Guild Wars 2

Despite the Recent change with the introduction of the Ferocity stat I keep noticing that the game’s mechanics still favor greatly Zerker geared players.

• I’m saying this after seeing most of the world bosses, and the recent Queen’s Pavilion Boss rush that are rellying on strict timers as a loosing condition.
• Also all the dungeons become extremely long and tedious if you don’t take down a boss in seconds, plus a boss that takes more time to beat uses more times his whatever trademark devastating attack he might have, increasing the chance of wiping your party from it, and making whatever reason you’ve chosen to invest more on survivability pointless.
• Thirdly, once you’ve learn how to kite and dodge properly, your survivability increases greatly despite whatever glassy build you might be wearing.

I don’t like nagging to “Fix stuff” without offering my personal suggestion on how to deal with the problem.
Here is what I thought:

1. Increase the default Damage output of each Profession while reducing the Damage bonus Power gives. Do it in such way that a Power based build will do the exact same damage it once did, but a non power build will do slightly more damage without investing so much on power. This change doesn’t aim as much on devaluing the power attribute, but more to make the game more fun (dungeons wont drag) and less punishing for the non power builds. This will require delicate balancing, especially in PVP.
2. Have bosses use their most devastating attacks based on percentage of their health they lost, instead of cooldowns. That way Zerkers who cheap a boss health very fast will have to deal with more frequent strong attacks, while non-zerker parties will have more time to heal their wounds and better stats to survive them.
3. Obviously stop relying on timers as a failing condition for bosses. Instead punish raids who die to often or fail in some other condition.
   Example1: Increase the Timer on Tequatle to 18 minutes, but make each dead (not downed) player spawn a strong risen.
   Example2: Increase the Timer of the Claw of Jormag, but put a special condition on each player that dies in the encounter so that he get frozen upon getting closse to the boss for the next 3 minutes.
   The result will be the same for the unorganized and players will start investing on survivability. The rise of the default damage will help ensure that players will still be able to defeat the bosses if organised despite investing on other attributes.

unless you make it impossible to beat a boss with a zerker, everyone will be wearing zerker to kill faster. And if you keep dieing in zerker, you probably just get kicked, because you are not good enough to not die in zerker.

Because that’s what pve have come down to. Kill faster to get reward faster.

Or you make it like the world boss is, which is can’t be crit, and no one is wearing zerker.

I don’t get it.

They can simply solve it by splitting the 3 stats (power, precision, ferocity)
Or maybe allowing maximum only 1 or 2 pieces of zerker stat gear.

Is there a reason why they are still allowing zerker gear in game?

It’s rather toxic to see a party list that does this:
lvl80s zerkers only, ping gear, >10,000AP only

Then imagine the poor just lvl80 new GW2 player who joined the party only to get kicked without knowing the real reason why.

laokoko.7403:

unless you make it impossible to beat a boss with a zerker, everyone will be wearing zerker to kill faster. And if you keep dieing in zerker, you probably just get kicked, because you are not good enough to not die in zerker.

Because that’s what pve have come down to. Kill faster to get reward faster.

Or you make it like the world boss is, which is can’t be crit, and no one is wearing zerker.

Obviously I should have wrote DPS in the topic tittle. It’s just that Zerker has become synonymus with that role…

The problems however are as you mentioned. Everyone tries to just kill faster, and the game just reward them for it. For me it has become very tiring however, as i have invested in other builds, and found that still none of them is as usefull or rewarding as a full dps build…

Many people talk about this, but the key is not really to nerf zerker,
all you are doing by nerfing zerker is making zerker more of a high skill cap weapon set, it will still be superior.

two major ways to deal with the idea that dps is the only thing that matters
1) more skills need to scale off other stats, including defensive and support skills (a berserker is just about the same at every non condition dmg skill as any other gear set, and close enough for pve at durations.
2) better enemy design and encounter design.
enemies need to have more attacks for less damage, and be more mobile/adaptive

any number tweaks will simply make it so its still the best, but you have to be really good to make good use of it.

I just don’t understand what is so hard about understanding the very simple fact that in this game, the highest damage will always be the most efficient. If that is, 4 berserkers and one knight gear spec professions, then that’s what it is. Optimization will always be a thing. It’s like saying “I want there to be an ocean but I don’t want there to be water.” As long as there is an end to a boss fight, there’s always going to be a quickest way to kill it.

Snowmoon.1758:

I don’t get it.

They can simply solve it by splitting the 3 stats (power, precision, ferocity)
Or maybe allowing maximum only 1 or 2 pieces of zerker stat gear.

Is there a reason why they are still allowing zerker gear in game?

It’s rather toxic to see a party list that does this:
lvl80s zerkers only, ping gear, >10,000AP only

Then imagine the poor just lvl80 new GW2 player who joined the party only to get kicked without knowing the real reason why.

If he’s level 80 he know what AP are and what Zerker is, there is no reason he should have joined that party in the first place. How about joining a party that says nothing.

Not this kitten again…

1. Even if you nerf zerk into oblivion something will always be the “meta” and people will look to utilize that.

2. People using the LFG tool or otherwise trying to group with like minded, efficient and experienced players is not “toxic” at all. In fact it is the people who continually whine about this kind of thing that drags the community into the gutter.

3. Regardless as to what some seem to be implying, the fact is that using full glass zerk is more difficult than other approaches and does take more skill.

Now some seem to be under the impression that it should require more skill, well i’m all for that, but I wonder, just who the heck they think they are to be the arbiters of how much skill other people should have in order to use a build type/gear set?

What happens when the difficulty to use zerk is increased by 10% but a few people continue to cry about LFG zerk groups? Let’s increase it some more? How about another 10%? Oh wait, Timmy the lolfacetank still thinks zerk is too easy, let’s make it another 10% harder so he can sleep better at night when using his over9000 too much toughness build.

4. 99.99% of the content is faceroll easy with zero meaningful kill timers and/or is able to be done in non zerk gear. The introduction of kill time events like Liadri is done in order to push people out of their comfort zone. Even then such events were a cakewalk in condi gear, as is pretty much everything else.

Berserker gear isn’t even the problem. Would you nerf PVT armor since everyone relies on that for world bosses that are immune to crits and conditions, or Condi stat armor since many classes rely on it for PvP/WvW?

There will always be a best setup to use. Making berserker less effective would just mean people would require different stat gear in their groups.

Honestly, whenever Anet even takes steps to nerf “berserker”, it just ends up hurting casuals more because stuff takes longer to kill and so more chances for them to die.

Snowmoon.1758:

I don’t get it.

They can simply solve it by splitting the 3 stats (power, precision, ferocity)
Or maybe allowing maximum only 1 or 2 pieces of zerker stat gear.

Is there a reason why they are still allowing zerker gear in game?

It’s rather toxic to see a party list that does this:
lvl80s zerkers only, ping gear, >10,000AP only

Then imagine the poor just lvl80 new GW2 player who joined the party only to get kicked without knowing the real reason why.

He shouldn’t have joined a group that he didn’t meet the requirements for. There are plenty of non-zerker groups.

Fenrir.3609:

Not this kitten again…

1. Even if you nerf zerk into oblivion something will always be the “meta” and people will look to utilize that.

2. People using the LFG tool or otherwise trying to group with like minded, efficient and experienced players is not “toxic” at all. In fact it is the people who continually whine about this kind of thing that drags the community into the gutter.

3. Regardless as to what some seem to be implying, the fact is that using full glass zerk is more difficult than other approaches and does take more skill.

Now some seem to be under the impression that it should require more skill, well i’m all for that, but I wonder, just who the heck they think they are to be the arbiters of how much skill other people should have in order to use a build type/gear set?

What happens when the difficulty to use zerk is increased by 10% but a few people continue to cry about LFG zerk groups? Let’s increase it some more? How about another 10%? Oh wait, Timmy the lolfacetank still thinks zerk is too easy, let’s make it another 10% harder so he can sleep better at night when using his over9000 too much toughness build.

4. 99.99% of the content is faceroll easy with zero meaningful kill timers and/or is able to be done in non zerk gear. The introduction of kill time events like Liadri is done in order to push people out of their comfort zone. Even then such events were a cakewalk in condi gear, as is pretty much everything else.

I like your name.

cof p1 7min vs cof p1 30min, which one will you choose?

Snowmoon.1758:

I don’t get it.

They can simply solve it by splitting the 3 stats (power, precision, ferocity)
Or maybe allowing maximum only 1 or 2 pieces of zerker stat gear.

Is there a reason why they are still allowing zerker gear in game?

It’s rather toxic to see a party list that does this:
lvl80s zerkers only, ping gear, >10,000AP only

Then imagine the poor just lvl80 new GW2 player who joined the party only to get kicked without knowing the real reason why.

That won’t help at all. Because then what happens is that everyone would use the next best alternative and min-max to that, and all you get is slower fights and still zero build diversity.

To be honest with you. Full zerker is something which every raider wants in every MMO. The idea of every MMO is to pile on as much deeps as you can under x,y,z constraints. The problem with GW2 is that it lacks that constraint in PvE.

In PvP, zerker isn’t so popular, because it has a constraint of the other player will whale on you, and you will just get hit sometimes, a lot even. So, the way to solve it is to make PvE more like PvP: faster attacks and better AI.

I don’t really get why we don’t have that to be honest, just looking at the training NPCs in the mists, they clearly can create it.

Berserker doesn’t need a nerf. Many times I join zerk groups on the LFG only to find that almost all of them aren’t, or at least they have no idea how to maximize their dps. those groups either end up killing things just as slow as a pug, or they all wipe on some random part (for example in CoE, the first alpha fight) because they are ‘zerk’ and thus have no idea how to dodge or mitigate any dmg. Zerker doesn’t need a nerf, if anything it is the experience and sensibility (ie. those who actually read posts, as opposed to the ones who join posts for which they don’t meet the reqs) of common players in the LFG that needs a buff.

yep that tiny nerf did nothing. People are still charging the largest for zerker gear enchants, they still run pure zerker builds, nothing’s changed.

Until they restore the three other roles to their former glory this will continue to happen. I speak of course of CC, Support, Condition Builds.

tigirius.9014:

yep that tiny nerf did nothing. People are still charging the largest for zerker gear enchants, they still run pure zerker builds, nothing’s changed.

Until they restore the three other roles to their former glory this will continue to happen. I speak of course of CC, Support, Condition Builds.

CC and support are used all the time in meta groups. Condition not so much just because of how they currently work.

1. crit damage is nerfed
2. reflects are nerfed across dungeons
3. spider queen drops poison in melee

and people are still complaining about berserker gear

how much more do you want

maha.7902:

3. spider queen drops poison in melee

of course, this goes both ways. groups with bad dps will end up ranging the boss with bows, groups with zerker will end up bursting down the boss but most or all of them dying at the end. in both cases, it’s now more time lost. continued whining of zerkers being OP will only lead to more waste of time, for all groups regardless of their gear.

maha.7902:

1. crit damage is nerfed
2. reflects are nerfed across dungeons
3. spider queen drops poison in melee

and people are still complaining about berserker gear

how much more do you want

They want tank and healer

Honestly this is one of the main reasons i quit playing again for a while. I honestly do not see the point in completing a dungeon in minutes to make more money by farming the same thing again. I feel the best solution is to lock the dungeon path after copmpletion, or just say boss chests are a once a day think there to.

I like the idea of locking a path after completing it. On a once a day basis of course.

Also zerkers are still useless when it comes to bosses like teq. They die to quick, and you still can not crit teq. Unless this got changed.

lol what’s the problem with the people here? why are they sooo concerned about what other people are wearing? it’s almost as idiotic as ‘i hate how sooo many girls are wearing pants than skirts. theyre girls. they should wear skirts.’ seriously, for what reason are you guys hating on zerkers?
- people with zerker gear are noob and die too much in dungeons!
• well lol blame that on them being a bad player, not on being a zerker.
- well they die too much in world boss too!
• well what did you guys expect? in this game, everyone basically is superman. every class has some kind of healing spell but there’s no class that’s 100% healer. all classes have some sort of damage/debuff/status effect mitigation but no class is fully specced for actual full tanking and full aggression soaking. and ofcourse, ever class has the potential to damage high with zerker gear so if it works, if it’s fast, if it’s doable then why spec for anything else?
- i still want others to be like me and have the illusion of being different that still works! hate zerker!
• well people can own 2 or more sets so calm your kittens.

Xae Isareth.1364:

In PvP, zerker isn’t so popular, because it has a constraint of the other player will whale on you, and you will just get hit sometimes, a lot even. So, the way to solve it is to make PvE more like PvP: faster attacks and better AI.

I’m using this one as an example, the core of the message (2nd paragraph and onwards) is for all of you.

I main ele, the class with the smallest health pool in the game. The only reason I can stay alive is because during the current encounters I can mitigate all damage with active defenses. If the change you suggested ever happened I would be forced to choose more defensive stats and a defensive(healing) build in order to be able to survive the encounter. Meanwhile a warrior in berzerker gear with a dps build would still be able to yolo trough it. At the moment there are still a kittenton of PUGs that only want heavies in their teams and such a change would only enforce that kind of mentality.

The beauty of gw2 lies in it’s viability. Right now you can complete every dungeon with every possible group/gear/trait/weapon setup. Not all of them are efficient but they are all viable.
Nearly all of the suggestions that are made in threads like these would destroy this viability. You people never think about the consequenses for other builds, gear choices and classes. All you want is for your special snowflake build to be highly desired in every dungeon group. Imho you guys are all a bunch of selfish pricks and this attitude needs to stop.

I have to admit that rampager stats combined with a condi dps build should be able to deal damage that is comparable with berzerker stats and a direct damage dps build, even in groups. Aside from that, the game is fine.

ipan.4356:

They need to buff other gear – for diversity.

The real problem is railroading everyone into a preferred playstyle.

Damage is damage – and in the end, if you want to be a glass cannon – fine.

But the real problem is that Anet isn’t smart enough yet to make other playstyles just as rewarding.

It should be a trade off – not an obvious choice.

A game where there is only one choice isn’t a game with choice at all.

Make other gear loadouts just as good as ’Zerker, just in a different way.

Yh it is true , when somebody wants to support or become healer let him do this but right now there is no choice . You can be zerker or you can be slow and die trying . I think all stats (except zerk) need buff and I think that good idea would be getting rid of power,prec,crit or remove power so every build will deal same basic dmg .

In your second post, you clarified that this post is actually about DPS builds rather than Zerker builds more accurately, and that DPS has become synonymous with Zerk.

With that in mind, I personally don’t believe that Zerker is the only and most efficient DPS build anymore. Its just the most straight forward. Necros with optimal builds can pretty much melt lesser mobs nowadays. Also, you’ll seldom see zerker builds in sPvP, and S/S condi warriors can thrive reasonably well in all PvE, WvW and sPvP (but not the best in any one).

When it comes to bosses, the vast amount of health of bosses mitigates any effective difference in DPS from power and from condition damage. In PvE bosses, for me it doesn’t really make that much of a difference what the builds of the individuals in a crowd, just the number of people.

Dungeon bosses are different however, and the problem therein lies not in the type of DPS (power or condition damage) but the lack in usefulness of non-DPS builds. The root of this, I believe, is not in the tweaking of the numbers (as you suggest) but in some fundamentals in combat mechanics of the game, mainly 1.) going away from focus on the Trinity and 2.) that everybody has the capacity to heal himself and others, and has some sort of survivability mechanics (glass cannons arent really very glass cannon in this game)

All that is fine in my opinion, but the fault lies in the lack of combat variation in terms of boss fights. Most boss fights are pretty straight forward -boss deals damage, or summon minions that deal damage, and players deal damage to the boss. So of course DPS is the most effective way to go about it.

But consider this:

For example, in Temple of Grenth where you have to protect Jones (otherwise event will fail), WHAT IF… there are time intervals when the Priest is invulnerable and he will only attack Jones?

Then you will start seeing more people shout “need healers, guardians”.

This is what I meant by variation within combat mechanics – that combat should be designed around not solely on damage exchange. There are so many ways to design it, like maybe part of a dungeon requires players to just go through flame traps (and they have no choice but to take the condition), then people will start to pay attention to buffs, condition removal/reduction etc.

petyr baelish.9675:

Xae Isareth.1364:

In PvP, zerker isn’t so popular, because it has a constraint of the other player will whale on you, and you will just get hit sometimes, a lot even. So, the way to solve it is to make PvE more like PvP: faster attacks and better AI.

I’m using this one as an example, the core of the message (2nd paragraph and onwards) is for all of you.

I main ele, the class with the smallest health pool in the game. The only reason I can stay alive is because during the current encounters I can mitigate all damage with active defenses. If the change you suggested ever happened I would be forced to choose more defensive stats and a defensive(healing) build in order to be able to survive the encounter. Meanwhile a warrior in berzerker gear with a dps build would still be able to yolo trough it. At the moment there are still a kittenton of PUGs that only want heavies in their teams and such a change would only enforce that kind of mentality.

The beauty of gw2 lies in it’s viability. Right now you can complete every dungeon with every possible group/gear/trait/weapon setup. Not all of them are efficient but they are all viable.
Nearly all of the suggestions that are made in threads like these would destroy this viability. You people never think about the consequenses for other builds, gear choices and classes. All you want is for your special snowflake build to be highly desired in every dungeon group. Imho you guys are all a bunch of selfish pricks and this attitude needs to stop.

I have to admit that rampager stats combined with a condi dps build should be able to deal damage that is comparable with berzerker stats and a direct damage dps build, even in groups. Aside from that, the game is fine.

Do you see full zerk warriors yoloing through PvP? When you play a warrior in WvW, do you just go full zerk, 100b and facetank all the damage the other players do on you?

I tried it, unsurprisingly it didn’t work very well.

Defensive stats and abilities are something which should be factored into every consideration, not a pair of training wheels for the unskilled. MMOs diversify based on constraints, when you build for anything in any MMO, it’s a matter of pulling max DPS based in x, y, z constraints. If you want build diversity, you need x, y, z.

Yes it is upsetting that so many people rely on zerkers but is also a good thing, being able to play a zerker class means that the person (should) know what they are doing as pretty much most zerkers can get 1 hit in dungeons/fractals, it shows that learning to dodge and time attacks/using blinds effectively so on is key to be able to do if you want to play zerker. For people who aren’t so able to time and dodge effectively they can use tankier gear until they start to learn their timings and then eventually move on to zerker gear.
So to me running zerkers is more a test of skill rather than a need, people only want zerkers in their group because they know they can get the job done quickly and not have to worry about other members of their party.

Kite.2510:

Despite the Recent change with the introduction of the Ferocity stat I keep noticing that the game’s mechanics still favor greatly Zerker geared players.

• I’m saying this after seeing most of the world bosses, and the recent Queen’s Pavilion Boss rush that are rellying on strict timers as a loosing condition.
• Also all the dungeons become extremely long and tedious if you don’t take down a boss in seconds, plus a boss that takes more time to beat uses more times his whatever trademark devastating attack he might have, increasing the chance of wiping your party from it, and making whatever reason you’ve chosen to invest more on survivability pointless.
• Thirdly, once you’ve learn how to kite and dodge properly, your survivability increases greatly despite whatever glassy build you might be wearing.

I don’t like nagging to “Fix stuff” without offering my personal suggestion on how to deal with the problem.
Here is what I thought:

1. Increase the default Damage output of each Profession while reducing the Damage bonus Power gives. Do it in such way that a Power based build will do the exact same damage it once did, but a non power build will do slightly more damage without investing so much on power. This change doesn’t aim as much on devaluing the power attribute, but more to make the game more fun (dungeons wont drag) and less punishing for the non power builds. This will require delicate balancing, especially in PVP.
2. Have bosses use their most devastating attacks based on percentage of their health they lost, instead of cooldowns. That way Zerkers who cheap a boss health very fast will have to deal with more frequent strong attacks, while non-zerker parties will have more time to heal their wounds and better stats to survive them.
3. Obviously stop relying on timers as a failing condition for bosses. Instead punish raids who die to often or fail in some other condition.
   Example1: Increase the Timer on Tequatle to 18 minutes, but make each dead (not downed) player spawn a strong risen.
   Example2: Increase the Timer of the Claw of Jormag, but put a special condition on each player that dies in the encounter so that he get frozen upon getting closse to the boss for the next 3 minutes.
   The result will be the same for the unorganized and players will start investing on survivability. The rise of the default damage will help ensure that players will still be able to defeat the bosses if organised despite investing on other attributes.

1.The meta will now be non-power builds that focus on stacking boons. Possibly a new PVE condi meta. Nothing will change. There will still be a meta to adhere to.

2.Zerkers will just bypass or mitigate the damage. And if they can’t the content will be abandoned by the majority of players.

3.This idea of yours has immense potential for griefing and also separates the player base as good and experience players will seek to chase away newbies or low level players since their deaths are now ruining the event.
With the current system new players and low level players can still be “carried” by a good group of experienced players. With your system each death makes the content harder to the point that people will gather in communities designed to do “x boss” and try to hide and sneak from everyone else so they don’t get randoms ruining the run.

Such things are already happening today to a lesser degree.

A-net wants players playing together not apart.
Also trolls would and could destroy almost any world boss by simply dying, WP, dying etc.

None of the suggestions are viable.

Xae Isareth.1364:

petyr baelish.9675:

Xae Isareth.1364:

In PvP, zerker isn’t so popular, because it has a constraint of the other player will whale on you, and you will just get hit sometimes, a lot even. So, the way to solve it is to make PvE more like PvP: faster attacks and better AI.

I’m using this one as an example, the core of the message (2nd paragraph and onwards) is for all of you.

I main ele, the class with the smallest health pool in the game. The only reason I can stay alive is because during the current encounters I can mitigate all damage with active defenses. If the change you suggested ever happened I would be forced to choose more defensive stats and a defensive(healing) build in order to be able to survive the encounter. Meanwhile a warrior in berzerker gear with a dps build would still be able to yolo trough it. At the moment there are still a kittenton of PUGs that only want heavies in their teams and such a change would only enforce that kind of mentality.

The beauty of gw2 lies in it’s viability. Right now you can complete every dungeon with every possible group/gear/trait/weapon setup. Not all of them are efficient but they are all viable.
Nearly all of the suggestions that are made in threads like these would destroy this viability. You people never think about the consequenses for other builds, gear choices and classes. All you want is for your special snowflake build to be highly desired in every dungeon group. Imho you guys are all a bunch of selfish pricks and this attitude needs to stop.

I have to admit that rampager stats combined with a condi dps build should be able to deal damage that is comparable with berzerker stats and a direct damage dps build, even in groups. Aside from that, the game is fine.

Do you see full zerk warriors yoloing through PvP? When you play a warrior in WvW, do you just go full zerk, 100b and facetank all the damage the other players do on you?

I tried it, unsurprisingly it didn’t work very well.

Defensive stats and abilities are something which should be factored into every consideration, not a pair of training wheels for the unskilled. MMOs diversify based on constraints, when you build for anything in any MMO, it’s a matter of pulling max DPS based in x, y, z constraints. If you want build diversity, you need x, y, z.

It’s common sense that when you make mobs that hit so hard even a warrior has to change his gear to passive defense stats in order to survive, the squishy classes will be forced into wearing PVT or cleric gear, I suppose a healer will become something mandatory as well.

There is a lot of build diversity within the dps meta, just because you deny it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. And as I said before anything is viable. I don’t see how forcing people to invest in passive defenses in order to pass a certain piece of content, regardless of skill, will improve the game in any way whatsoever.

ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.

Fenrir.3609:

Not this kitten again…

1. Even if you nerf zerk into oblivion something will always be the “meta” and people will look to utilize that.

2. People using the LFG tool or otherwise trying to group with like minded, efficient and experienced players is not “toxic” at all. In fact it is the people who continually whine about this kind of thing that drags the community into the gutter.

3. Regardless as to what some seem to be implying, the fact is that using full glass zerk is more difficult than other approaches and does take more skill.

Now some seem to be under the impression that it should require more skill, well i’m all for that, but I wonder, just who the heck they think they are to be the arbiters of how much skill other people should have in order to use a build type/gear set?

What happens when the difficulty to use zerk is increased by 10% but a few people continue to cry about LFG zerk groups? Let’s increase it some more? How about another 10%? Oh wait, Timmy the lolfacetank still thinks zerk is too easy, let’s make it another 10% harder so he can sleep better at night when using his over9000 too much toughness build. <—-lol

4. 99.99% of the content is faceroll easy with zero meaningful kill timers and/or is able to be done in non zerk gear. The introduction of kill time events like Liadri is done in order to push people out of their comfort zone. Even then such events were a cakewalk in condi gear, as is pretty much everything else.

so true.

Alex.9567:

ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.

^^

Liadri is probably the best PvE boss in this entire game and you (at least I did) can beat her even with cleric gear.
That being said, just look at the feedback on this boss, all the whining and asking for nerfs.

jackson.4256:

cof p1 7min vs cof p1 30min, which one will you choose?

People complains goes farther than this. Players who are fond with clasic MMORPG will preffer a game where COF P1 7 mins is not even an option. To be honest, I don’t consider cof a dungeon anymore and I wish this game had real dungeons.

Alex.9567:

ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.

I run full zerk on 4 out of my 5 80s and I’m still against this “all in full zerk” logic. I don’t blame the players though, they are min/maxing the game and that is what most of us like in games where you can customize your character. I do blame ANet for making a game with so many flaws on its core design that a party of 5 dps can complete any content. Anything is trivial and loose meaning soon. What’s worse, its a horrible way to present the game to new players, specially if they have previous experience in MMOs.

Mesket.5728:

Alex.9567:

ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.

I run full zerk on 4 out of my 5 80s and I’m still against this “all in full zerk” logic. I don’t blame the players though, they are min/maxing the game and that is what most of us like in games where you can customize your character. I do blame ANet for making a game with so many flaws on its core design that a party of 5 dps can complete any content. Anything is trivial and loose meaning soon. What’s worse, its a horrible way to present the game to new players, specially if they have previous experience in MMOs.

You want dps/tank/heal…this game was advertised as not having a trinity. Why are you playing?

I’m in agreement with others that simply nerfing berserker gear is not the answer. I don’t agree that the change to ferocity ‘did nothing’ or is ‘useless’ though. It was simply the first step in a long list of things that needed to be done in order to balance the various available roles to make support and cc more desirable.

I think we’re starting to see some of the further changes, although I don’t think their implementations are perfect. The amount of things no longer reflect able might require a bit of tweaking, for example.

data.4093:

Mesket.5728:

Alex.9567:

ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.

I run full zerk on 4 out of my 5 80s and I’m still against this “all in full zerk” logic. I don’t blame the players though, they are min/maxing the game and that is what most of us like in games where you can customize your character. I do blame ANet for making a game with so many flaws on its core design that a party of 5 dps can complete any content. Anything is trivial and loose meaning soon. What’s worse, its a horrible way to present the game to new players, specially if they have previous experience in MMOs.

You want dps/tank/heal…this game was advertised as not having a trinity. Why are you playing?

No I don’t want that. I didn’t say it or imply it. Your reading comprehension need some improvement.

Please, make the effort of expaaaanding your mind just a little bit beyond the trinity. There are thousands of other roles they could come up with besides tank/heal. Many other games did it before successfully. Stop being stuck in the trinity or nothing mentality.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m in agreement with others that simply nerfing berserker gear is not the answer. I don’t agree that the change to ferocity ‘did nothing’ or is ‘useless’ though. It was simply the first step in a long list of things that needed to be done in order to balance the various available roles to make support and cc more desirable.

I think we’re starting to see some of the further changes, although I don’t think their implementations are perfect. The amount of things no longer reflect able might require a bit of tweaking, for example.

support is already extremely desirable. CC has niche uses but when used, it can be used very effectively. what is the problem here?

I have never run a zerker build since the release of GW2. It reminds me of the arguments we had in GW1, where everyone insisted on 15%^50% (which barely gave you more DPS compared to 14%^50%) if you run with THEIR group. It is the same thing here. More squishiness but less defense – I prefer a little extra defense – that way I can dodge when needed to save myself and my group.

If you can’t dodge out of circles then nothing will help you. Too many people in game just stand and DPS, which is funny and sad to see.

They are trying to make the game harder (as so many saw this game as a kitten game). Now that they are making it harder, people are complaining that they can’t run the same builds? Of course not silly! Learn to evolve or perish like a dinosaurs.

If we do get into Maguuma Jungle more, in LS2, I hope we see more of the creatures from GW1 there. That will really be interesting…….

Mesket.5728:

data.4093:

You want dps/tank/heal…this game was advertised as not having a trinity. Why are you playing?

No I don’t want that. I didn’t say it or imply it. Your reading comprehension need some improvement.

Please, make the effort of expaaaanding your mind just a little bit beyond the trinity. There are thousands of other roles they could come up with besides tank/heal. Many other games did it before successfully. Stop being stuck in the trinity or nothing mentality.

If you want to be a condescending d—bag then so be it. My point still stands, YOU want specific roles and this game was advertised as NOT having them. And no there are not thousannnnnnddddsssss of roles they could create.

maha.7902:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m in agreement with others that simply nerfing berserker gear is not the answer. I don’t agree that the change to ferocity ‘did nothing’ or is ‘useless’ though. It was simply the first step in a long list of things that needed to be done in order to balance the various available roles to make support and cc more desirable.

I think we’re starting to see some of the further changes, although I don’t think their implementations are perfect. The amount of things no longer reflect able might require a bit of tweaking, for example.

support is already extremely desirable. CC has niche uses but when used, it can be used very effectively. what is the problem here?

support is only ‘extremely desirable’ in that you can provide it adequately while still running zerkers. that’s not precisely what im talking about.

one of the main issues with zerkers being the king of all sets is simply due to the fact that you can max your dps while still fulfilling the needs for support and cc without specing for it. thats not precisely how it should work, and what causes the majority of the issue at hand. in instances where you need support, you should need someone that is specced that way, or at least a couple of hybrids. the roles are not balanced in their need of having someone specced for it.

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

Nerfing zerker won’t solve any problems. They need to revamp encounters to make better use of the other game mechanics. Defiant needs an overhaul because it renders CC builds useless. Mob attack patterns need an overhaul because right now, dodging is the only mitigation you need. Mob attacks need to be designed in such a way that defensive stats are utilized to mitigate them. For example, make mobs have a fast “autoattack” of some sort. Healing power with small chained heals and regen would mitigate those. some sort of aggro mechanics tied to toughness/vitality should be considered.

and why should it not work that way besides “I said so”?

this partially exists in the game already anyway, phalanx warriors take advantage of the 30% boon duration in tactics and 45% might duration from strength runes so that their phalanx might procs last longer and you can maintain 20-25 might on a party at the loss of around ~25% of your DPS versus a full DPS warrior build because of your traiting making you lose a bunch of damage.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

Pray tell what kind of build this is on what profession. Im interested now. It seems like an OMNI GODLIKE build to bring to spvp.

projectcedric.6951:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

Pray tell what kind of build this is on what profession. Im interested now. It seems like an OMNI GODLIKE build to bring to spvp.

He’s referring to something like a zerker guard who can still apply reflect wall, aegis, and protection. Or a zerk mesmer who can perma reflect (assuming the kitten warden doesn’t bug out). These builds can be great in dungeons. Spvp is a different story.

data.4093:

Mesket.5728:

data.4093:

You want dps/tank/heal…this game was advertised as not having a trinity. Why are you playing?

No I don’t want that. I didn’t say it or imply it. Your reading comprehension need some improvement.

Please, make the effort of expaaaanding your mind just a little bit beyond the trinity. There are thousands of other roles they could come up with besides tank/heal. Many other games did it before successfully. Stop being stuck in the trinity or nothing mentality.

If you want to be a condescending kitten then so be it. My point still stands, YOU want specific roles and this game was advertised as NOT having them. And no there are not thousannnnnnddddsssss of roles they could create.

I’ll give you just one tiny example of how bad the game was designed: The game advertised no trinity, ok? although we only had stats for 3 things initially: DPS, tank and heal. This is not me saying I want this, it is a fact that the game was implemented this way; stats for tank, heal and dps with no such trinity. Probably bad communication between different offices, who knows; but it was plain bad. Anet on their manifesto promoted the roles of support and control, but… where is the gear for such roles? Where is the stat that increases not the duration but the effect of my boons? How can I make my control skill more effective? How do I specialize, gear-wise, in those roles? Why do we have like a dozen of different stat combos when only 3 are needed? It is a matter of concept. Forget for a second what’s most effect in a dungeon today. Do you really think they wasted time, money, resources, designing a dozen different sets for gear knowing that only 1 will be used by the vast majority of players? Of course not. They did it wrong. Simple as that. Content is bad and it can be trivialized by using only one set of gear and only one tactic (stacking). I just hope for the sake of the game, they can improve this and fix their design so all stats are useful, probably not the stats we have today though.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

maha.7902:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m in agreement with others that simply nerfing berserker gear is not the answer. I don’t agree that the change to ferocity ‘did nothing’ or is ‘useless’ though. It was simply the first step in a long list of things that needed to be done in order to balance the various available roles to make support and cc more desirable.

I think we’re starting to see some of the further changes, although I don’t think their implementations are perfect. The amount of things no longer reflect able might require a bit of tweaking, for example.

support is already extremely desirable. CC has niche uses but when used, it can be used very effectively. what is the problem here?

support is only ‘extremely desirable’ in that you can provide it adequately while still running zerkers. that’s not precisely what im talking about.

one of the main issues with zerkers being the king of all sets is simply due to the fact that you can max your dps while still fulfilling the needs for support and cc without specing for it. thats not precisely how it should work, and what causes the majority of the issue at hand. in instances where you need support, you should need someone that is specced that way, or at least a couple of hybrids. the roles are not balanced in their need of having someone specced for it.

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

You seem to get it right! Hopefully more players will start thinking this way.

Xenon.4537:

projectcedric.6951:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

Pray tell what kind of build this is on what profession. Im interested now. It seems like an OMNI GODLIKE build to bring to spvp.

He’s referring to something like a zerker guard who can still apply reflect wall, aegis, and protection. Or a zerk mesmer who can perma reflect (assuming the kitten warden doesn’t bug out). These builds can be great in dungeons. Spvp is a different story.

Hmmm… are those efficient builds when it comes to dps? They sound very karate-middle to me.

projectcedric.6951:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

Pray tell what kind of build this is on what profession. Im interested now. It seems like an OMNI GODLIKE build to bring to spvp.

i mention dungeons as an example…. which is pve… cause i was referring to pve

and you start talking about spvp… we have a bit of a disconnect here

yes, in spvp things are very different. you typically dont have as many people playing glass there as you have running bunkers or conditions or support. it’s not the same environment as pve where “zerker dps is king, everything else need not apply”, and (outside the slight issue with conditions) is (a bit) better balanced than the pve aspect of the game.

Fenrir.3609:

Not this kitten again…

1. Even if you nerf zerk into oblivion something will always be the “meta” and people will look to utilize that.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

The PURPOSE for BALANCING is to make sure there ISN’T A META.

Make everything as efficient as everything else and be done with it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

support is only ‘extremely desirable’ in that you can provide it adequately while still running zerkers. that’s not precisely what im talking about.

one of the main issues with zerkers being the king of all sets is simply due to the fact that you can max your dps while still fulfilling the needs for support and cc without specing for it. thats not precisely how it should work, and what causes the majority of the issue at hand. in instances where you need support, you should need someone that is specced that way, or at least a couple of hybrids. the roles are not balanced in their need of having someone specced for it.

you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.

Not totally true. Support is extremely desirable, but there no gear stats that improve support, meaning that nothing in the gear you choose, will help you support better. But, you improve your support from Trait, Runes, Sigils, etc and you see quick if someone don’t get the meta, because most meta have a high amount of support in their build. Just think a second. When you just a composition for you group, what are you looking at? DPS only? If that was the case, then you would choose 5 elementalist. But not. You say, oh i want a warrior because of FGJ, Banner, EA. I want a guardian for blind, aegis, reflect. I want a thief for stealth, vulnerability, blind. I want a ranger for spotter, frost spirit and reflect. I want a Mesmer for Time Wrap, portal, reflect, pull. Even Ele are there for support too with might and fury. Every profession can do dmg and should concentrate a good deal into that. But that’s the support that give a identity to each profession. That’s a BIG part of all those meta, but a great deal of people just forget or just don’t know about that. Meta = DPS only. Meta = the best builds the community can come out with.

Now, you can push that further. Anet can give us more meaning in Condition damage so that’s not staying useless in PvE like it is now (with some exception). They can create armor and weapons stats that can upgrade your support capability like you can do with runes, trait and sigil right now. They can make CC more meaninfull and engaging (since I my opinion, they seem to figure out that CC was too powerful against bosses at the end of the production and simply put Defiant to fix the situation, destroying a big part of CC with that). But even with all that. DPS will still be a major part of the game and should stay the same. Toughness and vitality should still be a stats for learning or for player less good. Healing power shouldn’t overpowered to make a Healer possible in the game. Give more diversity for some meaningful support, cc, condition build, but don’t nerf zerk just because you hate it.