Guild Wars 2

Hellmasker.1649:

how much longer I “have to” slave away every day.

Just stop doing it? You don’t HAVE TO grind every daily AP every day.

I used to do every daily AP point, for the AP rewards, and not that I cared about the leader boards, but I was in the top 100.

Since I stopped grinding the daily AP (As of like 5 months ago), I’m well outside of the top 1000. Sitting on 13800~ when technically if I kept grinding it I would be on 16500+ or something.

Now if I play, I have more time to do the things I actually want to do (WvW), instead of chasing the AP reward carrot.

Some times I don’t even complete the daily anymore.

Just do the bare minimum and you’ll have more fun.

Chrispy.5641:

…On the 5 AP cap a day, there is a problem with that, because there isn’t anyone who is going to do something for nothing*, and the reason why alot of things get done in this game is bcause of the dailies that award something for doing it.

*If you did something for fun, then it wasn’t for nothing. If you did something that wasn’t fun and still got an AP, then it also wasn’t for nothing.

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(4) – I want to suggest that Anet doesn’t touch the way Daily Achievements work in the game at all. Instead, I suggest that a Leaderboard get made for all Achievement Points, and a Seperate Leaderboard gets made for Permanent Achievements, Daily Achievements, and Monthly Achievements. The game tracks all of those seperately, and The Online Leaderboards Needs to be Expanded anyways.

Hi Cripsy,

Good points there and I think Point 4 is a good fix.

With regards to the 5 AP limit though, while I agree with your main point (people don’t do something for nothing) , I do not agree that having a 5 AP limit would cause a problem. The main point you make is that you do something because it is fun or because there is a reward. If you limited the dailies to 5, you would do those things to get the reward. You would then get no reward for doing any other dailies (other than perhaps advancing your LS achievements). This does not mean you would stop playing the game, unless you only play to get rewards, but then there are other avenues to get those. No, you would continue to play the game and you would go and do the things you enjoyed the most or gave you the best rewards.

That said, and having thought a while longer on the subject, limiting dailies to 5 ‘achievements’ does mean that the time gating would be effected. Gaining AP from dailies and monthlies is not just for the leaderboards, it’s also to get achievement chests. People who only do the 5 dailies will gain the chests at a slower rate to those who do them all. But then I ask myself, why can we not gain these things while doing what we enjoy?

I have always had a problem with time gating. Not because it slows you down, but because 9 times out of 10 it has been implemented badly. You are often required to do things you do not find fun, or to repeat the same content over and over again, in order to get something shiny. And I think the reaon for that is because it’s the easy option. It’s much easier to stick a kill 10 rats mechanic in game than it is to create some fun event that takes time to do. And to be fair, I can understand why companies take that option. When you are creating a game for so many players, each with different likes and dislikes, it’s very hard to go the creative route. The problem is, understanding that doesn’t help make the easy option more palletable.

All that said though, and again, I completely agree with your point 4. The leaderboard should be either seperated from dailies and monthlies, or the daily and month points should not be included at all, and should only be used to get the achievement chests (and also as an overall indicator to how much you have played the game). But for the completionists out there, there should be a fixed achievement leaderboard. As we will continue to gain more fixed achievements, from LS content, the leaderboard can still grow and change. However, like you say, I think having 2 leaderboards would be better, one for fixed achievements and one for total points. As there will be players in both fields that want to be seen on a leaderboard.

Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. That’s what happens when I’m board and unable to get in game So my basic idea is: Make dailies fun (by giving players many more options) and make the daily AP’s only count towards chests (not the leaderboard) or have seperate leaderboards.

@Chrispy.5641: Noone got 10k daily AP, the max should be around 8200 currently. I got 7663 atm and I am top 30. Yes, I missed some because a day only has 24 hours. If people think 10k is too low we could set it to 15k or whatever, but there should be a cap so we have some kind of “finish line”.

Malediktus.9250:

@Chrispy.5641: Noone got 10k daily AP, the max should be around 8200 currently. I got 7663 atm and I am top 30. Yes, I missed some because a day only has 24 hours. If people think 10k is too low we could set it to 15k or whatever, but there should be a cap so we have some kind of “finish line”.

There’s not supposed to be a finish line. Dailies are meant to keep people logging in and playing. That’s why they’re dailies.

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

Subdue.5479:

There’s not supposed to be a finish line. Dailies are meant to keep people logging in and playing. That’s why they’re dailies.

No finish line means no goal to look for. Just a giant void without bottom. That is demoralizing. It’s a known fact from human psychology that setting yourself certain goals to achieve will motivate you. Looking ahead and realizing that it is impossible to reach certain treshold at which point you will be a “winner” just pushes you to abandon the effort. I quitted GW2 over one month ago after playing it pretty much every single day since release. From this very reason. Too much dailies and no permant cap on them (even a very large one would still be a cap which you can at least attempt to reach). I am pretty certain I will never come back if they keep current daily system working like it does now.

Although to be fair I also accept that this may be a flaw on my own character. Perhaps my mild OCD which prevents me from being happy with the game if my daily/monthly tab is not maxed out is the reason. All I know is that I cant enjoy GW2 (for a great game it still is) if I know that I didnt done some random daily which due to lack of cap can never be made up for. So yeah, if a minority of OCD players will quit over this but in return Arena gains something from broader playerbase, I for sure can accept that and wish them all the best. It’s just that I still fail to see what sort of benefit GW2/Arena gets from not putting the global cap on dailies effort. No answers were ever given so I decided to move on.

Recovering AP addict here. My gaming time in Tyria is so much more relaxed and enjoyable now that I quit worrying about Achievement points and farming Ori and Ancient wood on all my characters. It’s not a job for me anymore. I do Fractals with friends and some solo queue. I finish a daily here and there throughout the week.

I sat in Lornar’s Pass for 45 minutes waiting for the Marionette Event to spawn and thought to myself, “Man, there are SO many other things I could be doing in other games that are fun rather than sitting here waiting for this event to start.”

So you know what I did? I fired up Street Fighter IV and had some fights and it was awesome. Stop worrying about arbitrary achievements and play it like a game. There’s not a single person that cares about my AP. Why should I care about it either? It’s just arbitrary numbers.

So let me get this strait…. You want to place a cap on how much AP ANY player could earn so you as a AP farmer don’t have to feel compelled to do them? That is the most self centered reason I have ever heard.

There are a vast number of players that do not play every day like myself that would like to earn a little more AP for my chests in any given day to make up for days that I miss to unlock my chests.

Now you want to take that away from players like me limiting how much we can earn in a day, so you don’t have to feel compelled to do the grind to say on top of some obscure scoreboard? Leaving newer players without any means to catch up to older players because everyone would be earning the same AP every day.

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it to… you want to stay on top of that scoreboard without having to put any extra effort into it to hold that spot… You know you could always just stop doing them without taking them away from everyone else…. that is an option you know.

The game does not have to be tailored to sustain your narrow play-style. If you are not having fun keeping up with the leader board stop doing it, nobody cares that you are able to log in every day and earn all the APs.

Horrible idea, this does nothing to improve the game for anyone, it just takes away reward. If they are to tedious for you to do every day the solution is to simply stop doing them and be without those AP points without taking them away from everyone else.

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Mireles Lore.5942:

So let me get this strait…. You want to place a cap on how much AP ANY player could earn so you as a AP farming don’t have to feel compelled to do them? That is the most self centered reason I have ever heard.

There are a vast number of players that do not play every day like myself and would like to earn a little more AP for my chests in any given day to make up for days that I miss to unlock my chests.

Now you want to take that away from players like me limiting how much we can earn in a day, so you don’t have to feel compelled to do the grind to say on top of some obscure scoreboard? Leaving newer players without any means to catch up to older players because everyone would be earning the same AP every day.

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it to… you want to stay on top of that scoreboard without having to put any extra effort into it to hold that spot… You know you could always just stop doing them without taking them away from everyone else…. that is an option you know.

The game does not have to be tailored to sustain your narrow play-style. If you are not having fun keeping up with the leader board stop doing it, nobody cares that you are able to log in every day and earn all the APs.

Horrible idea, this does nothing to improve the game for anyone, it just takes away reward. If they are to tedious for you to do every day the solution is to simply stop doing them and be without those AP points without taking them away from everyone else.

It would be nice if before producing your angry text you would just please stop for one moment and think about it one more time. How does a hard cap take away anything from you in your situation?

Lets review an example. A cap does not mean amount of dailies available each day would go down. No, it would stay the same. Hell, they could even add more. A high cap of for example 20,000 AP from dailies would just mean that you will not get any more AP from dailies once you reach 20,000 AP from dailies only. With current AP daily rate it would take around 1333 days of full dailies to reach the cap. More than 3.5 years. If you are in a situation that you only do 10 AP from dailies on average, it would take you 5.5 years to reach the cap. If you only do dailies to get the laurel, but you do that every single day, it would take you 10 years to reach the cap. So please tell me, how does in your situation putting the cap on take away anything from you. Unless you are worried that you will stop gaining AP from dailies in year 2020. Are you?

PS. If you do not play every day I estimate you would reach the cap some time around year 2025. I wonder if you will still be playing GW2 in 2025. I wish the game all the best so I hope you will

Awe.1096:

Mireles Lore.5942:

So let me get this strait…. You want to place a cap on how much AP ANY player could earn so you as a AP farming don’t have to feel compelled to do them? That is the most self centered reason I have ever heard.

There are a vast number of players that do not play every day like myself and would like to earn a little more AP for my chests in any given day to make up for days that I miss to unlock my chests.

Now you want to take that away from players like me limiting how much we can earn in a day, so you don’t have to feel compelled to do the grind to say on top of some obscure scoreboard? Leaving newer players without any means to catch up to older players because everyone would be earning the same AP every day.

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it to… you want to stay on top of that scoreboard without having to put any extra effort into it to hold that spot… You know you could always just stop doing them without taking them away from everyone else…. that is an option you know.

The game does not have to be tailored to sustain your narrow play-style. If you are not having fun keeping up with the leader board stop doing it, nobody cares that you are able to log in every day and earn all the APs.

Horrible idea, this does nothing to improve the game for anyone, it just takes away reward. If they are to tedious for you to do every day the solution is to simply stop doing them and be without those AP points without taking them away from everyone else.

It would be nice if before producing your angry text you would just please stop for one moment and think about it one more time. How does a hard cap take away anything from you in your situation?

Lets review an example. A cap does not mean amount of dailies available each day would go down. No, it would stay the same. Hell, they could even add more. A high cap of for example 20,000 AP from dailies would just mean that you will not get any more AP from dailies once you reach 20,000 AP from dailies only. With current AP daily rate it would take around 1333 days of full dailies to reach the cap. More than 3.5 years. If you are in a situation that you only do 10 AP from dailies on average, it would take you 5.5 years to reach the cap. If you only do dailies to get the laurel, but you do that every single day, it would take you 10 years to reach the cap. So please tell me, how does in your situation putting the cap on take away anything from you. Unless you are worried that you will stop gaining AP from dailies in year 2020. Are you?

Why even add a hard cap in the first place if its so insignificant and doesn’t effect anyone?

And yes I played the guild wars 1 for 8 years casually. So yes i would hit that cap, stopping me for earning additional rewards because some player that didn’t want people to earn extra AP in excess of what he wanted/could. I don’t find that a good enough reason to add a cap no matter how significant you perceive it to be.

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Why even add a hard cap in the first place if its so insignificant and doesn’t effect anyone?

And yes I played the guild wars 1 for 8 years casually. So yes i would hit that cap, stopping me for earning additional rewards because some player that didn’t want people to earn extra AP in excess of what he wanted/could. I don’t find that a good enough reason to add a cap.

Becouse it adds a goal. A finish line. Killing 1,000,000 dolyaks in WvW might sound insane but it is a goal. Some people like aiming at goals. Goal serves as a motivator. The reason to make the cap high is exactly to not negatively affect people who just like to obtain some daily rewards. Getting 10 years worth of dailies would be a humongous effort and hardly anyone would reach it. How many players maxed their PvP rank in GW1? If you are a GW1 veteran, you should know that very very few becouse it required insane grind. But there was a finish line on that race. With current daily design in GW2 there is no finish line. No goal to aim at and steer toward. If you are a completionist player you can either go all-in (which means debilitating grind where you cant even leave on vacations without Internet access) or throw the towel and go play something else. If you dont give a kitten about AP, the system is fine indeed. But so it would be fine if a very high cap would exist which 99% of players will never reach anyway. But the existence of this cap alone would fix the entire thing for completionist players target-locked at that AP grind.

Awe.1096:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Why even add a hard cap in the first place if its so insignificant and doesn’t effect anyone?

And yes I played the guild wars 1 for 8 years casually. So yes i would hit that cap, stopping me for earning additional rewards because some player that didn’t want people to earn extra AP in excess of what he wanted/could. I don’t find that a good enough reason to add a cap.

Becouse it adds a goal. A finish line. Killing 1,000,000 dolyaks in WvW might sound insane but it is a goal. Some people like aiming at goals. Goal serves as a motivator. The reason to make the cap high is exactly to not negatively affect people who just like to obtain some daily rewards. Getting 10 years worth of dailies would a humongous effort and hardly anyone would reach it. How many players maxed their PvP rank in GW1? If you are a GW1 veteran, you should know that very very few becouse it required insane grind. But there was a finish line on that race. With current daily design in GW2 there is no finish line. No goal to aim at and steer toward. If you are a completionist player you can either go all-in (which means debilitating grind where you cant even leave on vacationwithout Internet access) or throwing the towel and go play something else. If you dont give a kitten about AP the system is fine. But so it would be fine if a very high cap would exist which 99% of players will never reach anyway. But the existence of this cap alone would fix the entire thing for completionist players fixed at that AP grind.

Like I said, one type of player wanting something isn’t a good enough reason to take away from everyone else. These is nothing stopping you from setting your own goals and stopping. There is no game update required for you to set goals for yourself.

The “entire thing for completionist players” is just that, a mentality that exists in players. If unlimited rewards upsets these players it is the players fault not the game fault. The game does not need to be tailored to satisfy the competition mentality in a way that prevents players to earn rewards in excess of your own goals no matter how high they might be. That is just selfish reasoning.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Like I said, one type of player wanting something isn’t a good enough reason to take away from everyone else. These is nothing stopping you from setting your own goals and stopping. There is no game update required for you to set goals for yourself.

The “entire thing for completionist players” is just that, a mentality that exists in players. If unlimited rewards upsets these players it is the players fault not the game fault. The game does not need to be tailored to satisfy the competition mentality in a way that prevents players to earn rewards in excess of your own goals no matter how high they might be. That is just selfish reasoning.

And like I said. Your “take away from everyone else” would concern who exactly? A few players who who wake up in year 2020 and complain that they dont get AP from dailies anymore? Im going to take on the same standard on both edges here. You say that taking away things from casual players and giving something to hardcore grinders would be bad becouse there are 500,000 casuals and 500 hardcore grinders (numbers made up by me). Needs of 500,000 overshadows needs of 500. Agreed. The problem is, adding a very high cap on dailies would never concern all those casuals becouse they would stop playing GW2 long before they would even reach the cap. Now to the other edge. You say that there might be few semi-casuals who will start to be upset in 2018-2022 that they stopped getting AP from GW2 dailies. I will take a bold assumption that the amount of completionist players upset with current daily scheme (as evidenced by several threads made about it in 2013) is greater than those few who would make their way to actually ever reach that cap and then be unhappy about no further daily AP progression. So where does this democratic system (which btw. keeps telling to get the kitten out if I dont like it) take us in this situation?

Awe.1096:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Like I said, one type of player wanting something isn’t a good enough reason to take away from everyone else. These is nothing stopping you from setting your own goals and stopping. There is no game update required for you to set goals for yourself.

The “entire thing for completionist players” is just that, a mentality that exists in players. If unlimited rewards upsets these players it is the players fault not the game fault. The game does not need to be tailored to satisfy the competition mentality in a way that prevents players to earn rewards in excess of your own goals no matter how high they might be. That is just selfish reasoning.

And like I said. Your “take away from everyone else” would concern who exactly? A few players who who wake up in year 2020 and complain that they dont get AP from dailies anymore? Im going to take on the same standard on both edges here. You say that taking away things from casual players and giving something to hardcore grinders would be bad becouse there are 500,000 casuals and 500 hardcore grinders (numbers made up by me). Needs of 500,000 overshadows needs of 500. Agreed. The problem is, adding a very high cap on dailies would never concern all those casuals becouse they would stop playing GW2 long before they would even reach the cap. Now to the other edge. You say that there might be few semi-casuals who will start to be upset in 2018-2022 that they stopped getting AP from GW2 dailies. I will take a bold assumption that the amount of completionist players upset with current daily scheme (as evidenced by several threads made about it in 2013) is greater than those few who would make their way to actually ever reach that cap and then be unhappy about no further daily AP progression. So where does this democratic system (which btw. keeps telling to get the kitten out if I dont like it) take us in this situation?

Just because you don’t find the number of people it will effect significant doesn’t make it a good idea in the interest of improving the game for everyone. You are still holding one group of players with more importance than the other and I don’t feel that is what this game is about.

If it even takes away from a single person just so completionist don’t have to feel compelled to continue doing things, I find it a bad idea. You are basically telling that player, “hey since this group of people didn’t want other people to be able to earn rewards indefinitely, you stop here, you can no longer earn rewards on a daily basis.” Its that, what makes a hard cap for the sake of completionists a totally selfish idea.

Your goal for this cap is to limit rewards and goals strictly to satisfy one player types mentality, and that is never okay no matter how obscure the limit is because someone will reach it. This does nothing to improve the game for anyone as you could have the same experience without a cap if not its the players mentality that prevents them from doing so not the game.

You use Dolyaks as an example to further your argument. Great! Let’s set the cap at 1,000,000 points. Now you are happy with your goal, and no one needs worry about reaching the cap in the foreseeable future. Let’s also add more achievements to the list of Dailies and Monthlies just to make it a tiny bit more attainable. Win/Win for everyone. =)

Mireles Lore.5942:

Just because you don’t find the number of people it will effect significant doesn’t make it a good idea in the interest of improving the game for everyone. You are still holding one group of players with more importance than the other and I don’t feel that is what this game is about.

If it even takes away from a single person just so completionist don’t have to feel compelled to continue doing things, I find it a bad idea. You are basically telling that player, “hey since this group of people didn’t want other people to be able to earn rewards indefinitely, you stop here, you can no longer earn rewards on a daily basis.” Its that, what makes a hard cap for the sake of completionists a totally selfish idea.

Your goal for this cap is to limit rewards and goals strictly to satisfy one player types mentality, and that is never okay no matter how obscure the limit is because someone will reach it. This does nothing to improve the game for anyone as you could have the same experience without a cap if not its the players mentality that prevents them from doing so not the game.

What I find very disturbing in your posts is that you associate your own point of view with the “everyone else” group. In other words, “I dont not agree with you and so does everyone else”. Where I, for a change, already stated in my very first post to which I assume you replied, that I recognize that I represent a certain group of players and if the needs of this group collide with the majority, I can openly give up my rights to enjoy the game. Now you come in, setup a position of someone who would be concerned about the possible situation where one would stop getting daily AP after reaching a certain very high cap and then proceed to falsely claim that “everyone else” are on the same boat as you (and tbh I think that the majority of people dont even care about AP that much so they are neither in your group or mine). Just becouse a proposed change wants to disturb the specific status quo, does not mean that “everyone else” agree with that status quo (or more importantly, even care about it). Feel free to discuss merits of AP daily cap but please dont claim that it aims at disturbing the game experience of “everyone else”.

Awe.1096:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Just because you don’t find the number of people it will effect significant doesn’t make it a good idea in the interest of improving the game for everyone. You are still holding one group of players with more importance than the other and I don’t feel that is what this game is about.

If it even takes away from a single person just so completionist don’t have to feel compelled to continue doing things, I find it a bad idea. You are basically telling that player, “hey since this group of people didn’t want other people to be able to earn rewards indefinitely, you stop here, you can no longer earn rewards on a daily basis.” Its that, what makes a hard cap for the sake of completionists a totally selfish idea.

Your goal for this cap is to limit rewards and goals strictly to satisfy one player types mentality, and that is never okay no matter how obscure the limit is because someone will reach it. This does nothing to improve the game for anyone as you could have the same experience without a cap if not its the players mentality that prevents them from doing so not the game.

What I find very disturbing in your posts is that you associate your own point of view with the “everyone else” group. In other words, “I dont not agree with you and so does everyone else”. Where I, for a change, already stated in my very first post to which I assume you replied, that I recognize that I represent a certain group of players and if the needs of this group collide with the majority, I can openly give up my rights to enjoy the game. Now you come in, setup a position of someone who would be concerned about the possible situation where one would stop getting daily AP after reaching a certain very high cap and then proceed to falsely claim that “everyone else” are on the same boat as you (and tbh I think that the majority of people dont even care about AP that much so they are neither in your group or mine). Just becouse a proposed change wants to disturb the specific status quo, does not mean that “everyone else” agree with that status quo (or more importantly, even care about it). Feel free to discuss merits of AP daily cap but please dont claim that it aims at disturbing the game experience of “everyone else”.

I never said everyone agrees with me. I just said your idea does nothing to improve the game for anyone…. it just puts limits on EVERYONE so ONE type of player can be satisfied in their mentality. It is never okay to limit others even if they wont notice that limit strictly to make a player mentality less taxing to maintain.

@Mireles, beating a dead horse no matter how much, ain’t gonna make it get and start running, Selfish people are oblivious to their line of thinking, they genuinely believe their desires and that which satisfies them are for the greater good. Just let it go.

If there was a cap, then it shouldn’t be called a “leader” board.

Mireles Lore.5942:

I never said everyone agrees with me. I just said your idea does nothing to improve the game for anyone…. it just puts limits on everyone so one type of player can be satisfied in their mentality. It is never okay to limit others even if they wont notice that limit strictly to make a play-style less taxing to maintain.

You just did it again. First of all. Putting a cap would improve the game for me. That is one. One is greater from noone. But I would bet all my virtues that there are more than just me. In fact there are some even in this thread. You say at “limit” as if it is something innately bad. For me limit is not a constraint. Its an improvement. Its like adding the finish line (with champaign and cookies) to a marathon race. For me that limit is a feature I would love to see.

william dj.6953:

@Mireles, beating a dead horse no matter how much, ain’t gonna make it get and start running, Selfish people are oblivious to their line of thinking, they genuinely believe their desires and that which satisfies them are for the greater good. Just let it go.

Sure. But here is a tricky part. So let’s say I am selfish becouse I promote some way in which the game should work. Now you promote a way you think the game should work. What does that make of you? In the end, anyone who has an opinion about something could be called selfish. You like Democrats? You are selfish! You like Republicans? You are selfish!

I like the game the way it is. But sry, I already put my stick away when I realized the horse was dead. I know its pointless.
I know according to some, my opinion is worthless and I shouldn’t even have the right to post on this thread, as if my money for the game didn’t have the same value as others.

Reading this thread reminded me in some ways of the novel Animal Farm. Some peoples opinions and suggestions are just vastly more important than others.

Rash.6514:

I’ve never seen a developer in game. How are they identified?

The Anet logo next to their name. I chased one down once in WVW and ganked them furiously taking screenshots the whole time

It’s like a meta game.

The achievement system extended how long I played the game quite a bit. Everyday they pulled me away from the wisdom there’s other (better) stuff to do. But then they kept increasing the difficulty (stupid dailies like complete 3x hard living story puzzle to get daily – for instance), and kept increasing the amount (wvw ones added, then some others, like daily activity).

But once burned out, you are so burned out, you can’t see anything positive in the game anymore. That state has come down a bit, but i still see no point to play the game again, even though there’s loads of fun stuff to do, and the core of the game is still good. Basically the crazy achievement pressure (and wrong future decision by anet, combo of both), keep me from returning to the game. I’m all for dailies, but to much is to much. We are people. We work, we have real life stuff to do (most of us). For some time i had no job, and played almost gw2 exlusively. EVEN THEN, it rarely was enough time, to complete every single thing that’s ‘daily’. (not just achievements, but daily dungeon tokens (can’t stack them twice same day, etc etc, pvp achievements also, attending the wvw guild raid, etc). With that in mind, and a job now, it would mean that if i fully focus might do ‘almost all of achievements a day’, but have no true fun, because i can’t choose the content i want to. Or i can choose the content I want too, and I might complete 2-7 achievements a day, depending on how easy they are (50 kills, 5 veterans, 5 events, etc are ultra easy, super specific ones are harder). And then you miss the laurels (sometimes), achievements, etc. The result is always negative, you loose something, you don’t want to loose. This may sound stupid and over dramatic, but a lot of players feel it. If you didn’t push achievements this crazy, this feeling may have never occured. But the completionist in me (and realist, knowing i just want to have fun), made me complete all achievements every day and still try to have fun at same time. When that got worse and worse, I burned out. Especially the latest living stories are more anoying then fun. (wintersday, boring mostly, but must do if you are completionist). Just time draining boredom.

The only solution for people like me (if Anet cares, judging from a lot of player opinions, the players don’t care at all), is to merge a lot of achievements together. If there’s ‘do event in area X’, ‘do kill in area X’, either make them only 1 achievement, or do it so that IF it’s on, on a day, it must be the same area, and not ‘kryta and maguuma jungle’. Secondly reduce the amount. Thirdly remove anoying ones like personal story. Why is this one anoying? Well it’s ok for some time. But after a while it’s either complete your 7th lvl 80 char story, at a time you don’t intend too (freedom killed), or make a new char, speedclear a story, and still loose 25 mins, and have inconvenience). While the ‘1 daily a day for living story, for meta’-system is very good (especially for casual players wanting to complete living story meta), some (not all of them) of the daily living story achievements are WAAAAAY to time consuming (and chance based, like wintersday puzzle, if you are unlucky, the winds push you off each time, when you don’t expect too, some days (when i had more time, i complete it in 1 go, then when i barely have time i complete it after 20 trials (and i didn’t play worse))). This must stop. We play for fun, not for ‘mandatory’, ‘must-do’ ‘pressure to player to do content’. We play for fun and achievements give a nice sense of continuity, and some sort of legacy, but they don’t work if to much enforced. They should be a bonus, nothing more. Overhaul them, cause you might lose more players then you anticipate in my opinion.

Take a look at gw1 for comparison if you don’t have a clue devs. While zaishen missions have very good bonuses, everything they give could be farmed in another way at another time, without pressure, and they didn’t straigt boost achievements, they just sometimes helped to progress title bars a bit faster. But if you lost that, you could do it later again. This isn’t the case with current system. You ALWAYS LOOSE every daily you don’t do, forever. I can live if that’s limited to 5 (like in start of gw2) or slightly more, but not the current 20 (especially considering how time consuming some are like fracs, dungeons, personal story, more anoying living story ones, ‘do tequatl event’-daily (quite fun soloing a superdragon, NOT, even less fun to wait 3 hour for him to spawn, without a chance to leave area).

william dj.6953:

I like the game the way it is. But sry, I already put my stick away when I realized the horse was dead. I know its pointless.
I know according to some, my opinion is worthless and I shouldn’t even have the right to post on this thread, as if my money for the game didn’t have the same value as others.

How so? Who said that your opinion is worthless? The only people who I remember voiced something remotely close to “shouldn’t even have the right to post on this thread” were those who asked to report and close threads about daily cap back in December. And as the matter of fact, your money right now have more value from mine. Becouse I stopped playing GW2 and buying gems and you still play it (and perhaps still buying gems). So you are now rightfully more valuable customer for Arena. But now a question. Would you honestly quit playing GW2, if the cap on dailies would be introduced? You dont have to post the reply here becouse it could potentially reinforce my argument and you would not like that I guess. Just answer that to youself. If your answer is “Yes, I would stop playing and supporting GW2 if they would introduce the high global cap on dailies.” and it is honest, then I guess we would have a problem. But in such case, only Arena gets access to metrics allowing to decide what to make up from this uncompromisable sitaution.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

I love how you quoted my post and then responded as if you hadn’t read it. I’ll respond to each point in yours, with a simple explanation derived from the the text you quoted, just to prove this point.

Malediktus

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play.

Subdue

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing.

Subdue

as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

Malediktus

Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

Subdue

Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete

And there you have it. Everything in your response to my post, already addressed in my post, which you were supposed to have been responding to. Post-ception.

Awe.1096:

Mireles Lore.5942:

I never said everyone agrees with me. I just said your idea does nothing to improve the game for anyone…. it just puts limits on everyone so one type of player can be satisfied in their mentality. It is never okay to limit others even if they wont notice that limit strictly to make a play-style less taxing to maintain.

You just did it again. First of all. Putting a cap would improve the game for me. That is one. One is greater from noone. But I would bet all my virtues that there are more than just me. In fact there are some even in this thread. You say at “limit” as if it is something innately bad. For me limit is not a constraint. Its an improvement. Its like adding the finish line (with champaign and cookies) to a marathon race. For me that limit is a feature I would love to see.

Actually, putting a cap doesn’t improve the game for you, at least, not in any way that putting your own personal cap to it doesn’t also accomplish. What putting a cap DOES do, however, is reduce competition in an already very uncompetitive field, which is why the leaderboard itself needs a massive makeover.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

I love how you quoted my post and then responded as if you hadn’t read it. I’ll respond to each point in yours, with a simple explanation derived from the the text you quoted, just to prove this point.

Malediktus

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play.

Subdue

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing.

Subdue

as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

Malediktus

Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

Subdue

Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete

And there you have it. Everything in your response to my post, already addressed in my post, which you were supposed to have been responding to. Post-ception.

Reasonably complete stops at 4 hours per day for me. Everything more is unreasonable, even if you want to compete in leaderboards. What about the people who can play 10h+ a day? You want to add as many temp achieves so not even them can do everything? Even if you add more than you can complete in 24 hours I dont see the sense of this.
The current system is terrible enough and yours would be even worse.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

So you’re saying it rewards dedication to the task. I’m not seeing a problem. I’m really not sure why you think you deserve more just because you play a lot or longer than others.

fellyn.5083:

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

So you’re saying it rewards dedication to the task. I’m not seeing a problem. I’m really not sure why you think you deserve more just because you play a lot or longer than others.

You contradict yourself. First you say it rewards dedication to the task and in next sentence you say people dont deserve more for playing longer.
But its like that already 5 dailies in 15minutes or 20 AP in 4-6 hours. So playing more per day gives more AP.

Malediktus.9250:

fellyn.5083:

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

So you’re saying it rewards dedication to the task. I’m not seeing a problem. I’m really not sure why you think you deserve more just because you play a lot or longer than others.

You contradict yourself. First you say it rewards dedication to the task and in next sentence you say people dont deserve more for playing longer.
But its like that already 5 dailies in 15minutes or 20 AP in 4-6 hours. So playing more per day gives more AP.

No contradiction. Being dedicated to a task and asking to be set apart from others because you’ve played longer are completely different things and it’s telling that you think it’s only black or white.

You’re basically saying that you deserve an advantage over a person who started 1 week ago because you were playing a year ago and you want to take away the chance for the person who started a week ago from ever catching up to you.

That’s pretty much the definition of what it means to be selfish and entitled.

At the end of the day if you feel like it’s to much work to do all the daily achievements just don’t do them. You’re inventing a problem that doesn’t exist so you can keep your spot on the leader boards without putting in that much effort all the while cutting off the chances from other ap seekers from ever getting to the top.

I think you should reread the thread, because you obviously did not understand the suggestions. As it is now we have the immense advantage as long as we keep playing. Adding a hardcap on temporary AP points would allow people who started later to catch up as time goes on.
Next time read more closely before posting.

I am annoyed by having to reexplain everything every few posts because people either dont bother reading the whole thread or want to get this thread closed with strawman arguments.

Malediktus.9250:

I think you should reread the thread, because you obviously did not understand the suggestions. As it is now we have the immense advantage as long as we keep playing. Adding a hardcap on temporary AP points would allow people who started later to catch up as time goes on.
Next time read more closely before posting.

I am annoyed by having to reexplain everything every few posts because people either dont bother reading the whole thread or want to get this thread closed with strawman arguments.

No I’m pretty sure that would just cement the top spots for people who have been playing longer.

Maybe the reason you need to keep explaining your suggestion is because it doesn’t make any sense.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No longer in signature. Well, that’s interesting.

If there wouldn’t be less choice, then there would be the same amount (if not more) Achievement points and their related tasks offered each day. Great! We are on the same page. =)

Choice is always a good thing!

I didn’t want it sending the wrong message, and obviously it was.

Subdue.5479:

Malediktus.9250:

So the laurels, exp and chance for black lion items like the salvage kit is not good enough for doing some dailies?

If they were, you wouldn’t be doing more than 5 a day, would you?

If a hard cap were introduced I would absolutely be able to slow down, as any points I miss or would miss could be “made up” in a sense. Surely even new players would appreciate that, right? I probably would just do 5 on some days, and after I hit the cap, I would do 5 for the item rewards.

There’s nothing stopping you from doing that even without a hard cap, except, you know, people might start catching up to you on the leaderboard, which is what you’re trying to avoid.

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing. What’s the point of a leaderboard where incumbency is by far the biggest predictor of placement?

If anything, the leaderboard should be reset at set time intervals, should include only temporary achievements (living story, daily, monthly). Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete, with a good number of fast, easy achievements (kill 30 ambients), as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

And of course, with a more dynamic leaderboard, there’s greater room for rewards for placing in the top 100, 1000, etc on the leaderboard. In its current incarnation, such a reward system would be impossible, as it would just be a giant screw-you to everyone who wasn’t here from the start.

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

I love how you quoted my post and then responded as if you hadn’t read it. I’ll respond to each point in yours, with a simple explanation derived from the the text you quoted, just to prove this point.

Malediktus

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play.

Subdue

Really though, the leaderboard in it’s current incarnation is worthless, a metric not of any player’s proficiency in the game, but rather, of how long they’ve been playing.

Subdue

as well as a number of long, difficult achievements (Complete a level 40+ Fractal run), all of course weighted by the difficulty of attaining the daily achievement (30 ambients = 1AP, 40+ Fractal Run = 10).

Malediktus

Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

Subdue

Daily and Monthly achievements should have more options than any player can reasonably complete

And there you have it. Everything in your response to my post, already addressed in my post, which you were supposed to have been responding to. Post-ception.

Reasonably complete stops at 4 hours per day for me. Everything more is unreasonable, even if you want to compete in leaderboards. What about the people who can play 10h+ a day? You want to add as many temp achieves so not even them can do everything? Even if you add more than you can complete in 24 hours I dont see the sense of this.
The current system is terrible enough and yours would be even worse.

Please list for me the competitions you can think of where in the players who spend more time training, more time competing, don’t garner some sort of advantage.

fellyn.5083:

Malediktus.9250:

I think you should reread the thread, because you obviously did not understand the suggestions. As it is now we have the immense advantage as long as we keep playing. Adding a hardcap on temporary AP points would allow people who started later to catch up as time goes on.
Next time read more closely before posting.

I am annoyed by having to reexplain everything every few posts because people either dont bother reading the whole thread or want to get this thread closed with strawman arguments.

No I’m pretty sure that would just cement the top spots for people who have been playing longer.

Maybe the reason you need to keep explaining your suggestion is because it doesn’t make any sense.

Please kindly explain how adding a hard cap on daily AP would “cement the top spots for people who have been playing longer”. Before you start accusing him of not making any sense, at least please try to be coherent and dont claim that black is white and white is black.

An example. Hardcore achievement grinder John plays since launch day of GW2. He does every single daily since then. Hardcore achievement grinder Tom joins 4 months after the game’s release and also starts to do all dailies every day. Casual Peter joins the game half year after the release. He does dailies to get laurels and even that only the every other day becouse he likes to play less. Time goes on. All three guys gather some points from dailies and all three of them complete most of permanent achievements in game apart from some very grindy ones like PvP rank track or WvW dolyak killer. Even Peter as he likes to do achievements at his own pace.

Scenario A: Time goes on. Its been now 4 years since the GW2 release. John, Tom and Peter all still play GW2. They like the game. There is no global limit on daily cap and ArenaNet never thought about implementing it. John and Tom still do all available dailies and all LS/new parmenent achievements. John has now 50,000 AP and Tom has now 46,000 AP. Despite Tom’s efforts, he is unable to reach John becouse John still has an advantage of starting the game 4 months ahead. Peter managed to do most of permanent achievements till now but he seldom does the dailies. He now sits at 30,000 AP.

Scenario B: Time goes on. Its been now 4 years since the GW2 release. John, Tom and Peter all still play GW2. They like the game. At some point ArenaNet decided to put a hard cap on daily AP and it sits at 25,000 AP. John and Tom are both capped. John sits at 40,630 and Tom sits at 40,800 AP. Tom managed to get close to John few months after John reached his daily AP cap. At some point he managed to get a bit ahead of him becouse over the years he did a bit more WvW and gathered some additional achievements there. Regardless from this, they both are hardcore GW2 players and their AP amounts are both in Top50 on leaderboards. Meanwhile Peter still didnt reached his AP daily cap. He still does some dailies at a slow pace but every time he gains some AP from dailies, he gets a bit closer to John and Tom as they cant get any more points from dailies anymore. Peter now sits at 30,000 AP. Exactly same as in scenario A.

TLDR summary:

In scenario A without daily cap, here is how the situation looks after 4 years:
John 50,000 AP; Tom 46,000 AP; Peter 30,000 AP

In scenario B with daily cap, here is how the situation looks after 4 years:
John 40,630 AP; Tom 40,800 AP; Peter 30,000 AP

Awe, you asked me a question and I answered. Now allow me to ask you one. Or anyone that wants these changes can answer the question.

Would the proposed changes allow those at the top of the leaderboard maintain their position much easier?

If the answer is Yes, this, in my opinion is why so many people are against it. This said group of people come on forums make suggestions claiming its for the benefit of all in the game. When this is 100% a big fat lie. It is to benefit them the most and they know it. When others call them out on their lying they start pitching a fit.

No matter how many numbers are thrown out there, no matter how many times the suggestions are reworded its still the same thing. A lie that centers on the selfishness of this group.

And btw, the question really only requires a yes or no answer. Not the typical avoidance of answering a question that so many do when trying to convince those on the board of their position. By throwing up walls of txt.

william dj.6953:

Awe, you asked me a question and I answered. Now allow me to ask you one. Or anyone that wants these changes can answer the question.

Would the proposed changes allow those at the top of the leaderboard maintain their position much easier?

If the answer is Yes, this, in my opinion is why so many people are against it. This said group of people come on forums make suggestions claiming its for the benefit of all in the game. When this is 100% a big fat lie. It is to benefit them the most and they know it. When others call them out on their lying they start pitching a fit.

No matter how many numbers are thrown out there, no matter how many times the suggestions are reworded its still the same thing. A lie that centers on the selfishness of this group.

And btw, the question really only requires a yes or no answer. Not the typical avoidance of answering a question that so many do when trying to convince those on the board of their position. By throwing up walls of txt.

No

@Awe.1096

Everything you’ve said just points to a glaring flaw in the current system that is not solved by the cap you propose: There is no progression, no competition. It is impossible to move up unless people at the top quit. That’s why the system I propose here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-AP-Leaderboard-Sucks-Let-s-Fix-It is much more effective as an achievement leader board.

The system works really well the way it is. More often than not I’m getting the daily done simply through normal game play and the little chest on the side catches me by surprise. Why is this possible? Because we have so many options available to us. Yesterday I don’t even recall when I popped the daily, but when I did I looked to see what I completed and noticed a couple easy points were also sitting there, I wound up with I think all but two done and was quite satisfied, especially now that I’m really sneaking up on that 10K award chest.

The real problem here has nothing to do with the format for the daily/monthly points. The problem here is people are trying to change the system in order to give themselves better position on the leader board. People that are grinding APs available outside of the dailies are trying to inhibit people that use dailies as a majority of their point gains in order to give themselves an advantage.

This has nothing to do with being a completionist. This has to do with jostling for position on the leader board by taking away one groups path to more APs than another groups. It was already admitted with the one guy that said he didn’t think people that used dailies for most of their points “deserve” their spots on the leader board. That’s all this is, nothing more.

@Yamiga, so you really want people to believe the proposed changes will make it more difficult for those at the top of the leaderboard to maintain their position?

And some wonder why those who are boohooing for these changes are laughed at.

Those at the top are complaining about the amount of work it takes a day to get all the ap. (amount of work it takes to stay at top of leaderboard) So by saying no, you are saying they want it to be harder for them to stay there. What a joke.

william dj.6953:

Awe, you asked me a question and I answered. Now allow me to ask you one. Or anyone that wants these changes can answer the question.

Would the proposed changes allow those at the top of the leaderboard maintain their position much easier?

If the answer is Yes, this, in my opinion is why so many people are against it. This said group of people come on forums make suggestions claiming its for the benefit of all in the game. When this is 100% a big fat lie. It is to benefit them the most and they know it. When others call them out on their lying they start pitching a fit.

No matter how many numbers are thrown out there, no matter how many times the suggestions are reworded its still the same thing. A lie that centers on the selfishness of this group.

And btw, the question really only requires a yes or no answer. Not the typical avoidance of answering a question that so many do when trying to convince those on the board of their position. By throwing up walls of txt.

The answer is No. I think you still dont see one thing. You keep forgetting that once someone with 20,000 AP reaches the cap, he (and only he as opposed to those who are behind him and still didnt reached the cap) stops gaining more AP from dailies. So lets say I reached the cap and I have now 6,000 AP lead over someone who is trying to catch me. But he still didnt reached the cap. So from now on I can’t get any more AP from dailies and the person chasing me can get 15 AP per day. What can I do at this point to maintain my lead? It is only inevitable that my lead will start to shrink. At some point the person chasing me will also reach the cap. Perhaps I will still be in the lead but not with 6,000 AP anymore. Now it will be 500 AP. At this point its a fair game. Who will ultimately lead will be determined by who spends more hours playing GW2 and playing more efficiently. Not by who abandoned his/her life to make sure that there never will be a day without all achievements done. Introducing the cap will have an opposing effect to what you say. It will be harder to maintain the lead becouse leading just means that you will loose a stream of daily AP faster from people who are behind you.

william dj.6953:

@Yamiga, so you really want people to believe the proposed changes will make it more difficult for those at the top of the leaderboard to maintain their position?

And some wonder why those who are boohooing for these changes are laughed at.

Those at the top are complaining about the amount of work it takes a day to get all the ap. (amount of work it takes to stay at top of leaderboard) So by saying no, you are saying they want it to be harder for them to stay there. What a joke.

One of the proposed changes involving capping the daily APs involved removing Aps people already have above the cap. This clearly favors people at the top of the leader boards that got the majority of them through non-daily means and punishes those that rely predominantly on dailies for their APs. Yet I’ve yet to see a single good reason why some people should be punished for one play style and rewarded for another. As a matter of fact, all I’ve seen that actually speaks the truth (regarding how some people feel) is someone saying “they don’t deserve it”.

william dj.6953:

Those at the top are complaining about the amount of work it takes a day to get all the ap. (amount of work it takes to stay at top of leaderboard) So by saying no, you are saying they want it to be harder for them to stay there. What a joke.

Its not a joke. You will most likely not believe me. But if I would have been offered with a trade-off, the daily cap is introduced but in exchange all my AP progress is reset to 0, I would take that deal in a heartbeat. It would allow me to enjoy GW2 again.

Edit: And I speak about only my AP progress being reset. Everyone else would stay at where they are. Still would be a good deal for me.

Awe.1096:

william dj.6953:

Those at the top are complaining about the amount of work it takes a day to get all the ap. (amount of work it takes to stay at top of leaderboard) So by saying no, you are saying they want it to be harder for them to stay there. What a joke.

Its not a joke. You will most likely not believe me. But if I would have been offered with a trade-off, the daily cap is introduced but in exchange all my AP progress is reset to 0, I would take that deal in a heartbeat. It would allow me to enjoy GW2 again.

Exactly the point I’ve been making. You want to punish people that get more of their APs via dailies than you do. You want to jostle for position on the leader board by removing someone else’s chosen path of advancement.

This has nothing to do with “fixing a system”. This is purely about gaming the system to give one group an advantage over another by denying people that choose to get more AP from dailies their chosen path.

Actually Awe, I do believe you. The majority of those wanting these changes. I do not believe for one second, their agenda is so blatantly obvious.

So I will ask the same question just would like a different answer.

Would the changes make those at the top to the leader board. Easier or Harder to maintain that position?

VOLKON.1290:

Awe.1096:

william dj.6953:

Those at the top are complaining about the amount of work it takes a day to get all the ap. (amount of work it takes to stay at top of leaderboard) So by saying no, you are saying they want it to be harder for them to stay there. What a joke.

Its not a joke. You will most likely not believe me. But if I would have been offered with a trade-off, the daily cap is introduced but in exchange all my AP progress is reset to 0, I would take that deal in a heartbeat. It would allow me to enjoy GW2 again.

Exactly the point I’ve been making. You want to punish people that get more of their APs via dailies than you do. You want to jostle for position on the leader board by removing someone else’s chosen path of advancement.

This has nothing to do with “fixing a system”. This is purely about gaming the system to give one group an advantage over another by denying people that choose to get more AP from dailies their chosen path.

You still greatly misunderstand the agenda. You know what I would really want (as opposed to seek a compromise – daily AP cap is a compromise)? 1. Remove daily AP completly. 2. Remove the AP leaderboard from the game. 3. Hide the AP of other players so that everyone can only see their own AP value. That is what I would really want. Not “jostle for position on the leader board”.

Awe.1096:

VOLKON.1290:

Awe.1096:

william dj.6953:

Those at the top are complaining about the amount of work it takes a day to get all the ap. (amount of work it takes to stay at top of leaderboard) So by saying no, you are saying they want it to be harder for them to stay there. What a joke.

Its not a joke. You will most likely not believe me. But if I would have been offered with a trade-off, the daily cap is introduced but in exchange all my AP progress is reset to 0, I would take that deal in a heartbeat. It would allow me to enjoy GW2 again.

Exactly the point I’ve been making. You want to punish people that get more of their APs via dailies than you do. You want to jostle for position on the leader board by removing someone else’s chosen path of advancement.

This has nothing to do with “fixing a system”. This is purely about gaming the system to give one group an advantage over another by denying people that choose to get more AP from dailies their chosen path.

You still greatly misunderstand the agenda. You know what I would really want (as opposed to seek a compromise – daily AP cap is a compromise)? 1. Remove daily AP completly. 2. Remove the AP leaderboard from the game. 3. Hide the AP of other players so that everyone can only see their own AP value. That is what I would really want. Not “jostle for position on the leader board”.

Removing daily AP punishes players like myself that predominantly get our AP from the dailies and monthlies since I for one spend most of my time in WvW (and grab some Living Story on the side). Why is it that you wish to take away my primary path source of achievement points again? You’ve never been clear as to why my chosen style of play isn’t good enough to keep getting APs through regular play.

If the leader board went away I wouldn’t be affected in any way, shape or form.