Guild Wars 2

stemare.2578:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

I most agree with your post, but that’s just false.
GW2 has NEVER been advertised as a PvP game by Arenanet.

Many promotional videos about GW2, before the open beta weekends, had developers saying that they wanted to cater to the esport community, that was basically and a clever way of advertising GW2 as a future esport. Hence, many enthusiastic pvp players took this as a sign that GW2 would push to be an esport eventually and that is the reason why many pvp oriented players picked up this game.

Also, Actions speak louder than words.

A prime example is that Anet spend most of their PvP resources in the beginning of 2013 developing the Ranking system, spectator mode, rank/solo 5v5 tournaments, held their first tournament championship during the PAX event, State of the Game podcast focus mainly on sPvP balance. Just because they never admitted to it fully doesn’t mean that they didn’t make teaser statements that were taken seriously by esport enthusiasts.

I am not saying you are wrong, but they did entertain the concept to keep their pvp fan base hopeful.

Blizzard admitted early on that they weren’t going to make PvP a priority over PvE for WoW; whereas, ANet always had plans to focus on both PvE and sPvP with WvW as a casual friendly PvP environment. Furthermore, the bad decisions from Anet to only focus on Conquest modes and limited profession balance has pushed many pvpers away from this game.

Arrow.3856:

Assyrian.4827:

Drkxamas.6359:

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

+4

+5

+6 o-O

AydenStar.4216:

Is a failure IMHO.

Why?

sPvP

1. Look at the Mists on all servers. What a waste of space. All different kinds of target/dodging dummies, a few NPC with Ranger pet AI intelligence to fight against. Anet you want players in the Mist. Open up player dueling and you’ll see numbers start to climb immediately.

2. One full year of only mediocre Conquest maps have pushed away Players from dire boredom with no quality reward system for all that time put into it.

3. No changes to sPvP trinkets and condition mechanics force all professions into cookie cutter AoE condition spamming builds ?.

4. The wak-a-mole Profession revamps to Nercos, Warriors, Thieves when professions like the Elementalist, Ranger and Engineer still have mechanic and bugs issues from Beta that not been fixed.

5. Trying to profit off an unfinished product (Spvp) is just bad business.

WvW

1. WvW is the only place for PvXer to PvP. PvXers enjoy fighting players on a smaller scale which doesn’t mean put an sPvP obstacle course in the middle of the borderland.

2. WvW large group fights on a competitive level only involve 4 professions: Hammer Warriors, Hammer/Condition Removing Guardians, Staff Elementalists and Staff/Plauge Necros. A mesmer or two are need for Veil but that is it. No one welcomes Rangers, Thieves, Engineers or even up-levels in competitive WvW play yet I bet up-levels of the 4 main WvW professions would be more welcome than Ranger, Thieves and Engineers.

3. We hunger for PvP not standing in towers or in front of them dancing around arrowcart fire most of the time in WvW.

4. GvG is a creature of the lack of PvP gamemodes in GW2

5. Leagues will only push players away because of the server population disparates.
GW2 is not a good PvP game and that is a major reason why players have left in legions. ANet, the problem is that your vision of this game is just bad for it. This is not the Field of Dreams where: “If you build it, they will come. This is the real world: if you build it and don’t improve it properly; people will get bored of it, than leave it. Most players once they leave a MMO they have played for a while will never come back.

My beef with GW2 is the profession development favoritism and the slow turtle speed of balance changes proves that this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

So what’s the solution? I see criticism here, but no solutions. What needs to happen to fix the issues you have with the game? Can it be fixed or is it broken beyond repair?

one thing i would like to see in WvW is more incentive to attack keeps with defenders and more incentives to defend a keep.

I would also like to see them limit the amount of Artillery a keep can have in it. then remove the AOE cap from spells and force people out of the whole “stack on me” mentality.

if you give defense bonus people will defend, putting a cap on artillery will make people want to attack better defended keeps. thus better fights.

Mada.5319:

Thieves are so incredibly important in wvw. Guilds are very, very particular with who they want to play thief because it’s a high risk role which requires a lot of skill and battlefield awareness. It’s a tough class to play in wvw (actual wvw, not roaming) and only 2-3 are needed in a zerg. Good thieves are in high demand.

My guild is jonesing for a couple great thieves. It was my first lvl 80 but I’m honestly jot that great at it so I switched to guard which fits me so much better. The engis in my guildare loved as well as they can bring so many fields and knockdowns into the melee range as well as mess with the periphery. Mesmers are also of great use with boon stripping and now mantra builds. I dodon’t really understand where this guy gets his “only 4 professions needed” deal. Yes its heavy in those 4 but the other professions ha e excellent uses. Just don’t need as many.

That said, I am sad about the lack of viability rangers have in WvW. At least in zergish fights. A good ranger coyld be used as a periphery hunter alongside thieves I suppose. Some guilds are using them for that.

((shrug)) I think we could split up zergs with nothing more complicated than raising the target cap on offensive AoEs to 10. Double the damage tightly packed zergs take without doubling the benefits for packing tight and you have a little more motivation to spread out.

Wouldn’t hurt if downed characters also took priority in AoE target selection.

Ahlen.7591:

Khallis.5708:

my biggest problem with WvW is there is little to no strategy its whoever brings the biggest Zerg wins there is no way for a smaller group to outplay a larger group.

AND the only viable strat in WvW is Stacking and moving together as a giant clusterf*** of crap through a fight. in every other MMORPG that offers massive WvW type fights, a group doing that would get cursed at and told “stop being noob zerglings and spread out!”

but in GW2 is perfectly viable and infact the dominant tactic.

This is really mostly due to downstate.

Downstate means that blobbing/zerging is the most effective, because either you rally from all the crazyness, or your zerg resses you afterward.

If they removed downstate it would be less swingy, and the greater skilled group could actually beat the outnumbering group.

I never thought about the downed state this way, you’re actually pretty right on that.

How the downed state works, having the downed state, not having actual roles, and AoE having a limiting number of 5 all combined make for the current all ’round meta for this game.

AoE limits being a big factor (as big as downed state I think) to zerg/stack meta. Since they added the 5 target limit on all AoE, stacking is no longer dangerous. Previously when AoE didn’t have limits on how many targets would be hit if 20 people stacked tight, and 3 eles threw their AoE in the middle of the mass, everyone would take equal damage and be quickly killed.

Although this can also lead to some issues it did give much better strategy to the gameplay as well as better value to roles/build variety.

As far as this whole stack/zerg mess that came to be, I don’t think it was caused on purpose by Anet, I think they had very specific plans but putting all the individual plans together caused this mess.

It’s a shame it’s a bit too late for downed state to be removed and roles to be added to fix this mess (they could at least better refine their current dps/support/CC roles).

AydenStar.4216:

Blizzard admitted early on that they weren’t going to make PvP a priority over PvE for WoW; whereas, ANet always had plans to focus on both PvE and sPvP with WvW as a casual friendly PvP environment. Furthermore, the bad decisions from Anet to only focus on Conquest modes and limited profession balance has pushed many pvpers away from this game.

And in fact many hardcore guilds flocked to WvW but anet refused to acknowledge this and change development priorities because of it.

If I had comments like this on a thread I made my stalker ArenaNet friend would have locked the thread and given me an infraction…(sorry, I just find it funny that the moderators in these forums are actual players). There is a lot of hate towards Anet in here. On top of that you’re talking bad about parts of their game and they throw a huge fit over that.

Hey a company I worked for put a lot resource into a project it wasn’t even funny. As a few years went by 3 other programs they had going were dragging behind. So much was focused in one area that these 3 other programs ended up failing miserably. (I’m not making that up, either)

What did you guys think when they focused on content release every two weeks? Other areas of this game are going to suffer, it’s just business practice and that’s how things happen. No one will ever change how a business is run, it’s just how it is.

Tibstrike.2974:

Mada.5319:

Thieves are so incredibly important in wvw. Guilds are very, very particular with who they want to play thief because it’s a high risk role which requires a lot of skill and battlefield awareness. It’s a tough class to play in wvw (actual wvw, not roaming) and only 2-3 are needed in a zerg. Good thieves are in high demand.

My guild is jonesing for a couple great thieves. It was my first lvl 80 but I’m honestly jot that great at it so I switched to guard which fits me so much better. The engis in my guildare loved as well as they can bring so many fields and knockdowns into the melee range as well as mess with the periphery. Mesmers are also of great use with boon stripping and now mantra builds. I dodon’t really understand where this guy gets his “only 4 professions needed” deal. Yes its heavy in those 4 but the other professions ha e excellent uses. Just don’t need as many.

That said, I am sad about the lack of viability rangers have in WvW. At least in zergish fights. A good ranger coyld be used as a periphery hunter alongside thieves I suppose. Some guilds are using them for that.

Heh, you’re the first and only guild I have ever known that wants “good thieves” because I have yet to really see any good ones in WvW. I have yet to see ANY thing pull off what I can to a 50-Man zerg in WvW and walk away from it. I tried teaching other thieves the exact same thing telling them “Hey, YOU ARE a huge benefit in a zerg, you are greatly needed, here’s what you do, ok?”

Why? Because I get sick of Thieves saying “Oh, we’re so useless in WvW zergs, we’re pointless”. No, they are pointless because they refuse to see how their class was designed and how to benefit it. “But if I can’t 1shot someone inside a Zerg, we’re useless!” <— More bad Thief talk I see in this game.

ArenaNet, hates, my, guts, with, a, very, huge, hatred, passion. They absolutely despise me. (I’m not kidding, I’m dead serious). But, that’s their problem, not mine – I just find it funny . . .

There is a time for a Dagger, there is a time for a Pistol, there is a time for a Bow and there is a time for a Sword. Thieves haven’t figured that out yet and stick to Dagger/X (or X/Dagger) and a Bow. That’s all you see: a Dagger/Bow Thief that will claim up and down that “it’s the best setup for WvW zergs” till their blue in the face.

“Oh but you should see this thief who only uses a Bow! HE IS GOOD!” Sorry, but no. No, and no.

I gave up trying to help Thieves a while back because they refuse to understand the class and accept they are one of the biggest benefits in a Zerg, more than any other class. So, I will just remain the only, and last come next years releases, thief that knew how to be effective in a zerg.

I have always said that common sense is either born in your, or not at all. It’s like watching American Idol: You can sing, or you can’t sing.

Mesket.5728:

My thoughts on WVW

If you ever played warhammer online you will realize how much of a joke is wvw in this game. (it was not perfect but man i find it so much better than this)

no body blocking, no tanks (where are the shield walls? the line of heavies stopping the enemies for getting inside a castle?), siege machines takes too much to be built and too little to be destroyed, you have to run many minutes for a 10 seconds fight and then run back a huge distance, no raid/huge party interface, etc (yes etc.. i don’t wanna be typing forever).

This game got the worst from other games massive pvp: Lots of unorganized zergs against each other where AOE is king. Just a huge mess of red and green names running and doing nothing in particular, just AOEs and spamming 1. Eventually you see someone to hit but those are the rare opportunities.

Maps are designed for thousands of players and you barely get to see a few dozens (even at full when you have to wait in queue to enter, maps are still empty).

meh… it has potential but the things that (IMO) are not properly design for a massive pvp are core and I don’t expect them to change.

I agree with everything you have said. I have never played an mmo with “hundreds” of players against each other, but I don’t need to do that to see that there is something horribly wrong with the way WvW has been designed.

In fact, I just came from WvW since they have the new Season 1 achievements. There was a lot of “action” going on…but everything was just so boring. Equipping aoe weapon….then press 1111111.

Charak.9761:

sPvP needs:

DR on CC
Capture the Flag, Mini-WvW, and an invasion map (20v20)
Ways to spend glory (buy t6 mats?)

That would be a dream come true for me lol. I always thought WvW would have been a lot better if it was a LOT smaller and with only about 50 players on each side (less if there are 3 diff teams, though 1v1 team would be a lot easier to design)…..and have it where there is a clear winner in the end (game finishes because x team won).

CTF and invasion maps also sounds awesome for spvp.

You have just saved GW2 pvp if they ever listen to you lol.

stemare.2578:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

I most agree with your post, but that’s just false.
GW2 has NEVER been advertised as a PvP game by Arenanet.

False. Anet heavily advertised this game as being an esport. If they never did officially, it doesn’t matter. But in all interviews before the release of the game….they kept touting it as an esport.

Mesket.5728:

My thoughts on WVW

If you ever played warhammer online you will realize how much of a joke is wvw in this game. (it was not perfect but man i find it so much better than this)

no body blocking, no tanks (where are the shield walls? the line of heavies stopping the enemies for getting inside a castle?), siege machines takes too much to be built and too little to be destroyed, you have to run many minutes for a 10 seconds fight and then run back a huge distance, no raid/huge party interface, etc (yes etc.. i don’t wanna be typing forever).

This game got the worst from other games massive pvp: Lots of unorganized zergs against each other where AOE is king. Just a huge mess of red and green names running and doing nothing in particular, just AOEs and spamming 1. Eventually you see someone to hit but those are the rare opportunities.

Maps are designed for thousands of players and you barely get to see a few dozens (even at full when you have to wait in queue to enter, maps are still empty).

meh… it has potential but the things that (IMO) are not properly design for a massive pvp are core and I don’t expect them to change.

Not every single form of mass PvP requires tanks or body-blocking. The’re plenty of other mechanics to use.

Running back is an unavoidable evil. Imagine if you can just WP right next to the enemy garrison you’re trying to siege, the fight would never get anywhere as the two sides just constantly respawn next to each other.

Zergs being unorganised or organised is completely up to the player (or the commanders of each side). You got good commanders co-ordinates different teams to perform different roles across the map, and bad commanders who does the complete opposite.

Also, I don’t know about you, even in UW, one of the worse servers in the silver league, I see armies of people in WvW most of the time.

Crawford.4135:

Tibstrike.2974:

Mada.5319:

Thieves are so incredibly important in wvw. Guilds are very, very particular with who they want to play thief because it’s a high risk role which requires a lot of skill and battlefield awareness. It’s a tough class to play in wvw (actual wvw, not roaming) and only 2-3 are needed in a zerg. Good thieves are in high demand.

My guild is jonesing for a couple great thieves. It was my first lvl 80 but I’m honestly jot that great at it so I switched to guard which fits me so much better. The engis in my guildare loved as well as they can bring so many fields and knockdowns into the melee range as well as mess with the periphery. Mesmers are also of great use with boon stripping and now mantra builds. I dodon’t really understand where this guy gets his “only 4 professions needed” deal. Yes its heavy in those 4 but the other professions ha e excellent uses. Just don’t need as many.

That said, I am sad about the lack of viability rangers have in WvW. At least in zergish fights. A good ranger coyld be used as a periphery hunter alongside thieves I suppose. Some guilds are using them for that.

Heh, you’re the first and only guild I have ever known that wants “good thieves” because I have yet to really see any good ones in WvW. I have yet to see ANY thing pull off what I can to a 50-Man zerg in WvW and walk away from it. I tried teaching other thieves the exact same thing telling them “Hey, YOU ARE a huge benefit in a zerg, you are greatly needed, here’s what you do, ok?”

Why? Because I get sick of Thieves saying “Oh, we’re so useless in WvW zergs, we’re pointless”. No, they are pointless because they refuse to see how their class was designed and how to benefit it. “But if I can’t 1shot someone inside a Zerg, we’re useless!” <— More bad Thief talk I see in this game.

ArenaNet, hates, my, guts, with, a, very, huge, hatred, passion. They absolutely despise me. (I’m not kidding, I’m dead serious). But, that’s their problem, not mine – I just find it funny . . .

There is a time for a Dagger, there is a time for a Pistol, there is a time for a Bow and there is a time for a Sword. Thieves haven’t figured that out yet and stick to Dagger/X (or X/Dagger) and a Bow. That’s all you see: a Dagger/Bow Thief that will claim up and down that “it’s the best setup for WvW zergs” till their blue in the face.

“Oh but you should see this thief who only uses a Bow! HE IS GOOD!” Sorry, but no. No, and no.

I gave up trying to help Thieves a while back because they refuse to understand the class and accept they are one of the biggest benefits in a Zerg, more than any other class. So, I will just remain the only, and last come next years releases, thief that knew how to be effective in a zerg.

I have always said that common sense is either born in your, or not at all. It’s like watching American Idol: You can sing, or you can’t sing.

I run S/D in my guild runs while on thief. The evades are o so nice. Plus combined with a venom share build it actually hits like a tank as well. Of course I switch to shortbow if I need to spam blast finishers and such but I normally run through the think of it with the frontline then peel off to go hit some unsuspecting ele. Plus if I find the enemy commander I target him like a kitten and take all his boons! Chop the head off the snake.

AydenStar.4216:

3. No changes to sPvP trinkets and condition mechanics force all professions into cookie cutter AoE condition spamming builds ?

Play a warrior, guardian, ele with good coniditon removal, GG.

AydenStar.4216:

4. The wak-a-mole Profession revamps to Nercos, Warriors, Thieves when professions like the Elementalist, Ranger and Engineer still have mechanic and bugs issues from Beta that not been fixed.

Maybe that’s cause eles, rangers, and engies have at one time or another (sometimes multiple times over) been incredibly OP and simply needed to be slightly toned down and necros, warriors, and thieves have always in the past been the very bottom tier of sPvP classes that severely needed some buffing to bring them up to par.

If you think a little about WvW you fin that only problem in WvW is skill lag.
Zergfest is not because of rally or other. Only few proffesions are not because of they are the best. it is because of skill lag.
Warrios and guards have big passive survability and good auto attacl. But other profesion survability depends on other than autoattack and passive.
Mesmer depends on his clones. Ele on changing attunements, ranger on his pet, engi on his kits. But with skill lag you can use only auto attack.
As ele you cannot change attunements. As mesmer you cannot create phantasms and clones(not to mention null field).

You see when there is no skill lag, warriors are not so strong. My mesmer can kill warrior almost every time. But with skill lag when i can use only skill 1 and sometimes other skill i am doomed.

Engi is really good and you need to l2p as it require some skills. but when you cannot switch kits and you relly on autoattack you are doomed again.

So fixing skill lag means more profesion diversity in wvw.

Caramel Ham.4891:

stemare.2578:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

I most agree with your post, but that’s just false.
GW2 has NEVER been advertised as a PvP game by Arenanet.

False. Anet heavily advertised this game as being an esport. If they never did officially, it doesn’t matter. But in all interviews before the release of the game….they kept touting it as an esport.

They always said that both PvP and PvE would have been important in the same way, why speaking about esport would make GW2 a PvP focus game? o_O
Can’t a game have an excellent PvE and esport PvP too?
I’m not saying PvP is good as it is, far away from it, but in no way GW2 has been advertised as a PvP focus game.

maybe we are still beta testing sPvP?

papryk.6273:

maybe we are still beta testing sPvP?

Spvp is already an uncompleted beta. Look at gw1’s pvp, in game championships, gvg etc.

Crawford.4135:

Tibstrike.2974:

Mada.5319:

Thieves are so incredibly important in wvw. Guilds are very, very particular with who they want to play thief because it’s a high risk role which requires a lot of skill and battlefield awareness. It’s a tough class to play in wvw (actual wvw, not roaming) and only 2-3 are needed in a zerg. Good thieves are in high demand.

My guild is jonesing for a couple great thieves. It was my first lvl 80 but I’m honestly jot that great at it so I switched to guard which fits me so much better. The engis in my guildare loved as well as they can bring so many fields and knockdowns into the melee range as well as mess with the periphery. Mesmers are also of great use with boon stripping and now mantra builds. I dodon’t really understand where this guy gets his “only 4 professions needed” deal. Yes its heavy in those 4 but the other professions ha e excellent uses. Just don’t need as many.

That said, I am sad about the lack of viability rangers have in WvW. At least in zergish fights. A good ranger coyld be used as a periphery hunter alongside thieves I suppose. Some guilds are using them for that.

Heh, you’re the first and only guild I have ever known that wants “good thieves” because I have yet to really see any good ones in WvW. I have yet to see ANY thing pull off what I can to a 50-Man zerg in WvW and walk away from it. I tried teaching other thieves the exact same thing telling them “Hey, YOU ARE a huge benefit in a zerg, you are greatly needed, here’s what you do, ok?”

Why? Because I get sick of Thieves saying “Oh, we’re so useless in WvW zergs, we’re pointless”. No, they are pointless because they refuse to see how their class was designed and how to benefit it. “But if I can’t 1shot someone inside a Zerg, we’re useless!” <— More bad Thief talk I see in this game.

ArenaNet, hates, my, guts, with, a, very, huge, hatred, passion. They absolutely despise me. (I’m not kidding, I’m dead serious). But, that’s their problem, not mine – I just find it funny . . .

There is a time for a Dagger, there is a time for a Pistol, there is a time for a Bow and there is a time for a Sword. Thieves haven’t figured that out yet and stick to Dagger/X (or X/Dagger) and a Bow. That’s all you see: a Dagger/Bow Thief that will claim up and down that “it’s the best setup for WvW zergs” till their blue in the face.

“Oh but you should see this thief who only uses a Bow! HE IS GOOD!” Sorry, but no. No, and no.

I gave up trying to help Thieves a while back because they refuse to understand the class and accept they are one of the biggest benefits in a Zerg, more than any other class. So, I will just remain the only, and last come next years releases, thief that knew how to be effective in a zerg.

I have always said that common sense is either born in your, or not at all. It’s like watching American Idol: You can sing, or you can’t sing.

It’s up to the individual whether they want to realize the full potential of their class or not. Those that realize how much of an asset they are in an organized zerg will go out of their way to get into a wvw guild.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Running back is an unavoidable evil. Imagine if you can just WP right next to the enemy garrison you’re trying to siege, the fight would never get anywhere as the two sides just constantly respawn next to each other.

Yes, I understand that if you had so many traveling options it would be people porting right next to the next objective; but you can have some balance. In WvW WPs are as far as they can possibly be (except for the owner of the borderland which is still far from the action). The maps has so many highlands and fallings that even if the map distance is not that far, running to the action takes forever… if only we had warmounts (only for wvw) or something for this maps to fast travel, but we have to run very long distances.

If you don’t believe this is a problem here,… see how many players equip skills for speed in WvW instead of skills to either kill more or die less. Yes logistics at war is important, but we are trying to have fun in our limited time of playing (us, adults) and wasting 10-15 minutes run for 5 seconds of zerg vs zergs is a low.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Zergs being unorganised or organised is completely up to the player (or the commanders of each side). You got good commanders co-ordinates different teams to perform different roles across the map, and bad commanders who does the complete opposite.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Not every single form of mass PvP requires tanks or body-blocking. The’re plenty of other mechanics to use.

(placed this 2 together to answer as the same topic)

Even the best commanders look like a bunch of 5 year old kids playing futbol or football (or soccer for people in US). Ever seen them? they all go after the ball. Since the game has no real roles associated to players (not for class, not for builds…) AND there is no way to organize raids and groups,… even the best commanders lack the tools to really organize armies. The best they can do is keep them close together and use weird things like hidding an army in a thief tent, or using mesmer portals…. those are not really war strategies but clever things used at the moment. Where is the “heavies at front, melee dps flank them, ranged to the top, support in the middle?” There is no such a thing.

Other games had it and it was great.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Also, I don’t know about you, even in UW, one of the worse servers in the silver league, I see armies of people in WvW most of the time.

You will always see people. But tech limitations set the players quota for the maps too low and even when the servers are full there is only room for 1 or 2 zergs. You won’t see many simultaneous combats and most of the time what you see is zergs running in circles avoiding each other until they clash, resolve the battle in secs, and keep avoiding each other taking empty camps.

The sooner they stop catering for the Low population e sports crowd and think about the gw1 vets crowd the better imo , Then when they come back to gvg and play other spvp modes the game will be much better and then e sports might take off . Atm spvp is in a real bad place , broken leaderboards and queues , and boredom is killin It ….

Sirendor.1394:

Arrow.3856:

Assyrian.4827:

Drkxamas.6359:

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

+4

+5

+6 o-O

+7

I only read the posts on the first half of the first page, but most of the ones talking about WvW are so out of touch with reality that they sound like they’ve never even played it, especially the OP. If you’re looking for evenly matched fights in a smaller environment without NPCs or structures in your way, I’ve got good news for you: that already exists, and it’s called sPvP.

yeah balance in wvw is an abkittene joke. all a mesmer is needed for is veil, veil and veil again and then tw and maybe a pull or two. noone asks for rangers or wants them,no engis and thieves are only good to gank straggelers. most important ones
1 warrior
2 necro/guardian
3 ele

thats all u need and then maybe 1 mesmer to veil them. now as a mesmer u have nowhere near enough stability to survive in a zerg. u are squishy and there is barely any viable zergs builds. they all feel likerandomly puzzled together to somewhat accomplish something that is sowhat useful to deal dmg in zergs. te only 2 real zerg builds were immortal mesmer and glamour builds and anet destroyed those.

now there is a rumor of a new heal that removes apparently all conditions that mesmers can inflict at once soe another kick in the groud ad another build gone that somewhat dealt a little dmg. same with rangers, they finally had their pets boosted and due to spvp it got nerfed again.
meanwhile warriors are godmode and the new skill will make them even more unkillable. if anet introduces a skill like the one the rumor is about, then please redesign the entire mesmer class as we are all about confusion and clones and phantasms (and torment was really good). clones die in 1 second or dont even appear, the permablind prevents phantasms and phantasms die pretty fast too. so gg

Hule.8794:

If you think a little about WvW you fin that only problem in WvW is skill lag.
Zergfest is not because of rally or other. Only few proffesions are not because of they are the best. it is because of skill lag.
Warrios and guards have big passive survability and good auto attacl. But other profesion survability depends on other than autoattack and passive.
Mesmer depends on his clones. Ele on changing attunements, ranger on his pet, engi on his kits. But with skill lag you can use only auto attack.
As ele you cannot change attunements. As mesmer you cannot create phantasms and clones(not to mention null field).

You see when there is no skill lag, warriors are not so strong. My mesmer can kill warrior almost every time. But with skill lag when i can use only skill 1 and sometimes other skill i am doomed.

Engi is really good and you need to l2p as it require some skills. but when you cannot switch kits and you relly on autoattack you are doomed again.

So fixing skill lag means more profesion diversity in wvw.

and no its not the skill lag . i fight in massive zergs everyday and skillag is not the issue. warriors and guardians are in a better spot perios. eles and necros are great light armor classes for wv. mesmer clones?!? they die in an instance. mesmers have a massive lack of aoe in wvw. spvp…we are awesome, 1v1…we are a pain to fight, small encounters… we are strong….zergs… we are terrible due to no clones, cant go phantasm its too glassy and alsonoe viable aoe, terrible stability, no passive condi removal, permastuns, long cooldows, light armor should not be forced t go upclose to kill.

AydenStar.4216:

My beef with GW2 is the profession development favoritism and the slow turtle speed of balance changes proves that this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

The problem is with the balance methodology used in this game. Here is what happens…

1. ANET sees something they do not like with the current meta
2. ANET takes their best guess as how to revamp skills to change that meta
3. It becomes obvious something was overbuffed or nerfed too much.

Now this is where it gets interesting. Most people would say, ok let’s scale back the buff or nerf we just made. ANET does not think like that. Instead they start back over at #1 and the cycle continues.

The end result is a game that will never be balanced.

The thing I think is hurting ANET and will hurt them even further if it ever changes:

Right now (we have all seen the comments from devs) the stance is something like: “Forum people will complain, but they are only a small portion of the player base”.

Which translates to: People will always gripe about something, if they were that unhappy they and others would be leaving the game. We are not seeing people leave the game, so it must not be that bad and might even be good.

The problem with that line of thinking: The only reason (I truly believe) we have not seen more people leave (and there have been a ton leave no matter what anyone says), is because there is no other game that currently offers RvR or WvW. What I am saying is that just because there is no competition does not mean that things are “good”.

If another company or game for that matter comes along and does it even slightly better, people will leave. Lack of subscription and at least having a semi-operable WvW is what keeps a lot of folks here.

TL/DR: The main reason why people have stuck with this game so long is there is no other WvW-type games out right now, so it is better to have “something” better than “nothing”…But just being “something” is not really a good thing to strive for.

AydenStar.4216:

3. We hunger for PvP not standing in towers or in front of them dancing around arrowcart fire most of the time in WvW.

You could try roaming…

And we’re back into general discussion.

GW2 pvp needs factions. There isn’t any meaningful conflict. If GW2 had factions, there would be rivalries and pride. Imagine the medieval days without banners and realms, and kingdoms, etc. There was a sense of patritotism, and it’s like this in most MMOs.

Another major reason is the lack onf incentive and rewards.

GW2 needs an alliance feature added to guilds, think roll-up.
GW2 needs a reason to claim something, keeps, castles, camps.
GW2 needs to train the guards to alert guilds/alliance members of attacks to claimer.
GW2 needs rewards for entering WvW (outside of season trial and error)
A. Get more exp for pve/tasks near claimed keep/tower/castle
B. Get more exp for pve/tasks protecting yaks
C. Get more Tx mats for pve/tasks in WvW (anywhere)
GW2 needs to reward players roaming bloodlust loops (this takes time people)
GW2 needs to remove ascended gear from WvW until Q4
A. Why removed? PvP and not everyone has, too many weapon combo’s
B. Possible G v. G EB/JP fight clubs

Terok.7315:

AydenStar.4216:

3. We hunger for PvP not standing in towers or in front of them dancing around arrowcart fire most of the time in WvW.

You could try roaming…

Not everyone buys or understands the roaming process. It is easier, and safer, to run in zergs.

There is also a reason to roam (blood lust loop comes to mind) but there is no reward in it. Going back to the zerg taking towers, keeps, and other drive by kills finishes dailies faster and yields loot bags. Taking bloodlust does nothing outside out side of giving your side the bonus…if you spend your play time doing that everyone else gets the loot, you get nothing outside satisfaction of playing how you want. That isn’t bad, just showing a flow in the process which frustrates me.

I love to roam but probably because I came from DaOC…

2. WvW large group fights on a competitive level only involve 4 professions: Hammer Warriors, Hammer/Condition Removing Guardians, Staff Elementalists and Staff/Plauge Necros. A mesmer or two are need for Veil but that is it. No one welcomes Rangers, Thieves, Engineers or even up-levels in competitive WvW play yet I bet up-levels of the 4 main WvW professions would be more welcome than Ranger, Thieves and Engineers.

This paragraph made me lol cause just yesterday I came across a 10-15 man group in wvw that consisited of one Ele for water fields and the rest hammer warrior/guards. Maybe the devs haven’t ran in to this to see that maybe Hammer cc needs toned down?

There is not enough stun breakers/stability in the game for encounters like that. It is so broken to not have a cool down on stuns your character can suffer in a certain time span but maybe that is just imo.

sPvP in WoW would basically be their arenas In WoW you can take the rewards you earn in them and use them in the other parts of the game. Giving you incentive to actually want to do Arena. Basically you can play how you want to play……….

ZudetGambeous.9573:

With only 1 game mode and lack of significant roles PvP will never flourish. Though without expansions I don’t really see PvE flourishing either. I think a lack of clear direction is what the game suffers from most.

This covers it for me.

Shrug.

I really enjoy sPvP and WvW. I don’t really play for rewards, I play to win matches. It’s just a hobby that I find enjoyable, don’t get why it has to be anything more than that.

Umut.5471:

papryk.6273:

maybe we are still beta testing sPvP?

Spvp is already an uncompleted beta. Look at gw1’s pvp, in game championships, gvg etc.

my post was sarcastic but yeah I know how is GW1 PvP… i dedicated 2 years of my life to HA because it was so awesome.

Liquid Swords.1740:

This paragraph made me lol cause just yesterday I came across a 10-15 man group in wvw that consisited of one Ele for water fields and the rest hammer warrior/guards. Maybe the devs haven’t ran in to this to see that maybe Hammer cc needs toned down?

actually if they took the time to gather 15 warriors and 1 ele for heals, keep it tight and play on sync; they deserve to win.

What did you do to counter that? Did you expect your regular zerg strategy to work on something that was probably design to destroy zergs? Do you want ANet to solve your problems? I mean, hammer CC builds are annoying and a pain in the kitten but it is not ANet’s job to resolve it; it’s ours as thinking players.

Brando.1374:

pdg.8462:

I’ve played this game since release. I tried WvW for the first time a few days ago. I was appalled. It should be called ZvZ. Two massive groups of players running around and when they meet, unbelievable lag and prayers that my AOE spells go off before I die. Needless to say I won’t be going back to it.

And yes, class balance is the one thing I am actually hoping for and have been hoping for since day 1.

^^
this is why Most WvW open field fighters or GvG guilds want a debuff for zergs (zergs might be defined as 30+ in the same area)

when you meet a group of 10-20 there is no skill lag and the fight is usually very very fun

I like zerg warfare, one of the things I like most about WvW, I never cared much for GvG, hated it when they did it in WvW, always thought they should be doing it in SPvP.
I got into WvW when I was making my first legendary, and I got addicted, PvE in this game was boring and thats why I was making a legendary, and I have been in WvW ever since, but lag and skill lag are not just around zergs, it happens everywhere, I have experienced it in a zone where I thought no one was, all by myself cept maybe 10-20 people leveling and doing that map, it’s not just WvW it’s the servers that Anet is using and it affects the map as a whole. I know that it can be much worse in WvW but I have experinced skill lag on a lowbie char in a low level area and known exactly what it was cause it has happened to me many times so please, don’t blame it all on zerg vs zerg warfare.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

If you’re looking for evenly matched fights in a smaller environment without NPCs or structures in your way, I’ve got good news for you: that already exists, and it’s called sPvP.

except for the fact that sPVP sucks, and WVW small man roaming is far more fun and challenging.