Guild Wars 2

Nurvus.2891:

Everything ANet said in the Manifesto was spot on what I wanted to see in an MMO, but they seem to have gone the opposite direction on some of it.

That’s true, but you have to understand the reason behind that. ArenaNet’s goal was what they described in the Manifesto – to make a MMO for people who don’t like MMOs. They failed. Like every other big MMO, as soon as GW2 was released it was filled with MMO locusts looking for a clone of every other MMORPG they have ever played. These players filled this forum with complaint after complaint asking for the same flawed content seen in the other MMOs, driving those who were hoping GW2 would be different away (and, truth be said, GW2 did already have many flaws seen in other MMOs by release).

When the MMO locusts began to leave (which they always do), ArenaNet panicked and rushed to add Fractals of the Mist and Ascended gear, something the company itself described as poorly implemented. This cemented GW2’s change, from a MMO for those who don’t like MMOs to just one more game trying to compete with all the other clones out there.

This change is in large part due to ArenaNet’s bad design decisions with GW2, but it’s in larger part due to the community of farmers, grinders, addicts and exploiters who jump from MMO to MMO and who (for now) call GW2 their home (until the next big MMO is released).

Then:
B2P game (focus on box-sales)
Now
F2P game? (focus on gem-store)

It’s still B2P.
2/10 for the effort.

Okay this is obviously a thread I’ll have to post in yet again, because people CONTINUE to not get it. I dont’ see what’s so hard about this.

For the record, I do agree with the first point. There’s not a huge amount of Guild Wars 1 in the game. There’s a lot, but clearly not EVERYTHING you loved. Of course, anyone with a modicum of common sense would realize that different people loved different things, so they couldn’t be true, unless Mike O’Brien is a mind reader. And if everything was the same…it would be Guild Wars 1. Beyond that..\

The second point is clearly talking about how in most MMOs you have to grind to get to max level before the fun stuff begins. It’s been clarified over and over again, or was when the Manifesto came out, and people just ignore it.

You dont’ have to wait 80 levels to get to fun encounters. You get the Shadow Behemoth and the Great Wurm in starter zones as an example. It’s not a grind to GET TO the fun stuff. No one said there wouldn’t be grinding at end game. That’s what what is being said here.

Furthermore there was a clarification posted after the manifesto released about confusion as to how something could be part of a persistent world and still permanent. Colin is talking about dynamic events. Ree is talking about personal story. Both things are in the game. Editing makes it confusing but it’s pretty clear.

When you do your personal story, which Ree is talking about, no one is doing the same thing as you because it’s in an instance. That’s it.

While this can certainly be easy to misunderstand, it was clarified immediately after the manifesto released, publicly on Guild Wars 2 guru and people understood this.

To bring up something that was made two years before the game launched that’s a statement of intent, ignore the published clarifications of it, and bring it up again and again in multiple threads is beyond ludicrous.

The game direction didn’t change. You didn’t understand the manifesto (not entirely your fault, OP, it’s confusing. Hence the clarification).

Nurvus.2891:

It’s still B2P.
2/10 for the effort.

Special for people like you I did put something behind it between ( ).

But then still you don’t get it apparently.

2/10 for the effort.

Nurvus.2891:

I really like alot of things about Guild Wars 2.
I believe it managed to successfully stand out amidst the concept of MMO.
I particularly like the style of the world, art and UI.
I like the semi-targetless system and dodge.

Still, alot of it feels unpolished, but I won’t get into details here.
Instead, I want to voice my concerns on ANet’s current design philosophy, comparing to their claims in the Guild Wars 2 Manifesto Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

Everything ANet said in the Manifesto was spot on what I wanted to see in an MMO, but they seem to have gone the opposite direction on some of it.
a) “Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=0m48s
I greatly disagree here. Apart from the world, Lore and nomenclature of game systems, most of GW1 is gone.
GW1 was greatly renowned for its extreme customizability.
You could effectively build your equipment exactly the way you wanted; you could play around with builds anytime; there was no gear treadmill and no one missed it.
There was very little randomness in combat.
There was no trash loot – everything was either useful for crafting, or for collectors.
Your superiority over someone else was mostly defined by your skill and strategy, not gear.
GW2 threw away alot of great, solid concepts from GW1 to – apparently – meet halfway with popular MMO standards.

b) “In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks – occasionally – that you need to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, hey, I swung it again, that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=1m26s
Isn’t that exactly what we do when we get to max level?
We repeat the same content endlessly for the sake of obtaining certain items.
In fact, isn’t the Magic Find stat proof that you intend players to grind?

c) “As a structure, the MMO has lost its ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=1m46s
Isn’t this precicely what happens throughout the whole game?
The same enemy, boss or event repeating every 5-20 minutes?
The process of retaking or defending a point should take longer, last longer and be alot more worthwhile.

Furthermore, the personal story makes you feel like something of a hero for a little while, but in the end the true Hero is Trehearne.
He’s the one who does everything worth mentioning, and then just tells you “he couldn’t have done it without you.”
I didn’t feel like a hero at all in the last half of the personal story.
—-

I think the game has a great potential and I hope ANet keeps up at full steam.

1) What you, personally loved about GW1 isn’t exactly what others loved about it. Though I must counter your points, first in saying that GW2 is extremely customizable thanks to transmutation stones, skins, and just a lot of set pieces for each armor class. The equipment and/or spec can be built however you want it, to suit whatever you want (effective or not). There’s very little randomness in this game’s combat, it’s mostly skill/movement (though crits are random, but that’s every game). Trash loot = coin. This is also an MMO, not like GW1, which was not (even the devs have said that), so trash loot is a given. Gear isn’t a measure of superiority in this game. Not sure if you know it or not, but this game has a gear plateau that caps off, where everyone is even (and I’ve seen level 60 characters beat level 80 Exotic decked ones in WvW, so..ya).

2) Um, not sure if you’re paying attention, but the Living Story isn’t the same content. There’s new content every two weeks. And no, you’re not just “swing a sword”, there’s many other things to do and go about participating in; if a player is just swinging a sword at the same mob over and over again, that’s their choice, but not their only option.

3) Back to what I said in pt#2, the Living Story adds new content to complete every few weeks. Besides that, there are literally hundreds to thousands of Dynamic Events in the game’s world that players can participate in (but I guess you’re wanting to only do the ones with “phat loots”, which is hypocritical of pt#1) Also, if you’ve noticed for WvW, they’ve added and are adding a lot more Mastery Ranks and other features to help flesh it out so that control and fights last far longer than it has in the past.

4) Everyone hates Trehearn, EVERYONE. There’s not a being alive who likes that selfish twig. But, the personal story isn’t the end-all for PvE, as seen by the Living Story (with characters like Rox, Marjory, and Canach).

@Vayne
They specifically say:
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=1m40s

I’m not twisting their words.
I’m not quoting them out of context either.

We grind dynamic events. Cycles of dynamic events, even.
We grind dungeons.
We grind fractals.
We are encouraged to repeat tasks.

And to clarify, grinding becomes more apparent when all your effort is poorly rewarded, such that you must repeat the task.
If I want a certain item skin, I must do a certain Dungeon X times, a different path each time.

ANet doesn’t need White Knights, they need people to properly help them improve the game as much as possible.
If ANet gives in to the requests of fickle players who move to the newest MMO, they will get nowhere.

@Devata
With or without the ( ), what you posted has nothing to do with the differences between what ANet promised vs what they gave us.

@Siphaed
1) What I loved about GW1 is a matter of gaming concept.
Trash loot being a given in MMOs is utter nonsense. It just introduces coin into the game at no cost and hurts the economy.
Trash loot is called Trophies in GW2.
Trophies existed in GW1. They could be sold as trash to vendors.
However, there were collectors. So there was no item with the sole purpose of being vendored.
It is a silly concept that no game needs.

2) Grinding is not a matter of content.
It’s a matter of activity.
As an example, fights that require you to do more than bash enemy skulls, are a good thing.
The current combat system is built in a way that makes it very difficult for the game to not feel grindy.
A few professions break this mold due bundles, etc, but for the most part, it’s extremely repetitive combat, both from the character’s and encounter’s perspective.

3) Hypocritical?
I am criticizing the fact that the way dynamic events are balanced encourage grinding.
The fact there are “dynamic events with phat loots” is part of the problem.
I refuse to rotate/grind the “phat loot” DEs.

I want every activity to present itself as more than viable – to be attractive in terms of effort vs time vs investment vs risk vs reward.
Anything you do, if you do it well, should feel rewarding.

Nurvus.2891:

@Vayne
They specifically say:
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=1m40s

I’m not twisting their words.
I’m not quoting them out of context either.

We grind dynamic events. Cycles of dynamic events, even.
We grind dungeons.
We grind fractals.
We are encouraged to repeat tasks.

What part of out of context are you having trouble with?

Do you know who takes single lines out of context and tries to make points with them? Lawyers and politicians. It’s actually bad reading comprehension to try to take a line out of context without considering the whole of the piece. THIS is what it actually says.

Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Now context means reading the first part and associating with with the second part. Colin is DEFINING what he means by grind in this pargraph. In most games there’s this boring grind to get to the fun stuff…when he says we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2, and then says three sentences later we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2, it’s obviously liked to what he said in the first instance of the use of the word grind.

In MMO parlance, grinding orginally meant killing mobs to gain experience to level. It’s come to mean other things which is WHY Anet took the time to define it within the manifesto. You can ignore if if you like but don’t complain when you take a single sentence out of context and try to assign a different context to it.

Wow, okay. I’ll try to be more clear then.
I’ll try to be as organized as possible. English is not my native language.

When Colin DEFINES what grinding is, he doesn’t define “grinding” itself as “having to wait to get to the fun stuff”.

He defines “grinding” as “what you do” (while waiting) to get to the fun stuff.
This means “grinding” and “waiting to get to the fun stuff” are different things, that you do simultaneously in other games.
Then he even mocks grinding by giving an example: “I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again”.
He didn’t say “I killed an enemy. I killed another enemy. Hey! I killed another one.”
He specifically identifies the activity itself as grinding.
Finally, he says that grinding (“I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again”) is not what they want players to do in GW2.

You somehow interpreted that Colin meant grinding as waiting to get to the fun stuff, and that it’s not what they want you to do.
It’s good for you to try and see the best in things, but it’s bad if you lose track of reality.
Although this is an exaggeration, it’s not that different from when a woman (or man) who is victim of domestic abuse justifies the partner’s actions.
If you criticize ANet objectively and constructively, you will help them more than by defending them.

I’m just being objective regarding a matter I’m concerned about.
I linked the whole video, and whole sentences.
I didn’t grab single sentences out of context.
I’m not posting this 1 or 2 months after launch.
I’m posting it more than 7 months later.
What I see in the game today, and what they shared in the Manifesto, is fundamentally different, and that feeling as sunk into me throughout these long months of play.

And even if for some reason Colin DID mean what you say he did – I’m willing to assume he may not have used the exact words he intended, and that he meant what you say he did – dungeons are STILL all about GRINDING your way through the trash mobs until you reach the bosses (read: fun stuff).

GW1 had “trash” mobs, but they felt more like challenges than trash.
And you would almost always have an interesting task, such as escorting an NPC through those mobs, or reaching 3 levers that open the frost gate (prophecies) or a certain mission starts relatively easy, but beating one area gives the other areas its power, such that by the time 3 areas are beaten, the last area is very hard.

Currently, you just defeat the same kind of monsters over and over again as you dash between bosses.

All I know is that it hasn’t captured my fascination at all. Especially not like GW did. I actually have to force myself to play. I get bored, frustrated, and very annoyed at the lack of polish/customization. Maybe in a year or two it’ll be that fun game we all expected. Right now it’s just very shallow and rough around the edges. It wasn’t ready for release. It still isn’t, really.

Now I can say this: if it had been what I expected from the Manifesto (big sigh…I watched that video over and over and was soooo excited for this game to launch) I’d be loving every second of it. But it isn’t.

Will it ever be? Who knows. I hope so. But I really think that the people who made that visionary Manifesto are not the same people making the command decisions any more.

Nurvus.2891:

Wow, okay. I’ll try to be more clear then.

When Colin DEFINES what grinding is, he doesn’t define it as “having to wait to get to the fun stuff”.

He says that in most games you grind TO GET to the fun stuff.
This means grinding and “waiting to get to the fun stuff” are different things.
Then he even mocks grinding by giving an example: “I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again”.
Finally, he says that (the grinding: “I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again”) is not what they want players to do in GW2.

I’m just being objective regarding a matter I’m concerned about.
I linked the whole video, and whole sentences.
I didn’t grab single sentences out of context.
I’m not posting this 1 or 2 months after launch.
I’m posting it more than 7 months later.
What I see in the game today, and what they shared in the Manifesto, is fundamentally different, and that feeling as sunk into me throughout these long months of play.

And even if for some reason Colin DID mean what you say he did – I’m willing to assume he may not have used the exact words he intended, and that he meant what you say he did – dungeons are STILL all about GRINDING your way through the trash mobs until you reach the bosses (read: fun stuff).

GW1 had “trash” mobs, but they felt more like challenges than trash.
And you would almost always have an interesting task, such as escorting an NPC through those mobs, or reaching 3 levers that open the frost gate (prophecies) or a certain mission starts relatively easy, but beating one area gives the other areas its power, such that by the time 3 areas are beaten, the last area is very hard.

Currently, you just defeat the same kind of monsters over and over again as you dash between bosses.

No that’s not what it means. I’m not sure you reading this at all.

In most games you grind “to get to” the fun stuff means what it says it means. You don’t get to fun stuff until you grind. First you grind, then you get to the fun stuff.

This is backed up by countless early interviews, where Anet talked about how most games are when you have to get to max level and then the game completely changes and you can finally start to raid. And that’s not what they wanted to do in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t want there to be leveling, and then fun stuff. They wanted there to be fun stuff throughout. That’s what he’s saying.

Furthermore, if you look at the last line of the paragraph, he says “we want to change the way people view COMBAT.”

Where is this paragraph is gear mentioned? Or tokens? Or farming? It’s not. What he’s talking about is combat.

Maybe you never played games like Aion where you ran out of quests when it was released and the only way to level was to kill the same bosses over and over again, until you could finally get to the next thing. A LOT of games are like that and that’s what he’s talking about.

All you’re doing is assigning YOUR definition of what you think grind is to a statement that has nothing to do with that at all.

But believe what you want. Everyone can read what you said and what I said and decide for themselves how the English plays out.

Still we are discussing english and interpretation. What is the purpose of this? Are you trying to win the argument or something?
First you say no one said there wouldn’t be grinding in end game.
Now you say that I’m making up my own definition of what they meant by grinding.
What grinding is, doesn’t change.

Take off the tinted glasses for a little bit.
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

This is ALL he said. Right? I’m not missing anything.
You try to link everything together, making assumptions.
My english isn’t perfect, but it’s not that bad.

Colin didn’t say “We want to change the way that people view leveling.” wich I would completely agree with if he had, and it’s what you try to imply he meant.
What he DID say was “We want to change the way that people view combat.”
Combat.
Combat, leveling and content are distinct things.

Colin didn’t say “We don’t want players to grind to get to the fun stuff.”
He said “We don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2.”

When he says “No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.” what do you think he meant?
Again, you probably think he meant “grinding to get to the fun stuff.”
No, he meant grinding. Period.
Grinding isn’t the same as grinding to get to the fun stuff.
Grinding is grinding.
Grinding to get to the fun stuff, is grinding PLUS waiting to get to the fun stuff.
Two different things.

Even if Colin himself said that he meant what you say he did, I still believe today’s ANet isn’t holding the same principles they did in the manifesto, and it worries me.

Almost everything ANet changed in GW2 from alpha to beta to launch was in the likeness of a certain popular MMO.

I hope it’s clarified.
—-

And now a question for you:
Do you feel like the game represents the design philosophy ANet shared in the Manifesto?
Because everyone I know doesn’t.
Certain aspects of the game are clearly in the right track, but none of them is just as they said they wanted it to be.

The game doesn’t care that you’re there.
You don’t feel like a hero.
The boss you killed respawns 10 minutes later.
Fighting is a grind in most of the game, specially end game – although bosses and certain DEs give you interesting fights.

A clear example of “grinding” is the fact that 95% of non-Boss enemies have a bland fighting style.
They have a health pool, and a dps.
Sometimes, they have a cheesy attack, like stun or pull.
You barely ever see enemies using condition removal, healing, boon removal, defensive skills, etc.
You can rush to 99% of enemies and just burst them down, meaning you do the same thing over and over again throughout nearly all of your encounters.

In GW1, almost all enemy skills were the same skills available to players.
Exceptions being some mission bosses and a few hard mode enemies.
The simplest of enemies would regularly drop something you actually wanted.

In GW2, there is a great randomness in almost everything you do, making repeating the same activity almost mandatory to obtain results.
When it comes to fighting, it’s grinding.

Nurvus.2891:

Still we are discussing english and interpretation. What is the purpose of this? Are you trying to win the argument or something?
First you say no one said there wouldn’t be grinding in end game.
Now you say that I’m making up my own definition of what they meant by grinding.
What grinding is, doesn’t change.

Take off the tinted glasses for a little bit.
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

This is ALL he said. Right? I’m not missing anything.
You try to link everything together, making assumptions.
My english isn’t perfect, but it’s not that bad.

Colin didn’t say “We want to change the way that people view leveling.” wich I would completely agree with if he had, and it’s what you try to imply he meant.
What he DID say was “We want to change the way that people view combat.”
Combat.
Combat, leveling and content are distinct things.

Colin didn’t say “We don’t want players to grind to get to the fun stuff.”
He said “We don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2.”

When he says “No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.” what do you think he meant?
Again, you probably think he meant “grinding to get to the fun stuff.”
No, he meant grinding. Period.
Grinding isn’t the same as grinding to get to the fun stuff.
Grinding is grinding.
Grinding to get to the fun stuff, is grinding PLUS waiting to get to the fun stuff.
Two different things.

Even if Colin himself said that he meant what you say he did, I still believe today’s ANet isn’t holding the same principles they did in the manifesto, and it worries me.

Almost everything ANet changed in GW2 from alpha to beta to launch was in the likeness of a certain popular MMO.

I hope it’s clarified.
—-

And now a question for you:
Do you feel like the game represents the design philosophy ANet shared in the Manifesto?
Because everyone I know doesn’t.
Certain aspects of the game are clearly in the right track, but none of them is just as they said they wanted it to be.

The game doesn’t care that you’re there.
You don’t feel like a hero.
The boss you killed respawns 10 minutes later.
Fighting is a grind in most of the game, specially end game – although bosses and certain DEs give you interesting fights.

A clear example of “grinding” is the fact that 95% of non-Boss enemies have a bland fighting style.
They have a health pool, and a dps.
Sometimes, they have a cheesy attack, like stun or pull.
You barely ever see enemies using condition removal, healing, boon removal, defensive skills, etc.
You can rush to 99% of enemies and just burst them down, meaning you do the same thing over and over again throughout nearly all of your encounters.

In GW1, almost all enemy skills were the same skills available to players.
Exceptions being some mission bosses and a few hard mode enemies.
The simplest of enemies would regularly drop something you actually wanted.

In GW2, there is a great randomness in almost everything you do, making repeating the same activity almost mandatory to obtain results.
When it comes to fighting, it’s grinding.

Unfortunately I’ve edited for a living. I know a thing or two about English. When we had this argument originally on the forums I talked to other editors. Every single one of them agrees with me. The first sentence using the word grind gave the context, the second referred to it.

Frankly if you can’t agree with that, there’s absolutely nothing to talk about. You simply don’t know enough about the language to argue it.

If he hadn’t mentioned grind in the first place and defined it in that first sentence, you’d be right.

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function."

Yes, we KNOW your’e offfended. Guild Wars 1 was the best game ever made, it had no flaws, and everyone loved it so much it was a house hold name.

Unfortunately, that one single line from the entire manifesto wasn’t true. But there was SO much information about this game before it launched, from skills being bound to weapons, to how dynamic events worked to how the personal story worked.

You took one line out of a manifesto, and it’s offended you so bad, you take no responsibility for not actually listening to anything else Anet said. Because 90% of what they said is what the game is.

You just weren’t listening.

Oh, I’ve been following the whole GW2 development process ever since the first blog posts my holy white knight.
I’m not against innovations, but, what makes it painful is seeing how they failed to deliver most of the things they promised.
And now to add to it, they’re doing this LS thing and I’m not even sure if I’ll ever see Elona or Cantha again.

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

This is exactly my main problem with GW2.

We were promised GW1 in a persistant world, and that is far from what we got.
Also this was the original promise when the game was first announced, back in the day. That was all that was needed.
Why oh why did anet have to go and ruin the awesome combat system? That was the best thing about GW1 and they threw it off the window like a vulgar kitten.

Anet give us the Guild Wars 2 you promised. I dont care about the later promises or details. Years ago after nightfall you announced EotN and GW2 and you said you would stop supporting GW1 to make GW2 a persistant GW1. We all liked that idea… why did you change that? You killed GW1 for this?! I loved GW1, it was my home. I am deeply wounded by what you have done with GW2. Me am my guildies waited years in antecipation only to be greeted by a repetitive and boring game with no teamwork and now everyone went their separate ways.
You destroyed communities and the hearts of those that loved GW1. Its lost forever now. GW2 is beyond redemption, you blew it anet.

The only thing left to do now if you want to recover your old sucess i use the GW2 engine and make a GW3 that is what you originally promised us: GW1 in a persistant world.

Nemmar.8491:

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

This is exactly my main problem with GW2.

We were promised GW1 in a persistant world, and that is far from what we got.
Also this was the original promise when the game was first announced, back in the day. That was all that was needed.
Why oh why did anet have to go and ruin the awesome combat system? That was the best thing about GW1 and they threw it off the window like a vulgar kitten.

Anet give us the Guild Wars 2 you promised. I dont care about the later promises or details. Years ago after nightfall you announced EotN and GW2 and you said you would stop supporting GW1 to make GW2 a persistant GW1. We all liked that idea… why did you change that? You killed GW1 for this?! I loved GW1, it was my home. I am deeply wounded by what you have done with GW2. Me am my guildies waited years in antecipation only to be greeted by a repetitive and boring game with no teamwork and now everyone went their separate ways.
You destroyed communities and the hearts of those that loved GW1. Its lost forever now. GW2 is beyond redemption, you blew it anet.

The only thing left to do now if you want to recover your old sucess i use the GW2 engine and make a GW3 that is what you originally promised us: GW1 in a persistant world.

Or you can just go back playing GW1…

Or you can just go back playing GW1…

Or you can go back to playing ultima? The game is dead and abandoned for years. If anet decided to support it again, you bet i would go back.

It still doesnt change the fact we were promised a GW1 in a persistant world.
Or, more realisticly, i just went to play a different game and anet gets 0 revenue from me now.

Honestly, its guys like you that are harming this game the most now. This game is dieing. There is no future for it in its current form. Pretend nothing is wrong. I’m sure it will save it and the company.

Nemmar.8491:

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

This is exactly my main problem with GW2.

We were promised GW1 in a persistant world, and that is far from what we got.
Also this was the original promise when the game was first announced, back in the day. That was all that was needed.
Why oh why did anet have to go and ruin the awesome combat system? That was the best thing about GW1 and they threw it off the window like a vulgar kitten.

Anet give us the Guild Wars 2 you promised. I dont care about the later promises or details. Years ago after nightfall you announced EotN and GW2 and you said you would stop supporting GW1 to make GW2 a persistant GW1. We all liked that idea… why did you change that? You killed GW1 for this?! I loved GW1, it was my home. I am deeply wounded by what you have done with GW2. Me am my guildies waited years in antecipation only to be greeted by a repetitive and boring game with no teamwork and now everyone went their separate ways.
You destroyed communities and the hearts of those that loved GW1. Its lost forever now. GW2 is beyond redemption, you blew it anet.

The only thing left to do now if you want to recover your old sucess i use the GW2 engine and make a GW3 that is what you originally promised us: GW1 in a persistant world.

Some of us prefer Guild Wars 2 combat. Static combat sucks. Guild Wars 1 had some great tools to build, but the combat was nothing to write home about.

The combination of rubberbanding and stuff like the bridge bug, where you couldn’t hit something on a bridge with a bow wasn’t exactly great programming either.

People have this magical memory of this happier time. It was a good game. I enjoyed it. But the combat system had myriad flaws, not the least of which was it was absolutely impossible to balance, and you pretty much won or lost before you ever left an outpost, simply on the strength of your builds (which you could look up).

It wasn’t called build wars for nothing.

Vayne.8563:

great programming

Stop generalizing and face the facts.

Vayne.8563:

Nemmar.8491:

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

This is exactly my main problem with GW2.

We were promised GW1 in a persistant world, and that is far from what we got.
Also this was the original promise when the game was first announced, back in the day. That was all that was needed.
Why oh why did anet have to go and ruin the awesome combat system? That was the best thing about GW1 and they threw it off the window like a vulgar kitten.

Anet give us the Guild Wars 2 you promised. I dont care about the later promises or details. Years ago after nightfall you announced EotN and GW2 and you said you would stop supporting GW1 to make GW2 a persistant GW1. We all liked that idea… why did you change that? You killed GW1 for this?! I loved GW1, it was my home. I am deeply wounded by what you have done with GW2. Me am my guildies waited years in antecipation only to be greeted by a repetitive and boring game with no teamwork and now everyone went their separate ways.
You destroyed communities and the hearts of those that loved GW1. Its lost forever now. GW2 is beyond redemption, you blew it anet.

The only thing left to do now if you want to recover your old sucess i use the GW2 engine and make a GW3 that is what you originally promised us: GW1 in a persistant world.

Some of us prefer Guild Wars 2 combat. Static combat sucks. Guild Wars 1 had some great tools to build, but the combat was nothing to write home about.

The combination of rubberbanding and stuff like the bridge bug, where you couldn’t hit something on a bridge with a bow wasn’t exactly great programming either.

People have this magical memory of this happier time. It was a good game. I enjoyed it. But the combat system had myriad flaws, not the least of which was it was absolutely impossible to balance, and you pretty much won or lost before you ever left an outpost, simply on the strength of your builds (which you could look up).

It wasn’t called build wars for nothing.

Well, despite all those limitations, at least i wasnt bored when playing Build Wars.

Nick.6972:

Vayne.8563:

great programming

Stop generalizing and face the facts.

The FACTS are, most spells in Guild Wars 1 you had to stand still to cast. That’s a fact. I’m not making that up. Or do you disagree with that?

I prefer to move and cast. Is that unreasonable to you?

The FACT is, I could go into 95% plus places in Guild Wars 1 PVe, cross my arms and beat stuff, because my heroes were so powerful. That’s a fact. And yes, I even mean hard mode.

The FACT is, Guild Wars 1 was called Build Wars by a lot of people for a reason. The building was the game. But builds are not combat. Building is building. Combat is combat. Sorry you can’t see a difference.

The fact is, some people like an dynamic combat system better than a static one. And some people like more skills to choose from, and to make all sorts of neat builds.

But it’s a fact that nothing exists in Guild Wars 2 like a permasin, that could literally tank pretty much forever, without taking damage. People complain about Guild Wars 2’s balancing…but compared to Guild Wars 1, there’s no comparison.

You accuse me of being a Guild Wars 2 fan boy…does anyone else see the hypocrisy here?

That’s your subjective opinion.

But, try looking at manifesto objectively without bias.

Can you do that?

Vayne.8563:

Nemmar.8491:

Nick.6972:

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
This sentence offends me and the people I know who loved GW1 the most.

Imagine – Apple Iphone 7 Conference -
" We founded Apple to innovate, so Iphone 7 is our opportunity to question everything.

Iphone 7 takes everything we know you loved about previous Iphones and puts it into this full qwerty keyboard phone with no touchscreen function, additionally, now we’re using Android Os."

Like really?

This is exactly my main problem with GW2.

We were promised GW1 in a persistant world, and that is far from what we got.
Also this was the original promise when the game was first announced, back in the day. That was all that was needed.
Why oh why did anet have to go and ruin the awesome combat system? That was the best thing about GW1 and they threw it off the window like a vulgar kitten.

Anet give us the Guild Wars 2 you promised. I dont care about the later promises or details. Years ago after nightfall you announced EotN and GW2 and you said you would stop supporting GW1 to make GW2 a persistant GW1. We all liked that idea… why did you change that? You killed GW1 for this?! I loved GW1, it was my home. I am deeply wounded by what you have done with GW2. Me am my guildies waited years in antecipation only to be greeted by a repetitive and boring game with no teamwork and now everyone went their separate ways.
You destroyed communities and the hearts of those that loved GW1. Its lost forever now. GW2 is beyond redemption, you blew it anet.

The only thing left to do now if you want to recover your old sucess i use the GW2 engine and make a GW3 that is what you originally promised us: GW1 in a persistant world.

Some of us prefer Guild Wars 2 combat. Static combat sucks. Guild Wars 1 had some great tools to build, but the combat was nothing to write home about.

The combination of rubberbanding and stuff like the bridge bug, where you couldn’t hit something on a bridge with a bow wasn’t exactly great programming either.

People have this magical memory of this happier time. It was a good game. I enjoyed it. But the combat system had myriad flaws, not the least of which was it was absolutely impossible to balance, and you pretty much won or lost before you ever left an outpost, simply on the strength of your builds (which you could look up).

It wasn’t called build wars for nothing.

It is sad that I actually prefer the static combat over GW2’s “active” combat system. I will say that in other games, I now find the combat to be a bit slow. However, I’d rather slow the combat down than have GW2’s one-hit-wonder combat system, which seems to have been built around the downed state.

But back on topic…

If you look back at GW1 and its system of progression and leveling, I believe you’ll get a clearer understanding of how ANET views the term “grinding.” In the character progression sense, GW1 only had 20 character levels. You spent very little time getting your character to max level. After putting together your max gear set (which also did not cost much), you could experience almost all of the game content. What grinding GW1 DID have was in titles and farming. If you wanted the ultra elite title or that uber looks set of gear, you ground your a** off for it.

From that perspective, GW2 is very similar to GW1. It takes little time to get to max level. And (in the grand scheme of things) getting decent gear does not take very long either. Once you max level and get the decent gear, you can experience most of the content that GW2 has to offer with very little grinding required. However, if you want the extra goodies, you’ll again be grinding you kitten off all day every day.

I think most players would want less “kill 20 of these” or “click 50 of this” type quests. However, this type of quest design seems to be the easiest to design; hence, why it is so commonplace in most games.

Edit spell check not included

I prefer GW2 combat to GW1 combat, in concept.
Supposedly, everything should be better, right?
Yet it’s not – not everything.

PROS:
1 – Instead of auto-attack + 8 skills, you now have auto-attack + 9 skills + Profession Mechanic(s) (F1, etc).
You even get bundles, wich increase the number skills even further.
2 – The game is more responsive.
3 – You have the ability to dodge, wich adds a layer of skill and tactic.

CONS:
A – The game is built around kiting. This is a MAJOR flaw.
You benefit from being ranged and drawing circles around your enemy.
In PvE, this often means you never die to most enemies.
In PvP, this still means you have a great advantage.
The culprit in this, is precicely the ability to move while casting/attacking with NO downside whatsoever.

If using a skill while moving made you move X% slower while activating the skill, perhaps there wouldn’t be so much of a focus on Kiting.

If there were more uses to Endurance, like Parry (suggested in the Endurance 2.0 thread in my signature), Safe Roll, etc, perhaps there wouldn’t be so much of a focus on Kiting.

B – The way Attributes, Gear, Traits & Weapons interact pigeonholes you into specific builds.
This may be backed up by a desire to make the game balanced – but it lowers the fun for alot of players, and still isn’t balanced.

C – Some Attributes feel gimmicky, like Vitality and Healing Power.
Vitality is a filler. You don’t die slower. You just take longer to die. Yes, it’s different. However, you also take longer to heal…
Speaking of Healing, it is the only supportive skill type that requires a whole stat investment in order to work properly.
You can build whatever way you want, and use Protection, Blind, Weakness, Aegis, at full power.
Furthermore, they scale. Protection reduces damage by 33% whether it’s 100 or 10000.
But if you want to heal, you need to sacrifice a whole stat, and it doesn’t even scale.

D – Certain mechanics are gimmicky, like damage conditions being severely kitten in group content.
What’s the point of Combo Field: Fire plus Projectile/Whirl, if you’re going to be hindering each other’s contribution?
What’s the point of having 2-3 bleed builds in the same group?

E – Terrain advantage and somewhat realistic projectile behavior.
This was something really awesome about GW1.

You could really dodge fireballs by moving out of their way, and shooting a bow from higher ground meant more damage.

So, I don’t want this game to be GW1 on steroids.
I just think ANet dumped alot of the best things about GW1, and replaced them with alot of bad things from insert popular MMO.

If they knew the manifesto video was the subject of mass misinterpretation, they should have redone it to be more clear. Or taken it down. Anything short of that would be, at best, irresponsible. And at worst, intentionally misleading.

Rooks Zaer.5846:

If they knew the manifesto video was the subject of mass misinterpretation, they should have redone it to be more clear. Or taken it down. Anything short of that would be, at best, irresponsible. And at worst, intentionally misleading.

This is the Internet. Once something is posted; that kitten never goes away

Nick.6972:

That’s your subjective opinion.

But, try looking at manifesto objectively without bias.

Can you do that?

I have done it. As an editor not as a disenfranchised Guild Wars 1 fan. You think you’re being objective. I don’t think you are. I think you’re as subjective as hell.

Over the years I’ve had to leave my prejudice at the door while editing. I literally have to turn off preconceptions…it comes with the territory. It’s about reading what’s THERE.

The word grind, as used in that sentence was never defined in the way most people claim it is. They simply have an IDEA of what grind is.

And because I clearly remember the clarification Anet published right after that manifesto, I dare say I’m a whole lot less subjective than you are. After all, Anet explained what they meant in simple English, because some people DID misunderstand. Particularly the bit about Colin talking about DEs and Ree talking about personal story.

But yeah, I almost always read objectively…it’s an occupational hazard. You’re the one assigning a new value to the word grind, when another definition was provided two or three lines earlier.

Rooks Zaer.5846:

If they knew the manifesto video was the subject of mass misinterpretation, they should have redone it to be more clear. Or taken it down. Anything short of that would be, at best, irresponsible. And at worst, intentionally misleading.

They posted a clarification. they stopped talking about it It’s two years old. They’ve had so much stuff after it, that it’s beyond amazing that this is ALL anyone talks about. It would be like going to an architect and he draws some stuff about how he wants the house to look, not a mechanical drawing, but a sketch to give you an idea.

And btw, I don’t think “most” people misinterpret the manifesto. I think that a couple of people deliberately look to malign the game because they’re feeling disenfranchised. Remember, I believe the manifesto for the most part, was fulfilled. And I’m not alone in this, in spite of what others think.

Maybe if they hadn’t provided dozens of hours of footage after the fact about what specifically would be in the game, you’d have a point…but they were VERY explicit about what a dynamic event was, what the personal story was…the very word manifesto only means a statement of intent…nothing more. It’s a goal to aspire to. It’s not a guarantee of delivery.

Anyone can pick anything apart if they truly want to. Just look at politicians and lawyers.

Vayne.8563:

They posted a clarification. they stopped talking about it It’s two years old. They’ve had so much stuff after it, that it’s beyond amazing that this is ALL anyone talks about. It would be like going to an architect and he draws some stuff about how he wants the house to look, not a mechanical drawing, but a sketch to give you an idea.

Here is a link showing the guild wars 2 main site on May 10th, 2012.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120510235808/http://www.guildwars2.com/en/

Notice the direct link to the manifesto trailer on the right side.

The manifesto video has -always- been front and center for this game prior to launch.

Vayne.8563:

And btw, I don’t think “most” people misinterpret the manifesto. I think that a couple of people deliberately look to malign the game because they’re feeling disenfranchised. Remember, I believe the manifesto for the most part, was fulfilled. And I’m not alone in this, in spite of what others think.

Vayne, please do not try to over generalize people in your vision of their bad intentions. Even though I don’t play much GW2 lately, I visit the forums because I care and still want to believe in this game. You may not agree with my opinion and viewpoint on this game’s direction. But, that does not mean that I want this game to fail.

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

And btw, I don’t think “most” people misinterpret the manifesto. I think that a couple of people deliberately look to malign the game because they’re feeling disenfranchised. Remember, I believe the manifesto for the most part, was fulfilled. And I’m not alone in this, in spite of what others think.

Vayne, please do not try to over generalize people in your vision of their bad intentions. Even though I don’t play much GW2 lately, I visit the forums because I care and still want to believe in this game. You may not agree with my opinion and viewpoint on this game’s direction. But, that does not mean that I want this game to fail.

See that means your part of the problem with the game your missing out on events and new add on and your views are just simply out dated.

Any way if we look from GW1 to GW2 the main changes is philosophy is moving from an single player game that you can play with other ppl to a full must have other ppl type of play. That alone changes a lot of things and add in a lot more factors to how a game will run.

Jski.6180:

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

And btw, I don’t think “most” people misinterpret the manifesto. I think that a couple of people deliberately look to malign the game because they’re feeling disenfranchised. Remember, I believe the manifesto for the most part, was fulfilled. And I’m not alone in this, in spite of what others think.

Vayne, please do not try to over generalize people in your vision of their bad intentions. Even though I don’t play much GW2 lately, I visit the forums because I care and still want to believe in this game. You may not agree with my opinion and viewpoint on this game’s direction. But, that does not mean that I want this game to fail.

See that means your part of the problem with the game your missing out on events and new add on and your views are just simply out dated.

Any way if we look from GW1 to GW2 the main changes is philosophy is moving from an single player game that you can play with other ppl to a full must have other ppl type of play. That alone changes a lot of things and add in a lot more factors to how a game will run.

Wow… just wow… personal attacks are unwarranted. I’ve played off and on through the beginning of the dragon bash. Since when did you become an expert on me?

I often wonder if some posters have some kind of arrangement with the establishment…

Nick.6972:

Vayne.8563:

great programming

Stop generalizing and face the facts.

Imma go out on a limb and say that this is a loading issue, where the total data bandwidth of your system cannot cope up with the total processing speed your computer is doing.

Nick.6972:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

That’s your subjective opinion.

But, try looking at manifesto objectively without bias.

Can you do that?

I have done it. As an editor not as a disenfranchised Guild Wars 1 fan. You think you’re being objective. I don’t think you are. I think you’re as subjective as hell.

Over the years I’ve had to leave my prejudice at the door while editing. I literally have to turn off preconceptions…it comes with the territory. It’s about reading what’s THERE.

The word grind, as used in that sentence was never defined in the way most people claim it is. They simply have an IDEA of what grind is.

And because I clearly remember the clarification Anet published right after that manifesto, I dare say I’m a whole lot less subjective than you are. After all, Anet explained what they meant in simple English, because some people DID misunderstand. Particularly the bit about Colin talking about DEs and Ree talking about personal story.

But yeah, I almost always read objectively…it’s an occupational hazard. You’re the one assigning a new value to the word grind, when another definition was provided two or three lines earlier.

Where do I mention grind?
I’ll continue from there.

Advent Leader.1083:

Nick.6972:

Vayne.8563:

great programming

Stop generalizing and face the facts.

Imma go out on a limb and say that this is a loading issue, where the total data bandwidth of your system cannot cope up with the total processing speed your computer is doing.

Could be, could be not, multiple factors can cause that.

Your thread title is a misnomer, because you’re not talking about design philosophy, you’re talking about the manifesto which is a piece of marketing.

a) “Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
A marketing phase obviously untrue since the devs can’t possibly know what you love about GW1. What if you love about GW1 that’s not a sequel? You knew this phrase isn’t true the moment you heard it.
Despite that, GW2 is a lot like GW1. You make a small selection of skills out of a larger variety, unlike other MMOs where you often have 30+ skills at the same time. You reach max level rather quickly. You reach max gear rather quickly. In PvP all have the same equip. The story is told in instanced missions. You can do much of the content alone. Everyone gets his own loot. Many of the classes are quite similar. You inflict conditions on the enemy that are shared for all players. You do not have mounts but instead can port to whereever you want. Etc. I could go on for a while. And by the way, there was a lot of trash loot in GW1 and no crafting.

b) “In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks – occasionally – that you need to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, hey, I swung it again, that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.”
Could you even IMAGINE a MMO without grind? Without grind, you would just play the limited content and then stop. People don’t want a MMO without grind, they just want the grind to taste good. Whether you like the taste in GW2 is up to you.

c) “As a structure, the MMO has lost its ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
Just think about what a game you would have if this weren’t the case. A game in which it actually matters whether player X is there. Now, player X is sick to day so everybody else is screwed. How could 3 million players actually ALL be special? It’s a ridiculous thought. It’s not even possibly to tell a consistent game story in a MMO in which the player is actually the hero. It would be good if MMO developers would drop that silly notion.

And BTW, I like Trehearne and I know a lot of people who do too.

ASaturnus.4980:

And BTW, I like Trehearne and I know a lot of people who do too.

boo!

Nick.6972:

large wall of debate between you and Vayne
Could be, could be not, multiple factors can cause that.
missing image from previous post

Imma go start responding to this on a semi-technical basis, so this might get deleted because it’s off topic – the reasoning I made was based on that it generally works that way, since GW2, as far as I could see and know, was designed with the concept of stream loading (mesh and physics gets loaded first, while texturing begins after some portion is available). This is why you see missing textures and other objects generally not in the intermediate path your character will take.

Now, how about optimizing this? Since GW2 is so much of a CPU hog, I believe that most of the issues here lie in the idea that there is so much texture and meshing data being decompressed on the fly – add in the fact that the game works by receiving dynamic context from the server – and factor in memory management as well, and you have a game where even high-end CPUs struggle to hit that sweet eye-vision framerate on several maps.

Okay, now on offloading this to GPUs – I have the inkling that Anet is still on the process of redesigning the game engine, since it’s just a modification (as far as some pieces in the internet show) of the GW1 engine. That means any move to offload processing to the GPU must be handled with extreme care otherwise they will kitten off players that have been playing on rigs set for standard run of the mill MMO gaming, and not high-fx gaming (where graphics cards certainly have the cake and eat it).

In the end, the engineering and buggy issue with GW2 stems from the fact that it has so much detailed art that it could offer that the engine itself is tasked to the bone and more, and that it’ll be quite a while before client-side rendering issues might be fixed. The game, while it might not be the best in visuals, tries to impart so much of it as how it would look like in the artist’s perspective once s/he starts sketching on the drawing board.

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

And btw, I don’t think “most” people misinterpret the manifesto. I think that a couple of people deliberately look to malign the game because they’re feeling disenfranchised. Remember, I believe the manifesto for the most part, was fulfilled. And I’m not alone in this, in spite of what others think.

Vayne, please do not try to over generalize people in your vision of their bad intentions. Even though I don’t play much GW2 lately, I visit the forums because I care and still want to believe in this game. You may not agree with my opinion and viewpoint on this game’s direction. But, that does not mean that I want this game to fail.

I wasn’t necessarily talking about you. Sorry if you took it that way.

Vayne.8563:

Okay this is obviously a thread I’ll have to post in yet again, because people CONTINUE to not get it. I dont’ see what’s so hard about this.

If you feel that you have to “post in yet again” then do it. If it feels like a burden, then don’t do it. Let the TC share his opinion. And “people CONTINUE to not get it. I don’t see what’s so hard about this.” Maybe people DOOOOO get it, but DON"T agree with you. You ever thought of that? Would it make you feel better if I say something like: “Oh Vayne, your words are not helpful only to one man, but to the entire community as well!!!!” ? People like you are ignorant and think that whatever you believe is right, and what others believe (or have opinion on) is wrong. And if I recall right, you were one of the few who were against GW2 entirely several of weeks after the release date.

Simon.3106:

Vayne.8563:

Okay this is obviously a thread I’ll have to post in yet again, because people CONTINUE to not get it. I dont’ see what’s so hard about this.

If you feel that you have to “post in yet again” then do it. If it feels like a burden, then don’t do it. Let the TC share his opinion. And “people CONTINUE to not get it. I don’t see what’s so hard about this.” Maybe people DOOOOO get it, but DON"T agree with you. You ever thought of that? Would it make you feel better if I say something like: “Oh Vayne, your words are not helpful to one man, but to the entire community as well!!!!” ? People like you are ignorant and think that whatever you believe is right, and what others believe (or have opinion on) is wrong. And if I recall right, you were one of the few who were against GW2 entirely several of weeks after the release date.

As I’ve said repeatedly, English is English. Following the laws of English there’s one way to interpret what’s being said. That people want to take a different definition of grind, something that’s not at all implied in anything else in the piece, based on a single line taken out of its paragraph is pretty appalling.

People can believe anything they want. They can believe in Santa Claus for all I care. I’m not going to stop telling them he doesn’t exist.

Good boy. Now apologize to the TC for bashing him just because he shared his opinion. And if I may ask, are you at work or something? I notice that you are usually on at this time in the morning.

Simon.3106:

Good boy. Now apologize to the TC for bashing him just because he shared his opinion. And if I may ask, are you at work or something? I notice that you are usually on at this time in the morning.

I’m at work 24/7. I care for a disabled person. I have a lot of short down times to type something, do something then type something. It’s almost 4 am here, and she’s still awake. Kill me now.

And who the hell is TC?

TC = Topic Creator
OP = Original Post
CD = Cooldown

Simon.3106:

TC = Topic Creator
OP = Original Post
CD = Cooldown

Ah, see I see TC and I think Tarnished Coast. Silly me.

And no, I won’t be apologizing to the OP. I do apologize when I think I’m wrong (I did so earlier today in another thread in fact) but this isn’t one of those times. And on that note. I’m going to bed.

Simon.3106:

TC = Topic Creator
OP = Original Post
CD = Cooldown

new one on me

Good night. And good luck. I know how stressful it is to take care of disabled people. I did it for 6 years + and I know some who have done it for 10+.