Guild Wars 2

Curtis Johnson.8456:

A few more details on toys. Costume brawl toys are not tonics… Almost all of them will be usable with armor, outfits, tonics and other transforms.

The exception is boxing gloves, which is a brawl toy plus tonic in one.. so it will not combine with other looks, and Sonic Tunneling Tool… which scrubs transforms off you when you go underground.

So you’ll have to go into your inventory and click on the item in order to use it, rather than just having a keybind to switch to your townclothes set? That’s much less convenient than the system we have now. Why change it?

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Bonefield.9813:

Ezekiel.1985:

…
With that said, you say “not possible”, and that’s just not true. It IS possible, they just don’t want to bother with it, which is incredibly stupid. Skin replacement is one of the easiest things out there in coding, when the skins are already present. It’s essentially like turning a light switch.

That’s not entirely true.

Each of the armor weights in the game is constructed differently, which is probably one of the reasons we haven’t seen mixing and matching between different weights. It’s also likely the reason we see so many trenchcoats on medium armor—it’s specifically designed to support coats that go over pants. Light armor divides at the waist, and town clothes followed the same rules. If you read this blog post, you can pick up some hints as to how things were coded and why going back to change things would be more difficult than just find-and-replace:

In Guild Wars 2, weight classes determine the profession distribution and the seam rules for our armor coordination. We realized there were times when we desperately wanted to break those rules, so we developed a solution to do so. For example, town clothes work similar to the light armor system. There is a waist seam that allows mixing and matching to work relatively smoothly between pieces, which gives the player as much creative freedom as possible. But for clothing, it would be a travesty to never have a long trench coat, which has a seam overlap that would follow medium armor seam rules.

To solve this dilemma, we have created sets. Sets are two or more sections of armor fused into one to prevent mixing troubles that allow us to design with far less seam constraints. For example, we could have an outfit with a large trench coat, an inside vest and shirt, and pants. You’ve seen this before in my previous clothing blog post. That outfit is one piece.

I suspect this is why many town clothes pieces, such as the pirate captain’s outfit and Bloody Prince set, operate as one piece. And although I have zero technical expertise in this area, I think it probably follows that in order to make town clothes body pieces wearable in combat at all, it either works as an all-or-nothing system or they have to go back and change all of the armor in the game to follow the same seam rules (which might break several current armor sets, too). That would be a massive undertaking, and in the end it’s probably better that the lesser-used system takes a hit.

I’m not exactly happy with it, and I wish things hadn’t been designed that way in the first place (mostly because I’d like to see mixed armor weights), but establishing outfits as an overlay allows them some freedom to keep releasing costumes for holidays and making some sets of “universal” armor which don’t necessitate revamping the whole of GW2’s armor system. Since outfits use a separate system from transmutes, they can also probably be disallowed in PvP if it becomes a problem.

I can only speculate as to the choice to make some pieces tonics, but that might be the place to lean—respectfully—if we’d rather see them as outfits which can be dyed and used in combat.

Bonefield has a pretty good understanding here of why some mix and match is not easy at all. Some armor and clothing combinations are fundamentally not mixable, (for more than just clipping reasons)

How about the novel idea that you keep the town clothes as they are rather than changing them for the worse?

Back before they locked out the preview system from testing other armor weights, I used to try everything out on my my Warrior. Most items seemed to work fine together. Then I rolled some humans and realized somethings are quirky. And, before I post this, please Curtis don’t ever mess this up for my Norn Warrior!!!

The Invaders looks and fit amazing on my full height Norn vs mid height humans. Now, if I can deal with this, I think a little clipping isn’t that bad.

Or another quirky is radiant gloves getting covered over…..

Now all this time I never bothered anyone about such things. Clipping and oddities are just something I’ve learned to live with. That’s why I really don’t understand why all of a sudden clipping is so important that town clothes have to be removed unless they are perfect fits??? I’d love it if everything did fit perfectly but, I’d rather have the option to use it first.

Here’s my Asura in his current town clothes. Ornate Ruched Shirt, Riding Pants and Riding Boots. I know some didn’t care for the Riding Pants but he IS an engineer and he likes to be prepared with all those little pouches even when dressed in his finest.

I included the side picture because I love how this shirt has dots down the side, the same dye panel as the stitching in the front. This is great for colour matching details. And not only will he not be able to wear this outfit when the clothes-pocalypse comes he won’t even be able to dye this shirt and take advantage of the really nice detail that was put into the design of it. These items were made with dyeing in mind and now we can’t.

I don’t even want town clothers be wearable in combat just let them be as they are right now and focus on combat armors for wardrobe.

Given the choice I will take them as they are now.

I don’t even care if all the retired ones can’t be used in combat and Anet brings out a thousand gems worth of new town clothes which can. I just want the ones I bought to still be able to be used the way they are now, which is WHY I bought them.

Though if they did go this route I sure hope they reconsider the all or nothing deal, for one thing they will make a LOT more money if they have people like me buying whole outfits just for boots etc..

WereScrib.7154:

But honestly? Between Living Story and this town clothes change, I can’t honestly imagine how disconnected people in judgement positions are.
——-
You’re going to have people accuse you of being ~run~ by Scarlet at this rate.

this x 100000. I was a rabid fanboy of GW1, & I can’t even grasp the weirdness that is the Living ‘Story’, crap monetization, no expansions & the pay-to-use cosmetics.. It definitely feels like the story & world of GW are now at the whim of someone’s very specific biases.

DarksunG.9537:

WereScrib.7154:

But honestly? Between Living Story and this town clothes change, I can’t honestly imagine how disconnected people in judgement positions are.
——-
You’re going to have people accuse you of being ~run~ by Scarlet at this rate.

this x 100000. I was a rabid fanboy of GW1, & I can’t even grasp the weirdness that is the Living ‘Story’, crap monetization, no expansions & the pay-to-use cosmetics.. It definitely feels like the story & world of GW are now at the whim of someone’s very specific biases.

We have enough haters in the forums btw, just saying.

wharone.1809:

I never really post either because Anet never seems to acknowledge us until new mmos start coming out and the playerbase starts tanking, but I’ll just chip in this. Why are you making a business of REMOVING features with updates? I had a town clothing set made just for this and to find out now that mixing and matching isn’t welcome where it was actively encouraged in its early days is both laughable and horrifying.

Please, PLEASE do NOT go through with this change. I know this plea falls on deaf ears but kittenmit, I’m not ready to give up my town look. If this is truly the end, RIP town clothes, you were a symbol of a better time.

This guy knows what’s up. I love this look, why are you guys taking it away from me? Now I can’t be a stylish devil.

PSA: Say no to the new town clothes.

DarksunG.9537:

WereScrib.7154:

But honestly? Between Living Story and this town clothes change, I can’t honestly imagine how disconnected people in judgement positions are.
——-
You’re going to have people accuse you of being ~run~ by Scarlet at this rate.

this x 100000. I was a rabid fanboy of GW1, & I can’t even grasp the weirdness that is the Living ‘Story’, crap monetization, no expansions & the pay-to-use cosmetics.. It definitely feels like the story & world of GW are now at the whim of someone’s very specific biases.

One word: Nexon

OH I LOVE IT (the PSA)

And Ryoki your guy is rocking!

BTYM.8230:

PSA: Say no to the new town clothes.

I probably will copy this link on every page at least once!

WATCH IT NOW!!!

If you don’t reconsider it, next time I see townclothes or whatever on gemstore, I won’t buy it because I will be thinking that this will be deleted and will be changed for something I don’t like.

That means: More people angry, less mixed skins, less gems bought that means less people paying with real money for arenanet.

Everyone will loose with this.

nGumball.1283:

We have enough haters in the forums btw, just saying.

We have enough white knights in the forums btw, just saying.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

A few more details on toys. Costume brawl toys are not tonics… Almost all of them will be usable with armor, outfits, tonics and other transforms.

The exception is boxing gloves, which is a brawl toy plus tonic in one.. so it will not combine with other looks, and Sonic Tunneling Tool… which scrubs transforms off you when you go underground.

And now I am 100% confident I can not retain the town clothes I want to use on my main, as both the Boxing Gloves and the Dragon Emblem Shirt will be turned into separate tonics.

Instead of having one tab with my dragon emblem shirt, boxing gloves and sonic tunneling tool items only one button press away, I will now have to fill up three inventory slots if I want to use them – and then I can’t even use the Endless Tonic of wearing a Dragon Emblem Shirt outfit and Endless Tonic of wearing a pair of Boxing Gloves together.

A very fitting song to the current situation. This is a good cover.

<3

Our town clothes.

To me, the town clothes system is bloody ace! It is actually in fact, one of my favourite aspects of the game as it is another way to costomise our characters. I have 17 characters and all of them have a unique set of town clothes. For me, the single most fun and important thing in this game after the social aspect is customising my characters.
If this change to the town clothes system is made, I will absolutly refuse to buy gems again and I may even quit GW2 altogether. Now I know that sounds a bit drastic but I’ll try explain (so that this post might help them understand and/or change their minds as apposed to it just being a rant post :p ).

I’ll start by explaining the lengths I go to to customise my characters and then come back on to the topic of town clothes so hold with me for a min guys. : )
When I create a new character, the first thing I do after the starter mission is go to the trading post and/or gem store and buy armour and weapons to fully customise my character. I then transmute the same skins onto all the new armour and weapons the character gets as it levels up to 80. You can imagine how many transmution stones and crystals I have bought since release. Thats roughly about 10 every time I upgrade my armour and weapons every 5 or 10 levels and for 17 chars. (so thats easly in excess of 1500+). Now think how much money I have spent buying the gems to buy them. To be fair, I got some from map completion and other ways but only a fraction of the total. I hope you are starting to see how important customising my characters is to me now.

This is where I come back to the topic of town clothes. As I said earlier, the only thing in the game I think more important and fun than customising my characters is the social aspect. This means that I spend quite a bit of time just stood about chatting in the capitals and Lion’s Arch and showing of my unique look (as we all do im sure lol). The problem with just stanting about casually in my combat armour is that it really spoils the ambiance. Like, im stood there laughing and joking with ppl but buried in armour and bristling with weapons. Not really a casual look is it, lol.
So, the second thing I do after customising the weapons and armour of my character is then to customise their town clothes. As we know, nearly all the town clothes in the game have to be baught with gems. I have baught town clothes for 17 characters now so that’s a hell of a lot of gems I’ve baught just to look good while stood about in chating (not to mention the amount I have baught already to customise my weapons and armour).
That could really be concidered quite exessive but the point in town clothes is that you can show a whole other aspect of you char. How they look while they go about their normal day-to-day stuff. Some look very smart and posh, some look rough and rougish, some look like they are in their work clothes and some look like they are in fancy dress but all of them look like the general citizen that you might expect to find wandering about Lion’s Arch, the captal cities or any of the many outposts and villages to be found around Tyria.
Now that you can see how important customising my characters is to me, I hope you can see why removing the current town clothes system would cause me to react in such a way as to stop buying gems and even quit the game althogher.

The solution to and Ideas for town clothes, as I see it:

• Hide/Unhide Town Clothes option for when in the cities and/or combat.
• All crafting done in cities (another activity to do mainly in town cothes)
• Many more activities and games to be done exsclusivly in town clothes.
  – Costume Brawl.
  – Water fights with waterbombs (like snowballs) and water pistols.
  – Town clothes emotes.
• Make some costume sets double as armour sets (Not change “to” armour sets).
• Party hosting and guild banquets in home instance.
  Since release I have had dozens of more ideas but can’t remember them right now. : (

BTW, Can someone point me to the where Anet said they are going to make these changes, please. I would really like to see it from the horses mouth. : )

Note: I thought I better explain, in case maybe you were thinking that Im a fickle player, that I have been a part of the Guild Wars community since just after the first Guild Wars game was released. I met my wife in GW and we now have 4 kids. I never thought that I would abandon GW no matter how bad I thought they messed up.
But… after the flamekissed issue, I really felt messed about (with it being a character customisation issue i particcually took offence to it) and now there is this issue. Its like, in a game where character custoisation is the second most important aspect, I feel that we are about to lose 50% of out character customisation potential.

nGumball.1283:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV1I4X7nKxk

A very fitting song to the current situation. This is a good cover.

Good song and it does fit.

I would have thought more would have turned out to voice there opinion about this change. Maybe most players don’t bother to read the update news? Guess we will find out how many miss the old way when the patch is released. Considering how many players there are, 700+ comments seems low by comparison, to me anyway.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Bonefield has a pretty good understanding here of why some mix and match is not easy at all. Some armor and clothing combinations are fundamentally not mixable, (for more than just clipping reasons)

Charr medium T3 leggings goes horrible with the coats, I just have to point out. Makes me wish I could have some heavy chest so I can wear something that does not clip with that bone skirt. Or that we would get some proper medium armour in the game, like leather cuirasses. Because when I am viewing my character with only pants on, I feel sad that they are hidden under coats all the time. For example the Svanir Leggings from the dungeon vendor, they actually have details on them! Platings. Not just some plain pants. So it would be awesome to have some chest armour that is only covering the upper body like real armour and is not a coat.

Devildoc.6721:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Bonefield.9813:

Ezekiel.1985:

…
With that said, you say “not possible”, and that’s just not true. It IS possible, they just don’t want to bother with it, which is incredibly stupid. Skin replacement is one of the easiest things out there in coding, when the skins are already present. It’s essentially like turning a light switch.

That’s not entirely true.

Each of the armor weights in the game is constructed differently, which is probably one of the reasons we haven’t seen mixing and matching between different weights. It’s also likely the reason we see so many trenchcoats on medium armor—it’s specifically designed to support coats that go over pants. Light armor divides at the waist, and town clothes followed the same rules. If you read this blog post, you can pick up some hints as to how things were coded and why going back to change things would be more difficult than just find-and-replace:

In Guild Wars 2, weight classes determine the profession distribution and the seam rules for our armor coordination. We realized there were times when we desperately wanted to break those rules, so we developed a solution to do so. For example, town clothes work similar to the light armor system. There is a waist seam that allows mixing and matching to work relatively smoothly between pieces, which gives the player as much creative freedom as possible. But for clothing, it would be a travesty to never have a long trench coat, which has a seam overlap that would follow medium armor seam rules.

To solve this dilemma, we have created sets. Sets are two or more sections of armor fused into one to prevent mixing troubles that allow us to design with far less seam constraints. For example, we could have an outfit with a large trench coat, an inside vest and shirt, and pants. You’ve seen this before in my previous clothing blog post. That outfit is one piece.

I suspect this is why many town clothes pieces, such as the pirate captain’s outfit and Bloody Prince set, operate as one piece. And although I have zero technical expertise in this area, I think it probably follows that in order to make town clothes body pieces wearable in combat at all, it either works as an all-or-nothing system or they have to go back and change all of the armor in the game to follow the same seam rules (which might break several current armor sets, too). That would be a massive undertaking, and in the end it’s probably better that the lesser-used system takes a hit.

I’m not exactly happy with it, and I wish things hadn’t been designed that way in the first place (mostly because I’d like to see mixed armor weights), but establishing outfits as an overlay allows them some freedom to keep releasing costumes for holidays and making some sets of “universal” armor which don’t necessitate revamping the whole of GW2’s armor system. Since outfits use a separate system from transmutes, they can also probably be disallowed in PvP if it becomes a problem.

I can only speculate as to the choice to make some pieces tonics, but that might be the place to lean—respectfully—if we’d rather see them as outfits which can be dyed and used in combat.

Bonefield has a pretty good understanding here of why some mix and match is not easy at all. Some armor and clothing combinations are fundamentally not mixable, (for more than just clipping reasons)

How about the novel idea that you keep the town clothes as they are rather than changing them for the worse?

+100000000000

Much better keeping the town clothes as is right now than the tonic solution. And if you want to make town clothes or costumes usable in combat, it’s simple, allow to fight with the town clothes attire and do not change automaticaly it to combat attire. If the problem with this is the toy slot, then make only the toys as tonics. Any solution is better than this.

Anyway, there is something I don’t really understand (maybe lost in this long thread). As far as I know, if I have, lets say, Rider Pants tonic, I can use it whenever I want. What happens if my character is heavy armor? What is exactly the change? Only changes the legs and having the rest of the body with heavy armor, or changes all to standard town clothes + pants? If is the first, then I don’t understand the problem with the different armors weight, and if it is the second, then I don’t understand why to remove the current town clothes system.

All this seems like a bad design decision, and can’t see why this was taken instead of others.

BTYM.8230:

PSA: Say no to the new town clothes.

I must like this, SHARE THIS VIDEO! ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ENbowK79GQ

Xyonon.3987:

BTYM.8230:

PSA: Say no to the new town clothes.

I probably will copy this link on every page at least once!

WATCH IT NOW!!!

I love it! Here is my total support.

Bensozia.8071:

I would have thought more would have turned out to voice there opinion about this change. Maybe most players don’t bother to read the update news? Guess we will find out when the patch is released. Considering how many players there are, 700+ comments seems low by comparison, to me anyway.

But I think what you are forgetting is that for every person that takes the time to come to the forums and post, there are XX times as many people that either:
1) not yet taken the time to read the blog post or may not regularly visit the webpage (even though the link is in the log in screen, some folks can’t be bothered. * I know that a number of my guild mates had no clue about these changes until I directed them to the website.
2) Feel that there is no point in taking time to post, as this is a corporate decision that is already been made and posting will have little to no effect. These folks will ‘vote with their wallet’ and simply stop or limit their purchasing from the store here on out

Don’t mistake silence for compliance, acceptance, or apathy.
I was once told that if one person takes the time to write a complaint = 100 people who are of the same mindset but don’t for a variety of reasons.

NoxInfernus.2361:

Bensozia.8071:

I would have thought more would have turned out to voice there opinion about this change. Maybe most players don’t bother to read the update news? Guess we will find out when the patch is released. Considering how many players there are, 700+ comments seems low by comparison, to me anyway.

But I think what you are forgetting is that for every person that takes the time to come to the forums and post, there are XX times as many people that either:
1) not yet taken the time to read the blog post or may not regularly visit the webpage (even though the link is in the log in screen, some folks can’t be bothered. * I know that a number of my guild mates had no clue about these changes until I directed them to the website.
2) Feel that there is no point in taking time to post, as this is a corporate decision that is already been made and posting will have little to no effect. These folks will ‘vote with their wallet’ and simply stop or limit their purchasing from the store here on out

Don’t mistake silence for compliance, acceptance, or apathy.
I was once told that if one person takes the time to write a complaint = 100 people who are of the same mindset but don’t for a variety of reasons.

I agree that most people feel even if they hate what is going to happen, there is no point into post on the forums about it, as there is no chance to their feedback do any impact on ArenaNet’s decision.

While the town clothes changes don’t really affect me greatly, I do think that it is silly to try and ‘fix’ the town clothes system, which wasn’t ever broken at all. The town clothes as they are right now are an item many people find fun to wear, mix-match and color in many different areas of the game like: Hanging arround in hub areas while talking, Role Players that wear heavy armor but want to look civilized actualy have some options with town clothes to do so, heck right now players could even organize a town clothes fashion contest!

By moving these clothes into tonics certain functionalities have been removed as mentioned earlier. I for one don’t really understand why these items didn’t get a similar treatment as the normal gear, but can only be applied on town clothes tab of your character.

Also, I think if you’d in the future release town clothes as tonics way less people will buy them if even 1 part of the set is not to their liking… however, as stated by some people… if you have town clothes as they are right now, some people buy an entire set for a single piece just so they can match it with their other clothes!

I have to conclude that, if you keep the town clothes as they are now but add a wardrobe functionality to this tab, it’d be a win/win situation. I hope for many that you will concider not changing the town clothes to tonics… and even if there’s not enough time to add a wardrobe functionality to them yet, it can be something to work on for a future update ^^

I think I understand what Curtis is talking about.

There’s a huge hole in my chest.

Max Lexandre.6279:

NoxInfernus.2361:

Don’t mistake silence for compliance, acceptance, or apathy.
I was once told that if one person takes the time to write a complaint = 100 people who are of the same mindset but don’t for a variety of reasons.

I agree that most people feel even if they hate what is going to happen, there is no point into post on the forums about it, as there is no chance to their feedback do any impact on ArenaNet’s decision.

I know that personally I’m speaking on behalf of at least three friends who feel very strongly on the issue but either 1) don’t think feedback will change anything (please prove me wrong, ANet) or 2) just don’t have time to post things in the forum. Also, the official forum is hardly the only place where people talk about GW2. I know many people prefer reddit, though I haven’t been over there to check opinions on the matter because when I go to reddit I have a tendency to get stuck… (It’s almost as bad as TV Tropes.)

Spanex.1950:

Since some light has been shed upon the mix&match issues, I can understand the changes being made.

Actually, very little light has been shed upon the issues by the devs themselves. Curtis has told us that there are “more than just clipping problems” but hasn’t elaborated (probably because he wasn’t authorized to— apparently they’ve been having a bit of a powwow over at ANet to figure out how to respond to this whole thing, and it’s understandable that nobody can really say much in the meantime to prevent misleading information from getting out and getting us confused). Most of the light shed has been informed guesses by people familiar with meshes, skins, and other aspects of 3D art and animation, but it’s still just speculation.

I hold out hope that today (once they’re done with their morning coffee— I’m remembering the time difference this time!… darned East Coast), ANet as a group will at least decide to tell us what exactly the technical limitations are that caused them to make these illogical-seeming choices, so maybe we can try to brainstorm solutions. After all, there have been collaborative development projects before, yes? Why not collaborative fixes?

Twyll Blackleaf.9641:

I hold out hope that today (once they’re done with their morning coffee— I’m remembering the time difference this time!… darned East Coast), ANet as a group will at least decide to tell us what exactly the technical limitations are that caused them to make these illogical-seeming choices, so maybe we can try to brainstorm solutions. After all, there have been collaborative development projects before, yes? Why not collaborative fixes?

Agreed (even with the stuff I didn’t quote)! And a lot of people have put together fantastic ideas in this thread alone. In general more transparency in the future might be nice but I also realize that we might have a bigger problem with people saying ‘but you PROMISED craftable pres by the end of 2013!’

…. I still dream of wearing Queen Jennah’s dress ….

I don’t want to wear that stupid wintersday hat that makes me bald. Will I be able to get a refund on the whole set? I really don’t want it if I have to wear that stupid hat, and have to take a tonic every time to have something else there, and I don’t like the shoes either. I really think this is a HUGE and tedious step in the wrong direction. The way it is now I have more freedom. The only thing that makes sense is the toys being in the inventory. Why in the world are you FORCING us to wear one full set? I just don’t understand what that was supposed to improve.

I’ve taken some time to reply here because I wanted to attach my own mix-and-match combinations, and take lots of screenshots of them in case this is my last chance to see my main wearing her treasured clothes.

In my first posts I was relieved to read the clothes would be converted into “clothes-tonics” because I feared they would be converted into other kind of tonics, so I would lose them forever. From “Nothing” to “something”, there’s always some relief. But the more I read, and the more I think about it, the more I hate the idea, and since I see I’m not alone in this, I want to ask you again to reconsider the changes.

Like some people above, I’m not going to ask for a refund for my tonics or outfits, because I still have the hope we will get the old system back and even in the worse of cases, to have them in this useless way is better than not having them at all. But of course I will feel disappointed since I paid real money for a feature you’re going to take away from me (practically all the gems I’ve spent in the gem store are for armor skins and town clothes – and some of them even as gifts because of last Xmas promotion!)

So still, I really want to
a) be able to combine my town clothes (and that includes using the parts of the outfits separatedly), and
b) be able to dye them.

As it has been said before too, I don’t mind to wait, as long as the feature is conserved or returns later. And since there have been some suggestions, I want to add mine. I hope they sound sensible enough for ANET to take them into consideration (actually I already posted one of them before but I think it is lost amongst all the old posts, so no harm to repeat it and elaborate it a bit more).

(Suggestions go in a second post since it seems I write too much and I surpassed the limit XD)

Suggestion 1: Have you ever heard the saying “If it works, don’t touch it”?. Exactly. If possible, leave the town clothes as they are now. I think most of us agree we like them that way so, why not discard all those changes? I think in three weeks there’s still time to discard them, but if not, please save the old codes and work on them to return later. Pleaseeeee.

Suggestion 2: Since it seems the change has been done in part to please the many players who wanted to be able to use town clothes in combat (something I don’t share and I don’t understand, because what sense makes to rush into combat dressed as a cook or in a fancy winter outfit? Isn’t it more logical to do it using an armor which would protect you? I don’t understand it even for RP reasons, but even if I don’t share this claim, I understand I am a minority there, and I respect the majority), and the big problem, as it has been stated by the devs, is to mix and match the town clothes with armor pieces (again I don’t think that makes sense… I can’t imagine someone fighting in short kahkis + heavy breastplate, but well…)… Well, why don’t make town clothes as a 4th weight kind of armor that everybody could use? We would have:

• Light – for scholars.
• Medium – for adventurers.
• Heavy – for soldiers.
• Town clothes – for everybody.
  Town clothes would work EXACTLY like the other kind of armors, but their stats would be zero, and you would transmutate them for free to a set of base default town clothes which should include hats and gloves of course, and whose skin would be available too in case you wanted them back, and they would only mix and match with their own kind. And of course they would be perfectly dyable. We would still be able to separate outfits, and as it has also been pointed out, the outfits (Pirate, Bloody Prince, etc) which use only one slot for chest/legs could also be separated in two pieces (please please with a cherry on top! I’m not using the pirate outfit exactly because of that, and I’d love to combine those tight sexy pirate pants with other shirts!), so everybody would be happy. And yeah, they could be used in combat, but just like in real life, you would get not armor bonus at all. What about it?

Finally a question: What will happen with the default town clothes? Are they disappearing too? I USED them for combinations too! And what about the bandana you could get at the Iron Marches???? My girl loves it!

Hope you take all those suggestions in consideration, ANET and kind mods which read this. We are a lot of people begging you to KEEP a feature we loved. We aren’t asking for nothing else. No new things. No new advantages. No big changes. Just let us keep our town clothes, keep them as they were. And since were at it, release more of them! Tons of them! You’ll have my gems and my money! (I’m still waiting for all the clothes the NPCs wear in game!)

Look at my girl. Look at SOME of the MANY nice combinations she could wear, and I don’t even have most of the clothes yet. Really, don’t you want to see this in game anymore? Do you really prefer everybody to be clones with the same clothes in the same colors???? I don’t, and here you have 16 pages of players who don’t want it either. Hope that sends the right message to you!

Will the original set of town clothes you are wearing upon character creation be an unlocked costume that we can wear? or is that just gone?

Sonia.7910:

Suggestion 1: Have you ever heard the saying “If it works, don’t touch it”?.

They have not. Otherwise, they would never have spent all the time and money they did changing the human female running animation, and then additional time and money fixing the 2 handed sheathed weapons to work with their new animation.

When, they could have left the human female running animation alone, and used that time and money to make our old clothes work with the new system.

Which is why I still think this is about Values.

I really don’t see why we have to have one piece costumes. Everything else is fine, just let the costume system keep its multiple slots, it satisfies all of the complaints. If you don’t want people running around in undies with stats, that’s where you put “default” clothing.

Here are some of my favourite characters in their casuals. I have more and some of them have full Town Clothes sets but as they arn’t really my favourit and as they havn’t really been customised, I didn’t bother adding pics of them. As you can see, nearly all these characters have had Town Clothes or Toys bought for them. (read my post a few posts back for full details on just how many characters I have bought town clothes for).

If they go ahead with this system, they will be robbing us of half our character customision potentional. I say NO to the impending Town Clothes changes!

Sonia.7910:

Well, why don’t make town clothes as a 4th weigh

Some of us have been asking for the removal of weight classes entirely. Having them is what fragmented the meshes and created a good deal of the clipping issues to begin with. They should unify the skins to make them more future proof. Also, creating new ones in the future would be much easier and cost effective.

Combination NC.9813:

To me, there are just too many backdraws with this update. I am happy about the dyes and skin unlock, but not only are many of my town clothes being taken away, I will also no longer be able to use the headpieces as before. I did not purchase sunglasses to wear in combat, but now my only way to use them will be to pay a charge to put the look on a combat item. I do not want this, and would have protested against it in a CDI thread. Leveling will be less fun as well since I will not be able to afford transmuting below 80 skins as I level now that they will cost the same to transmute as 80 skins. I understand that you want to make money, but sneakingly adding a high cost to a much-used quality of life feature we have come to rely on but have not had to pay for in the past feels pretty low.

My lovely guildee brings up another really good point about this wardrobe conversion that I’m extremely upset by (albeit unrelated to the town clothes and costumes general argument of this thread but Combo already mentioned it here so I’m going to run with it… feel free to transplant this post to another more appropriate thread if you like devs!). I have 21 character slots, 20 of which are currently filled, with all intentions to buy more in the future as I go through leveling the characters I have to 80. I can’t give an exact amount because I know some of the slots were on sale, but that’s well over $100 that I’ve paid out to ArenaNet for said extra slots over the 5 basic ones that are given to us. I’d like to think myself and others like me are quite a large chunk of the profit margin from the gem store.

One of my things about leveling my alts is I loathe the starter armors. My first trip with a character is to the PvP locker to set out a look for them to have at 80, which I go out and get for them at that time if it is reasonable to do so. If said look is too expensive (Tier 3 cultural, dungeon armors, etc.), then they also get a leveling look that I buy for them immediately and they keep until they hit level 80 and sometimes after. This involves transmutation every 10 or so levels to keep their stats within reason and not make the leveling process any more difficult than it already is.

Dressing them up is fun and makes the leveling process all that much more enjoyable for me, especially now that I have 11 level 80s, at least one of every profession, and I’ve done world completion twice. Suddenly tripling the cost of this for me is not going to get any extra money out of me, its going to force me to either a) not dress up my alts until they reach cap (which will upset me greatly as some take months to get there) or b) increase the amount of levels inbetween stat transmutations to cut the cost of charges through their trek to 80 (which will make said leveling that much more lengthy, frustrating, and all that much less enjoyable for me as a player.)

I already feel like I can’t take my alts to do anything before they hit level 80 (dungeons, living story, fractals, etc.) but this alongside the trait changes is going to make me want to play my under 80 characters even less.

This in combination with the proposed town clothes changes, which I have already previously mentioned my grievances with, has really soured my attitude toward and has me really kind of dreading the feature patch even though there are numerous other parts of it that I should be and am really excited for! Devs please listen to us and our feedback and consider some changes and tweaks to the system!

I’m not sure how many of you have read the countless threads asking for a Wardrobe, but this feature update is giving almost everything that has been asked for since launch. The Town Clothes change is a small price to pay for all of that. I’m super excited to finally be able to have my Elementalist fight in her Bloody Prince Costume.

I think I’d prefer that they release the Wardrobe as planned, but let everyone know that their main goal for the next wardrobe enhancement/expansion is to improve the Town Clothes to function as single skins that are capable of Mix-and-Match. They could even replace a few pieces at time with each two-week update, until they were caught up.

Also, I think the Charges provided by Stones and Crystals should be altered. 1 Stone should equal 1 charge and 1 Crystal should be worth 3 charges. It seems odd that transmuting Level 79 and under items is suddenly going to triple in cost.

videoboy.4162:

Also, I think the Charges provided by Stones and Crystals should be altered. 1 Stone should equal 1 charge and 1 Crystal should be worth 3 charges. It seems odd that transmuting Level 79 and under items is suddenly going to triple in cost.

Or at least 2 stones to 1 charge, and 1 crystal to 2 charges. Just something more balanced than the current proposition. 1 to 1 on the charges or higher than 2 to 1 on the crystals could result in some crazy imbalances as I know some people with fewer characters are sitting on a stack or more of transmutation stones.

Conncept.7638:

Fenrina.2954:

Djinn.9245:

If the issues are simply clipping, I say let people do it anyway. As many people have pointed out, there are already clipping issues. People can preview items and decide if they don’t like the clipping or can deal with it.

It’s more than just clipping. He makes it sound like there’s large holes in the model or a graphics issue just as bad if they’re combined.

3d models are basically groups of connecting geometric planes. The seam is where one row of planes connects with another. If two seams don’t meet correctly, you can end up with overlapping planes (clipping) or even empty space.

I understand this. As I said, there is already clipping. Let players decide if the clipping or holes are acceptable to them or not.

Sulfarius.1756:

While the town clothes changes don’t really affect me greatly, I do think that it is silly to try and ‘fix’ the town clothes system, which wasn’t ever broken at all.

Many people wanted to be able to choose their look for the clothing they wore while adventuring, not only standing around town. Apparently enough people that Anet decided to make this change. Being able to “costume” while adventuring is also a large feature in many other MMOs so having it here may attract new players.

Although I also want the “mix and match” ability.

videoboy.4162:

I’m not sure how many of you have read the countless threads asking for a Wardrobe, but this feature update is giving almost everything that has been asked for since launch. The Town Clothes change is a small price to pay for all of that. I’m super excited to finally be able to have my Elementalist fight in her Bloody Prince Costume.

I think I’d prefer that they release the Wardrobe as planned, but let everyone know that their main goal for the next wardrobe enhancement/expansion is to improve the Town Clothes to function as single skins that are capable of Mix-and-Match. They could even replace a few pieces at time with each two-week update, until they were caught up.

Also, I think the Charges provided by Stones and Crystals should be altered. 1 Stone should equal 1 charge and 1 Crystal should be worth 3 charges. It seems odd that transmuting Level 79 and under items is suddenly going to triple in cost.

I said in another thread. We can still want the wardrobe but complain about the town clothes. The two things are different.

The wardrobe is good, I like finding different gear combinations and mixing and matching.

The town clothes thing is sort of odd though. If anet doesn’t want to make them into armor skins, that’s fine, we bought them already knowing we couldn’t use them in combat, but why make them into tonics? Why not just say no and that they’ll keep the current system they have for town clothes; I’d prefer that as opposed to this tonic thing.

The main problem I think a lot of people have with this is why. Anet has just told us they’re doing it this way, but not why they’re doing it this way; just deal with it. At the very least we deserve an explanation since a lot of us payed real money for them.

Wait, so they’re removing town clothing because of clipping issues?

By that logic, shouldn’t they completely remove the Charr from the game?

Djinn.9245:

Many people wanted to be able to choose their look for the clothing they wore while adventuring, not only standing around town. Apparently enough people that Anet decided to make this change. Being able to “costume” while adventuring is also a large feature in many other MMOs so having it here may attract new players.

Although I also want the “mix and match” ability.

GW has always had a general ethos of realism in the game. Like for example, you can’t make your characters look like manga or cartoon characters because they want to keep a particular sence of realism or you can’t make your characters super big or small. In my opinion, letting people be "able to “costume” while adventuring" is a step in the wrong direction. One of the things that specific and unique to GW2 is the Town Clothes system. It should be celebrated and expanded apon, not removed.

videoboy.4162:

I’m not sure how many of you have read the countless threads asking for a Wardrobe, but this feature update is giving almost everything that has been asked for since launch. The Town Clothes change is a small price to pay for all of that. I’m super excited to finally be able to have my Elementalist fight in her Bloody Prince Costume.

I think I’d prefer that they release the Wardrobe as planned, but let everyone know that their main goal for the next wardrobe enhancement/expansion is to improve the Town Clothes to function as single skins that are capable of Mix-and-Match. They could even replace a few pieces at time with each two-week update, until they were caught up.

Also, I think the Charges provided by Stones and Crystals should be altered. 1 Stone should equal 1 charge and 1 Crystal should be worth 3 charges. It seems odd that transmuting Level 79 and under items is suddenly going to triple in cost.

While some people are clamoring for a delay on the wardrobe, I think most of us are excited about the possibilities. I know that part of the reason I’ve held off on updating most of my 80s to exotic armor has been an unwillingness to pay for the crystals it would take to actually put them in a look I found pleasing. For that alone, this update has me pumped.

Really, what I’m hoping for is assurance that some form of mix-and-match for town clothes will return in the future. If this is in the form of a delay on removing non-combat clothes from the game, that would be ideal, but I can live with sticking tonics in my bank if that means down the line they’ll become clothes again.

Also, I agree 100% with the conversion business on the transmutation stuff. I understand why they’re devaluing the stones so much, but the crystals should probably be worth a lot more than one charge.

wharone.1809:

Wait, so they’re removing town clothing because of clipping issues?

By that logic, shouldn’t they completely remove the Charr from the game?

This just make me laugh. :P

Titan Cronus.9216:

Djinn.9245:

Many people wanted to be able to choose their look for the clothing they wore while adventuring, not only standing around town. Apparently enough people that Anet decided to make this change. Being able to “costume” while adventuring is also a large feature in many other MMOs so having it here may attract new players.

Although I also want the “mix and match” ability.

GW has always had a general ethos of realism in the game. Like for example, you can’t make your characters look like manga or cartoon characters because they want to keep a particular sence of realism or you can’t make your characters super big or small. In my opinion, letting people be "able to “costume” while adventuring" is a step in the wrong direction. One of the things that specific and unique to GW2 is the Town Clothes system. It should be celebrated and expanded apon, not removed.

Realism? Like weapons that shoot unicorns? Or like wearing a stuffed quaggan backpack into combat?