Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

So what you’re saying here is that it’s wrong for companies to put stuff in the best light possible (ie advertise) and that Anet isn’t trying to live up to its hype or take professional pride.

Imagine that you have 300 people working on a product. Do you think all 300 people are going to be exactly the same. You don’t think some of the people at Anet have pride in their work?

Anet isn’t a person…it’s a company. You can’t put 300 employees into one basket. You can’t even say they have no pride in their game or they’re not trying to live up to the hype.

What they aren’t doing is living up to what you think the game should be. That has nothing to do with them living up to what they think the game should be. And with 300 employees on board, what makes you think that all of them have the exact same ideas of what the game should be.

Take ascended gear, which was introduced into the game. Was everyone at Anet in favor of it? Does anyone know? Was anyone there at meeting to know if any arguing happened? Does anyone know what was discussed.

There’s a great danger in painting all Anet employees with one brush or generalizing about Anet employees in general, much less trying to kitten how much pride they have in what they do.

Even in a much smaller business that I ran, I had tremendous pride in what I did, but I had to hire a specific number of people, with a specific budget. On any given day, depending who was working, different people might make it look as if that place had no pride, because one person did the wrong thing, or made the wrong decision of the wrong thing happened.

The more people you need to employee the more likely it is that you’ll need to employee people who are less qualified than the original people. It’s like customer service. If you need 1000 people, you’re not like to get 1000 first class technicians. If you judge a company based on the first guy you get on the phone, you’re going to be disappointed.

I think you make a whole lot of assumptions about Anet that are based on your specific prejudiced on how you want the game to be.

lol I said no such thing. Nice try, though

Tachenon.5270:

Gehenna.3625:

That they sold 3.5 million copies is amazing. They were also lucky I think, because the game came out just before all those other MMOs introduced f2p to their games. But it’s ok to be lucky. No matter how anyone turns it, selling that many copies is a great feat. In fact that’s probable the only number that I will support. It’s a very clear number that can’t really be misinterpreted.

Guild Wars 2’s initial blush of success was pretty much guaranteed by the folks who played Guild Wars. I’d say a fair portion of those 3.5 million copies were snatched up by manifestly misguided Guild Wars players, who were expecting more of what they loved about Guild Wars in Guild Wars 2 than what they actually got. How many are still here?

It would be interesting to see the ratio of former Guild Wars players to players who didn’t play Guild Wars among the currently active players. It would also be interesting to know which of these groups is most happy with the current state of the game.

Standard Disclaimers ~

‘Fair portion’ does not mean ‘all’.
In my opinion, this post presents my opinion.
‘Interesting’ in this context means ‘interesting’.

Oh trust me, I am one of those “manifestly deceived” people. Still, selling 3.5 million copies is still an amazing amount. Of course the vast majority of them were sold in the beginning and not so much in 2013.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

So what you’re saying here is that it’s wrong for companies to put stuff in the best light possible (ie advertise) and that Anet isn’t trying to live up to its hype or take professional pride.

Imagine that you have 300 people working on a product. Do you think all 300 people are going to be exactly the same. You don’t think some of the people at Anet have pride in their work?

Anet isn’t a person…it’s a company. You can’t put 300 employees into one basket. You can’t even say they have no pride in their game or they’re not trying to live up to the hype.

What they aren’t doing is living up to what you think the game should be. That has nothing to do with them living up to what they think the game should be. And with 300 employees on board, what makes you think that all of them have the exact same ideas of what the game should be.

Take ascended gear, which was introduced into the game. Was everyone at Anet in favor of it? Does anyone know? Was anyone there at meeting to know if any arguing happened? Does anyone know what was discussed.

There’s a great danger in painting all Anet employees with one brush or generalizing about Anet employees in general, much less trying to kitten how much pride they have in what they do.

Even in a much smaller business that I ran, I had tremendous pride in what I did, but I had to hire a specific number of people, with a specific budget. On any given day, depending who was working, different people might make it look as if that place had no pride, because one person did the wrong thing, or made the wrong decision of the wrong thing happened.

The more people you need to employee the more likely it is that you’ll need to employee people who are less qualified than the original people. It’s like customer service. If you need 1000 people, you’re not like to get 1000 first class technicians. If you judge a company based on the first guy you get on the phone, you’re going to be disappointed.

I think you make a whole lot of assumptions about Anet that are based on your specific prejudiced on how you want the game to be.

lol I said no such thing. Nice try, though

It’s certainly implied. Read what you wrote again and look at it…particularly this:

“2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.”

You’re at least implying Anet isn’t doing this. If not, you had no reason to post what you did. In doing so you are personifying the company, because each individual at the company might or might not have pride. The company itself can’t have pride, because it has no consciousness.

phiplayer.2865:

I find this thread funny with all the haters trying to mock the game as hard as they can.

And i find this funny too, because of people (mostly haters) aske anet to show off their big numbers. And now, when we got the answer, people:
-don’t believe them,
-think those are advertisments,
- that they are too small,
- that even with alive, healthy, think that community of this game is dead.

You know what i’m going to tell you ?

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

I dont think any of us “haters” believe that… I don’t deny the stats, whether or not it was a big AD I don’t care, the stats are “small”..wut?, and no one said the game is dead. I don’t know how you came to these assumptions. And Im not a hater of the game. Otherwise, I wouldn’t play it. I just wouldn’t bother with it. It is because I am so passionate about the game and so passionate about its potential that I still fight the good fight.

What we “haters” are saying is that these promos, these interviews and blogs, and articles…they all prop up the current state of GW2 saying that LS is a huge monumental success when most people will say they would rather the game go in a different direction. From the forums to in game chat, most people I talk to and most people I hear talking about are not huge fans of the LS. Its barely an opinion anymore.

You might have the handful of people saying “Im enjoying the LS”. Sure, and they honestly might be…against all odds. Thats their business and good for them! I wonder how being another number in a zerg for monetary reasons(loot/cash/mats/karma) is “fun”. I want to know how having one or two sentences to tell the story(aside from the last month) is “fun” and good story telling. I want to know how the living story changed tyria. We voted ellen..ok. Who cares? Where is she now? And what is she doing, besides dropping WP costs. We stopped some loony sylvari in Southsun. Ok, but who cares? Where is he now? What has happened to southsun since? Nothing. So some zephrytes that lived in skyships came down to pay us a visit. Great! Who are they again? How are they contributing to the game world?

I’d love to hear Mike O’Briens answer to any of these, or simply answer: What impact has any of these LS events had on the core of Guild Wars 2. Detail it for us please, I’d love to hear this.

Avatara.1042:

‘More than the Czech Republic voted in their last Presidential Election!’

I really hope no one there voted hundreds or thousands of times, or sold their votes…

That was actually my thought too..that number is so skewed. You could have had 500 tickets..500 for one person. Where as any real election, a person casts only one vote.

So of course there were more votes.

You are all too clever to play this game.

cesmode.4257:

phiplayer.2865:

I find this thread funny with all the haters trying to mock the game as hard as they can.

And i find this funny too, because of people (mostly haters) aske anet to show off their big numbers. And now, when we got the answer, people:
-don’t believe them,
-think those are advertisments,
- that they are too small,
- that even with alive, healthy, think that community of this game is dead.

You know what i’m going to tell you ?

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

I dont think any of us “haters” believe that… I don’t deny the stats, whether or not it was a big AD I don’t care, the stats are “small”..wut?, and no one said the game is dead. I don’t know how you came to these assumptions. And Im not a hater of the game. Otherwise, I wouldn’t play it. I just wouldn’t bother with it. It is because I am so passionate about the game and so passionate about its potential that I still fight the good fight.

What we “haters” are saying is that these promos, these interviews and blogs, and articles…they all prop up the current state of GW2 saying that LS is a huge monumental success when most people will say they would rather the game go in a different direction. From the forums to in game chat, most people I talk to and most people I hear talking about are not huge fans of the LS. Its barely an opinion anymore.

You might have the handful of people saying “Im enjoying the LS”. Sure, and they honestly might be…against all odds. Thats their business and good for them! I wonder how being another number in a zerg for monetary reasons(loot/cash/mats/karma) is “fun”. I want to know how having one or two sentences to tell the story(aside from the last month) is “fun” and good story telling. I want to know how the living story changed tyria. We voted ellen..ok. Who cares? Where is she now? And what is she doing, besides dropping WP costs. We stopped some loony sylvari in Southsun. Ok, but who cares? Where is he now? What has happened to southsun since? Nothing. So some zephrytes that lived in skyships came down to pay us a visit. Great! Who are they again? How are they contributing to the game world?

I’d love to hear Mike O’Briens answer to any of these, or simply answer: What impact has any of these LS events had on the core of Guild Wars 2. Detail it for us please, I’d love to hear this.

While you might not be saying the game is dead, plenty of people have. It’s not a long stretch to associate it with the haters (which I never felt you were one of anyway).

On the topic of story, I’m pretty sure most MMO players don’t give a rat’s kitten about stories. Most of them skip cut scenes. They’re not interested. I am, but I’ve always known I was the exception to the rule.

You make it sound as if the majority want story. The majority seem to want loot. I think it’s a very sad state, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

In a perfect world Anet would be able to provide the story and experience I want, and the types of things others want…but it’s not a perfect world.

But I do think a lot of people do like the living story. Anet doesn’t go by what you say or what I say or what they forum says. They look at the number of people logging in and playing content.

Really the only way to vote is to not log in and not play content.

It seems to me plenty of people are coming in for these 2 week updates and doing the content. As long as that keeps happening, the game will be successful, no matter how many people say they don’t like it.

Hold on Vayne, let me strap on my Mithril Armor and my Orc glow blade…

I’ll comment when I read

Edit: Ok I’ve read.

Thank you for not associating me with haters. I believe in the game, but Im very critical of it.

I agree most MMO players don’t care about story. So why would a developer try to thrust this down our throats? Even if it coincides with “content”, if they want to call it that…they are wasting time and resources on story. The fact that most people want loot, well..that goes alll the way back to November 15. Prior to November 15 people were complaining that theres no endgame, nothing to do, etc. No character progression, item progression, etc. Whether or not if the reason Anet gave us for ascended gear is true, Ascended gear(and thus most every other decision made after) is based around character progression in some form. Whether it is statistical or cosmetic. And if thats true, then playing the game for intrinsic fun is just a bitter memory. True, acquiring crap is fun. But PLAYING the game to have fun…where has that gone? Guild Wars 2 was an amazing game for a few months, until that patch. Ever since, it seems that the direction is more toward reward reward reward reward reward without any attention into what we as players consider “fun”.

And I think that people log in for the 2 week updates because theres nothing else to do. Its more carrots to chase after. I personally don’t like LS. But like all the lemmings and drones, I’ll log in, get my AP, get my minis, get my loot, and log out. Its not that I enjoy any of it really. There are parts that make me stop and say “Yeah, now this is good stuff..liadri and the gauntlet!”. But the majority..just a time killer. Time filler. They are concerned with quantity over quality. Their numbers show our activity drops after 2 weeks, so they push out more (quantity) rather than quality. We can debate quality, but even compared to personal story(which many feel is weak), Living Story pales in comparison. Orr is abandoned during these events. And glitches/exploits/zergs ensue. I don’t call any of this quality.

I log into do everything I listed above… until the next game or two on the horizon…sadly. Unless GW2 takes a turn back to the months of August, September, October.

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

So what you’re saying here is that it’s wrong for companies to put stuff in the best light possible (ie advertise) and that Anet isn’t trying to live up to its hype or take professional pride.

Imagine that you have 300 people working on a product. Do you think all 300 people are going to be exactly the same. You don’t think some of the people at Anet have pride in their work?

Anet isn’t a person…it’s a company. You can’t put 300 employees into one basket. You can’t even say they have no pride in their game or they’re not trying to live up to the hype.

What they aren’t doing is living up to what you think the game should be. That has nothing to do with them living up to what they think the game should be. And with 300 employees on board, what makes you think that all of them have the exact same ideas of what the game should be.

Take ascended gear, which was introduced into the game. Was everyone at Anet in favor of it? Does anyone know? Was anyone there at meeting to know if any arguing happened? Does anyone know what was discussed.

There’s a great danger in painting all Anet employees with one brush or generalizing about Anet employees in general, much less trying to kitten how much pride they have in what they do.

Even in a much smaller business that I ran, I had tremendous pride in what I did, but I had to hire a specific number of people, with a specific budget. On any given day, depending who was working, different people might make it look as if that place had no pride, because one person did the wrong thing, or made the wrong decision of the wrong thing happened.

The more people you need to employee the more likely it is that you’ll need to employee people who are less qualified than the original people. It’s like customer service. If you need 1000 people, you’re not like to get 1000 first class technicians. If you judge a company based on the first guy you get on the phone, you’re going to be disappointed.

I think you make a whole lot of assumptions about Anet that are based on your specific prejudiced on how you want the game to be.

lol I said no such thing. Nice try, though

It’s certainly implied. Read what you wrote again and look at it…particularly this:

“2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.”

You’re at least implying Anet isn’t doing this. If not, you had no reason to post what you did. In doing so you are personifying the company, because each individual at the company might or might not have pride. The company itself can’t have pride, because it has no consciousness.

I know what I said, and what I implied. My point was, you put some words in my mouth.

I also thought the Living Story mention was ill-conceived. They may be back to their roots around the LS but it’s not what they delivered initially and continue to deliver. What we’ve had is a temporary Living World that’s come and gone in ~1 month increments. The LW we have seen is not an evolving world but a cataclysmic one the evolves in fits and starts and then disappears. Colin’s latest blog post seems to acknowledge the error here. He has promised to turn this around, to get back to their roots, but it was only after a long hammering by players. So, Mikes touting of the LS/LW just doesn’t sit right.

And, as long as Anet can say “We’re now updating Guild Wars 2 about five times as often as the typical MMO.” as a positive then they really don’t understand the problem. All the problems with the current state of GW2 can be chalked up to a development cycle that does not allow them to think through the evolution of a living world. The short term nature of their SDLC favors quick and dirty temporary fluff over deep story and a living, breathing world. As long as they see rapid delivery of content as a value proposition, I will, at least, know that they have not really had their moment of understanding. Until they understand their problem, players won’t receive the promise of a living world.

Erasculio.2914:

Elbegast.6970:

After reading that article, I am angry, disappointed, confused and very uneasy about the future direction of the game. I probably shouldn’t have read that article. I would be much happier right now.

Oh, it gets better. Read this:

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32955&storypage=1

See my signature for a preview.

After reading that article, I’m not sure that Mike O’Brien is playing the same game that I am. Everything he describes is completely foreign to my gaming experience with Guild Wars 2. It feels as if he is completely disregarding all negative feedback and is trying to put a media spin on the game in order to sugar-coat the current ‘Living World/Story’ model.

“The Living World isn’t changing anything or adding anything of permanence to the game. The game feels the same as the day it shipped” – The Player

“Oh it’s added plenty of permanent things. It’s added so much that players are asking us to slow down content releases. Players don’t say that about other mmos. Trust me, the game is super awesome and ever changing. You just didn’t notice all of the changes because you are playing rather than thinking. You just keep on mashing buttons and let us do the thinking, okay?” – Mike O’Brien (not his words, mind you. Just my personal interpretation of the above interview)

Those interviews just feel rather condescending to the players. It’s as if ArenaNet is telling us that we aren’t enjoying the game because we are playing it wrong.

Elbegast.6970:

Erasculio.2914:

Elbegast.6970:

After reading that article, I am angry, disappointed, confused and very uneasy about the future direction of the game. I probably shouldn’t have read that article. I would be much happier right now.

Oh, it gets better. Read this:

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32955&storypage=1

See my signature for a preview.

After reading that article, I’m not sure that Mike O’Brien is playing the same game that I am.

I’m wondering the same thing.

A direct quote:

“The philosophy is we came out with a game that is not about continual vertical progression and gearing up for one raid after the next. Our game is about going out into the world and taking on challenges together. We even have the inverse motivation against having that continual gear grind as it would separate players so they wouldn’t be able to do these things together. If there is a dragon attacking in the open world, with a vertical progression would it end up being too easy for some people and too hard for others?
Our big focus then is to give people more horizontal progression, different things to accomplish and rewards from accomplishing those things.” (italics are mine for emphasis).

What does that even mean? Inverse motivation against having that continual gear grind? This game is buried in gear grind, and if you don’t grind it, you’re less powerful than the people who do. How is that not vertical progression?

This whole interview looks like a lot more of the same hype, smoke, and mirrors to me. 12 months after launch, same old same old.

/sigh

There goes the last of my hope for this game…

cesmode.4257:

Hold on Vayne, let me strap on my Mithril Armor and my Orc glow blade…

I’ll comment when I read

Edit: Ok I’ve read.

Thank you for not associating me with haters. I believe in the game, but Im very critical of it.

I agree most MMO players don’t care about story. So why would a developer try to thrust this down our throats? Even if it coincides with “content”, if they want to call it that…they are wasting time and resources on story. The fact that most people want loot, well..that goes alll the way back to November 15. Prior to November 15 people were complaining that theres no endgame, nothing to do, etc. No character progression, item progression, etc. Whether or not if the reason Anet gave us for ascended gear is true, Ascended gear(and thus most every other decision made after) is based around character progression in some form. Whether it is statistical or cosmetic. And if thats true, then playing the game for intrinsic fun is just a bitter memory. True, acquiring crap is fun. But PLAYING the game to have fun…where has that gone? Guild Wars 2 was an amazing game for a few months, until that patch. Ever since, it seems that the direction is more toward reward reward reward reward reward without any attention into what we as players consider “fun”.

And I think that people log in for the 2 week updates because theres nothing else to do. Its more carrots to chase after.

First of all, I don’t think people log into the game just to chase carrots, unless they want to or are into it. There really are other games out there if people want to play them.

The fact is, from my point of view, the entire MMO genre his horrid. Absolutely horrid. I have totally grindy games, or pay to win games, or games that rob you blind. Those are pretty much my options.

Where Guild Wars 2 went wrong for me is the lack of immersion. I can’t really take the world seriously. Fortunately for me, I don’t need to take the world seriously to have fun, but it definitely makes me less attached to my characters. It’s not the game I’d have liked. It is the game it is.

And for what it is, it’s absolutely fine for me.

But if people weren’t enjoying it, most at least probably wouldn’t log in. And since I’m on overflows for a week or so after each update, I have to assume people are logging in.

If they’re logging in and not enjoying it…that’s just sad. I’m at least enjoying myself.

Gehenna.3625:

marnick.4305:

Everyone knew this was advertisement but let’s be clear. If you expected anything different from advertisements, you are terribly naive.

To be honest, I don’t remember any of the games I played making quite such a numbers display as Anet have done here in preparation of their China offensive.

Sure, companies may at times indicate sales numbers but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of the games I played before make such a hoopla about it.

Maybe you have different experiences.

Personally when I see numbers I want facts and context so I can weigh the value of these numbers. Advertising like this obviously doesn’t give you that context.

People are talking. Obviously it works.

The lack of context can be easily interpreted by anyone with a brain.

Vayne.8563:

But if people weren’t enjoying it, most at least probably wouldn’t log in. And since I’m on overflows for a week or so after each update, I have to assume people are logging in.

If they’re logging in and not enjoying it…that’s just sad. I’m at least enjoying myself.

Sort of off-topic, but I do know people who don’t like it, get upset about X, Y, or Z, yet still log on every day. I hear them complaining on our community TeamSpeak server (where a lot of us play various games). Kind of blows my mind, too. I have asked: “why do you play this if you don’t like it?” I’ve never got an answer that makes sense. Glad we agree on something btw…

Ok back on topic – sorry bout that little flight of fancy

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

But if people weren’t enjoying it, most at least probably wouldn’t log in. And since I’m on overflows for a week or so after each update, I have to assume people are logging in.

If they’re logging in and not enjoying it…that’s just sad. I’m at least enjoying myself.

Sort of off-topic, but I do know people who don’t like it, get upset about X, Y, or Z, yet still log on every day. I hear them complaining on our community TeamSpeak server (where a lot of us play various games). Kind of blows my mind, too. I have asked: “why do you play this if you don’t like it?” I’ve never got an answer that makes sense. Glad we agree on something btw…

Ok back on topic – sorry bout that little flight of fancy

Yes, I’ve seen the same thing about WoW. Both my kids playing it, and complaining about it…but complaining about something doesn’t mean you don’t like it, or at least that you’re not getting something out of it.

Vayne.8563:

First of all, I don’t think people log into the game just to chase carrots, unless they want to or are into it. There really are other games out there if people want to play them.

You’re forgetting the sunk-cost fallacy. I’m not enjoying the game, I still log in. I have sunk money and time into this game, despite my instincts telling me to stop supporting their model. It’s rough when you’ve invested time into something you wanted to succeed, yet watch it stunningly morph into something that contrasts heavily with your vision for it. It makes it tougher to leave as you hold out hope. I loved the idea behind Guild Wars 2 when I heard their manifesto and thought many of their dynamic events supported that vision, not completely, but enough that it looked like a system they could really build upon to fulfill their goals of a living world with consequences that was outlined in the manifesto. However, after playing the more recent dynamic events added to the game and hearing their thoughts on dynamic events in general ¹, I’m not so sure they have that vision anymore:.

¹ -

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

marnick.4305:

People are talking. Obviously it works.

I never said it didn’t.

marnick.4305:

The lack of context can be easily interpreted by anyone with a brain.

Perhaps you overestimate mankind here. If as you say this type of marketing works, then clearly the opposite is happening.

I don’t think most people see the context and I don’t think just having a brain is enough. This is why marketing works, because people are easy to trick. It happens to the best of us really.

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

But if people weren’t enjoying it, most at least probably wouldn’t log in. And since I’m on overflows for a week or so after each update, I have to assume people are logging in.

If they’re logging in and not enjoying it…that’s just sad. I’m at least enjoying myself.

Sort of off-topic, but I do know people who don’t like it, get upset about X, Y, or Z, yet still log on every day. I hear them complaining on our community TeamSpeak server (where a lot of us play various games). Kind of blows my mind, too. I have asked: “why do you play this if you don’t like it?” I’ve never got an answer that makes sense. Glad we agree on something btw…

Ok back on topic – sorry bout that little flight of fancy

Yes, I’ve seen the same thing about WoW. Both my kids playing it, and complaining about it…but complaining about something doesn’t mean you don’t like it, or at least that you’re not getting something out of it.

I guess I’m weird. When I realize that I’m more annoyed than happy with an activity, I generally stop doing it. In this case, I’ve stopped doing it, and am throwing my opinion all over the forums in the hopes that ArenaNet does something, because I want to like it. But that’s looking more and more like a pipe-dream.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

But if people weren’t enjoying it, most at least probably wouldn’t log in. And since I’m on overflows for a week or so after each update, I have to assume people are logging in.

If they’re logging in and not enjoying it…that’s just sad. I’m at least enjoying myself.

Sort of off-topic, but I do know people who don’t like it, get upset about X, Y, or Z, yet still log on every day. I hear them complaining on our community TeamSpeak server (where a lot of us play various games). Kind of blows my mind, too. I have asked: “why do you play this if you don’t like it?” I’ve never got an answer that makes sense. Glad we agree on something btw…

Ok back on topic – sorry bout that little flight of fancy

Yes, I’ve seen the same thing about WoW. Both my kids playing it, and complaining about it…but complaining about something doesn’t mean you don’t like it, or at least that you’re not getting something out of it.

I guess I’m weird. When I realize that I’m more annoyed than happy with an activity, I generally stop doing it. In this case, I’ve stopped doing it, and am throwing my opinion all over the forums in the hopes that ArenaNet does something, because I want to like it. But that’s looking more and more like a pipe-dream.

The problem is, if they change this game so you like it, I’d probably not like it. lol

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, if they change this game so you like it, I’d probably not like it. lol

Hahaha, you are so right in that. In that sense it is true that a game developer can never win.

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, if they change this game so you like it, I’d probably not like it. lol

I strongly suspect that there are ways this game could be improved for both of us. And a few other folks around here, too.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, if they change this game so you like it, I’d probably not like it. lol

I strongly suspect that there are ways this game could be improved for both of us. And a few other folks around here, too.

Only if Vayne is made a mini for the next LS arc
KIDDING!!!

Robert Hrouda leaving and comment about the last content he made suggests to me not all of ANet is seeing eye to eye about this Living Story either. We can only hope the opposing force eventually wins and we see quality content (and not simply lose them to other companies).

Erasculio.2914:

It’s also interesting to see how the concept of the personal storyline has been thrown through the window after release.

It wasn’t thrown out the window, it was taken behind the shed and given the Old Yeller treatment.

Vayne.8563:

While you might not be saying the game is dead, plenty of people have. It’s not a long stretch to associate it with the haters (which I never felt you were one of anyway).

On the topic of story, I’m pretty sure most MMO players don’t give a rat’s kitten about stories. Most of them skip cut scenes. They’re not interested. I am, but I’ve always known I was the exception to the rule.

You make it sound as if the majority want story. The majority seem to want loot. I think it’s a very sad state, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

In a perfect world Anet would be able to provide the story and experience I want, and the types of things others want…but it’s not a perfect world.

But I do think a lot of people do like the living story. Anet doesn’t go by what you say or what I say or what they forum says. They look at the number of people logging in and playing content.

Really the only way to vote is to not log in and not play content.

It seems to me plenty of people are coming in for these 2 week updates and doing the content. As long as that keeps happening, the game will be successful, no matter how many people say they don’t like it.

Hey Vayne I don’t know if you actually support the view that people here are “hating” (lol) but I’ll try to reply as if you were (do not take this personally).
People saying the game is dead are obviously wrong, but people who say the game might be very close to dying are not wrong at all, due to a lot of missed opportunities and extremely bad managing on Anets part.

We (by we I mean the forum posters) are not the only people in the game experiencing the issue of “why do we actually still play if it’s not fun?”. My guild is a very successful one in the game with 50+ people online daily out of 120-ish members. And yet the last weeks a lot of posts have popped up about “silence in guild chat due to farming”, “lack of fun/joking”, “nobody willing to help anymore”, ’nobody does anything else than farming anymore" and a lot more of similar topics.

This means the problem isn’t one that is experienced by a small share of the players, it means it is one experienced by many. ArenaNet is trying to cover that feeling by continuously adding new “content” (Living story is hardly that) which provides new farm/grind options and new cosmetic rewards, functioning as a stick and carrot.

I believe story isn’t completely essential to having fun, but it does take the stress away from money. The story does give rewards in the form of personal feel of achieving something, living yourself out and so on. Other elements in the game are able to deliver that feel, such as exploring a hard dungeon and succeeding, finding a chest at the end with some completely random loot (maybe something good, most probably garbage, but it still feels good!), or getting to the top of a hard jumping puzzle and seeing the world from the top… etc. Story background creates a context for this.

Right now Living Story is a kittentail with following ingredients:

• Farm Method
• Farm Reward
• Story

The story however is so weak that it barely conceals the fact that arenanet is just throwing a random item at you and asking you: play (=farm) for 1 week more and you can have it! People finally see this and ask themselves “why are we doing this?”, cause it’s quite obviously a trap to make you play the game. That’s why we are not haters, but people who are discussing an existing problem, which will possibly rob Anet of a large chunk of their playerbase (not completely unjustified).

marnick.4305:

Gehenna.3625:

marnick.4305:

Everyone knew this was advertisement but let’s be clear. If you expected anything different from advertisements, you are terribly naive.

To be honest, I don’t remember any of the games I played making quite such a numbers display as Anet have done here in preparation of their China offensive.

Sure, companies may at times indicate sales numbers but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of the games I played before make such a hoopla about it.

Maybe you have different experiences.

Personally when I see numbers I want facts and context so I can weigh the value of these numbers. Advertising like this obviously doesn’t give you that context.

People are talking. Obviously it works.

The lack of context can be easily interpreted by anyone with a brain.

People are pointing at the weak points. So no it doesn’t work. And it only shows that ArenaNet isn’t interested in making fair game, instead trying to get as many players on the boat, even if they lie to them outright.

There is a complete disconnect now between the developer hype and the actual reality. Mike highlights the importance of Dynamic Event content in bringing the world alive and their commitment to delivering an ever evolving world, when, in reality, there has been almost zero evolution of the game world. Temporary fluff content is not an evolution or expansion of the world. It’s a complete waste of the potential that this game could have and should have achieved in it’s first year.

The most apt summary of Year One is: Potential Squandered.

I don’t think the game is dying. Far from it. Lions arch is littered with people. And there are a lot of people across other areas.. But those areas ARE feeling a drain of players, being funneled into the LS events.

Is story the strong point of an MMO? No. Do I think if LS had a better story that I/anyone else would stop complaining? No. LS is an umbrella term for story, events.minigames, achievements, fluffy things, temp things. When I say LS sucks, I don’t mean the story(which does suck too). I mean, every patch with LS and every themed patch, as whole…has been bad in the eyes of many. Not just the disgruntled folks on this forum. Listen to map chat. People aren’t exactly saying “Wow this is really exciting, Ive never seen this in a game before”.

Traveller.7496:

Robert Hrouda leaving and comment about the last content he made suggests to me not all of ANet is seeing eye to eye about this Living Story either. We can only hope the opposing force eventually wins and we see quality content (and not simply lose them to other companies).

We can hope that. He didn’t seem very happy about the living story.

Fiontar.4695:

There is a complete disconnect now between the developer hype and the actual reality. Mike highlights the importance of Dynamic Event content in bringing the world alive and their commitment to delivering an ever evolving world, when, in reality, there has been almost zero evolution of the game world. Temporary fluff content is not an evolution or expansion of the world. It’s a complete waste of the potential that this game could have and should have achieved in it’s first year.

The most apt summary of Year One is: Potential Squandered.

I agree with your sentiment. And I’ll use the following quote to illustrate why I feel the way I do.

“With a dedicated live team more than ten times the size of the Guild Wars live team, we think you’re going to be blown away by the size and scope of live additions to the world of Tyria for a very, very long time.” – Colin Johanson

How many of you feel “blown away” by the additions made since launch?

Another sad element to all this is that the B2P business model provides one big advantage in that people who fall out of the game can take time off, come back later and find enjoyment in all the new stuff added since they went on Hiatus. Players taking time off and coming back to GW2 find a game world that hasn’t changed a peep and lists of achievements tied to temporary content that they will never experience.

ANet hasn’t just abandoned the principles the game was founded on, but they’ve worked in a way completely contrary to the game’s business model.

Vayne.8563:

You can only compare sales to sales.

Revenue to revenue is better. Those FtP games may very well be generating more revenue than GW2 without selling a box. Deciding to only compare box sales means that you are choosing to ignore entirely too much of the market.

Cooking not being in the top 3 crafts is total BS lol.

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

While you might not be saying the game is dead, plenty of people have. It’s not a long stretch to associate it with the haters (which I never felt you were one of anyway).

On the topic of story, I’m pretty sure most MMO players don’t give a rat’s kitten about stories. Most of them skip cut scenes. They’re not interested. I am, but I’ve always known I was the exception to the rule.

snip

But I do think a lot of people do like the living story. Anet doesn’t go by what you say or what I say or what they forum says. They look at the number of people logging in and playing content.

Really the only way to vote is to not log in and not play content.

It seems to me plenty of people are coming in for these 2 week updates and doing the content. As long as that keeps happening, the game will be successful, no matter how many people say they don’t like it.

Hey Vayne I don’t know if you actually support the view that people here are “hating” (lol) but I’ll try to reply as if you were (do not take this personally).
People saying the game is dead are obviously wrong, but people who say the game might be very close to dying are not wrong at all, due to a lot of missed opportunities and extremely bad managing on Anets part.

We (by we I mean the forum posters) are not the only people in the game experiencing the issue of “why do we actually still play if it’s not fun?”. My guild is a very successful one in the game with 50+ people online daily out of 120-ish members. And yet the last weeks a lot of posts have popped up about “silence in guild chat due to farming”, “lack of fun/joking”, “nobody willing to help anymore”, ’nobody does anything else than farming anymore" and a lot more of similar topics.

This means the problem isn’t one that is experienced by a small share of the players, it means it is one experienced by many. ArenaNet is trying to cover that feeling by continuously adding new “content” (Living story is hardly that) which provides new farm/grind options and new cosmetic rewards, functioning as a stick and carrot.

I believe story isn’t completely essential to having fun, but it does take the stress away from money. The story does give rewards in the form of personal feel of achieving something, living yourself out and so on. Other elements in the game are able to deliver that feel, such as exploring a hard dungeon and succeeding, finding a chest at the end with some completely random loot (maybe something good, most probably garbage, but it still feels good!), or getting to the top of a hard jumping puzzle and seeing the world from the top… etc. Story background creates a context for this.

Right now Living Story is a kittentail with following ingredients:

• Farm Method
• Farm Reward
• Story

The story however is so weak that it barely conceals the fact that arenanet is just throwing a random item at you and asking you: play (=farm) for 1 week more and you can have it! People finally see this and ask themselves “why are we doing this?”, cause it’s quite obviously a trap to make you play the game. That’s why we are not haters, but people who are discussing an existing problem, which will possibly rob Anet of a large chunk of their playerbase (not completely unjustified).

This last event was terrible for guild participation. It really makes guild chat very quiet. But I expect when the next patch comes out, guild chat will pick up again.

I don’t necessarily subscribe to the idea of haters…but I do think there are trolls among us. People who post just to get a rise out of other people. In fact, people have admitted to trolling me, so I guess I know there are trolls among us. Not that I’m calling anyone specifically a troll, mind you.

But what we do have is a group of less than a dozen people who post in every positive and every negative thread, making it look like there’s this huge wave of discontent with the game.

I think most people that don’t like the game have left already (just like every other game) and have moved on.

If you really don’t like the game, and you know where the game is going (because you’ve been told) why are you still here posting?

I’m sure people are genuinely disappointed with certain aspects of the game (I am too for that matter), but I play the game that’s there.

People think I love this game to death. This is completely untrue. I simply like this game more than any other MMO available. There are ways this game has let me down.

But the game is the game. It’s not going to change for me specifically so I play it differently than I would have if it were the “one” I’d been waiting for…and I’m enjoying myself in the process.

From Sirendor: The story however is so weak that it barely conceals the fact that arenanet is just throwing a random item at you and asking you: play (=farm) for 1 week more and you can have it! People finally see this and ask themselves “why are we doing this?”

I really identified with this statement. It does feel like we are given a to-do list which will keep you busy for a week and then you get a reward at the end. But for me that desire to get the reward is fading. I only did enough invasions to complete the Scarlet instance. I don’t care about the tonic. I’m one of those oddballs that does enjoy the story in a game; unfortunately in GW2 it seems secondary to the achievement based activities. For me one of the best events was Bazaar of the Four Winds. It had so much potential for a really interesting story especially with the crystals having a tie to Glint:

From the Trek of the Zephrites: I write with some confidence that once we leave this forsaken desert landscape, I will never return. It’s everything we are not: inhospitable, lifeless, and cruel. We’ll take her to a resting place with fresh breezes and gentle sunshine. She deserves nothing less.
She was as old as the Shiverpeaks, older than the gods. None will ever hear her true name spoken properly. And so we will remember her only as Glint, the one and only dragon who fought the destruction of our world. While we live, she will never be forgotten.

Rosen Myst.7641:

From Sirendor: The story however is so weak that it barely conceals the fact that arenanet is just throwing a random item at you and asking you: play (=farm) for 1 week more and you can have it! People finally see this and ask themselves “why are we doing this?”

I really identified with this statement. It does feel like we are given a to-do list which will keep you busy for a week and then you get a reward at the end. But for me that desire to get the reward is fading. I only did enough invasions to complete the Scarlet instance. I don’t care about the tonic. I’m one of those oddballs that does enjoy the story in a game; unfortunately in GW2 it seems secondary to the achievement based activities. For me one of the best events was Bazaar of the Four Winds. It had so much potential for a really interesting story especially with the crystals having a tie to Glint:

From the Trek of the Zephrites: I write with some confidence that once we leave this forsaken desert landscape, I will never return. It’s everything we are not: inhospitable, lifeless, and cruel. We’ll take her to a resting place with fresh breezes and gentle sunshine. She deserves nothing less.
She was as old as the Shiverpeaks, older than the gods. None will ever hear her true name spoken properly. And so we will remember her only as Glint, the one and only dragon who fought the destruction of our world. While we live, she will never be forgotten.

Good post. Really good post.

This is a really interesting article for a variety of reasons. It really shows the intelligence and care that has gone into designing this game. There are really alot of things that he says that hit me as, “wow… I didn’t really consider that.” I’m not sure if that means they missed the mark, being a player and having experienced it without the intended effect, or if it means I just overlooked the big picture on how fantastic this game really is and missed something. The second is quite possibly the case, as in many times past. The artist or creator often is the greatest judge of their own work. Look at the mona lisa! It isn’t considered the best because people saw it and immediately thought it was…. it’s considered the best because Da Vinci declared it his best work and carried it with him in his back pocket during his life.

Perfect example… Mike’s idea is that the two week schedule of updates and horizontal progression are ideal because they don’t fragment the player base. It’s very true….. they don’t. However, they also have the side effect of putting all of the players in the same places, at the same times. Which means on a technical scale, tons of lag… but also on a “experience” scale, it means that we’re all kind of stuck doing the newest thing with everyone else. I guess no design is completely perfect. Yet… the two week schedule is incredibly exciting. I constantly find myself thinking about what has just happened, or what might happen next. The experience of it is almost not nearly as thrilling as the constant anticipation, or the satisfaction of having experienced something new. So he’s definitely right about that, and in a way I hadn’t considered.

If there was one thing I could try to explain to him, it’s this….. YES, you have done some amazing things. Yes, this is the best MMO I’ve ever played and I personally believe the best that has ever been designed. BUT…. there are some things from previous games that are worthy of emulation. An important point to consider is that people played those games for a reason, and it wasn’t because they totally sucked in every possible way and we’re a bunch of MMO fan masochists. It’s because of awesome things like guild halls. It’s because of awesome things like personal housing instances where you could manipulate the creation of an environment and display your achievements. It’s because of awesome things like exploring new zones. These are some of the things that brought people into the MMO worlds of gaming’s past, despite those many things that you have improved upon such as the gear grind. Please don’t throw the baby out the window with the bath water! Those are great opportunities for you to grow this game.

That is all! Great first year, and I can’t wait to see what’s next. He’s got one thing right for certain… it’s an exciting game to be a player of and I personally can’t wait to experience it.

Hey all, I held a survey and finished it yesterday (with a variety of questions about the different game aspects). The data has been collected and uploaded to this forum thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Survey-Scores-of-GW2-UPDATED-DAILY/first#post2729450) aswell as a number chart.

Here it is, hope it helps you discuss things and helps Anet to see the player’s wishes.

Vayne, I think you are wrong in thinking this:

Vayne.8563:

“I think most people that don’t like the game have left already (just like every other game) and have moved on.”.

It isn’t because some of us are rather negative towards certain aspects of the game, that we dislike the game in total. Some parts of it still are extremely invigorating and delightful and make the game worthy of our attention. However, the maiority of the posts here focus on changing the game, not on destroying it.

Vayne.8563:

If you really don’t like the game, and you know where the game is going (because you’ve been told) why are you still here posting?

We’re posting here (I am in any case) because we think we can actually change the way the game works into a system that will ensure player loyalty (= good for Anet) and fun for the player (= good for the player). The point is that if the biggest share of the players disagrees with where the game is going, ArenaNet has a motive to change their game, without loss of pride. They can make this game so much better by changing the focus of the game towards non-grind.

Vayne.8563:

But what we do have is a group of less than a dozen people who post in every positive and every negative thread, making it look like there’s this huge wave of discontent with the game.

Do we? The survey I held shows that only 37,11% of the players who voted on it (the total of voters was way more than 12 xD) think Living Story fun, whereas 49,48% voted it as grindy.

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne, I think you are wrong in thinking this:

Vayne.8563:

“I think most people that don’t like the game have left already (just like every other game) and have moved on.”.

It isn’t because some of us are rather negative towards certain aspects of the game, that we dislike the game in total. Some parts of it still are extremely invigorating and delightful and make the game worthy of our attention. However, the maiority of the posts here focus on changing the game, not on destroying it.

Vayne.8563:

If you really don’t like the game, and you know where the game is going (because you’ve been told) why are you still here posting?

We’re posting here (I am in any case) because we think we can actually change the way the game works into a system that will ensure player loyalty (= good for Anet) and fun for the player (= good for the player). The point is that if the biggest share of the players disagrees with where the game is going, ArenaNet has a motive to change their game, without loss of pride. They can make this game so much better by changing the focus of the game towards non-grind.

Vayne.8563:

But what we do have is a group of less than a dozen people who post in every positive and every negative thread, making it look like there’s this huge wave of discontent with the game.

Do we? The survey I held shows that only 37,11% of the players who voted on it (the total of voters was way more than 12 xD) think Living Story fun, whereas 49,48% voted it as grindy.

I saw your survey and chose not to participate in it. Without going into great detail, I thought it was set up to get certain responses. Sometimes, how you ask the questions is how you get the answers.

And since I’m more positive and chose not to respond due to the nature of the poll, I’m not sure what that says about your poll results.

Vayne.8563:

I saw your survey and chose not to participate in it. Without going into great detail, I thought it was set up to get certain responses. Sometimes, how you ask the questions is how you get the answers.

And since I’m more positive and chose not to respond due to the nature of the poll, I’m not sure what that says about your poll results.

Points in a certain direction?! Every question had the same options and was asked the same way, nobody got forced to press grindy instead of fun, so I don’t know what you are talking about.

Sure, the purpose was to see if anyone actually liked certain other parts of the game more than Living story. The conclusion is, yes they do. That’s not something I could have influenced however much I had tried and I assure you I didn’t forge the results. As such the survey is unambiguous and I can only express my sadness at you for taking that view and not participating, not that it really matters if it’s only 1 person. Non-response bias I guess.

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

I saw your survey and chose not to participate in it. Without going into great detail, I thought it was set up to get certain responses. Sometimes, how you ask the questions is how you get the answers.

And since I’m more positive and chose not to respond due to the nature of the poll, I’m not sure what that says about your poll results.

Points in a certain direction?! Every question had the same options and was asked the same way, nobody got forced to press grindy instead of fun, so I don’t know what you are talking about.

Sure, the purpose was to see if anyone actually liked certain other parts of the game more than Living story. The conclusion is, yes they do. That’s not something I could have influenced however much I had tried and I assure you I didn’t forge the results. As such the survey is unambiguous and I can only express my sadness at you for taking that view and not participating, not that it really matters if it’s only 1 person. Non-response bias I guess.

Did you bother to take a poll of how many people didn’t take the poll because they didn’t like the look of it?

How many people are on this forum? How many people responded?

I understand what you’re trying to do. I just don’t necessarily think it was the best way to do it. Though I do applaud you for putting the time and effort you obviously did into it. I just didn’t expect the results to be indicative of anything.

Well it just isn’t possible to let everyone respond. There are always people with a variety of reasons not to respond:
- no time
- no interest
- countered against a certain subject

I understand it if you didn’t take part, but you could just have followed your own opinions and responded to Living Story being fun, I wouldn’t mind at all, in fact it would make the survey more truthful.
If all those who think my set-up is ment to disgrace Living Story do not answer, there wouldn’t be anyone who responded “fun” for LS. This isn’t the case, and I respect people who do like it as much as others, cause it might very well have happened that more people responded to Living Story as fun (if, as you imply, everyone who is pro-LS didn’t vote). If Living story came out more positive than other elements I would cheer it on, cause that would mean ArenaNet is going in the right direction.

However, the survey results have clearly showed that most people (who voted) dislike zerg/grind and like more unique content (such as Jumping Puzzles). This is not something exclusive to Living Story alone, but also hits Large scale WvW and World Bosses very hard.

I don’t want to even get more off topic. I didn’t respond to the thread itself, because I didn’t think it was fair to you. I’m sorry I brought it up here. My apologies.

No harm done. Discuss along. Would just be nice if ArenaNet itself held a community-wide survey that everyone was forced to fill in. Saves us all the work :P

Sirendor.1394:

The story however is so weak that it barely conceals the fact that arenanet is just throwing a random item at you and asking you: play (=farm) for 1 week more and you can have it! People finally see this and ask themselves “why are we doing this?”, cause it’s quite obviously a trap to make you play the game. That’s why we are not haters, but people who are discussing an existing problem, which will possibly rob Anet of a large chunk of their playerbase (not completely unjustified).

Yup, this is basically what I’ve come to realise after a long denial, due to the misplaced loyalty for this game and company. I’m sure, eventually, and very soon, everyone will realised this and turn to other real games that don’t rely on cheap tricks and fast money making tactics. Anet, you’re running on borrowed time and it’s time to pay up.

Sirendor.1394:

No harm done. Discuss along. Would just be nice if ArenaNet itself held a community-wide survey that everyone was forced to fill in. Saves us all the work :P

Yea but then if something negative came out of it, they couldn’t just blame it on the haters…

I don’t see them doing that. Even if it would be good for them to know how to improve things. This game is more about perception than reality.

Sirendor.1394:

Hey all, I held a survey and finished it yesterday (with a variety of questions about the different game aspects). The data has been collected and uploaded to this forum thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Survey-Scores-of-GW2-UPDATED-DAILY/first#post2729450) aswell as a number chart.

Here it is, hope it helps you discuss things and helps Anet to see the player’s wishes.

Rather silly to claim your data to be 100% true and correct when everyone knows there’s three kinds of lies:
Lies, kitten lies and statistics.

as I’ve said before, your poll was as biased as could be, and no relevant data can be pulled from it. Your conclusions are as fair and balanced as fox news, about as trustworthy as conservapedia.

Good try though, next time, with honest options, you might get honest conclusions. And don’t claim truth. Let people do that for themselves. Makes you look really, really bad.

Sirendor.1394:

Hey all, I held a survey and finished it yesterday (with a variety of questions about the different game aspects). The data has been collected and uploaded to this forum thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Survey-Scores-of-GW2-UPDATED-DAILY/first#post2729450) aswell as a number chart.

Here it is, hope it helps you discuss things and helps Anet to see the player’s wishes.

I’m not going to comment on your questions, as some have already done so. I think it’s a fine effort, and I, too, am interested in what you’re trying to get at.

The only thing I’d add is that 100 people is very most probably not statistically significant compared to the GW2 population as a whole. Also – you’re only getting the opinions of the sorts of people who read the forums – the numbers of whom, I strongly suspect, are not even close to the total population of players.

I don’t think there’s a solution to this unless you can find a way to query a statistically significant random cross-section of the entire player-base. I’d imagine only ArenaNet has the information to do so.