Guild Wars 2

mrstealth.6701:

zeromius.1604:

You knew that they were going to add Ascended items to the other slots after they were first released in November. It’s not a big surprise that you were going to see Ascended weapons and armor. It would however be quite surprising if ArenaNet went back on their promise and introduced a tier above Ascended at some point in time.

Oh, none of this surprised me. I saw the blog posts when the ascended rings were first added. I’ve known since last November than full ascended gear was coming eventually. And ever since that, I’ve hoped that they would make start implementing ascended gear in some way that doesn’t punish alts and build variety. And every time another piece comes out with yet another timegated, alt-hating, way to acquire it, my desire to keep playing this game dies a little.

It’s pretty discouraging to know that the devs are working hard to completely destroy your playstyle…one that they previously claimed to uphold and encourage. I’m completely for the idea that some games aren’t suited or some people/playstyles, and that it can be best to find a game more suited to you…but GW2 was suited to me, and was marketed to this type of player. And now the game is changing to suit the demands of a different type of player, at the cost of destroying my preferred playstyle. Those that want this type of long-term time-gated progression have many game options, why try to turn GW2 into something it wasn’t supposed to be?

While I don’t necessarily agree with the so called time gating mechanism, one thing it does do is put everyone on a level playing field. This way, someone who has a lot more gold than most players can’t just simply buy his/her way into an Ascended weapon. This player won’t get their hands on something that will give them a statistical edge until everyone else does. Imagine stepping into WvW where someone with a full Ascended set just destroys everyone because he/she had a lot of gold to spend versus everyone else that had a lot less and were stuck with exotics. Such a scenario is less likely if this person was forced to attain their Ascended gear at the same pace as everyone else.

I’m not saying that ArenaNet should ignore your feedback but they should look at it more carefully. They do listen to feedback. Acting on that feedback however might not always be in the best interest of the game because it can have unintended consequences. Remember when people complained about the lack of rewards for champions and how ArenaNet finally acted on it? You know how that turned out.

You have players that have complained about the lack of progression on their characters and how there’s nothing to do. Nothing to do can’t be further from the truth since they can explore the world, run all explorable dungeons, do jumping puzzles, and yes level alts. They are stuck in this whole end game mindset where they only want to progress their mains. They don’t care that there are other things to do. You might say that ArenaNet should just ignore them because giving them what they want would ultimately make you unhappy. I don’t know if they made the right decision at the time but there was no way they were going to make both groups happy.

Now back to gearing up alts with Ascended gear. Similar to how someone with more time and gold on their hands could get better gear quicker, they could also gear up their alts quicker than other players that like playing with alts. If having an edge over everyone else wasn’t enough now they have an edge over everyone else with several characters. Time gating, while it forces you to log in every day, is a necessary evil that prevents that truly rich from outright dominating the poor.

I agree that it’s better that the ascended gear is bound this way than being outright purchasable with gold. Given the nature of the gear, if it was tradable, the prices would be prohibitively high. This could always be done with exotic gear, but it didn’t matter much because exotic gear was made fairly easily available from multiple sources.

The problems with the account-bound timegating are with alts and new players. If the timegating was removed entirely, then you’d have those with the most time to play (I know I fall into this group) being able to rapidly gear up characters. I suppose that could be a problem itself, although I think it’s less of one. I think the mid-ground might be the best solution. Keep the existing timegates, but make them character bound. Earning a laurel would give each character a laurel to spend, or perhaps a secondary “light” daily for alts to earn their laurel.

Character-binding the timegating would still prevent anyone from rushing the process and getting a character geared up too fast, while allowing those with the time for alts to be able to gear them up in a reasonable fashion.

I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable. The only question is whether the pacing of the progression is appropriate. Personally, I like that they are keeping it slow and the progression is not excessive. 8% increase is not really that much, though if they screw up weapons and make them too hard to obtain in the style of legendaries combined with 8% increase from stats and 8% from weapon damage then that will be a problem. Another issue is gearing alts with the time gated progression. They should have made laurels/dailies character rather than account bound, but oh well that ship has sailed.

yay for ascended weapons now i can go higher then 50.

also i hope i can infuse the rest of my ascended gear now

please stop crying we all know ascended was made for fractals. then ppl cried so they made it for casuals to.

its aimed at the non casual hard working players of this game who actually like the gear and use it for the content it was made for

FRACTALS

Yaki.9563:

I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable.

Here’s what you’re missing. They already made a game like that. It’s called Every Other MMORPG On The Market. And guess what? That game has never been able to hold my attention. EOMMORPGotM has sold well because lots of folks like that style of play, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But a huge part of Guild Wars 2’s marketing was to people who were burned out by playing EOMMORPGotM. I log in and run off to WvW and revel in the fact that I can play in a massivley multiplayer online space and not have to worry about running on the gear treadmill. Part of why I don’t like leveling alts is because I have to start looking at gear again instead of just vendoring it.

As soon as a game starts feeling like a job, I stop. I have a job for that purpose, except it gives me actual money. I am not alone in this sentiment, and GW2 was supposed to be a little paradise for those with similar mindsets to mine. We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

“Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not grinding to the fun reward.”

Klawlyt.6507:

Yaki.9563:

I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable.

Here’s what you’re missing. They already made a game like that. It’s called Every Other MMORPG On The Market. And guess what? That game has never been able to hold my attention. EOMMORPGotM has sold well because lots of folks like that style of play, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But a huge part of Guild Wars 2’s marketing was to people who were burned out by playing EOMMORPGotM. I log in and run off to WvW and revel in the fact that I can play in a massivley multiplayer online space and not have to worry about running on the gear treadmill. Part of why I don’t like leveling alts is because I have to start looking at gear again instead of just vendoring it.

As soon as a game starts feeling like a job, I stop. I have a job for that purpose, except it gives me actual money. I am not alone in this sentiment, and GW2 was supposed to be a little paradise for those with similar mindsets to mine. We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

“Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not grinding to the fun reward.”

Fully agree to this post. I also played EOMMORPGotM and totally burned out on gear progression. I also have a job that’s both more fun than EOMMORPGotM and gives me real money at the same time.

So please, A.net, don’t cater to the playerbase of EOMMORPGotM because that’s the game your playerbase ran away from. Those who’d rather play EOMMORPGotM can do that. EOMMORPGotM is still available, and often f2p too.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I dunno, I think the third group (“we don’t care, we’ll get it if we need it”) is bigger than both combined.

It’s quite likely true – but, as i said before, it doesn’t matter. While that group is not protesting against introducing ascended weapons, they would also not protest against removing them. As far as the ascended gear is concerned, they don’t count.

tolunart.2095:

I’m certain of it. For good or ill, Anet tries to include something for every segment of their player base. What happens is that pleasing group A will kitten off group C, while Group B doesn’t care either way. Group B is generally larger than A + C, so overall the game itself and the players are not affected by any of the changes.

Again, group B does not matter here. What matters is the relation of group A to group C – and from what i see, group C (anti-ascended) is significantly bigger than group A (pro-ascended).

that path was decided at the end of last year and has been controversly and thoroughly discussed. GW2 has a mild gear progression now and it will stay I presume. You can either (begrudgingly) accept it or stop bothering at all at the loss of character power.

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I dunno, I think the third group (“we don’t care, we’ll get it if we need it”) is bigger than both combined.

It’s quite likely true – but, as i said before, it doesn’t matter. While that group is not protesting against introducing ascended weapons, they would also not protest against removing them. As far as the ascended gear is concerned, they don’t count.

tolunart.2095:

I’m certain of it. For good or ill, Anet tries to include something for every segment of their player base. What happens is that pleasing group A will kitten off group C, while Group B doesn’t care either way. Group B is generally larger than A + C, so overall the game itself and the players are not affected by any of the changes.

Again, group B does not matter here. What matters is the relation of group A to group C – and from what i see, group C (anti-ascended) is significantly bigger than group A (pro-ascended).

It doesn’t matter to you. Anet, however, looks at the player base as a whole, not just the parts they want to see. And the minority against Ascended gear is obviously a tiny segment of the whole, or they would have stopped at trinkets.

Klawlyt.6507:

We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

Fun Fact: The only reason there’s no direct gear progression in GW1 is because Anet at first didn’t regard their PvE content as anything else but a lengthy tutorial for what they considered was going to become endgame for every single player: PvP

However, by the time the PvE part of their game grew increasingly popular with people, they couldn’t change their whole gear system to make long term gear progression part of the game without totally screwing over balance. They didn’t build their game with that in mind, and by the time they realized it, all they could do was to add a crapton of different skins and a few pve-only skills and titles that made you marginally more powerful each expansion/campaign.

The way gear worked in GW1 was the result of a miscalculation on Anets part, which unexpectedly attracted a set of players with preferences they never really intended to cater to.

Hell, even their president regards GW1 as a stale game. It’s pretty clear by now that, had they known GW1 PvE would’ve become that popular on its own before they started building it, they would’ve added long term vertical gear progression before it even launched.

Algreg.3629:

that path was decided at the end of last year and has been controversly and thoroughly discussed. GW2 has a mild gear progression now and it will stay I presume. You can either (begrudgingly) accept it or stop bothering at all at the loss of character power.

While you’re absolutely right, the actual implementation will determine which course of action I choose. Of course, if the latter is bad enough it will lead to the third option: quitting GW2.

ASB.4295:

Klawlyt.6507:

We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

Fun Fact: The only reason there’s no direct gear progression in GW1 is because Anet at first didn’t regard their PvE content as anything else but a lengthy tutorial for what they considered was going to become endgame for every single player: PvP

However, by the time the PvE part of their game grew increasingly popular with people, they couldn’t change their whole gear system to make long term gear progression part of the game without totally screwing over balance. They didn’t build their game with that in mind, and by the time they realized it, all they could do was to add a crapton of different skins and a few pve-only skills and titles that made you marginally more powerful each expansion/campaign.

The way gear worked in GW1 was the result of a miscalculation on Anets part, which unexpectedly attracted a set of players with preferences they never really intended to cater to.

Hell, even their president regards GW1 as a stale game. It’s pretty clear by now that, had they known GW1 PvE would’ve become that popular on its own before they started building it, they would’ve added long term vertical gear progression before it even launched.

Believe it or not I know all that. It doesn’t change the fact that GW2 was still heavily marketed to folks who were sick of classic mmo’s and sick of the grind. And while I know mmo’s aren’t static, the game launched with easy to acquire BiS gear coupled with literal YEARS of messaging that the game wasn’t going to come out with a new tier of gear every couple months. And literally 3 months after launch, they introduced a new tier of gear. They’ve wisely held off the next round for another 9 months, but here we are again.

Basically we thought they were saying, “we know new tiers of gear are a pain in the kitten , so we’re not going to make you go through that!”

What it turns out they were saying was, “we know new tiers of gear are a pain in the kitten so we’re only going to make you go through it about once a year!”

tolunart.2095:

It doesn’t matter to you.

Oh, no, that’s a pure math. If group B doesn’t care either way, then it simply doesn’t count in that calculation – after all, not introducing ascended gear would not make them unhappy as well. What does count is whether the change kittened off more people than it pleased. From what i can see, it did – there are far less ascended gear defenders than opposers even now, when a lot of people that didn’t lik its introduction have left.

ASB.4295:

It’s pretty clear by now that, had they known GW1 PvE would’ve become that popular on its own before they started building it, they would’ve added long term vertical gear progression before it even launched.

And the irony is that if they did that, it would not have become so popular – most likely no more than Aion now is. And, as a consequence, GW2 would have never been made at all.

I don’t see any reason why it would have been so hard to add a bit of gear progression to GW1. Adding armor with increased protection, weapons with higher damage, runes with better stats, or even allowing more attribute points to spend should be fairly easy. It wouldn’t mess up balance because everything goes up at the same rate for everyone, which is also why vertical progression is pointless. You get 10% stronger, but so does the other guy/the enemy.

pvp balance wouldn’t have been effected at all, because pvp characters in GW1 started out with max gear anyway. The only balance issues at all would have been from the time required for the gear grinds/progression hindering new players, alts, and gear sets for alternate builds…which are the problems we are facing in GW2 right now.

While it’s true that pvp was intended to be the major part of GW1’s end game, even after it became obvious that the fanbase was more interested in pve, vertical progression wasn’t left out because it wasn’t possible. Vertical progression was left out because they didn’t want it. It was clear they didn’t want it for GW2 as well, till they decided to start pandering to the fans of other games instead of their own fans.

GW1 became stale because it was an old game, with technological limitations in the gameplay mechanics. Things like the combat system, or the quest system not being adaptable to the more active and dynamic systems they wanted for GW2. It became stale because they had created more skills than they were capable of balancing. It was stale because there were very few people working on new content late in the game’s life.

tolunart.2095:

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I dunno, I think the third group (“we don’t care, we’ll get it if we need it”) is bigger than both combined.

It’s quite likely true – but, as i said before, it doesn’t matter. While that group is not protesting against introducing ascended weapons, they would also not protest against removing them. As far as the ascended gear is concerned, they don’t count.

tolunart.2095:

I’m certain of it. For good or ill, Anet tries to include something for every segment of their player base. What happens is that pleasing group A will kitten off group C, while Group B doesn’t care either way. Group B is generally larger than A + C, so overall the game itself and the players are not affected by any of the changes.

Again, group B does not matter here. What matters is the relation of group A to group C – and from what i see, group C (anti-ascended) is significantly bigger than group A (pro-ascended).

It doesn’t matter to you. Anet, however, looks at the player base as a whole, not just the parts they want to see. And the minority against Ascended gear is obviously a tiny segment of the whole, or they would have stopped at trinkets.

Not really.

Large majority of LOTRO didnt want raiding gear, guess what, they introduced raiding gear inspite of it, game loses subs very fast, 2 years later LOTRO goes F2P with public apology to players about raiding gear (radiance gear). Too little to late.

SWG was what it was, had audience that it had until someone in SOE/LA decided that NGE is needed, SWG crashes and burns.

…
….

They think they can get away with it, but it ALWAYS backfires.

And guess what: there were always people like you saying exact things like you do. Didnt help those games though.

Klawlyt.6507:

Yaki.9563:

I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable.

Here’s what you’re missing. They already made a game like that. It’s called Every Other MMORPG On The Market. And guess what? That game has never been able to hold my attention. EOMMORPGotM has sold well because lots of folks like that style of play, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But a huge part of Guild Wars 2’s marketing was to people who were burned out by playing EOMMORPGotM. I log in and run off to WvW and revel in the fact that I can play in a massivley multiplayer online space and not have to worry about running on the gear treadmill. Part of why I don’t like leveling alts is because I have to start looking at gear again instead of just vendoring it.

As soon as a game starts feeling like a job, I stop. I have a job for that purpose, except it gives me actual money. I am not alone in this sentiment, and GW2 was supposed to be a little paradise for those with similar mindsets to mine. We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

“Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not grinding to the fun reward.”

I cannot quote this post enough. I’ve played several other Online RPGs, MMO and other, and the one thing that drives me away from a game fastest is the feeling that I am playing to farm gear instead of playing for fun.

Ascended is slowly moving me in this direction. At least with the laurel system, I am working towards ascended in tandem with my normal gameplay via dailies and monthlies. If all ascended weapons are pushed into crafting, of which I never had any intent of leveling the weapon related disciplines, this effort no longer parallels my normal gameplay for fun.

You want to improve ascended gear while retaining higher stats? Make sure it is available via all gameplay types without hurting people that want multiple gear sets.

You can write a book here. They always will say:

GRIND YOUR MODAFAKA ASCENDED GEAR AND S*T*F*U*

marnick.4305:

Klawlyt.6507:

Yaki.9563:

I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable.

Here’s what you’re missing. They already made a game like that. It’s called Every Other MMORPG On The Market. And guess what? That game has never been able to hold my attention. EOMMORPGotM has sold well because lots of folks like that style of play, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But a huge part of Guild Wars 2’s marketing was to people who were burned out by playing EOMMORPGotM. I log in and run off to WvW and revel in the fact that I can play in a massivley multiplayer online space and not have to worry about running on the gear treadmill. Part of why I don’t like leveling alts is because I have to start looking at gear again instead of just vendoring it.

As soon as a game starts feeling like a job, I stop. I have a job for that purpose, except it gives me actual money. I am not alone in this sentiment, and GW2 was supposed to be a little paradise for those with similar mindsets to mine. We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

“Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not grinding to the fun reward.”

Fully agree to this post. I also played EOMMORPGotM and totally burned out on gear progression. I also have a job that’s both more fun than EOMMORPGotM and gives me real money at the same time.

So please, A.net, don’t cater to the playerbase of EOMMORPGotM because that’s the game your playerbase ran away from. Those who’d rather play EOMMORPGotM can do that. EOMMORPGotM is still available, and often f2p too.

This
I am not going to say any more about ascended gear because I have said it all since the 15th of November.
I agree that OP’s suggestion would at least make the best of a horrible turn of events that I so far have tried to ignore the best I can.

With the addition of Ascendant Weapons and Armour I fear very much that new content will require it otherwise why even bother releasing it.
PvE is easy in exotics- can you imagine what it will be like in all Ascendant kit?

They are almost putting themselves in a position where they will have to release content for it.
If that happens we have a gear gated game that requires you to get the gear to do the content- I will stop playing before that happens and I LOVE GW2
I just don’t have the time and energy to deal with that kitten

I agree with the OP’s post wholeheartedly. I hated Ascended trinkets, and I hate the very idea of having to go out of my way again for another stat stick, and then another stat stick if I want to try something new, and then another stat stick for my alt, and then another for my other alt.

I’m done with grinding. For some inexplicable reason I decided to stick with the game after Ascended trinkets made me angry. Now I’m beginning to regret that decision. If Ascended stats only functioned in PvE I’d stop caring, but they unfortunately impact my performance in WvW solo roaming.

Klawlyt.6507:

Believe it or not I know all that. It doesn’t change the fact that GW2 was still heavily marketed to folks who were sick of classic mmo’s and sick of the grind. And while I know mmo’s aren’t static, the game launched with easy to acquire BiS gear coupled with literal YEARS of messaging that the game wasn’t going to come out with a new tier of gear every couple months. And literally 3 months after launch, they introduced a new tier of gear. They’ve wisely held off the next round for another 9 months, but here we are again.

They “excused” themselves by saying Ascended gear was planned to be in the game at release, bad excuse but still an excuse.

3 months after release they introduced Ascended Rings and Ascended Backpieces in Fractals, 2 months later (5 total) we got Ascended Amulets with the Laurel change, 1 month later (6 total) we got Ascended Accessories with the Guild Missions. Now 6 months later (12 total) we get Ascended Weapons through crafting.

They are adding Ascended quality gear in either new, or old activities. There is a good possibility that Ascended Armor will come from Dungeons (I can dream, can I?)

There is no indication that they will release a new tier of gear anytime soon.

Morrigan.2809:

With the addition of Ascendant Weapons and Armour I fear very much that new content will require it otherwise why even bother releasing it.
PvE is easy in exotics- can you imagine what it will be like in all Ascendant kit?

Well everything in the game is doable in Rares or even Masterwok gear, even the newer content. I know players in sub-optimal rare gear (and not even max level) beat Liadri – the “hardest” encounter in the game so far. The rest of the encounters are by far easier. They will first need to add some content doable only with Exotics first, before going into Ascended-only content.

The only exception is higher end fractals which requires higher agony resist of course.

maddoctor.2738:

Morrigan.2809:

With the addition of Ascendant Weapons and Armour I fear very much that new content will require it otherwise why even bother releasing it.
PvE is easy in exotics- can you imagine what it will be like in all Ascendant kit?

Well everything in the game is doable in Rares or even Masterwok gear, even the newer content. I know players in sub-optimal rare gear (and not even max level) beat Liadri – the “hardest” encounter in the game so far. The rest of the encounters are by far easier. They will first need to add some content doable only with Exotics first, before going into Ascended-only content.

The only exception is higher end fractals which requires higher agony resist of course.

I agree and this was sort of my point- why add gear there is no content for unless they plan on releasing such content?

If they do release such content highly doubt they will label it Ascended only- or even mention it- people will just wipe and wipe until they figure out it can be done with Ascended.

This is just pure speculation on my part sure- but I really cannot see another reason for Ascended weapons and armor

Even High level fractals only require AR.

get pve out of your heads for once those saying time gated content is fine all seem to play only pve wich is why they dont see a problem so yeah go to wvw with Blue gear and face a player with ascended and fully exotic gear and hit each other with auto attack tell me how its the same then .

again the problem is the fact that everything is time gated wich pretty much forces players to not make and use alts at all

pretty much takes about 2-4 months (gg casual players) to get ONE set of ascended gear for one character wich means you gotta spend 2-4 more months if you want to get another set for another build and 2-4 months per set per alt you’d basically have to spend 2 years to get 2 sets for about 3-4 characters (unless you grind fractals and are so extremely lucky you get the ascended items you wanted)

dunno about you guys but i’d hope to have multiple characters with multiple viable builds before i turn 90 years old .

The question I have is, what will be the cost of one piece of ascended gear? First you must level to 500? I have a feeling that is going to be quite costly. Secondly then you must make the T7 mats which probably will not be cheap.
I would love to know the cost. My guess 50-100 gold a piece. who knows.

Sardonia.8196:

The question I have is, what will be the cost of one piece of ascended gear? First you must level to 500? I have a feeling that is going to be quite costly. Secondly then you must make the T7 mats which probably will not be cheap.
I would love to know the cost. My guess 50-100 gold a piece. who knows.

all i can say is it better be like Legendary armor with all sorts of glowy and sparkly effects Twilight anyone?

Sardonia.8196:

The question I have is, what will be the cost of one piece of ascended gear? First you must level to 500? I have a feeling that is going to be quite costly. Secondly then you must make the T7 mats which probably will not be cheap.
I would love to know the cost. My guess 50-100 gold a piece. who knows.

Furthermore, what if you never leveled the three weapon related crafts to begin with? Add the cost for 0-400 of three crafts to your calculations (I hear artificer is relatively cheap, but weapon smithing is pretty expensive?).

MikaHR.1978:

They think they can get away with it, but it ALWAYS backfires.

And guess what: there were always people like you saying exact things like you do. Didnt help those games though.

New Coke, too. And Netflix separating their service into two parts to charge their customers twice. Yes, people do make mistakes. No one is perfect. But sometimes they get it right, and that’s why they keep trying.

I don’t own any NCSoft stock. I don’t get a paycheck from Anet. I don’t care if the game crashes and burns or not, for the moment I’m having fun playing it and that’s all I care about.

tolunart.2095:

MikaHR.1978:

They think they can get away with it, but it ALWAYS backfires.

And guess what: there were always people like you saying exact things like you do. Didnt help those games though.

New Coke, too. And Netflix separating their service into two parts to charge their customers twice. Yes, people do make mistakes. No one is perfect. But sometimes they get it right, and that’s why they keep trying.

I don’t own any NCSoft stock. I don’t get a paycheck from Anet. I don’t care if the game crashes and burns or not, for the moment I’m having fun playing it and that’s all I care about.

Yes its pretty obvious you dont care about the game, the only sad thing is that ANet dcided to listen to you (and the likes of you)

THAT is what is smelly about situation and is same as in all the games that tried it: they want to cater to people that dont care about the game in the first place while kitten ing off their loyal customers in the process.

Its not really rocket science to conculde is it:

a) good thing
b) bad thing

I have to say, these threads are so funny to read.

My two cents

I myself and almost everyone I play with enjoy the ascended items. They are not hard to get and we getting them you feel like you have accomplished getting that character finished. I am not a hardcore player, I don’t do fractals over level 29. I have 3 80s fully geared in ascended without even trying really hard.

So I must be in group C. Well here is the thing about group C. Most of the are happy with the changes, so human nature is to just keeping going cause you are happy and don’t need to voice anything about it. Group A on the other hand isn’t happy and is going to voice their opinion so they can be heard and hopefully have something changed. The problem with saying group A is larger then group C, just because of forum post is faulty because Group C isn’t going to post as much because they are happy.

No for all of you that have a disagreement on the ascended stuff. How many of you own an ascended item? We knew back in November they were going to keep adding ascended to the game, if you was against it, then you shouldn’t have gotten any in the time frame because it is against your playing style, correct? I have a feeling group A and group C are closer in size then you may want to admit. Then you figure group B into this as not caring either way, and what ever direction ANET decides to go with the majority will be on there side because of group B. You can’t discount them, because which ever way ANET chooses to do something the majority will always be on their side.

Just my two cent and opinion.

I hate ascended items. I have them.

But I also build each and everyone or my builds around the ascended gear I have. I don’t get new ascended gear, I adjust the exotics to compensate.

for example.
Here’s my version of Osicat’s Mist Mesmer 2.0
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsdWl0zipXUToGb9IiJFEHyh6B2BefXJF82FC-jEzAYMBRKCEZBgIAm8W0a2Lg1sioxqXw0nAKXFZtLq3ADA-w

Here is my version of Osicats Heavy Mesmer 3.0. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsdWl0zipXUToGb9IiJFEHyh6B4hdfXJF82FC-jEzAYMBRSUgICgJ/Am9iWCMpVwioxqXw0nAKXFZtLq3ADA-w

And here is my PvE mesmer
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsdRl0zipXUToGb9ICqHYn29dkU0apWJF82FC-j0yAYLBRKCEZBgKAm8KiGbNrIas6FM9JgyVRW7i6NwAA-w

In each case, all trinkets are exactly the same.

Now when ascended weapons come out, I guess each weapon will be exactly the same. when ascended armor comes out nothing will ever change except traits.

Sounds like fun.

Hjorje.9453:

I myself and almost everyone I play with enjoy the ascended items. They are not hard to get and we getting them you feel like you have accomplished getting that character finished. I am not a hardcore player, I don’t do fractals over level 29. I have 3 80s fully geared in ascended without even trying really hard.

Emphasis mine.

It’s funny because I remember getting my main finished back in October when I finalized my first Exotic set with decent skins.

Then November came along, and I was given the opportunity to finish him again with a pair of shiny rings.

Then in February, I finished my main yet again with a fancy new amulet.

In March, I was given the chance to finish him yet again with a couple of earrings.

Next Tuesday, I can start finishing my main a fifth time with some weapons.

How long before I have to finish my main yet again with a set of armor?

It seems that somewhere, someone has lost the definition of finish. The sad part about it all is that I only ever wanted really cool skins to be released. I have never truly finished any of my characters in terms of aesthetics, and probably never will.

How long before the next tier of gear rolls around and we can start the finishing cycle anew?

TooBz.3065:

I hate ascended items. I have them.

Count me into this group. I have them on 2 characters, for a single build on each of those characters. Unfortunately those characters also have 1 and 2 other full sets of trinkets that I couldn’t replace with ascended. I could have replaced another set by now had I not spent laurels on other things like wvw infusions or non-ascended gear related rewards. I also have 6 other characters that I play just as much, that have no ascended trinkets at all.

With 8 characters and almost every one of them having more than 1 build/full set of gear (I want this for them all), it would take me a couple years to get just the ascended trinkets.

I think some people need to re-read this.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/
That blog lays out exactly what is wrong with this type of gear acquisition system. Yet a few months after this article was posted, Anet went down the very road they had written an entire article chastising.

But what if your business model isn’t one based on a subscription, and your content-design motivations aren’t driven by creating mechanics to keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?

This is exactly what a timegate is.
And to answer the question….No, Colin. This is not fun.

Sardonia.8196:

The question I have is, what will be the cost of one piece of ascended gear? First you must level to 500? I have a feeling that is going to be quite costly. Secondly then you must make the T7 mats which probably will not be cheap.
I would love to know the cost. My guess 50-100 gold a piece. who knows.

I’m thinking there’s less “level to 500” and more “they start at 400 with some forms and increase in availability to level 475 where everything opens up and 500 is the cap because 00s are easier to work with”.

BondageBill.4021:

Hjorje.9453:

I myself and almost everyone I play with enjoy the ascended items. They are not hard to get and we getting them you feel like you have accomplished getting that character finished. I am not a hardcore player, I don’t do fractals over level 29. I have 3 80s fully geared in ascended without even trying really hard.

Emphasis mine.

It’s funny because I remember getting my main finished back in October when I finalized my first Exotic set with decent skins.

Then November came along, and I was given the opportunity to finish him again with a pair of shiny rings.

Then in February, I finished my main yet again with a fancy new amulet.

In March, I was given the chance to finish him yet again with a couple of earrings.

Next Tuesday, I can start finishing my main a fifth time with some weapons.

How long before I have to finish my main yet again with a set of armor?

It seems that somewhere, someone has lost the definition of finish. The sad part about it all is that I only ever wanted really cool skins to be released. I have never truly finished any of my characters in terms of aesthetics, and probably never will.

How long before the next tier of gear rolls around and we can start the finishing cycle anew?

I probably should have stated that better. Since we have known that we are getting ascended items for everything (armor and weapons) since November, I have been working towards that completionist point. I have an end goal for my lvl 80s, and that is to have each of them in there main setup fully ascended, then it will be finished, not finished each time they introduce the next item. That is my goal, no one else’s (others probably have the same goal). I haven’t been told that is what I have to do, it is what I want to do.

Now if ANET goes and adds another tier of gear after ascended, then I will be in the same boat as a lot of players in this thread. I gave ANET the benefit of the doubt when they stated that ascended was supposed to be in there at launch but it didn’t make it. So I am “assuming” this is it and would have been it from the beginning. Now ANET messed up and they should have let us know there was one more tier from the beginning and they just hadn’t time to finish getting it ready before launch instead of just throwing it on us.

If ANET would have been up front about it from the beginning, would more of you have a different idea about ascended? I just took them on their word this time and have played that way since.

Hjorje.9453:

I gave ANET the benefit of the doubt when they stated that ascended was supposed to be in there at launch but it didn’t make it. So I am “assuming” this is it and would have been it from the beginning. Now ANET messed up and they should have let us know there was one more tier from the beginning and they just hadn’t time to finish getting it ready before launch instead of just throwing it on us.

I think what was said was that they should have or wished they would have included it at launch. That wasn’t anything more than PR to attempt to calm the outcry against the ascended tier. Pre-release blog posts, interviews, and articles continued to enforce exotic as the highest tier. This remained true even for information coming out a mere few weeks before release.

The ascended tier is a fully post-launch reaction to the minority of players that rushed to finish the personal story, do map completion, get a legendary, and then complained they had nothing to do. They could have suggested making alts, and even getting all of those things for the alts. Instead, they opted to make a move to appease this portion of the playerbase without taking any consideration for the detrimental effects it had on the playstyles of the rest of the community.

ASB.4295:

Fun Fact: The only reason there’s no direct gear progression in GW1 is because Anet at first didn’t regard their PvE content as anything else but a lengthy tutorial for what they considered was going to become endgame for every single player: PvP

Yet GW1 survived for 7 years and is still going.

Well even still if that was true, it was introduce early enough and with warning more items would be added that 8 months later it shouldn’t be a problem. The problem I see is if they add another tier after this, then to me it will be a problem. (My opinion).

But to the topic at hand, I myself enjoy the ascended items and I am glad they are getting to the point of having all the slots of ascended introduce to the game. Got something to work for besides my other side projects.

I just hope the weapons are things I’d actually want to be seen with and not, you know, the Pistol of Zillyhoo . . .

morrolan.9608:

ASB.4295:

Fun Fact: The only reason there’s no direct gear progression in GW1 is because Anet at first didn’t regard their PvE content as anything else but a lengthy tutorial for what they considered was going to become endgame for every single player: PvP

Yet GW1 survived for 7 years and is still going.

I don’t see GW2 lasting that long if they stay on the current direction. They’ll have to keep releasing more and more higher stat gear to keep the main-only progression addicts playing, which is only going to drive away those of us that care about gear for our alts. The more casual players will keep playing till they get tired of the only new content being temporary events.

Will their business model survive on only the single-char subset of hardcores and the casuals?

Do these crowds even use the gemstore? I’m going to guess they don’t, at least not as much as the player groups in between. The single-char progression addicts aren’t as likely to care about the gemstore because it doesn’t make their character more powerful. They might buy gems with gold, but who’s going to be supporting the supply side of the gem market? Do the casuals care enough about the game to spend their real money on it? What will the gem trade market and the gemstore sales be like without the mid-ground of the playerbase?

mrstealth.6701:

morrolan.9608:

ASB.4295:

Fun Fact: The only reason there’s no direct gear progression in GW1 is because Anet at first didn’t regard their PvE content as anything else but a lengthy tutorial for what they considered was going to become endgame for every single player: PvP

Yet GW1 survived for 7 years and is still going.

I don’t see GW2 lasting that long if they stay on the current direction.

Ultima Online still is running via emulation in some places, and I think is still officially online. So is EverQuest (both officially and via emulation). And despite a hiatus, I know Meridian 59 was online about six to twelve months ago.

Longevity isn’t a measure of success, it’s a measure of how dedicated the players are to your game. Or rather, what they did in your game.

Hjorje.9453:

I probably should have stated that better. Since we have known that we are getting ascended items for everything (armor and weapons) since November, I have been working towards that completionist point. I have an end goal for my lvl 80s, and that is to have each of them in there main setup fully ascended, then it will be finished, not finished each time they introduce the next item. That is my goal, no one else’s (others probably have the same goal). I haven’t been told that is what I have to do, it is what I want to do.

Yep, I agree with this goal whole heartily, as this is what I am trying to do. I’m giving ANET the benefit of the doubt as well since a) it was “supposed” to be there before launch, b) will benefit players in the long term (better equipment means faster damage / better survivability means less grindy game-play), and c) it supports fractal runs (which I love doing). What makes me rather happy is how spaced out in time the weapons have been from the trinkets in that it allowed me to almost fully equip 5 alts (the other alts are still lvl 60 and under). Imagine if they added everything at once, it would be a horrible nightmare for completionists.

I realize now that by spacing out the ascended offerings ANET is giving alt-a-holics a chance to equip completely without being overwhelmed. If ANET wanted to cater to single character gamers, then they would release alot of the ascended items all at once, and perhaps not time gate it.

The only issue for me is the possible “account bound time gate” which hasn’t yet been confirmed (theres huge speculation here, and I even knee jerked that it would happen). I think eventually ascended equipment will be sold on the market allowing people who haven’t leveled their crafting professions some leeway.

But back to some assertions that casual players are being abused by this whole ascended thing… thats not true. Its some of the hardcore / completionist players who are being hurt. I always thought that I was casual until I realized how much time and money I actually put into this game. Then I realized that the majority of the players (who are reportedly casual) simply want a game which is fun (see tolunart). Others like me and Hjorje want “perfect characters”, but simply put, if we could obtain ascended equipment right away we would burn our selves out to do so. ANET’s solution of time gating ascended equipment and spacing out the offering is simply a prevention of completionist and some hardcore players from burning out…

Anywho! Either way lets support this game in a positive fashion instead of being negative and give input for ascended armor which will make it easier / more friendly to be used by alot of playstyles at the same time…

ProxyDamage.9826:

all of the evidence I’ve found points towards you being wrong. I provided some.

No you didn’t.

Hjorje.9453:

I probably should have stated that better. Since we have known that we are getting ascended items for everything (armor and weapons) since November, I have been working towards that completionist point. I have an end goal for my lvl 80s, and that is to have each of them in there main setup fully ascended, then it will be finished, not finished each time they introduce the next item. That is my goal, no one else’s (others probably have the same goal). I haven’t been told that is what I have to do, it is what I want to do.

Now if ANET goes and adds another tier of gear after ascended, then I will be in the same boat as a lot of players in this thread. I gave ANET the benefit of the doubt when they stated that ascended was supposed to be in there at launch but it didn’t make it. So I am “assuming” this is it and would have been it from the beginning. Now ANET messed up and they should have let us know there was one more tier from the beginning and they just hadn’t time to finish getting it ready before launch instead of just throwing it on us.

If ANET would have been up front about it from the beginning, would more of you have a different idea about ascended? I just took them on their word this time and have played that way since.

I can respect your position. The problem, for me, is that I see no reason to believe that ascended will be the final tier. I also do not believe ascended gear and vertical progression were planned from the beginning at all.

1. Anet spent 5 years saying that the game would launch when it was ready. Three months after launch they turned around and stated ascended gear was planned to be in the game, but they didn’t have time to implement it. Obviously, one of those two statements is false.

2. Additionally, there was never any mention of things such as fractals, agony or ascended gear pre-launch or in the original game at launch. If these things were truly planned before launch, wouldn’t we have at least heard about them?

3. Also, each release of new ascended gear has been accompanied by a new feature and means of acquisition. This does not seem like something that was thoroughly planned in advance, but something that was conceived in short order and tacked onto other features (e.g. added to the daily overhaul when players complained about how dailies were worthless, added to Guild Missions when players complained that guilds were worthless) in order to increase their value.

4. To the best of my knowledge, Anet has never said that ascended will be the final tier. In fact, to the best of my recollection, when directly asked during a reddit AMA in November (iirc?), an Anet rep said that they currently had no plans to go beyond ascended but they could not rule out any future possibilities. Coupled with the consistent message that they do not want to release a new tier every 3-6 months, I can only infer that they are leaving the door wide open for future tiers.

To your final question, if Anet had been upfront about ascended gear from pre-launch, I would certainly have a different opinion on it. Unfortunately, it appears to me that they are using it as a band-aid fix to keep people interested in chasing stats.

That’s why I post against ascended gear when they release new pieces to the set. I have no desire to continually chase stats. I really, really like this game, and I don’t want to see it ruined, for me, by a gear treadmill (no matter how slow moving). For me, the fastest thing Anet can do to make me quit this game is make me feel like I’m playing for the sake of earning gear instead of playing for the sake of having fun.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

Then I realized that the majority of the players (who are reportedly casual) simply want a game which is fun (see tolunart). Others like me and Hjorje want “perfect characters”, but simply put, if we could obtain ascended equipment right away we would burn our selves out to do so. ANET’s solution of time gating ascended equipment and spacing out the offering is simply a prevention of completionist and some hardcore players from burning out…

Exactly… there are relatively few truly casual viewpoints on the forums because almost by definition they don’t make the kind of effort required to keep up with these threads. Like my wife, who would rather play the game than talk about it, does the dailies about once a week, only plays those aspects of the LS that she finds fun, doesn’t even know what fractals or ascended gear is, etc.

Collecting every weapon and armor skin, or every mini-pet in the game? Not casual. Min/maxing your main with BiS gear and grinding for days to get a +5 stat increase? Not casual. Checking off every achievement on the list even if you have to do content you hate? Not casual.

In addition, time gating material doesn’t affect casuals at all because they do not grind their fingers off until they get the new shiny, they either get it or they don’t, either way there’s something coming in two weeks to replace it. In fact it’s not so healthy to consume the game in such huge chunks, so forcing hardcore gamers to spread their game play out a bit is actually a good thing.

The grinding attitude comes from sub-based games, which rewarded hours played more than skill because the longer they kept the player in the game, the more money they made. Anet doesn’t follow this business model, so there is no reason for them to reward players for logging in for 10 hrs a day.

tolunart.2095:

so there is no reason for them to reward players for logging in for 10 hrs a day.

There is no reason to punish them, either. Which is what making the timegates account bound does. While I prefer to not have more powerful gear that is intended to take a long time to acquire, I am completely against limiting that acquisition on an account basis.

I see no issue with allowing players to use their extra playtime to get the same things done on more than one character. They won’t be getting things any faster than someone with only one character. They only players they would be passing by are the ones working on more alts than they had time for, or those not doing every daily bit of progress…who would be behind in any case.

mrstealth.6701:

There is no reason to punish them, either. Which is what making the timegates account bound does. While I prefer to not have more powerful gear that is intended to take a long time to acquire, I am completely against limiting that acquisition on an account basis.

While I agree with you that account bound time gating is not good, I don’t say thakittens punishment per se. Punishment is allowing completion players grind for 100 hours straight in CoF for 1 precursor. Punishment is preventing completion players from obtaining said precursor if they are told they can grind 100 hours straight in CoF in exchange for said precursor. Punishment is giving a precursor out 6 months later to anyone who did 100 hours of CoF whether consecutive or not. Allowing completion players like you or I to get what we want after 100 hours of grind, without a gate, is like allowing a child access to any sweet they want all at once. While I think most completion players are able to put a halt on the game so they don’t burn out, I think some are just like me who feel good with completion and will stop at almost nothing for it. Time gating is the ONLY way to help manage this compulsive behavior, outside of professional help. Where as completion gamers who CAN pause their playstyle, please recognize that there are other completion gamers who CAN’T do so.

Blame it on me. Blame it on that 1 korean guy who played WoW for 2 weeks straight to get to lvl 80 whatever with the BiS equipment and died of a heart attack thereafter. You can try to blame it on ANET, but when ANET is responsible for a huge chunk of time of peoples’ lives outside of work, sleep, and family I’m sure ANET has a sense of responsibility to keep us from burning out. Just like us as young parents have the sense to not give all the possible candy to our young kids (age demographic is 25-35).

VoxShatterfall.5470:

Allowing completion players like you or I to get what we want after 100 hours of grind, without a gate, is like allowing a child access to any sweet they want all at once. While I think most completion players are able to put a halt on the game so they don’t burn out, I think some are just like me who feel good with completion and will stop at almost nothing for it. Time gating is the ONLY way to help manage this compulsive behavior, outside of professional help.

Reminds me of the GW1:
“You have been playing for x hours. Please take a break.”

edit: I still hate time gating

Wukunlin.8461:

VoxShatterfall.5470:

Allowing completion players like you or I to get what we want after 100 hours of grind, without a gate, is like allowing a child access to any sweet they want all at once. While I think most completion players are able to put a halt on the game so they don’t burn out, I think some are just like me who feel good with completion and will stop at almost nothing for it. Time gating is the ONLY way to help manage this compulsive behavior, outside of professional help.

Reminds me of the GW1:
“You have been playing for x hours. Please take a break.”

edit: I still hate time gating

I once left my game running doing Lucky title in Nine Rings with four stacks of tickets.

“You have been playing for 16 hours. Please take a break.”

. . . and I still didn’t get very close.

Well, one thing I think we can all agree on is that there are three main ways to play this game. Maybe a fourth but it would be a stretch.

1. S/T PvP. Ascended gear won’t be a factor.
2. WvW. Ascended gear will be a factor and already is.
3. PvE. Ascended gear won’t be a factor has long as you can jump, dodge, and they don’t implement “inspect” or “gear score” or “look for group”.
4. Black Market. If you factor in those who only play the market then ascended gear / craftables will come into play.

Out of the 4 listed, WvW will have the biggest impact for most players. You may be asking Crapgame why that is. Well, simply put it restricts your gear and build options to be honest. Ascended gear, if you play only WvW, comes at a slower rate than say someone who also PvE’s and does Fractals. Less ascended gear means you will need to buy smart and it will limit your builds based on gear and stat distribution. Really simple when you look at the availability vs. gear and builds most people carry now. I carry 3 sets of armor for builds and every weapon my Guardian can use….

Also note that while a few said WvW doesn’t matter because it is really a group effort. You are correct, it is a group. However, you are incorrect in that group is rather open ended. It can be 2, 3, 6, 8, or even 100. WvW does not always mean you run with a ball of 50 other players or following a blue tag. WvW is composed of many layers to include, but not limited to:

1. Roaming parties
2. Hit and run supply and sentry camps
3. Multi group coordinating tower takes
4. Distraction groups
5. Hide and seek or nip and tuck – small groups pick off rear of zerg making them stop
6. Control or restrict access while other parties attack
7. Contest waypoints

So today ascended gear isn’t really a be all or breaking of the WvW game has we know it. However, has they “introduce” new items the stats are additive and the gap between those who have and have not will only widen. Zerg warfare, no. It won’t mater as much unless you are a supporting player. However, the smaller scale fighters or roamers, yeah. It will make a huge difference.

Now…just how much of the player base is WvW let alone any of the possible ways I listed to play? I have no idea. The gear isn’t going anywhere so we have to either deal with it or find something else. Or, Arena Net will see the PvE vs. WvW difference that is already present (PvE gets 10x more attention in everything compared equally) and they just treat it like t/sPvP and be done with it which is my choice. Don’t let the gear in to begin with and this is a non issue…