useless acquisition method will become slightly more useless, and a completely overpowered, borderline exploit-y, method will be fixed. Make a thread about Ascended gear and how much of a grind it is.
Well anet is forcing everyone to craft. No thanks. Its been fun anet. Maybe in gw3 you will actually give people a choice in HOW they want to play the game. I don’t craft. I hate crafting. I am not gonna pay anet one more penny for gems if they make crafting mandatory. My crafting level is one. I am happy with that. VERY happy.
A couple of things:
A: I don’t see anything in the post suggesting that getting ascended gear will be more expensive than it is now (per item).
Um…
Second, purchasing the ascended gear will now rely much more on player crafting. The cost for a piece of gear will now include a crafted token which shows a player’s mastery of the appropriate crafting discipline, the game mode specific currency, and raw gold. Ascended crafting is vital to sustaining a healthy economy and it is important that we keep that in place even when a player acquires ascended items via a vendor. For PvP, this will add a considerable cost to the acquisition of ascended gear.
B: How many players actually used the Ascended gear vendors from Fractals?
I agree that those could cost significantly less. In the end, however, as i understand, it’s not the price changes that are discussed here. Its the requirement to engage in crafting.
C: Let’s not pretend that the pvp reward system was healthy. It was so cheap/effortless to get Ascended gear from pvp that it made all other acquisition methods seem worthless.
It required interacting with PvP. After the first 4 league seasons i got burned out so much on that content, that i have managed to get only 150 tokens, for example. I know many other people that would rather do fractals for months till the right ascended box drops (and use gold to change stats on it) than play a single pvp match. Besides, there was a hard cap on how many items you could get in one season.
Besides, again, it’s not about the price at all (not that the price doesn’t need discussing).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Thank you for putting some small meaning back into crafting. It’s so easy to forget that we get ascended gear basically for free and not spending the coin to craft has saved us a lot of money and time.
That’s for the PVP version not the Fractal version. And we still don’t know if the new “version” of the fractals vendor will be more or less expensive.
I agree that those could cost significantly less. In the end, however, as i understand, it’s not the price changes that are discussed here. Its the requirement to engage in crafting.
Which is pointless if so few people are using that vendor anyway. By making it rely on crafting the price will increase or decrease based on supply and demand. Which is very important, since this is “end game” gear we are talking about. 5g was a lot 4 years ago, now it’s less than 3 dailies. By making the items depend on crafting, their price will go up or down as the economy changes, which is a good thing not to devalue and destroy other ascended acquisition methods in the game in the future. It’s a more future proof method, provided they don’t do massive changes to crafting recipes ever again.
It required interacting with PvP.
No it didn’t, since you got ascended shards by afking in a corner and not actually playing pvp. The first 4 seasons didn’t award ascended shards, only S5 did. It was as good at bringing people to pvp as the pvp reward tracks being available in custom arenas. I wouldn’t call those players farming pvp reward tracks as “interested in pvp”, in the same way I wouldn’t call players afking in a corner to get their ascended armor as “interested in pvp” either. Not to mention the effect on other acquisition methods.
No it didn’t, since you got ascended shards by afking in a corner and not actually playing pvp. The first 4 seasons didn’t award ascended shards, only S5 did. It was as good at bringing people to pvp as the pvp reward tracks being available in custom arenas. I wouldn’t call those players farming pvp reward tracks as “interested in pvp”, in the same way I wouldn’t call players afking in a corner to get their ascended armor as “interested in pvp” either. Not to mention the effect on other acquisition methods.
The actuality of ppl doing that was very slim. Most by far played. You can’t use the slim minority as representative of a whole to prove a point.
The actuality of ppl doing that was very slim. Most by far played. You can’t use the slim minority as representative of a whole to prove a point.
Great way of missing the point. Yes, not many people actually akitten in a corner to get their ascended items, but that doesn’t make the system good. Once you get rewarded for losing, then there is little incentive to win and actually do some pvp. That’s why most of my S5 games were garbage, full of afkers or players who didn’t want to play pvp, just roam around the map doing nothing to help the team.
If the purpose behind the ascended rewards was to bring pve players to pvp, to actually play pvp, then it failed miserably. S5 had the worst games by far.
The actuality of ppl doing that was very slim. Most by far played. You can’t use the slim minority as representative of a whole to prove a point.
Great way of missing the point. Yes, not many people actually akitten in a corner to get their ascended items, but that doesn’t make the system good. Once you get rewarded for losing, then there is little incentive to win and actually do some pvp. That’s why most of my S5 games were garbage, full of afkers or players who didn’t want to play pvp, just roam around the map doing nothing to help the team.
If the purpose behind the ascended rewards was to bring pve players to pvp, to actually play pvp, then it failed miserably. S5 had the worst games by far.
That makes no sense. In one sentence you say players didn’t mainly do it, but in the next you say that’s what most were doing. So if your point was there, it wasn’t valid.
The incentive to win was speeding up the process. 10 ticks for a win + 1 for stats.
Remember your experience is anecdotal in terms of proof.
That makes no sense. In one sentence you say players didn’t mainly do it, but in the next you say that’s what most were doing. So if your point was there, it wasn’t valid.
The incentive to win was speeding up the process. 10 ticks for a win + 1 for stats.
Didn’t mainly afk in a corner to get the free items. That doesn’t mean they didn’t hurt their team in other ways and in any way never actually participated in player versus player activity.
And “speeding up” is no incentive at all. You have more than enough time during a pvp season to get a nearly full set without winning a single game. Not to mention: there is a cap. The better you play, the faster you reach the cap.
As a bonus: it’s faster to get that nearly full ascended set, than getting an exotic set from the dungeon pvp tracks. That’s how pathetic that reward system was and I don’t understand how people can defend it.
That makes no sense. In one sentence you say players didn’t mainly do it, but in the next you say that’s what most were doing. So if your point was there, it wasn’t valid.
The incentive to win was speeding up the process. 10 ticks for a win + 1 for stats.
Didn’t mainly afk in a corner to get the free items. That doesn’t mean they didn’t hurt their team in other ways and in any way never actually participated in player versus player activity.
And “speeding up” is no incentive at all. You have more than enough time during a pvp season to get a nearly full set without winning a single game.
As a bonus: it’s faster to get that nearly full ascended set, than getting an exotic set from the dungeon pvp tracks. That’s how pathetic that reward system was and I don’t understand how people can defend it.
Are you reading what you are writing? You seem to be contradicting yourself and applying opinion as fact.
Are you reading what you are writing? You seem to be contradicting yourself and applying opinion as fact.
The system was garbage and had to go, that’s not an opinion.
I’m afraid that’s exactly what that is.
Care to explain this then:
As a bonus: it’s faster to get that nearly full ascended set, than getting an exotic set from the dungeon pvp tracks. That’s how pathetic that reward system was and I don’t understand how people can defend it.
Are you reading what you are writing? You seem to be contradicting yourself and applying opinion as fact.
The system was garbage and had to go, that’s not an opinion.
I’m afraid that’s exactly what that is.
Care to explain this then:
As a bonus: it’s faster to get that nearly full ascended set, than getting an exotic set from the dungeon pvp tracks. That’s how pathetic that reward system was and I don’t understand how people can defend it.
This/then would imply debating the point of your prior comment being an opinion, so it’s not supported by another opinion of conjecture.
That aside dungeon tracks are always available once unlocked, season rewards are time limited.
That aside dungeon tracks are always available once unlocked, season rewards are time limited.
That’s irrelevant. You can get Ascended faster than Exotic from pvp rewards, that doesn’t lead to a healthy reward system at all. You can debate all you want but that’s the truth of the matter and that’s why they are changing it.
Healthy in terms of pvp in general or just during the season? What defines a healthy reward system?
I think I already said it but maybe it requires repeating multiple times.
If you can get an “end game” reward faster than a non-“end game” reward then there is a serious flaw with a reward system.
If players of one game type (PVE players in this case) go to another game type (PVP) not to play the game type but to earn a similar reward faster than is available in their own game type then it causes a myriad of other problems. For example, degrading the quality of game in the affected game mode and also devaluing other acquisition methods of the other game modes.
I’m sure the devs have metrics for both match quality and showing how many people went to pvp to earn that shinny and then leave/stop caring. I don’t think they take action without reading their data, the type of action is debatable, but not the need for action.
Healthy in terms of pvp in general or just during the season? What defines a healthy reward system?
I think I already said it but maybe it requires repeating multiple times.
If you can get an “end game” reward faster than a non-“end game” reward then there is a serious flaw with a reward system.
If players of one game type (PVE players in this case) go to another game type (PVP) not to play the game type but to earn a similar reward faster than is available in their own game type then it causes a myriad of other problems. For example, degrading the quality of game in the affected game mode and also devaluing other acquisition methods of the other game modes.
I’m sure the devs have metrics for both match quality and showing how many people went to pvp to earn that shinny and then leave/stop caring. I don’t think they take action without reading their data, the type of action is debatable, but not the need for action.
That makes no sense. In one sentence you say players didn’t mainly do it, but in the next you say that’s what most were doing. So if your point was there, it wasn’t valid.
The incentive to win was speeding up the process. 10 ticks for a win + 1 for stats.
Didn’t mainly afk in a corner to get the free items. That doesn’t mean they didn’t hurt their team in other ways and in any way never actually participated in player versus player activity.
And “speeding up” is no incentive at all. You have more than enough time during a pvp season to get a nearly full set without winning a single game. Not to mention: there is a cap. The better you play, the faster you reach the cap.
As a bonus: it’s faster to get that nearly full ascended set, than getting an exotic set from the dungeon pvp tracks. That’s how pathetic that reward system was and I don’t understand how people can defend it.
Speeding up the process is a huge incentive for anyone who is playing through a game mode they dislike for the sake of something shiny at the end.
I had a paragraph written on the “hurting their team” part but decided I wasn’t in the mood. Short version, we had different experiences to each other, and I doubt the objectivity of your’s.
it’s not even immersive or interesting, stuff like the time it took to make 4500 elder wood logs into planks and those into staff heads and shafts and those into basic staffs for the legendary collections were one of the stupidiest time sinks I’ve seen in this game.
That is actually true, if you craft a lot it becomes quite annoying — it wouldn’t hurt if they sped up “mass production”. Then again, people would probably flood the TP with even higher quantities of their goods, which would have a huge impact on the economy — it is likely that this is the reason why Anet put breaks on crafting times.
Nah. dungeon PvP tracks are here for skins, not for exotic class gear. If you want exotics, you can just buy them off tp for small amount of gold.
Last I checked the dungeon gear had exotic stats too and wasn’t just skins.
Sure, but as a way of obtaining exotic class gear, pvp tracks were never a serious option. Don’t use them as a baseline of comparison, because it makes your argument look really weak.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Agreed. But in this case it was the fractal vendor that was the problem. Balancing doesn’t mean making everything equally useless.
The pvp vendor was a problem, the fractal vendor was more expensive by design and it was created as such because crafting the items shouldn’t be more expensive than getting them from a vendor (for obvious reasons).
The cost of Ascended items from crafting changes based on supply/demand, however the vendor prices were fixed. By adding an item that must be crafted, the prices of the vendor will also change to reflect any changes in supply/demand.
I would understand if they were increasing the amount of shards needed to buy the ascended pieces of armor in sPvP and adjusting the price to the fractal weapons, but requiring those game modes to craft is frankly not fair. I speaking as someone that is a veteran of the game ( play all 3 game modes) and I have crafted a whole set of ascended gear which takes time and money to make having made it when ascended gear was only craftable or a rare drop. I also participated in the first and second tournaments in sPvP and was tired of so little reward for spending my time there with people that are so salty and getting so frustrated with the pip system. It was a nice reward to get the ascended gear for the tournament and I believe it was a good reward especially since ascended gear does not drop in sPvP as regularly as say WvW or Fractals. If they had to change it I would have preferred that they made the shard cost more expensive or perhaps the gold to increase so it was a little more on par with the other ways of acquisition. Say only allowing you to buy the chest and legs or the helmet, gloves and boots rather than 5/6 pieces of armor. Forcing people to craft ascended armor especially after the price hike after HoT with damask patches is not fair to people that don’t like to craft. If this actually happens once again I’m sure I won’t be participating in the tournament seeing as people are so salty and many people get placed in a losing game because it is so unbalanced.
For the WvWers that was complaining I am sure you will get your ascended gear no doubt. You will be getting the triumphant armor that has been in the wardrobe since the reward tracks were placed into the game so there is no question that you will get it in time. Also ascended boxes do drop regularly in WvW at least I have had them drop and many of my friends that play WvW say they drop constantly and they don’t know what to do with them. But frankly do you want to have to craft that armor? pay for it from the vendor, then go and have to craft it on a profession? This is what most of us on this forum dislike about it. That they are forcing us to craft despite already going through the saltyness that is a sPvP tournament and enduring loss after loss after loss because of the unbalanced teams. Now I am not arguing that people don’t abuse it, hopefully Anet might be able to do something about it. for instance if someone has no stats in a match they can’t be rewarded with anything from that match no pips and no rewards. Increase the amount of shards needed so you can only get 2-3/6 pieces of armor per tournament. since that still requires someone to make or get a drop of 2-3 pieces of ascended armor from another game mode or by crafting it. All we are asking is for crafting not be put into these game modes, especially since you can only get shards of ascension during the tournament that is only for a limited amount of time.
Agreed. But in this case it was the fractal vendor that was the problem. Balancing doesn’t mean making everything equally useless.
The pvp vendor was a problem, the fractal vendor was more expensive by design and it was created as such because crafting the items shouldn’t be more expensive than getting them from a vendor (for obvious reasons).
The cost of Ascended items from crafting changes based on supply/demand, however the vendor prices were fixed. By adding an item that must be crafted, the prices of the vendor will also change to reflect any changes in supply/demand.
Yeah, I imagine that these crafted items will require a certain percentage of the materials required to craft that piece of armour/weapon. Somewhere between half and three quarters of the materials.
Why there’s a “raw gold” component too I don’t know. That just introduces a third factor and makes it likelier that the moderate savings they’re planning on sPvPer’s getting will vary a lot from season to season.
Obviously I don’t have the numbers, but isn’t the raid vendor as big, if not bigger, source of new ascended gear than PvP or fractal vendors?
Makes you wonder why they limit this change to just those vendors.
I agree with you Blaeys, they have locked cheap ascended gear behind a wall that most of the community cannot play because of the people that raid. Ascended gear usually needs to be pinged if you join as a pug and if these choices from sPvP and Fractals are changed it means everyone that doesn’t want to craft is locked from a game mode.
I must be one of the only ones who agrees with ANet on this, it was far too cheap to get ascended from PVP. It is supposed to be difficult to get, it is not a requirement that you get it as you can run around with exotics all you want and still win. Those of us who have put the time and effort into crafting, spending up to 100G a piece for ascended gear only to see cheap kitten in PvP makes you wonder why you bother, but luckily they have now seen the error of their ways.
