Guild Wars 2

NCSoft says tons of stuff to their investors, very little of which ever reflects what actually happens in GW2.

However, there are lots of ways that ANet could focus on “cost efficiency” and benefit the quality of the game:

• Moving some full-time-equivalent positions into quality & change management, so there are fewer emergency fixes, which allows more time spent on new features or content.
• Re-arranging teams to fit leadership’s current vision of the game’s progression, i.e. if the main focus is supposed to be HoT, fractals, PvP leagues, and WvW balance & rewards, then there would be teams for each of those, rather than a skills team, a rewards team, etc.
• Improving the efficiency of internal cost centers, including internal IT, HR, etc. Sometimes, that actually means spending more in the short run, e.g. hiring more recruiters to reduce the amount of time key positions remain vacant.

tl;dr What NCSoft says hasn’t mattered much in the past; it’s not clear that means anything now. And, even if it did, “cost-efficiency” can be a good thing.

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze, these are the game boards so I’m using this medium constructively… Your arguments are null and void. Thanks. I’m not going to negotiate ncsoft’s role anymore or use of these forums unnecessarily. There are bigger messages to discuss.

You yet have to lay out how their statement, which you based your OP on, is related to development of the game and not marketing costs.

Cost effective marketing has nothing to do with the flaws you see in this game.

The conference call didn’t say that they were looking to do something like reinvest into their games to increase long term revenue and earnings now did they? Right?

Instead they are building a new mobile studio, has 60 employees out of the planned 100 and leveraging (gambling with) a new ip instead of propping up their current bread winners…

Gw2 is an amazing game in ways and just added 2 million new users since play for free and has a 3.1 million monthly concurrency rate now… So maybe time to reinvest and boost momentum and staying power and growing power for gw2 into 2016…

It’s simple to separate “cost efficiency” and “reinvest”… It’s pretty self explanatory… The rest is just PR money talk mumbo jumbo for people who look at their accounting statements wondering what happened… It’s different for the boots on the ground…

Then i dont know why you claim cost efficiency is the root of all evil, if its the lack of reinvestment.

If you want reinvestment, say so. Just because it wasnt mentioned in a transcript from a conference call made by an mmo fansite, doesnt mean they dont do it.

You can claim its PR mumbo jumbo but then it makes no sense to use it to back up your OP.

Find a statement from NCSoft that says they arent reinvesting into GW2 and we can continue the discussion.

I’ve brought up both topics because they are interrelated to make my case. I’m not sure you read things fully… Those are two differ topics and both of which I’ve addressed separately…

This topic has progressed so you are twisting thoughts just to argue…

Did you not read the op? Or were you too busy telling me to buy gems if I don’t like the funding from the owners?

You jumped in mid conversation with a silly comment on an important topic so obviously you are not serious with this discussion in the first place.

You run in circular arguments just to argue and that doesn’t move the topic forward…

Seriously, good luck…

So its fine, if you throw in 2 different topics into the conversation and its not fine if i question their correlation?

If you took the time to read the op… It’s pretty clear…

I read your OP several times even after the edit and its all over the place.

What it boils down to is that you want NCSoft to invest money in the game because you dont like certain aspects of the game and you claim their marketing strategy is why we dont have classes balanced like you want them to be, only 1 wvw map, only 1 raid and so on.

You just want them to sponsor more ressources and tell Anet to make a better game and give no specific suggestions on how this would generate more ROI for them, except better gem store sales through better items and GW2 being a better product.

You completely misinterpreted what was said in the conference call because it has absolutely nothing to do with game development.

I like how you used the word “you”… More players than I share this sentiment…

Yup more investment would be great…

You should maybe look at the bigger picture here Wanze.

Thanks for reading it finally instead of telling me to “buy more gems”…

Swagger.1459:

I like how you used the word “you”… More players than I share this sentiment…

Yup more investment would be great…

You should maybe look at the bigger picture here Wanze.

Thanks for reading it finally instead of telling me to “buy more gems”…

You better buy some more gems because if you think that NCSoft will butter some more money into GW2, you might have to wait for GW3 for that to happen.

cost effective can also means removing development wastage which in this case, anet has already made quite a number of development wastage by remaking maps etc.

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze, these are the game boards so I’m using this medium constructively… Your arguments are null and void. Thanks. I’m not going to negotiate ncsoft’s role anymore or use of these forums unnecessarily. There are bigger messages to discuss.

You yet have to lay out how their statement, which you based your OP on, is related to development of the game and not marketing costs.

Cost effective marketing has nothing to do with the flaws you see in this game.

The conference call didn’t say that they were looking to do something like reinvest into their games to increase long term revenue and earnings now did they? Right?

Instead they are building a new mobile studio, has 60 employees out of the planned 100 and leveraging (gambling with) a new ip instead of propping up their current bread winners…

Gw2 is an amazing game in ways and just added 2 million new users since play for free and has a 3.1 million monthly concurrency rate now… So maybe time to reinvest and boost momentum and staying power and growing power for gw2 into 2016…

It’s simple to separate “cost efficiency” and “reinvest”… It’s pretty self explanatory… The rest is just PR money talk mumbo jumbo for people who look at their accounting statements wondering what happened… It’s different for the boots on the ground…

Anet have rumored 250+ employees. How many mmorpg have that many rumored employee?

NCSoft are always reinvesting in their game. How do you think they pay all the expense?

Hypothetically assume a game from NCSoft made 10 million$ a year, and 5 million$ expense. Those 5 million dollar is used to “reinvest” already.

That’s where the expense come from. Stop being so delusional. You sound like all those youtube comment about GW2 profit being used to pay for Aion or Lineage expansion, when those games were making even more money.

It was asked before but it got buried in the crapload of posts, how do patch notes magically back up your argument?
You’re making some pretty specific claims there, your proof is patch notes (linking all the patch notes is not proof), a conference call (link?) and some other financial info (link?), none of it adds up the way you’re claiming.
There’s this little tiny inconvenient thing called burden of proof.
If you claim patch notes back your argument, you’re supposed to explain how instead of providing a link and saying “figgure it out”.
If you claim a conference call backs you up you should provide a link to the call itself or a transcription + some evidence that suggests that’s a call between relevant people for this discussion.
If you claim some other documents out there back you up you’re supposed to provide these documents.
Otherwise anyone can say patch notes don’t back you up and provide a link to’em with a “figure it out” punch line. We can also claim we’ve calls that discredit you and some other financial info that blows whatever you say out of the water.

Swagger.1459:

I like how you used the word “you”… More players than I share this sentiment…

Yup more investment would be great…

You should maybe look at the bigger picture here Wanze.

Thanks for reading it finally instead of telling me to “buy more gems”…

And more than one player share my arguments. Neither one of us is alone. But if the majority is right, that means at one time the world was flat.

Having a majority doesn’t make you correct…and you can’t even prove you have that.

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Yeah, sure, that’s called spin doctoring to explain poor numbers and not look bad for poor reinvestments back into their current games…

Sure, lets blame marketing when gamers don’t care about marketing, they care about a good game. WIIFM my friend… Look it up in sales strategy… That’s what players/customers/consumers/end users care about the most…

Those explainations are for money people not game people… But you don’t get that concept…

Cost efficiency and patch notes are all we need to see to know… Sorry.

But why do you use cost efficiency to explain the development flaws if it is clearly a money people explaination, as you have stated?

NCSoft stopped investing into GW2 development long ago, all they do, is take Anets earnings and use a part of those profits for marketing their product.

Where is the correlation between marketing budgets and game development flaws?

Anet is wholly owned by ncsoft…

So maybe it’s time to reinvest and make them better bread winners…

NCSoft does reinvest in GW2. Continually, to the tune of millions of dollars per year.

Ashen.2907:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Yeah, sure, that’s called spin doctoring to explain poor numbers and not look bad for poor reinvestments back into their current games…

Sure, lets blame marketing when gamers don’t care about marketing, they care about a good game. WIIFM my friend… Look it up in sales strategy… That’s what players/customers/consumers/end users care about the most…

Those explainations are for money people not game people… But you don’t get that concept…

Cost efficiency and patch notes are all we need to see to know… Sorry.

But why do you use cost efficiency to explain the development flaws if it is clearly a money people explaination, as you have stated?

NCSoft stopped investing into GW2 development long ago, all they do, is take Anets earnings and use a part of those profits for marketing their product.

Where is the correlation between marketing budgets and game development flaws?

Anet is wholly owned by ncsoft…

So maybe it’s time to reinvest and make them better bread winners…

NCSoft does reinvest in GW2. Continually, to the tune of millions of dollars per year.

Also Anet increased their employee numbers over the year. That is how they reinvest in the game.

So I’m not sure how else people want NCSoft to reinvest in GW2. Other than some of their employees complaining about salary or the office getting crowded.

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

Swagger.1459:

Sure vayne, “focused on cost efficiency” from a business conference call to investors and I highlighted what pieces of bigger things are in the game and promised to come and missing and neglected…

You have zero meangiful argument here. I’m not doing these straw man arguments from you, sorry.

Yeah, I don’t need anymore facts than those I presented.

Thanks

Edit- now if you can show me proof of any official legendary armor pics from Anet… If you can show me where the robust and meangiful winter event is… If you can show me there are more than a handful of spvp meta builds after 3 full years… If you can show me that ncsoft is really supporting growth of Anet on a large scale instead of saying “cost efficiency” then mentioning gw2 by name in the same sentence… Then we can have a discussion…

Edit 2- then asking for proof for the proof provided by both nc and Anet shows you have zero interest in talking about this topic. I’m given X amount of facts and thats what I work with… Want to disprove me, come up with your own factual statements from business calls and your own factual proof and point somewhere in current patch notes where we have these missing things… So far it’s a lot of tables of stuff at Anet, and that business call of “cost efficiency” explains a whole lot…

Hence I called it a religious belief, you’re basically stating that we would need to come with facts or proof we both don’t have access to and merely trust you have the right conclusion drawn.
I was basically saying you don’t have the full picture, while those the effects you see could partially come from their business plan it’s unlikely the reason for the lack of content. In fact, Colin himself stated that heart of thorns was heavy on systems, you know, the coding “motor” of the game part that you don’t see, and less heavy on actual playable content. (Though Im paraphrasing)

I could imagine that if the rumours are true that they are going to fully change WVW, that would take a lot of effort. (While you’re just saying it’s taking long because LESS money) Thus only one map for now, and more wvw stuff whenever that’s ready.

I would bring up Platos Cave, but I wonder if you would get the reference. You see a few shades on a wall and claim to know the reality of things at ArenaNet. I just say theyre shades, and you don’t see the (complete) reality of things at ArenaNet.

laokoko.7403:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze, these are the game boards so I’m using this medium constructively… Your arguments are null and void. Thanks. I’m not going to negotiate ncsoft’s role anymore or use of these forums unnecessarily. There are bigger messages to discuss.

You yet have to lay out how their statement, which you based your OP on, is related to development of the game and not marketing costs.

Cost effective marketing has nothing to do with the flaws you see in this game.

The conference call didn’t say that they were looking to do something like reinvest into their games to increase long term revenue and earnings now did they? Right?

Instead they are building a new mobile studio, has 60 employees out of the planned 100 and leveraging (gambling with) a new ip instead of propping up their current bread winners…

Gw2 is an amazing game in ways and just added 2 million new users since play for free and has a 3.1 million monthly concurrency rate now… So maybe time to reinvest and boost momentum and staying power and growing power for gw2 into 2016…

It’s simple to separate “cost efficiency” and “reinvest”… It’s pretty self explanatory… The rest is just PR money talk mumbo jumbo for people who look at their accounting statements wondering what happened… It’s different for the boots on the ground…

Anet have rumored 250+ employees. How many mmorpg have that many rumored employee?

NCSoft are always reinvesting in their game. How do you think they pay all the expense?

Hypothetically assume a game from NCSoft made 10 million$ a year, and 5 million$ expense. Those 5 million dollar is used to “reinvest” already.

That’s where the expense come from. Stop being so delusional. You sound like all those youtube comment about GW2 profit being used to pay for Aion or Lineage expansion, when those games were making even more money.

The track record and current state of the game is indication that obviously something is wrong.

Yeah, this game could use a support boost from the decision makers.

Never met a group of people playing a game that didn’t want their game to grow… Strange…

And there you go again with adhoc conclusions.

SkyShroud.2865:

cost effective can also means removing development wastage which in this case, anet has already made quite a number of development wastage by remaking maps etc.

I agree that Anet is not infallible in this equation, that’s why all parties are addressed…

Obviously this game needs work to get on a better track, so it takes a team effort to do this…

We shall see what 2016 patch notes look like…

Gw2 sales dropping? They lie! Everything is perfect here, community is great, game is great, expansion is great, everything is great and there are endless rivers of honey and milk in game too.

/turned off sarcasm

As I said before, this expansion is not worth 45€ atm (feel bad for those that spent 100€). They hyped us with so much content and everything and we got gem shop expansion with nerfed core game rewards. Esports failed, balance failed, wvw borders are dead except EB. Only few armors that are obtainable through game. PVP is crap now, should I continue?…

Graphics of the expansion is one thing that is positive to me, praise to the graphic dev team. And some elite specs….

Very unhappy customer.

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

ncsoft has little to do with development of gw2 they simply publish it.anet flagship game maybe but not ncsofts.

Ragnarox.9601:

Gw2 sales dropping? They lie! Everything is perfect here, community is great, game is great, expansion is great, everything is great and there are endless rivers of honey and milk in game too.

/turned off sarcasm

As I said before, this expansion is not worth 45€ atm (feel bad for those that spent 100€). They hyped us with so much content and everything and we got gem shop expansion with nerfed core game rewards. Esports failed, balance failed, wvw borders are dead except EB. Only few armors that are obtainable through game. PVP is crap now, should I continue?…

Graphics of the expansion is one thing that is positive to me, praise to the graphic dev team. And some elite specs….

Very unhappy customer.

whats to be sarcastic about ive seen more life in the game since the xpac and the xpac isnt even done yet they havnt even started the living story stuff they already stated the big patches wont start hitting till after the new years. So its hardly a fail.

Ragnarox.9601:

As I said before, this expansion is not worth 45€ atm (feel bad for those that spent 100€). Very unhappy customer.

You may be unhappy but I am not and I am one of those that spent the $100 for the ultimate. No regrets whatsoever from me, my other half nor everyone else I know personally that paid the $100. Those that I know personally are all having a blast with HoT. So don’t bother “feeling bad” for us for having fun in the expansion, but rather feel bad for yourself that you are not having fun.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

In many ways CoH was ahead of it’s time. Sure it’s bad compared to today’s games graphically, it’s an old game. But it’s definitely one of the better MMOs out there. Character generation in that game had more options than any other game I’ve ever seen. And those fans that were there at the end were die hard fans. I know a few people who played it regularly and I dabbled. Don’t judge an old MMO by watching a video. You’ll often get the wrong idea.

Ragnarox.9601:

Gw2 sales dropping? They lie! Everything is perfect here, community is great, game is great, expansion is great, everything is great and there are endless rivers of honey and milk in game too.

/turned off sarcasm

As I said before, this expansion is not worth 45€ atm (feel bad for those that spent 100€). They hyped us with so much content and everything and we got gem shop expansion with nerfed core game rewards. Esports failed, balance failed, wvw borders are dead except EB. Only few armors that are obtainable through game. PVP is crap now, should I continue?…

Graphics of the expansion is one thing that is positive to me, praise to the graphic dev team. And some elite specs….

Very unhappy customer.

Your personal unhappiness doesn’t actually mean that sales are dropping though, just as me enjoying the product doesn’t mean it’s selling off the shelves. No one but Anet knows how we’ll it’s doing, for a least six months. I say that because the first month will be buoyed up by preorders and launch. But if the profits are high six months down the road, that means either people are buying it, or spending money in the cash shop.

I’m relatively sure the game isn’t in bad shape even if the expansion didn’t get the reception Anet wanted, but we’ll see.

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

In many ways CoH was ahead of it’s time. Sure it’s bad compared to today’s games graphically, it’s an old game. But it’s definitely one of the better MMOs out there. Character generation in that game had more options than any other game I’ve ever seen. And those fans that were there at the end were die hard fans. I know a few people who played it regularly and I dabbled. Don’t judge an old MMO by watching a video. You’ll often get the wrong idea.

I am here with vayne

See all the things we are learning about each other vayne? I find it amazing and warms my heart during this cold season…

And all this time we could have held hands and talked about this stuff too before if you had opened up your heart to me

Swagger.1459:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

In many ways CoH was ahead of it’s time. Sure it’s bad compared to today’s games graphically, it’s an old game. But it’s definitely one of the better MMOs out there. Character generation in that game had more options than any other game I’ve ever seen. And those fans that were there at the end were die hard fans. I know a few people who played it regularly and I dabbled. Don’t judge an old MMO by watching a video. You’ll often get the wrong idea.

I am here with vayne

Bet you never thought you’d say those words in that order. lol

Vayne.8563:

Swagger.1459:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

In many ways CoH was ahead of it’s time. Sure it’s bad compared to today’s games graphically, it’s an old game. But it’s definitely one of the better MMOs out there. Character generation in that game had more options than any other game I’ve ever seen. And those fans that were there at the end were die hard fans. I know a few people who played it regularly and I dabbled. Don’t judge an old MMO by watching a video. You’ll often get the wrong idea.

I am here with vayne

Bet you never thought you’d say those words in that order. lol

Made some edits too

Oh, I’ve agreed with you on many occasions (maybe not in a direct quote), but now I know why our hearts were strung together somehow even when you seemed the villain…

You have the heart of a hero my friend, and from now on I AM HERE WITH VAYNE!

Come with me now vayne and I shall sidekick you on our heroic adventures to save tyria!

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

You can “feel” sales dropping?
I can “feel” them just fine.
Someone else probably “feels” they’re rising.

Was that sarcasm or something?

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

You can “feel” sales dropping?
I can “feel” them just fine.
Someone else probably “feels” they’re rising.

Was that sarcasm or something?

Swagger.1459:

“cost-efficiency” means reinvesting the bare minimum to turn some profit in this case.

Nope, Cost efficiency means achieving the most out of an investment.

Swagger.1459:

Sadly, this can be seen in many aspect of the game and why EVERYTHING is bltc (gem sales) centric… Don’t worry, I understand that this is a play for free game and they need to earn a profit somehow…, but that’s not the point here or the issues I’m talking about…

Must be playing a different game because I haven’t had the need of investing gems at all. Reached max lvl/skill/gear without the need of the gem store while still looking awesome! .. must have missed that “EVERYTHING”.

Swagger.1459:

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why we only have a single new map now for wvw and nothing else…

A single map (very different than the others) is NOT very cost efficient, …having a whole bunch of them being all alterations of existing ones would be cost efficient.

Swagger.1459:

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why the raid is so tiny and boring, thus needing to be gated by these boss mechanics… and why we don’t even have a preview of legendary armors that were touted as the ultimate rewards…

Size of map is rather design, You can see some REAL cost efficiency here tho as the bosses are using the same model with a different skin/color.

Swagger.1459:

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why events like winter festival are so underwhelming… and the focus is more on material and karma “sinks” (for very very very poor rewards) and taking away, as opposed to meaningful rewards in return for these “sinks” and “giving” back to the loyal fan base that has been here supporting this game…

Lol the new rewards are basically the only thing they invested into with wintersday, the REAL cost efficiency that we can see here is having the same events as previous years.

Swagger.1459:

“Cost-efficiency” is why MEANINGFUL profession development and combat system improvements have been neglected despite these areas being the ABSOLUTELY MOST IMPORTANT AND VITAL ASPECTS of this game…

There’s no end -_- … Creating a new specialization is NOT cost efficient, means creating new lore, images, icons, mechanics, etc… Cost efficient solution would have been just adding more skills and elites.

Swagger.1459:

“Cost-efficiency” is why we are very “meta” content “light” and why everything it turning into mastery and reward tracks…. So instead of simply amazing content, with amazing professions to play, that is highly repayable on mere fun factor alone… we have an artificial life extender as THE “retention” tool. Now I don’t mind the reward and mastery track stuff, I believe they are good, but here it is used to mask gaping holes and flaws instead of being a ++enhancement.

“Meta” content light? … Kinda all new PvE content is “Meta” centered.
Mastery system is another example of not to cost effective development (they even had to modify existing core content to add masteries)

Swagger.1459:

I hope the mentality and over arching goal to “just save money” through “cost-efficiency” doesn’t command gw2 2016… because that is not doing this game or the players any justice… Plus it doesn’t look good either to those paying attention.

I hope they keep being cost efficient while adding NEW content so we get to enjoy it faster and more often.

Swagger.1459:

… very very very serious profession improvements and development.
…snip…

Most common updates I see from them is class balancing, don’t know what you are talking about. Yet new specializations are under development, but we don’t want them to be rushed creating unbalance and heaps of bugs, do we?

Swagger.1459:

GW2 can get there, but it can’t get there on budget tires…

In short, I think what you wanted to say, or what you are complaining about is not the result of Cost efficiency, is the result of a low budget, but there’s no article, no press release saying they want to cut gw2 budget, so I don’t know really where are you coming from.

Added some images showing some examples of cost efficiency (notice the bird flocks in the 3 images? pretty much the same flock used several times, same with falling leaves, and so many more…

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

Wanze, these are the game boards so I’m using this medium constructively… Your arguments are null and void. Thanks. I’m not going to negotiate ncsoft’s role anymore or use of these forums unnecessarily. There are bigger messages to discuss.

You yet have to lay out how their statement, which you based your OP on, is related to development of the game and not marketing costs.

Cost effective marketing has nothing to do with the flaws you see in this game.

The conference call didn’t say that they were looking to do something like reinvest into their games to increase long term revenue and earnings now did they? Right?

Instead they are building a new mobile studio, has 60 employees out of the planned 100 and leveraging (gambling with) a new ip instead of propping up their current bread winners…

Gw2 is an amazing game in ways and just added 2 million new users since play for free and has a 3.1 million monthly concurrency rate now… So maybe time to reinvest and boost momentum and staying power and growing power for gw2 into 2016…

It’s simple to separate “cost efficiency” and “reinvest”… It’s pretty self explanatory… The rest is just PR money talk mumbo jumbo for people who look at their accounting statements wondering what happened… It’s different for the boots on the ground…

Then i dont know why you claim cost efficiency is the root of all evil, if its the lack of reinvestment.

If you want reinvestment, say so. Just because it wasnt mentioned in a transcript from a conference call made by an mmo fansite, doesnt mean they dont do it.

You can claim its PR mumbo jumbo but then it makes no sense to use it to back up your OP.

Find a statement from NCSoft that says they arent reinvesting into GW2 and we can continue the discussion.

I’ve brought up both topics because they are interrelated to make my case. I’m not sure you read things fully… Those are two differ topics and both of which I’ve addressed separately…

This topic has progressed so you are twisting thoughts just to argue…

Did you not read the op? Or were you too busy telling me to buy gems if I don’t like the funding from the owners?

You jumped in mid conversation with a silly comment on an important topic so obviously you are not serious with this discussion in the first place.

You run in circular arguments just to argue and that doesn’t move the topic forward…

Seriously, good luck…

So its fine, if you throw in 2 different topics into the conversation and its not fine if i question their correlation?

If you took the time to read the op… It’s pretty clear…

I read your OP several times even after the edit and its all over the place.

What it boils down to is that you want NCSoft to invest money in the game because you dont like certain aspects of the game and you claim their marketing strategy is why we dont have classes balanced like you want them to be, only 1 wvw map, only 1 raid and so on.

You just want them to sponsor more ressources and tell Anet to make a better game and give no specific suggestions on how this would generate more ROI for them, except better gem store sales through better items and GW2 being a better product.

You completely misinterpreted what was said in the conference call because it has absolutely nothing to do with game development.

Yup, totally agree!
Also most people doesn’t know how to read charts, sales dropped from 2nd qt but are higher than 1st qt …. peak due to expansion release? anyone?

After reading from both sides. I am going to just say that both sides have a point. It also boils down to trust.

With how this expansion with, and with how many people are unhappy. It is easy to jump on the “Cutting cost” Wagon. The only thing I can say is that you have to answer that question yourself.

Does the content, the game balance, and overall fun of the game improved? Or did the game feel half done, balance feels out of place, and content feels boring?

Both sides will not change each other mind. The state of game right now for some feels like they already trying to use “cost efficiency” game.

We have seen that line before in other mmos. We have seen decent MMOS turn into a puddle of life support because money not funded into them. Changes they want to do can’t do because of time, and needing to make a profit.

So if you are unhappy with the game, and see something like cost efficiency getting tossed around. You have every right to be worried, and every right to question. History has showed us many times that you should always be worried.

rager.4963:

After reading from both sides. I am going to just say that both sides have a point. It also boils down to trust.

With how this expansion with, and with how many people are unhappy. It is easy to jump on the “Cutting cost” Wagon. The only thing I can say is that you have to answer that question yourself.

Does the content, the game balance, and overall fun of the game improved? Or did the game feel half done, balance feels out of place, and content feels boring?

Both sides will not change each other mind. The state of game right now for some feels like they already trying to use “cost efficiency” game.

We have seen that line before in other mmos. We have seen decent MMOS turn into a puddle of life support because money not funded into them. Changes they want to do can’t do because of time, and needing to make a profit.

So if you are unhappy with the game, and see something like cost efficiency getting tossed around. You have every right to be worried, and every right to question. History has showed us many times that you should always be worried.

Cost efficiency != lower budget

kuritsutian.2987:

rager.4963:

After reading from both sides. I am going to just say that both sides have a point. It also boils down to trust.

With how this expansion with, and with how many people are unhappy. It is easy to jump on the “Cutting cost” Wagon. The only thing I can say is that you have to answer that question yourself.

Does the content, the game balance, and overall fun of the game improved? Or did the game feel half done, balance feels out of place, and content feels boring?

Both sides will not change each other mind. The state of game right now for some feels like they already trying to use “cost efficiency” game.

We have seen that line before in other mmos. We have seen decent MMOS turn into a puddle of life support because money not funded into them. Changes they want to do can’t do because of time, and needing to make a profit.

So if you are unhappy with the game, and see something like cost efficiency getting tossed around. You have every right to be worried, and every right to question. History has showed us many times that you should always be worried.

Cost efficiency != lower budget

So you say, but the history of mmos and what happens to them after awhile should make players worried when that term gets tossed around and cutting corners is already showing up in the game with HOT. You can think what you want, and people will how they want. Cost efficiency has a history of biting consumers in the butt.

:)

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

In many ways CoH was ahead of it’s time. Sure it’s bad compared to today’s games graphically, it’s an old game. But it’s definitely one of the better MMOs out there. Character generation in that game had more options than any other game I’ve ever seen. And those fans that were there at the end were die hard fans. I know a few people who played it regularly and I dabbled. Don’t judge an old MMO by watching a video. You’ll often get the wrong idea.

I was one of those die hard fans that played right until then end. And I mean that, literally. I was there when the servers shut down and we got disconnected. And that… hurt.

Graphically, yes, the game was showing its age. Yes, using powers rooted you to the spot. These were things they couldn’t change within the game, and there were plenty of flaws beyond those. And yet, the game was still awesome, and better than the superhero games that came out after it. That says something.

Did you know that they wanted to make a CoH2, but NCSoft shot the idea down? They didn’t think superheroes were a big enough thing, too niche. And yet, look at how many superhero movies are coming out in 2016 alone. I think it’s safe to say that NCSoft made a mistake there.

What really, truly bothers me is that CoH2 didn’t get a chance, but GW2 did. And out of the gate, GW2 was amazing. I’ll gladly admit that, it deserves it. But over time, I have seen ANet falter and fail, not having the drive or faith in their original vision to see it through and push this game forward to how great and revolutionary it could have been. To see ANet be given this chance that Paragon Studios was denied, and just waste it… you have no idea how frustrating that is.

ANet, you’ve been given a chance to reach for the stars. Stop playing in the mud.

[Edit] Oh, and as to CoH subscribers? By that point, it was a hybrid Subscription/Free to Play. You could play for free with some limitations, spending enough in the game store unlocked some of those limitations. Subscription lifted all of them, carried some other benefits, and even gave you some monthly store credit. But it’s safe to say that not all players were actually subscribed at the end.

Here’s a message:

1.Play Street Fighter (ignore Akuma he’s broken to the point of players agreeing not to use him in tournaments and being outright banned in others)

2.Why is this game series the best of all time? It’s due to its very tight and intricate balancing. You have skill gate classes that in the hands of a noob is weak but controlled by a skilled player is top tier. So it balances for skill and offers lots of strategies. People may say throw spamming is “cheap” but that’s a genuine learn to play issue that has a counter, and that counter has a counter. This deep and involved play is rooted in excellent balancing.

3.Please understand that your top priority is PvP balance. Balance and control for skill and team tactics. Add an assymetrical yet balanced map with choke points like Alterac Valley but with Voidstar like channeling for team progression. In old societies people respected hunters. They used bow and arrows, which involves one arrow needing to be carefully aimed. Such skillful actions brought lots of respect. Nowadays guns have many rounds and scopes so there are lots of do-overs so people hunting today need less skill than their ancestors. Suddenly, hunters have no respect. In other words make skill matter not give everyone passives and reset buttons everywhere.

In a way that is not subject to interpretations.

Development time= Coding lines / manpower
Cost efficiency = Development time / $$$

Since there’s no budget cuts announced, $$$ remains constant, … so does the manpower as there’s no announcement about it, that only means reducing the development time by cutting the lines of code needed meaning that they are re-utilizing existing resources for shorter development time… they are trading more content released for less variated content (expect lots of skins content coming ) … which kinda makes sense for a strategy of the last quarter, where variety was just recently added with the expansion.

Palador.2170:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am here with Vayne and Wanze.

Also lol City of Heroes, had not even half a million subscribers during the shutdown, it was niche and old. I had to look up a video and omg this looks so horrible… I don’t know one single person who played this game.

In many ways CoH was ahead of it’s time. Sure it’s bad compared to today’s games graphically, it’s an old game. But it’s definitely one of the better MMOs out there. Character generation in that game had more options than any other game I’ve ever seen. And those fans that were there at the end were die hard fans. I know a few people who played it regularly and I dabbled. Don’t judge an old MMO by watching a video. You’ll often get the wrong idea.

I was one of those die hard fans that played right until then end. And I mean that, literally. I was there when the servers shut down and we got disconnected. And that… hurt.

Graphically, yes, the game was showing its age. Yes, using powers rooted you to the spot. These were things they couldn’t change within the game, and there were plenty of flaws beyond those. And yet, the game was still awesome, and better than the superhero games that came out after it. That says something.

Did you know that they wanted to make a CoH2, but NCSoft shot the idea down? They didn’t think superheroes were a big enough thing, too niche. And yet, look at how many superhero movies are coming out in 2016 alone. I think it’s safe to say that NCSoft made a mistake there.

What really, truly bothers me is that CoH2 didn’t get a chance, but GW2 did. And out of the gate, GW2 was amazing. I’ll gladly admit that, it deserves it. But over time, I have seen ANet falter and fail, not having the drive or faith in their original vision to see it through and push this game forward to how great and revolutionary it could have been. To see ANet be given this chance that Paragon Studios was denied, and just waste it… you have no idea how frustrating that is.

ANet, you’ve been given a chance to reach for the stars. Stop playing in the mud.

[Edit] Oh, and as to CoH subscribers? By that point, it was a hybrid Subscription/Free to Play. You could play for free with some limitations, spending enough in the game store unlocked some of those limitations. Subscription lifted all of them, carried some other benefits, and even gave you some monthly store credit. But it’s safe to say that not all players were actually subscribed at the end.

Yeah… Then they invested in wildstar instead… Sad sad

And here comes a new ip… Probably “unchained candy crushers league of warcrafting”… or something…

Raziel.4216:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

You can “feel” sales dropping?
I can “feel” them just fine.
Someone else probably “feels” they’re rising.

Was that sarcasm or something?

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Even taking into account things that mask the actual evidence, like megaservers.

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

Similarly, if you do WvW and the maps are a lot emptier than they were, you don’t need to be psychic to think that that may not be a good sign.

Personally, the bigger guild I’m in is not noticeably emptier (the same people, who always talked in chat, still do), but I do get a feeling of people being less content and the game being less active, in general.

Swagger.1459:

Added some images showing some examples of cost efficiency (notice the bird flocks in the 3 images? pretty much the same flock used several times, same with falling leaves, and so many more…

I can live with that, TBH.

Especially as, other than that, the artwork is very good.

What I couldn’t live with, was the stuff in-game in SWTOR, where it all looked far too similar, you could clearly see the octagonal tile patterns that made up the grass and the same building layout was used for way too many buildings.

I accepted octagons (or was it hexagons?) from TBC-era WoW landscapes, due to the age, but by the time SWTOR came out, I expected better.

Same with the buildings – I expect that there will be some duplication, but the amount of same building syndrome, in that game, was off the charts.

Other than that, it wasn’t a bad game, to be fair.

Tigaseye.2047:

Swagger.1459:

Added some images showing some examples of cost efficiency (notice the bird flocks in the 3 images? pretty much the same flock used several times, same with falling leaves, and so many more…

I can live with that, TBH.

Especially as, other than that, the artwork is very good.

What I couldn’t live with, was the stuff in-game in SWTOR, where it all looked far too similar, you could clearly see the octagonal tile patterns that made up the grass and the same building layout was used for way too many buildings.

I accepted octagons (or was it hexagons?) from TBC-era WoW landscapes, due to the age, but by the time SWTOR came out, I expected better.

Same with the buildings – I expect that there will be some duplication, but the amount of same building syndrome, in that game, was off the charts.

Other than that, it wasn’t a bad game, to be fair.

Exactly! it’s a common practice that has been there since the age of 8 bits gaming and if done right some people will never notice, the witch hunt of the non existent witch was uncalled for!

Tigaseye.2047:

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Not a valid argument, unless you can prove that your “sense” is somehow a valid predictor when compared to real evidence.

Tigaseye.2047:

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

You’d need a huge sample size for that to be valid.
My guild is very active, can I extrapolate that and assume that everyone else’s is doing just fine?
No, that’d be just as flawed.
Same for WvW maps, we know they’re doing bad not because we “feel” it, we’ve Arenanet telling us they’ll try to fix it.
Bellyfeelings are subjective and not a valid source of info.

Tigaseye.2047:

Raziel.4216:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

You can “feel” sales dropping?
I can “feel” them just fine.
Someone else probably “feels” they’re rising.

Was that sarcasm or something?

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Even taking into account things that mask the actual evidence, like megaservers.

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

Similarly, if you do WvW and the maps are a lot emptier than they were, you don’t need to be psychic to think that that may not be a good sign.

Personally, the bigger guild I’m in is not noticeably emptier (the same people, who always talked in chat, still do), but I do get a feeling of people being less content and the game being less active, in general.

Swagger.1459:

Added some images showing some examples of cost efficiency (notice the bird flocks in the 3 images? pretty much the same flock used several times, same with falling leaves, and so many more…

I can live with that, TBH.

Especially as, other than that, the artwork is very good.

What I couldn’t live with, was the stuff in-game in SWTOR, where it all looked far too similar, you could clearly see the octagonal tile patterns that made up the grass and the same building layout was used for way too many buildings.

I accepted octagons (or was it hexagons?) from TBC-era WoW landscapes, due to the age, but by the time SWTOR came out, I expected better.

Same with the buildings – I expect that there will be some duplication, but the amount of same building syndrome, in that game, was off the charts.

Other than that, it wasn’t a bad game, to be fair.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm that wasn’t my quote… You got it mixed up with someone else…

Gw2 is a great game but ANet has a terrible management team.

Give ANet a good management team and this game can reach new heights.

If NCsoft don’t invest in other games, those money are going to investors pocket anyway.

Stop thinking other games even have anything to do with GW2. Even if NCSoft dont’ have any money, they can raise funds or borrow money.

And stop thinking you and GW2 are the center of the universe. And stop being delusion that you or Anet are some how the victim.

I’m just going to skip all the junk already posted and remind people that Anet’s stated before that all future releases will also be locked behind HoT. So LS2 is as far as people can go with the base game. That also implies they intend to continue the living story.

Beyond that, I’d also venture a guess that they actually make most of their money off the gemstore than they do off initial sales.

Ragnarox.9601:

Graphics of the expansion is one thing that is positive to me, praise to the graphic dev team. And some elite specs….

‘Visual noise reduction’, withstanding, perhaps, but many folks are quite unhappy.

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Not a valid argument, unless you can prove that your “sense” is somehow a valid predictor when compared to real evidence.

Tigaseye.2047:

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

You’d need a huge sample size for that to be valid.
My guild is very active, can I extrapolate that and assume that everyone else’s is doing just fine?
No, that’d be just as flawed.
Same for WvW maps, we know they’re doing bad not because we “feel” it, we’ve Arenanet telling us they’ll try to fix it.
Bellyfeelings are subjective and not a valid source of info.

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

…and in fact, one could argue that people’s feelings about things are, quite possibly, more important than evidence, when it comes to frivolous things, like games.

As, if people don’t “feel” like playing a game, for whatever reason (proven, or otherwise), they don’t have to.

Swagger.1459:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm that wasn’t my quote… You got it mixed up with someone else…

Yeah, sorry Swagger.

I tried to edit, to delete a long swathe of quoted text and the first time I tried I must have left both your names, as it didn’t post at all and by the time I got to redo it, I must have deleted the wrong name.

For some reason, this forum can take up to a minute to load a reply/edit.

So, by then, I have often totally lost the will to live, frankly.

I’ve never had this problem with any other forum.

Or not to anywhere near this extent, anyway.

Tigaseye.2047:

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Not a valid argument, unless you can prove that your “sense” is somehow a valid predictor when compared to real evidence.

Tigaseye.2047:

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

You’d need a huge sample size for that to be valid.
My guild is very active, can I extrapolate that and assume that everyone else’s is doing just fine?
No, that’d be just as flawed.
Same for WvW maps, we know they’re doing bad not because we “feel” it, we’ve Arenanet telling us they’ll try to fix it.
Bellyfeelings are subjective and not a valid source of info.

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

…and in fact, one could argue that people’s feelings about things are, quite possibly, more important than evidence, when it comes to frivolous things, like games.

As, if people don’t “feel” like playing a game, for whatever reason (proven, or otherwise), they don’t have to.

Swagger.1459:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm that wasn’t my quote… You got it mixed up with someone else…

Yeah, sorry Swagger.

I tried to edit, to delete a long swathe of quoted text and the first time I tried I must have left both your names, as it didn’t post at all and by the time I got to redo it, I must have deleted the wrong name.

For some reason, this forum can take up to a minute to load a reply/edit.

So, by then, I have often totally lost the will to live, frankly.

I’ve never had this problem with any other forum.

Or not to anywhere near this extent, anyway.

Haha I forgive you

See, these broken forums are another reason ncsoft should dump more money into Anet

Swagger.1459:

…snip

See, these broken forums are another reason ncsoft should dump more money into Anet

Maybe this topic will be the deciding factor in the winner of the tourney making a donation to ANet.

After three years of being broken we defiantly won’t see it come any other way.

even the gw2 sub reddit is pessimistic about the way forward https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3yjxdr/what_are_we_expecting_in_2016/

Tigaseye.2047:

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

Sure, just don’t call’em valid sources of info when one is requested to check the validity of an argument, and make sure you admit you lack any real info to back up the “game’s dying!!!1!, mass exodus!! everyone abandon ship!!” arguments.
There’s way too many people throwing the doom predictions around like they’re facts. When a source is requested, people have “numbers”, heck someone even had “a conference call” between important people and “financial documents” to prove his point, he just forgot to link’em.
Remember, you’re entitled to your opinion, your “bellyfeelings”, but not your facts, reality checks are not limited to science projects.

Coulter.2315:

I’m not sure you could find me a single business in existance that doesn’t aim for “cost efficiency.”

SquareEnix once threw an Final Fantasy XI event in my college town. Admission was free. Pizza and drinks served all day long was free. Entry to the Q&A panel was free. Mingling with the models they’d paid to dress up like Mithra was free. Entry into the tournament was free. Entry into the level 1 race through an endgame zone was free. Entry into the costume contest was free. They gave away all kinds prizes, up to and including a PC in a tower with a custom FFXI graphics design. And great fun was had by all.

Given that all of this cost SE a lot of money, and they recouped none at all from admission, how was that event “cost efficient”? I’ll tell you; because though “good will” isn’t listed on earnings reports, it can greatly contribute to profitability.

By my estimate, ArenaNet burned all of their good will some time ago and now they’re just milking whatever loyal customers they’ve got left while the milk’s still flowing. You can disagree with me if you want, but one look at the cash shop offerings over the last year contrasted to those added in-game will tell you quite clearly that I’m right.