Guild Wars 2

““But its gems, not cash!” You realize it would probably cost them more in transaction fees to try to refund 10$ to everyone that demanded cash? Additionally, they would need time to verify that the person actually did purchase the gems with cash, and not gold?”

Why should it be the concern of the paying customer if it costs Anet transaction fees?

They placed the item for sale in their in game store and actively encouraged people to buy it with email and front page advertising, many bought gems specifically to purchase this armour skin and now have 800 gems they wouldn’t otherwise have wanted.

So while Anet have legally covered their obligations ethically the situation is different with a large number of people feeling very let down by their behaviour.

This game has become like the movie Snakes on a Plane. People comment enough, they get what they want. So maybe if those who are upset on the opposing side comment enough to out balance those who commented for the change, the tide will shift yet again. Anet does what the players want, and it seems like a lot of paying players want their armor back. Maybe we just need to fill the forum with comments and will get our way like crying little babies.

DPrime.3954:

This game has become like the movie Snakes on a Plane. People comment enough, they get what they want. So maybe if those who are upset on the opposing side comment enough to out balance those who commented for the change, the tide will shift yet again. Anet does what the players want, and it seems like a lot of paying players want their armor back. Maybe we just need to fill the forum with comments and will get our way like crying little babies.

No. The whole thing was a disaster from the start. At this point Anet is in damage control mode by recalling the old armor and offering refunds. I seriously doubt they are going to do anything else regarding this issue. They tossed out an, in my opinion, sloppy remake and said, “Come get your gem refunds.” I’m pretty certain the state of the armor now is where it will stand.

I do find it somewhat amusing that people this didn’t even affect are spending so much time in this thread trying to tell people that it did affect they don’t have a right to be unhappy with the end result. I can almost see them snickering behind their monitor.

My big question is, why has Anet not commented on this at all? We’re 8 pages in. Anet has been monitoring the forum and merging topics.

As Anet how to do you feel about your lack of integrity, by first destroying the value of human T3 culture armor, and then recanting the armor upsetting a paying player base?

I understand the screwed if you do and screwed if you don’t, but who messed up so bad to let this legitimately come into play. There are over 300 employees at Anet, did not one person speak up and say this was a bad idea?

KOPPER.1458:

More like third class or lower since we lost something we paid for on the complaints of those who didn’t

There are different ways to “pay” for things.

Some how I doubt that if someone bought the armor they wanted it taken away or changed. If they bought it, then I would guess they liked it.

IT IS THE ONLY GOOD LOOKING LIGHT ARMOR SKIN THAT BALANCES SEXY, CLASSY AND AN AIR OF POWER PROPERLY

This is an opinion, not everyone shares it.

Gem store is a real money store primarily, it’s entire design and the items and deals it offers are meant to bring in real money. The fact you can get gems with in game gold or the rare occasion with achievement points is totally secondary to the entire point of the thing. It is reasonable to assume “most” used a gem purchase to buy the armor, something arenanet is perfectly capable of finding out for themselves if they so wanted considering the thing was on sale for less than a day.

Then maybe we should replace current human t3 with the feathered stuff?

Go look at the sets on actual characters… feathered was designed from the ground up to go on the human armor model, check the proportions, how it accentuates that better-than barbie figure, and the specific placement of each specific piece of the set on the model. It’s perfect, bland, rather more like something a fancy prostitute or a showgirl might wear, but you clearly like it.
Compare if you can, the flamekissed armor. Similarly (as with all armor designs) it is set around the human figure. What made that one, and the human t3 as well, different is that it was one of a kind in it’s ability to wrap around the frames of any race’s armor mesh without some piece of it becoming stretched too thin, shrunk too small, or having odd gaps in the pieces blown out of proportion by said stretching. Nor did it suffer from things looking out of place when they got made unusually large and were pushed out of reasonable position (norn shoulders on the females specifically because the armor mesh is based more so on those grotesque male figures).

This is functional stuff beyond the simple (but quite true) statement that my norns went from looking like goddesses to looking like street walkers. The flamekissed (and human t3 by extention) is the only armor in the entire game designed so well that it fits perfectly for what it is no matter what race or gender you so happen to throw it on. THAT is a functional success, feathered and the new flame-scammed are a prime example of a poorly designed light armor for the way they chose to build the system.

And it should be noted, I despise the art and visual appearance of humans and sylvari, it is what led me to chose norn, but as you see above, my feeling is driven as much by the functional issues of the only normalized-humanoid (not bug-eyed grimlins), non-juvenile (humans), and not twisted looking (sylvari who i feel should resemble caithe or faolin way more than they do)… Did i bring this upon myself? Game is about looks, so am I wrong to feel entitled to having access to some look that is functionally feasible, balanced properly on the character, overtly sexual without having to show half her butt crack in rather poor taste and form as a band-aid for bad fantasy fashion? Sylvari and humans with all the issues that drive me to avoid rolling them both have armor sets that pull it off, why not the norns too? The replacement here certainly doesn’t meet any of those aesthetic wants of mine. Justify why norns dont have this yet. (or anymore)

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

And do not say, to keep the old skin. This was griefing many players who bought t3 cultural armor so thats not an option.

The reason I’m asking is that it is in my opinion time to stop crying over something that’s not going to change, but to think of solutions that might give Anet idea’s.

They have the old flamekissed skin.
Maybe make it available again in the game but through the mystic force:

Ingredients (for the chest piece, but others are simular)
1 Sorcerer’s coat (the current cultural T3 skin)
1 Zojja’s Berserker Insignia (or any other ascended insiginia, but the type will determine the stats on the final item)
50 bloodstone bricks
25 Glob’s of Dark matter

The result will be (with this type of insignia) an ascended version off the old flamekissed coat with beserkers stats.
Off course, the limitation would and should be that it is for only humans to maintain the cultural armor status.

If you continue this, Anet could make all cultural skins flamekissed (well the style, it should be named different off course) and make it upgradable in a simular way.

DPrime.3954:

My big question is, why has Anet not commented on this at all? We’re 8 pages in. Anet has been monitoring the forum and merging topics.

As Anet how to do you feel about your lack of integrity, by first destroying the value of human T3 culture armor, and then recanting the armor upsetting a paying player base?

I understand the screwed if you do and screwed if you don’t, but who messed up so bad to let this legitimately come into play. There are over 300 employees at Anet, did not one person speak up and say this was a bad idea?

They have deleted a number of my posts, so somebody there is seeing it, they can’t come out and say anything because they laid a trap and then stepped right into. They already said “oops my bad” one time, and to admit they made a bigger one is something that any bad politician’s PR people would make doomsday scenario’s to make the company/individual avoid.
That and I started the entire CS dance about 36 hours ago and it isn’t resolved yet because I am asking if there is a better recourse for what has happened to me (see a post of mine above why the feathered is functionally wrong as a mesh all together) because this renders 2 entire characters of mine so fugly i can’t stand to look at them to play.
So no, and i doubt they are ever going to make a comparable skin to what was lost either, considering all that has been released as new skins since launch, and the fact that only ONE light armor functionally works perfectly on all races… I think whatever talent designed that armor has long since left arenanet.

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

And do not say, to keep the old skin. This was griefing many players who bought t3 cultural armor so thats not an option.

The reason I’m asking is that it is in my opinion time to stop crying over something that’s not going to change, but to think of solutions that might give Anet idea’s.

They have the old flamekissed skin.
Maybe make it available again in the game but through the mystic force:

Ingredients (for the chest piece, but others are simular)
1 Sorcerer’s coat (the current cultural T3 skin)
1 Zojja’s Berserker Insignia (or any other ascended insiginia, but the type will determine the stats on the final item)
50 bloodstone bricks
25 Glob’s of Dark matter

The result will be (with this type of insignia) an ascended version off the old flamekissed coat with beserkers stats.
Off course, the limitation would and should be that it is for only humans to maintain the cultural armor status.

If you continue this, Anet could make all cultural skins flamekissed (well the style, it should be named different off course) and make it upgradable in a simular way.

I guess if be fine with anyone of any race having cultural armor.

But in terms of what I would think is fair (apart from people getting to keep the skin) I honestly think what they did was perfect (though I would have liked them to give a little extra for the need to reskin our toons, so transmutations or just a few extra gems for the armor). But I really think they did the complete right thing, despite really really missing the old skin.

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

And do not say, to keep the old skin. This was griefing many players who bought t3 cultural armor so thats not an option.

The reason I’m asking is that it is in my opinion time to stop crying over something that’s not going to change, but to think of solutions that might give Anet idea’s.

They have the old flamekissed skin.
Maybe make it available again in the game but through the mystic force:

Ingredients (for the chest piece, but others are simular)
1 Sorcerer’s coat (the current cultural T3 skin)
1 Zojja’s Berserker Insignia (or any other ascended insiginia, but the type will determine the stats on the final item)
50 bloodstone bricks
25 Glob’s of Dark matter

The result will be (with this type of insignia) an ascended version off the old flamekissed coat with beserkers stats.
Off course, the limitation would and should be that it is for only humans to maintain the cultural armor status.

If you continue this, Anet could make all cultural skins flamekissed (well the style, it should be named different off course) and make it upgradable in a simular way.

Well, get my old skin back, but they can keep this new effluent in the gem store for whoever wants it.
Then take the old skin and make a permanent merchant who will sell it for the same gold price as any other t3 armor, and add more cultural armors with (hopefully) different, and maybe slightly less tacky particles to said merchant, only making tweaks to make potentially poor interactions with the armor mesh and frame normalized…and sell it all to any race for the same price as any other pieces of t3 cultural armor: 18g, 20g, 25, and 30g …or totaling 119g iirc

Even if they dont give me back my old armor, give me the gems and the transmute crystals to undo this violation and ill put the gems they give me back toward the gold value of the redo…that works as well. In fact, it would blow my mind to see new stuff (or redone old stuff) come available without having to dunk my bank account into the mystic toilet, have it stolen by mimics (black lion chests), or risk anymore real money on the gem store where they can charge real money and replace it as they please with ZERO legal risk to themselves… this would just blow my mind. Oo

Maybe make it available again in the game but through the mystic force:

Ingredients (for the chest piece, but others are simular)
1 Sorcerer’s coat (the current cultural T3 skin)
1 Zojja’s Berserker Insignia (or any other ascended insiginia, but the type will determine the stats on the final item)
50 bloodstone bricks
25 Glob’s of Dark matter

and to this… ONLY if it comes out of the toilet ascended with the stats of whatever insignia I so chose to throw in with it, otherwise I would stay a second rate citizen paying all that extra above and beyond the cost of the original… Though tbh, with slightly reduced costs, i might go for something like that but less drastic if it returned the actual sorcerer’s coat, ascended stats and without the flames

EDIT: To point out because it’s the type of thing overlooked easily: currently you can only buy the sorcerer’s coat on a human, so that would need to be changed across the board with cultural armor vendors for this to work

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

There is no good solution and that was the point of my last post. This whole thing has been a disaster from start to finish. Did Anet pick what they thought was a fair solution? I think so. However, I was not happy with their efforts in regard to the new skin. I feel like they didn’t really try to come up with a new skin that was nice in an effort to make customers who bought the original version happy. I felt like they had a good opportunity to make those of us that bought the original skin happy and they missed it. Of course there was no way everyone was going to be happy in the end but I feel like they didn’t put much effort into trying to do so. That is just my opinion.

It came down to what Anet deemed the lesser of two evils that seems to have still left a lot of customers unhappy. As I said, at this point it is a done deal and in time the whole topic will just disappear but the loss of customer trust will persist for some time. There isn’t anything else Anet can do about it at this point to make it right.

I think the only thing they can do to actually make this right is to have enough QA to make sure a fiasco like this doesn’t happen again, so have those designers’ designs looked at by someone who KNOWS the game and what everything is, so they don’t make a mistake like this in the future.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think the only thing they can do to actually make this right is to have enough QA to make sure a fiasco like this doesn’t happen again, so have those designers’ designs looked at by someone who KNOWS the game and what everything is, so they don’t make a mistake like this in the future.

the official response where it was announced that they were going to remove it no matter what said very specifically that they “wanted to use the t3 human cultural armor mesh” in other words they knew exactly what they were releasing, the rest about “we didnt think it was visually distinct enough” is a load of BS because nobody involved at any step of the way would have had to go very far to put the two up next to eachother. They over reacted to cry babies, and screwed paying customers…this is the reason for the outrage every bit as much as the skin itself, the time it took to put this monstrosity out, the lack of effort (cause their art people were busy putting hearts on weapon skins)… Screwed out of real money because babies who didn’t spend cried, forced to sit and shiver for 2 whole months, given the soiled diaper of those babies in replacement at the same time they released a load of brand new weapon skins…

They knew exactly what they were doing when they made it, they let that much slip…they just refuse to admit they were more wrong to ignore, alienate and slime paying customers with a terrible redux.

That’s fair. I miss my armor too. I just wish I didn’t get teased with it to have it get taken away. It’s like “come in for this extra special chocolate cake!” So you go in, order the cake, and they bring you an oatmeal raisin cookie.

And I’m left sad and still craving my chocolate.

It’s still some of the best armor in the game (at least for my ele) due to its particle effects, and I wouldn’t be sad if they continued offering a ton of reskins to buy. It’s optional and seems like a smart way to use limited design resources by updating old looks. The more variety, the better tbh. Though if they offered no original pieces while focusing exclusively on reskins, that would sour me. I’m disappointed so I’m going to channel that into something constructive: What I look for in armor.

My main, the character I purchased Flamekissed for, is a Norn Ele. In a MUD I used to play, there was a class called Battlemage, and that’s exactly how I think of her. So I don’t exactly envision her wearing frilly feathery human noble-esque armor that looks super tiny on her, nor do I particularly like any of the light norn fem cultural armor (ugh those bottoms). As a Norn, I don’t shy away from showing her skin but it’d be nice if not everything was quite so cleavage-centric — you’re either baring your breast gap to the world or covered like a nun, there are few aesthetically pleasing/detailed in-between choices. Human fem t3 cultural was pretty much The Dream for this character. Here’s what I tend to look for in armor in general and how/if that plays into the difference between t3 human and feathered:

Part 1

1) Detail that doesn’t cover up the skin while not leaving her largely naked. I have a norn with tattoos. I love those tattoos. The feathered excels with respect to showing skin. It shows back; the thing is held together with basically two bikini strings, which I deeply dislike, and the pants in the back actually shows some butt crack. It shows your entire belly and upper-chest, but there’s almost too much white space. You’re bare from bottom of the breast to top of the lower lady bits. And instead of filling this space with ornaments like the cool body jewelry on human t3 (dat face mask. dat top. Swoon) someone instead opted to accent all this white space at… the throat? With a choker? dnw. I thought I was going to be tepid on the human t3 flamekissed pants for covering too much, but the front-most bit with the vertical lines is eye-catching, the overlapping layers let you glimpse just a bit of skin while making it feel like actual protection, and the detail of the piece is absolutely incredible.

2) Sleeves that don’t cover up gloves. Leggings that don’t cover up shoes. Top pieces that don’t cover up leggings. Headpieces that don’t cover up hair/the face. I paid money (gold, gem or real-world) for each of these pieces and I want to see them, along with the character I spent so much time messing with in creation/makeover kits. Flamekissed Feathered only commits one of these crimes (sleeves cover gloves), but it seems like the gloves were overall skimped on in the detail department and are so tiny anyways, that I guess it doesn’t matter. A pity, since if the gloves were larger I could mix them with a top I like more and still feel like whatever portion of my money was spent on the gloves was well-spent. I was using the feathered head piece before Flamekissed was released so I would like to emphasize my thumbs up here; I’m only sad the center jewel isn’t flaming/smoldering like the belly jewelry on Flamekissed 1.0.

3) Color channels that I can change. Norn light cultural commits the sin of forced color that may not blend well with your chosen pallet. As far as I’m aware, both Flamekissed have done a good job in this area (thank you).

…to be continued…

Part 2

4) Unified Detail. The Ascended armor does a nice job of this, but seems to sacrifice most of the other things I look for in an armor. I don’t want to be covered from head to toe, not even on my male characters. I appreciate that the option exists for light females and embrace this diversity but I feel like more armors need to find a balance. The half-circle cutouts on the feathered upper arms and legs do that fantastically (though I quibble about the frilly sleeve cuffs and the quality of the skirt). My main problem with the ascended is that it looks like detail for detail’s sake without any unifying theme or style. T3 human knocks it out of the park on this point. Also: Why can’t we just have pants? Why must pants on a female light character always have at least a half-skirt accompanying it? I wish I could get the male Ascalonian Catacombs pants on her (if only they were a bit more detailed), or maybe a shorts + high socks version, because I’m pretty tired of wanting to separate the cool leggings from the wonky skirt, which always clips with my weapons and juts out at weird angles. I like the sort of a-line 1/4 skirt that accompanies the fem light exalted armor and actually the feathered skirt isn’t the worst it just looks painfully plain but for the feather design on the back (far and away my favorite part of the feathered Flamekissed). The phoenix armor for females is another home run on this point, though I still think it’s a little frilly for my Norn Ele. The winged armor she was wearing before was a little skimpy from a certain angle but it was so unified in theme that I could put that point aside.

5) Some practicality. I especially love the armor sets with well-placed and non-bulky jars on the belt (winged, t3 sylvari med top), pockets (ascalonian catacombs light male), or bags on the belt (light vigil). It feels like my character is actually well-prepared to go out into the world. It gives ornamentation a focus beyond being purely for the cool factor. Again I point to the winged, which has beautiful detail on the biceps, the back, the “white space” areas of the belly+left leg and the tops of the gloves+boots, in addition to the bottles on the belt.

…I say all this in the fear that we’ll see a string of reskinned armors, where particle effects are slapped on in lieu of addressing the reasons they were less popular to begin with.

Thank you for your patience in dealing with this weird situation, ANet. I hope we can all avoid it in the future

@ kimeekat

If you have a female human character, take the t3 light legs/shoulders, and winged boots/gloves/chest and either the blindfold, feathered head thing (probably the only piece of that set I have no issue with by art or mesh interaction functions), or the human t3 head piece. I spent the last two months knowing for fact that this thing would turn out like it has, but that armor mix is a thing of beauty on human, and looked as though it could have worked on norns too in spite of all the meshing issues… The way other posts and the original official response read, the highest hope I had was the the set would turn out looking something like the one here… just on a norn

Inimicus.7162:

@ kimeekat

If you have a female human character, take the t3 light legs/shoulders, and winged boots/gloves/chest and either the blindfold, feathered head thing (probably the only piece of that set I have no issue with by art or mesh interaction functions), or the human t3 head piece. I spent the last two months knowing for fact that this thing would turn out like it has, but that armor mix is a thing of beauty on human, and looked as though it could have worked on norns too in spite of all the meshing issues… The way other posts and the original official response read, the highest hope I had was the the set would turn out looking something like the one here… just on a norn

And to compare to previous posts: It’s a human, and thus a facial expression that reeks of “Don’t talk to me without my express permission” is basically impossible. But: the armor is both covering and revealing at the same time, with any number of dye combos it looks perfectly “fantasy noble/royal gladiatrix-warrior” or “battle mage” type, even though the set does include it, you have to sit there and try rather hard to see the plumber’s crack through the ornamentation on the leggings. (Being honest, but i doubt it could be covered any other way without compromising something else). The entire set is very heavily ornamented in fact, as those leggings on the “winged” armor are by far the least ornamented item on the entire set (because the hood is quite small, so much more empty space on the leggings), thus replaced with the heavily ornamented human t3. Before getting flamekissed, a human ele i had (because light armor options on norns were and are again just that heart breaking) wearing similar but with CoF shoulders instead (these things turn into parachutes on norn females) and it was quite the look for an elementalist.

EDIT The eyes on that necro are from the started headgear “Wraith Mask” and looks way better on norns in my opinion

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

The ship on “fair” sailed when they decided to completely ignore one segment of the population in their decision to take the armor away from people who bought it to appease another group of people. And it sank when they continued to ignore the people they took the armor away from during the development of the “really nice” armor with “new art” (bolding theirs) that they said they were going to replace it with.

But, to ease some of the resentment at having done so they could:

1) Acknowledge that the people who are disgruntled have a reason to be so.
2) Apologize.
3) Ensure that they compensate those that were affected for collateral losses that the change caused whether they keep the armor or not.
4) Engage in a dialogue regarding attributes of the replacement armor such as:
- the effectless gem in the center of the headpiece
- the shoulder piece clipping/placement issue reported by norn players (which may be an issue for sylvari as well)
- the pink effect on the knees of the boots that doesn’t seem to match the other effects on the armor and looks like the effects on the Bloody Prince Staff, Modnir Quarterstaff and Eye of Rodgort
- the bottom fringe of the chest piece that, on female humans and sylvari at least, doesn’t appear to have been re-skinned and dyes differently than the rest of the piece, looking especially brown with dark red dyes.
- They don’t need to jump on these like a set of commands, but at least talk to us about these kinds of things and give the armor another QA pass or two to make the best of it.

I’m keeping it because there isn’t a better replacement for it for a fire themed sylvari elementalist and probably won’t ever be. But it is a clear downgrade over what it was. So it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they at least try to lessen that downgrade as much as possible. They make changes to armor and other items to address issues and improve them all the time.

mercury ranique.2170:

And do not say, to keep the old skin. This was griefing many players who bought t3 cultural armor so thats not an option.

The reason I’m asking is that it is in my opinion time to stop crying over something that’s not going to change, but to think of solutions that might give Anet idea’s.

There is no reason to dictate what is or isn’t an option. If people think keeping the old one is the fair solution, they have a right to express that. And there is no reason to characterize their legitimate complaints as “crying.” It is an attack and doesn’t encourage a reasonable response. Whether it changes or not, people affected should express clearly how they feel about it.

Thelgar.7214:

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

The ship on “fair” sailed when they decided to completely ignore one segment of the population in their decision to take the armor away from people who bought it to appease another group of people. And it sank when they continued to ignore the people they took the armor away from during the development of the “really nice” armor with “new art” (bolding theirs) that they said they were going to replace it with.

But, to ease some of the resentment at having done so they could:

1) Acknowledge that the people who are disgruntled have a reason to be so.
2) Apologize.
3) Ensure that they compensate those that were affected for collateral losses that the change caused whether they keep the armor or not.
4) Engage in a dialogue regarding attributes of the replacement armor such as:
- the effectless gem in the center of the headpiece
- the shoulder piece clipping/placement issue reported by norn players (which may be an issue for sylvari as well)
- the pink effect on the knees of the boots that doesn’t seem to match the other effects on the armor and looks like the effects on the Bloody Prince Staff, Modnir Quarterstaff and Eye of Rodgort
- the bottom fringe of the chest piece that, on female humans and sylvari at least, doesn’t appear to have been re-skinned and dyes differently than the rest of the piece, looking especially brown with dark red dyes.
- They don’t need to jump on these like a set of commands, but at least talk to us about these kinds of things and give the armor another QA pass or two to make the best of it.

I’m keeping it because there isn’t a better replacement for it for a fire themed sylvari elementalist and probably won’t ever be. But it is a clear downgrade over what it was. So it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they at least try to lessen that downgrade as much as possible. They make changes to armor and other items to address issues and improve them all the time.

mercury ranique.2170:

And do not say, to keep the old skin. This was griefing many players who bought t3 cultural armor so thats not an option.

The reason I’m asking is that it is in my opinion time to stop crying over something that’s not going to change, but to think of solutions that might give Anet idea’s.

There is no reason to dictate what is or isn’t an option. If people think keeping the old one is the fair solution, they have a right to express that. And there is no reason to characterize their legitimate complaints as “crying.” It is an attack and doesn’t encourage a reasonable response. Whether it changes or not, people affected should express clearly how they feel about it.

Technically the ship on “fair” sailed when only the light armor was a t3 skin redux, I think this was a part of mistake number one, which was the fact it was released at all originally.
As for “crying” yes, it isn’t a good word for sparking fair debate, but I point out that particular bit of “fair” left port and sank somewhere when real money (micro transaction based gem store… it’s how i purchased it) got involved and promises of a reskin turned out something so blatantly against what they themselves said was the original intent of the design… I don’t have a better way to describe what I honestly think of people who didn’t pay real money, but still cost me mine because thanks to them, I am not getting what i paid for, and there is no substitute that even begins to approach the quality of what was taken from me as a result of their own rage filled forum posts, and the trolling so many of them still engage in whenever this topic arises.

I’ll ask again, and explain more bout my motives for asking.
’Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?
And do not say, to keep the old skin. ’

I see so many people being digged in for this ‘war’. The simple fact is that Anet decided to do this months ago. They didn’t change their position ever since then and it sure doesn’t look like they are going to change it now.

So wether you like it or not. You won’t get the old skin back (atleast not cause you paid with gems). I don’t mind. I personally find the T3 armor ugly. I found the old flamekissed skin ugly. So I don’t care at all. I’m an outsider in this discussion. The reason I am reacting is that I see so many people wasting energy on something that is clearly not going to change.

That is why I’m asking you to use that energy in a positive way. Instead of digging deeper in, how do you think this could be solved in a way that would be (somewhat) sattisfying for you. Use this energy to find a solution instead of digging deeper into the bunkers, while nothing is going to change in the end. In my previous post I think I gave a good start of what I think would be a solution

mercury ranique.2170:

I’ll ask again, and explain more bout my motives for asking.
’Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?
And do not say, to keep the old skin. ’

I see so many people being digged in for this ‘war’. The simple fact is that Anet decided to do this months ago. They didn’t change their position ever since then and it sure doesn’t look like they are going to change it now.

So wether you like it or not. You won’t get the old skin back (atleast not cause you paid with gems). I don’t mind. I personally find the T3 armor ugly. I found the old flamekissed skin ugly. So I don’t care at all. I’m an outsider in this discussion. The reason I am reacting is that I see so many people wasting energy on something that is clearly not going to change.

That is why I’m asking you to use that energy in a positive way. Instead of digging deeper in, how do you think this could be solved in a way that would be (somewhat) sattisfying for you. Use this energy to find a solution instead of digging deeper into the bunkers, while nothing is going to change in the end. In my previous post I think I gave a good start of what I think would be a solution

Again, If i can’t have it back outright, it needs to be stated quite clearly and quickly that a new, permanent merchant will be put in place where the old skin can be bought at the same price in game gold as any other t3 armor. We all see it for what it is, I simply want it announced fast because when/if my refunds come in I would be using them to pay down some of those costs.

But a merchant, in LA, or even standing next to the ones in DR, selling the human t3 flamekissed variant to any race at the normal 119g/set cost of all other t3 would be perfectly acceptable, and would put this to bed well enough for me.

And if not that, the two pieces that are absolutely irreplaceable from that set are the leggings and the shoulders, which can be mixed with some other armor sets (winged is my personal favorite for the mixing, though it would need tweaks for meshing issues), so even if not a carbon copy, it can’t be that hard to change just a few things off the existing legs/shoulders without ruining the overall effect of the design.. (as was their officially stated, original “intentions” when flamekissing the human t3 light).

But my definite preference on the permanent merchant idea with an expandable inventory of other reskinned (or not) cultural, crafted and dropped skins and hopefully some new ones for coin.

mercury ranique.2170:

In my previous post I think I gave a good start of what I think would be a solution

There is no solution at this point it is what it is. Anet has presented and delivered what they feel the solution is. I’ve stated that twice now. People are allowed to be unhappy with they way it turned out and they are allowed to express that even when there is no way to fix it. They can’t make the old skin available again in any fashion without making a bunch of more people unhappy. That skin should be in the same place a lot of my posts end up ‘trashcan’ Anet should just cut their losses with the way it stands now.

mercury ranique.2170:

I’ll ask again, and explain more bout my motives for asking.
’Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?
And do not say, to keep the old skin. ’

I see so many people being digged in for this ‘war’. The simple fact is that Anet decided to do this months ago. They didn’t change their position ever since then and it sure doesn’t look like they are going to change it now.

So wether you like it or not. You won’t get the old skin back (atleast not cause you paid with gems). I don’t mind. I personally find the T3 armor ugly. I found the old flamekissed skin ugly. So I don’t care at all. I’m an outsider in this discussion. The reason I am reacting is that I see so many people wasting energy on something that is clearly not going to change.

That is why I’m asking you to use that energy in a positive way. Instead of digging deeper in, how do you think this could be solved in a way that would be (somewhat) sattisfying for you. Use this energy to find a solution instead of digging deeper into the bunkers, while nothing is going to change in the end. In my previous post I think I gave a good start of what I think would be a solution

Your solution rubs salt in the wounds of some of the people the original flamekissed armor was taken away from by making it available to the very people who caused it to be taken from them (and who have given some the impression they are gloating about it). It would stir up too many negative emotions.

The people who had characters of non-human races didn’t want the original flamekissed armor because it was cultural armor. They wanted it because of how it looked on their character. A lot of that has to do with skin coverage for the sylvari and norn allowing it to show and synergize with their tattoos and glows as well as hair and hairstyles. Just slapping flame effects on other races T3 armors isn’t going to result in an armor that replaces what those players lost.

That is why it was so important for ArenaNet to go all in on trying to make the replacement armor be a suitable replacement in terms of functionality and quality. And that is why it is important that if they aren’t bringing back the original armor, and they aren’t going to do a complete redesign, they should take another look at the the new flamekissed armor to make sure it is the best it can be.

mercury ranique.2170:

I see so many people being digged in for this ‘war’. The simple fact is that Anet decided to do this months ago. They didn’t change their position ever since then and it sure doesn’t look like they are going to change it now.

Dug in for this ‘war’ because real money was involved, those who paid got robbed. That’s all it is, the skin has no other possible, full replacement currently existing in the game, so offering back our gems is giving us money back that there is no reason to believe will ever buy us something to actually replace what was taken. We payed real money initially on trust, violated… we paid for something that was taken. We hung around and quieted down mostly because some of us thought there was a possibility that their art department was going to release something exactly like what they, themselves said was the original intent, their people told us they thought we might like it. It was all lies, and yes…something true can be turned false by outside influences. This is why this is on fire once again, this time anet has nobody to really answer to, as they are legally padded from all recourse, the people who caused anet’s reaction that turned a trusted purchase into a bait and switch (they still have our money and will not return it in spite of clearly not making good on any promise regarding this stuff), and now they are only moderating the forums to shuffle stuff around and attempt to clean up some of the outrage at those who have been lied to, and the trolling from those who got us robbed in the first place. Only further worsened that they released this new thing with a boatload of other new skins, though circumstantial…it highly suggests that the redo for customers who’s money they already had was not even very important to them. A war? Well, they don’t seem too bothered with letting it carry on and I assume they are probably going to not say anything until it goes away… which is wrong, the people who paid money are left out in the cold, we are not as important to them as those who only had some artistic claim that human t3 was exclusive (lies, asuran npcs wear it too) and that getting it by gems was unfair…fine, at that time i would have needed about 1000 gems for a t3 culture set from any race…that’s legit and i have no reason for game gold for my original skin back being put back on the table. But most of us just want some acknowledgment that we were screwed harder than those who wanted their not-so-special armor kept in some sacred lock-box, and some like me want a more proper compensation since the skin i was robbed of is absolutely peerless in form, whether you like the looks or not.

I challenge anyone to find something that looks like human t3 or flamekissed anywhere else in the game that I can get it, show me a screenshot or a wiki page. You may not like the look yourself, but I think you will not find one that a player can wear. And aside from being screwed and left to shiver for 2 months, If you find the armor set or mix that carries the same style aesthetics, in light armor, that I can buy, that does not include human t3 (this is for norns in my case), screenie it, tell me where and what and I’ll leave this thing to die because the aesthetics and feel of the overall look is all I really wanted in the first place.

They’re dug in for war because there are TWO groups of people in which there is only ONE satisfactory solution in their minds, and the two solutions are mutually exclusive.

Looks pretty good on females, but looks horrendous on males…I don’t understand the logic in creating an armor skin like that, but I’m just glad I didn’t buy the original now.

I’m surprised, I would have thought if anything that Arena Net would have made the new skin way better than the t3 cultural skin, just to really shut up the QQers.

Jeff.4680:

I’m surprised, I would have thought if anything that Arena Net would have made the new skin way better than the t3 cultural skin, just to really shut up the QQers.

In that case all people that bought or wanted flamekissed medium or heavy would have flamed that its not fair and they want also better stuff or the light also needs to be as ugly as medium / heavy

Beldin.5498:

Jeff.4680:

I’m surprised, I would have thought if anything that Arena Net would have made the new skin way better than the t3 cultural skin, just to really shut up the QQers.

In that case all people that bought or wanted flamekissed medium or heavy would have flamed that its not fair and they want also better stuff or the light also needs to be as ugly as medium / heavy

Or the heavy/medium also need to be redone

Close to 24 hours in between CS communications in 2 days, just how many people got screwed by this one? Oo

Inimicus.7162:

Close to 24 hours in between CS communications in 2 days, just how many people got screwed by this one? Oo

The window for CS is 72 hours (3 days). If you don’t have a resolution by then there is sticky in the account forum where you can post your ticket number for follow-up. Let it go here. It is what it is and is set in stone. We just have to wait for our refunds and leave it at that.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I would argue that the merchant only did what it’s customer’s wanted in the first place. The removal of the flamekissed armor. They did not cause the issue, we did. They were simply trying to keep us happy. This is a prime example of being kitten ed if they do, kitten ed if they don’t.

No player produced nor introduced the armor skin in question. Anet chose to remove something for which people had paid. No player had the power to remove the armor skin, nor to replace it with another. Anet introduced the armor, charged people for it, and then removed it. They should be the ones to bear any burden involved in addressing player concerns regarding the matter.

You say, " we," caused the problem, but I think you will be hard pressed to find a single person who willingly paid for the first iteration of the armor skin who was among those arguing for its removal.

Ultimately mistakes happen. What seemed like a good idea without the benefit of hindsight turns out poorly. I don’t find fault witha company for making a mistake, it happens to everyone, so long as they make up for the mistake.

My point was that your comment…

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You realize it would probably cost them more in transaction fees to try to refund 10$ to everyone that demanded cash? Additionally, they would need time to verify that the person actually did purchase the gems with cash, and not gold?

…about the expense or effort that would be required of Anet to make the situation right for those who have paid for something that is not being delivered is irrelevant to the customer. Anet’s mistake, Anet’s burden to correct.

Hate it… I’ll be getting my gems refunded. Next time, I expect to keep something I buy with MY money. Don’t care how many cry about it. It’s no more or less fair to me to lose something I paid for simply because of someone else whining. Those few who were in the time window and got the original design should have been allowed to keep it. Feathered sucks…

A car manufacturer can’t repo your car and leave a newer model in your driveway claiming, “The previous design was in error. Here, have this shiny new one!” lol! Same applies here. I liked it when I bought it the first time.

Ashen.2907:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I would argue that the merchant only did what it’s customer’s wanted in the first place. The removal of the flamekissed armor. They did not cause the issue, we did. They were simply trying to keep us happy. This is a prime example of being kitten ed if they do, kitten ed if they don’t.

No player produced nor introduced the armor skin in question. Anet chose to remove something for which people had paid. No player had the power to remove the armor skin, nor to replace it with another. Anet introduced the armor, charged people for it, and then removed it. They should be the ones to bear any burden involved in addressing player concerns regarding the matter.

You say, " we," caused the problem, but I think you will be hard pressed to find a single person who willingly paid for the first iteration of the armor skin who was among those arguing for its removal.

Ultimately mistakes happen. What seemed like a good idea without the benefit of hindsight turns out poorly. I don’t find fault witha company for making a mistake, it happens to everyone, so long as they make up for the mistake.

My point was that your comment…

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You realize it would probably cost them more in transaction fees to try to refund 10$ to everyone that demanded cash? Additionally, they would need time to verify that the person actually did purchase the gems with cash, and not gold?

…about the expense or effort that would be required of Anet to make the situation right for those who have paid for something that is not being delivered is irrelevant to the customer. Anet’s mistake, Anet’s burden to correct.

Hence why they’re fortunate most of us would be appeased simply by getting our gems back, lol.

KStudios.2850:

A car manufacturer can’t repo your car and leave a newer model in your driveway claiming, “The previous design was in error. Here, have this shiny new one!” lol! Same applies here. I liked it when I bought it the first time.

The funniest thing about this analogy is it totally overlooks the trifling detail that you are on A LEASE. They threw some paint on somebody else’s limited edition and started shipping them before they realized “oh crap, we can’t put those into our motor-pool, they’re already reserved for a limited group” and then they pulled all the vehicles that slipped out during a 24 hour window of Oops, and have been trying to negotiate satisfactory terms with the Leaseholders that were shipped the vehicles in error. Sometimes successfully. Often less so.

Yeah. It was a nice car. That’s why it usual costs 119 gold even without the flashy paint job. But you don’t fix a mistake by leaving the evidence scattered around forever when you have the means to clean up after yourself.

Nike.2631:

Yeah. It was a nice car. That’s why it usual costs 119 gold even without the flashy paint job. But you don’t fix a mistake by leaving the evidence scattered around forever when you have the means to clean up after yourself.

The problem being I got it for my norn… Yeeeeeah… Couldn’t care less about T3 on a human. Almost every account with a human spellcaster has it. Now, a norn… Not so much.

And no, you’re so right. You fix a mistake by taking product away from the person that legally bought it without their consent or say in the matter… Obvious sarcasm is obvious? And all because a few people whined. Why… if they paid half that close attention to the ranger forums… I’m gonna stop there.

Lastly, The entire basis for your vehicle argument hinges on the fact that they managed to pull the cars before any were purchased. The COULD NOT legally take a car from someone who had already bought and owned it. Regardless of color. This was not the case in Anet’s little debacle here.

Obvious failure to read the terms of the lease is obvious . Recalls are mandatory.

You were briefly the beneficiary of a mistake. They’ll try to make it up to you in every way except perpetuating the mistake.

Nike.2631:

Obvious failure to read the terms of the lease is obvious . Recalls are mandatory.

You were briefly the beneficiary of a mistake. They’ll try to make it up to you in every way except perpetuating the mistake.

The damage is done, the elementalist character in question is now a mule since the look desired is unobtainable… I had something taken from me that I bought legally without consult nor consent. It’s a done deal from my standpoint. Getting my gems back at this point is the very least they can do. I would say the armor should be complimentary at this point as well, but I don’t want it anymore anyway.

The thing is many of the people that purchased the Flamekissed armor would have been very happy if they would have at least picked an armor that is semi decent on human males. you look at the females and it does look pretty decent. The male version is horrible. Giving Gems back really isn’t fair either Real Cash was used to purchase those gems in many cases. Anet got their cash for some good looking armor. So give us armor in return that has a similar level of appeal. Giving gems back isnt really a “refund” because Anet got the money. The gems will either sit there or get burned up at one point or another. Getting our real cash isn’t going to be an option for many of us. So since Anet took real cash for something was actually desireable but turned around and gave us ugly unwanted armor they should figure out what to give us to make it up

I didn’t buy the set before, because I’ve never been a fan of Human Light Tier 3, outside of the foot and head slots. However, I did like the new set and ended up buying it. I wish I could have the head slot in flaming, but I can live! Still trying to get the dyes matched right, as just the right reddish-orange is eluding me atm.

The original light Flamekissed was a repaint of an existing set and so is this one. Only difference was the original was based on something that was suppose to be race unique and cost a far chunk of gold to acquire and the new one isn’t.

If you can’t accept that, or that ANet made their attentions clear when the armor was pulled what was going to happen, that the skins will be swapped and if you aren’t satisfied with the new one then you can get a gem refund, then there’s nothing anyone can do. You knew it was coming for months. You knew ANet wasn’t going to reverse their ruling.

Those are the cards you’ve been dealt, deal with it.

Behellagh.1468:

You knew ANet wasn’t going to reverse their ruling.

Actually ANet has made it very clear that they are willing to change their stance on decisions made regarding the direction of specific aspects of the game and of the game as a whole if people complain enough.

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

You knew ANet wasn’t going to reverse their ruling.

Actually ANet has made it very clear that they are willing to change their stance on decisions made regarding the direction of specific aspects of the game and of the game as a whole if people complain enough.

Really. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin/first#post3275229

Hate it. But I got nothing to transmute back to other armor…. =/

Behellagh.1468:

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

You knew ANet wasn’t going to reverse their ruling.

Actually ANet has made it very clear that they are willing to change their stance on decisions made regarding the direction of specific aspects of the game and of the game as a whole if people complain enough.

Really. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin/first#post3275229

Yes, that post is quite straightforward, which does not at all conflict with my previous post.

It was a stupid idea to sell a re-skinned TIER 3 CULTURAL armor. But Anet should’ve given a full refund to those who already bought it then let them decide for themselves whether it’s worth the purchase.

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

You knew ANet wasn’t going to reverse their ruling.

Actually ANet has made it very clear that they are willing to change their stance on decisions made regarding the direction of specific aspects of the game and of the game as a whole if people complain enough.

Really. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin/first#post3275229

Yes, that post is quite straightforward, which does not at all conflict with my previous post.

Players complained about the similarity to Human T3 light and they changed it. They did exactly what you said. That said once they set this new policy in motion there was no chance they would reverse it again. They made the people who were upset about the it being cloned from Human T3, they pulled the set within 24 or 48 hours, they established a policy of reimbursement for the few who bought it if they didn’t like the replacement. End of story.

As I said in one of the numerous duplicate threads on this subject, what they should have done was pull the set from players immediately and reimbursed them then. This why they wouldn’t have become attached to them in the two months it took for the net set to be ready. It’s like trying to take away a puppy from kids after two months.

Behellagh.1468:

Players complained about the similarity to Human T3 light and they changed it. They did exactly what you said.

Exactly so.

This is not the first time that they have demonstrated that if enough people complain about something it will be changed regardless of the importance of the something.

Once that perception is created…

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

Keep the old skin…and put it on sale again
remove T3 from vendor
Design a NEW T3
make vendor able to swap the old T3 with the new maybe.

at that point the “exclusive armor” would be the T3 and not the flamekissed…..despite i find the fact of exclusivity a non issue…since it s driven only by envy with NO point at all.

Anet acting according to that reason is something totally wrong….
The reason is exactly what ashen is saying but worse….since they did something it should never happen …

Removing legit equipment from players in order to appeal people with 0 rights and no point.

Removing from the shop would have been enough…removing from people who bought it is unforgivable….they should ve found ANY other solution.

Maybe Arena Net learns not to make half kitten cheaply reskined armor sets now.