Guild Wars 2

Just a little feedback for ANet and something they might have not considered when designing the Mordrem bosses. At least in the new bossfights, dead people are everywhere. Now I get it, sometimes you have lagg, sometimes you can’t react in time, whatever. But after the 4th or 5th time today of me being the only one alive at amber (out of ~20 people) I’ve had enough! What’s wrong with all those players?
Their useless body is needlessly scaling the boss up, they attract other players who might get tricked into thinking ressing the completely dead is a good idea instead of doing damage/popping bubbles, and let’s be honest, those bossfights are a damage race. They are actively dragging down the whole map by just lying there!

Why not just WP and run again? The rewards are given to everyone who participated, even those outside the area without the downsides of being a burden to everybody else, most of all the guy who has to solo the fricking boss because apparently 20 people can’t be bothered to move outside of the bright orange zone and just die within one or two minutes. By now most players have realized how to make gold/silver vulnerable but 90% of the time I (reluctantly, because of this very reason,)command indigo I see it fail because around three quarters of my little zerglings run straight into their AoE and get killed after around a minute or so. Now that’s fine but why for gods sake are you not WP’ing, thus making the fight harder for everybody else?!

I don’t mind bad players, but as it stands now they are an actual burden not only to myself but the whole map and from what I’ve seen the sole reason 5/5 rarely happens.
So please ANet, for future bossfights please auto-WP dead players to the nearest waypoint, maybe even free of charge. (Pretty please.)

PS: Sorry for making it sound a bit rant-y.

edit: Shamelessly changed topic name to attract more traffic.

I’d actually like to see that too. It’s a bit of a drag to have so many dead players just laying there doing nothing except trying to coach the living players. Or the ones who do nothing but repeat “res res”.

Xander.9024:

I’d actually like to see that too. It’s a bit of a drag to have so many dead players just laying there doing nothing except trying to coach the living players. Or the ones who do nothing but repeat “res res”.

My main gripe is that bosses scale according to the amount of bodies, not alive players.
It’s just frustrating to know that you are pulling the weight of maybe three or four other players who are just too lazy to just WP out.

I wouldn’t mind this as well. Perhaps a timer that sends you to the nearest waypoint after a specified amount of time. The timer stops of course, or resets, if someone has started reviving you.

teq would benefit from this. or at least it would have if we hadnt taught ourselves to do it already.

Eh, I have a problem with fully dead players being waypointed automatically, even if it’s free of charge. There may be instances where actually ressing a fully dead player is more beneficial, even if it’s rare to want to do so, if the possibility exists at all, it should be an option.

A better solution is for a dead player to simply no longer count towards event scaling.

auto-spawning to nearest WP after 45 seconds if not completely resurrected for all situations.
Of course in this time period of time you have the opportunity to teleport wherever you want if you want, but sometimes people just go AFK and don;t bother anymore.

also, each event should scale down with the number of people remained in a certain radius

Sometimes people don’t teleport because they wait to resurrected after the fight is done because they don’t get rewards so if you put the rewards in chests like we have now in Silverwastes then it is ok for people to teleport because they don;t loose the boss rewards

I think a major question should be asked before this change takes place:
Exactly how event scaling works.

The GW2 Wiki page:

Events scale both up and down according to the number of players who are currently participating. Events can scale in a number of ways:

Enemy stats can be increased
Enemies can gain new abilities
New enemy types may appear, including veterans or even champion versions
Enemy count can be increased
Objective requirements may increase

Most events scale for up to 10 players.Group events and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players. Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.

I do not like auto-waypointing in pve, in wvw it could be ok if it’s after a minute or so.

A little off subject but valid nevertheless is that downed players (whether they are just plain unlucky or got cornered by more beast-power than they could handle) inspire other players to take time out from their busy slaughter-thon to help them up. I spend a lot of my time in the Silverwastes doing this. Fact is as Arcos Shiningpaw I now spend my time between hard combat and helping others with emphasis on helping as the place would be a hellsapopping with corpses if somebody didn’t have a care and do so.

Infernia.9847:

Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.

This raises a few questions: what is “a period of time,” and which actions are related to an event?

Also, there is no reference link for that particular bolded line, and the reference links for the others are broken. So the dev team should still be consulted to verify that this is actually the case.

And if it’s true, and events can dynamically scale for afk or non contributing players, then that means they can also easily scale for dead players using similar lines of code, and they should be flagged as such instantly upon death, not within a window.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Infernia.9847:

I think a major question should be asked before this change takes place:
Exactly how event scaling works.

The GW2 Wiki page:

Events scale both up and down according to the number of players who are currently participating. Events can scale in a number of ways:

Enemy stats can be increased
Enemies can gain new abilities
New enemy types may appear, including veterans or even champion versions
Enemy count can be increased
Objective requirements may increase

Most events scale for up to 10 players.Group events and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players. Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.

Dang, I knew I should have consulted the wiki about that!

I wasn’t sure if scaling adjusted (as it clearly does) and that was one of the questions I was going to ask the devs. So thanks for sharing that info!

Well that’s all fine and from my experience scaling back does happen after a certain amount of time, that’s right, but with a 5 minute timelimit on those fights it just takes too long. Even if it takes 1 minute, the damage is already done considering the healthpools are rather high.

My proposition is instant scaling back if people move outside of a fights boundaries and a 10 second countdown when a person dies. The countdown is frozen when another players starts a ress and, should he not ress the player fully, starts at 10 seconds again.

I like being able to ress other palyers in the open world and at certain events
but at events with a timelimit, especially those that are as tight as the new bossfights this would move the focus from ‘yolo and leeche when you’re dead’ to more kind of trying to not die and be actually useful. As it stands dying for most players is something they don’t avoid because of a certain mindset that ‘better players’ will carry me anyways’.

Plus, ported palyers don’t loose out on rewards as account chests are awarded regardless of location.

Ps: Changing the title was probably the best thing; apologies if the initial one was offensive but I was rather agitated after repeatedly solo carrying a group of 20 other players.

Belenus.9132:

A little off subject but valid nevertheless is that downed players (whether they are just plain unlucky or got cornered by more beast-power than they could handle) inspire other players to take time out from their busy slaughter-thon to help them up. I spend a lot of my time in the Silverwastes doing this. Fact is as Arcos Shiningpaw I now spend my time between hard combat and helping others with emphasis on helping as the place would be a hellsapopping with corpses if somebody didn’t have a care and do so.

Being able to help downed players is a unique and awesome feature in this game. I like to do this myself but dead players, in a situation where time does matter, are a hindrance.

Infernia.9847:

The GW2 Wiki page:

Most events scale for up to 10 players.Group events and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players. Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.

- so in other words, all those dead players lying there are not scaling up the event? (after what? 45 sec? 15? since they went from downed to dead?) but in fact they would be scaling down the event instead? cool, we have to tell everybody cause im tired of typing:
“If dead pls WP you pieces of (followed by an unsavory choice of words) you r making the fight harder for the rest of us!!!”

well at least we know now. thxs Infernia

Crovax.7854:

My proposition is instant scaling back if people move outside of a fights boundaries and a 10 second countdown when a person dies. The countdown is frozen when another players starts a ress and, should he not ress the player fully, starts at 10 seconds again.

Is there a reason you feel there should be a 10 second window for a dead player? A dead player can’t do damage nor provide buffs, so in my opinion he should be immediately removed from the player pool for scaling.

Edit: And by removed I mean not counted towards the event difficulty scale, not removed from the area by automatically being waypointed.

Gaile Gray.6029:

This is an interesting idea. I’d love other feedback on this before taking questions to the dev team. (I’m sure they’ve thought of this, but there may be info to share on the subject.)

What do you guys think about auto-waypointing people (assuming after a certain period, of course) in the midst of specific types of combat encounters? And because I don’t think it’d work for every situation, can you specify which combat instances you believe would benefit from this functionality? Somehow I think dying to a rampaging bandit in Ashford wouldn’t count.

Crovax — I hope you don’t mind, but I changed “bad” to “downed” in the subject. It just seems better (and more relevant) that way. S’ok?

I think it should work opposite.

There should be NO waypointing at all, disabled in that area (only allowing you to WP somewhere far away/off the map) and dead players should just not be taken into account by the servers as alive players in these events. I say this because dungeons were changed to disallow WP zerging as that’s an unhealthy strategy.

Artanis.4963:

Infernia.9847:

Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.

This raises a few questions: what is “a period of time,” and which actions are related to an event?

I can see that period of time would be relevant. The defeated are taking no actions at all, so I’m guessing you have a different reason for asking about what actions “count.”

As to Gaile’s question whether an auto-port would be a good idea…

My guess is that for most players who are defeated, that would be directly related to how long the run back would be. Don’t get me wrong, I always port when defeated, but I mind it a lot less when the walk back is shorter. Running from Meddler’s to Grenth in CS, for instance, was too long. My guess is that people are lying there dead because they don’t want to run back, possibly because there is, iirc, only one WP in SW. Closer WP’s will result in some of those defeated players being willing to use them.

If an auto-port were to be put in, I’d recommend that whatever timer is deemed advisable pause if someone is actually trying to revive the defeated player.

Leo G.4501:

Gaile Gray.6029:

This is an interesting idea. I’d love other feedback on this before taking questions to the dev team. (I’m sure they’ve thought of this, but there may be info to share on the subject.)

What do you guys think about auto-waypointing people (assuming after a certain period, of course) in the midst of specific types of combat encounters? And because I don’t think it’d work for every situation, can you specify which combat instances you believe would benefit from this functionality? Somehow I think dying to a rampaging bandit in Ashford wouldn’t count.

Crovax — I hope you don’t mind, but I changed “bad” to “downed” in the subject. It just seems better (and more relevant) that way. S’ok?

I think it should work opposite.

There should be NO waypointing at all, disabled in that area (only allowing you to WP somewhere far away/off the map) and dead players should just not be taken into account by the servers as alive players in these events. I say this because dungeons were changed to disallow WP zerging as that’s an unhealthy strategy.

So those not wanting to do the event by want to use a nearby waypoint that’s not within the event radius should be punished?

Those that die have to remain dead for the whole event or risk losing access to the chest because it will take them too long to run back? Or they don’t have any nearby waypoint on that map?

Dungeons are not open world. Most of those events are zergs. Waypoint zerging does not make a huge difference for open world events that draw zergs.

Because if you make it for all events, you’ll lock out most waypoints most of them. If you limit them to world bosses, then waypoint zerging doesn’t really make a huge difference in the scheme of things.

Your solution will likely just make the issue worse. Those that would WP to a nearby WP will now just lay dead because it will take too long to run back and they risk losing loot.

SKATE.1394:

Crovax.7854:

My proposition is instant scaling back if people move outside of a fights boundaries and a 10 second countdown when a person dies. The countdown is frozen when another players starts a ress and, should he not ress the player fully, starts at 10 seconds again.

Is there a reason you feel there should be a 10 second window for a dead player? A dead player can’t do damage nor provide buffs, so in my opinion he should be immediately removed from the player pool for scaling.

Yes but that dead player will get event reward. Imagine this: group of 20 enters the boss area, 15 commit suicide and the 5 remaining kill it very quickly and all 20 get the reward.

This “window” can be abused to make fights considerably easier for the same rewards, something experience has shown that players of this game really really enjoy.

SKATE.1394:

Crovax.7854:

My proposition is instant scaling back if people move outside of a fights boundaries and a 10 second countdown when a person dies. The countdown is frozen when another players starts a ress and, should he not ress the player fully, starts at 10 seconds again.

Is there a reason you feel there should be a 10 second window for a dead player? A dead player can’t do damage nor provide buffs, so in my opinion he should be immediately removed from the player pool for scaling.

That’s rigth but I think it would be unfair to completely remove the option of being revived. Imagine a group of friends doing one of the bosses or a map organized by a guild. From a gameplay standpoint it’s better to just do damage but if you have social ties to the dead player it’s sometimes in your interest to revive them.
Flat out removing them deprives them of that chance and I think a 10 second countdown strikes a good balance between ‘being able to revive the player’ and ‘removing them in a timely manner so he doesn’t hinder the others’.

maddoctor.2738:

SKATE.1394:

Crovax.7854:

My proposition is instant scaling back if people move outside of a fights boundaries and a 10 second countdown when a person dies. The countdown is frozen when another players starts a ress and, should he not ress the player fully, starts at 10 seconds again.

Is there a reason you feel there should be a 10 second window for a dead player? A dead player can’t do damage nor provide buffs, so in my opinion he should be immediately removed from the player pool for scaling.

Yes but that dead player will get event reward. Imagine this: group of 20 enters the boss area, 15 commit suicide and the 5 remaining kill it very quickly and all 20 get the reward.

This “window” can be abused to make fights considerably easier for the same rewards, something experience has shown that players of this game really really enjoy.

No, because that’s why we even have scaling in the first place. 20 people alive scale the boss in a manner that’s challenging for 20 players. 5 players alive scale the boss in a manner that’s challenging for 5 players.
There’ll always be leechers but at least that way they won’t impact the rest of us negatively. (edit: provided scaling happens immediatly)

It’s been a problem for a long time now actually because they simply have not taking the time to make the downed state a universal experience.

There are no trait options to help some classes get back up, some class’ abilities do not do enough damage to get them back on their feet, and some classes grab aggro like crazy instead of those that do more damage or are lower hitpoints who are nearby. I’ve played an Engineer since beta and I can tell you that not only do we aggro while in a downed state worse than anyone else, there is also a 95% guarantee even with all of the downed traits that we are going to die before someone can rez us even with all of our chemicals and gadgets you’d think someone would have found a way to help keep us alive beyond a single potion for a single build. smh

Seera.5916:

So those not wanting to do the event by want to use a nearby waypoint that’s not within the event radius should be punished?

If those same people got killed in the event somehow, then I suppose so. If those people are just passing by, what’s stopping them from running away, getting to safety and out of combat and then WPing somewhere they want to be?

Those that die have to remain dead for the whole event or risk losing access to the chest because it will take them too long to run back? Or they don’t have any nearby waypoint on that map?

In a nutshell. As it is, the events are already pretty easy that you don’t even have to really know the fight, just do damage. Having the encounter instantly scale back (or near instantly) when a player dies also is making the encounter easier. If loot acquisition is an issue because of a change to make an encounter the proper challenge level, then alter loot acquisition accordingly.

Dungeons are not open world. Most of those events are zergs. Waypoint zerging does not make a huge difference for open world events that draw zergs.

Because if you make it for all events, you’ll lock out most waypoints most of them. If you limit them to world bosses, then waypoint zerging doesn’t really make a huge difference in the scheme of things.

Your solution will likely just make the issue worse. Those that would WP to a nearby WP will now just lay dead because it will take too long to run back and they risk losing loot.

I’m not going to argue for or against zerg-rushing further.

Leo G.4501:

Seera.5916:

So those not wanting to do the event by want to use a nearby waypoint that’s not within the event radius should be punished?

If those same people got killed in the event somehow, then I suppose so. If those people are just passing by, what’s stopping them from running away, getting to safety and out of combat and then WPing somewhere they want to be?

You did not read what I posted correctly.

Person on Map B wants to go to WP 1 on Map A. However, WP 1 on Map A is near an event, but not near enough that it would be contested due to the event. Should THEY be punished and not be able to go to WP 1 because there’s an event nearby?

Because WP’s that are already pretty much on top of any event are already locked out to both participants and non-participants of events.

Your suggestion will just make things worse.

Seera.5916:

Leo G.4501:

Seera.5916:

So those not wanting to do the event by want to use a nearby waypoint that’s not within the event radius should be punished?

If those same people got killed in the event somehow, then I suppose so. If those people are just passing by, what’s stopping them from running away, getting to safety and out of combat and then WPing somewhere they want to be?

You did not read what I posted correctly.

Person on Map B wants to go to WP 1 on Map A. However, WP 1 on Map A is near an event, but not near enough that it would be contested due to the event. Should THEY be punished and not be able to go to WP 1 because there’s an event nearby?

Because WP’s that are already pretty much on top of any event are already locked out to both participants and non-participants of events.

Your suggestion will just make things worse.

If the WP isn’t contested and you aren’t dead or in combat, then how does that pertain to what is being suggested?

If you are dead and you happen to be in that event, the options should encourage others to rez you.

The only problem I have with Defeated players (not Downed ones) is that they take so much longer to rez and you can’t tell them apart from Downed players without trying to rez them. All you see is a sea of undifferentiated rez icons. Here are a few changes I’d like to see, in order from smallest change to largest:

1. Change the icons for Defeated players to be different than Downed players. Perhaps make them red or black. You should be able to tell in a sea of icons which are beyond saving.

2. Adjust the input priority of rezzing Defeated players such that it never ever takes priority over other options. If you’re within a 5m radius of a Defeated player, a Downed player, a Defeated core NPC (like a cargo bull or fort commander), an enemy that could be looted, a chest, and a bundle, then if you hit F repeatedly the order in which these things are activated should be Loot > Key NPC > Downed Player >Chest > Bundle >Defeated Player.

3. Any Defeated player should instantly be removed from the scaling roles.

4. Raise the speed of rezzing Defeated players so it isn’t such a complete waste of everyone’s time. Rezzing a player from Defeated should not take more time than rezzing from Downed.

5. As Tigris noted, the Downed state is highly variable between classes, with some being very strong and some being practically worthless. Every class needs to have a position-shifting ability, at the minimum, because falling on top of a hot zone and being unable to move out of it is just game over.

6. Specific to the Silverwastes bosses (and similar events) if you have players enter a boss fight in a way where fall damage is a likely result, account for that somehow. Perhaps have a massive heal pulse when they hit the ground, or give them temporary Invulnerability as they pass through or something so that the fall damage is negated.

Leo G.4501:

Seera.5916:

Leo G.4501:

Seera.5916:

So those not wanting to do the event by want to use a nearby waypoint that’s not within the event radius should be punished?

If those same people got killed in the event somehow, then I suppose so. If those people are just passing by, what’s stopping them from running away, getting to safety and out of combat and then WPing somewhere they want to be?

You did not read what I posted correctly.

Person on Map B wants to go to WP 1 on Map A. However, WP 1 on Map A is near an event, but not near enough that it would be contested due to the event. Should THEY be punished and not be able to go to WP 1 because there’s an event nearby?

Because WP’s that are already pretty much on top of any event are already locked out to both participants and non-participants of events.

Your suggestion will just make things worse.

If the WP isn’t contested and you aren’t dead or in combat, then how does that pertain to what is being suggested?

If you are dead and you happen to be in that event, the options should encourage others to rez you.

And it takes an INCREDIBLY long time to rez someone who is fully down. Meaning it takes another person out of the fight.

It’s much better to just let the person WP to a nearby WP so that they can actually actively participate again. Open world isn’t dungeons. They do not need to be treated equally because they are two different things.

WP zerging isn’t a problem in the open world. You’re making a solution to a non-existent problem.

Ohoni.6057:

The only problem I have with Defeated players (not Downed ones) is that they take so much longer to rez and you can’t tell them apart from Downed players without trying to rez them. All you see is a sea of undifferentiated rez icons. Here are a few changes I’d like to see, in order from smallest change to largest:

1. Change the icons for Defeated players to be different than Downed players. Perhaps make them red or black. You should be able to tell in a sea of icons which are beyond saving.

The icons are different. Downed is a light blue icon, defeated is a black and white version of the same icon. Same icon but different. The difference between a red traffic signal and a green one. It’s subtle but I personally haven’t had much of a problem telling the difference. The similarities may be exacerbated in a crowded area but then again, a lot of visual issues pop up in crowded areas.

The icons are different. Downed is a light blue icon, defeated is a black and white version of the same icon. Same icon but different.

To hard to tell apart when there’s a sea of them, especially when NPCs are also white. The more important element is to have the game always aggressively prioritize Downed players over Defeated ones, so that you never even begin to rez a Defeated one until all the nearby Downed ones are up.

Crovax.7854:

Just a little feedback for ANet and something they might have not considered when designing the Mordrem bosses. At least in the new bossfights, dead people are everywhere. Now I get it, sometimes you have lagg, sometimes you can’t react in time, whatever. But after the 4th or 5th time today of me being the only one alive at amber (out of ~20 people) I’ve had enough! What’s wrong with all those players?

With so many newer players running around without traits, this is a very valid point. Might be just me, but I see so many dieing easily these days ….. everywhere!
+1 on WP if dead, sure would help.

I did say we should find out “Exactly” how event scaling works before asking the devs to change anything. The wiki does not even give an approximate amount of time that the programming code ‘checks’ the conditions for up-scaling or down-scaling.

If the amount of time is high such as say 60 seconds, then maybe the request should be more along the lines of asking the devs for a faster poll/check for conditions so that downed/dead players don’t continue to upscale until the next poll/check.

Personal note: I too am more likely to stop what I’m doing to help a downed player. I also know the pain of fighting in an outnumbered situation with dead and dying at my feet. And then I see it, that beautiful chest of loot pop up from the ground and try to press F. But, the last of my health is done. I die, I run back with all the swiftness I can muster and the chest has vanished beneath the ground from whence it came.

Seera.5916:

Leo G.4501:

Seera.5916:

Leo G.4501:

Seera.5916:

So those not wanting to do the event by want to use a nearby waypoint that’s not within the event radius should be punished?

If those same people got killed in the event somehow, then I suppose so. If those people are just passing by, what’s stopping them from running away, getting to safety and out of combat and then WPing somewhere they want to be?

You did not read what I posted correctly.

Person on Map B wants to go to WP 1 on Map A. However, WP 1 on Map A is near an event, but not near enough that it would be contested due to the event. Should THEY be punished and not be able to go to WP 1 because there’s an event nearby?

Because WP’s that are already pretty much on top of any event are already locked out to both participants and non-participants of events.

Your suggestion will just make things worse.

If the WP isn’t contested and you aren’t dead or in combat, then how does that pertain to what is being suggested?

If you are dead and you happen to be in that event, the options should encourage others to rez you.

And it takes an INCREDIBLY long time to rez someone who is fully down. Meaning it takes another person out of the fight.

It’s much better to just let the person WP to a nearby WP so that they can actually actively participate again. Open world isn’t dungeons. They do not need to be treated equally because they are two different things.

WP zerging isn’t a problem in the open world. You’re making a solution to a non-existent problem.

Like I said, I’m not going to argue for or against zerg-rush tactics here.

Bosses should have a special aura that applies to defeated players. Under this aura, they should not appear defeated (revivable) to other players but as dead characters with no interaction. Once defeated, a timer should popup that forces a waypoint after a certain amount of time. If the boss is defeated however, the aura should dissipate and these players would once again be revivable.

For comparison, this would be like Frozen Soil in GW1.

I’ve seen far too many people refuse to waypoint, even if it’s right there. Why would you when you can AFK and simply collect your rewards. If only contribution actually mattered.

Low DPS players are also a problem, especially when it comes to timed events. When I can solo a group event faster than a group, you know there’s something wrong. I’ve practically solo’d (1 other person usually shows up) the troll (amber) and the thrasher (blue) for example, so when it fails, lol.

Infernia.9847:

Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.

This doesn’t seem to work. I’ve solo’d a lot of events and have seen both AFK players and players doing something else within an event area cause an event to upscale. Adds that have spawned during an event will also never downscale, although the main boss will.

Instead of anyone complaining, ask yourselves what are you doing to help prevent players from dieing? Maybe the design requires there to be a couple of combat medic’s in the hole? Maybe someone should bring in a Hammer Guardian setup to tank and heal? Players are so Zerker happy and think active defense can and should save them of everything. If the Dev’s design it right, these bosses should wipe everyone without at least some sustain in the group compliment.

Here’s an example, remember the Tower of Nightmares? Players were having a hard time and I chose to be proactive by pinning up and running groups thru that tower for hours on end that first week. Every pass was pretty easy because I set my Warrior up for combat medic duties with a HamBow / Banner Regen. That and dropping trays of food in the staging area helped insured smooth runs.

Asking the Dev’s to remove players from “your” area isn’t helpful. BE helpful by helping other players succeed. Then you’ll succeed in that content too.

I’m going to say, I spent the weekend camping Amber to get The Executioner to spawn. We got him to spawn twice, but didn’t succeed. Then this morning, he spawned again.. I know I hit him multiple times, I died twice and and waypointed. While running back the second time, I made it to the gate as he died.. and NO reward… I probably won’t wp again in the future, if I’m not going to get the reward cause I was running back or in the middle of waypointing. I now have to do it all again, to get the achievement… it sucks. Took me 3 days to get to today, to have him actually killed on the server instance I was in.. and I didn’t get it. VERY frustrating!!!!

In the case of Indigo one has to take into consideration the distance between the waypoint and where the person died. As Indigo is the furthest away from the waypoint then one can expect to see more dead bodies. You will see this everywhere you have a major battle, the further away from an uncontested waypoint the more dead bodies you will have.

Possible solution? Have the totally dead auto removed from the battle but instead of placing them at the nearest uncontested waypoint have them dropped in a safe area just out of range of the action and give them a 10-20 seconds summon sickness such as when using a revive orb. That penalty would increase on consecutive deaths. Give people a few seconds to decide to waypoint and run back normally or be placed into the safe area with summon sickness.

Call it a M.A.S.H. if you will. You can have a Doctor in the unit (call him Hawkeye) that for a fee will remove the summon sickness, a nurse that will grant you a temporary speed boost so you can get back to the battle (Hotlips) and even a armor repair station (man that with Klinger, a guy with whiskers in a sexy dress)

:)

Trinibaje.7683:

I’m going to say, I spent the weekend camping Amber to get The Executioner to spawn. We got him to spawn twice, but didn’t succeed. Then this morning, he spawned again.. I know I hit him multiple times, I died twice and and waypointed. While running back the second time, I made it to the gate as he died.. and NO reward… I probably won’t wp again in the future. I now have to do it all again, to get the achievement… it sucks. Took me 3 days to get to today, to have him actually killed on the server instance I was in.. and I didn’t get it. VERY frustrating!!!!

And that’s part of the problem, tagging mobs and events. Take the Svanir Shaman chain for exemple, you just need one hit on the totem to get gold reward, on the other hand the event after with one veteran (event to the left of the totem) needs you to do more than a few hits to hoe for a bronze reward.
People are hoping for a rez so that they can tag the event/boss, because they don’t know if they did enough damages to get the reward. And people don’t wait either on a kill because they want to do as much damage as they can in fear of not getting the reward (happens a lot for guild bounties).

I wasn’t just tagging him.. I was actively participating, had been since Friday. I’ve spent many hours at Amber, protecting it and doing all the events, in the hope of getting the Executioner to spawn, as I would like to get the achievement. Unfortunately, the two previous times he spawned there weren’t enough players to succeed and the third time, I died and waypointed twice.. did not just lay there dead. I was also running back to get back into the fight. I am NOT one of the people that tag and wait, I actively participate in all the events I take part in, and I waypoint when dead. Have never had a problem until today with not receiving a reward while running back.

Dead players are never a problem in the open world events – with the exception of the new Silverwastes, because there is only one waypoint in the whole area.

In all of the bigger events in the open world, either it is not relevant if some dead players are around, or the players are kindly asked to use a waypoint (Tequatl, Golem II). Here we don’t need any fix, because nothing is broken.

But in the Silverwastes, you are not able to reach the legendary boss or The Breach event back in time if you use a waypoint. Even if you were, you have only seconds back into the fight before the event is over. Whenever I died in the Breach, I simply waited dead and hoped for either being resurrected or getting the event reward in case no one was able to resurrect. Staying dead usually means “personal fail, no reward”, but using a waypoint is just the same. So there is no point in using a waypoint. If I were resurrected, I get a second chance on the reward and would be of more help than I would be if I run 2 minutes through half of the map from the waypoint. So I simply wait.

After getting the bosses Silver and Gold in 2 different events with numerous fails in between, you can be sure that I will not try Indigo any more. Never.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Dead players are never a problem in the open world events – with the exception of the new Silverwastes, because there is only one waypoint in the whole area.

In all of the bigger events in the open world, either it is not relevant if some dead players are around, or the players are kindly asked to use a waypoint (Tequatl, Golem II). Here we don’t need any fix, because nothing is broken.

But in the Silverwastes, you are not able to reach the legendary boss or The Breach event back in time if you use a waypoint. Even if you were, you have only seconds back into the fight before the event is over. Whenever I died in the Breach, I simply waited dead and hoped for either being resurrected or getting the event reward in case no one was able to resurrect. Staying dead usually means “personal fail, no reward”, but using a waypoint is just the same. So there is no point in using a waypoint. If I were resurrected, I get a second chance on the reward and would be of more help than I would be if I run 2 minutes through half of the map from the waypoint. So I simply wait.

After getting the bosses Silver and Gold in 2 different events with numerous fails in between, you can be sure that I will not try Indigo any more. Never.

I feel the same way too. It took nearly two weeks for me to finally get the Gold boss, and since then I haven’t been back to Indigo during a breach event – I go for Platinum, Copper or Iron which are much easier to defeat. In fact, I seriously think that the Silver/Gold pair could do with a slight nerfing because the way the fight is set up, the way of defeating them is so particular that it’s really too difficult for many people to stick to in the heat of a battle. Rule of thumb: if it’s frustrating, it’s not fun.

Auto-WP after a set amount of time can be a good thing if players go afk or are showing botting-like tendencies (Dry Top afk-spam healing spring rangers). This can get rid of the trash so-to-speak and allow players to focus helping those that really need it.

Other than that I do not think it is needed. 4-5 players can get a dead player up pretty quickly. More players helping each-other can go a long ways towards success. The issue with SW might be more related to the Zerker meta finally hitting a road block. Maybe it’s time for some players to adjust their builds and playstyles?

Other set than berserker? No. For sure, I will not buy a new armor and retrait myself only for a single new zone. It would be too tedious to reskill/change armor every time I enter or leave the new zone. If it were necessary to do this, I simply would not enter that zone.

If it were possible to do this with a simple mouse click, for example with skill/build/armor templates, this would be a totally different thing and I would do this. In fact, I would like it having different play styles. But changing everything manually on zone change is a no-go. Weapons, armor, accessories, skill points, traits… no.

Gaile Gray.6029:

This is an interesting idea. I’d love other feedback on this before taking questions to the dev team. (I’m sure they’ve thought of this, but there may be info to share on the subject.)

What do you guys think about auto-waypointing people (assuming after a certain period, of course) in the midst of specific types of combat encounters? And because I don’t think it’d work for every situation, can you specify which combat instances you believe would benefit from this functionality? Somehow I think dying to a rampaging bandit in Ashford wouldn’t count.

Crovax — I hope you don’t mind, but I changed “bad” to “downed” in the subject. It just seems better (and more relevant) that way. S’ok?

YES, YES YES…

basically this should count for every world boss like Wurms, Tequatl, Shatterer, Jormags Claw, the Temple Undeads and so on…

it should count also for every Champion, where the event has reached a certain Scaling Level. So unless the Champion Battles get scaled up enougjh, the functino should be deactivated (this to ensure, hat some cheesy Bandi Champs don’t let this trigger, whereas fightign agaisnt one of those Mordrem Champs that are scaled up when lots of People fight agaisnt them, there it should get automatically activated, that people when they die, that the game shoukd automatically remove them and warp them to the nearest WP.

This either, or the game should get its Scaling System improved, that the Scaling Systems should take only living players into consideration and should begin to scale down so more players are completely defeated, so that defeated player don’t count anymore for the Scaling Systen, just only again if someone shoudl revive the defeated player,then the revived player should count again for the scaling.

PS. about dead people being an hindrance:

They wouldn’t be, if the speed of reviving defeated players wouln’t be so massively slowed down compared to reviving a downed player plus if our healings also wouldn’t get instantly gets halfed, jiust because somethign hit us, what slows reviving a defeated player even more and what is the reason, why it feels like such a huge hindrance to revive dead people, because reviving them is a huge waste of time and very oftenly also a real high risk to get downed self cause of the reaction speed while reviving takes longer to do a dodge, as when you are normally standing around.

I think if automatic WPing isn’t the way that solves all problems, then should ANet consider to increase the speed of reviving a fully defeated person. It shouldn#t be si siginificantly slower, than revivign a downed player.
Sure, you can speed up the process with more players reviving someoen at the same time, but that puts naturalyl alot more people then at the same tiem at the great risk to get downed from an attackof a boss, especially if its such a kind of super hard hittign AoE attack of the kind – dodge it, or be most likely instant downed if you dont get quickly out of the orange circle/line ect. ASAP

Reviving full defeated peopel feelsl like a pain in the peep, compared of reviving a downed person. So improvign in general the reviving mechanic could be a good alternative to Automatic Wping.

I understand the desire for auto-waypointing dead players, but I’m against it. I don’t think the argument is strong enough to change the mechanic for specific fights, though I think it might be helpful to display a message to a dead player after a set time with information on scaling. It could be phrased creatively to encourage them to waypoint for the good of the fight in in-game fashion rather than specifically talking about mechanics.

I did not know about boss fights scaling prior to reading this post. I tend to play the game more than I read the forums or the wiki, and I do wish certain things were more clear in-game. I think another quick fix would be for anyone in the fight to let other players know that it is better for the event if they waypoint & run back. A closer waypoint would encourage this as well.

A defeated player is not automatically a bad player. They may be simply less well-informed.

Gaile Gray.6029:

This is an interesting idea. I’d love other feedback on this before taking questions to the dev team. (I’m sure they’ve thought of this, but there may be info to share on the subject.)

What do you guys think about auto-waypointing people (assuming after a certain period, of course) in the midst of specific types of combat encounters? And because I don’t think it’d work for every situation, can you specify which combat instances you believe would benefit from this functionality? Somehow I think dying to a rampaging bandit in Ashford wouldn’t count.

Crovax — I hope you don’t mind, but I changed “bad” to “downed” in the subject. It just seems better (and more relevant) that way. S’ok?

SKATE.1394:

Eh, I have a problem with fully dead players being waypointed automatically, even if it’s free of charge. There may be instances where actually ressing a fully dead player is more beneficial, even if it’s rare to want to do so, if the possibility exists at all, it should be an option.

A better solution is for a dead player to simply no longer count towards event scaling.

I agree with SKATE.

I would further add after a reasonable amount of time having been defeated at a major event without revival, in addition to that player not scaling the event, that this player shouldn’t qualify for rewards.

Until this window is reached, that player should still count for scaling and rewards.

The game at this point shouldn’t have to hold your hand on such a basic principle of play. This could be relaxed on pre-80 events/non-world events.

People playing high end content should have enough sense by now as when to waypoint and when to expect a revive from defeated state.

(Not downed… if you see someone downed as opposed to defeated/dead, always try to help them if you can)

Crovax.7854:

Just a little feedback for ANet and something they might have not considered when designing the Mordrem bosses. At least in the new bossfights, dead people are everywhere. Now I get it, sometimes you have lagg, sometimes you can’t react in time, whatever. But after the 4th or 5th time today of me being the only one alive at amber (out of ~20 people) I’ve had enough! What’s wrong with all those players?
Their useless body is needlessly scaling the boss up, they attract other players who might get tricked into thinking ressing the completely dead is a good idea instead of doing damage/popping bubbles, and let’s be honest, those bossfights are a damage race. They are actively dragging down the whole map by just lying there!

Why not just WP and run again? The rewards are given to everyone who participated, even those outside the area without the downsides of being a burden to everybody else, most of all the guy who has to solo the fricking boss because apparently 20 people can’t be bothered to move outside of the bright orange zone and just die within one or two minutes. By now most players have realized how to make gold/silver vulnerable but 90% of the time I (reluctantly, because of this very reason,)command indigo I see it fail because around three quarters of my little zerglings run straight into their AoE and get killed after around a minute or so. Now that’s fine but why for gods sake are you not WP’ing, thus making the fight harder for everybody else?!

I don’t mind bad players, but as it stands now they are an actual burden not only to myself but the whole map and from what I’ve seen the sole reason 5/5 rarely happens.
So please ANet, for future bossfights please auto-WP dead players to the nearest waypoint, maybe even free of charge. (Pretty please.)

PS: Sorry for making it sound a bit rant-y.

edit: Shamelessly changed topic name to attract more traffic.

A big part of the problem is only 1 waypoint, and by the time you waypoint and run back, the boss is dead.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Other set than berserker? No. For sure, I will not buy a new armor and retrait myself only for a single new zone. It would be too tedious to reskill/change armor every time I enter or leave the new zone. If it were necessary to do this, I simply would not enter that zone.

If it were possible to do this with a simple mouse click, for example with skill/build/armor templates, this would be a totally different thing and I would do this. In fact, I would like it having different play styles. But changing everything manually on zone change is a no-go. Weapons, armor, accessories, skill points, traits… no.

GW1 allowed us to switch builds on the fly and I do miss it. I use alts specifically built and designed for specific areas. Not all content is built alike. The Labrynth for example really needed me to adjust and learn a new build. Learning more about my class with different builds was a good thing in the long run. It’s also not too hard to swap out a few pieces of equipment, utility or swap a trait or two.

Based on my own experience:

NOBODY thought it was a bad idea to have only 1 waypoint in the silverwastes, causing you to have to run clear across the friggen map to get back to the fort you were at.

NOBODY thought it was a bad idea to have certain mordrem enemies immobilize you. I think they’re called Modrem Husk Slingers or something. There have been times I try to ignore enemies to run back across the map, aggro 2 or more of those kittens, and be permanently immobilized. As soon as the immob wears off, or I clear it with a skill, another mordrem immobs me, then when that wears off another immobs me. I end up having no choice but to waste time trying to kill them so I can continue on my way, and sometimes I end up getting killed myself and have to start my long trek across the map all over again!

This is probably why some players refuse to use a waypoint to revive themselves when they get killed at 1 of the forts on the far west side of the map.

It isn’t easy avoiding getting hit by enemies while running past them. Most of the time I’ll get hit at least once on my way back, putting me in combat mode for a good 2 minutes or so because the enemy refuses to break aggro, even though they aren’t chasing me anymore. There have been times throughout the game where I get stuck in combat mode for a good 3-5 minutes when I get hit while running past stuff. At times I’ll stop after a while and look around. Not a single enemy in sight or even in the distance, and I have the distance in the game options set to max so I can see as far as possible, and I’ll still be stuck in combat mode for some reason. This kittenes me off and is really starting to get on my nerves. I’m sick of being stuck in combat mode for minutes, slowing me down, when I’m just trying to get somewhere.

And then we have someone come on the forums and goes all Sixth Sense on us: “I SEE DEAD PEOPLE AND THEY WON’T REZ, kitten !” Perhaps instead of kittening about it on the forums you could ask people WHY they don’t want to revive themselves using a waypoint.

Here is an idea: how about you stop complaining and start reviving? It wouldn’t be a problem if more players would take the time to revive people. The more players reviving a single player, the faster they they come back to life.

Of course there is that 1 breach with the 2 champions where you have to destroy the bubbles to snare them. Half the time I drop down onto a pile of dead bodies and I’m instantly killed myself. At that point the only option is for everybody to just waypoint, unless there are a few players alive who can revive them (and often times there are).

I do try to take the time to revive players. But if they’re completely dead and nobody else is helping revive them and I’m taking too much damage, I have to stop and concentrate on keeping myself alive, at least long enough for the monsters to go after another target giving me time to continue reviving. Because I know how annoying it is in the silverwastes having to trek clear across the map to get back there.

Edit: The word ‘kitten ’ changed to ‘kitten’………this planet has officially gone crazy.

…………? Seriously? Censorship at it’s finest.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/derp

I’m not even going to quote anyone, because it’s simple: there is no scaling up of the champion fights because there are no adds. So whether it’s 1 or 15 people fighting those Mordrem Champions during the Breach, it does not matter…so whether those people WP out or not isn’t going to make a difference. That’s all you need to know, and once they’re dead, not downed, I don’t believe they count towards the active players, and this would only apply to the Legendary Mordrem, which have nothing to do with the Champions. So in essence, you don’t need auto-waypointing.