Guild Wars 2

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

I liked the stats at the bottom. Interesting to know, statistically, how the game faired and some comparisons.

But I think this was an il-timed promo of Living Story, making it seem like the saving grace of the game. I disagree and believe it promotes nothing more than checking off boxes for AP, minis, and now farming for $$. Playing for fun is all but gone, unless these things are enjoyment.

However, happy birthday Guild Wars 2.

If the 23,470,844 Dolyak caravan kills were divided so that maximum number of players would have the Yakslapper title, then 23 people out of 3,500,000 would have the title. Something to think about.

Logged into this forum after a long break just to say:

Happy Birthday Guild Wars 2!

I wish I had more time to play you!

Updating the game every 18,9 days does say nothing about quality and is not its equal in guild wars 2. Stop boasting your 14 day quick and dirty stuff, take your time and give us quality updates. Yes the game started brilliant, many features have been improved, some are still lacking, but overall it is a great game – aside from the ever repeating LS and the new additions of zerging. The age of zerging, may it be over again soon.

I am still a friend of tyria and I sincerly hope those devs, who created the release version of guild wars 2 will come back to us with new content soon. Those devs who stand for the living story have earned themselves a long vacation for their hard work, if you ask me.

Happy birthday Guild Wars 2! Hopefully your second year will prove more entertaining than the first.

Those poor dolyaks.

Like the infographic but just one detail is wrong:

Wikipedia is not a source but rather a collection of sources. When taking numbers from Wikipedia, the correct thing to do is click the little blue number between [] and use that source instead.

Just saying. The numbers are awesome.

Also the 481,000+ players only, is that a constant at any time, or the peak number at one point? It’s not very clear.

Nice to see we’re a friendly bunch too, always rezzing others.

Lol @ poor yaks.

Agreed for quality over quantity. I thought that this was the universal thought chain that could be applied to anything in life. Kind of like, common sense.

I might like to have 100 old, crinkly thousand-dollar bills, over 1 crisp and shiny new one; but, yes, usually quality over quantity. Lol. =P

I can’t say I feel the quality is missing from the Living Story, nowadays, but that’s just me.

Mackdose.6504:

Happy Birthday Guild Wars 2!

I wish I had more time to play you!

Happy Birthday Guild Wars 2!

I wish I had more of you to play!

cesmode.4257:

Playing for fun is all but gone,

Yep.

cesmode.4257:

unless these things are enjoyment.

Nope.

“We’re now updating Guild Wars 2 about five times as often as the typical MMO.”

Too bad the updates feature one-fifth the meaningful content as the updates in the typical MMO.

darkace.8925:

“We’re now updating Guild Wars 2 about five times as often as the typical MMO.”

Too bad the updates feature one-fifth the meaningful content as the updates in the typical MMO.

:P

darkace.8925:

“We’re now updating Guild Wars 2 about five times as often as the typical MMO.”

Too bad the updates feature one-fifth the meaningful content as the updates in the typical MMO.

- That’s basically how you advertise anything. If it’s not high quality, then you can say it’s cheap or cheaper than something else. If your sales aren’t high, you can advertise that at least the growth of sales is going upwards. Pick any small detail that’s into your advantage and publish.

Zenith.6403:

If the 23,470,844 Dolyak caravan kills were divided so that maximum number of players would have the Yakslapper title, then 23 people out of 3,500,000 would have the title. Something to think about.

Or it could mean nobody has the title and everyone only killed 7 dolyaks, which is not true… I think the average WvW player has 1k-ish dolyak kills. Which means only 25000 people ever tried WvW?

That infografic made me want to start a charr Mesmer.

Erasculio.2914:

I think the game became worse.

I think GW2 was released as something with a lot of flaws, but also with a lot of potential.

Take Dynamic Events, for example. Sure, many are – boring, telling no story, with no impact in the world. But some are amazing, showing how they could be used to make a truly dynamic world rich with small stories happening all around the players.

But then ArenaNet learned that players don’t care that much about dynamic events, unless they can be used to farm (even if farming requires people to exploit the event). So instead of improving the DE design, and making more of the story-based events, ArenaNet has focused on the opposite: using shallow events with no impact on the world, borrowing mechanics from other places, and repeating the resulting DEs all over the map.

Just take a look at the invasions. The Aetherblade event is just a copy of the “drive away the Aetherblades” events we had to unlock the baloons, which is probably why minions count in a per-kill basis, while pirates are under a per-event basis. The invasions are the same event repeated in multiple maps, just like the Instigator events in Southsun were the same event repeated twice in the same map.

Imagine if the game were like that at release. Instead of the Claw of Jormag, the Shatterer and Tequatl, we would have the same generic dragon minion spawning in three places in the world, using the exact same mechanics in all the 3 places.

This is not an improvement. This is ArenaNet wasting all the potential DEs had, while using events as an easy way to make players farm.

The same could be said about all other aspects of the game. In exchange for minor features (what did the wallet really add to the game? Other than freeing some inventory slots, it’s not really that much of an improvement), we got things that are either making the game worse (champion boxes) or wasting its potential.

Once upon a time, ArenaNet boasted that they would take a hard stance against exploiters. Then they lost a lot of players, and now they are afraid to ban the exploiters, fearing they would lose more players than they can afford to throw away.

I agree, but sadly messages like yours are being ignored by ArenaNet. You have written this very orderly and logically consistent, thank you for putting it so clear and expressing what I had in mind.

I’d like to add that for me GW2 was supposed to be a neverending, ever evolving world, which threw challenges at you and asked you to act, or else the consequences for the world would be grave. Instead of using dynamic events throughout the world that would change the world, based on if they were succeeded or failed by the players, they simply threw them in as a world-filler, always the same things being required of you and no real challenge involved.

Instead they started with “Living story”, a term so abused in this case, that it’s hard to tell what it even means anymore. The story doesn’t seem to do anything at all, it doesn’t matter what the player does… the story goes on without change even if nobody fought the a) Molten Alliance b) Aetherblades c) Holographics d) More Aetherblades e) Pointkitten sses in QJ f) Scarlet…

The example I like to use for what it should have been is the currently existing Centaur Event chain in Kessex Hills. At a certain moment the centaurs start to build a bridge, the players destroy the bridge and so on. The problem is, the event isn’t hard at all. Downleveled aswell as on-level players can succeed without difficulty.

But instead, what if the event was really hard and required you to rally players all over the world, because if you didn’t… the centaurs might become a real threat and change the world forever. They raid the villages in kessex hills, destroying structures (that’s right, destroyed permanently). This could set a whole of missions in motion. Players needing to recruit NPC soldiers to help them in the battle against centaurs, big battles that mean something. If the centaurs get through they permanently change the world, eventually possibly threatening trade routes (cutting off black lion trading?) and permanently killing npcs, buildings, mobs… maybe invading the capital of Kryta, Divinity’s Reach itself? Also, skill should be a major part of this, not the mindless zerging we see now. Depending on your ability to face of enemies alone (that’s right, the reward scales with the difficulty), you earn ‘allegiance points’ and can climb into a world system, becoming a noble with your own estate, or a thief that works for a local thief guild.

Of course this is a dynamic event… but one on a HUGE scale. This is what Guild Wars 2 needed… not the silly Living Stories we get right now.

It’s also interesting to see how the concept of the personal storyline has been thrown through the window after release. It was never that personal in the first place – our choices didn’t really matter, all characters had the same dialogue in the later two thirds of the game regardless of race and gender, and so on. But it could have been improved into something actually about our characters, in which players would feel they had an impact on the world’s story.

But no. The Living World went into the opposite direction. There, our characters are one more nameless solider working for someone else. Due to how ArenaNet made the poor decision of using expensive voice actors for our characters, they are not going to record new dialogue any time soon; and ironically, since it’s not cost-effective to record little bits of dialogue one at a time, the small updates are bad things in which record voice overs for our characters (as opposed to a full expansion, in which a lot of dialogue would have to be recorded).

This taints the storyline. Our characters are not the heroes – they are mute followers to others. We just do as others tell us to do, and only follow behind characters like Roxx.

This is the opposite of the personal storyline. ArenaNet’s promise of a game about the players has died, and been replaced by Scarlet Sue.

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

Sirendor and erasculio couldnt have said it better.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

Almost nothing said in that article is true. The Living Story has added virtually nothing to the game. I, as a player, do not feel that my choices have any permanent impact on the gameworld whatsoever.

After reading that article, I am angry, disappointed, confused and very uneasy about the future direction of the game. I probably shouldn’t have read that article. I would be much happier right now.

Elbegast.6970:

After reading that article, I am angry, disappointed, confused and very uneasy about the future direction of the game. I probably shouldn’t have read that article. I would be much happier right now.

Oh, it gets better. Read this:

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32955&storypage=1

See my signature for a preview.

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

So how many MMORPGs can you name that reached 3.5 million sales ever?

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

So how many MMORPGs can you name that reached 3.5 million sales ever?

I can only think of 1, World of Warcraft.

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

So how many MMORPGs can you name that reached 3.5 million sales ever?

Not many. It is an an amazing amount. But that’s not what I was referring to. If you reread you will see that I was talking about fastest selling, not about the 3.5 million total. Those are two different items. I hate inconsistencies. So they calculated sales of 9 months but now they do a year update. They did really well in sales. I don’t argue that, but I just don’t like the inconsistency of 9 months vs 1 year. It’s just how my brain works. So call that a preference or OCD issue of mine.

But if you want to talk about the 3.5 million number I have some context for that also.
I know SWTOR sold millions for example, but then with f2p added they don’t sell too many boxes anymore…how does that compare then? Since f2p they had over 2 million new accounts made after already selling 2-3 million copies before that… How to compare that? In fact a lot of other MMOs nowadays have f2p added, so again no clear comparison can be made. And this is what I mean. Now Anet are proud to sell 3.5 million copies. I would be too. But it’s a bit of a skewed thing in a time where most MMOs have a lot of f2p accounts next to subs and aren’t necessarily getting income from box sales anymore. For Anet it’s a big part of their income still a year in. You can see that because compared to other games after a year, their box price is still kept high. A fairer number to quote is actual sales in a given currency. Another one is concurrency.

Now you didn’t respond to the concurrency point but I think I can say, we both know that that number came from last year. I personally find it misleading that they quote it now as a year achievement. Sure, they achieved that in the first year so they didn’t lie as such, but it’s not a neutral presentation. It does imply the game is doing that amazing today. If they had 460k concurrent players today I would applaud them, but that’s not the case. Personally, it was a great start, but I am more interested in concurrency today. If you advertise a game with year old figures, that smacks a bit of well, it doesn’t feel honest to me.

Also the amount of TP transactions can use context. I’ll keep it simple. You can’t trade between players so you have no alternative.

That they sold 3.5 million copies is amazing. They were also lucky I think, because the game came out just before all those other MMOs introduced f2p to their games. But it’s ok to be lucky. No matter how anyone turns it, selling that many copies is a great feat. In fact that’s probable the only number that I will support. It’s a very clear number that can’t really be misinterpreted.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

snip

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

So how many MMORPGs can you name that reached 3.5 million sales ever?

Not many. It is an an amazing amount. But that’s not what I was referring to. If you reread you will see that I was talking about fastest selling, not about the 3.5 million total. Those are two different items. I hate inconsistencies. So they calculated sales of 9 months but now they do a year update. They did really well in sales. I don’t argue that, but I just don’t like the inconsistency of 9 months vs 1 year. It’s just how my brain works. So call that a preference or OCD issue of mine.

But if you want to talk about the 3.5 million number I have some context for that also.
I know SWTOR sold millions for example, but then with f2p added they don’t sell too many boxes anymore…how does that compare then? Since f2p they had over 2 million new accounts made after already selling 2-3 million copies before that… How to compare that? In fact a lot of other MMOs nowadays have f2p added, so again no clear comparison can be made. And this is what I mean. Now Anet are proud to sell 3.5 million copies. I would be too. But it’s a bit of a skewed thing in a time where most MMOs have a lot of f2p accounts next to subs and aren’t necessarily getting income from box sales anymore. For Anet it’s a big part of their income still a year in. You can see that because compared to other games after a year, their box price is still kept high. A fairer number to quote is actual sales in a given currency. Another one is concurrency.

Now you didn’t respond to the concurrency point but I think I can say, we both know that that number came from last year. I personally find it misleading that they quote it now as a year achievement. Sure, they achieved that in the first year so they didn’t lie as such, but it’s not a neutral presentation. It does imply the game is doing that amazing today. If they had 460k concurrent players today I would applaud them, but that’s not the case. Personally, it was a great start, but I am more interested in concurrency today. If you advertise a game with year old figures, that smacks a bit of well, it doesn’t feel honest to me.

Also the amount of TP transactions can use context. I’ll keep it simple. You can’t trade between players so you have no alternative.

That they sold 3.5 million copies is amazing. They were also lucky I think, because the game came out just before all those other MMOs introduced f2p to their games. But it’s ok to be lucky. No matter how anyone turns it, selling that many copies is a great feat. In fact that’s probable the only number that I will support. It’s a very clear number that can’t really be misinterpreted.

You can only compare sales to sales. Do you think if Guild Wars 2 went free to play…with no purchase, people wouldn’t make accounts? Maybe even multiple accounts?

A game that has no cost means someone can make an account play the game for two seconds and never look at it again…because it costs them nothing.

You can only compare sales to sales.

So how long was SWToR available before it went free to play. I’m pretty sure it was more than a year. That means in the first year, Guild Wars 2 sold more copies than SWToR, no matter what it did after it went free to play. And no one can say what Guild Wars 2 would do if it went completely free.

The other sales figures to look at are games like Rift which at least according to some sources, never hit 1 million sales.

Guild Wars 2 is, of the MMOs that aren’t free, the fast selling MMO of all time. I’m sure it sold 3.5 million copies faster than WoW did. But even if it didn’t, WoW was a cash rich company, coming off the heels of success with Star Craft and Warcraft 2. These games were very well received and the company had boatloads of money to advertise.

Tell me, how many TV commericals did you see for Guild Wars 2, compared to how many TV commercials you’ve seen for SWToR or WoW? But even with the handicap, Guild Wars 2 sold amazingly well.

What’s less clear is how many people stopped playing for good. How many people don’t like the game.

Some people claim most of the people who bought it stopped playing permanently. I don’t know if that’s true or not. If it’s 50% that’s 175 million people who still log in from time.

I don’t know if it’s more or less than that, but I know there’s a lot of people playing this game and I think people who try to convince others otherwise are doing the wrong thing.

darkace.8925:

“We’re now updating Guild Wars 2 about five times as often as the typical MMO.”

Too bad the updates feature one-fifth the meaningful content as the updates in the typical MMO.

The typical update in the typical MMO was a raid I would never play due to lack of gear. As such, that content might as well not have existed.

Many promotional tricks are used in that post which I do not appreciate at all. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the game is good.

Some well accomplished achievements I have to say, proves you put really some hard effort in the game however you deeply dissapoint me and many other PvPers in this whole year.

I heard so much about GW1 PvP well GW2 doesnt live up at my expectations at all, the only reason why I keep playing PvP is because the combat is fun. Maybe this year you should actually focus on the PvPers more.

Every update you come up with some new PVE content which actually lines out almost the entire update page and some new skins with an UNinteresting story, I try to actively participate in PVE but after an hour I return to PvP because PvE doesnt pull you into the story so far and its just plain out boring.
Then comes een small patch for PvP, its clearly you are understaffed for PvP or you should admit that you want this to be a PvE game.

It is might boggling how you even say some classes are good as they are, LIKE WOOOT, and please dont tell me you need constructive feedback as there are more then enough top players who know what they are saying. See forums

Its good that you are talking to the PvPplayer base, its something else to listen.

Vayne.8563:

You can only compare sales to sales. Do you think if Guild Wars 2 went free to play…with no purchase, people wouldn’t make accounts? Maybe even multiple accounts?

A game that has no cost means someone can make an account play the game for two seconds and never look at it again…because it costs them nothing.

You can only compare sales to sales.

Correct but box sales in GW2 = accounts. In other games it does not. That was my point. You can’t make a clean comparison.

You are also correct about sales, but box sales are just part of it. There is no mention of the gemstore and other games also have cash shops. They are part of the sales. So this needs to be included for a fair comparison. Total sales are all the money made togehter. F2P works as long as there are enough sales in the cash shop as well.

Vayne.8563:

So how long was SWToR available before it went free to play. I’m pretty sure it was more than a year. That means in the first year, Guild Wars 2 sold more copies than SWToR, no matter what it did after it went free to play. And no one can say what Guild Wars 2 would do if it went completely free.

It was less than a year actually. SWTOR launched December 2011 and f2p came in Novemeber of 2012. I know that within the first 9 months GW2 sold more copies, I do not contest that. I just find the comparison difficult because since f2p and their cash shop came into being, sales are not the same configuration anymore. That’s why I say just counting box sales is not a clean comparison. Still an amazing amount of sales, but not a clean comparison.

No one can say what GW2 would do if it went completely free, but the cash shop would have to take over completely. We haven’t heard much about that subject however.

Vayne.8563:

The other sales figures to look at are games like Rift which at least according to some sources, never hit 1 million sales.

Dunno, I’ve heard various stories as well. Point is, I never said 3.5 million isn’t amazing as far as I know. In fact I didn’t mention that in my first post at all, so not sure why you brought that in as the only reply to my post, when I myself didn’t even mention that number.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 is, of the MMOs that aren’t free, the fast selling MMO of all time. I’m sure it sold 3.5 million copies faster than WoW did. But even if it didn’t, WoW was a cash rich company, coming off the heels of success with Star Craft and Warcraft 2. These games were very well received and the company had boatloads of money to advertise.

Agreed.

Vayne.8563:

Tell me, how many TV commericals did you see for Guild Wars 2, compared to how many TV commercials you’ve seen for SWToR or WoW? But even with the handicap, Guild Wars 2 sold amazingly well.

I have not seen a single tv commercial for SWTOR. I have seen them for WoW. GW2 sold amazingly well and I know they also made tv commercials but I never saw those on tv, just on youtube. And I still agree that GW2 sold an amazing amount of copies, especially in the first 3 months. Sales plummeted something like 70% after that as we know from the financial reports, but as this would include cash shop sales I do not now the ratio, just the total sales of course.

Vayne.8563:

What’s less clear is how many people stopped playing for good. How many people don’t like the game.

Some people claim most of the people who bought it stopped playing permanently. I don’t know if that’s true or not. If it’s 50% that’s 175 million people who still log in from time.

I don’t know if it’s more or less than that, but I know there’s a lot of people playing this game and I think people who try to convince others otherwise are doing the wrong thing.

I don’t know those numbers either…btw I think you meant 1.75 million, not 175 million. My personal guess is that it’s less than that but it is anybody’s guess really. If some one logs in 5 times during a year to say hello to some friends or just to see where the game’s at but don’t actually get into playing are they to be counted? I dunno. That’s why I prefer to know about concurrency because that’s more interesting than anything else. But the concurrency of today we also don’t know.

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

I already made another topic about it, but here are my reactions again:

They constantly talk about “changing the world”. Yet nothing about the living story has changed anything. Yeah there are some new NPC’s but nothing about the core game has changed since launch. Either stop the living story mess mediocrity or go further with it, really change the world instead of just say that you have. Destroy cities, kill important NPC’s, have huge events that leave a mark. For all the talk ANet have put out about the LS CHANGING THE WORLD they have nothing to show for it. I for one am getting really frustrated about the direction the game is taking and the fact that what ANet says is completely different compared to what they actually do.

“What I personally want to see is a year later, after 25 of these releases, the world feels like a completely different world. That’s the level of change I want to see and that is what we are doing now.”

So far it isn’t. I guess we can see a year later if it’s worked at all.

On adding new zones: the ones they’ve added via living story have been tiny. Southsun is just a big karka hole. Labyrinthine cliffs? That’s nothing. (and it’s not even there anymore. Did it vanish somewhere?) Are ever they going to add bigger zones such as the maps we had with launch via Living story, complete with hearts, dungeons, events and new mechanics?

“… look at clockwork chaos as an example, players are banding together. I think you really do get a sense that the world is changing all the time.”

How is it changing? We get an “invasion” where mobs just stand around. Everyone else in the zone goes about in their normal business as nothing strange is going on. After you stop the invasion, everything is the same. EVEN IF YOU FAIL EVERYTHING IS THE SAME. Where’s the change?

Ohh, I gotta stop reading the spindoctor thesis of ANet marketing gurus and executives before I develop an ulcer.

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

Chuo.4238:

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

1) My point is that Anet are not special in that, but I agree I don’t like it either in general.
2) Ahh that’s a matter of opinion though isn’t it? I think Anet didn’t live up to the hype others do. Who is right? We can only be right for ourselves, not for other people. I am a big fan of SWTOR for example but they didn’t live up to the hype either and made a ton of mistakes….but they turned things around. Still not perfect but I enjoy it. Others still hate it and think the devs are idiots. Is their opinion not true for them?

phiplayer.2865:

I find this thread funny with all the haters trying to mock the game as hard as they can.

And i find this funny too, because of people (mostly haters) aske anet to show off their big numbers. And now, when we got the answer, people:
-don’t believe them,
-think those are advertisments,
- that they are too small,
- that even with alive, healthy, think that community of this game is dead.

You know what i’m going to tell you ?

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

In response to this comment, the only thing I can do is sigh.

Criticism is something developers are supposed to learn from and should be grateful for. It means there are people who care enough about their game, that they are willing to spend time to shout out what they like/dislike/think should be improved. There isn’t a single comment out there that is completely made up out of negative criticism, they always state what might be a good solution to the problem, which in turn should – theoretically – help the developers.

I’d also like to add that if you think this isn’t an advertisement on Anets part, you are terribly naive.

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

Like every other company in the world. So sad for a.net to be working exactly like expected. I’m so disappointed for the PR in the latest blog to have the exact same spin I expect from every single company in the world. I totally expected that from a for-profit company /irony

Sirendor.1394:

phiplayer.2865:

I find this thread funny with all the haters trying to mock the game as hard as they can.

And i find this funny too, because of people (mostly haters) aske anet to show off their big numbers. And now, when we got the answer, people:
-don’t believe them,
-think those are advertisments,
- that they are too small,
- that even with alive, healthy, think that community of this game is dead.

You know what i’m going to tell you ?

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

In response to this comment, the only thing I can do is sigh.

Criticism is something developers are supposed to learn from and should be grateful for. It means there are people who care enough about their game, that they are willing to spend time to shout out what they like/dislike/think should be improved. There isn’t a single comment out there that is completely made up out of negative criticism, they always state what might be a good solution to the problem, which in turn should – theoretically – help the developers.

I’d also like to add that if you think this isn’t an advertisement on Anets part, you are terribly naive.

Absolutely. Many companies (and other organizations) pay consultants a lot of money to get solid consumer feedback that they can work with. So many companies would love to have a way to get that feedback without having to pay for it.

ArenaNet gets it for free. And, from what I can tell, treats it rather like some of their customers did getting a bunch of the same free minipet.

phiplayer.2865:

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

What a well-thought out and constructive post. Why don’t you actually try to read some of the critique shared here instead of meta-discussion and/or borderline trolling? And share your own opinion on it?

phiplayer.2865:

I find this thread funny with all the haters trying to mock the game as hard as they can.

And i find this funny too, because of people (mostly haters) aske anet to show off their big numbers. And now, when we got the answer, people:
-don’t believe them,
-think those are advertisments,
- that they are too small,
- that even with alive, healthy, think that community of this game is dead.

You know what i’m going to tell you ?

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

How is this not hating?

Long short story:
-game launched too early, regardless of all the “When it’s ready claims”.
Not only bugs, but overall design of some areas of the game (DGs, WvW) have/had a very noticeable rushed or uncompleted feeling. On the other hand the launch time has been perfect from a marketing standpoint – over this year no decent/fearsome MMOs launched. MoP was catering a different audience to begin with, and the only MMO lanuched in past 12 months has been Neverwinter, which isn’t anything special. Also, i guess they rushed August on purpose to have Sept to sort out game stability and then start pushing with events with Halloween/Wintersday combo. I guess delaying the game would have meant skipping at very least to Jan to keep that couple toghether.

-game overall have a GREAT potential. But too many good things have been scrapped from GW1. Some design choices turned out backfiring into a worse solution than what they meant to resolve(i hate trinity with passion. Gw1 soft trinity – healers on 2 set classes, everybody else is nearly free – was perfect to me. was quite hyped about the 0 trinity of GW2. But now it turned out in something worse, especially pve wise.). Some issues lies in very early game building decisions(who is the “genius” who decided to utilize Gw1 engine instead of a modern and better optimized/coded one?).

-and on top of that, devs failed to deliver post launch imo. Playerbase has been hardly listened(Wxp accbound? PTR?). Some bugs are still around since BWE1. Balancing around tpvp hurts the rest of the game, badly (and even in tpvp balance isn’t good at all). After some tries they simply dropped the ball over permanent content, at least so far in 2013 – just look at DGs, had Fotm in November, AC revamp months ago, then DG team got cut away in favor of LS. And i think everybody agrees that DGs are far from polished and balanced decently enough to do not need a dedicated team.

At the end, ppl still play (and still post here, even if not playing anymore or with a angry attitude) cause the game is not bad. But you can see what it could have been. Much, much bigger and better, 360°.

“Wasted potential” makes ppl much more angry than a simply “bad game”.

/end rant
/all imo
/contains hyperboles

AndrewSX.3794:

Long short story:
-game launched too early, regardless of all the “When it’s ready claims”.
Not only bugs, but overall design of some areas of the game (DGs, WvW) have/had a very noticeable rushed or uncompleted feeling. On the other hand the launch time has been perfect from a marketing standpoint – over this year no decent/fearsome MMOs launched. MoP was catering a different audience to begin with, and the only MMO lanuched in past 12 months has been Neverwinter, which isn’t anything special. Also, i guess they rushed August on purpose to have Sept to sort out game stability and then start pushing with events with Halloween/Wintersday combo. I guess delaying the game would have meant skipping at very least to Jan to keep that couple toghether.

-game overall have a GREAT potential. But too many good things have been scrapped from GW1. Some design choices turned out backfiring into a worse solution than what they meant to resolve(i hate trinity with passion. Gw1 soft trinity – healers on 2 set classes, everybody else is nearly free – was perfect to me. was quite hyped about the 0 trinity of GW2. But now it turned out in something worse, especially pve wise.). Some issues lies in very early game building decisions(who is the “genius” who decided to utilize Gw1 engine instead of a modern and better optimized/coded one?).

-and on top of that, devs failed to deliver post launch imo. Playerbase has been hardly listened(Wxp accbound? PTR?). Some bugs are still around since BWE1. Balancing around tpvp hurts the rest of the game, badly (and even in tpvp balance isn’t good at all). After some tries they simply dropped the ball over permanent content, at least so far in 2013 – just look at DGs, had Fotm in November, AC revamp months ago, then DG team got cut away in favor of LS. And i think everybody agrees that DGs are far from polished and balanced decently enough to do not need a dedicated team.

At the end, ppl still play (and still post here, even if not playing anymore or with a angry attitude) cause the game is not bad. But you can see what it could have been. Much, much bigger and better, 360°.

“Wasted potential” makes ppl much more angry than a simply “bad game”.

/end rant
/all imo
/contains hyperboles

For what it’s worth, almost exactly how I feel. +1, if anyone’s counting these things.

Sirendor.1394:

phiplayer.2865:

I find this thread funny with all the haters trying to mock the game as hard as they can.

And i find this funny too, because of people (mostly haters) aske anet to show off their big numbers. And now, when we got the answer, people:
-don’t believe them,
-think those are advertisments,
- that they are too small,
- that even with alive, healthy, think that community of this game is dead.

You know what i’m going to tell you ?

You are wasting your time, dear hater. Go do something for christ sake, by posting in this thread you didn’t gain anything. And if you think that your efforts damaged, somehow, GW2, you are totally wrong.

In response to this comment, the only thing I can do is sigh.

Criticism is something developers are supposed to learn from and should be grateful for. It means there are people who care enough about their game, that they are willing to spend time to shout out what they like/dislike/think should be improved. There isn’t a single comment out there that is completely made up out of negative criticism, they always state what might be a good solution to the problem, which in turn should – theoretically – help the developers.

I’d also like to add that if you think this isn’t an advertisement on Anets part, you are terribly naive.

Everyone knew this was advertisement but let’s be clear. If you expected anything different from advertisements, you are terribly naive.

marnick.4305:

Everyone knew this was advertisement but let’s be clear. If you expected anything different from advertisements, you are terribly naive.

To be honest, I don’t remember any of the games I played making quite such a numbers display as Anet have done here in preparation of their China offensive.

Sure, companies may at times indicate sales numbers but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of the games I played before make such a hoopla about it.

Maybe you have different experiences.

Personally when I see numbers I want facts and context so I can weigh the value of these numbers. Advertising like this obviously doesn’t give you that context.

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

So what you’re saying here is that it’s wrong for companies to put stuff in the best light possible (ie advertise) and that Anet isn’t trying to live up to its hype or take professional pride.

Imagine that you have 300 people working on a product. Do you think all 300 people are going to be exactly the same. You don’t think some of the people at Anet have pride in their work?

Anet isn’t a person…it’s a company. You can’t put 300 employees into one basket. You can’t even say they have no pride in their game or they’re not trying to live up to the hype.

What they aren’t doing is living up to what you think the game should be. That has nothing to do with them living up to what they think the game should be. And with 300 employees on board, what makes you think that all of them have the exact same ideas of what the game should be.

Take ascended gear, which was introduced into the game. Was everyone at Anet in favor of it? Does anyone know? Was anyone there at meeting to know if any arguing happened? Does anyone know what was discussed.

There’s a great danger in painting all Anet employees with one brush or generalizing about Anet employees in general, much less trying to kitten how much pride they have in what they do.

Even in a much smaller business that I ran, I had tremendous pride in what I did, but I had to hire a specific number of people, with a specific budget. On any given day, depending who was working, different people might make it look as if that place had no pride, because one person did the wrong thing, or made the wrong decision of the wrong thing happened.

The more people you need to employee the more likely it is that you’ll need to employee people who are less qualified than the original people. It’s like customer service. If you need 1000 people, you’re not like to get 1000 first class technicians. If you judge a company based on the first guy you get on the phone, you’re going to be disappointed.

I think you make a whole lot of assumptions about Anet that are based on your specific prejudiced on how you want the game to be.

‘More than the Czech Republic voted in their last Presidential Election!’

I really hope no one there voted hundreds or thousands of times, or sold their votes…

Gehenna.3625:

That they sold 3.5 million copies is amazing. They were also lucky I think, because the game came out just before all those other MMOs introduced f2p to their games. But it’s ok to be lucky. No matter how anyone turns it, selling that many copies is a great feat. In fact that’s probable the only number that I will support. It’s a very clear number that can’t really be misinterpreted.

Guild Wars 2’s initial blush of success was pretty much guaranteed by the folks who played Guild Wars. I’d say a fair portion of those 3.5 million copies were snatched up by manifestly misguided Guild Wars players, who were expecting more of what they loved about Guild Wars in Guild Wars 2 than what they actually got. How many are still here?

It would be interesting to see the ratio of former Guild Wars players to players who didn’t play Guild Wars among the currently active players. It would also be interesting to know which of these groups is most happy with the current state of the game.

Standard Disclaimers ~

‘Fair portion’ does not mean ‘all’.
In my opinion, this post presents my opinion.
‘Interesting’ in this context means ‘interesting’.

Tachenon.5270:

Gehenna.3625:

That they sold 3.5 million copies is amazing. They were also lucky I think, because the game came out just before all those other MMOs introduced f2p to their games. But it’s ok to be lucky. No matter how anyone turns it, selling that many copies is a great feat. In fact that’s probable the only number that I will support. It’s a very clear number that can’t really be misinterpreted.

Guild Wars 2’s initial blush of success was pretty much guaranteed by the folks who played Guild Wars. I’d say a fair portion of those 3.5 million copies were snatched up by manifestly misguided Guild Wars players, who were expecting more of what they loved about Guild Wars in Guild Wars 2 than what they actually got. How many are still here?

It would be interesting to see the ratio of former Guild Wars players to players who didn’t play Guild Wars among the currently active players. It would also be interesting to know which of these groups is most happy with the current state of the game.

Standard Disclaimers ~

‘Fair portion’ does not mean ‘all’.
In my opinion, this post presents my opinion.
‘Interesting’ in this context means ‘interesting’.

To this I’d add: ratio of GW fans who bought GW2 to GW fans still playing GW2. No way to figure this out, though it’s an interesting thought.