Guild Wars 2

Lamir.6702:

Consider that if people want you to be filtered out of a group, maybe it’s actually for a good reason instead of instantly responding “WTF elitist!” and refusing to make your own group.

And consider that most people are making their own groups and still find the same disgusting behavior showing up there as well. Which is a point a lot of you are refusing to see.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Lamir.6702:

Consider that if people want you to be filtered out of a group, maybe it’s actually for a good reason instead of instantly responding “WTF elitist!” and refusing to make your own group.

And consider that most people are making their own groups and still find the same disgusting behavior showing up there as well. Which is a point a lot of you are refusing to see.

And people lie all the time. I still see low lvl characters in “lvl80 only” groups. I still see cleric healing staff camping guardians in “zerker only” groups. I still see total new players in “experienced” groups. People can’t or refuse to read. And they come to the forums and complain about their rights and whatnot.

Scrambles.2604:

“Your type?” Are you kidding me, man? Have you been so traumatized by WoW that you automatically assume anyone that is in favor of DPS meters is also a troll that will boot you from groups?

Personal meters are far different in concept, execution, and acceptance than group meters. Personal meters allow you do get that improvement scale you desire, and completely eliminate the unavoidable discrimination, hatred, and disgusting attitudes you see. In fact, you see a lot of them in this thread, and I find them a bunch of fools who I’d not even want to be in a party with in the first place. They can go make their own parties to compare kittens, while the rest of us make our own parties.

The problem is, players dont always read (like getting a ranger in a Fractal 38 run when the LFG blatantly states “need a warrior”), and still bring the disgusting filth of their notions of how to play the game with them to the party. If I advertise a group to run a Fractal 1-9 for daily tier and that anyone’s welcome, including Fractal noobs, I dont expect the run to finish fast. So when someone begins complaining that it’s taking the first fractal 10 minutes to complete even though I spent half of that explaining how to run the Swamp fractal to 3 people who have never touched Fractals, I say only one thing: please second the kick. People like that I dont enjoy in my groups when I’m taking the time to do a run that basically teaches player things they’ve never done before.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Scrambles.2604:

“Your type?” Are you kidding me, man? Have you been so traumatized by WoW that you automatically assume anyone that is in favor of DPS meters is also a troll that will boot you from groups?

Personal meters are far different in concept, execution, and acceptance than group meters. Personal meters allow you do get that improvement scale you desire, and completely eliminate the unavoidable discrimination, hatred, and disgusting attitudes you see. In fact, you see a lot of them in this thread, and I find them a bunch of fools who I’d not even want to be in a party with in the first place. They can go make their own parties to compare kittens, while the rest of us make our own parties.

The problem is, players dont always read (like getting a ranger in a Fractal 38 run when the LFG blatantly states “need a warrior”), and still bring the disgusting filth of their notions of how to play the game with them to the party. If I advertise a group to run a Fractal 1-9 for daily tier and that anyone’s welcome, including Fractal noobs, I dont expect the run to finish fast. So when someone begins complaining that it’s taking the first fractal 10 minutes to complete even though I spent half of that explaining how to run the Swamp fractal to 3 people who have never touched Fractals, I say only one thing: please second the kick. People like that I dont enjoy in my groups when I’m taking the time to do a run that basically teaches player things they’ve never done before.

Personal meters are great, but if you have no idea what type of damage your teammates are putting out, you’ll be like Mr. PVT guardian over here thinking your big numbers are comparable to your peers in zerker gear.

Personal meters are great for personal progress, but tell you nothing about how you would stack up in a team environment. Of course, you can ask other people about their DPS but nothing is more accurate or accessible than seeing your teammates’ metrics via combat meter.

Scrambles.2604:

Personal meters are great, but if you have no idea what type of damage your teammates are putting out, you’ll be like Mr. PVT guardian over here thinking your big numbers are comparable to your peers in zerker gear.

Personal meters are great for personal progress, but tell you nothing about how you would stack up in a team environment. Of course, you can ask other people about their DPS but nothing is more accurate or accessible than seeing your teammates’ metrics via combat meter.

If you want to compare, then ask. Now, if people want to insist on group meters for some legitimate reason, then I’ll insist on having the ability to not show up on such group meters in any fashion unless I want to allow it. It’s also never going to be accurate as a group setting. Someone gets downed? Their damage goes poof. Someone stops to help get them up? Their damage goes poof. Someone starts a buff rotation that doesnt involve damaging enemies? Their damage goes poof. Someone relying on both direct damage and condi damage? Their damage is misrepresented. Comparing damage as a zerker mesmer to the damage of a zerker warrior in your party? Cant even begin to describe how lopsided that is. Even something as a simple “Damage over Run” display is going to be inaccurate.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Scrambles.2604:

Personal meters are great, but if you have no idea what type of damage your teammates are putting out, you’ll be like Mr. PVT guardian over here thinking your big numbers are comparable to your peers in zerker gear.

Personal meters are great for personal progress, but tell you nothing about how you would stack up in a team environment. Of course, you can ask other people about their DPS but nothing is more accurate or accessible than seeing your teammates’ metrics via combat meter.

If you want to compare, then ask. Now, if people want to insist on group meters for some legitimate reason, then I’ll insist on having the ability to not show up on such group meters in any fashion unless I want to allow it. It’s also never going to be accurate as a group setting. Someone gets downed? Their damage goes poof. Someone stops to help get them up? Their damage goes poof. Someone starts a buff rotation that doesnt involve damaging enemies? Their damage goes poof. Someone relying on both direct damage and condi damage? Their damage is misrepresented. Comparing damage as a zerker mesmer to the damage of a zerker warrior in your party? Cant even begin to describe how lopsided that is. Even something as a simple “Damage over Run” display is going to be inaccurate.

Honestly, it sounds like you’ve never used a damage meter before. Recount in WoW was a pretty incredible addon that pretty much kept track of everything. My favorite was the “record crit,” which would let you know when you make a critical hit higher than you’ve ever done before.

You’re right, you could just ask. But then you would have to deal with this PVT guardian exaggerating his damage claims with no evidence to the contrary

• Every time you get downed/dead, your damage is 0, thus not contributing to your meter.
• Every time you stop attacking to pick up someone downed, your damage is 0 (be thankful rangers, your pet’s finally useful ), thus not contributing to the meter.

The only other way I’d have no problem with a combat meter being group-wide was if it could only be viewed at the end of the dungeon/fractal/spvp match. In which case it’s not exactly a meter, but an after-action report, and at that point, kicking a player for subpar damage has no consequences aside from you knowing to not run a dungeon/fractal/pvp with that player again.

And can the sarcasm, it disgusts me.

I also want to be able to inspect where all of the achievement a person has came from, so that I can kick all of the 14k+ AP who got most of those by running dailies from headstart and never set a foot in most of the dungeon paths.
I would find this way smarter than any other rubbish meter and I am sure that 99.99% of the great elitists asking for xxxk+AP only and claiming these useless meters would want to shoot at me if such thing was added.

All I’m seeing here is that people think they have the right to disregard my preferences, waste my time and ruin non instanced world boss events with their “unique” play. Now who’s entitled?

If you care this much about the people you play with, then why in the hell are you pugging in the first place? There are guilds designed for just such a thing. Join those. Profit!

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”.

“Play how we want”. It’s interesting you mention that because it’s exactly the reason behind the game having all this anonymity in the first place. It’s something that nearly no other MMO has. Aside from appearances and active effects, there’s next to no way to figuring out a player’s build.

The best part, though, is not of it would matter all that much with the game’s huge emphasis on open party, open world gameplay. Dungeons are a bit more of an exception, but they’re not too difficult. Sans some Arah, pugging my title was a breeze. I’d get near instantaneous groups just by posting “LFM all welcome”.

To get back on track, I wouldn’t agree with damage meters and inspect commands in GW2 because I think that not having them is one of the better things the game has going for it. But there can definitely be some solid work in making more viable builds or helping players get better at the game.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would like to see these two things in game.

Nothing wrong with wanting it. The real question is do they want you as a customer, or me? Because what you’re asking for puts a chasm between those two outcomes.

You want to inspect me, I want to get on with doing the content rather than standing around posturing. And I carry a set of ‘zerker around with me I DON’T ACTUALLY WEAR that I can ping for you any time you’d like. Because I know my build, how to play it, and what my exact requirements are to not bring the team down by my being face-planted. Oh yeah, and zealot/keeper didn’t just take a big ol nerf bat to the face.

Really I’m more convinced people who want to inspect PUGs are double checking that some one will carry them. Reading my character sheet is the privilege of being in a guild with me… where’s your guildies?

Nike.2631:

You want to inspect me, I want to get on with doing the content rather than standing around posturing. And I carry a set of ‘zerker around with me I DON’T ACTUALLY WEAR that I can ping for you any time you’d like.

I hope I am reading that wrong because if you are pinging zerk gear to get into zerk groups and then not wearing it, then that is utterly pathetic.

No

I am against a party wide DPS meter.
I am for a personal DPS meter.

Also ANet should add

An initiate kick and accepted kick count meter on a each person portrait (only count the kick if the kicked person was online, do not count of the kick person was offline).

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?

Don’t pug. Problem solved.

Dee Jay.2460:

I would like DPS meters in game but for a different reason. Not to promote (or justify) elitism, but rather to offer a practical look at theorycrafting, something tat is entirely done on spreadsheets.

Currently, if the spreadsheets says Runes of Strength > all then that’s hard to argue against even if it’s not so in practical game-play.

Runes of the Pack, Runes of Scholar etc. could all have their moments of Glory or situational advantages that currently simply aren’t reflected when just using spreadsheets.

But to be honest, Anet is pushing that elitism.

If you start putting DPS-checks on open world content, what else are you doing?

What content is so hard you need to inspect people o_O

mrauls.6519:

What content is so hard you need to inspect people o_O

The issue is here the inability to read (lfg) and being honest (link gear A while wear gear B).

Xae Isareth.1364:

But to be honest, Anet is pushing that elitism.

If you start putting DPS-checks on open world content, what else are you doing?

Building well does not equal elitism.

It is fair to say that given the ability to respec on the fly and given the newer content requires somewhat more organization and gearing. Anet perhaps wants players to at least try and adapt/tailor/build well for specific content.

That is not a bad thing, nor elitist.

Dalanor.5387:

mrauls.6519:

What content is so hard you need to inspect people o_O

The issue is here the inability to read (lfg) and being honest (link gear A while wear gear.

That doesn’t answer my question

mrauls.6519:

Dalanor.5387:

mrauls.6519:

What content is so hard you need to inspect people o_O

The issue is here the inability to read (lfg) and being honest (link gear A while wear gear.

That doesn’t answer my question

A dps meter/inspect is not used to overcome “hard” content, it is used to tweak/maximise your/your groups performance and/or to make the run as efficient and fast as possible. So your question is a bit odd.

I’ve actually played a game with a DPS meter now, and I’ve found the tool to be nearly useless.

The DPS you do is in direct proportion to how much damage other people do. Taken the extremes (1 zerker, 4 clerics vs 4 zerkers, 1 cleric) for example: in the 1z4c party, that one zerker is doing far more damage than the other players are, causing his DPS to be high. But, in the 4z1c party, he’s just average with everyone else, and because all the monsters die quicker, his overall damage per second plummets.

Compare that to the cleric gear guy. With everyone being the same in a group (say, 5 clerics), their damage will seem fine both absolutely and relatively, since they’ll get to do a larger proportion of the damage overall. But, throw on exceptions, and one person appears a lot weaker than the other.

Because of this, without careful experimentation, nearly any kind of meter (private, public, end of dungeon or up to date) doesn’t provide absolute or valuable data about yourself. It just provides relative data.

Second, the meter really doesn’t teach someone. We have a players who run PVT, Clerics, and Rabid in PVE because they’ve assumed a role. Telling them that they’re doing less damage doesn’t stop them from assuming this role.

This also doesn’t instruct players on what they’re doing wrong. This requires initiative, innovation, and research on the players part. As far as they’ll be able to tell, differences in damage are freak occurrences, because from group to group their DPS never holds stationary.

Third, DPS meters are often shallow and neglect other useful information. For example, on my ele I’ll sometimes use elemental attunement to constantly pop protection for the rest of my party. While protection is quite valuable for keeping people alive, going into earth attunement constantly reduces my deeps, and the meter will not show what the compensation for this is.

All in all, I see very little use for a DPS meter.

Fenrir.3609:

mrauls.6519:

Dalanor.5387:

mrauls.6519:

What content is so hard you need to inspect people o_O

The issue is here the inability to read (lfg) and being honest (link gear A while wear gear.

That doesn’t answer my question

A dps meter/inspect is not used to overcome “hard” content, it is used to tweak/maximise your/your groups performance and/or to make the run as efficient and fast as possible. So your question is a bit odd.

That’s not true. Dps meters and inspect options don’t come with inherent uses. They’re tools. The owner chooses what to do with them and for what purpose.

DPS meters and inspecting aren’t needed in this game

runeblade.7514:

1. The other way around works too. If someone else plays how they want which I don’t approve, it will infringe on how I want them to play if I let them in my party….

Fixed it for you.

mrauls.6519:

That’s not true. Dps meters and inspect options don’t come with inherent uses. They’re tools. The owner chooses what to do with them and for what purpose.

It is a tool that people use, I outlined a use for it. A use which has nothing at all to do with the content being “hard” or not.

Again, your question “what content is so hard it needs inspect?” is odd/irrelevant.

I just gearcheck and kick. Works pretty ok.

It is a tool that people use, I outlined a use for it. A use which has nothing at all to do with the content being “hard” or not.

Again, your question “what content is so hard it needs inspect?” is odd/irrelevant.

False. You stated, and I quote, “A dps meter/inspect is not used to overcome “hard” content”. That is not outlining a use, that is defining a use. Now, I’m one all for hearty discussion, but I won’t deal with people that speak in falsities or bend their previous words. The only thing odd/irrelevant here is your personality. DPS meters will only ostracize people. It’s not needed

Nike.2631:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would like to see these two things in game.

Nothing wrong with wanting it. The real question is do they want you as a customer, or me? Because what you’re asking for puts a chasm between those two outcomes.

You want to inspect me, I want to get on with doing the content rather than standing around posturing. And I carry a set of ‘zerker around with me I DON’T ACTUALLY WEAR that I can ping for you any time you’d like. Because I know my build, how to play it, and what my exact requirements are to not bring the team down by my being face-planted. Oh yeah, and zealot/keeper didn’t just take a big ol nerf bat to the face.

Really I’m more convinced people who want to inspect PUGs are double checking that some one will carry them. Reading my character sheet is the privilege of being in a guild with me… where’s your guildies?

This is actually sad to read. Just admit you don’t use berserker and leave the group, it’s people like you who are causing tension between berserker and non-berserker users.

mrauls.6519:

False. You stated, and I quote, “A dps meter/inspect is not used to overcome “hard” content”. That is not outlining a use, that is defining a use. Now, I’m one all for hearty discussion, but I won’t deal with people that speak in falsities or bend their previous words. The only thing odd/irrelevant here is your personality. DPS meters will only ostracize people. It’s not needed

It is defining one use and also pointing out that your question “what is so hard it needs one?” is largely irrelevant (i’m sorry that seems to upset you it wasn’t meant to offend). And yes, I stand by my statement that it not used to overcome hard content.

People are not requesting inspect or a dps meter because as it stands without them they cannot complete a dungeon or a fractal. They are asking for them for reasons outside of the remit of “the content is too hard without it”.

Fenrir.3609:

saye.9304:

please report this person calyx.9086 he deserve a ban.
people like him are the reason this game must avoid elitism and never give them tools to make things easier for them to be rude toward others.

Actually the worst aspect of this community is the insanely self entitled crowd who hide behind a warped version of the “play how I want” mantra and go around crying about “elitists” all the time.

People wanting to group with other efficient players is not bad, wrong or damaging for the community. The people who expect to be able to walk into any party with their PVT staff cleric etc regardless as to what the other people in said party want, or those people who carry zerk gear, ping it and then use something else. They are the people who stink up the place quite frankly.

“Play how I want” does not mean that you have a god given right to walk into other peoples groups. Nor does it mean that people should not have access to helpful tools simply because you don’t specifically want to use them.

The correlation between a dps meter and how “rude” the games community is, is also being vastly overstated.

i always make my group and ask for experienced players if we get not experienced player usually rest of group kick him before me. but i never disrespect them i usually tell them why they are being kicked so if they are new players they will learn how to play or what to do.
again you are another prove that this game must stay away from elitism, telling those guys they stink up the place and some other things rather than helping them and just simply kick them.
there are ton of games out there offering elitism with tools like dps meter. you are welcome to go there. just do not come here and whine about similar stuff in a game that particularly advertised as non traditional mmo. what you are doing is pathetic.

Fenrir.3609:

mrauls.6519:

False. You stated, and I quote, “A dps meter/inspect is not used to overcome “hard” content”. That is not outlining a use, that is defining a use. Now, I’m one all for hearty discussion, but I won’t deal with people that speak in falsities or bend their previous words. The only thing odd/irrelevant here is your personality. DPS meters will only ostracize people. It’s not needed

It is defining one use and also pointing out that your question “what is so hard it needs one?” is largely irrelevant (i’m sorry that seems to upset you so). And yes, I stand by my statement that it not used to overcome hard content.

People are not requesting inspect or a dps meter because as it stands without them they cannot complete a dungeon or a fractal. They are asking for them for reasons outside of the remit of “the content is too hard without it”.

If they want those things for reasons entirely separate from being able to beat hard content (for them), but to ensure they only get the players they want in their party, then there are already plenty of tools available. Join a guild that’s built just for that purpose, build a section of your friendlist just for likeminded people. I dont know, maybe have some trust?

saye.9304:

i always make my group and ask for experienced players if we get not experienced player usually rest of group kick him before me. but i never disrespect them i usually tell them why they are being kicked so if they are new players they will learn how to play or what to do.
again you are another prove that this game must stay away from elitism, telling those guys they stink up the place and some other things rather than helping them and just simply kick them.
there are ton of games out there offering elitism with tools like dps mete. you are welcome to go there. just do not come here and whine about similar stuff in a game that particularly advertised as non traditional mmo. what you are doing is pathetic.

People who expect to be able to walk into any group regardless and who do ping zerk gear than use something else, i.e. lie through their front teeth ARE bad for the community and do “stink up the place”. I stand by that.

They don’t need “help”, they are intentionally lying to get carried or moaning because they feel every other player owes them, that they must let them in their group regardless.

Now people who are new or simply use non zerk gear, non meta builds, don’t have an interest in that kind of thing. All power to them I’m all for that. I do “help” them as and when I can and enjoy grouping with them from time to time. But frankly they don’t need “help” (new players aside) as they are having fun doing the game the non meta/efficient route. But these people are not the people I mentioned in terms of “stinking up the place” now are they. Which makes the tone of your post all the more odd.

You will also note I’m not “whining” about the lack of dps meter. I don’t think we will ever get one and I don’t really care. But some of the arguments against having one are simply tantamount to crying “elitists” over and over again.

I’ll ignore the last part of your post as you seem to have completely and misread mine.

This “carry” thing is a bit misleading. You can completely nearly all content in the game in clerics or soldiers. Played well enough, inferior stat combinations are more than self sufficient. I mean, if they are wearing greens or something, then that you might call that carrying because they are undergeared and need to be supported.

Aidan Savage.2078:

If they want those things for reasons entirely separate from being able to beat hard content (for them), but to ensure they only get the players they want in their party, then there are already plenty of tools available. Join a guild that’s built just for that purpose, build a section of your friendlist just for likeminded people. I dont know, maybe have some trust?

The same could be said for people who don’t want to use a DPS meter. Join a guild which doesn’t use one or build a friendlist of like minded people.

Or you know, we could just have the tool there and implement it in a way that shows up in LFG at group creation. If you want to use it, join a group with it flagged active, if not join one with flagged off.

Most do run in premades, why should they not have access to a potentially useful tool?

To be perfectly honest the most convincing argument as to why a dps meter is not needed/bad has nothing at all to do with “muh community” and everything to do with whether it is really any use. Blood Red Arachnid.2493’s post has been far more convincing from an anti-DPS meter point of view than any of the hyperbole spouted about “elitists” et al.

Personally although I would like to see them, I to am not convinced entirely of their use in the game.

As for trust, that is a good one, given in this very thread we have someone talking about pinging zerk gear then using something else…

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This “carry” thing is a bit misleading. You can completely nearly all content in the game in clerics or soldiers. Played well enough, inferior stat combinations are more than self sufficient. I mean, if they are wearing greens or something, then that you might call that carrying because they are undergeared and need to be supported.

They are getting “carried” in terms of the anticipated speed of the run. You can faceroll through pretty much all the content (and solo a great deal of it) in tanky gear/builds but it will take a while longer than a dps team.

Now those trying to get into zerk runs in tanky gear are doing so because they want to get through the content quickly, being carried on the back of other players dps, whilst they use suboptimal gear/builds . i.e. they are being carried.

I’d do the same thing myself if I didnt already run dungeons and fractals with my guild. Quite frankly if I built my character in a way that’s not the meta, it’s because I find the meta a poor combination for my character and how I play my character. Sure maybe the meta is slightly better in dungeons, but I strongly doubt the meta is as effective in Fractals, where bosses (even trash mobs) are far more difficult than dungeons. Not to mention there are many occasions where you simply cant dodge everything and are forced to take hits.

Aidan Savage.2078:

I’d do the same thing myself if I didnt already run dungeons and fractals with my guild. Quite frankly if I built my character in a way that’s not the meta, it’s because I find the meta a poor combination for my character and how I play my character. Sure maybe the meta is slightly better in dungeons, but I strongly doubt the meta is as effective in Fractals, where bosses (even trash mobs) are far more difficult than dungeons. Not to mention there are many occasions where you simply cant dodge everything and are forced to take hits.

You know …. There are meta builds for Fractals too …

edit:
And ofc just excuses. Poor evidence for lack of knowledge. But check out lfg how false the statement of “zerkorgtfo”. Cheers and wellcome on my block list.

@Fenrir.3609

did you read post made by calyx.9086 and you defended him he said most of gw2 players are kitten poor meaning even against what you said learn to read before you open your mouth your first reply to me remember. btw read his post( calyx.9086) on first page,
you did it because you are just like him but now you are backing off because people are fighting back. and you say i did not mean this you misunderstood me i meant that.
again pathetic.

Dalanor.5387:

Aidan Savage.2078:

I’d do the same thing myself if I didnt already run dungeons and fractals with my guild. Quite frankly if I built my character in a way that’s not the meta, it’s because I find the meta a poor combination for my character and how I play my character. Sure maybe the meta is slightly better in dungeons, but I strongly doubt the meta is as effective in Fractals, where bosses (even trash mobs) are far more difficult than dungeons. Not to mention there are many occasions where you simply cant dodge everything and are forced to take hits.

You know …. There are meta builds for Fractals too …

Really? Because all I see people posting is “zerkorgtfo” like it’s the end-all-be-all. Quite frankly I dont care about Fractal meta either. My build works great for me, it’s never had any issues, and when I’ve earned the last 20 levels of my PR running Fractal 38s and higher, I’ve no desire to change something that works. If it happens to be the meta, oh well.

saye.9304:

@Fenrir.3609

did you read post made by calyx.9086 and you defended him he said most of gw2 players are kitten poor meaning even against what you said learn to read before you open your mouth your first reply to me remember. btw read his post( calyx.9086) on first page,
you did it because you are just like him but now you are backing off because people are fighting back. and you say i did not mean this you misunderstood me i meant that.
again pathetic.

What?

I read his post, could you perhaps quote the part of my post which states that I agree that everyone is “kitten poor”?

Out of interest what am I “backing off” from exactly?

People who are so self entitled that they think they should be able to walk into any group, people who ping one set of gear and then use another in order to get into a specfic group. Yes, these people are far worse for the community than the “elitists” everyone seems to like bashing in threads like this. I stand by that sentiment.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dee Jay.2460:

I would like DPS meters in game but for a different reason. Not to promote (or justify) elitism, but rather to offer a practical look at theorycrafting, something tat is entirely done on spreadsheets.

Currently, if the spreadsheets says Runes of Strength > all then that’s hard to argue against even if it’s not so in practical game-play.

Runes of the Pack, Runes of Scholar etc. could all have their moments of Glory or situational advantages that currently simply aren’t reflected when just using spreadsheets.

But to be honest, Anet is pushing that elitism.

If you start putting DPS-checks on open world content, what else are you doing?

A.Net doesn’t push Elitism – that is a player only trait. Just like saying the meta is decided by A.Net, that is all pushed by players. A.net sets the game, players decide what they like or dislike.

It’s actually kind of sad that trying to play well, carry your own weight, and get the most out of your character is now seen as elitist.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

It’s actually kind of sad that trying to play well, carry your own weight, and get the most out of your character is now seen as elitist.

It has nothing to do with that, I too like to “play” with my build to get the most out it in any given situation. Where it starts to enter into the grey territory is when players are being “told” what to do and wear. Nobody likes being told what to do and as this is an MMO and not a job you cannot blame them. It goes right into the black when a total stranger messages you to tell you that you are a “noob” and to “get real gear ya looser”.

As you can see a mostly harmless tool for you could become an absolute kitten for others. As has been said “don’t join groups that require gear checks”, but if used in the open world to harass others would it not be another story?

Tommyknocker.6089:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

It’s actually kind of sad that trying to play well, carry your own weight, and get the most out of your character is now seen as elitist.

It has nothing to do with that, I too like to “play” with my build to get the most out it in any given situation. Where it starts to enter into the grey territory is when players are being “told” what to do and wear. Nobody likes being told what to do and as this is an MMO and not a job you cannot blame them. It goes right into the black when a total stranger messages you to tell you that you are a “noob” and to “get real gear ya looser”.

As you can see a mostly harmless tool for you could become an absolute kitten for others. As has been said “don’t join groups that require gear checks”, but if used in the open world to harass others would in not be another story?

It wasnt an issue in other MMO’s, why GW2 must be an exception? Playhowiwants make toxic environment and tension in the playerbase. :/ Reason? Nothing.

Take WoW as an example, because everybody knows it. You looking for a paladin tank. A frost mage joins in with PvP gear and talents. What would you do?

• GW2 verison: You say hi, give him cookie and let him tank and wonder why its harder.
• WoW version: Kick and get what you actually want.

Example#2. You search for a paladin tank again. Paladin tank appears, but have heal talents / healing gear on him and refuse to change. What would you do?

• GW2 verison: You say hi, give him cookie and let him tank and wonder why its harder.
• WoW version: Kick and get what you actually want.

I hope it makes a sense what i mean.
One side of the playerbase, lets call them “elitists” wants a tool, for make theorycrafting easier and to make valid points about their stuff. Ofc it would encourage future elitism, but it already exists, so at least they got a proof how pvt staff guardians arent the same dps as zerkers, as stated above.
On the other side, lets call them “casuals”, this situation seem to be a problem, that the would get outcasted. But its already a thing, so at least people have proof for things.

As in this and other numerous threads we have seen, people just lie about their builds and want to get carried. We have seen the complaints about getting kicked for this reason. We ask, “Why dont you make your own groups with likeminded people?” and they answer “ITS SLOW!”. Adapt then, we said. No, they said. And here we are. Full of people, who refuse to learn, to adapt, to work as a team. People want proof against this.

You see Anet nerfed critical damage because too many people equip berserk’s set.

Your idea will force every player to equip same build.
That’s not this game is designed for.

triggerhappy.3871:

You see Anet nerfed critical damage because too many people equip berserk’s set.

False.

Your idea will force every player to equip same build.

They already refuse to use that one.

That’s not this game is designed for.

Which Arena net employee you are?

Fenrir.3609:

Aidan Savage.2078:

If they want those things for reasons entirely separate from being able to beat hard content (for them), but to ensure they only get the players they want in their party, then there are already plenty of tools available. Join a guild that’s built just for that purpose, build a section of your friendlist just for likeminded people. I dont know, maybe have some trust?

The same could be said for people who don’t want to use a DPS meter. Join a guild which doesn’t use one or build a friendlist of like minded people.

Actually, it doesn’t work in the reverse, because you’re asking people who enjoy an inclusive playstyle to use exclusive functions. Those who want a DPS meter for the purpose of checking others’ performance to ensure they are on the level they want enjoy an exclusive playstyle, which tight organization through guilds/friends lists complement – you know the people, you know the performance they are expected to put out, and you can organize with them reliably.

The non-performance check crowd that plays more casually don’t care who they end up linking with or how that person plays/is effective – THey’re inclusive to everyone, and it’s impossible to build a friends list or guild that includes “Everyone in the game except exclusively-minded players”, and defeats the purpose of being an inclusive player anyway.

Dalanor.5387:

mrauls.6519:

What content is so hard you need to inspect people o_O

The issue is here the inability to read (lfg) and being honest (link gear A while wear gear.

Or you are just assuming that they are not when they really are. You will never know.

And remember, you are completely free to build a guild or group of like minded friends who also wish to minmax their dungeon runs and you can play with the same group of people day to day. And that way you can always be sure people are geared properly without having to check