Guild Wars 2

Hi.

I was wondering, what is the official statement on having two versions of the same map? Would that be considered instancing? And yes, I’m talking about Orr and maybe Fort Trinity.

When you defeat Zhaitan, you supposedly clean Orr, however, even after months to no end, no cleansing meets the eyes. Zhaitan’s minions number doesn’t lower by one bit.
Of course, this would be implemented by allowing players who have “unlocked” the clear Orr to go back to the corrupted one so they can meet with other players and complete events may they wish to. With new events on the Clean Orr as well.

These are the points in favor this could have:

• It would help the concept of living story. Zhaithan is dead and there’s no proof of it. Everything is almost the same. Slowly having Orr back would be natural thing to happen. Also, the same for everybody is quick for inconsistency in the story: you can go in Fort Trinity and then you find out you built it.

• Having a free or at least less corrupted Orr to meet would be a great motivation for finishing the Personal Story.

• Clean Orr must play an important role on upcoming fights with other Elder Dragons and the pass by sea to Cantha and Elona. If it stays like it has always been. Is this supposed to happen overnight?

• Let’s say Anet includes” The Conquer of Orr” as part of the LS: that would make the corrupted Orr disappear forever. How would it fit in the personal story afterwards?
  Is Orr going to stay like this forever? Will it be finally resurrected and render the whole Personal Story inconsistent?

The only problem would be having players going in and out of Corrupted and Clean Orr to do events and stuff. But this is a small price in my opinion.

So, I humbly ask: Communal instances yay or nay?

EDIT: Opinions on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1pf40d/do_we_need_a_clean_orr_instance/

EDIT: Groundbreaking idea:

I was thinking and they can reborn just Arah.
Since the dungeon is “instanced” they could make the city alive for the living world and leave the rest as it is.
This would make the same inconsistency as Fort Trinity, where you see it there even though your actions haven’t created it yet, but since Anet seems to have no problem with this, it could be done. Players who need the dungeon would be prompted to go in at the door or something.
Another way would be to instance the city.
People who need to do the Dungeon are just prompted again, while PS completers can choose to enter the Cleansed Arah.
Lorewise this makes sense since the city is a big dome, Risen presense could still be the same outside while the city slowly (slowly as in never ending) reborns.
Dev attention please.

Zhaitan is “downed” but you guys always forget about the Arah dungeon

his commanders are STILL there they STILL controlling the Undeads that’s why the undeads are STILL there.

yes you started healing the Land but that doesen’t kill the undeads.

I made a post like this not too long ago. In other words, I agree.

Zoltreez.6435:

Zhaitan is “downed” but you guys always forget about the Arah dungeon

his commanders are STILL there they STILL controlling the Undeads that’s why the undeads are STILL there.

yes you started healing the Land but that doesen’t kill the undeads.

Not really, dragon commanders are large dragonlike creatures (glint, the great destroyer, drakkar etc.) which there are none of in Arah.

About the death of Zhaitan from the wiki "Since Zhaitan’s defeat, the corruption of Orr has begun to reverse, and the Risen forces have thinned but remain a threat. " I think what people are wanting to see is definately the lore friendly evolution of the zone with the corruption in full retreat.

I don’t actually expect Orr to be cleansed in-game. That’s three very large zones that would have to be reworked pretty heavily, and that’s just not a good use of resources that could be put into making new zones.

Storywise, I like to think that even though Zhaitan is dead and the basic source of his corruption is neutralized, Orr is still going to take years to clean out the last of the undead and make it fit for people to live there again. Even the land itself is hardly going to spring back into life, after so many years as a blighted, toxic hellscape. Not to mention all those years spent underwater, before Zhaitan dredged it up again.

I was kind of under the impression that chronologically the actual maps are taking place before the Arah story mission, and that all the stuff going on in Orr for the players is just the Pact’s build up to the final fight.

I guess that does not fit into Anets grand design of a living dynamic world.

There grand vision instead includes some Sylvari no one has ever heard of and some pirates. I do agree a dynamic living world that changes based on progression (ala World of Warcraft) would be great. I also don’t see it happening due to limitations of the graphics engine and servers. Sadly they built the game on what I understand to be a extremely outdated graphics engine (the same one GW1 used except heavily modified). They have also proven they do not have adequate server resources (The mobs are limited to 25 stacks of condition damage, are due to server calculation limitations).

Sadly even thought this would make a much more inspiring game I don’t see it happening any time soon sadly.

But it is a great idea and would have done wonders for the community.

What if there were new areas created after Cursed Shore that progressively showed a revitalized Orr, like the current Orr shows the Pact’s increased efforts?

I would like to see them cleanse Orr with an expansion release which could coincide with a new personal story campaign dealing with taking out another elder dragon. The new story could perhaps take place starting from around level 50 where the current personal story takes us to Claw Island, and could instead take us somewhere else to deal with a looming threat from from one of the other dragons. This takes the focus away from Orr in the personal story so a new cleansed Orr could be introduced.

Phasing zones is hell of a technology.

The problem with Orr isn’t really the Risen there (They thankfully made them more bearable), it’s that the entire place has no purpose. Nobody does Temple events, nobody really farms there except maybe to get saplings and ore and so forth. And why would they? Champ trains are more profitable. Dungeons don’t require you to go there. The visuals are depressing.

Under a lore viewpoint: as Kaos.9162 pointed out, a simple way to solve the problem is to think that the Orr we visit is the one before the killing Zhaithan. Or as others posted out, the fact that the place is “slowly healing” it means that will require decades, and you have finished your Personal Story at most since an year, so you should hardly see any difference (actually there’s been a patch making Risens less packed in Orr, so they have actually diminished in time ;-D). I know that’s weird to visit zones in a time before or after the events of your Personal Story, but from what I’ve understood it’s something that worked like that also in the first Guild Wars, and it’s what happens when you (re)play dungeons. I think actually ArenaNet understood this problem, and that’s why the Living Story events are completely disconnected from the Personal Story ones: so that irregardless of the moment you are playing in your Personal Story, you can follow the Living one without inconsistencies.

Under a gameplay viewpoint: adding maps means splitting the player base. Orr has already had its problems of staying alive (…), but now – at least on high population servers – the temples are regularly cleansed, and people do the occasional events and farm resource nodes. If ArenaNet were to split Orr, it would once again rot in a state of half-dead map (…).

So, sorry for puns, and even if I really think the current situation is sub-optimal under a storytelling point of view, for me it’s a nay,

Anet should really commit to the living story by sacrificing the personal story — allow Orr to evolve as if the Zhaitan has been killed.

The personal story isn’t very good anyway (neither are the living stories, but at least these have potential to improve while the personal storyn— as it is — is static and forces much of the world to be static as well.)

Arimahn.3568:

Phasing zones is hell of a technology.

The problem with Orr isn’t really the Risen there (They thankfully made them more bearable), it’s that the entire place has no purpose. Nobody does Temple events, nobody really farms there except maybe to get saplings and ore and so forth. And why would they? Champ trains are more profitable. Dungeons don’t require you to go there. The visuals are depressing.

Every server does every temple event several times a day (except for Balthazar).

If you see temples contested is just because they go back risen hands in about 1~2 hours after the event.

While champ farming is the most efficient way to get money, it’s not the only efficient way. Doing all these events is -by far- a lot less boring and monotonous than champ farming for hours.

I’d just be happy with heart quests to start to appear in Orr, starting with upper straits and slowly moving outwards.

I wish Anet would use phasing, especially for situations like this. The same events, etc could go on but they could appear to be different for players who have completed the personal story, while players who haven’t see it as we currently do.

I’ve always suspected that if the remaining portions of Orr are made playable, it will be after the land is cleansed in terms of the timeline. This is not without precedent; the best example I can give is Fort Trinity’s presence in Straits of Devastation even though it isn’t built until the formation of the Pact which occurs during the personal story. This also applies to any presence of the Pact in Orr, really.

The only downside to this is that we don’t really need more jungle/tropical areas.

I think this would be a bad idea. It is hard enough to get people to play in Orr, lets not add another way to keep them out of playing in the current Orr. Anet needs to come with other ways to get people to play in the Current Orr.

I was thinking and they can reborn just Arah.

Since the dungeon is “instanced” they could make the city alive for the living world and leave the rest as it is.
This would make the same inconsistency as Fort Trinity, where you see it there even though your actions haven’t created it yet, but since Anet seems to have no problem with this, it could be done. Players who need the dungeon would be prompted to go in at the door or something.

Another way would be to instance the city.
People who need to do the Dungeon are just prompted again, while PS completers can choose to enter the Cleansed Arah.

Lorewise this makes sense since the city is a big dome, Risen presense could still be the same outside while the city slowly (slowly as in never ending) reborns.

Dev attention please.

MakubeC.3026:

while PS completers can choose to enter the Cleansed Arah.

I really like this idea as a nod to players who have done the PS.

It doesn’t really have to be an option though, arah EXP is done under the presumption that arah has been cleansed etc. (even if you have not). Some small changes like greenery and life would be nice (the undead remnants still make sense, so there would be no need to change them) – just artwork, nothing functional.

I think that Anet should, with each LS update, add just a little more of Orr healing. Just a beach to start…which spreads further inland. Then another coast or tiny island. Perhaps a single temple spreading some healing, and revamping that particular temple’s event chain to a defend rather than attack style.

Over time, we’d see the fruits of our victory against Zaihtan. Then, when Anet finds the time is right, release a LS patch that is focused on the healing of Orr and big changes and a progression to the next chapter in our war against the dragons.

It would be good, but exactly what would be done with Orr? What point would it serve? Maybe if/when they introduce a large living story patch that would equate to an expansion where we start to rebuild Orr and focus our efforts on the other dragons.

Seras.5702:

I think that Anet should, with each LS update, add just a little more of Orr healing. Just a beach to start…which spreads further inland. Then another coast or tiny island. Perhaps a single temple spreading some healing, and revamping that particular temple’s event chain to a defend rather than attack style.

Over time, we’d see the fruits of our victory against Zaihtan. Then, when Anet finds the time is right, release a LS patch that is focused on the healing of Orr and big changes and a progression to the next chapter in our war against the dragons.

As long as the Personal Story exists, it will always restrict the Living World.

There are certain things that just cannot change, Orr (three explorable zones) cannot be fully cleansed (or even partially) without messing the story for those who still haven’t gone through it. We could say that those maps are set in an specific timespan, it doesn’t matter if you visit them after you finish your Personal Story.

I pretty much fully agree with Kaos.9162 and RedGlow.2715 on this.

Some good ideas! I do want to point out, a lot of people are using timescale as a factor for Orr’s regeneration not being realistic in lore terms. I don’t think this applies here.

Orr should or at least could be a jungle by now and that would be perfectly lore friendly.

Alukah.2063:

Seras.5702:

I think that Anet should, with each LS update, add just a little more of Orr healing. Just a beach to start…which spreads further inland. Then another coast or tiny island. Perhaps a single temple spreading some healing, and revamping that particular temple’s event chain to a defend rather than attack style.

Over time, we’d see the fruits of our victory against Zaihtan. Then, when Anet finds the time is right, release a LS patch that is focused on the healing of Orr and big changes and a progression to the next chapter in our war against the dragons.

As long as the Personal Story exists, it will always restrict the Living World.

There are certain things that just cannot change, Orr (three explorable zones) cannot be fully cleansed (or even partially) without messing the story for those who still haven’t gone through it. We could say that those maps are set in an specific timespan, it doesn’t matter if you visit them after you finish your Personal Story.

I pretty much fully agree with Kaos.9162 and RedGlow.2715 on this.

I have to agree. But there are workarounds.
I propossed for only Arah to be available as clean. It would mark the beggining of the cleansing and wouldn’t ruin the living world since all other three areas would stay the same. Maybe add some more explorer NPCs walking around and that’s it.

Then, somewhere inside the city or at the entrance, players would be prompted to enter the Ruined City of Arah dungeon.

Arah can exist in the open world the same way Fort Trinity does.

Should be renamed The Forgotten City. Only players I see there are gatherers.

A pity, in what should be one of the most popular areas in the game.

I hope that Orr would get cleaned up. The zone is plain annoying, with parts that are a jumbled rat maze packed with trash mobs that aren’t worth fighting. The rest of the zone is open, but packed with trash mobs that aren’t worth fighting. Overall, it’s a lousy place to hang around.

I must admit, that would be kinda cool. What with all the effort I put into cleansing the whole thing and defeating Zhaitan…

Maybe we could, at some point, get a prompt triggering upon entering the area that asks everyone who completed the personal story (with the entering character) which version they’d like to engage?

I sincerely hope that Anet do not introduce phasing. Having played ‘that other MMO’ which had phasing I can’t emphasize enough about how bad it was. Ore nodes that vanished just as you reached them, monsters that appeared out of nowhere right on top of you, half your party disappearing between one step and the next, empty villages because they hadn’t bothered to fill it in if you went exploring before doing the appropriate quest. It was a interesting idea, but a nightmare to play.

Oenanthe.6549:

I sincerely hope that Anet do not introduce phasing. Having played ‘that other MMO’ which had phasing I can’t emphasize enough about how bad it was. Ore nodes that vanished just as you reached them, monsters that appeared out of nowhere right on top of you, half your party disappearing between one step and the next, empty villages because they hadn’t bothered to fill it in if you went exploring before doing the appropriate quest. It was a interesting idea, but a nightmare to play.

Why are people afraid to say ‘WoW’ or ‘World of Warcraft’, and instead say “that other MMO”, or “that mmo not to be named”? Never understood why people just can’t say the name.

Anyways, Yeah, phasing an interesting concept, but really isn’t practical when the goal is to keep players playing with each other as much as possible.

Orr has three endgame zones. Players are meant to be playing there and completing events. It’s easy to say that nobody is doing events in Orr so they won’t be missed but in fact the rewards should be fixed so that events are worth completing by interested players as a staple end game activity . If Orr is cleaned up then the events and challenges from those end game zones will be removed and that would be bad for players, worse than the personal story looking unfinished.

just a reminder… The Pact did not BUILD Fort Trinity. the fort was already there, looking at the northeast shore of Orr. Trahearne suggested supplying the fort as a means to launch the assault against the undead as a forward command post. and the player character simply names it “Fort Trinity.”

as for Arah… i would love another explorable zone in Orr. there seems to be enough space for at least 3 more zones there, possibly as many as 6, not counting the Scavenger’s Causeway. i think it would be simple enough to code it so that once you complete Arah Story Mode Dungeon, access would be granted to the rest of Orr.

Personal story is really holding back a lot of the potential for zone development.

Anet should just announce that in X months, the personal story will be eliminated and all these zones can be freed from being frozen in time. The personal story isn’t very good anyway as it’s hardly “personal” at all.

Zhaitan has been defeated but not dead.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

just a reminder… The Pact did not BUILD Fort Trinity. the fort was already there, looking at the northeast shore of Orr. Trahearne suggested supplying the fort as a means to launch the assault against the undead as a forward command post. and the player character simply names it “Fort Trinity.”

as for Arah… i would love another explorable zone in Orr. there seems to be enough space for at least 3 more zones there, possibly as many as 6, not counting the Scavenger’s Causeway. i think it would be simple enough to code it so that once you complete Arah Story Mode Dungeon, access would be granted to the rest of Orr.

Fort Trinity is full of the Pact before you even form the Pact…

Yes, I think there needs to be a new map, which they gradually update with greenery and rebuilding. Orr seems like it was once so beautiful, I would love to walk the city without fear for my life eventually.

I think it can easily be done if it’s like what they did for Kessex in this last update. If you haven’t completed the first instance you’re taken to the instance, if you have you’re taken to Kessex.

Thus, if the individual character has completed the living story you’re taken to the rebuilt Orr map, else the undead Orr map. I’m not sure on the world map if you’d be able to see the difference, I think it could be done, but I don’t know how the world map is pulled.

scarlet will take her troupe to orr and vanquish the risen.

we all misunderstood her for being a baddie.

Or how about we don’t change the existing maps, but open up a new part of Orr where we can see the results of the Cleansing? If you look at the map, you’ll notice that we haven’t seen all of Orr yet. Making the southern or central parts of Orr available as cleansed maps for Players who completed the personal story might be nice

I’d rather they just revamp Orr entirely. Uncontest all the statues and waypoints permanently, cut the current packs of mobs by 50% (at the minimum), make the events easier to solo and up the rewards, and revamp the actual mobs themselves so they don’t all have stuns/roots/snares. Then Orr would be perfect as far as I’m concerned, it’s supposed to be the max level zone but it’s entirely abandoned, making it more friendly to the playerbase and providing more incentives would certainly have me there more often.

Not really. Too much effort and kinda silly.

They should just make more zones.

Any other thoughts?