Guild Wars 2

i sort of get that.

i would use the word Sterile

Yeah, mimizu is on the right track with sterile. And I agree OP. Specifics and Statistics aside. While there a lot of things to do in the game, they always end in the same thing. Are you having fun, or getting loot? I think WvW is the only dynamic ever changing aspect of the game. You can have some really good fights that diversify themselves from the previous one, and you could never see the same sort of fights, zergs, defends again as long as you play WvW. But the dungeon runs…speed run past things, to boss…pop timewarp, dps down, dodge things done. World bosses…dps dodge things done. Living Story: Follow the leader, dps dodge things done. I could go off exploring and I do find little interesting things. But then I also find myself alone in zones. I dont like that…so I gravitate toward where other people are(dungeons, LA, Living Story, WvW).

Its mundane, run of the mill, same old same old. WvW offers the only unique experience in the game, at least for me.

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in. Maybe you just need a new bar… the one I’m in keeps adding new items to the menu, new beer to the tap and the patrons are as raucous and fun loving as ever.

I understand, but GW2 is not a vocation. A game is only going to be able to offer you so much, even if it is constantly updated. Once you utterly exhaust a specific item of entertainment you are meant to move on, or enjoy it more sparingly. The time you want to spend in any given game is going to be finite, it could be a week, it could be a lifetime, but it will come to an end! Moving on is fine (er, as is dying).

It’s part of the natural order. For many others, new or old, your exhaustion is your concern, and that’s why posts like this are often attacked or criticized. Tired of the same beer? Start tasting new ones

VOLKON.1290:

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in. Maybe you just need a new bar… the one I’m in keeps adding new items to the menu, new beer to the tap and the patrons are as raucous and fun loving as ever.

Would you say the glass is the same?
:)

VOLKON.1290:

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in.

GW2 makes you feel like a Lazy Overweight Henpecked Opportunistic Alcoholic?

VOLKON.1290:

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in. Maybe you just need a new bar… the one I’m in keeps adding new items to the menu, new beer to the tap and the patrons are as raucous and fun loving as ever.

I can see where you are coming from, and many people seem to agree with you. I don’t think the content coming out now is bad exactly, it just isn’t very satisfying. I don’t feel that the two experiences are mutually exclusive. Would you really be upset if the content added was a bit more meaty and a bit less achievement focused?

How about stop going to the pub everyday and drink something else. Orange juice, milk, water.

Maybe then you will start to appreciate and miss the old taste of beer.

Or in other words, why don’t you take a break from GW2 rather than burn yourself out. You are spoiled in GW2, you are just too deep into it to realize it.

Cornellious.1435:

VOLKON.1290:

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in. Maybe you just need a new bar… the one I’m in keeps adding new items to the menu, new beer to the tap and the patrons are as raucous and fun loving as ever.

I can see where you are coming from, and many people seem to agree with you. I don’t think the content coming out now is bad exactly, it just isn’t very satisfying. I don’t feel that the two experiences are mutually exclusive. Would you really be upset if the content added was a bit more meaty and a bit less achievement focused?

Different people find different things satisfying. Give me a big bowl of fresh chopped salad drizzled with olive oil, lemon juice and a little garlic salt and fresh ground pepper and I’m quite satisfied, even without the “meat” others may want.

Of course… now I’m hungry.

dace.8019:

I understand, but GW2 is not a vocation. A game is only going to be able to offer you so much, even if it is constantly updated. Once you utterly exhaust a specific item of entertainment you are meant to move on, or enjoy it more sparingly. The time you want to spend in any given game is going to be finite, it could be a week, it could be a lifetime, but it will come to an end! Moving on is fine (er, as is dying).

It’s part of the natural order. For many others, new or old, your exhaustion is your concern, and that’s why posts like this are often attacked or criticized. Tired of the same beer? Start tasting new ones

Unfortunately I already play sparingly, and increasingly so, which is sort of my point. From the similar posts that pop up I think its evident that a decent amount of people agree. It isn’t burn out for me precisely. When I read about a new patch or new content rarely does it seem interesting enough to dust off the game and log in for it. I am not convinced that you would not like the quality of content that I would be interested in.

Yeah
The game hasnt really added anything major new content in a long while and that’s what we need, a big content patch (like a new raid tier patch in wow) in guild wars 2
We the players need that every now and then so we don’t come to the point where we are now – repeating things we have already done so many times bores us easily.

We need fresh new content and lots of it and more frequently.

LOVE the analogy. Totally get that.

Maybe the problem isn’t the bar though. Its the same bar with the same drinks, but you literally went there for every chance you got, you ordered many of the same drinks over and over and the same folks came to hang out with you every day. Even the greatest things are bound to get old if you depend on them too much.

BUT THEN… you have bar hoppers. They keep it fresh by bouncing between MANY bars, enjoying each for its unique eccentricities and distinctive flavors… meeting many new people in many new areas and new interests/events to keep things interesting.

So.. my friend… its time for you to learn the nomadic lifestyle of the game hopper. Find a few that you can call “home” and bounce between them as each starts getting a little dry. Set goals in each of them and try not to focus on just one. GW2 is the casual gamers paradise… if for not all the hardcores trying to somehow make it their lives. Try not to depend too much on one and live the age old adage that ‘variety is the spice of life’

Guardian.5142:

LOVE the analogy. Totally get that.

Maybe the problem isn’t the bar though. Its the same bar with the same drinks, but you literally went there for every chance you got, you ordered many of the same drinks over and over and the same folks came to hang out with you every day. Even the greatest things are bound to get old if you depend on them too much.

BUT THEN… you have bar hoppers. They keep it fresh by bouncing between MANY bars, enjoying each for its unique eccentricities and distinctive flavors… meeting many new people in many new areas and new interests/events to keep things interesting.

So.. my friend… its time for you to learn the nomadic lifestyle of the game hopper. Find a few that you can call “home” and bounce between them as each starts getting a little dry. Set goals in each of them and try not to focus on just one. GW2 is the casual gamers paradise… if for not all the hardcores trying to somehow make it their lives. Try not to depend too much on one and live the age old adage that ‘variety is the spice of life’

I go to many bars, but what I really want is to have some good reasons to come back to this one =).

I will try to be as objective I can about this, to maybe give some high-level specifics about OP’s post.

What is it that makes players want to play?

If this game was based around gear progression, or skill progression, or high leveling curve, then you would always be thinking about your next thing. It would be what drives you to play the game, like many other mmos and rpgs have. That would be the central spark that gives you that hit of endorphins to keep playing.

But this game is a guild wars game, and it’s not supposed to be about that stuff. It’s supposed to be about fun and flat leveling, and cosmetics and pvp and exploration.

But these things were not implemented well enough to encourage players to keep playing. The exploration was very nice since the world is well done and beautiful art design, but once you’ve seen it once then there’s little reason to see it again. The flat leveling is nice, but then it doesn’t function as a “spark” any more. The cosmetics may tickle some players, but compared to other mmos it’s nothing too special, so we might say this was a “weak spark” depending on the player. The spvp is very nice for a while but the singular game mode gets very tiresome after a while. Many people like WvW but personally it just seems like a game of “who has more players in an area” which is very boring in my book.

So what is left? Where is the spark to keep playing this game? I don’t see it anywhere, and I think it comes down to one single topic: combat

When thinking of GW1 and what made me play that game so much, I can safely say it was the combat and its related aspects. I spent hours pouring over the skill lists and trying new builds all the time. I would get crushed by an enemy mob in pve that was using heavy hexes so I would go back to town and rethink how many and which hex removal skills would be best, maybe consider using some interrupts to relieve some pressure. How many different ways there were to experience the same content by trying wildly different builds. That was GW1’s spark. Its finite content could be endlessly replayed and experienced differently every time with new and different skills and strategies and approaches. Its pvp was also amazing (better than its pve even) with dominant metas giving way to new counters all the time (though let’s be honest it wasn’t perfect).

That was what it meant to be a Guild Wars game. A game that didn’t rely on taking advantage of players’ dependency on drip-fed power progression systems like so many drug addicts needing their fix; it was a game that respected players and their time, and knew that what should be fun is the game’s core combat and skill systems.

And now we come back to GW2, where the skill system has been radically altered and diminished, we are locked into weapon skill choices, elite skills are often on minute long cooldowns with frankly boring effects, many traits are boring/borderline useless, skill effectiveness is tied to stats which are tied to gear which makes changing specs a pain, if not costly and clutters up the inventory, enemies no longer use the same skills players have and instead use generic attacks with high hitpoints and poor ai… I can go on (really) but my point is that the one thing Guild Wars was supposed to do well, it doesn’t. The only redeeming qualities are maybe cast while moving and dodge. These are, to put it lightly, not enough.

TL;DR The main spark that Guild Wars relied on to keep players playing isn’t made well enough.

Just wanted to post again to summarize my main point.

Very simply: Guild Wars 2 combat (including skill selection and enemy ai) is very lacking. If this were another game with other systems to keep player involvement we could overlook it. But it’s not, and this problem becomes obvious to all players once they unlock most of their skills and realize “that’s it…?”.

Cornellious.1435:

Posts in the same theme of this one are fairly common on these forums, however they generally get caught up in the specifics. This generally leads to people coming to defend GW2 by attacking each specific detail without really understanding the author’s point of view. With this post I hope to ( by analogy ) describe the deep feeling of dissatisfaction that I, and I think many others, have with the game.

I started playing this game during the open beta weekends, and I was enormously excited about the game. On release myself and about twelve real life friends joined the game. For a couple months everything seemed great. We had a decent list of in game friends, we had a dungeon running guild that was doing well. People were having fun, exploring, and doing new dungeons.

Then people started to leave, over the next couple of months my friends list had dried up, and of the twelve people who started with me only one of them was still around. I don’t believe it was any one thing that drove people out. People would log in, and you would ask them what they wanted to do; they wouldn’t have a clear answer. “We could run a dungeon I guess” they would say halfheartedly, only we had all run the dungeons many times, and had acquired all the gear we really wanted.

As I stated in my opening paragraph, I would like to leave out the specifics and try to get to heart of my feelings with the game. To get to the heart of things I would like to compare GW2 to a local pub.

Imagine you find a nice local pub near you. The beer is strong, delicious, and satisfying; the tables, floor, and bar are a beautiful weathered hardwood. The shelf behind the bar is filled with quality spirits, some you’ve never even heard of, but all taste great. The floor is dusty, and the air is filled with laughter; the place feels like home.

Over time you start noticing a change coming over the bar. Every time you come back the beer is just a little bit weaker, and just a little more expensive. Every time you look at the shelf of spirits, the selection appears less varied, and more generic. There are less people around, and you don’t recognize many of them, but they seem to be happy. Maybe you are just imagining things.

Unfortunately things keep going the same way, you start wondering if there is any beer left in the water you are drinking. The spirits available are all generic name brand, and cheap; all of them are hidden under the bar. The bar food tastes like it came out of a package. You look around and wonder if the people there are drinking the same thing you are. Some of them look satisfied, many of them are staring blankly into their watery half filled mug. Few of them are talking to anyone, the bar itself still looks as good as it always did, but somehow it now feels cold, and uninviting.

Is what we have really what we actually want? Is the direction the game has been going something you would like to see on into the future?

I feel that if the beer was stronger and the spirits more varied, the people who have stayed will continue to stay, they may even be happier than before. The people that have long since left might return. Arenanet, please try to find the soul of the game again, the game is too beautiful to be treated as harshly as it has this past year. It feels like GW2 is in a race, and 10 meters from the finish line it sat down and started building sand castles. Some of the sand castles are pretty impressive, but the finish line is right there and the other racers are catching up. You can build more sand castles later.

This is an artwork, with a lot of passion mixed in the paint. I love it and yes, I feel completely the same. I can’t bring myself to log in anymore, because I fear I’ll find something worse each time: less people on the guild roster each time; more people stacked at LA bank each time; more zergs in WvW each time; awkward memories from the time the game still felt like a 2nd home and all my friends were with me.
It’s saddening

Cornellious.1435:

Guardian.5142:

LOVE the analogy. Totally get that.

Maybe the problem isn’t the bar though. Its the same bar with the same drinks, but you literally went there for every chance you got, you ordered many of the same drinks over and over and the same folks came to hang out with you every day. Even the greatest things are bound to get old if you depend on them too much.

BUT THEN… you have bar hoppers. They keep it fresh by bouncing between MANY bars, enjoying each for its unique eccentricities and distinctive flavors… meeting many new people in many new areas and new interests/events to keep things interesting.

So.. my friend… its time for you to learn the nomadic lifestyle of the game hopper. Find a few that you can call “home” and bounce between them as each starts getting a little dry. Set goals in each of them and try not to focus on just one. GW2 is the casual gamers paradise… if for not all the hardcores trying to somehow make it their lives. Try not to depend too much on one and live the age old adage that ‘variety is the spice of life’

I go to many bars, but what I really want is to have some good reasons to come back to this one =).

I know, brother… I know.

I’ve been trying to put my finger on this for some time. I’ve even gone so far as to say that GW2 had no soul.

The pub hasn’t changed. The beer is still the same. The people in the pub — some are still there, some left, some new ones came in. If I were to guess, I’d venture that what’s different is that the pub never had sufficient features to stimulate the brains of the customers over time, and the glossy new features the pub adds too seldom require much thought to master.

I don’t know guys if you know TotalBiscuit, but during one of his videos about WoW he said something very true about WoW and Guild Wars 2 (he did not mention GW2, but opinion can be related to current GW2 development).

He said that people would rather like a single, big patch with tons of new content, balance changes etc, etc than couple smaller ones, because if Blizzard said for example : “Yea, for new patch we introduce one revmap of dungeon and some mage changes!” most of the people would be like “Meh, not really worth it”. But what they actually do is that they release big patch every couple months, and they say for example: “Hey, in this patch we’d like you to experience 2 new dungeons, a new raid, zone and questline + balance patch and new PvP Arena!” people are like “Wow, finally, new content! I want to see it!”. You see, Blizz introduces both PvE and PvP in every major patch. It’s like a circle: Despite new Arena Seasons, new gear tier, after finishing content from one patch (Keep in mind that during that time majority of players WILL try everything introduced in patch, both PvE and PvP, just to do something in the game), what takes some time due to collecting gear, Arena Seasons etc., people know that in maybe a week or month there will be another content patch and they can experience so much new stuff. So even if they play less for one or two weeks, they come back after.

Now Guild Wars 2. As OP said, there was a lot of stuff at the start of the game. Dungeons to do, storyline, puzzles, some PvP and WvWvW. But then, what? No major thing ANet can brag about. No new content, some holiday patches and poor LS stuff, everything in shadow, without any marketing. No commercials, no articles on how’s going in Tyria, no talks about whole LS idea! So what does average Joe thinks? “Meh, no new stuff, not worth time, I’ll wait for some more content”. And he waits. Till present day.

I can’t say that there’s no progress. ANet is slowly starting to promote their game with cutscenes and all that stuff, but that’s not enough! Average Joe still waits for some new dungeons, zones, armors and more exciting patch notes than increasing some trait damage from 5% to 10%. It’s too spreaded out. We need bigger, rarer patches. One, big patch every 4 months. Including tons of stuff, even timegated, just to keep people on. Add fun stuff, new armors, major class overhauls and start PTR to keep playerbase excited about upcoming changes, content and prevent bugs.
And we need an expansion soon.

That’s said, ANet is slowly floating to right direction, but I can see that the horizon is still far, far away

EDIT: Just to add something up. People are still waiting for response from ArenaNet about support to machinima in GW2. You know, free camera, more commands, all that stuff. It’s like one of the best ways to promote the game. I, for instance, got interested in WoW through machinima. Not any commercial.
Open up the game for videomakers, machinima and you’ll see much better movies, editing, fun stuff, parodies… Just a lot of videos, slowly flooding through the Internet and seeking attention.

You know, I have this buddy, he jumps into games, goes crazy for them, throwing adjectives around like they were dandruff and he hadnt showered in a week, and he loved this game. Loved it!

For a month.

The idea of “You dont have to commit to a raid” is a 2 edged sword. The idea of “you can grind out these purples, but they are only slightly better than your regular weps…” double edged blade.

There is no true PVE end game here. Seeing how high your agony can go? OK I guess.

Heres my question for you, the general “You”:

Have you done something in this game in PVE that you are proud of. Do you have “Remember that time” Stories? I really dont. Now, admittedly I was a hardcore raid healer from way back, and mostly did dungeons and world events in PVE, not a huge amount of fractals. Some.

From fractals I got “Much dolphin so whoa” And “Not this kitten trap one”. As memories.

3 manning dungeons was cool. But thats self inflicted pain right? Thats not something you are supposed to do. Heck theres plenty of places where they force you to have 5 players.

Only in WvW do I make lasting memories in GW2 and thats completely due to the rest of the players helping to generate some content.

This game in my opinion needs. NEEDS a grinders paradise at this point. I want to do something hard that gives me something substantially better than I previously had.

And no, grinding 10 million scraps of silk does not count.

milo.6942:

When thinking of GW1 and what made me play that game so much, I can safely say it was the combat and its related aspects. I spent hours pouring over the skill lists and trying new builds all the time. I would get crushed by an enemy mob in pve that was using heavy hexes so I would go back to town and rethink how many and which hex removal skills would be best, maybe consider using some interrupts to relieve some pressure. How many different ways there were to experience the same content by trying wildly different builds. That was GW1’s spark. Its finite content could be endlessly replayed and experienced differently every time with new and different skills and strategies and approaches. Its pvp was also amazing (better than its pve even) with dominant metas giving way to new counters all the time (though let’s be honest it wasn’t perfect).

You have detailed here one of my major disappointments. The skill and build system lacks a lot of meaningful player choice. Many builds are basically derived logically from whatever weapon you choose ( or are forced into by the lack of other viable weapons ). I also feel the hand of the developer fairly transparently in utility choice. By that I mean builds seem to have certain utilities that were created specifically for certain builds. Very rarely do you discover an ability that has interesting synergies or uses in situations that you hadn’t already considered.

Many patches even seem to limit your choices while also somehow missing the underlying balance issues. Many of the classes are still at the same or close to the power they were at release relative to the other classes. Some classes could really use some more spice added to them to freshen gameplay and to revitalize the meta game.

Elite skills are particularly uninteresting and useless. Having cooldowns far longer than their power would suggest. I know many classes that would be greatly improved by slotting another utility skill instead. I am still hopeful that Arenanet may be able to resolve many of these issues, but I don’t think its going to happen if they continue along the same path as they’ve been retreading so far.

Easterbunny.6170:

……
And no, grinding 10 million scraps of silk does not count.

Funny you should mention that as with the release of the ascended gear I’ve pretty much stopped WvW and have started to park my chars at spots to farm wood and ore, though at some point I expect I’ll not be able to keep up with the game and just move on.

TitaniumDog.3054:

Easterbunny.6170:

……
And no, grinding 10 million scraps of silk does not count.

Funny you should mention that as with the release of the ascended gear I’ve pretty much stopped WvW and have started to park my chars at spots to farm wood and ore, though at some point I expect I’ll not be able to keep up with the game and just move on.

Just salvage the loot you get from bags in WvW… plenty of wood and ore to be had there.

I agree with OPs statement ~60%.
The beer (read game ;p) was made with a lot of love and hard work and it shows in all its features, however there is a limit as to how many people can drink from the same bottle before everyone who tastes it is left unsatisfied in the end and unsatisfied not because the beer was bad, on the contrary, it was actually pretty good but you could not get enough of it.

Trying to innovate is always risky.

GW2 is a skill based game, whatever opinion one may have for the combat system( from “its great” to “it sucks”) I think most will agree that it is centered around skill, timing, reflex and coordination ergo it has a steep learning curve (in some areas more than in others). So what happens when a game has multiple gameplay modes? Well, sadly it segregates the community and thats the one thing that th devs wanted to avoid with this game.
- I level my character(s) and explore – the world is beautiful and feels alive.
- I do dungeons – they are tons of fun and challenging.
- I do Fractals – love the random elements and puzzle dynamics.
- I do WvW – its truly dynamic and intense.
- I do sPvP – nothing beats beating others in a fair fight.
And each of these has a learning curve of its own. When I first level it will not teach me how to properly handle my hero in a dungeon environment and even if I master Arah and finally learn how to solo that boss that even a team of 5 will wipe (the fact that one can do this is an achivement in its own) I will still feel like a lost lamb in a lion’s den when I enter sPvP. This is not a bad thing, however what I find lacking is content or incentive in each that would make one truly commit.
- Open world – ok, I got 100% and have seen mostly everything. What do I do now? The next living story update will only add/change some things in one or two zones that I can experience in the period of 2 hours.
- Dungeons – ok so, I’m dungeon master now. I’ll do CoE a couple of more times for the armor.
- Fractals – lvl 50 yey! and I even got the fractal wep I wanted as a lucky drop now I can…amm…hm
- WvW – Hey, we’re up againts those guys again lets go show them this time who’s boss! Hm they seem a bit fewer this time around.
- sPvP – for something that the game seems balanced around it sure did lack some key features at start and still lacks real polish.
Every aspect of the game is good, great even … but my beer buddies went to that other bar to drink some different beer and I can’t go to that table of whiskey enthusiasts, they do seem like they’re having fun but I don’t know what the hell they are talking about. Good thing that from time to time someone comes along to drink with me and we even talk with the bartender about his plans to make even better and greater beer that will not only make my friends come back but make them stay for longer this time!
I just wish he’d stop leaving that one window open, doesn’t he know it’s winter outside…

ShadowAgent.6053:

<Snippity snip> See above ^^

Thanks for running with the analogy . You bring up an interesting point about the skill needed for the game. Much of the game does require a fair amount of skill, and of fairly varying level, IMHO. However I think it is the wrong type of skill needed to make the game as interesting as it could be for the long term.

I would posit that GW2 requires too much emphasis on execution based skill, and too little on skill based on depth. HERE is an interesting video that I think demonstrates what each types are extremely well. You see the most depth in sPvP or perhaps roaming/organized guild groups in WvW, but it could be so much better.

@Cornellious

Thanks for the video ! It is very informative and I can see how it really relates to GW2 as even fights like Liadri and Tequatl are more about execution than depth. That is not to say that they lack depth ofc.
But the main point I was trying to illustrate was not the presence or lack of execution/depth in the combat system, but rather the space which we are given to work with it as in pure quantaty. MMOs are social experiences (hence why I think your analogy is very appropriate :P) and the first most crutial element that will make me play one is not any gameplay feature, its having friends to play with. In most MMOs, that I personally am familiar with, we have PVE and we have PVP. In GW those are divided even further. Their overall quantity is superior but its lacking if you take each individual element as it is. Most people once they find an area they enjoy they will stick with it as long as they have some sense of progression in it (horizontally or vertically makes little difference in the grand scheme imho). I still have friends that play but while I mainly enjoy PVE they do WvW so even if they are online I’m puging and my other pve friends left because they’ve seen 99% of pve content and don’t feel like farming for some rarer skins. In MMOs with vertical progression the content is gated via gear check you can’t go to Z without doing A B C but in GW2 you can do A-Z in no particular order and that sense of progression is lost, people get bored and leave.
I really wan’t to avoid talking in specifics but I’ll do it just once. This is purely theoretical ofc. Its a goal step by step in reverse:
I want a legendary.
I need this token from Teq, which I can get only if I have this item that I get after completing all Arah paths, but I can’t get in Arah unless I’ve resqued this NPC that is held captive in CM, but I can’t infiltrate CM unless I have a full set of whispers/vigil/priory armor, but for that I etc… (from a pve player’s perspetive). Yes, the content is gated but freedom is a double edged sword (someone wrote something similar above)
TLDR: It’s not the type of combat system that is importan but the !meaningful! room we’re given to work with it in the game and how it connects between the different gameplay elements. I just consider this to be exeptionally important for GW2’s combat.
All is my personal opinion!

Cornellious.1435:

Would you really be upset if the content added was a bit more meaty

I’d actually be quite concerned if my beer was meaty.

Cornellious.1435:

VOLKON.1290:

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in. Maybe you just need a new bar… the one I’m in keeps adding new items to the menu, new beer to the tap and the patrons are as raucous and fun loving as ever.

I can see where you are coming from, and many people seem to agree with you. I don’t think the content coming out now is bad exactly, it just isn’t very satisfying. I don’t feel that the two experiences are mutually exclusive. Would you really be upset if the content added was a bit more meaty and a bit less achievement focused?

See, I like achievement focused content. I played Guild Wars 1 that way as well…so did a lot of people. I suspect those who played Guild Wars 1 for achievements feel more at home here than those who say PvPed.

But I think the new content is getting better, not worse. I thought the tower part of the living story was the best yet. I liked the Tower…I liked the new enemy mechanics. And I particularly like that the living story changed a zone. Waypoints vanished, new bosses appeared, a new chest (which gives pretty cool stuff) and even the hearts in the zone have changed. Hell, even neighboring zones have changed. Seeing the changes shows me the potential of what’s possible in future living stories.

So what you want that has more meat, might very well be of less interest to me. I don’t want overly challenging content, or a raid, or even particularly dungeons.

I came to this game to play in the open world, because Rift failed so dismally on that account…at least when played.

The open world is where I enjoy myself most.

No opinion here but that analogy was awesome.

Another whining thread to me. Go play another game if you feel bored then come back if you feel to…

I dont feel the analogy is accurate. The beer wasnt watered down, is exactly as it was before same brands and all. Every couple of weeks they get new brands too some of the brands they keep some they stop providing after serving them for 2 weeks. During the past year they’ve been also gradually bring in spirits people want the spirits but they’re way overpriced and a lot of people arent willing to work all the overtime required to afford the spirits.

Thing is if you’re in it for the beer you dont need to worry about the spirits but I dont know maybe because in other bars spirits are all the rage and they will not allow you to sample some of the beer without taking some spirits first or because people arent able to enjoy their beer without having their spirits as well. What ever the reason they stop seeing the delicious beer, the beautiful weathered hardwood, the floor etc… all they see are the spirits and how much work they have to do in order to enjoy them. Other patrons who still enjoy the beer and bar environment will naturally point out to them that same old bar they used to love is still there just like it was before. The spirits arent there for us beer drinkers they’re meant for people who like that stuff but alas their opinion is dismissed because unfortunately those old clients cannot see any of that anymore, they can only see the spirits and they dont like what they see.

Warhammer online (even though I believe it died) was actually pretty awesome. I’d love to see a few ideas from there be combined with the dynamic events and combat system we have here.
Nice on the analogy.

Well I’m still hoping something will come out of the CDI. Chris and co are really doing a great job in my opinion and I don’t think I ever saw a similar interaction between players and developers. Now it’s up to you ArenaNet

Csele.1647:

no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..

atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?

More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.

In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.

In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.

Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.

Cornellious.1435:

snip

That is a beautiful post if I’ve ever read one.

This thread makes me weep for the amount of empty defense on something that has so far been indefensible in this game.

There has been hardly any sense of community outside of a good guild since launch, and it’s only been magnified over time.

The game is effectively sterile as another poster put it.

Aeonblade.8709:

This thread makes me weep for the amount of empty defense on something that has so far been indefensible in this game.

There has been hardly any sense of community outside of a good guild since launch, and it’s only been magnified over time.

The game is effectively sterile as another poster put it.

I can assure you people on the other side of the fence are weeping too for having to defend what should need no defense. Take the sense of community. You said that doesnt exist outside of a good guild but then many of us have experience quite the opposite, people getting downed themselves trying to revive us during group events just to mention one. Never mind how many times you see someone in trouble and you go help them out. Not to mention the times you’re roaming alone and come across a champion and a player and you decide to take it on together and with some good support you manage to take him down even though technically it should require 5 people being a group event.

No sense of community is something I experienced years ago when I played Loong. One time I was walking around when I see this player running away with just a tiny bit of health left being chased by an open world mini boss. So I moved in to help him, took aggro kept fighting while the person I had just saved from certain death healed up and the moment I saw him coming back I started to move away to allow him to finish off the boss. Only the guy thought I just wanted to kill steal his boss and decided killing me was more important then finishing of his boss.

Granted Gw2 isnt perfect in this regard. If people depended more on each other like in some sandboxes of old we might have more community even though that makes it very solo hostile which the game is specifically designed to avoid. But sterile? far far from it. In other MMOs coming across other players in the open world that arent part of your guild is generally an annoyance. Here its always a pleasure. how is that a sterile community?

Galen Grey.4709:

Aeonblade.8709:

This thread makes me weep for the amount of empty defense on something that has so far been indefensible in this game.

There has been hardly any sense of community outside of a good guild since launch, and it’s only been magnified over time.

The game is effectively sterile as another poster put it.

I can assure you people on the other side of the fence are weeping too for having to defend what should need no defense. Take the sense of community. You said that doesnt exist outside of a good guild but then many of us have experience quite the opposite, people getting downed themselves trying to revive us during group events just to mention one. Never mind how many times you see someone in trouble and you go help them out. Not to mention the times you’re roaming alone and come across a champion and a player and you decide to take it on together and with some good support you manage to take him down even though technically it should require 5 people being a group event.

No sense of community is something I experienced years ago when I played Loong. One time I was walking around when I see this player running away with just a tiny bit of health left being chased by an open world mini boss. So I moved in to help him, took aggro kept fighting while the person I had just saved from certain death healed up and the moment I saw him coming back I started to move away to allow him to finish off the boss. Only the guy thought I just wanted to kill steal his boss and decided killing me was more important then finishing of his boss.

Granted Gw2 isnt perfect in this regard. If people depended more on each other like in some sandboxes of old we might have more community even though that makes it very solo hostile which the game is specifically designed to avoid. But sterile? far far from it. In other MMOs coming across other players in the open world that arent part of your guild is generally an annoyance. Here its always a pleasure. how is that a sterile community?

Read the OP’s post. It’s like a bar no one talks in. Yea there are people there, but no one is saying anything to each other.

If you find pleasure in silence throughout 90% of the game I’m not faulting that. To each their own. But every other MMO I have played had a community that made you feel larger than yourself or your guild.

Unless you plan on doing WvW or Champ Trains, prepare yourself for the deafening silence. By making the game completely “solo friendly” they removed any need to communicate, which has made the game feel cold and unforgiving.

Aeonblade.8709:

Read the OP’s post. It’s like a bar no one talks in. Yea there are people there, but no one is saying anything to each other.

If you find pleasure in silence throughout 90% of the game I’m not faulting that. To each their own. But every other MMO I have played had a community that made you feel larger than yourself or your guild.

Unless you plan on doing WvW or Champ Trains, prepare yourself for the deafening silence. By making the game completely “solo friendly” they removed any need to communicate, which has made the game feel cold and unforgiving.

This is something I never understood, why do people need a gun to their head to do things they enjoy? I am on the unofficial roleplaying server and people talk to each other all the time. We got nothing different then the other servers.

Also which MMOs would that be? cause unless we’re talking an old school MMO like everquest or vanguard were venturing out solo generally meant loosing everything you owned things have always been much worst in other MMOs I have played really. In Most MMO all open world quests are soloable so why would you team up? Not just that but they got kill stealing and mob tagging so if you see people in an area you walk the other side because you’ll get your kills faster. If the game is grinding and it requires a ton of kills then you party up and never say a word anyway since well you just party up to finish the kills and leave the party the second you got your kills. If you’re nice you’ll ask the other person how many kills they still need and thank them for the party before leaving. etc.. none of that really makes for better community.

If you’re speaking about old school hardcore MMOs then you’re right but again everything you did there you could still do here you just dont have the gun to your head so to speak like you had in those games. They chose accessibility and that means some of the elements that forced you to team up are out of the question. Its a design choice. But I dont see how if people choose to not communicate the developers are to blame just cause they didnt make it so they’re forced to communicate. Going with OPs analogy its like saying the bar has no beer just because I went in sat down at a table a no one came to take my order. Some bars do that sure but in orders you go to the bar tender and you buy your beer there. Just cause they dont have people taking orders at tables though doesnt mean they dont sell beer.

Aeonblade.8709:

Read the OP’s post. It’s like a bar no one talks in. Yea there are people there, but no one is saying anything to each other.

If you find pleasure in silence throughout 90% of the game I’m not faulting that. To each their own. But every other MMO I have played had a community that made you feel larger than yourself or your guild.

Unless you plan on doing WvW or Champ Trains, prepare yourself for the deafening silence. By making the game completely “solo friendly” they removed any need to communicate, which has made the game feel cold and unforgiving.

Ah yes… Barrens chat. Well… that was a community claiming to be larger at least. I don’t really recall any games where the low level PvE zones really went all that far to promote a sense of community… just a bunch of people leveling alts and passing through, maybe trying to get a group to take out some larger mini-boss before someone else came along and stole the kill.

Oh, and you think WvW is silent? Really? No… really? I’m guessing you’re one of the ones that refuse to get on TS and then wonder why you can’t hear anyone talking. It’s really pretty simple. The combat system in GW2, especially in an area like WvW, doesn’t work well with “type to chat”. You ever try to fight something and chat at the same time? Doesn’t work. What does work is voice chats like TeamSpeak. Or, to enhance the bar analogy, it’s not that the patrons in the bar aren’t talking, it’s that you need to take out the earplugs and actually allow yourself to listen.

VOLKON.1290:

Aeonblade.8709:

Read the OP’s post. It’s like a bar no one talks in. Yea there are people there, but no one is saying anything to each other.

If you find pleasure in silence throughout 90% of the game I’m not faulting that. To each their own. But every other MMO I have played had a community that made you feel larger than yourself or your guild.

Unless you plan on doing WvW or Champ Trains, prepare yourself for the deafening silence. By making the game completely “solo friendly” they removed any need to communicate, which has made the game feel cold and unforgiving.

Ah yes… Barrens chat. Well… that was a community claiming to be larger at least. I don’t really recall any games where the low level PvE zones really went all that far to promote a sense of community… just a bunch of people leveling alts and passing through, maybe trying to get a group to take out some larger mini-boss before someone else came along and stole the kill.

Oh, and you think WvW is silent? Really? No… really? I’m guessing you’re one of the ones that refuse to get on TS and then wonder why you can’t hear anyone talking. It’s really pretty simple. The combat system in GW2, especially in an area like WvW, doesn’t work well with “type to chat”. You ever try to fight something and chat at the same time? Doesn’t work. What does work is voice chats like TeamSpeak. Or, to enhance the bar analogy, it’s not that the patrons in the bar aren’t talking, it’s that you need to take out the earplugs and actually allow yourself to listen.

I said WvW is one of the only areas of the game that isn’t silent. And yes I use TS. Can you read? WvW is one of the only areas of the game that are enjoyable because it does have people communicating.

RIP Understanding the English language, Jan 3. 2014. You will be missed.

Aeonblade.8709:

I said WvW is one of the only areas of the game that isn’t silent. And yes I use TS. Can you read? WvW is one of the only areas of the game that are enjoyable because it does have people communicating.

RIP Understanding the English language, Jan 3. 2014. You will be missed.

Yes, I can read.

I can also mis-read. Sorry ’bout that. The rest stands valid however.

Anyways, I think the last posts are straying off the real topic (though silent chats are a part of it). The problem I think the OP is talking about is;
- No longer are the zones filled with players excited to do this and that
- No longer are guilds from launch still active (I passed on to my 4th guild by now, and I think of myself as a rather loyal person)
- No longer does the world itself seem promising, all it’s secrets are gone and the shine has gone with the wind

Basically: desolate.

Sirendor.1394:

Anyways, I think the last posts are straying off the real topic (though silent chats are a part of it). The problem I think the OP is talking about is;
- No longer are the zones filled with players excited to do this and that
- No longer are guilds from launch still active (I passed on to my 4th guild by now, and I think of myself as a rather loyal person)
- No longer does the world itself seem promising, all it’s secrets are gone and the shine has gone with the wind

Basically: desolate.

To an extent this is true as well as unavoidable. The problem with this post is the solution to the problem is being labeled as the cause of the problem. Thing is Gw2 is really a different beast then most other MMOs. In Most MMOs you’re meant to do a zone once then move on until you get to end game. Such games dont really have to tackle issues such as zones becoming stale because their content expires the moment you outlevel them. Granted might level an alt and get to do it again but in most cases if you’re repeating a zone due to an alt you’re going to repeat months after you did it the first time and only for a couple of weeks.

In Gw2 the story is different we live in these zones and most people are creatures of habbit and even though they have a large number of zones to choose from they’ll always fall back to the same profitable zone.

LS was the solution to that problem. New content happening in different zones to ensure zones remain fresh to a degree.

As for guilds that depends. I am pretty loyal guild member too. My original guild did die too to be honest so after a while I ended up joining a 2nd guild. The 2nd guild remained active to this day with 30-35 people online at one time generally. my first guild is kinda coming alive again (guess I didnt wait long enough), still its lower then the 10-15 people we had online to start with but its not sitting close to 5 so thats not too bad.

People leave, come back, new people join, take breaks etc… Its kind of hard to measure something like this. All I know is I see plenty of people around all the time.

Galen Grey.4709:

I dont feel the analogy is accurate. The beer wasnt watered down, is exactly as it was before same brands and all. Every couple of weeks they get new brands too some of the brands they keep some they stop providing after serving them for 2 weeks. During the past year they’ve been also gradually bring in spirits people want the spirits but they’re way overpriced and a lot of people arent willing to work all the overtime required to afford the spirits.

Thing is if you’re in it for the beer you dont need to worry about the spirits but I dont know maybe because in other bars spirits are all the rage and they will not allow you to sample some of the beer without taking some spirits first or because people arent able to enjoy their beer without having their spirits as well. What ever the reason they stop seeing the delicious beer, the beautiful weathered hardwood, the floor etc… all they see are the spirits and how much work they have to do in order to enjoy them. Other patrons who still enjoy the beer and bar environment will naturally point out to them that same old bar they used to love is still there just like it was before. The spirits arent there for us beer drinkers they’re meant for people who like that stuff but alas their opinion is dismissed because unfortunately those old clients cannot see any of that anymore, they can only see the spirits and they dont like what they see.

Except that in any pub the hardwood floors, etc. lose their luster over time. Things get old, and are no longer attractive once you’ve seen them hundreds of times, especially those people who spend all of their free time in the pub. If the owner does not make an effort to refurbish the trappings in the pub, of course it will get less attractive. In the pub in question, the emphasis seems to be mostly on the “spirit of the fortnight.” and very little seems to be done to keep the basic pub “fresh and new.”

All analogies break down sooner or later. Online games don’t deteriorate the way a real building does. However, let’s step aside from the analogy for a moment. Virtual entertainment does lose its allure over time if the user is being asked to do the same thing over and over, and if the only brain stimulation the game ever provided was seeing “something new and different.”

Vayne.8563:

Csele.1647:

no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..

atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?

More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.

In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.

In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.

Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.

I don’t know why anyone would argue for an achievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.

The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Csele.1647:

(…)

(…)

I don’t know why anyone would argue for an chievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.

The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.

Imagine a tablet game with grind skin stuff and a gemstore but with 20gb and players run it on a PC, that gw2 in a nutshell.

dace.8019:

I understand, but GW2 is not a vocation. A game is only going to be able to offer you so much, even if it is constantly updated. Once you utterly exhaust a specific item of entertainment you are meant to move on, or enjoy it more sparingly. The time you want to spend in any given game is going to be finite, it could be a week, it could be a lifetime, but it will come to an end! Moving on is fine (er, as is dying).

It’s part of the natural order. For many others, new or old, your exhaustion is your concern, and that’s why posts like this are often attacked or criticized. Tired of the same beer? Start tasting new ones

Nope you’re wrong, games can be played for as long as you want, as long as you feel improvement, therefor there needs to be a challange in the game, which there isnt. I’ve played a shooter for 7 years, i’ve played gw1 for 5 years, i’ve played league of legends for 3 years. GW2 is just like an empty world, and you can run around in it, but there’s actually nothing to do. It’s like real life without jobs, jobs are needed to feel important and for a feel of improvement to yourself,, yes you could just hang with friends all the time, but what.. u gonna smoke weed all day, that’s gonna get depressing and people would just killl themselfs. No goal = no reason to play the game,, that’s how it goes.

Btw Anet, people actually know that grind isnt a goal (ascended), its a waste of time

GW made sense because everything was instances but GW2 is really kitten ing me off. Sure, one can argue that GW movement was limited; we’ve come a long way, etc. but this game just feels like a step backwards and that’s after being reminded that it’s essentially a new group of developers.

eg. I’m in Straits of Devastation and I literally can’t find 1 person to help move the group events/events along. Additionally, trying lfg system everytime and not a single person joins or wants to group up. That being said, I’m also in a guild with 300+ people and everyone is doing something different.

Another problem I have is with achievements. Achievements and titles, which is what I loved most about GW, are extremely monotonous and non-rewarding.

Why the kittens is this open world when it feels like I’m in an instance every single time?

Why in gods name would they separate open world pvp and open world pve when it’s what people crave; being part of a community; being part of a group; having a common goal? I think that possibly many players were buying GW2 because it was going to be a better open world than WOW but walked into a grindy, solo-fest.

I’ve only been playing a few months time and sure, GW2 got a few things done that can revolutionize mmorpgs, but now the next mmorpg to capitalize will generate extremely ridiculous amounts of players.