Did GW2 lose its identity?

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

GW2 never had an identity since they pretty much dumped the idea of guild wars and made a game that has nothing to do with guild wars, i am surprised you never noticed.

Maybe because the title wasn’t based on player guilds fighting each other? People keep claiming otherwise and yet I’m unable to find anything that supports their claim but have found sources from a year before launch that despite’s those claims. How could GW1 (and GW2) not have an identity because they lack something that never existed and never were?

GW1 has an identity, GW2 doesn’t.
that’s the problem here, no guild wars in guild wars 2.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Drakz.7051

Drakz.7051

Gw 1 was set in the aftermath of the guild wars, gw 2 is set in the same world but tries to distance itself as much as possible from gw 1 for some weird reason.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

GW2 never had an identity since they pretty much dumped the idea of guild wars and made a game that has nothing to do with guild wars, i am surprised you never noticed.

Maybe because the title wasn’t based on player guilds fighting each other? People keep claiming otherwise and yet I’m unable to find anything that supports their claim but have found sources from a year before launch that despite’s those claims. How could GW1 (and GW2) not have an identity because they lack something that never existed and never were?

GW1 has an identity, GW2 doesn’t.
that’s the problem here, no guild wars in guild wars 2.

As I said before, the guild wars occurred before GW1 and had nothing to do with player guilds. GW2 occurs several hundred years later than the GW1 story. You can keep using that argument but it holds no weight unless you have evidence.

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Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

I do too believe this game lost its identity. They should sit down and think about what they want with this game.

There are some core issues Ive noticed over the year this game has, comparing to others.

1. Duelling in PvE. This is the only MMO which doesn’t have duel option. There is no reason not to implement it. Its been beaten to death over many topics already and there are only excuses not to implement it.

The answer to “Why no Duelling?” is a resounding “HELL NO!” from the majority of the playerbase and developers alike. It clashes with the fully-cooperative nature and identity of Guild Wars 2’s Open World PvE.

2. WvW maps are far too gigantic. This mode is failure for high tier servers. In WoW, Ashran is really small which makes it great. You don’t need 2 hours to roam the map to find opponents. They are waiting you 10 seconds away from base.
Make maps 3-4 times smaller and something might change.

World Vs. World has an identity issue because it’s supposed to be large-scale strategy, PvPvE, and Big Battles all at once. It needs the large maps for the strategy aspects to work. If anything, I find the maps too small, or at least too limited. WvW is less like WoW’s roaming PvE, and more like Planetside With Swords.

3. Bug fixing. Just look at revenant. 1 year later and nothing has been fixed. I wanted to main it for far too long, but I cant as it feels like in early alpha.

4. Lack of stability. Makers of this game are rushing to bring out new content without previously stabilising old one. Good examples are racial skills and build trees. Revenants state confirms this boldly. Why not firstly take your time to reflect at what you want with classes? Their kit shouldn’t be changed, but rather expanded. What you guys do is expanding something that is not previously stable and polished..

5. Build templates. This could be considered under 4, but its been asked for so long that its issue itself! For unknown reason, developers keep refusing to bring us this feature, which is considered as essential in most modern MMOs.

As nice as these features would be, they have nothing to do with game identity. Except maybe Point 4, which is simply

6. Maps. I strongly believe PvE maps should be released with each expansions and not otherwise. Main focus in between expansions should be PvP maps and PvP modes.
I kinda want to see many PvP maps available, which keeps people entertained faaar longer. Skills can be polished and stabilised alongside PvP map releases, which is great organisation imo.

Your opinion is largely wrong, because the VAST majority of players have and want absolutely nothing to do with PvP. You could pump out a new PvP map per week, and the majority of the player base wouldn’t even give a kitten .

The game is afflicted with split identity – one is a desire for a PvE gameworld without the PvE nonsense other games put out (And they’re always experimenting to try and find what works) They want a world where players coordinate and work together, and I suspect they’re more frustrated than anything with the playerbases’ rabid resentment of calls to cooperate/coordinate and get better at the game’s mechanics.

They also want to be a strongly competitive E-sport.

GW2 never had an identity since they pretty much dumped the idea of guild wars and made a game that has nothing to do with guild wars, i am surprised you never noticed.

Maybe because the title wasn’t based on player guilds fighting each other? People keep claiming otherwise and yet I’m unable to find anything that supports their claim but have found sources from a year before launch that despite’s those claims. How could GW1 (and GW2) not have an identity because they lack something that never existed and never were?

GW1 has an identity, GW2 doesn’t.
that’s the problem here, no guild wars in guild wars 2.

As I said before, the guild wars occurred before GW1 and had nothing to do with player guilds. GW2 occurs several hundred years later than the GW1 story. You can keep using that argument but it holds no weight unless you have evidence.

Actually, the title has everything to do with player guilds, and the original game’s identity. The core identity of GW1 was “PvE MMO that leads to a PvP GvG based Endgame”, that they drifted away from during the development of Prophesies, doubled down on in Factions, and only really started to turn away from in Nightfall. The developers wanted the game to be a PvP E-sport so badly they even named their studio after the concept.

Yes, there’s a silly event in the history called “The Guild Wars” that keeps the game’s Artifact Title somewhat relevant, but it’s only a light patch.

(edited by Sartharina.3542)

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

GW2 never had an identity since they pretty much dumped the idea of guild wars and made a game that has nothing to do with guild wars, i am surprised you never noticed.

Maybe because the title wasn’t based on player guilds fighting each other? People keep claiming otherwise and yet I’m unable to find anything that supports their claim but have found sources from a year before launch that despite’s those claims. How could GW1 (and GW2) not have an identity because they lack something that never existed and never were?

GW1 has an identity, GW2 doesn’t.
that’s the problem here, no guild wars in guild wars 2.

The funny bit is I played Guild Wars for more than most people and never ever involved myself in Guild vs Guild combat, or PvP at all. The general shift in Guild Wars was from a PvP-centric game, which was intended, to a PvE-centric game which it became.

Evidence? The last two titles didn’t bother with PvP at all. Anet realized by then on which side it’s bread was buttered. PvE was popular and I’m guessing most players never touched GvG.

I believe this because if everyone or even most people GvGed, Anet wouldn’t have likely dropped it in the expansion. They dropped it for a reason. My guess it wasn’t as popular as people who liked it and lived it think.

The bottom line is, GvG was probably quite niche and therefore for most people wouldn’t have been part of the identity of Guild Wars 1. It sure wasn’t for me.

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Posted by: Adry.7512

Adry.7512

A game with NO identity is the best kind of game!

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

And what about WvW and sPvP players that absolutly hate open world? You are also part of an exclusive club with all legendary weapons with and after HoT.

Ah, the difference is that i’m all for WvW and sPvP players getting their own avenue of obtaining those. Raiders on the other hand…

they want the rewards of raiders without raiding its like me wanting bifrost without crafting it

You can buy bifrost from TP, remember?

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

i will never have a bifrost my self cause i dont have the spine to craft it that means arena net should give it to me for free?

If you are truly trying to make a good argument for your side, why throw it in the garbage by making a statement like this? No one is asking for anything for free.

they want the rewards of raiders without raiding its like me wanting bifrost without crafting it

Which you can do – you can purchase it from the TP.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

What I believe is being said is that the raid community said we want challenging content and in many of those threads, they weren’t talking about rewards and whenever someone who didn’t want to raid brought up rewards, the raiders didn’t come forward and say we want exclusive rewards only we can get. They often said things like they’d be happy with at title or a mini to show off.

Now, suddenly people who want an alternate path to legendary armor are slackers and beggars, because we don’t enjoy raiding but we still want access to those potential rewards.

It’s always been my argument that keeping rewards like legendary armor exclusive, after legendary weapons could be grinded out by almost anyone given enough time, wasn’t good for the game.

Raiders often want the best rewards, and they want the raids hard enough to keep that club exclusive. But there are less of them, and therefore, the devs start catering to a smaller user base.

People say only a small number of people are working on raids, but part of working on raids, at this point in time, is also people working on legendary armor. Unfortunately if we’re all waiting for more armor sets, and a set comes out that only raiders can get, it’s most likely not great for the game over all.

It will please the small number of people who can get it, while making everyone else feel like a second class citizen.

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Posted by: flog.3485

flog.3485

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

What I believe is being said is that the raid community said we want challenging content and in many of those threads, they weren’t talking about rewards and whenever someone who didn’t want to raid brought up rewards, the raiders didn’t come forward and say we want exclusive rewards only we can get. They often said things like they’d be happy with at title or a mini to show off.

Now, suddenly people who want an alternate path to legendary armor are slackers and beggars, because we don’t enjoy raiding but we still want access to those potential rewards.

It’s always been my argument that keeping rewards like legendary armor exclusive, after legendary weapons could be grinded out by almost anyone given enough time, wasn’t good for the game.

Raiders often want the best rewards, and they want the raids hard enough to keep that club exclusive. But there are less of them, and therefore, the devs start catering to a smaller user base.

People say only a small number of people are working on raids, but part of working on raids, at this point in time, is also people working on legendary armor. Unfortunately if we’re all waiting for more armor sets, and a set comes out that only raiders can get, it’s most likely not great for the game over all.

It will please the small number of people who can get it, while making everyone else feel like a second class citizen.

But why exactly will you feel like a second class citizen ? And how can you predict it ? Because you locked off of an armor offering stat swap while at the same time the game never required to actively change stats on a regular basis ? I personally don’t and frankly I don’t look like the fact that you consider everyone else not playing raid a second class citizen just like you said you will be. There is plenty of things that has been locked behind some content and it is not because all the other was content was easy to do or a straight up grind that all the players will go for it.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

What I believe is being said is that the raid community said we want challenging content and in many of those threads, they weren’t talking about rewards and whenever someone who didn’t want to raid brought up rewards, the raiders didn’t come forward and say we want exclusive rewards only we can get. They often said things like they’d be happy with at title or a mini to show off.

Now, suddenly people who want an alternate path to legendary armor are slackers and beggars, because we don’t enjoy raiding but we still want access to those potential rewards.

It’s always been my argument that keeping rewards like legendary armor exclusive, after legendary weapons could be grinded out by almost anyone given enough time, wasn’t good for the game.

Raiders often want the best rewards, and they want the raids hard enough to keep that club exclusive. But there are less of them, and therefore, the devs start catering to a smaller user base.

People say only a small number of people are working on raids, but part of working on raids, at this point in time, is also people working on legendary armor. Unfortunately if we’re all waiting for more armor sets, and a set comes out that only raiders can get, it’s most likely not great for the game over all.

It will please the small number of people who can get it, while making everyone else feel like a second class citizen.

But why exactly will you feel like a second class citizen ? And how can you predict it ? Because you locked off of an armor offering stat swap while at the same time the game never required to actively change stats on a regular basis ? I personally don’t and frankly I don’t look like the fact that you consider everyone else not playing raid a second class citizen just like you said you will be. There is plenty of things that has been locked behind some content and it is not because all the other was content was easy to do or a straight up grind that all the players will go for it.

To you it’s about stat swap. Seriously do you really believe most people get legendary weapons so they can stat swap? They do it because the skins are cool.

Legendary armor, from what we’ve seen so far, is the only armor in the game that animates when you go into combat. It’s very cool, to some people. And if those people can’t get it, and it’s really cool looking, yes, those people will feel like second class citizens. They’ll look at their armor, they’ll look at that armor and say wow, I wish I had that.

There are legendary backpacks, but there are two of them, one of them PvE and one of them PvP. There’s two ways to get them. There should be a WvW one too.

The problem is they’re taking time and energy to create this great animated skin and 10% of the population if that will have it. And compared to what else is out there, its’ a major upgrade.

Do you believe everyone is going to have a chance at armor that animates when you go into combat, cause I don’t.

This game has always been about skins, not stats. Top stats are not hard to get. Legendary weapons give you footprints, which are cool and set them apart from other weapons. It’s why people get legendaries. That and the cool skins/effects.

If we can’t get legendary armor without dedicating ourselves to something we don’t enjoy, yes, we’re going to feel disenfranchised.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in. Sure, I’d love to have said skins, but it’s a choice I make to eschew the content, and having made that choice, I don’t consider myself a ‘second-class citizen’.

It might be prudent, or even more accurate, to only speak for oneself, rather than an entire segment of the playerbase.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

More importantly is that PvP a mode that a player can start and play a character at lvl 1 with the only PVE requirement is the game intro and entering the pvp lobby now have to do other modes. If your one of these pvp born players who for over four years never had to do any content in any other mode to be successful how would you take this change?

Why exactly would a pure pvp only player with low-level characters want to go to all the expense of getting ascended equipment? Equipment doesn’t do a thing for you in pvp in this game (aside from giving skins, and you honestly can’t expect some of the hardest to get pve skins to be given out for (almost) free in pvp).

Doesn’t matter what they use for that’s not the issue the case is it was changed and now those people have daily gated crafting mats to use. A change that came post raid what other major changes has PvP undergone since Raiding came about? The correlation and reasoning is obvious for the change.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in. Sure, I’d love to have said skins, but it’s a choice I make to eschew the content, and having made that choice, I don’t consider myself a ‘second-class citizen’.

It might be prudent, or even more accurate, to only speak for oneself, rather than an entire segment of the playerbase.

Good luck.

Actually you can speak for a segment of the player base if you’re not quoting that you have some kind of majority. Unless you believe I’m the only single person in the game that feels this way. But I know at least several others who feel this way, and even then I’d assume we’re not the only ones. In fact we’ve seen posts from other people I don’t know who feel this way too. So obviously there are some of us out there.

I’m not claiming it’s a majority but since we don’t know the quantity of people who would feel this way or how it would affect their relationship with the game, it’s a fair point to bring up.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Well, I think it’s cool, and I can’t get it (because I choose to not participate in Raids, and even if I did choose to participate, I probably would not be welcome, as I don’t subscribe to any kind of ‘build’). I don’t feel that makes me a second-class citizen, nor do I feel like a second-class citizen.

We all make choices, and suffer the consequences of those choices. /shrug

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

It’s not a matter of locking out a single skin. It’s a matter of locking out a whole gear category. Yes, that armor does not offer higher stats, and its QoL effect is not really useful to everyone, but still it’s the armor that, by the mere fact that its name is colored purple, is the most important armor in the game.

Again, as Vayne said, it’s a matter of perception. By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”. Many people are seeing it exactly like that. And if you have chat with some raiders (or even see some of the more extreme pro-raid posters on this forum), you will see that this view is shared among at least a part of raiding community as well. In fact, there are people for whom raids are interesting only because they divide the players into first and second class citizens (and the more painful and visible that division is, the better).

You, personally, you may not think of yourself as a second class citizen just because you don’t raid. There are people that think of themselves that way. There are people raiding that think of you that way. And, based on some dev statements, it seems that there are devs that think that way as well.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: flog.3485

flog.3485

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

What I believe is being said is that the raid community said we want challenging content and in many of those threads, they weren’t talking about rewards and whenever someone who didn’t want to raid brought up rewards, the raiders didn’t come forward and say we want exclusive rewards only we can get. They often said things like they’d be happy with at title or a mini to show off.

Now, suddenly people who want an alternate path to legendary armor are slackers and beggars, because we don’t enjoy raiding but we still want access to those potential rewards.

It’s always been my argument that keeping rewards like legendary armor exclusive, after legendary weapons could be grinded out by almost anyone given enough time, wasn’t good for the game.

Raiders often want the best rewards, and they want the raids hard enough to keep that club exclusive. But there are less of them, and therefore, the devs start catering to a smaller user base.

People say only a small number of people are working on raids, but part of working on raids, at this point in time, is also people working on legendary armor. Unfortunately if we’re all waiting for more armor sets, and a set comes out that only raiders can get, it’s most likely not great for the game over all.

It will please the small number of people who can get it, while making everyone else feel like a second class citizen.

But why exactly will you feel like a second class citizen ? And how can you predict it ? Because you locked off of an armor offering stat swap while at the same time the game never required to actively change stats on a regular basis ? I personally don’t and frankly I don’t look like the fact that you consider everyone else not playing raid a second class citizen just like you said you will be. There is plenty of things that has been locked behind some content and it is not because all the other was content was easy to do or a straight up grind that all the players will go for it.

To you it’s about stat swap. Seriously do you really believe most people get legendary weapons so they can stat swap? They do it because the skins are cool.

Legendary armor, from what we’ve seen so far, is the only armor in the game that animates when you go into combat. It’s very cool, to some people. And if those people can’t get it, and it’s really cool looking, yes, those people will feel like second class citizens. They’ll look at their armor, they’ll look at that armor and say wow, I wish I had that.

There are legendary backpacks, but there are two of them, one of them PvE and one of them PvP. There’s two ways to get them. There should be a WvW one too.

The problem is they’re taking time and energy to create this great animated skin and 10% of the population if that will have it. And compared to what else is out there, its’ a major upgrade.

Do you believe everyone is going to have a chance at armor that animates when you go into combat, cause I don’t.

This game has always been about skins, not stats. Top stats are not hard to get. Legendary weapons give you footprints, which are cool and set them apart from other weapons. It’s why people get legendaries. That and the cool skins/effects.

If we can’t get legendary armor without dedicating ourselves to something we don’t enjoy, yes, we’re going to feel disenfranchised.

That is the problem though. To you it feels cool but it won’t necessarily to others. I feel like getting skins has no real value because you can swap to any preferred or matching skin you want. Here is an example: it took me some time to get the reaper greatsword that comes with HoT and yet now I ended up straight up buying a greatsword from the TP that was worth 6g only because it was a better match to the ley line pieces of armor I was wearing. And yes I believe everyone has a chance of getting it because as you said the top stats are not hard to get.

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

The dedicated raider looks just as impressive as the dedicated PvP player in other games. The time and effort required are equal and that’s why you see unique items for both pvp players and raider in other games the only difference being since raids are against the AI then they increase the stats and difficulty to compensate so gear stats go up. This of course isn’t true for GW2 there is much more mode overlap/disparity.

Personally I don’t care about the raid rewards the other modes have more longevity as pvp/wvw has the vs player aspect while fractals has the treadmill in the form of AR.
The worst thing you could do to raids at this point is to actually give them those superior rewards especially legendary armor. To much time making rewards and not enough time trying to strengthen the mode to survive after. Heck a simple fix would be to lock raid mastery points to the raid so even if people get the big reward they may enter the newer raids just to get new points to increase their mastery. But nope it’s all about the legendary armor and rewards so can raids survive a good chunk of their population afk in LA?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

That is the problem though. To you it feels cool but it won’t necessarily to others. I feel like getting skins has no real value because you can swap to any preferred or matching skin you want. Here is an example: it took me some time to get the reaper greatsword that comes with HoT and yet now I ended up straight up buying a greatsword from the TP that was worth 6g only because it was a better match to the ley line pieces of armor I was wearing. And yes I believe everyone has a chance of getting it because as you said the top stats are not hard to get.

It’s all a percentage game. Whether it looks cool to 25% of the players or 35% isn’t really relevant to what I"m saying. It certain looks cool to me, or rather, what it does is cool to me. An armor animated every time you enter battle is cool, to me. I’m pretty sure I won’t be the only one.

I have raided. I have a couple of LI. But if I raided enough to get this armor, I’d leave the game. I know I would. Because I’d come to hate the game. I’m pretty sure this isn’t the situation that any developer would want.

Once you make a suit of armor that does something no other armor in the game does, a percentage of people are going to want it. My guess is the percentage of people who’ll want it will be higher than the percentage of people willing to raid for it. And therein lies the problem.

This isn’t just a skin. It’s a skin that does something no other skin in in the game does.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

To me the biggest loss of identity is maybe in the underlying shift in design focus.

At release, GW2 was all about the world, as a crucial element of an MMO’s design. About providing a consistent, self-sufficient (events bounce back and forth without us, living store happens whether we’re there to experience it or not) and vast world in which the players would get dumped with comparatively little guidance, able to explore and learn at their own pace.
This rather brutal approach was then in turn balanced by intentionally under-balancing the game to a significant degree, old Orr zones (again intentionally, I suspect) excepted.

Nowadays, it is about providing a continuing trickle of content and a mountain of boxes to tick to keep the players engaged and coming back. To this end, a lot of steps were taken to make players feel more in control, from significant power creep in HoT over more interrupt/active-counter centric PvE enemies to crafted/quested legendaries.

Nowadays, everything is about player agency. The original design didn’t even care much about it, it was about world consistency.

And frankly both are good designs, but the modern one is entirely unlike what I originally came to the game for

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”.

Who is saying someone “is not worthy”? Not being “worthy” is a judgement, which I have not seen anywhere in game or by Anet. It doesn’t make any more sense than saying that if you don’t have a ticket, you are “not worthy” to see Hamilton…..

What is actually happening is that you have to successfully do raid content in order to get the armor.

This is exactly the same as a Legendary back item. At one time there was only 1 available through only 1 mode of game play. Now there are 2 but each is still only available through 1 mode of game play.

I don’t see a problem with this. Many MMOs have similar exclusive rewards for modes of game play.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

(edited by Djinn.9245)

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

It’s not a matter of locking out a single skin. It’s a matter of locking out a whole gear category. Yes, that armor does not offer higher stats, and its QoL effect is not really useful to everyone, but still it’s the armor that, by the mere fact that its name is colored purple, is the most important armor in the game.

Again, as Vayne said, it’s a matter of perception. By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”. Many people are seeing it exactly like that. And if you have chat with some raiders (or even see some of the more extreme pro-raid posters on this forum), you will see that this view is shared among at least a part of raiding community as well. In fact, there are people for whom raids are interesting only because they divide the players into first and second class citizens (and the more painful and visible that division is, the better).

You, personally, you may not think of yourself as a second class citizen just because you don’t raid. There are people that think of themselves that way. There are people raiding that think of you that way. And, based on some dev statements, it seems that there are devs that think that way as well.

Not sure I ever said I’m not worthy. I said I made a choice. I don’t really see how that could be quite so twisted into ‘not worthy’. Perhaps, there is some projection going on here, I don’t know.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”.

Who is saying someone “is not worthy”? Not being “worthy” is a judgement, which I have not seen anywhere in game or by Anet. It doesn’t make any more sense than saying that if you don’t have a ticket, you are “not worthy” to see Hamilton…..

What is actually happening is that you have to successfully do raid content in order to get the armor.

This is exactly the same as a Legendary back item. At one time there was only 1 available through only 1 mode of game play. Now there are 2 but each is still only available through 1 mode of game play.

I don’t see a problem with this. Many MMOs have similar exclusive rewards for modes of game play.

As I said before if it were “just a skin” I’d have no real issue with it, but legendary armor animates when in combat. No other armor in the game can.

When I bought this game, if I wanted a legendary weapon I could slowly work toward it. I could buy it off the trading post by slowly working accumulating gold. There were options in ways to get ascended armor.

Now, the game has in fact changed. New legendary weapons require participation in certain content (at least the old new ones lol) and legendary armor requires you to beat the hardest content in the game.

If we’re talking about changing identity, which is what the thread is about, I’m not sure that it can be denied in this context.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”.

Who is saying someone “is not worthy”? Not being “worthy” is a judgement, which I have not seen anywhere in game or by Anet. It doesn’t make any more sense than saying that if you don’t have a ticket, you are “not worthy” to see Hamilton…..

What is actually happening is that you have to successfully do raid content in order to get the armor.

This is exactly the same as a Legendary back item. At one time there was only 1 available through only 1 mode of game play. Now there are 2 but each is still only available through 1 mode of game play.

I don’t see a problem with this. Many MMOs have similar exclusive rewards for modes of game play.

As I said before if it were “just a skin” I’d have no real issue with it, but legendary armor animates when in combat. No other armor in the game can.

When I bought this game, if I wanted a legendary weapon I could slowly work toward it. I could buy it off the trading post by slowly working accumulating gold. There were options in ways to get ascended armor.

Now, the game has in fact changed. New legendary weapons require participation in certain content (at least the old new ones lol) and legendary armor requires you to beat the hardest content in the game.

If we’re talking about changing identity, which is what the thread is about, I’m not sure that it can be denied in this context.

Why you cant slowly work toward legenadry armor?
Because you dont like raids?
Guess what i dont like the boring open world pve, so i dont get cool legendaries like Astralia, nothing changed. You just liked the content where the reward you wanted was.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Gee, there are many cool skins locked behind content I’m not interested in.

They are not the legendary armor skin. The only one.

By saying “you’re not worthy of that armor set”, you are sending a message telling all those people “you’re second-class citizens”.

Who is saying someone “is not worthy”? Not being “worthy” is a judgement, which I have not seen anywhere in game or by Anet. It doesn’t make any more sense than saying that if you don’t have a ticket, you are “not worthy” to see Hamilton…..

What is actually happening is that you have to successfully do raid content in order to get the armor.

This is exactly the same as a Legendary back item. At one time there was only 1 available through only 1 mode of game play. Now there are 2 but each is still only available through 1 mode of game play.

I don’t see a problem with this. Many MMOs have similar exclusive rewards for modes of game play.

As I said before if it were “just a skin” I’d have no real issue with it, but legendary armor animates when in combat. No other armor in the game can.

When I bought this game, if I wanted a legendary weapon I could slowly work toward it. I could buy it off the trading post by slowly working accumulating gold. There were options in ways to get ascended armor.

Now, the game has in fact changed. New legendary weapons require participation in certain content (at least the old new ones lol) and legendary armor requires you to beat the hardest content in the game.

If we’re talking about changing identity, which is what the thread is about, I’m not sure that it can be denied in this context.

Why you cant slowly work toward legenadry armor?
Because you dont like raids?
Guess what i dont like the boring open world pve, so i dont get cool legendaries like Astralia, nothing changed. You just liked the content where the reward you wanted was.

I can slowly work to world complete, because I can do one point of interest and stop. I can slowly work toward dugeon tokens, because I can go into a dungeon, with four other people and get the dungeon done in 15 minutes. Or go to a daily PvP room and play one game now.

Even when WVW was part of world complete I could go in, do a tiny bit an stop.

To learn raids, there’s no tiny bit. You can’t learn raids in 15 minutes. The raiding I’ve done so far, has taken me hours and hours and hours.

I have no been able to do it in little bits. I can deal with 15 minutes of something that’s not fun. Hours? Not so much.

How many times do you go in your first raid group and spend 15 minutes and leave?

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

What I believe is being said is that the raid community said we want challenging content and in many of those threads, they weren’t talking about rewards and whenever someone who didn’t want to raid brought up rewards, the raiders didn’t come forward and say we want exclusive rewards only we can get. They often said things like they’d be happy with at title or a mini to show off.

Now, suddenly people who want an alternate path to legendary armor are slackers and beggars, because we don’t enjoy raiding but we still want access to those potential rewards.

It’s always been my argument that keeping rewards like legendary armor exclusive, after legendary weapons could be grinded out by almost anyone given enough time, wasn’t good for the game.

Raiders often want the best rewards, and they want the raids hard enough to keep that club exclusive. But there are less of them, and therefore, the devs start catering to a smaller user base.

People say only a small number of people are working on raids, but part of working on raids, at this point in time, is also people working on legendary armor. Unfortunately if we’re all waiting for more armor sets, and a set comes out that only raiders can get, it’s most likely not great for the game over all.

It will please the small number of people who can get it, while making everyone else feel like a second class citizen.

But why exactly will you feel like a second class citizen ? And how can you predict it ? Because you locked off of an armor offering stat swap while at the same time the game never required to actively change stats on a regular basis ? I personally don’t and frankly I don’t look like the fact that you consider everyone else not playing raid a second class citizen just like you said you will be. There is plenty of things that has been locked behind some content and it is not because all the other was content was easy to do or a straight up grind that all the players will go for it.

So it’s the stat swap everyone cares about, huh? Not the fact that this is the first (and likely also the last!) legendary armor set? You sure make a good case, bro! Nobody saw the sleight of hand at all!

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Posted by: flog.3485

flog.3485

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is how gaming works. Raid loot is always much better than anything else and it should be. People dedicate a lot of time and effort to raiding and they should be rewarded for that.

So, at first people were asking for challenging content and rewards to show off. Now there is “I’m entitled not for just exclusive, but for the best rewards because I’m doing content I asked for”. And then some people are wondering why raid community have such reputation.

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

What I believe is being said is that the raid community said we want challenging content and in many of those threads, they weren’t talking about rewards and whenever someone who didn’t want to raid brought up rewards, the raiders didn’t come forward and say we want exclusive rewards only we can get. They often said things like they’d be happy with at title or a mini to show off.

Now, suddenly people who want an alternate path to legendary armor are slackers and beggars, because we don’t enjoy raiding but we still want access to those potential rewards.

It’s always been my argument that keeping rewards like legendary armor exclusive, after legendary weapons could be grinded out by almost anyone given enough time, wasn’t good for the game.

Raiders often want the best rewards, and they want the raids hard enough to keep that club exclusive. But there are less of them, and therefore, the devs start catering to a smaller user base.

People say only a small number of people are working on raids, but part of working on raids, at this point in time, is also people working on legendary armor. Unfortunately if we’re all waiting for more armor sets, and a set comes out that only raiders can get, it’s most likely not great for the game over all.

It will please the small number of people who can get it, while making everyone else feel like a second class citizen.

But why exactly will you feel like a second class citizen ? And how can you predict it ? Because you locked off of an armor offering stat swap while at the same time the game never required to actively change stats on a regular basis ? I personally don’t and frankly I don’t look like the fact that you consider everyone else not playing raid a second class citizen just like you said you will be. There is plenty of things that has been locked behind some content and it is not because all the other was content was easy to do or a straight up grind that all the players will go for it.

So it’s the stat swap everyone cares about, huh? Not the fact that this is the first (and likely also the last!) legendary armor set? You sure make a good case, bro! Nobody saw the sleight of hand at all!

Nice constructive comment bro!! Only expressing my views about the game. To get back on topic at hand, no I don’t believe the game identity has changed. At the same time, however I believe that the game true identity were not enough expressively implemented in the core game. And I would say that it mainly comes to the fact that I played the original guild wars. In my opinion, the spirit of the game that was developed in guild wars failed to be implemented in guild wars 2 because challenging group content was only recently achieved through raids and HoT in a lesser extent. And just as guild wars would lock fow armor behind the completion of fow multiple times, I accept that legendary armor will be blocked behind raids. My disagreement with Vayne is only a matter of perception to me: animated armor is only a skin while he thinks that an animated design offers more. Edit: adding some for thought. Would it be conceivable for Anet to create a single piece of animated armor that you can acquire through LS ?

(edited by flog.3485)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Since day one the game has gated rewards that interested me behind content that didnt. Armor that incorporated elements not to be found elsewhere in the game are gated behind content that doesnt interest me at all.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Since day one the game has gated rewards that interested me behind content that didnt. Armor that incorporated elements not to be found elsewhere in the game are gated behind content that doesnt interest me at all.

But none of that content has the same overhead as raids and very few of those rewards “do something” other rewards don’t.

There are cool looking skins in the game, but they don’t animate when you go into combat. That’s more than just a skin. That’s a thing that nothing else in the game does.

Let’s say you wanted exotic gear. Easy to get. Many ways. You may like a particular skin but there’s no shortage of other skins.

There will be in the game one set of armor that animates in combat.

And then there’s the issue of the buy in. How much you have to do to get any of the other stuff. If I want a legendary weapon, running a dungeon 9 times (and 5 nowadays) is much much easier than every beating a single raid once. Not just in the ease of the content, but in the ability to get into a group, the time needed to invest to set up.

I never had to look at metas to get into dungeon groups or beat dungeons and I never needed to depend on finding a dedicated healer. Ever. Not once. Didn’t need a healer for Arah, didn’t need a healer for TA Aetherblade path, but it’s very hard to do a raid with healing, if possible at all for most people.

At the end of the day the buy in for raids to get this is too high, in spite of the fact that I really want it. But I won’t raid to get it, and that is a problem. Because there’s no alternative path to get it and there’s nothing else in the game that does the same thing.

Even with legendary backpacks they provided a PvP and PvE path.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Since day one the game has gated rewards that interested me behind content that didnt. Armor that incorporated elements not to be found elsewhere in the game are gated behind content that doesnt interest me at all.

But none of that content has the same overhead as raids and very few of those rewards “do something” other rewards don’t.

There are cool looking skins in the game, but they don’t animate when you go into combat. That’s more than just a skin. That’s a thing that nothing else in the game does.

Let’s say you wanted exotic gear. Easy to get. Many ways. You may like a particular skin but there’s no shortage of other skins.

There will be in the game one set of armor that animates in combat.

And then there’s the issue of the buy in. How much you have to do to get any of the other stuff. If I want a legendary weapon, running a dungeon 9 times (and 5 nowadays) is much much easier than every beating a single raid once. Not just in the ease of the content, but in the ability to get into a group, the time needed to invest to set up.

I never had to look at metas to get into dungeon groups or beat dungeons and I never needed to depend on finding a dedicated healer. Ever. Not once. Didn’t need a healer for Arah, didn’t need a healer for TA Aetherblade path, but it’s very hard to do a raid with healing, if possible at all for most people.

At the end of the day the buy in for raids to get this is too high, in spite of the fact that I really want it. But I won’t raid to get it, and that is a problem. Because there’s no alternative path to get it and there’s nothing else in the game that does the same thing.

Even with legendary backpacks they provided a PvP and PvE path.

Animation on armor is a cosmetic flourish not inherently better or worse than any other cosmetic option on another armor set.

Those other rewards that you say, “dont do anything,” do actually do something…they appeal to people who might very well want them but not enjoy the content that gates them.

Again, the game has ALWAYS gated rewards that are desirable to some behind content that is unpalatable to them. Details regarding what specific cosmetic option is desired and what details of the gating content are unpalatable are just that…details. Details that add up to the basic truth…the game gates many cosmetic rewards behind specific content.

That isnt to say that those details wont matter to a given player, but it seems off, to me, to define the game’s identity as having changed, not because rewards are now starting to be gated, because they always have been, but rather because one desires a specific reward and does not want to play through its gating content.

Its not that the identity has changed due to legendary armor and raids, its that some people werent affected by specific rewards or ther gating mechanisms in the past and so didnt care. But, now that they see the combination of a rewards they might desire and content they dont enjoy, its a big deal.

Essentially the game’s identity was just fine as long as only other players were being affected by reward gating, but as soon as they were affected it was some drastic, awful, game changing identity alteration.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

You know, I’ve read many times on this forum players that absolutely refuse to enter WvW because of its PvP aspect. It doesn’t matter if it is easy or difficult, scary or pleasant, boring or exciting to others; it’s just a game mode they can not and will not participate in. Now, for these players, Mistforged Hero’s Weapons are and have been locked away behind content, and are unavailable…because those players choose to abstain from WvW and there is no other way to obtain these weapons (at this time).

Who knows? Maybe, some day, there will be another way to obtain these weapons; maybe some day there will (an)other way(s) to obtain any kind of Legendary, or any and all items in the game. It happened with hats in GW…eventually.

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Posted by: Manasa Devi.7958

Manasa Devi.7958

Well, I think it’s cool, and I can’t get it (because I choose to not participate in Raids, and even if I did choose to participate, I probably would not be welcome, as I don’t subscribe to any kind of ‘build’). I don’t feel that makes me a second-class citizen, nor do I feel like a second-class citizen.

We all make choices, and suffer the consequences of those choices. /shrug

This was a choice made by ANet that clashed with a choice I never consciously made.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

It happened with hats in GW…eventually.

It also happened with Ascended Rings in GW2
The newest content (Fractals) got the newest item tier (Ascended Rings)
Now the newest content (Raids) gets the newest items (Legendary Armor)

The main difference is that Rings are easy to make, armor took them a year or two, so the next Legendary armor (from other type of content) will probably take a couple more years. If it was me, I’d put the second Legendary armor in the next expansion, as an extra incentive to buy it (not in the next expansion’s Raids)

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Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

I don’t really understand what you are saying, but traditionally in MMOs Raiders get the best rewards because Raiding requires the most dedication / time investment in the game.

Traditionally games where raiding is getting best rewards have their raids made available for a wide range of players. Also, these games are usually raid-centric, or at least their PvE endgame is.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It happened with hats in GW…eventually.

It also happened with Ascended Rings in GW2
The newest content (Fractals) got the newest item tier (Ascended Rings)
Now the newest content (Raids) gets the newest items (Legendary Armor)

The main difference is that Rings are easy to make, armor took them a year or two, so the next Legendary armor (from other type of content) will probably take a couple more years. If it was me, I’d put the second Legendary armor in the next expansion, as an extra incentive to buy it (not in the next expansion’s Raids)

You’re right. And even though I loved Fractals, people complained that was the only way to get ascended rings and even back then, though I had enough ascended rings to choke a herd of wild horses, I agreed with those people.

This isn’t about me not getting something I want specifically even though I’m absolutely certain people are seeing it that way. I have ALWAYS advocated for multiple paths to rewards. This isn’t new or different from me.

But raids have the highest buy in of any area of this game. They require more commitment than getting starting in Fractals or running dungeons or even WvW, where you can just follow a random tag and make progress.

I also didn’t like the changes made to the gift of battle for the same reason. Before, achievement hunters could work towards badges of honor without engaging in WvW. They still can but you can no longer buy a gift of battle with badges and that change, I believe, was bad for the game.

It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

I’ve played the game since LS1, quit a month after HoT released, and now I started playing again, and the more I played the more I realized how changed the game is now.
And by changed I don’t mean content, features or mechanics being shifted around or added, but the core of what GW2 used to be seems lost.

I came to GW2 after years of hardcore raiding in WoW, it was something new and different, and altho it wasn’t the “WoW killer” everyone expected it to be, it was fresh and interesting enough to be unique and have its own place in the crowded MMO world.
Everything was focused on cooperation, I was literally shocked by how nice the community was ingame compared to WoW, the content was designed for large numbers of players, etc…

Now, I don’t know anymore, it just feels like all those things are just there in the background, with GW2 now focusing on raids, and the community shifted massively with this change. That old content is still there ofc, but it’s just that, old content, that…it’s there.

- The amount of salt, elitism and player base split makes this game no different than any other MMO now, especially with meters being introduced to the game. Players will always choose to be first in a numbers competition over helping someone else. It’s the nature of competitive gameplay.
- You also now have mandatory holy trinity as well if you want to succeed in top tier content. Not needed for open world content, but like I said that content it’s either old or not really relevant. You don’t really need a holy trinity if you do old content in WoW either for example, or for mindlessly killing horses to skin them for leather.
- You don’t have any gear treadmill, but you now have the mastery treadmill if you want to succeed in end content, it’s like potayto/potahto, still a treadmill that will get obsolete eventually. Tell me how I can use the Itzel mastery in LS3 please, or the Exalted one, or the Nuhoch. Doubt they will be useful in any new content ever again. But you needed to get them because Anet gated some content behind those masteries, so they weren’t really optional. It’s the same as farming for a tier of gear that will get obsolete when the new fancy one appears, e.g. the new LS3 mastery track.
—-———————————————————


TLDR; What makes GW2 different than any other generic MMO right now?

How would you convince a WoW player for example to come and play GW2 today? Because I can’t think of anything else but “well it’s like WoW, but different…it has asuras instead of gnomes, and you don’t need 100 addons to be able to get into a raid…yet”

Didn’t expect this to have 500 posts!

Anyway, I get what you are saying.

Gw2 at the beginning was really interesting with so many events, I still remember the epic opening event for Southsun Cove, it is the first and also the last for guild wars 2. Living story 1 was interesting because there were a lot of maps changing events though many complained that it wasn’t persistent which I do agree to a certain extend but it is indeed more epic than the other living stories.

I do agree that HOT have bought tons of changes to PvE though many of those don’t interests me. When they expanded FOTM to level 100, to me, it was like I have to grind another 50 levels again? Grind more sets again? So troublesome.

Then for raid, to me, I don’t get that epic feelings. I favor 20-men raid than a 10-men raid because 20-men just feels more epic. Also, I think 20-men is more reasonable number for a guild while a 10-men is like a clique. The main issue is just the epic feelings is not there.

I don’t feel as excited any more for PvE contents after HOT. In fact, I have cut down my PvE activities so much. Just for your info, I have 28k AP and PvE was really interesting so I keep doing the APs but for HOT, other than the stories, a lot of things are just meh.

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Posted by: OniGiri.9461

OniGiri.9461

It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.

What do you base this on?
If you want a certain reward you have to do a certain content. Its been like this launch.
And its like this in every other video game.

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Posted by: Fatalyz.7168

Fatalyz.7168

It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.

It could also be a reward geared towards people that enjoyed multiple aspects of the game. Just because you can get it by doing something you don’t like, doesn’t mean that it was meant as “encouragement” to do something you don’t like. Could very well be that gated rewards that was always there. The problem was that the gates never worked like they were intended to. IMO, what we are seeing now, is the attempt to get the game back to where they wanted it at launch.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

At release, and for a good time after, participation was required to get the gift. Unless, of course, you just farmed the jumping puzzles.

I got a Gift of Battle bought from medals mostly from Achievement Chests,

Which happened a good time after release (around July 2013).

But there was that blissful period in between, 2013-2016, most of the game’s life, where Gift of Battle was available for badges. There were some moving goalposts, settled at Rank 14, which was easy to get.

Now? Eh, I have no desire to go through that track the first time, let alone the 4+ times I’ll need for the legendaries I’m targeting. 40 track levels is a long time to spend bored.

Doesn’t matter as my entire point was that the game started off with requiring WvW in order to get badges. The game “changed its identity” when it included them with achievements chests and then went back to its “original identity” with the reward track.

That’s your argument for “identity”?

Oh noes, GW2 added QoL improvements again! It’s even more convenient! GAME CHANGING FOREVERS!

Sorry, but no.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.

What do you base this on?
If you want a certain reward you have to do a certain content. Its been like this launch.
And its like this in every other video game.

It’s an opinion based on long observation and it’s completely logical. You don’t have to agree with it, but it doesn’t make that opinion wrong.

I’m not even sure what there is to discuss. If you put only the best rewards behind certain content and people don’t like it, they’ll be unhappy. I can’t even imagine anyone trying to argue against that point.

So either more people like raids than I think (which I doubt is true), or people are doing raids for rewards. The less they like raiding the less happy they’re going to be. I’ve seen it in other games and now I’m seeing it here.

Again you don’t have to agree. But that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

It’s easy to believe because you like raids that everyone doing them likes them as much as you. But I’ve often found people play stuff they don’t like to get rewards, burn out on it and leave games.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: OniGiri.9461

OniGiri.9461

It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.

What do you base this on?
If you want a certain reward you have to do a certain content. Its been like this launch.
And its like this in every other video game.

It’s an opinion based on long observation and it’s completely logical. You don’t have to agree with it, but it doesn’t make that opinion wrong.

I’m not even sure what there is to discuss. If you put only the best rewards behind certain content and people don’t like it, they’ll be unhappy. I can’t even imagine anyone trying to argue against that point.

So either more people like raids than I think (which I doubt is true), or people are doing raids for rewards. The less they like raiding the less happy they’re going to be. I’ve seen it in other games and now I’m seeing it here.

Again you don’t have to agree. But that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

It’s easy to believe because you like raids that everyone doing them likes them as much as you. But I’ve often found people play stuff they don’t like to get rewards, burn out on it and leave games.

Lets look at some events in the past:

Dungeons on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps on launch were grindy and super hard – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation was extremly random or super expensive

Dungeons were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps were nerfed and the gold ventiles were opened – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation is not random anymore (and some are cheaper then before) – ppl were unhappy.

Pleasing everyone is impossible. Sure its good to listen to feedback
that the playerbase gives you. But if someone creates a product the primary focus is on the creators vision and wishes.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

You know, I’ve read many times on this forum players that absolutely refuse to enter WvW because of its PvP aspect. It doesn’t matter if it is easy or difficult, scary or pleasant, boring or exciting to others; it’s just a game mode they can not and will not participate in. Now, for these players, Mistforged Hero’s Weapons are and have been locked away behind content, and are unavailable…because those players choose to abstain from WvW and there is no other way to obtain these weapons (at this time).

Who knows? Maybe, some day, there will be another way to obtain these weapons; maybe some day there will (an)other way(s) to obtain any kind of Legendary, or any and all items in the game. It happened with hats in GW…eventually.

Some people (maybe even most people) don’t have that kind of patience for a game.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

In the beginning gw2 was advertised with no holy trinity. Every class had a way of healing so never a need for a dedicated healer. Play your way. Which is what drew me to the game to begin with.
Now we have a trinity, Anet even further increased the need for a dedicated healer in certain content by lowering the base healing of all classes across the board. Added raiding and after saying it wasn’t meant for everyone and nobody would be forced to play it added legendary armor exclusive to raids.
So yes I would say the game has lost its identity.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

At release, and for a good time after, participation was required to get the gift. Unless, of course, you just farmed the jumping puzzles.

I got a Gift of Battle bought from medals mostly from Achievement Chests,

Which happened a good time after release (around July 2013).

But there was that blissful period in between, 2013-2016, most of the game’s life, where Gift of Battle was available for badges. There were some moving goalposts, settled at Rank 14, which was easy to get.

Now? Eh, I have no desire to go through that track the first time, let alone the 4+ times I’ll need for the legendaries I’m targeting. 40 track levels is a long time to spend bored.

Doesn’t matter as my entire point was that the game started off with requiring WvW in order to get badges. The game “changed its identity” when it included them with achievements chests and then went back to its “original identity” with the reward track.

That’s your argument for “identity”?

Oh noes, GW2 added QoL improvements again! It’s even more convenient! GAME CHANGING FOREVERS!

Sorry, but no.

That wasn’t a QoL improvement. Sorry but no.

I’m pretty sure that someone would argue that if the game had started out with badges coming from achievement chests, and then subsequently the gift could only be acquired from a reward track years later, people would say that the game’s identity changed. Kitten, they’re doing that right now despite how the game started out like.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

In the beginning gw2 was advertised with no holy trinity. Every class had a way of healing so never a need for a dedicated healer. Play your way. Which is what drew me to the game to begin with.
Now we have a trinity, Anet even further increased the need for a dedicated healer in certain content by lowering the base healing of all classes across the board. Added raiding and after saying it wasn’t meant for everyone and nobody would be forced to play it added legendary armor exclusive to raids.
So yes I would say the game has lost its identity.

Healer is only ever needed in raids. It’s not anywhere else in the game. For those that don’t raid, they can play the game as they wish without needing to use the trinity.

Did GW2 lose its identity?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.

What do you base this on?
If you want a certain reward you have to do a certain content. Its been like this launch.
And its like this in every other video game.

It’s an opinion based on long observation and it’s completely logical. You don’t have to agree with it, but it doesn’t make that opinion wrong.

I’m not even sure what there is to discuss. If you put only the best rewards behind certain content and people don’t like it, they’ll be unhappy. I can’t even imagine anyone trying to argue against that point.

So either more people like raids than I think (which I doubt is true), or people are doing raids for rewards. The less they like raiding the less happy they’re going to be. I’ve seen it in other games and now I’m seeing it here.

Again you don’t have to agree. But that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

It’s easy to believe because you like raids that everyone doing them likes them as much as you. But I’ve often found people play stuff they don’t like to get rewards, burn out on it and leave games.

Lets look at some events in the past:

Dungeons on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps on launch were grindy and super hard – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation was extremly random or super expensive

Dungeons were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps were nerfed and the gold ventiles were opened – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation is not random anymore (and some are cheaper then before) – ppl were unhappy.

Pleasing everyone is impossible. Sure its good to listen to feedback
that the playerbase gives you. But if someone creates a product the primary focus is on the creators vision and wishes.

I’m not really sure of your point here. I mean what you say is obviously true, That said, I’m not sure that what I’m saying is reaching you.

It is my belief, and it’s been supported in what we know from other games, that only a small percentage of the community raid. A small percentage being some sort of minority. Surely you don’t believe most players raid or consider themselves raiders.

Resources are spent on this minority, not just to make raids, but to make rewards. There are definitely some people unhappy with the number of armor sets you can earn in game for example. If Anet takes time to make 3 new sets of armor, just for raiders, then people who don’t raid, who in my opinion are the majority, have the right to say something about it.

That’s what I’m doing. Saying something about it. You say people complain about everything. People didn’t complain nearly as much about dungeons when they were making profit doing them. I mean sure, some people complained but I think most of us can tell the difference between random well thought out complaints and people just complaining to complain.

I believe this is bad for the game because I believe more people will be annoyed by it than excited by it. Still just my opinion.

Which doesn’t mean what I’m saying isn’t correct. We’ll never really know.

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

The one PVE game mode that changed that was raids. And I truly believe that, because of the loose development style I talk about above, they didn’t stop to think about how this kind of content model would change the game.

I realize a lot of people don’t see it – but I firmly believe that is because they approach the game differently than those who do. They base their in game friendships/guilds/etc on skill at the game and a willingness to sacrifice form for function – and that is fine. For those people, raids are a good fit.

It isnt, however, how many formed their guilds/communities in the first years of the game. For us, raids represent a break from the core purpose of the game in PVE – to offer a fun place for us all to play together. And while some can argue that the rest of the game hasnt changed, I think that argument is shortsighted – raids in their current form have had a real impact on how many approach the game – through the “stepford wife” syndrome created by meta gameplay, a feeling of being left out of part of the story/experience/etc, through false airs of superiority emerging across both game chat and various forums, and so on.

That is the identity I feel has changed. And, while that is a personal definition of the term, I think it is one many share with me.

For us, the game is changing in a very negative way – but one that they could rectify very easily. How we identify (and identify with) the game is changing – and not for the better.

I think I understand what you are saying.

Raid is inherently exclusive and not inclusive. Raid doesn’t sit well with guilds that focus on community as community consist of everybody regardless good or bad that is why we have raid guilds. Raid and community just don’t go well with one another.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

In the beginning gw2 was advertised with no holy trinity. Every class had a way of healing so never a need for a dedicated healer. Play your way. Which is what drew me to the game to begin with.
Now we have a trinity, Anet even further increased the need for a dedicated healer in certain content by lowering the base healing of all classes across the board. Added raiding and after saying it wasn’t meant for everyone and nobody would be forced to play it added legendary armor exclusive to raids.
So yes I would say the game has lost its identity.

Healer is only ever needed in raids. It’s not anywhere else in the game. For those that don’t raid, they can play the game as they wish without needing to use the trinity.

Question for you. Do you believe that if raid hadn’t be introduced to the game, the druid elite spec would have been as it is? Because I don’t. I think that the raids influenced not just balance, but the actual creation of one elite spec.

Why make a healing elite spec in a game where healing is largely not used? I’d have preferred something different, personally for my ranger main.

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Posted by: OniGiri.9461

OniGiri.9461

It’s an opinion based on long observation and it’s completely logical. You don’t have to agree with it, but it doesn’t make that opinion wrong.

I’m not even sure what there is to discuss. If you put only the best rewards behind certain content and people don’t like it, they’ll be unhappy. I can’t even imagine anyone trying to argue against that point.

So either more people like raids than I think (which I doubt is true), or people are doing raids for rewards. The less they like raiding the less happy they’re going to be. I’ve seen it in other games and now I’m seeing it here.

Again you don’t have to agree. But that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

It’s easy to believe because you like raids that everyone doing them likes them as much as you. But I’ve often found people play stuff they don’t like to get rewards, burn out on it and leave games.

Lets look at some events in the past:

Dungeons on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps on launch were grindy and super hard – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation was extremly random or super expensive

Dungeons were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps were nerfed and the gold ventiles were opened – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation is not random anymore (and some are cheaper then before) – ppl were unhappy.

Pleasing everyone is impossible. Sure its good to listen to feedback
that the playerbase gives you. But if someone creates a product the primary focus is on the creators vision and wishes.

I’m not really sure of your point here. I mean what you say is obviously true, That said, I’m not sure that what I’m saying is reaching you.

It is my belief, and it’s been supported in what we know from other games, that only a small percentage of the community raid. A small percentage being some sort of minority. Surely you don’t believe most players raid or consider themselves raiders.

Resources are spent on this minority, not just to make raids, but to make rewards. There are definitely some people unhappy with the number of armor sets you can earn in game for example. If Anet takes time to make 3 new sets of armor, just for raiders, then people who don’t raid, who in my opinion are the majority, have the right to say something about it.

That’s what I’m doing. Saying something about it. You say people complain about everything. People didn’t complain nearly as much about dungeons when they were making profit doing them. I mean sure, some people complained but I think most of us can tell the difference between random well thought out complaints and people just complaining to complain.

I believe this is bad for the game because I believe more people will be annoyed by it than excited by it. Still just my opinion.

Which doesn’t mean what I’m saying isn’t correct. We’ll never really know.

I believe over time more and more people will go into raiding. You are right in saying most players will not be raiding.
Just like most players will not be pvp-ing.
And most players will not be wvw-ing.
And most players will not be fractal frequenters.
And most players will not be puzzle jumpers.

Every content that goes beyond farming, open world exploring and world bosses will only be done by a small subset of the complete playerbase. Why not invest in all these game modes?

I think the players that favor pve have the least ground to complain about resources not spent on their game mode. Its been stated over and over by now how many resources actually go into raids vs. the rest of pve. Why do you want to keep this myth of “waisted resources” alive?