Guild Wars 2

Rednik.3809:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t follow that line of reasoning at all.

The value of adding raids to the game comes from offering a type of challenge that can’t be achieved in the rest of the game. The rest of the game needs to appeal to a wide cross-section of players; raids only need to appeal to one subset.

Fractals are already the content that can be done with whatever builds people want to bring. Raids are designed to require more attention (at least, initially). That’s fundamental to the brand.

It’s a tiny fraction of the game, a tiny fraction of the dev resources. I simply don’t see that there’s an issue that requires ANet to create an easier version.

That could be true if raids were introduced as some kind of side content. Problem is, they are introduced and promoted as an ultimate PvE endgame.
Dungeons are abandoned. Fractals are no more “GW2-style ultimate PvE endgame” as Anet promised when they abandoned dungeons, but instead “stepping stones to raid” now. Lore? Anet sees no problem with introducing lore story lines in raids now. Content? Raids got 4 wings, fractals got 2 fractals, and dungeons got… well, you know. Rewards? Yay, they added a second set of fractal skins, which is retextured first one, and one legendary backpack, against 3 full sets of legendary armor, White Mantle weaponry and other unique skins.
Even almost all PvE balance changes are being made based on raid feedback now.
A lot of people have a feeling that Anet is promoting raids as their new and only PvE endgame now. That’s why raid threads are so numerous, and so many people are concerned. It doesn’t looks like side activity.

You have to look at it in context.

Raids and the legendary armor were announced as part of the expansion.
Legendary armor is still not available.
So they are actually late in delivering stuff that we already paid for with the expansion.

The primary focus is on the Living Story and the next expansion at the moment. Raids are only a five man team.

With posts like yours you only fuel the wrong perception that all the devs are doing nothing but raid tweaking all day. But maybe thats what you want…

OniGiri.9461:

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

This is not entirely correct. You cannot buy Ascended gear on TP, you cannot buy some stuff related to Legendary weapon crafting on TP, you cannot buy dungeons related stuff on TP, you cannot buy some crafted exotic (Sinister, Celestial, Trailblaze, Viper etc.) gear on TP and much more…

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

Rednik.3809:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t follow that line of reasoning at all.

The value of adding raids to the game comes from offering a type of challenge that can’t be achieved in the rest of the game. The rest of the game needs to appeal to a wide cross-section of players; raids only need to appeal to one subset.

Fractals are already the content that can be done with whatever builds people want to bring. Raids are designed to require more attention (at least, initially). That’s fundamental to the brand.

It’s a tiny fraction of the game, a tiny fraction of the dev resources. I simply don’t see that there’s an issue that requires ANet to create an easier version.

That could be true if raids were introduced as some kind of side content. Problem is, they are introduced and promoted as an ultimate PvE endgame.
Dungeons are abandoned. Fractals are no more “GW2-style ultimate PvE endgame” as Anet promised when they abandoned dungeons, but instead “stepping stones to raid” now. Lore? Anet sees no problem with introducing lore story lines in raids now. Content? Raids got 4 wings, fractals got 2 fractals, and dungeons got… well, you know. Rewards? Yay, they added a second set of fractal skins, which is retextured first one, and one legendary backpack, against 3 full sets of legendary armor, White Mantle weaponry and other unique skins.
Even almost all PvE balance changes are being made based on raid feedback now.
A lot of people have a feeling that Anet is promoting raids as their new and only PvE endgame now. That’s why raid threads are so numerous, and so many people are concerned. It doesn’t looks like side activity.

They are side content. Just because they’re pinnacle of challenging endgame content does not mean they’re side content. You do not have to participate in raids to enjoy other areas of the game.

Just because fractals can be seen as stepping stones to raids, this doesn’t diminish what fractals offer to players. There are many things in games that are stepping stones to other things within the games. It’s a sense of progression.

There’s nothing wrong with introducing lore storylines in raids. Raids wouldn’t make that much sense without some story to tie everything together. People still give Anet flak for no stories about the elite specializations or Revenant. Do you think they wouldn’t complain about the same thing if raids were just nothing but a bunch of random encounters?

Yes, raids got 4 wings. We also got four living story episodes that each contained a map. So what’s your point? Raids are still a very small part of the game meant for those that wanted a challenge. Yes, raids have unique rewards but what areas of the game don’t?

No, PvE balances are not all based on raids. Some things will be more prone to need to be changed because of how they are in raids but are not a large issue in the rest of the game. It’s really no different than how some things were changed because of their impact in fractals but weren’t a large issue in open world PvE.

Raid threads are not really all that more numerous. I’ve actually seen more mounts threads but that doesn’t mean the game needs mounts. There are those that want to experience the story which you can for the most part in cleared instances. Cleared instance isn’t enough because they consider fighting the bosses as part of the experience but they want it brought down to their level. This would also be a waste of resources as players would likely only play the story mode once like for dungeons. Then there are those that want an easy mode because they want the loots but without having to put in the effort to earn them.

Soeki.9643:

I’m not sure how many people here played Elder Scrolls Online and even had the pleasure to do trials (raids) there. In the beginning just like here they were hard content for organized groups. Only a few did them. Then later on they redesigned the system. Trials had a normal and veteran mode (+ hardmode on either for extra challenge). Normal mode opened the trials up for pugs, and they were totally doable. Those who wanted to lore got it. Loot was decent too, the only difference was that you could get jewelry on a higher tier level than on normal mode (think like exotic for normal, ascended for veteran but tbh the difference was truly minimal). People can get the same sets, and those who want the challenge can do veteran mode. It truly worked well.

As for GW2, I believe this is a direction they could take. It is the best of both worlds, it caters to the casual and the veteran/hardcore raiders as well. I believe getting legendary armor should be faster on “veteran” mode, but having it available on “normal” mode too would please most players (I assume).

looks like the 3 or 4 primary people in this thread talked around/past you, but i think your comment was valuable and worth the effort.

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Sometimes things that are, “changed because of raids or PvP,” would have been changed whether or not those game modes existed, just not as soon.

Gameplay or balance flaws may be discovered sooner in game modes where there is more min maxing going on. This does not mean that those balance issues dont affect open world PvE, only that they came to light sooner in the crucible of higher performance builds often seen in instanced or competitive content.

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Perhaps because GW2 was advertised as having an identity grounded in GW1.

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Perhaps because GW2 was advertised as having an identity grounded in GW1.

That would still mean gw2 has its own identity. Which can’t be lost by not being exactly like gw1. right?

OniGiri.9461:

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Perhaps because GW2 was advertised as having an identity grounded in GW1.

That would still mean gw2 has its own identity. Which can’t be lost by not being exactly like gw1. right?

I never said otherwise.

You asked why GW1 was referenced in this thread. I pointed out that it was because GW1 was part of GW2’s identity.

I guess I could turn your question around:

How could GW1 not be an important point of reference in a discussion about this game’s identity if GW2 was marketed as having everything that was loved about GW1 in it?

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Perhaps because GW2 was advertised as having an identity grounded in GW1.

That would still mean gw2 has its own identity. Which can’t be lost by not being exactly like gw1. right?

I never said otherwise.

You asked why GW1 was referenced in this thread. I pointed out that it was because GW1 was part of GW2’s identity.

I guess I could turn your question around:

How could GW1 not be an important point of reference in a discussion about this game’s identity if GW2 was marketed as having everything that was loved about GW1 in it?

Well allright lets say GW1 was or should have been intregal in GW2.

It didn’t seem to hurt the franchise or the enjoyment up until raids where introduced.
The list of things that weren’t possible before was just extended by one point and NOW Gw2 has lost its identity? That sounds really bogus.

OniGiri.9461:

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Perhaps because GW2 was advertised as having an identity grounded in GW1.

That would still mean gw2 has its own identity. Which can’t be lost by not being exactly like gw1. right?

I never said otherwise.

You asked why GW1 was referenced in this thread. I pointed out that it was because GW1 was part of GW2’s identity.

I guess I could turn your question around:

How could GW1 not be an important point of reference in a discussion about this game’s identity if GW2 was marketed as having everything that was loved about GW1 in it?

Well allright lets say GW1 was or should have been intregal in GW2.

It didn’t seem to hurt the franchise or the enjoyment up until raids where introduced.
The list of things that weren’t possible before was just extended by one point and NOW Gw2 has lost its identity? That sounds really bogus.

And I have posted in this thread, multiple times, that I disagree with the OP regarding the loss of GW2’s identity.

Part of GW2’s identity, to me, is its failure to follow through on its promise. Its adeherence to important, to me, GW1 design principles. That doesn’t make it a bad game (I still play it). In fact the addition of raids with such a strong, but not absolute, dependence on gear is completely in line with GW2’s identity as a game that strays from the direction set by GW1.

VaLee.5102:

TLDR; What makes GW2 different than any other generic MMO right now?

How would you convince a WoW player for example to come and play GW2 today? Because I can’t think of anything else but “well it’s like WoW, but different…it has asuras instead of gnomes, and you don’t need 100 addons to be able to get into a raid…yet”

I never played WoW, never cared for WoW.
I came from Korean grind fests, Japanese Lobby games, and a long line of failed/canned western Superhero and Horror MMOs. With those games everything came to a crashing halt at end game. You NEEDED a guild, which inevitably lead to scheduling raid dates, having to deal with other peoples personal drama and so on. You wound up spending all your time and effort to get prepared for the hope that one day your lucky number was drawn and you would get a piece of loot that was going to be obsolete when the next update came. If you missed your chance you did it all again to the point of tedium. Months and even years of my time were dedicated to a ton of drama and stress, all in efforts to keep my characters up to date. I just wanted to play the darn game, but those games became my job away from my job.

GW2 is a different beast. It offers me the experience of going off on my own to explore without needing a party to go with me. I always enjoy meeting new people just by showing up to a monster icon or event icon, not having to sit in a town and shout for 3 hours to get a party to do something. I can obtain all of my gear fairly easily and while there is some (small by my definition) grind I don’t have the dread that my gear will be out of date in a few months. For as much as people complain about Elite grinding, for me its a cake walk. I sit down for a few hours here and there and am able to knock out a 10th to a quarter of a wheel. That is super casual for me.

If I get bored of one game mode I can play another, there is always something to do. There has been no other game that has given me what I have been looking for in regars to PvP. I enjoy WvW as well, but understand a bit where the old timers are coming from that it needs some work or new content. PvE LFG is no where annoying as other games I have played. I haven’t once been unable to complete a dungeon because it was abandoned by players (or devs.) GW2 has delivered what it advertised for me, I pay one time and can play hours of content hassle free. I can play Fashion Wars without having to jump through a crap ton of hoops. I can log in, set a goal, get that goal done and log for the night and not feel like everyone is leaving me behind.

Sure I have run into a handful of elitist jerks, but they are in every game. I can honestly say in GW2 I have never had to PUT UP WITH and STOMACH those elitist jerks, I have never NEEDED them to complete any content, and that feels good.

That’s my not-so-elevator pitch. I came into this game with very low expectations, and pleasantly had them all exceeded.

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Ashen.2907:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

If you played Guild Wars 1 since the its launch until now you know what is unique to GW frenchise and its identity:

- The skill bar with only 8 skills that you can change. Both GW1 and GW2 have it.
- You can change traits any time there is no such thing as skill reset npc. In GW1 the traits are the attribute points.
- No Gear Trendmill, once you get the best gear you got it forever even if you come back after 2 expansions.
- All kind of content, easy and very hard content, but not all content have different difficulty options.

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

If they were keeping true to the franchise identity you’d be able to buy the rewards for in game gold from other players, like tormented weapons. I mean you didn’t really have to farm ectos to get chaos gloves. You could farm feathers and buy them. Guild Wars 1 didn’t alienate casual players by making most in game rewards, at least as far as skins go, unavailable. Everyone could just tick away at something and eventually buy a voltaic spear, a celestial compass, a frog scepter, a bonecage scythe.

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

The only thing you cant buy from tp are game mode related things.
You can’t buy pvp exclusive stuff
You can’t buy fractal exclusive stuff
You can’t buy wvw exclusive stuff (if there is something like that)
You can’t by raid excluse stuff
And you can’t buy the HoT legendary weapons
Thats it.

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Perhaps because GW2 was advertised as having an identity grounded in GW1.

That would still mean gw2 has its own identity. Which can’t be lost by not being exactly like gw1. right?

I never said otherwise.

You asked why GW1 was referenced in this thread. I pointed out that it was because GW1 was part of GW2’s identity.

I guess I could turn your question around:

How could GW1 not be an important point of reference in a discussion about this game’s identity if GW2 was marketed as having everything that was loved about GW1 in it?

Well allright lets say GW1 was or should have been intregal in GW2.

It didn’t seem to hurt the franchise or the enjoyment up until raids where introduced.
The list of things that weren’t possible before was just extended by one point and NOW Gw2 has lost its identity? That sounds really bogus.

And I have posted in this thread, multiple times, that I disagree with the OP regarding the loss of GW2’s identity.

Part of GW2’s identity, to me, is its failure to follow through on its promise. Its adeherence to important, to me, GW1 design principles. That doesn’t make it a bad game (I still play it). In fact the addition of raids with such a strong, but not absolute, dependence on gear is completely in line with GW2’s identity as a game that strays from the direction set by GW1.

Sorry i didn’t want to imply that you were in line with OPs statement. My doubt is more behind Vayne.8563 real problem with the “identity” of the game since it sounds more like another “raid-hate-tirade”.

OniGiri.9461:

Sorry i didn’t want to imply that you were in line with OPs statement. My doubt is more behind Vayne.8563 real problem with the “identity” of the game since it sounds more like another “raid-hate-tirade”.

No worries.

I tend to think of MMO’s as somewhat open ended. In general, no absolutes here, adding to the game, attempting to provide more for people to do, attempting to please more people, doesn’t impact the game’s “identity.” Otherwise no game could ever grow without compromising its identity.

Now, if the game had switched over to a model where raids were the only ongoing development…or if all new content were hard gated behind a new gear tier…or something similarly drastic…I might agree with the complaint about lost identity. But complaining that the entire game has lost its identity because some small minority of new content is aimed at someone other than myself would be a bit off in my opinion…particularly as the devs stated before launch that they intended for GW2 to have raid-like content. They intended explorable dungeons to fit that bill, and were obviously disappointed when it did not work out that way…

In some ways the addition of raids is an attempt on ANets part to return to the original intended identity for the game.

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OnizukaBR.8537:

One funny thing about this post.
The people that are saying that GW2 lost its identity are asking for things like LFR from WoW, which means they want GW2 to copy another game, such Hypocrisy.

snip

So yeah GW2 is keeping true to the frenchise ideology. But the moment they implement such things like LFR is the moment GW gave up to its core philosophy.

snip

If this was truly the successor to Guild Wars 1 it wouldn’t lock out the casual players from those rewards. It worked in Guild Wars 1, and people are such champions of that game, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here.

snip

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Because part of Guild Wars 2’s identity comes from Guild Wars 1. That is to say, there are similarities between the game. For example, most MMOs allow you to use all your skills, and have them all on your skill bar at one time. Guild Wars 1 and 2 both make you choose. Guild Wars 1 didn’t raise the level cap and didn’t bring out new tiers of gear. Neither did Guild Wars 2.

And Guild Wars 1 didn’t make you go through the process of getting really hard to get stuff if you didn’t want to because you could buy it and when Guild Wars 2 launched, you could buy legendary weapons…and now you can’t. Therefore there’s an identity shift.

There are other people in this thread who brought up Guild Wars 1 as an example and said, now, finally with the advent of challenging content, this game is more like Guild Wars 1. I was pointing out one major discrepancy with that theory.

And I didn’t say you have to be hardcore to achieve every or even most achievements in this game. But I did say there’s been a shift in what you need to accomplish stuff. I mean the major rewards we used to get from Wintersday never included shoulders which would required 10,000 drinks. That’s beyond a lot of casual players too. However, you’re misrepresenting what I’m saying.

I’m saying more and more, casual players are being left behind, and that isn’t just my opinion. You’re hearing it from more people than just me.

Most people wouldn’t consider me a casual player. I have over 31k achievement points. I’ve beaten every dungeon and I’ve beaten the highest level fractals. My personal Fractal reward level is 90. I’ve made 12 legendary weapons.

But I run a guild full of casual people and I watch them and I listen to what they say.

The fact is, most of my guild isn’t interested in getting together with a group to do organized 9 man content, because most of my guild doesn’t play that kind of content PERIOD. It’s not casual. The approach to raids isn’t casual.

Most of my guild doesn’t even know what a meta is. They play what they want. Most of my guild doesn’t look up builds on meta battle. Because they spend most of their time in the open world.

If I weren’t in the guild I’m not sure how many would have left the game because of HOT but I showed them how to get around and how to deal with various enemies.

But Dragon Stand is challenging content to our guild. We don’t run Triple Trouble. It’s not our style of content.

Can everyone raid? Maybe. Can everyone eat spicy food. Sure. Everyone can eat that. But they don’t enjoy it.

And as they don’t enjoy it, because this is a game that they purchased, and that game has CHANGED, they feel disenfranchised. There are enough people even in this thread who believe the game has changed identity and I’m not even one of them. But I see where those people are coming from.

You may not think going from being able to buy legendaries to not being able to buy them isn’t a change. But it is, in fact a change. The more specific hoops we’re required to jump through the get the stuff we want/need, the more the game has changed.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I’m beginning to think that the game’s identity has changed.

Vayne.8563:

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I’m beginning to think that the game’s identity has changed.

Except when the game launched, there were similar complaints about some content being too difficult. Some people complained about Orr (and like HoT, it was tweaked down); many more complained about dungeons and specifically about not being able to get into a group if they weren’t running the meta (at the time, full zerk, and, incidentally, eles weren’t welcome for a long time).

Regardless, the vast majority of the game doesn’t require knowing the meta. Like many games (including single player), zones get progressively more challenging, with a few leaps in difficulty, from region to region.

Before anyone can say that the game’s identity has changed, they have to establish what that identity was originally. It’s also important to take into account that the players have changed: at launch, there weren’t any veterans, we had no idea that eles were OP’d, hardly anyone was in Orr, and a big subset of the population thought dungeons were too challenging.

Mostly, it’s fair to say things like, “I used to love this game; now I just like it” or “this game used to introduce lots of content that was new & interesting to me; now it doesn’t.” Trying to establish a game’s identity is a trickier proposition & I doubt any of us are in a position to do so (even the folks at ANet whose job it is to establish the game’s identity so that it can be hyped).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I’m beginning to think that the game’s identity has changed.

Except when the game launched, there were similar complaints about some content being too difficult. Some people complained about Orr (and like HoT, it was tweaked down); many more complained about dungeons and specifically about not being able to get into a group if they weren’t running the meta (at the time, full zerk, and, incidentally, eles weren’t welcome for a long time).

Regardless, the vast majority of the game doesn’t require knowing the meta. Like many games (including single player), zones get progressively more challenging, with a few leaps in difficulty, from region to region.

Before anyone can say that the game’s identity has changed, they have to establish what that identity was originally. It’s also important to take into account that the players have changed: at launch, there weren’t any veterans, we had no idea that eles were OP’d, hardly anyone was in Orr, and a big subset of the population thought dungeons were too challenging.

Mostly, it’s fair to say things like, “I used to love this game; now I just like it” or “this game used to introduce lots of content that was new & interesting to me; now it doesn’t.” Trying to establish a game’s identity is a trickier proposition & I doubt any of us are in a position to do so (even the folks at ANet whose job it is to establish the game’s identity so that it can be hyped).

I think it’s fair to day the game doesn’t have, and never has had, an identity with a capital “I”. Of course, it had an identity to each person. And probably most people believe that is an identity in a capital “I”.

Objectively you’re right. But I’m not sure how much that really helps the conversation.

Ayrilana.1396:

They are side content. Just because they’re pinnacle of challenging endgame content does not mean they’re side content. You do not have to participate in raids to enjoy other areas of the game.

And this is one of most obvious examples how game is changed, from “everything is available to everyone, play how you want” to “meta or gtfo, you are not allowed to pick your way anymore, go away and play something else”. This gone so far that now we even have dps meters in game, and some people are already trying to push them further into non-raids too.

Ayrilana.1396:

Just because fractals can be seen as stepping stones to raids, this doesn’t diminish what fractals offer to players. There are many things in games that are stepping stones to other things within the games. It’s a sense of progression.

And yet these things are clearly getting less Anet attention despite being more popular and having wider audience.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes, raids got 4 wings. We also got four living story episodes that each contained a map. So what’s your point? Raids are still a very small part of the game meant for those that wanted a challenge. Yes, raids have unique rewards but what areas of the game don’t?

I’m talking about repeatable instanced content, which is something that keeping people interested and giving them stuff to do. Living story maps gives you only some gear farm after you finished initial story. Its not like people are happy when they see either lack of new content to do in 5ppl format, or brick wall surrounding raids. One of these things should be addressed, though it better be both of them.

Ayrilana.1396:

No, PvE balances are not all based on raids. Some things will be more prone to need to be changed because of how they are in raids but are not a large issue in the rest of the game. It’s really no different than how some things were changed because of their impact in fractals but weren’t a large issue in open world PvE.

Except its not. Even old infamous conjured weapons nerfs were made only after someone used them in sPvP tourney.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raid threads are not really all that more numerous. I’ve actually seen more mounts threads but that doesn’t mean the game needs mounts. There are those that want to experience the story which you can for the most part in cleared instances. Cleared instance isn’t enough because they consider fighting the bosses as part of the experience but they want it brought down to their level. This would also be a waste of resources as players would likely only play the story mode once like for dungeons. Then there are those that want an easy mode because they want the loots but without having to put in the effort to earn them.

Multiple difficulty modes for group content is universal approach for modern game developing, and it works, and that’s why it being requested. “But you should just work harder”, “but you just want rewards for free”, “but its pointless and nobody going to play them” – these arguments are proven wrong in many games already, on tremendous auditory, including all top PvE games. Why Anet is ignoring that experience and pushing 10 years old and outdated raid model is beyond me.

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

Vayne.8563:

OniGiri.9461:

snip

Everything else can be bought for gold or gems.

If there were no game mode exclusive stuff much fewer people would play that stuff
(just ask the pvp guys)

You are hiding behind the casual argument but thats nonsense. I am casual. I play how i want and when i want. Still i manage to work on everything i want in game.

In the beginning, you could buy legendary weapons, but you can’t buy the new ones. I’m not hiding behind anything. People are saying Guild Wars 1 had all this hard core stuff and I’m pointing out that Guild Wars 1 allowed you to buy all that hard core stuff.

Not sure what you think I’m hiding behind. What I’m saying is factual.

You are hiding behind the shallow argument that one has to be a (semi-)hardcore player to achiev everything in this game. Thats just false.
Also i don’t know why Guild Wars 1 is being referenced in a thread thats calles “Did Gw2 lose its identity”?

Because part of Guild Wars 2’s identity comes from Guild Wars 1. That is to say, there are similarities between the game. For example, most MMOs allow you to use all your skills, and have them all on your skill bar at one time. Guild Wars 1 and 2 both make you choose. Guild Wars 1 didn’t raise the level cap and didn’t bring out new tiers of gear. Neither did Guild Wars 2.

And Guild Wars 1 didn’t make you go through the process of getting really hard to get stuff if you didn’t want to because you could buy it and when Guild Wars 2 launched, you could buy legendary weapons…and now you can’t. Therefore there’s an identity shift.

There are other people in this thread who brought up Guild Wars 1 as an example and said, now, finally with the advent of challenging content, this game is more like Guild Wars 1. I was pointing out one major discrepancy with that theory.

And I didn’t say you have to be hardcore to achieve every or even most achievements in this game. But I did say there’s been a shift in what you need to accomplish stuff. I mean the major rewards we used to get from Wintersday never included shoulders which would required 10,000 drinks. That’s beyond a lot of casual players too. However, you’re misrepresenting what I’m saying.

I’m saying more and more, casual players are being left behind, and that isn’t just my opinion. You’re hearing it from more people than just me.

Most people wouldn’t consider me a casual player. I have over 31k achievement points. I’ve beaten every dungeon and I’ve beaten the highest level fractals. My personal Fractal reward level is 90. I’ve made 12 legendary weapons.

But I run a guild full of casual people and I watch them and I listen to what they say.

The fact is, most of my guild isn’t interested in getting together with a group to do organized 9 man content, because most of my guild doesn’t play that kind of content PERIOD. It’s not casual. The approach to raids isn’t casual.

Most of my guild doesn’t even know what a meta is. They play what they want. Most of my guild doesn’t look up builds on meta battle. Because they spend most of their time in the open world.

If I weren’t in the guild I’m not sure how many would have left the game because of HOT but I showed them how to get around and how to deal with various enemies.

But Dragon Stand is challenging content to our guild. We don’t run Triple Trouble. It’s not our style of content.

Can everyone raid? Maybe. Can everyone eat spicy food. Sure. Everyone can eat that. But they don’t enjoy it.

And as they don’t enjoy it, because this is a game that they purchased, and that game has CHANGED, they feel disenfranchised. There are enough people even in this thread who believe the game has changed identity and I’m not even one of them. But I see where those people are coming from.

You may not think going from being able to buy legendaries to not being able to buy them isn’t a change. But it is, in fact a change. The more specific hoops we’re required to jump through the get the stuff we want/need, the more the game has changed.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I’m beginning to think that the game’s identity has changed.

I can agree with you that the game has changed. But i can’t agree with you on the identity part. For me Guild Wars 2 was always about people helping out other people. So you helping your guild mates to manouver in the new maps and contents, helping them understand the new stuff is totally in line with this games identity.

New stuff gets introduced, no one know whats going on. Then someone or many someones figure it out and share their discoveries, strategies, builds and guides with the community. The community adepts, learns and grows by doing so. This is how this game was from the beginning.

@OniGirl

You’re missing my point here. The game hasn’t shifted identity to you because this is how you perceive the game’s identity. But the game doesn’t have an identity with a capitol “I”. You saw the game a certain way and it remains that way to you.

More and more people who are casual are seeing the game they saw slip away. Not just raids. Maybe not even mainly raids. I used the winter’s presence shoulder as an example. That is beyond many casual players. They see the people getting it and realize they can’t. Not in one year. Maybe not in two. They see the bat shoulders from halloween. They see timed events in HoT that are on a schedule. for which they have to use LFG to get on a map that can beat it. Those are all changes.

For you the game has changed in a way that hasn’t affected how you perceived it’s identity. For me, that’s mostly true as well.

But just as true, there are people who have stopped playing because the game’s identity has changed for them.

The bigger the shift the more people will be affected. HoT is my favorite content in the game, but I do believe the shift in focus affected a lot of people. To those people, the game has lost it’s identity even if it hasn’t from our point of view.

And there are even people who left when ascended were first introduced who thought the game had lost it’s identity even then.

The problem wasn’t just HoT. It was HoT followed by 9 months of only raids and PvP in a content drought that probably cost the game players. I don’t suspect that will happen again. I don’t think it should have happened in the first place, but hindsight is 20/20.

I’m guilty here of hyperbole, which I’ve often accused people of because I’ve seen casual people walk away from this game in my guild. It’s just getting too much for some of them. Too hard, or too much grind or too much “work”. So yeah, I went over the deep end in some of what I was saying. I don’t like seeing guildies I’ve played with for years walk away because they don’t feel they have time to play the game the way the game requires you to play it now.

They feel left behind and who am I to say they’re wrong?

Rednik.3809:

And this is one of most obvious examples how game is changed, from “everything is available to everyone, play how you want” to “meta or gtfo, you are not allowed to pick your way anymore, go away and play something else”. This gone so far that now we even have dps meters in game, and some people are already trying to push them further into non-raids too.

And yet these things are clearly getting less Anet attention despite being more popular and having wider audience.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes, raids got 4 wings. We also got four living story episodes that each contained a map. So what’s your point? Raids are still a very small part of the game meant for those that wanted a challenge. Yes, raids have unique rewards but what areas of the game don’t?

I’m talking about repeatable instanced content, which is something that keeping people interested and giving them stuff to do. Living story maps gives you only some gear farm after you finished initial story. Its not like people are happy when they see either lack of new content to do in 5ppl format, or brick wall surrounding raids. One of these things should be addressed, though it better be both of them.

Ayrilana.1396:

No, PvE balances are not all based on raids. Some things will be more prone to need to be changed because of how they are in raids but are not a large issue in the rest of the game. It’s really no different than how some things were changed because of their impact in fractals but weren’t a large issue in open world PvE.

Except its not. Even old infamous conjured weapons nerfs were made only after someone used them in sPvP tourney.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raid threads are not really all that more numerous. I’ve actually seen more mounts threads but that doesn’t mean the game needs mounts. There are those that want to experience the story which you can for the most part in cleared instances. Cleared instance isn’t enough because they consider fighting the bosses as part of the experience but they want it brought down to their level. This would also be a waste of resources as players would likely only play the story mode once like for dungeons. Then there are those that want an easy mode because they want the loots but without having to put in the effort to earn them.

Multiple difficulty modes for group content is universal approach for modern game developing, and it works, and that’s why it being requested. “But you should just work harder”, “but you just want rewards for free”, “but its pointless and nobody going to play them” – these arguments are proven wrong in many games already, on tremendous auditory, including all top PvE games. Why Anet is ignoring that experience and pushing 10 years old and outdated raid model is beyond me.

You can always pick your own way. It’s called creating your own group. It’s a bit hypocritical to complain about not having choices and want to impose a lack of choice in other players. It’s pretty much the same thing we all saw with those threads upset that a lot of dungeon groups preferred berserkers and some players then wanting the stat removed instead of just creating their own group.

Getting less attention? They added two two fractals and are currently working on a new one. They’re thinking of redoing jade maw. Fractals have had so much attention since they were released. Just because some of the attention that fractals got is being diverted to raids doesn’t mean that fractals is any less important to Anet.

The last I heard, you could repeat story instances. You don’t need to finish the living story to gear farm on those maps.

Balance changes are made based on all game modes. Some changes were made because there was an issue in one game mode that necessarily wasn’t as apparent in others. Anet has enough problems balancing for just the game itself. Do you really want them to balance for each game mode? Conjured weapons, I’m assuming from an Ele, was because of dungeons and fractals. Are you going to complain about those two game modes affecting players in open world PvE?

Face it. Raids were developed to be challenging content. There’s nothing challenging about giving it an easy mode so players can coast through it with less effort. The easier you make it, the easier it is for players to coast through it while avoid mechanics. Kind of the opposite effect of throwing more players at something to avoid the mechanics when you see in open world PvE.

Ayrilana.1396:

You can always pick your own way. It’s called creating your own group. It’s a bit hypocritical to complain about not having choices and want to impose a lack of choice in other players. It’s pretty much the same thing we all saw with those threads upset that a lot of dungeon groups preferred berserkers and some players then wanting the stat removed instead of just creating their own group.

Creating your own group will not work for inexperienced people. That’s why modern MMOs have multiple difficulty settings.

Ayrilana.1396:

Getting less attention? They added two two fractals and are currently working on a new one. They’re thinking of redoing jade maw. Fractals have had so much attention since they were released. Just because some of the attention that fractals got is being diverted to raids doesn’t mean that fractals is any less important to Anet.

Sorry, it’s not me who is responsible for creating game population and their interests. People are usually not happy when you are giving less attention to more popular instanced content and divert your resources to not so popular one.

Ayrilana.1396:

Balance changes are made based on all game modes. Some changes were made because there was an issue in one game mode that necessarily wasn’t as apparent in others. Anet has enough problems balancing for just the game itself. Do you really want them to balance for each game mode? Conjured weapons, I’m assuming from an Ele, was because of dungeons and fractals. Are you going to complain about those two game modes affecting players in open world PvE?

I’m just pointing out that Anet is playing favorites, again. You can find million excuses for this, but still this is a fact.

Ayrilana.1396:

Face it. Raids were developed to be challenging content. There’s nothing challenging about giving it an easy mode so players can coast through it with less effort. The easier you make it, the easier it is for players to coast through it while avoid mechanics. Kind of the opposite effect of throwing more players at something to avoid the mechanics when you see in open world PvE.

No one is trying to take challenging content from raiders, but they are still minority that getting a lot of content in content-starved game, and others want to either some decent way to join them via different difficulty levels (not for same loot, but for proper learning curve), or at least level of attention proportional to population.

WvW is still fun.

Haven’t tried dungeons since they were nerfed (unnerfed in the meantime?)

Raids don’t interest me in the least.

HoT content was meh.

Rednik.3809:

Ayrilana.1396:

You can always pick your own way. It’s called creating your own group. It’s a bit hypocritical to complain about not having choices and want to impose a lack of choice in other players. It’s pretty much the same thing we all saw with those threads upset that a lot of dungeon groups preferred berserkers and some players then wanting the stat removed instead of just creating their own group.

Creating your own group will not work for inexperienced people. That’s why modern MMOs have multiple difficulty settings.

Ayrilana.1396:

Getting less attention? They added two two fractals and are currently working on a new one. They’re thinking of redoing jade maw. Fractals have had so much attention since they were released. Just because some of the attention that fractals got is being diverted to raids doesn’t mean that fractals is any less important to Anet.

Sorry, it’s not me who is responsible for creating game population and their interests. People are usually not happy when you are giving less attention to more popular instanced content and divert your resources to not so popular one.

Ayrilana.1396:

Balance changes are made based on all game modes. Some changes were made because there was an issue in one game mode that necessarily wasn’t as apparent in others. Anet has enough problems balancing for just the game itself. Do you really want them to balance for each game mode? Conjured weapons, I’m assuming from an Ele, was because of dungeons and fractals. Are you going to complain about those two game modes affecting players in open world PvE?

I’m just pointing out that Anet is playing favorites, again. You can find million excuses for this, but still this is a fact.

Ayrilana.1396:

Face it. Raids were developed to be challenging content. There’s nothing challenging about giving it an easy mode so players can coast through it with less effort. The easier you make it, the easier it is for players to coast through it while avoid mechanics. Kind of the opposite effect of throwing more players at something to avoid the mechanics when you see in open world PvE.

No one is trying to take challenging content from raiders, but they are still minority that getting a lot of content in content-starved game, and others want to either some decent way to join them via different difficulty levels (not for same loot, but for proper learning curve), or at least level of attention proportional to population.

Will not work for experienced players? What so difficult about getting a bunch of players at your skill level together? Or would you wlrefer to have experienced players to carry those that are not experienced? Face it. Anyone can create a group and do raids.

They have a small raid team that is separate from everything else. You may have people that temporarily move about to help the various teams such as members of their art department. You also have a fractal team that works on fractals designing content. Four content releases in the past 1.5 years for raids is hardly anything compared to what fractals has gotten.

Playing favorites? Fact? Provide your evidence then.

They are getting a lot of attention? There’s only been four content releases for raids. I’m sorry but the entire game doesn’t revolve around what you play. You’ll have to learn to share and understand that other resources will go to game modes that you may not play. Easy mode would not add to the learning curve. Raids were designed for those that wanted a challenge. If you don’t want a challenge then they obviously were not designed for you.

Rednik.3809:

No one is trying to take challenging content from raiders, but they are still minority that getting a lot of content in content-starved game, and others want to either some decent way to join them via different difficulty levels (not for same loot, but for proper learning curve), or at least level of attention proportional to population.

Raid team around 10 people, living world team 120. Thats fine. Between the last two raid releases were eight months.
The only period of time we got more content was LS1.
And yes an easy mode takes away content as you need ressources to develop it. The raids are not that hard, there is enough room for mistakes.

Rednik.3809:

Creating your own group will not work for inexperienced people. That’s why modern MMOs have multiple difficulty settings.

This points at what Vayne is saying.

For raids, for some players, the effort needed to form a group, plus the force of will to keep it together and focused through the multiple (maybe many) failures needed to figure out how to beat an encounter is just beyond these people. The people who like the challenging content, who have the drive to push through that barrier, have mostly already done so. From that second demographic’s point of view, well, they no longer care to shepherd the newcomers and re-experience the struggle/failures because they’ve already done that, and now they’re farming.

This is why the solution for the newcomer is to not “form your own group,” it’s, “Hope I can find a training group during my limited playtime.” The latter, while more likely to bring success than the former, is a far cry from the, “Log in, look at meta event timer, port and win.” that the core game offers on anything but, maybe TT. While that stuff is still there, let’s face it, even “casuals” can reach a saturation point on old content.

This is just one of several reasons why some players are going to see the game as losing its appeal (and thus, to them, identity, whereas others are going to think the opposite. Heck, some raiders may think the game has found its identity because it is finally offering PvE content aimed at above average players. Remember, the basis for that view is that explorable dungeons were supposed to be this game’s “raids,” and we all know that didn’t pan out, even though Arah and some other paths are still beyond some players.

Vayne.8563:

@OniGirl

You’re missing my point here. The game hasn’t shifted identity to you because this is how you perceive the game’s identity. But the game doesn’t have an identity with a capitol “I”. You saw the game a certain way and it remains that way to you.

More and more people who are casual are seeing the game they saw slip away. Not just raids. Maybe not even mainly raids. I used the winter’s presence shoulder as an example. That is beyond many casual players. They see the people getting it and realize they can’t. Not in one year. Maybe not in two. They see the bat shoulders from halloween. They see timed events in HoT that are on a schedule. for which they have to use LFG to get on a map that can beat it. Those are all changes.

For you the game has changed in a way that hasn’t affected how you perceived it’s identity. For me, that’s mostly true as well.

But just as true, there are people who have stopped playing because the game’s identity has changed for them.

The bigger the shift the more people will be affected. HoT is my favorite content in the game, but I do believe the shift in focus affected a lot of people. To those people, the game has lost it’s identity even if it hasn’t from our point of view.

And there are even people who left when ascended were first introduced who thought the game had lost it’s identity even then.

The problem wasn’t just HoT. It was HoT followed by 9 months of only raids and PvP in a content drought that probably cost the game players. I don’t suspect that will happen again. I don’t think it should have happened in the first place, but hindsight is 20/20.

I’m guilty here of hyperbole, which I’ve often accused people of because I’ve seen casual people walk away from this game in my guild. It’s just getting too much for some of them. Too hard, or too much grind or too much “work”. So yeah, I went over the deep end in some of what I was saying. I don’t like seeing guildies I’ve played with for years walk away because they don’t feel they have time to play the game the way the game requires you to play it now.

They feel left behind and who am I to say they’re wrong?

Well you can’t do a lot about the way people feel. Change is necessary to keep things alive and also to keep people interested.
I started gw2 with two (irl) friend of mine and we created a guild and played as we liked. One friend was always super active, always the first to find something new and to try every game mode and more or less master it. The other friend was the other extreme. Super casual and layed back. To this day never heard about “meta”, rotations, builds or any of that stuff. Me and my more active friend got to a point where we had maxed our gear and levels and had a pretty good knowledge of the game and how to do stuff. And more important we knew where to get information on how to learn stuff thats new.
My casual friend stopped playing because it was too much “work” to keep up. And we are talking about vanilla gw2!!

The game has to keep moving forward and some will drop out but new ones will come in. And just because someone stopped doesnt mean they won’t return at some point.

Vayne.8563:

Objectively you’re right. But I’m not sure how much that really helps the conversation.

There never has been a ‘conversation’ because people participating aren’t talking about the same thing. The original poster was really trying to say, “I don’t seem to like GW2 any longer.”

OniGiri.9461:

Well you can’t do a lot about the way people feel. Change is necessary to keep things alive and also to keep people interested.

That’s exactly why raids ought to be ‘changed’ to offer options that would make them more inclusive.

:D

Jahroots.6791:

OniGiri.9461:

Well you can’t do a lot about the way people feel. Change is necessary to keep things alive and also to keep people interested.

That’s exactly why raids ought to be ‘changed’ to offer options that would make them more inclusive.

:D

Being hard doesnt make it less inclusive.
Inclusive its just the time you need to get the minimun gear to participate in Raids, which is extremely inclusive.
Easier options is not making it more inclusive, is dumbing down a challenge content, and changing it in a way that make no sense, because they didnt want raids as new easy content.
Every time they think about new easy content, they think about a new Open world map they create.

Jahroots.6791:

OniGiri.9461:

Well you can’t do a lot about the way people feel. Change is necessary to keep things alive and also to keep people interested.

That’s exactly why raids ought to be ‘changed’ to offer options that would make them more inclusive.

:D

touché

But seriously “changes” in that department have always ended horrible in the past. Making stuff easier always ends up doing more harm then good. There are numerous occasions in the game where that already happend.

Lets say an easy mode of some sort is implemented. First thing that happens – the hardcores will turn away. Second thing – the big mass will farm that easy mode until they have everything for the legendary armor or the rewards they want and will abandon this game mode (just like they did with pvp). Third – raids now share the fate of dungeons.

Fractals are already a unique game mode where someone can learn everything they need for raids. Teamwork, correct builds, cc, positioning, dps, healing, tanking. It has everything. And after mastering that in a five man squad – doing that in a ten man squad isnt so far away.

Miellyn.6847:

Raid team around 10 people, living world team 120.

You are severely underinformed on this topic. The raid team has around 10 people, who work on raids exclusively, you got that right, but the living world team doesn’t have 120, the live game does. That means just about everyone: LS, QA, Gem store , PvP/WvW etc.

And remember, the around 10 people we are talking about is only the raid team, if only the work of the raid team would be at question here , there would be a lot less issue.

To see what I mean, I’d like to ask you to do a research on the following: compare every in-game earnable reward released from the release of HoT to this day. That means every game mode, Raid, WvW, PvP, Fractal, LS. Then calculate how much goes to each part of the game.

Scipio.3204:

To see what I mean, I’d like to ask you to do a research on the following: compare every in-game earnable reward released from the release of HoT to this day. That means every game mode, Raid, WvW, PvP, Fractal, LS. Then calculate how much goes to each part of the game.

If you’re going to compare rewards between game modes, you should compare the total rewards that they provide up to a given time.

Ayrilana.1396:

Scipio.3204:

To see what I mean, I’d like to ask you to do a research on the following: compare every in-game earnable reward released from the release of HoT to this day. That means every game mode, Raid, WvW, PvP, Fractal, LS. Then calculate how much goes to each part of the game.

If you’re going to compare rewards between game modes, you should compare the total rewards that they provide up to a given time.

I’m not comparing rewards. I’m comparing the resources for rewards divided across all game modes. Take a look at Legendary Armor for example. We have no Idea how many people work on that for how long now , and besides envoy armor variants, we haven’t seen a new armor set released since the expansion.

For veteran players the past is pretty much irrelevant, likely they achieved what they wanted and wait for what will they release next. If the majority of rewards come to a game mode they don’t like at all, how do you think they will feel?

Scipio.3204:

I’m not comparing rewards.

Scipio.3204:

To see what I mean, I’d like to ask you to do a research on the following: compare every in-game earnable reward released from the release of HoT to this day. That means every game mode, Raid, WvW, PvP, Fractal, LS. Then calculate how much goes to each part of the game.

You’re not trying to compare?

Scipio.3204:

I’m comparing the resources for rewards divided across all game modes. Take a look at Legendary Armor for example. We have no Idea how many people work on that for how long now , and besides envoy armor variants, we haven’t seen a new armor set released since the expansion.

For veteran players the past is pretty much irrelevant, likely they achieved what they wanted and wait for what will they release next. If the majority of rewards come to a game mode they don’t like at all, how do you think they will feel?

There’s no way to compare resources for various rewards as we do not know how much was used for each and how much resources they used when compared to the actual content. Your post also gave no indication of resources.

We don’t typically see any new armor sets so it’s not a surprise that we haven’t so far as raid precursor/legendary armor were announced before the expansion released so they’re a part of that even though they’ve been delayed for so long.

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not trying to compare?

You left out the keyword.

Scipio.3204:

released

Ayrilana.1396:

There’s no way to compare resources for various rewards as we do not know how much was used for each and how much resources they used when compared to the actual content. Your post also gave no indication of resources.

We don’t typically see any new armor sets so it’s not a surprise that we haven’t so far as raid precursor/legendary armor were announced before the expansion released so they’re a part of that even though they’ve been delayed for so long.

That doesn’t really change the way things are. Since the release of HoT majority of the rewards is behind raids compared to other game modes, and yet some claim here they don’t understand how some feel raids are in the spotlight.

We did see an armor set during LS 2 , arguably one of the most fun to get. It’s not a crazy theory we didn’t get one with LS 3 because of raids

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not trying to compare?

You left out the keyword.

Scipio.3204:

released

Ayrilana.1396:

There’s no way to compare resources for various rewards as we do not know how much was used for each and how much resources they used when compared to the actual content. Your post also gave no indication of resources.

We don’t typically see any new armor sets so it’s not a surprise that we haven’t so far as raid precursor/legendary armor were announced before the expansion released so they’re a part of that even though they’ve been delayed for so long.

That doesn’t really change the way things are. Since the release of HoT majority of the rewards is behind raids compared to other game modes, and yet some claim here they don’t understand how some feel raids are in the spotlight.

We did see an armor set during LS 2 , arguably one of the most fun to get. It’s not a crazy theory we didn’t get one with LS 3 because of raids

Whether or not “released” was included, you’re still comparing rewards.

Raids are a new game mode so you’re going to see a greater influx of those. It’d be like if you were complaining that fractals at release were getting more rewards than the rest of the game. Besides, LS is getting released at a much greater rate so those rewards will soon surpass what was included as raid awards if they haven’t already.

Raids are meant to be challenging content so if players want to do challenging content then they should do them. If not then they don’t. I don’t recall the elite maps from GW1 getting an easy mode such as Underworld. They were meant to be challenging.

Scipio.3204:

That doesn’t really change the way things are. Since the release of HoT majority of the rewards is behind raids compared to other game modes, and yet some claim here they don’t understand how some feel raids are in the spotlight.

We did see an armor set during LS 2 , arguably one of the most fun to get. It’s not a crazy theory we didn’t get one with LS 3 because of raids

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Behellagh.1468:

Scipio.3204:

That doesn’t really change the way things are. Since the release of HoT majority of the rewards is behind raids compared to other game modes, and yet some claim here they don’t understand how some feel raids are in the spotlight.

We did see an armor set during LS 2 , arguably one of the most fun to get. It’s not a crazy theory we didn’t get one with LS 3 because of raids

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Interestingly, there’s hardly anything that is exclusive to WvW.

We do get tumbleweeds from the office of Mr O’brien, though. Lucky us.

Ayrilana.1396:

Whether or not “released” was included, you’re still comparing rewards.

Well, Duh. Maybe because to extract any conclusion regarding the resources we have to look at the products, and since we don’t know the distribution of the reward team amongst game modes, the only thing we can look at is the actual released rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raids are a new game mode so you’re going to see a greater influx of those. It’d be like if you were complaining that fractals at release were getting more rewards than the rest of the game.

There is a huge difference here because of several reasons. One being is fractals are made to be accessible, and two, fractals don’t expand like raids do. One new fractal doesn’t need its own set of rewards to be appealing , unlike in the case of raids.

Ayrilana.1396:

Besides, LS is getting released at a much greater rate so those rewards will soon surpass what was included as raid awards if they haven’t already.

I don’t recall the elite maps from GW1 getting an easy mode such as Underworld. They were meant to be challenging.

Could be a point ,if there weren’t single bosses having more rewards than entire episodes.
On the GW1 argument, I believe Vayne already adressed that a little way back.

Behellagh.1468:

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Context. Perhaps I was misunderstable , I was refering to rewards being released after HoT. Personally I have everything I want from raids including the armor

Rednik.3809:

Creating your own group will not work for inexperienced people. That’s why modern MMOs have multiple difficulty settings.

Creating your own group for players inexperienced with a given bit of content, including raids, does work. Has already worked. Must, by definition, work or there would never be experienced players.

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

Whether or not “released” was included, you’re still comparing rewards.

Well, Duh. Maybe because to extract any conclusion regarding the resources we have to look at the products, and since we don’t know the distribution of the reward team amongst game modes, the only thing we can look at is the actual released rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raids are a new game mode so you’re going to see a greater influx of those. It’d be like if you were complaining that fractals at release were getting more rewards than the rest of the game.

There is a huge difference here because of several reasons. One being is fractals are made to be accessible, and two, fractals don’t expand like raids do. One new fractal doesn’t need its own set of rewards to be appealing , unlike in the case of raids.

Ayrilana.1396:

Besides, LS is getting released at a much greater rate so those rewards will soon surpass what was included as raid awards if they haven’t already.

I don’t recall the elite maps from GW1 getting an easy mode such as Underworld. They were meant to be challenging.

Could be a point ,if there weren’t single bosses having more rewards than entire episodes.
On the GW1 argument, I believe Vayne already adressed that a little way back.

Behellagh.1468:

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Context. Perhaps I was misunderstable , I was refering to rewards being released after HoT. Personally I have everything I want from raids including the armor

Then why go and say you weren’t comparing rewards?

Raids are accessible too. Fractals are not on the same level as raids and you can view the rewards as for the entire raid that is unlocked by completing each wing. There isn’t a difference in regards to what I was talking about as what you’re seeing is an influx of rewards to catch up with what other areas of the game provide.

Have you actually counted the rewards that each episode have provided against what each wing has provided?

Ayrilana.1396:

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

Whether or not “released” was included, you’re still comparing rewards.

Well, Duh. Maybe because to extract any conclusion regarding the resources we have to look at the products, and since we don’t know the distribution of the reward team amongst game modes, the only thing we can look at is the actual released rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raids are a new game mode so you’re going to see a greater influx of those. It’d be like if you were complaining that fractals at release were getting more rewards than the rest of the game.

There is a huge difference here because of several reasons. One being is fractals are made to be accessible, and two, fractals don’t expand like raids do. One new fractal doesn’t need its own set of rewards to be appealing , unlike in the case of raids.

Ayrilana.1396:

Besides, LS is getting released at a much greater rate so those rewards will soon surpass what was included as raid awards if they haven’t already.

I don’t recall the elite maps from GW1 getting an easy mode such as Underworld. They were meant to be challenging.

Could be a point ,if there weren’t single bosses having more rewards than entire episodes.
On the GW1 argument, I believe Vayne already adressed that a little way back.

Behellagh.1468:

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Context. Perhaps I was misunderstable , I was refering to rewards being released after HoT. Personally I have everything I want from raids including the armor

Then why go and say you weren’t comparing rewards?

Raids are accessible too. Fractals are not on the same level as raids and you can view the rewards as for the entire raid that is unlocked by completing each wing. There isn’t a difference in regards to what I was talking about as what you’re seeing is an influx of rewards to catch up with what other areas of the game provide.

Have you actually counted the rewards that each episode have provided against what each wing has provided?

Because the emphasis isn’t on what has been released, rather on what is currently being worked on and what will be worked on. Or should I say how much resources raids need to take to make them as compelling as they currently are. And as we know, content interest should be increased not kept on the same level.

It wouldn’t be such an issue that raids get this many, but the fact it is exclusive by it’s nature. Every content has exclusive rewards, but they also have a lot of non-exclusive. I’m pretty sure raids took the lead in terms of exclusives in the short period of time they are in-game.

Also yes, I did most , but feel free to do the same. For example Out of Shadows bought us a new Backpack skin and a Helm, which is multi-mode available. The latest one 2 armor piece, 1 back and 2 (?) weapon. Matthias alone has 9 exclusive weapon skin.

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

Whether or not “released” was included, you’re still comparing rewards.

Well, Duh. Maybe because to extract any conclusion regarding the resources we have to look at the products, and since we don’t know the distribution of the reward team amongst game modes, the only thing we can look at is the actual released rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raids are a new game mode so you’re going to see a greater influx of those. It’d be like if you were complaining that fractals at release were getting more rewards than the rest of the game.

There is a huge difference here because of several reasons. One being is fractals are made to be accessible, and two, fractals don’t expand like raids do. One new fractal doesn’t need its own set of rewards to be appealing , unlike in the case of raids.

Ayrilana.1396:

Besides, LS is getting released at a much greater rate so those rewards will soon surpass what was included as raid awards if they haven’t already.

I don’t recall the elite maps from GW1 getting an easy mode such as Underworld. They were meant to be challenging.

Could be a point ,if there weren’t single bosses having more rewards than entire episodes.
On the GW1 argument, I believe Vayne already adressed that a little way back.

Behellagh.1468:

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Context. Perhaps I was misunderstable , I was refering to rewards being released after HoT. Personally I have everything I want from raids including the armor

Then why go and say you weren’t comparing rewards?

Raids are accessible too. Fractals are not on the same level as raids and you can view the rewards as for the entire raid that is unlocked by completing each wing. There isn’t a difference in regards to what I was talking about as what you’re seeing is an influx of rewards to catch up with what other areas of the game provide.

Have you actually counted the rewards that each episode have provided against what each wing has provided?

Because the emphasis isn’t on what has been released, rather on what is currently being worked on and what will be worked on. Or should I say how much resources raids need to take to make them as compelling as they currently are. And as we know, content interest should be increased not kept on the same level.

It wouldn’t be such an issue that raids get this many, but the fact it is exclusive by it’s nature. Every content has exclusive rewards, but they also have a lot of non-exclusive. I’m pretty sure raids took the lead in terms of exclusives in the short period of time they are in-game.

Also yes, I did most , but feel free to do the same. For example Out of Shadows bought us a new Backpack skin and a Helm, which is multi-mode available. The latest one 2 armor piece, 1 back and 2 (?) weapon. Matthias alone has 9 exclusive weapon skin.

The living story inched ahead and even more so when you account for everything released since HoT. I wouldn’t focus too much on rewards since counting them doesn’t mean all that much as we don’t know how much time went into them.

The bulk of the unique rewards for raids are the weapon skins. I guess you could ask how many resources are spent on weapon skins but then we typically don’t get them in PvE anyway but though the BLTC chests. I haven’t seen any new BLTC weapon skins for some time so perhaps one could argue the raid weapon skins were developed by whoever did those skins. That would mean that PvE in the rest of the game didn’t really lose anything. there are some difference but I don’t know if they’re substantial enough to matter.

To Ayrilana.1396,

Its interesting how you claim that the only people who should be able to raid are those that have enough “dedication”. And people, who refuse to put in the effort shouldn’t raid. How about people who like challenges, but hate having to socialize and rely on 9 other people. Read my comments on page 3 and 4 of this topic.

Shouldn’t “challenging” content be based only on pure skill and dedication? Raids should be relabeled “Socially Challenging Content” instead, because the true challenge comes from having to deal with people. I am not Human Resources, I want to play the game, not deal with conflicting interests and drama. Yes, there is a major issue with raid accessibility.

I like how you mentioned GW1, I beaten all elite zones without other players. Some examples being Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Slavers Exile, Domain of Anguish, The Deep, Urgoz, Winds of Change(HM), War in Kryta (HM), all missions and explorable areas(HM). In GW2, I’ve done all PvE areas, events, dungeons, and fractals without needing to socialize or communicate with anyone. The only exception to PvE content released by Anet is…. raids.

Fractals and dungeons are easy to learn simply by copying the group, no social drama needed when learning. I’ve PUGed thousands of dungeons and fractals. Here is how the runs go, everyone silently plays, at the end everyone says “ty”. To even learn raids, guess what? you have to deal with drama from other people. I can’t learn on my own pace, with my own schedule, and at my own terms. All Gw1 and Gw2 PvE content except raids is easily accessible.

The “challenge” in challenging content should be because the content itself is actually difficult, not the difficulty of trying to play with 9 other people. I highly suggest you play Dark Souls 3/Bloodborne, No Leveling run, All bosses. Your understand what actual mechanically “challenging content” is. What GW2 needs is challenging content, where the mechanics are challenging, not because its a social challenge.

Ayrilana.1396:

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

Scipio.3204:

Ayrilana.1396:

Whether or not “released” was included, you’re still comparing rewards.

Well, Duh. Maybe because to extract any conclusion regarding the resources we have to look at the products, and since we don’t know the distribution of the reward team amongst game modes, the only thing we can look at is the actual released rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

Raids are a new game mode so you’re going to see a greater influx of those. It’d be like if you were complaining that fractals at release were getting more rewards than the rest of the game.

There is a huge difference here because of several reasons. One being is fractals are made to be accessible, and two, fractals don’t expand like raids do. One new fractal doesn’t need its own set of rewards to be appealing , unlike in the case of raids.

Ayrilana.1396:

Besides, LS is getting released at a much greater rate so those rewards will soon surpass what was included as raid awards if they haven’t already.

I don’t recall the elite maps from GW1 getting an easy mode such as Underworld. They were meant to be challenging.

Could be a point ,if there weren’t single bosses having more rewards than entire episodes.
On the GW1 argument, I believe Vayne already adressed that a little way back.

Behellagh.1468:

No, the majority of rewards YOU want are behind the raids. And specific gameplay modes should have exclusive rewards. There are rewards I would love but they are behind gameplay modes I’m not willing to invest the time in. Raids are no different.

Context. Perhaps I was misunderstable , I was refering to rewards being released after HoT. Personally I have everything I want from raids including the armor

Then why go and say you weren’t comparing rewards?

Raids are accessible too. Fractals are not on the same level as raids and you can view the rewards as for the entire raid that is unlocked by completing each wing. There isn’t a difference in regards to what I was talking about as what you’re seeing is an influx of rewards to catch up with what other areas of the game provide.

Have you actually counted the rewards that each episode have provided against what each wing has provided?

Because the emphasis isn’t on what has been released, rather on what is currently being worked on and what will be worked on. Or should I say how much resources raids need to take to make them as compelling as they currently are. And as we know, content interest should be increased not kept on the same level.

It wouldn’t be such an issue that raids get this many, but the fact it is exclusive by it’s nature. Every content has exclusive rewards, but they also have a lot of non-exclusive. I’m pretty sure raids took the lead in terms of exclusives in the short period of time they are in-game.

Also yes, I did most , but feel free to do the same. For example Out of Shadows bought us a new Backpack skin and a Helm, which is multi-mode available. The latest one 2 armor piece, 1 back and 2 (?) weapon. Matthias alone has 9 exclusive weapon skin.

The living story inched ahead and even more so when you account for everything released since HoT. I wouldn’t focus too much on rewards since counting them doesn’t mean all that much as we don’t know how much time went into them.

The bulk of the unique rewards for raids are the weapon skins. I guess you could ask how many resources are spent on weapon skins but then we typically don’t get them in PvE anyway but though the BLTC chests. I haven’t seen any new BLTC weapon skins for some time so perhaps one could argue the raid weapon skins were developed by whoever did those skins. That would mean that PvE in the rest of the game didn’t really lose anything. there are some difference but I don’t know if they’re substantial enough to matter.

It has been said several times already: The gemstore team works independently from the others. As far as I can tell, the ticket weapons are coming at a steady state, alongside with the outfits. Also one could argue it would be even worse if the raid took resources from them.

Also, no. LS3 didn’t have as many reward as the raids did.

Ayrilana.1396:

The living story inched ahead and even more so when you account for everything released since HoT. I wouldn’t focus too much on rewards since counting them doesn’t mean all that much as we don’t know how much time went into them.

The bulk of the unique rewards for raids are the weapon skins. I guess you could ask how many resources are spent on weapon skins but then we typically don’t get them in PvE anyway but though the BLTC chests. I haven’t seen any new BLTC weapon skins for some time so perhaps one could argue the raid weapon skins were developed by whoever did those skins. That would mean that PvE in the rest of the game didn’t really lose anything. there are some difference but I don’t know if they’re substantial enough to matter.

Just since the start of Season 3.

July 26, 2016 – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Embellished_weapon_skins
August 23, 2016 – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone_weapon_skins
October 18, 2016 – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gargoyle_weapon_skins
December 13, 2016 – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frostforged_weapon_skins
February 8, 2016 – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devoted_weapon_skins

Average gap, about 7 weeks. Since the last one, 37 days.

Your definition of “in some time” is much shorter than mine.

Chun.5827:

To Ayrilana.1396,

Its interesting how you claim that the only people who should be able to raid are those that have enough “dedication”. And people, who refuse to put in the effort shouldn’t raid. How about people who like challenges, but hate having to socialize and rely on 9 other people. Read my comments on page 3 and 4 of this topic.

Shouldn’t “challenging” content be based only on pure skill and dedication? Raids should be relabeled “Socially Challenging Content” instead, because the true challenge comes from having to deal with people. I am not Human Resources, I want to play the game, not deal with conflicting interests and drama. Yes, there is a major issue with raid accessibility.

I like how you mentioned GW1, I beaten all elite zones without other players. Some examples being Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Slavers Exile, Domain of Anguish, The Deep, Urgoz, Winds of Change(HM), War in Kryta (HM), all missions and explorable areas(HM). In GW2, I’ve done all PvE areas, events, dungeons, and fractals without needing to socialize or communicate with anyone. The only exception to PvE content released by Anet is…. raids.

Fractals and dungeons are easy to learn simply by copying the group, no social drama needed when learning. I’ve PUGed thousands of dungeons and fractals. Here is how the runs go, everyone silently plays, at the end everyone says “ty”. To even learn raids, guess what? you have to deal with drama from other people. I can’t learn on my own pace, with my own schedule, and at my own terms. All Gw1 and Gw2 PvE content except raids is easily accessible.

The “challenge” in challenging content should be because the content itself is actually difficult, not the difficulty of trying to play with 9 other people. I highly suggest you play Dark Souls 3/Bloodborne, No Leveling run, All bosses. Your understand what actual mechanically “challenging content” is. What GW2 needs is challenging content, where the mechanics are challenging, not because its a social challenge.

And yet there are players who want some content which requires, and rewards, the very social interaction for organizing and implementing a group dynamic that you do not want to deal with. As you point out, nearly 100% of the game, is already designed and implemented for your preferred play-style. Do you begrudge others one piece of content designed for them?

It would appear that the content ni question is challenging, to some degree, even beyond the social aspect, because people have posted that they have failed encounters despite having succeeded at the social aspect.

Forum bug.