Guild Wars 2

First of all i really liked the game, so what i will say is to make the game better.
Well, just like the most of you, i didnt like that post.

But at least was good to realise two things:

1 – Arenanet knows that their game has no endgame and will die if they dont to something;

2 – For sure they are already thinking about something to save the game.

I would love to see a little more of the trinity, pve is just a mess and button smashing.
Pvp lacks so much of skills ( few skills and most of then are really a crap ). Basically is a button smashing too.

We need a better PVP too, with rewards and gear progression ( yes, that is what “hold” the players, like it or not).

And hurts to say that, but they should look at wow´s endgame… And take somethings from there…

Drake, this is a new low even for you, you are complaining apbout endgame you have not experienced, thats like a character in wow who has only reached northrend complaining about cataclysm raids.

Not saying i dont think tings could be made harder, but, well, that post just seams a tadge premature on your part.

RogueRegault.2987:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Bobby.2918:

I say give it time. Everyone and their dog is on GW2 right now so even the high numbers of enemies a DE can manage can’t defeat a player swarm. Things will slow down and DEs might surprise you. I did one on the snowy right side of Gendarren Fields and there were only three of us. We fought like lions and ultimately lost.

Except it’s supposed to be able to scale with those incredible numbers. I’m perfectly happy doing an event with 50 random people, I just don’t want the event to fall over entirely because we’re 50 random people.

The problem is when you start getting scaling like the Fire Elemental in Metrica Province or the Champions scattered throughout Queensdale and Kessex Hills. Bosses made “hard” by their hitpoints scaling through the roof, and their damage scaling such that even their basic attacks down people in one hit.

If they’re willing to cripple control classes like thieves with the Unshakable buff, maybe they should introduce some form of AoE resistance for mobs in zerged events.

Mobs need to spread out more and have additonal levels as more players join, someone in another thread suggested cetaurs for example could start using catapults in assaults for instance if there are lots of players.

Rift does it well, some of the newer rifts actually require tactics to down, not overly complex, but requiring coordindinaton.

The asura fire elemetal is a great example of a good boss for goups with good scaling. The boss is easy to kill, but the addsneed controling, so the group has to deal wiht them, they usually spread out sl aoe fest does not work, done right its easy, done wrong its a corpse pile on the bridge!

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you have to seek for the gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out, the game is all about gears tier chasing all the time (thats why the word “Gear Treadmills” comes from). I have enlightened before during playing the traditional online games, that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Are you HONESTLY saying that gear in this game doesn’t matter? Every piece of new gear I equip is because it has a stat upgrade compared to my previous gear.

Anyone that thinks gear doesn’t matter in the game should strip all of their precious valuables and play the game naked.

GEAR MATTERS IN GW2.

stayBlind.7849:

Try out the dungeons if you are looking for challenge.

If you are tired of zergs, roll on a less populated server.

Doesn’t it cost RL currency to ‘roll on’ a less populated server?

Azzras.8041:

stayBlind.7849:

Try out the dungeons if you are looking for challenge.

If you are tired of zergs, roll on a less populated server.

Doesn’t it cost RL currency to ‘roll on’ a less populated server?

It’s temporarily free until populations stabilise. After that you’ll be able to guest on other servers and do anything there except WvW, or pay to transfer fully.

MistaMike.7356:

WoW has some very interesting PVE bosses which you could look at for inspiration.

Outdoor bosses where the strategy for killing them isn’t spelled out (so that players would have to trial and error how to kill them) would go a long long way to adding the level of “raid-boss depth” that players of WoW are used to.

I’ve never, in my 4 years of playing WoW, seen the bosses as interesting or remotely challenging. Maybe because of the research needed by tanks and healers to do their part which made raids and dungeons easy? I’ve always ran stuff smoothly with others in my guild. To be honest it was kind of boring.

Anyways, GW2 is kind of suffering from the same thing with it’s world bosses. They usually always get knocked into a corner then everyone just wails away on it. There’s not much to dodge that I can tell unless you’re trying to revive someone then the boss immediately targets you if you’re close. IDK, I love this game alot but the world bosses need to be more versatile. Maybe allowing players to stun and knockdown bosses was too good of an idea that it made them easy.

Azzras.8041:

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you have to seek for the gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out, the game is all about gears tier chasing all the time (thats why the word “Gear Treadmills” comes from). I have enlightened before during playing the traditional online games, that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Are you HONESTLY saying that gear in this game doesn’t matter? Every piece of new gear I equip is because it has a stat upgrade compared to my previous gear.

Anyone that thinks gear doesn’t matter in the game should strip all of their precious valuables and play the game naked.

GEAR MATTERS IN GW2.

Gear does matter, but not like in other MMOs. Gear in GW2 is like a supplement to your skills where in other MMOs it solely defined how long you’d last in a PvP match.

For the ‘zerg DE’ problem. Would capping the population for the server for that zone and then makeing more versions of it ‘fix’ the problem?

That way there could never be ‘too’ many people for a DE?

Been raiding in That Other Game since vanilla. Love this game.

I was pretty excited about the idea of getting rid of the tank/healer/dps paradigm at first, but I’m starting to think removing it makes boss fights VERY difficult to design in an interesting way.

The lack of healers doesn’t matter as much in my thinking as the lack of a coherent threat mechanic. A lot of fun, challenging boss fights in Other Games have mechanics that require controlling the positioning of the boss. Aggro in this game seems to depend on many things, but it is functionally “random” in the middle of an encounter.

The bosses also don’t telegraph abilities very well at all. This could be because the spell effects are obscuring anything useful, but even solo trash mobs will suddenly knock me down with no indication that it is coming. This is unfortunate, because on the PvP side you can usually tell from an animation that you should dodge or interrupt. The only thing I usually see in a PvE boss fight is maybe a red circle on the ground, and sometimes the damage hits me as soon as the circle paints. I’m a Guardian with a lot of points in toughness and vit. No glass cannon, but a lot of boss strikes will one or two shot me with no indication if they are incoming. A more interesting mechanic would be “Boss telegraphs big hit” then I can avoid much or most of the damage by dodging or popping a block cooldown. I love the idea of “Guard” on my mace but honestly never know when to use it due to bad ability telegraphing in PvE. The reason this feels like World of Kitecraft sometimes is because frequently you have no idea WTF the boss will do and kiting is the only option. The fact that kiting is so successful on so many encounters is also kind of sad.

I’ll be honest. It feels like a lot of boss fights are just Zen. I’m flying down the trench in the Death Star waiting for The Force to tell me to hit my cooldown.

The world encounters have major scaling problems. This is fixable.

tl;dr

Bosses need some work. Scaling in world encounters need a lot of work. Seems like Anet is still trying to figure out how to write interesting PvE fights without tanks or a predictable threat mechanic.

“There is no difficult endgame in GW2. Period. If you believe otherwise, you must have a blindfold on…What I want is the difficulty of raiding, without any of the nonsense that comes with a raiding guild. None of the roster management, the drama, the stress, the time commitments… none of that.”

“…I also haven’t bothered with dungeons yet, because I’m taking my sweet time with this game”

There’s your problem right there. Go try explore mode on Catacombs, then come back and tell me the game is lacking a challenge, or the feeling of raids. Our guild ran through a few dungeons and explore modes recently and our experience has been equivalent to a 5-man raid. These push party coordination to their limits by pitting you against demi-gods, at least that’s how it seems.

There is no reimagining here, there is just fail.

Honestly going back to WoW, its better anyway

Everyone is playing dumb DPS builds at the moment.

I am having a blast playing Dungeons with groups with varied classes and builds.
Went back and did some lower level Dungeons a few times last night and had a blast !

I can agree that PvE and WvW are pure Zerging at the moment but that will change. Especially in WvW as people start to buy P/V/T armor sets and all the crit build madness dies out.

Cheers and Have fun !

As far as I can tell from years of WoW raiding experience I only found things difficult if there was a lot of management required per individual in order to not fall behind, not make your group suffering from your failure and generally when failure meant a lot of anger in raidchat directed at you. What I am referring to is that pressure, ambition and required responsibility as well as discipline are what formed the difficulty in endgame content which was declared as challenging.

I am fine if the challenge is reserved to 5-man dungeons really. I don’t see how DEs will ever replace raids at all without enforcing attendance. Like anyone can join at any point and/or drop out equally at any time and even come back later still with some reward at the moment. There is no organization behind, no individualized responsibilities.

DirtyHoudini.2917:

nerva.7940:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

So I just read that article, and I’m kind of shocked.

dude, the whole point of the article was that Orr ISNT the entire endgame. once u get to Orr and finish it, u move on to the rest of the world (lower level zones) and complete the content youve missed. or you level crafting. or explore.

Complete the content you missed, so what does that entail? Doing all the heart quests and getting barley any money? Farming Karma from any DE you can find to get your exotic gear? Farming your crafting up to create your gear? Explore the whole map, get all the WP’s, all the PoI’s – Vistas to get what, an achievement unlocked? You don’t get anything for it, there isn’t any real progression after you get your gear because gear is the only thing that actually effects your character and how he plays. You don’t do more damage by unlocking the whole map, you do however get a nice little plaque on your login screen and get to see fractions that = 1

After 80 there is no character progression at all

Raiding isn’t progression either, it’s an endless treadmill of carrot on a stick. I’ve raided 40, 25, 10 man raids. I’ve run raid guilds for years, and frankly I am immensely happy to see that this game just has dungeons with hard modes. And no real carrot on a stick aside from just completing what is there. You know why? So you can finish for awhile and go do something else. Be it another character, or another game, until fresh content comes out. Really, I am fine with that. Or just be a total completest and do everything in the game that you can, and then see what’s happening at that point.

If you want tiered raiding, simply, this isn’t your game. Personally I find it to be a huge breath of fresh air.. and I’ll fully admit, I had NO intention of playing this game, tried it anyway, and was very surprised and happy with what I found.

There is no challenge in this game, if you want to look at challenge,
check out FFXI,
it has the officially hardest boss to beat, 36 people fighting it for 18 hours and had to stop due to real life exhaustion, the developer had to nerf the boss for it to be doable,
There is nothing difficult here, crafting is a joke and so are the quests, dynamic events do not punish you for failing, which they should.

Erasculio.2914:

. Someone at GW2Guru claimed that a dynamic event should become more difficult the more it has been successful, which IMO is a great idea. So the “Defend the village from centaurs” event would be easy… The first time. The third time players manage to succeed when doing it, the next attack would be so big that it would be almost impossible for players to win, “forcing” the world to change so players actually see how dynamic the events can be.

This is brilliant! it seems so trivial too, but yet brilliant. This would give an activity for guilds to do in the endgame, and they could sweeten the deal by having greater amounts of loot from chests.* I could imagine events being marked with level of difficulty, maybe a system of one to X stars. Every time an event is completed it adds a new star. Every failure of the event would remove a star. The only downside to this are new players coming across events might be treated to a more than difficult encounter, but when that event branches into its next phase they can pick it up there. Another downside is that it might create bordom for those seeking a challenge as they have to sit around in the same spot increasing the difficulty.

I’m not sure if it is the case or not, since I’ve never seen an event fail, but do you get some reward just for participating even if it does fail? That might also need addressing if it isn’t the case, as there should be some reward even if failing.

• Note: Not more powerful, as I do think we should abandon gear optimization as necessary requirement for participation

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, what does “Zerg” mean?

Could you give some examples of how to make things more challenging?

You know, I wonder how many people use the term “zerg”, understand what it means (accomplishing something with sheer force of overwhelming numbers) but don’t have the first clue where the term originated?

Here’s the story. A lot probably already know that Zerg is one of the playable races in Starcraft and Starcraft 2, but not sure what that has to do with the term. In the early days of Starcraft, one of the most widely used tactics in PvP was to play as Zerg, make a few zergling units (basic melee attack unit- somewhat weak, but could be made twice as fast as other race’s basic units, because each egg produced 2 zerglings, allowing you to make up to 6 zerglings at a time), and destroy your opponent’s base before he could really get started; basically, while he had only a very limited number of non-worker units. I don’t know the exact figures, but it was probably something like a 4 to 1 advantage over the time it took to make marines.

Ironically, it wasn’t necessarily a large number of zerglings- I’ve heard of matches being won with as few as 6. It was really just the fact they you could get a few of them, just enough, to beat your opponent before they could even get two combat units to defend with.

“…if you want to look at challenge,
check out FFXI,
it has the officially hardest boss to beat, 36 people fighting it for 18 hours…”

I’m pretty sure those that were there when they took down The Sleeper in EverQuest will beg to differ….

How long did it take them for the Sleeper? Since the people in FFXI actually had to stop the fight cause of RL exhaustion. But please tell me how long it took them, despite that is not the issue here, the issue is that GW2 is TOO EASY, older games like EQ and FFXI presented more challenges.
Are people really so non persistent that they give up on a challenge if it proves to difficult is that the reason why ArenaNet delivered everything to their a..es?

I have to say I agree with the OP.

I love this game and it is “fun” I will give it that and it looks wonderful. I also love the design and the mechanics BUT my real issue with this game is the challenge.

I don’t feel challenged at all with any of the content save for explorer mode AC of all places.

Dragons? honestly it is just a mindless zerg. Kill wall, move in do damage, kill wall, move in do damage etc. There really is no reason to die and if you do? there are 30 other people there and you get rezzed instantly.

Dynamic Events? Yeah they are fun, but I never felt like “Man this is SO difficult! we did it!!!! Yes!!!”

My memory drifts back to vanilla WoW where we had fought with ragnaros for weeks and we got further each week and then one week we actually downed him and were ALL screaming like little school girls on Vent – It was a momentous event and we remembered that fight to this day. Sadly I have been pushed hard enough in this game to feel like that.

This content is fun, but I feel like the difficulty is just WAY low on just about the whole game.

Exactly, but the problem is how can we present this issue to ArenaNet, what are they actually prepared to change to satisfy customers like us?

No one responded, so I’ll suggest it again. Can’t they just make multiple versions of the same ‘zone’. Then there will never be too many people for a DE. Will make DE’s more difficult due to less folks.

That is how Besieged worked in FFXI, a game that is 11 years old. Besieged kept getting tougher until the monsters were beaten, once they were beaten it reset, steadily growing in difficulty.

Razamis.1062:

There is no reimagining here, there is just fail.

Honestly going back to WoW, its better anyway

Bai!

Have fun sitting in yer raids, spamming 2,2,1!

Also, ex WoW players. This will not be like WoW. Ever. You want difficulty in an MMO? Good luck with that. Even WoW’s raid difficulty is easy-mode.

If you people aren’t challenged, go find your equal on the battlefield. A challenge shouldn’t necessarily require hours of time. I think those desiring overly lengthy challenges are a very small minority. If a challenge to you strictly comes from PvE, take your armor off and equip a crappy weapon.

The zergs will ease up. Populations are still high right now. It will settle down eventually…especially when the next big name game comes out and the content locusts swarm to a new destination.

X The Manimal.5293:

Azzras.8041:

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you have to seek for the gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out, the game is all about gears tier chasing all the time (thats why the word “Gear Treadmills” comes from). I have enlightened before during playing the traditional online games, that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Are you HONESTLY saying that gear in this game doesn’t matter? Every piece of new gear I equip is because it has a stat upgrade compared to my previous gear.

Anyone that thinks gear doesn’t matter in the game should strip all of their precious valuables and play the game naked.

GEAR MATTERS IN GW2.

Gear does matter, but not like in other MMOs. Gear in GW2 is like a supplement to your skills where in other MMOs it solely defined how long you’d last in a PvP match.

Gear in GW2 is almost exactly like other MMOs. Better stats = better performance.
The main difference is that you have more freedom to choose what stats you want to stack.

Gear progression exists in GW2. There is a carrot on a stick when it comes to gear.

Speaking of Gear, there’s a hugh lack of it, I keep wearing the same gear throught lv.1-20, no real variety…
the guns are the same ( engineer )

Basen.8506:

Speaking of Gear, there’s a hugh lack of it, I keep wearing the same gear throught lv.1-20, no real variety…
the guns are the same ( engineer )

Try going to a different area. Gear drops are different depending on if you are in human or charr or asura area and so on. I find most stuff looks very different. If you just keep killing the same bandits and centaurs over and over you won’t get much variety

I was checking the TP, does that not have all the gear on it ?

I agree with the OP. I think more games need endgame content like WoW. What am I suppose to do once I beat Seth in Street Fighter 4. There are no more levels, no more gear progression. WTF? I think SF4 needs to up the level cap, introduce more raid content. What does Capcom think I want to do? play the early fights again. Hell no, I just beat Seth man I’m badkitten Screw playing online that’s just not my thing. Seriusly start a new game, that’s just absurd. SF4 needs more content after Seth or it’s going to have replay-ability issues. I just might not be able play SF4 again after this.

Azzras.8041:

Gear in GW2 is almost exactly like other MMOs. Better stats = better performance.
The main difference is that you have more freedom to choose what stats you want to stack.

Gear progression exists in GW2. There is a carrot on a stick when it comes to gear.

Difference with GW2 compared to other games is once you get to 80 and get exotic gear. Once you get that it just depends what kind of stats you want and everything else is just visual and not really more “powerful”. So carrot is mainly just to look cool rather then to make content easier.

Spryt.8012:

Azzras.8041:

Gear in GW2 is almost exactly like other MMOs. Better stats = better performance.
The main difference is that you have more freedom to choose what stats you want to stack.

Gear progression exists in GW2. There is a carrot on a stick when it comes to gear.

Difference with GW2 compared to other games is once you get to 80 and get exotic gear. Once you get that it just depends what kind of stats you want and everything else is just visual and not really more “powerful”. So carrot is mainly just to look cool rather then to make content easier.

Until they release new gear with better stats and visuals…

Basen.8506:

I was checking the TP, does that not have all the gear on it ?

Kind of depends what people are selling. But yes I guess it could potentially have everything on it. Also you won’t see huge differences in gear types at lvl 1-20. Take a look at the higher level gear or cultural stuff.

Azzras.8041:

Spryt.8012:

Azzras.8041:

Gear in GW2 is almost exactly like other MMOs. Better stats = better performance.
The main difference is that you have more freedom to choose what stats you want to stack.

Gear progression exists in GW2. There is a carrot on a stick when it comes to gear.

Difference with GW2 compared to other games is once you get to 80 and get exotic gear. Once you get that it just depends what kind of stats you want and everything else is just visual and not really more “powerful”. So carrot is mainly just to look cool rather then to make content easier.

Until they release new gear with better stats and visuals…

If they do that. Don’t think they did that in GW1 and they had lots of expansions. Visuals of course but that is kind of optional.

I never understood the concept of a PvE encounter being considered “difficult or challenging.” It is a static encounter. It is a mob that has AI that is programmed to do a scripted routine. It usually only takes a small amount of time into a fight to determine what you need to do, and then you just repeat that process every time you fight it. Is doing that over and over again really a challenge for some of you?

Also, I noticed some of you completely disregard what Amadeuz.4617 was saying. The concept of “there is no way to progress you character at level 80” is the wrong way to view this game. Do you become increasingly more powerful? No, that is not the purpose of the game. You keep progressing your characters story by completing other zones, playing WvWvW to increase your kill count/get achievements, or play sPvP and increase your rank there.

The paradigm of getting better gear by repeatedly doing the same thing over and over and over again, thus making your character more powerful, is a broken mechanic. Character progression in this game is done through the story/world experience, not through the gear. Your character does not become increasingly powerful the more you play, but you continually get a new play experience.

Also, for those of you who are complaining about challenging content, I would suggest giving WvWvW or sPvP a try. In those zones you fight people. I know the fights are non-scripted which may essentially make it impossible for some of you, but that is how you become better. Learn to handle unexpected situations.

Serp.3264:

I never understood the concept of a PvE encounter being considered “difficult or challenging.” It is a static encounter. It is a mob that has AI that is programmed to do a scripted routine. It usually only takes a small amount of time into a fight to determine what you need to do, and then you just repeat that process every time you fight it. Is doing that over and over again really a challenge for some of you?

Also, I noticed some of you completely disregard what Amadeuz.4617 was saying. The concept of “there is no way to progress you character at level 80” is the wrong way to view this game. Do you become increasingly more powerful? No, that is not the purpose of the game. You keep progressing your characters story by completing other zones, playing WvWvW to increase your kill count/get achievements, or play sPvP and increase your rank there.

The paradigm of getting better gear by repeatedly doing the same thing over and over and over again, thus making your character more powerful, is a broken mechanic. Character progression in this game is done through the story/world experience, not through the gear. Your character does not become increasingly powerful the more you play, but you continually get a new play experience.

Also, for those of you who are complaining about challenging content, I would suggest giving WvWvW or sPvP a try. In those zones you fight people. I know the fights are non-scripted which may essentially make it impossible for some of you, but that is how you become better. Learn to handle unexpected situations.

Yet another apologist excuse.

I’m 99% map done (only skill bugs which still exist even after todays patch, and 3 rea;m v realm points left)

I can PvP in World of Warcraft
I can world PvP in World of Warcraft (note, I don’t currently play, but I am making a point.)
I can explore in world of warcraft (and a much larger world due to time.)
I can experiance a story in World of Warcraft, just because there isnt a cutscene mechanic doesn’t change the fact.

And yet, with all that, I can still have a rich fuffiling well thought out dungeon-crawling experiance.

In Guild Wars 2 I cannot, because it is so poorly thought out.

WoW players are used to paying a subscription… they figure if they are paying for it, it must be entertaining.

As for those who have the crystal ball into Arena.net’s head… I’m glad you already know what is in store for us in the coming months. I’m sure Arena.net would love to hear you post about your predictions as to just what they plan to release and when. Just to make it clear, that you know what your stating is true and not something you made up just to justify your position.

If you launch WoW right this very second… what is going on there that hasn’t been going on for the last 6 months? Sans the new talent trees… you know the umpteeth reworking of the talent trees to date? Are the preponderance of players all standing around in Orgrimmar or Stormwind? Will everyone be level 90 by October 1st?

I don’t have to play that game to know what’s going on in it. In fact, you don’t either… it’s pretty obvious. And yet, they still play that game… as mind boggling as it is.

Don’t judge GW2 harshly because your preferred game failed you and you are looking for a justification to continue playing it. If GW2 is not for you, it’s not for you. We don’t need to know why you’re going back to WoW or any other game…

Birdy.4816:

Yet another apologist excuse.

I’m 99% map done (only skill bugs which still exist even after todays patch, and 3 rea;m v realm points left)

I can PvP in World of Warcraft
I can world PvP in World of Warcraft (note, I don’t currently play, but I am making a point.)
I can explore in world of warcraft (and a much larger world due to time.)
I can experiance a story in World of Warcraft, just because there isnt a cutscene mechanic doesn’t change the fact.

And yet, with all that, I can still have a rich fuffiling well thought out dungeon-crawling experiance.

In Guild Wars 2 I cannot, because it is so poorly thought out.

Sounds like you might like World of Warcraft then. I suggest trying it out.

In all seriousness though, I am not being an apologist. The PvP dynamics in these two games are completely different. This game has focused more on the PvP dynamics with its release. WoW has years worth of time under its belt.

My point was there is a ton to do. It doesn’t necessarily have to include gear rewards for it to be an enjoyable experience.

Here’s my problem with the article:

They are trying to convince gamers that GW2 has endgame, because endgame is part of the leveling experience. This is the same thing Bioware tried to do with SWTOR. Good luck with that.

Gamers know what endgame is. They know what type of content they expect at level 80, and trying to “re-program” players to some other concept is not going to work. I’m disappointed that Arenanet thinks the current endgame is sufficient. Its not. I don’t mind, I’m not in a huge hurry, but Arenanet needs to understand that players will expect more.

Here’s the MORE they need:

1) More dungeons/raids containing content that is challenging, and has some motivating factor (reason to run them). Progression, progression, progression.

2) More reasons to WvW and/or sPvP. Give us realm ranks, extra trait points for participating in WvW, skill points, an extra ability to work towards, but something we really care about. Something that matters.

In summary, we players already know what we expect the endgame to be, so don’t give us some B.S. about some “re-imagined” endgame, and expect us to buy into it.

Finally, nice work Arenanet, on the leveling process, zone designs & crafting systems. <3 the game so far (even if WvW kinda sucks).

Serp.3264:

I never understood the concept of a PvE encounter being considered “difficult or challenging.” It is a static encounter. It is a mob that has AI that is programmed to do a scripted routine. It usually only takes a small amount of time into a fight to determine what you need to do, and then you just repeat that process every time you fight it. Is doing that over and over again really a challenge for some of you?

Also, I noticed some of you completely disregard what Amadeuz.4617 was saying. The concept of “there is no way to progress you character at level 80” is the wrong way to view this game. Do you become increasingly more powerful? No, that is not the purpose of the game. You keep progressing your characters story by completing other zones, playing WvWvW to increase your kill count/get achievements, or play sPvP and increase your rank there.

The paradigm of getting better gear by repeatedly doing the same thing over and over and over again, thus making your character more powerful, is a broken mechanic. Character progression in this game is done through the story/world experience, not through the gear. Your character does not become increasingly powerful the more you play, but you continually get a new play experience.

Also, for those of you who are complaining about challenging content, I would suggest giving WvWvW or sPvP a try. In those zones you fight people. I know the fights are non-scripted which may essentially make it impossible for some of you, but that is how you become better. Learn to handle unexpected situations.

So you’re saying the only endgame for cap level players is PvP when a majority of the game is PvE?

Dedish.7923:

Not trolling stating a fact

So opinions are facts?

pmiles.3489:

WoW players are used to paying a subscription… they figure if they are paying for it, it must be entertaining.

As for those who have the crystal ball into Arena.net’s head… I’m glad you already know what is in store for us in the coming months. I’m sure Arena.net would love to hear you post about your predictions as to just what they plan to release and when. Just to make it clear, that you know what your stating is true and not something you made up just to justify your position.

If you launch WoW right this very second… what is going on there that hasn’t been going on for the last 6 months? Sans the new talent trees… you know the umpteeth reworking of the talent trees to date? Are the preponderance of players all standing around in Orgrimmar or Stormwind? Will everyone be level 90 by October 1st?

I don’t have to play that game to know what’s going on in it. In fact, you don’t either… it’s pretty obvious. And yet, they still play that game… as mind boggling as it is.

Don’t judge GW2 harshly because your preferred game failed you and you are looking for a justification to continue playing it. If GW2 is not for you, it’s not for you. We don’t need to know why you’re going back to WoW or any other game…

Beyond your mindless defence (when there is millions of you on forums like this instead of playing the game, responding to these topics because they strike a nerve with you and you too yourself know you will quit eventually for similar reasons but the rose tinted goggles are still here protecting you for now.

Did you ever stop to think, that the suggestions made by this people would make this MMO pretty much near PERFECT in this genre?

How can anyone deny that the current end-game is highly flawwed? this game does everything else so well if it went the whole hog and made a fantastic dungeon-crawl for the PvE crowd whos to say how far this game can go?

I Don’t have a crystal ball, im spelling out the obvious, its called heinsight based on watching other mmos fail so badly.

PvE is VITAL to an MMO’s success even this one.

If Arena-net have plans, instead of making stupid articles telling us what “MINOR” content we can do once we hit 80 that we mostly have already done, why don’t they come out and say:

“Hey, we hear you PvE lovers, our PvE Team is slaving hard away to rebalance loot tables, make more engaging encounters, make HEAVY adjustments to the token grind and we aim to eventually release 10-15 man content as we know alot of people really love this instead of 5 mans for eternity when even Guild Wars 1 had 8.”

“We have spent the last few years creating a great journey and PvP system, now that it is done, we wish to make an end-game PvE experiance that rivals the best such as world of warcraft”

That would please ALOT of people.

Azzras.8041:

So you’re saying the only endgame for cap level players is PvP when a majority of the game is PvE?

That isn’t what I said at all. You are thinking about “endgame” wrong. For a cap level player, you can work on your crafting skills, you can explore the maps (hearts, points of interest, vistas, etc), you can do all of the dungeons, you can work on achievements, etc. If you have completed all of that, great, try another class out! You don’t need to be level 80 to complete a large majority of the content in this game. That is the beauty of it.

The whole concept of endgame being some big task that you repeat over and over again for gear is something that GW2 has been trying to get away from. You should be doing things in a progression.

Birdy.4816:

PvE is VITAL to an MMO’s success even this one.

If Arena-net have plans, instead of making stupid articles telling us what “MINOR” content we can do once we hit 80 that we mostly have already done, why don’t they come out and say:

“Hey, we hear you PvE lovers, our PvE Team is slaving hard away to rebalance loot tables, make more engaging encounters, make HEAVY adjustments to the token grind and we aim to eventually release 10-15 man content as we know alot of people really love this instead of 5 mans for eternity when even Guild Wars 1 had 8.”

“We have spent the last few years creating a great journey and PvP system, now that it is done, we wish to make an end-game PvE experiance that rivals the best such as world of warcraft”

That would please ALOT of people.

I disagree that PvE is vital to an MMO being successful. I assume this is because we have differing opinions on what is considered successful. For an MMO to be successful, it does not need to be the largest MMO in history. It doesn’t need to have the most active subscriptions. All it really needs to do is have a dedicated playerbase that enjoys the game.

EDIT: I just wanted to point out as well, this game isn’t WoW. It was never intended to be WoW. It is not attempting to be like WoW. Many WoW fans consider that game to be one of the best MMOs ever built. However, there is also another spectrum of players who feel that the WoW way of doing MMOs is severely flawed and needs to be redone. The people who made GW2 clearly agree, based on completely moving away from the gear grind that so many games have become.

Serp.3264:

Azzras.8041:

So you’re saying the only endgame for cap level players is PvP when a majority of the game is PvE?

That isn’t what I said at all. You are thinking about “endgame” wrong. For a cap level player, you can work on your crafting skills, you can explore the maps (hearts, points of interest, vistas, etc), you can do all of the dungeons, you can work on achievements, etc. If you have completed all of that, great, try another class out! You don’t need to be level 80 to complete a large majority of the content in this game. That is the beauty of it.

The whole concept of endgame being some big task that you repeat over and over again for gear is something that GW2 has been trying to get away from. You should be doing things in a progression.

No it hasn,t theyve said they want the whole game to be like end-game, only ironically it isn’t because the end-game is non-existant for PvE players (notice how i say PvE players, not crafters or achievement gatherers)

The one major element is the dungeon crawl, the good, indepthful mechanics of later bosses, the bigger community guild raids ect.

All not present. and are typically the only things that stick for a long time.

You honestly trying to tell use that doing little minor asthetic things is worth it compared to playing awesome dungeons that offer alot of fun, challenge AND REWARD in all shapes and sizes isn’t part of the “An MMO to appeal to everyone” philosophy?

Arenanet didn’t have time to do it, but they will, they MUST. it is stupid to create such a good game and leave this out. there is no rational reason not to, it is MUCH better than what is currently in place.

Serp.3264:

Birdy.4816:

PvE is VITAL to an MMO’s success even this one.

If Arena-net have plans, instead of making stupid articles telling us what “MINOR” content we can do once we hit 80 that we mostly have already done, why don’t they come out and say:

“Hey, we hear you PvE lovers, our PvE Team is slaving hard away to rebalance loot tables, make more engaging encounters, make HEAVY adjustments to the token grind and we aim to eventually release 10-15 man content as we know alot of people really love this instead of 5 mans for eternity when even Guild Wars 1 had 8.”

“We have spent the last few years creating a great journey and PvP system, now that it is done, we wish to make an end-game PvE experiance that rivals the best such as world of warcraft”

That would please ALOT of people.

I disagree that PvE is vital to an MMO being successful. I assume this is because we have differing opinions on what is considered successful. For an MMO to be successful, it does not need to be the largest MMO in history. It doesn’t need to have the most active subscriptions. All it really needs to do is have a dedicated playerbase that enjoys the game.

You… are… embracing mediocrity, it is making me sick tbh. evem with this game’s pvp content WoW still has more of it in each expansion.

Do you see the point? if WoW can do all elements why shouldn’t this game? what benefit do arenanet or WE have by discluding the most popular mechanic of MMOs?

Honestly, yes you have an opinion, but…. recognize where a company is short falling and why people are frustrated GRINDING TOKENS IN CRAP DUNGEONS SUCKS.

Birdy.4816:

Serp.3264:

Birdy.4816:

PvE is VITAL to an MMO’s success even this one.

If Arena-net have plans, instead of making stupid articles telling us what “MINOR” content we can do once we hit 80 that we mostly have already done, why don’t they come out and say:

“Hey, we hear you PvE lovers, our PvE Team is slaving hard away to rebalance loot tables, make more engaging encounters, make HEAVY adjustments to the token grind and we aim to eventually release 10-15 man content as we know alot of people really love this instead of 5 mans for eternity when even Guild Wars 1 had 8.”

“We have spent the last few years creating a great journey and PvP system, now that it is done, we wish to make an end-game PvE experiance that rivals the best such as world of warcraft”

That would please ALOT of people.

I disagree that PvE is vital to an MMO being successful. I assume this is because we have differing opinions on what is considered successful. For an MMO to be successful, it does not need to be the largest MMO in history. It doesn’t need to have the most active subscriptions. All it really needs to do is have a dedicated playerbase that enjoys the game.

You… are… embracing mediocrity, it is making me sick tbh. evem with this game’s pvp content WoW still has more of it in each expansion.

Do you see the point? if WoW can do all elements why shouldn’t this game? what benefit do arenanet or WE have by discluding the most popular mechanic of MMOs?

Honestly, yes you have an opinion, but…. recognize where a company is short falling and why people are frustrated GRINDING TOKENS IN CRAP DUNGEONS SUCKS.

No one is forcing you to play, if GW2 is not your cup of tea, you can go pay to play WOW- and not have to worry about paying for GW2. Whats the tissue-issue?

Birdy.4816:

Serp.3264:

Azzras.8041:

So you’re saying the only endgame for cap level players is PvP when a majority of the game is PvE?

That isn’t what I said at all. You are thinking about “endgame” wrong. For a cap level player, you can work on your crafting skills, you can explore the maps (hearts, points of interest, vistas, etc), you can do all of the dungeons, you can work on achievements, etc. If you have completed all of that, great, try another class out! You don’t need to be level 80 to complete a large majority of the content in this game. That is the beauty of it.

The whole concept of endgame being some big task that you repeat over and over again for gear is something that GW2 has been trying to get away from. You should be doing things in a progression.

No it hasn,t theyve said they want the whole game to be like end-game, only ironically it isn’t because the end-game is non-existant for PvE players (notice how i say PvE players, not crafters or achievement gatherers)

The one major element is the dungeon crawl, the good, indepthful mechanics of later bosses, the bigger community guild raids ect.

All not present. and are typically the only things that stick for a long time.

You honestly trying to tell use that doing little minor asthetic things is worth it compared to playing awesome dungeons that offer alot of fun, challenge AND REWARD in all shapes and sizes isn’t part of the “An MMO to appeal to everyone” philosophy?

Arenanet didn’t have time to do it, but they will, they MUST. it is stupid to create such a good game and leave this out. there is no rational reason not to, it is MUCH better than what is currently in place.

You can’t disregard huge aspects of the game like achievements, PvP, crafting, etc. If you focus purely on one aspect of this game, you will be disappointed no matter what you do. This game has a ton to offer, try going outside your comfort zone and trying PvP, achievement gathering, crafting, etc. This game doesn’t have to be just a rush to gain experience and gear (which I assume is what you consider “PvE” considering you don’t like achievements or crafting).