Guild Wars 2

TheFamster.7806:

I still don’t understand why the change was made in first place. Instead of exploring for traits, its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience. I stopped making new alts because of the gold+skill pts+ amount of time, and when new people come in, I feel like I have to tell them to buy gems first rather than play the game. I don’t see any joy of exploring when I have to complete the same map 3 times in a row to get a trait that I can’t even properly utilize until I’m level 80 with full exotic gears. I’m starting to think developers are just trolling us and telling us to get a job and then buy gold rather than farming for them

I’ve recently come back to the game, and its killed my desire to level a character past 36.(where you’d need to go start hunting trait skills).

I’ve tried getting one of the end traits on my guardian, 3 days and I’ve not seen the event I need…..

This is possibly the worst system I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Its grindy, annoying, boring, and builds resentment.

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

when is the Marjory’s Dagger coming back i would like to invest some gems into them?

33 pages still nada from AN .. hmmmmmmm

I also want to say (having gone and started collecting traits) that it’s very annoying that there are event chains that STILL bug out almost 2 years later preventing progress on traits. And you can’t swap servers anymore to fix it.

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

That would almost make sense if they didn’t use skill points as a way to gate it. Because no matter how much you spend, you’re not buying skill points. You still have to play.

So your theory doesn’t really hold together.

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

That would almost make sense if they didn’t use skill points as a way to gate it. Because no matter how much you spend, you’re not buying skill points. You still have to play.

So your theory doesn’t really hold together.

Well, obviously you are not aware that you can get skill points by buying BL chests and keys.

Guessing that after an appropriate interval, you will be able to buy them directly for jewels.

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

That would almost make sense if they didn’t use skill points as a way to gate it. Because no matter how much you spend, you’re not buying skill points. You still have to play.

So your theory doesn’t really hold together.

Well, obviously you are not aware that you can get skill points by buying BL chests and keys.

Guessing that after an appropriate interval, you will be able to buy them directly for jewels.

I’m all for bashing on this system, but this is some tin foil hat level conspiracy theorizing. Using the fact that you have the chance to get skill scrolls from black lion chests as evidence that this system is designed to milk people for money is really weak. If anything, they’re losing money on extra character slots that people might otherwise buy. Nobody seriously buys keys in the hopes of getting a skill point out of them. That’s just absurd.

Guhracie.3419:

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

That would almost make sense if they didn’t use skill points as a way to gate it. Because no matter how much you spend, you’re not buying skill points. You still have to play.

So your theory doesn’t really hold together.

Well, obviously you are not aware that you can get skill points by buying BL chests and keys.

Guessing that after an appropriate interval, you will be able to buy them directly for jewels.

I’m all for bashing on this system, but this is some tin foil hat level conspiracy theorizing. Using the fact that you have the chance to get skill scrolls from black lion chests as evidence that this system is designed to milk people for money is really weak. If anything, they’re losing money on extra character slots that people might otherwise buy. Nobody seriously buys keys in the hopes of getting a skill point out of them. That’s just absurd.

Lol, agreed. To call this a conspiracy gives way too much credit to the people that made one of the most idiotic business decisions in the history of internet gaming. As a matter of fact it is a mistake of Mythic proportions.

Guhracie.3419:

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

That would almost make sense if they didn’t use skill points as a way to gate it. Because no matter how much you spend, you’re not buying skill points. You still have to play.

So your theory doesn’t really hold together.

Well, obviously you are not aware that you can get skill points by buying BL chests and keys.

Guessing that after an appropriate interval, you will be able to buy them directly for jewels.

I’m all for bashing on this system, but this is some tin foil hat level conspiracy theorizing. Using the fact that you have the chance to get skill scrolls from black lion chests as evidence that this system is designed to milk people for money is really weak. If anything, they’re losing money on extra character slots that people might otherwise buy. Nobody seriously buys keys in the hopes of getting a skill point out of them. That’s just absurd.

And buying keys for any reason is absurd.

So is buying Keys to open Chests to get 10 Ticket scraps at the low chance of getting anything other than more of that useless Taffy and more speed boosters .

Guhracie.3419:

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

That would almost make sense if they didn’t use skill points as a way to gate it. Because no matter how much you spend, you’re not buying skill points. You still have to play.

So your theory doesn’t really hold together.

Well, obviously you are not aware that you can get skill points by buying BL chests and keys.

Guessing that after an appropriate interval, you will be able to buy them directly for jewels.

I’m all for bashing on this system, but this is some tin foil hat level conspiracy theorizing. Using the fact that you have the chance to get skill scrolls from black lion chests as evidence that this system is designed to milk people for money is really weak. If anything, they’re losing money on extra character slots that people might otherwise buy. Nobody seriously buys keys in the hopes of getting a skill point out of them. That’s just absurd.

People that really want chests farm keys anyway.

Illysharia.7286:

TheFamster.7806:

its more like buy gems then convert them to gold to unlock them for better and faster experience.

Bingo. That’s why the system was designed, and why it’s not being changed..and why Colin isn’t piping in to say anything. This is what happens when your monetizer comes from Nexon.

so the same greedy thing cryptic did with champions online, make exclusive stuff only available through the store to make your gear better…….but then with traits.
and IMO a horrible system, it makes the game P2W.

So… I’ve been inactive for about 10 month and returned back to the game several days ago. I have an 80 level character with unlocked traits (except for 5 grandmaster traits), but I wanted to start a new one, to get fresh experience.

I’ve created ranger (and I like this class so far), but then I stumbled across new traits system and was completely shocked by it. I remember how fun it was to plan and build my first character when I bought the game, but now it’s gone for good. I’m just level 20 with my ranger, but I already feel a bit bored because I know that no matter what, I will not be able to customize my character in a long time. Not to mention that it will cost lot of gold/SP to buy traits.
And by the way, I don’t have enough gold to buy all the traits even though I have 80 level character already. What about new players?

I don’t feel like playing my necro at the moment, but now I neither feel like playing my ranger as well. Other words, I will leave the game until some changes will be made, and I feel like there are other players who left or going to leave the game for the same reason. Though seeing how this thread is 4 month old I have little hope for any changes.

Garm.9750:

…
I’ve created ranger (and I like this class so far), but then I stumbled across new traits system and was completely shocked by it. I remember how fun it was to plan and build my first character when I bought the game, but now it’s gone for good. I’m just level 20 with my ranger, but I already feel a bit bored because I know that no matter what, I will not be able to customize my character in a long time.
…

Leveling used to be fun. Now it is not much fun, even for characters that were started before April 15 and have all their traits unlocked. I’ve got 10 characters, all pre-April 15. Only 3 were below 80 when the trait system was changed. They were in their 20’s and 30’s and are still only in their high 60’s and mid 70’s. I’ve been playing less than I used to.

In the old system getting to place a trait point every level may not have done much as far as character stats but it was a psychological reward for reaching the next level. And picking a new trait every 5 levels synchronized with the crafting levels for armor and equipment giving an extra boost of fun picking out traits and stuff for your new improved character.

As far as having to unlock traits with this new screwed up system – no thank you. A good idea poorly implemented.

I think in all honesty, from a new player prospective, it hinders gameplay and provides less understanding of the class during the leveling process.

I, for example am trying to level a thief. Suddenly the game feels much more lethargic and not having the ability to put points into traits, makes it extremely boring and fruitless in the early levels.

Till lvl 30, I can’t even augment my abilities to play better or to learn how things impact my gameplay in regards to reduced times/augmented abilities etc. Nothing.
And I’m sure it won’t get any better till I reach much much much higher levels.

As mentioned before, I’m a returning player and this is highly discouraging. What does it usually take for ANET developers to actually respond? I mean, with this sort of lack of feedback, I’m wondering why F2P games get a bad reputation.

It’s not like I’m not putting money into the game. Buying character slots and all do provide contribution to the game, but I’m not sure what kind of developer feedback ANET provides.

This is highly discouraging to see soo many people respond, and majority of them with very valid concerns, and still zero response from the Devs.

You can buy exp (skillpoints) by buying dungeons paths.

Lazuli.2098:

In the old system getting to place a trait point every level may not have done much as far as character stats but it was a psychological reward for reaching the next level. And picking a new trait every 5 levels synchronized with the crafting levels for armor and equipment giving an extra boost of fun picking out traits and stuff for your new improved character.

Please, Please Arenanet read the above statement carefully! This is what it was all about before April 15 and was so true.

The new unlock system for the traits is still in serious need of help.

As (very limited) examples of frustration, I have three friends who all took one look at the new trait system and flat-out declared they were never going to make a new alt. One of them had even been spending money on gems just for the purposes of making alts. All three were put off by the grind required; one had even returned from a six month hiatus to check out the new LS, and promptly went back into retirement because of the grind, which he loathes. They are average experience players, who have most of the professions, but not all, and so need more traits unlocked in order to experiment with builds. Their characters lack the skill points for a broad spread, but they lack the motivation as players to repeat the same content a second (or fifth) time. They have spent enough time in all game modes to know what they do or don’t find enjoyable and gain nothing from the prolonged process.

Another friend of ours started playing recently, and has been completely and totally overwhelmed by the new system. Because he is still perfecting his first toon, he constantly has to adjust his build, but lacks the playing skill or skill points to get the full set of traits so he can swap effectively, and lacks the experience to know what traits might actually be more effective and have better synergy. After reaching 80, he has also decided never to make a second character. Ever.

Two other friends have been searching for a new MMO, were ready to purchase GW2, but then after hearing from the rest of us about the severe level of grind and confusion for something that is a basic part of character function, both have decided not to purchase GW2 at all and wait for a new game to come out that doesn’t require the time dedication to gain core functionality.

I personally have made two alts since April. Both have what I know to be sub-optimal builds, but they don’t have the skill points necessary to purchase the traits that might make them more effective and frequently the events I need for unlock (I’m looking at you, Lord Ignius for Line 5, Trait VI) aren’t up when I’m actually playing. I would consider myself to be above average in experience, in that I can look at the locked traits and single out the 15 or so traits that I will feasibly ever use for a given profession, but only if I decide my build in advance and target those specific tasks.

TL;DR: The new system has been a major hindrance to starting players because of the general learning curve for the game and for average players because often the content is not rewarding the second time around. More experienced players can focus their trait acquisition more effectively, but these are generally not the players who need to encouraged into other game modes or required to explore the open world.

Sort of as a follow up to my previous post, I had an idea that might make the system a little better, without having to scrap the whole thing (a dev’s worst nightmare).

I want to unlock Line 4, Trait X on my new Ele, but that requires “The Source of Orr,” so almost 90 levels of personal story. I find the PS extremely boring after about level 40, nor do I want any of the traits that will unlock before “Source” so for me it feels like an incredible grind.

Thinking about this boring grind gave me an idea though. One way to open this up would be to remove the specific unlock tasks from specific traits and just make it so completing one of the six tasks for a given line allows you to unlock any trait in that line. The problem of build diversity still exists however.

To adjust for that, unlock all traits immediately, but allow a player access to only X amount of traits per tier based on the number of tasks completed AND ALSO allow the player to swap which traits they have access to on the fly.

Let’s say for example, that a level 80 toon has completed three Adept tasks, one Master task, and one Grandmaster task. They could have any three Adept traits unlocked, any one Master trait, and any one Grandmaster trait. They can swap which traits are unlocked on the fly, but may not have immediate access to more than that. A typical character would need only three Adept, two Master, and two Grandmaster tasks, assuming a 6/6/2 build. If this same typical player wanted to slot in an Adept trait at the Master or Grandmaster level, they would need to complete a fourth task to have access to four Adept traits at a time.

Unlocking additional “slots” by completing additional tasks then becomes a reward in convenience, since you don’t have to swap unlocked Traits constantly, but life is bearable without it.

This would make completing the personal story highly rewarding, as it would give three Adept unlocks, three Master unlocks, and a Grandmaster unlock.

I know the system sounds clunky and slow, but it would accommodate many of the problems players are having now.

It was mentioned before that, instead of specific tasks for specific unlocks (which are not conceptually related anyway, unlike the elite skills in GW1), finishing tasks could apply points to a trait pool that lets you unlock any traits you want.

This keeps the tasks but gives players the freedom to choose how they advance.

Just as an example:

Have three tiers of tasks to represent each tier of trait skills:
Adept skills cost 1 point. Adept tasks give 1 point. (Zone completion, is NOT a 1-point task, I’ll just say that now.) Master costs/gives 3, Grandmaster costs/gives 5.
This lets a player decide how many tasks they want to invest toward a skill, or if a player accidentally gets one, it’s a happy bonus, instead of a worthless trait he never had any intention of finishing.

Alternately, make the time/risk investment decide how many points it’s worth. Zone completion is huge and should be worth 3-5, regardless of zone level. Fighting off a champ, 1 point. Temple defense, 3-5 points. And so on.

The skill trainers can even be left in, exchanging trait points for 3 skill points and 50 silver each. Or, since the above is more fluid, it can become a larger resource sink at 4 skill points and 65 silver each. (Fiddlybit details, honestly, proof of concept is there.)

And please, for the love of all Tyria, make unlocks account wide. Having to do the same stuff over and over is boring, tedious, unfun, and not even cool bro. C’mon ANet, do something about this fiasco please.

First to say, i had 7×80 characters before update, and after i created and leveled 2 more.

At first i was annoyed with the whole unlock thing, cause u get to certain levels and u dont seem to progress much.

But after i gave up and really hunted some Traits, i ended up being very happy and satisfied. I got to know a few places, events, areas that otherwise i would never discover. And its very satisfying to do a “new” content u have not see and then being awarded with a certain kind of reward associated to that.

Suggestion: On future expand the system for New Skills, Armor Skins, Weapon Skins, Titles, Consumables.

Its very pleaseant to complete content and be awarded differently.

Peace

Ox See Sox.3687:

Suggestion: On future expand the system for New Skills, Armor Skins, Weapon Skins, Titles, Consumables.

This would have been loads better than forcing players to grind out traits through laborious and questionable objectives.

Wow just wow, still nada from Anet on this….. maybe because the Chinese MMO market LIKE grinding !

Dunno why they cannot have it and let us have old system back, ( with the respec option) after all, they have totally different servers / system after all . ( If WoW can separate that market from NA/ EU why can’t Anet? )

Ox See Sox.3687:

First to say, i had 7×80 characters before update, and after i created and leveled 2 more.

At first i was annoyed with the whole unlock thing, cause u get to certain levels and u dont seem to progress much.

But after i gave up and really hunted some Traits, i ended up being very happy and satisfied. I got to know a few places, events, areas that otherwise i would never discover. And its very satisfying to do a “new” content u have not see and then being awarded with a certain kind of reward associated to that.

Suggestion: On future expand the system for New Skills, Armor Skins, Weapon Skins, Titles, Consumables.

Its very pleaseant to complete content and be awarded differently.

Peace

What “new” content is there that you haven’t seen already besides the LS2 which has nothing to do with traits? For a new player I can understand that but not for someone who has multiple characters created after the change. Once you unlock all traits on 1 character you will see all the exact same “new” content on any following characters. The only way around that is to buy the traits or do extensive research and planning for a certain build and only get the traits you need for that build. So yes first time it might be fun for some.
I have 5 characters with 100% map completion created way before the evil patch. The first 2-3 weren’t bad but by the end of the 5th it was getting painful. I think for my next three characters it would have taken me over year(if done at all) as I just did not want to do it anymore. Luckily it was my choice when doing 100% map and I didn’t feel like I had to do it or do it in any particular order. So when I would start getting burnt out I would do something else until the time I was ready again.

Kohlteth.3715:

Wow just wow, still nada from Anet on this….. maybe because the Chinese MMO market LIKE grinding !

Dunno why they cannot have it and let us have old system back, ( with the respec option) after all, they have totally different servers / system after all . ( If WoW can separate that market from NA/ EU why can’t Anet? )

Like I mentioned in another post, Now that China is doing so well they can let it subsidize the US/UK servers. They don’t care about us anymore. From now on I would not expect anything except LS and gem store updates, not that its any different than before. With how well china is doing they can let US/UK servers run on life support and the mega server will make it look like everything is ok until the very end.

Been playing more and getting to understand the traits’ system.

As I see it, the idea behind doing something to get a trait isn’t bad. The problem is when you need to do stuff that isn’t solo-able. Sure, if you have a guild they can run you through it but if not you’re left at what chances you have for that event to be “up” and there are enough players in the area that want to do it.

Even bigger problem are the traits that require you to complet an instance. Again, with no guild you won’t be having an easy time getting it – especially not when you see tons of “5000AP lvl80” requirments at the PUG panel or worse – “xG per boss”. It’s ridiculous that to get an Adept trait you need to be at lvl cap with end-game equipment.

Furthermore, the silence from A.Net is… Well, bewildering, to say the least. After all, they (a representative anyway) started this thread for feedback, and given the amount of comments you’d think that some sort of replay was is order especially when so much players comment negetivley about the change.

On a plus side, I never played before the change, so at least I don’t miss how it was. Guess the joke’s on me :P

Eric.6109:

Been playing more and getting to understand the traits’ system.

As I see it, the idea behind doing something to get a trait isn’t bad. The problem is when you need to do stuff that isn’t solo-able. Sure, if you have a guild they can run you through it but if not you’re left at what chances you have for that event to be “up” and there are enough players in the area that want to do it.

Even bigger problem are the traits that require you to complet an instance. Again, with no guild you won’t be having an easy time getting it – especially not when you see tons of “5000AP lvl80” requirments at the PUG panel or worse – “xG per boss”. It’s ridiculous that to get an Adept trait you need to be at lvl cap with end-game equipment.

Furthermore, the silence from A.Net is… Well, bewildering, to say the least. After all, they (a representative anyway) started this thread for feedback, and given the amount of comments you’d think that some sort of replay was is order especially when so much players comment negetivley about the change.

On a plus side, I never played before the change, so at least I don’t miss how it was. Guess the joke’s on me :P

I think they created these threads knowing the feedback would be negative. That way they could use them as an excuse to merge every new thread into one so they don’t cover the entire forum. I also think they never planned on replying from the beginning.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I think they created these threads knowing the feedback would be negative. That way they could use them as an excuse to merge every new thread into one so they don’t cover the entire forum. I also think they never planned on replying from the beginning.

I agree with you. I don’t think that Anet really cares about its customers at all anymore except as people buying in the gem store.

Our opinions are all worthless now. This is why I have all but quit GW2.

OK, so Mid progress report then?

I have been working on my stripped down necro. For information sake, I spent down and separated the remaining money I had into a separate guild bank that this toon doesn’t access and keep a tally of the gold she’s earned so I can set her back to that when I play her. I also spent down a chunk of karma and donated/sold all of my low-mid level mats so I was starting clean on that front. I’m also trying to make it a point to read all the story and look at Vistas again and not just blitzing through the game in an attempt to get a new player experience. She only uses skill scrolls she earns and I am running her through the story at roughly appropriate levels. She is currently level 36, so thats 2 trait points. Instead of trying to spend any of my first 6 traits points on major traits I will be putting those into all of the minors.

So far the gameplay has not felt hard, at all. Now granted I am familiar with the class and the enemies (something I cannot unlearn) so that might be making it easier, but I am also challenging myself to play this necro differently than my level 80. I’m also actually having fun exploring again and finding some areas I’d forgotten about or even missed with my other play-throughs (and I did actually miss some places off the beaten path). I have an idea from how I’ve been playing her with how I will ultimately want to do my traits, but for now I am trying to go full organic with them until level 80. I’m not saying this new system is OK. Far from it, but I have found that without the “burden” of thinking about those traits as I go from zone to zone I am now being forced to get really good with my skills if I want to survive. I’m also finding myself experimenting a bit more with weapon combos since I’m not choosing those based on the traits I’d picked. I’ll have another update come level 60.

*(Note: I would NOT want to do this with more than one toon though, as it would be monotonous and WAY too expensive come level 80 and the eventual trait buy time comes around, which it will.)

Ever since the new patch I’ve been trying to play the way anet “intended” to play. Even before the patch I did wvw, pvp, pve and map completion just for the sheer joy of it, so I thought this new trait patch was going to make me enjoy even more.
Turns out that even with 10 map completion, world bosses, and other events which accumulate to 20+ hours easily, I’ve only unlocked 5. Now out of those traits most of them were completely unrelated to the build/playstyle I wanted.

And as I kept “hunting” for traits, the game became more of a chore instead of relaxing casual game anet advertised as. Even after all the exploring, boss hunting, and many more, I couldn’t stand how I cannot still get all the traits even when my character reached max level and thus was not accepted in dungeons/fractals/wvw.

The new trait hunt seriously impaired my ability to enjoy the game and turned it into individual grind. Since I had some gold/skill point scrolls, I was able to “cheat” my way into buying traits for about 80~90 golds+ 100 something skill points, but I have no idea how new players can able to do that.

This patch is utter disaster to both new and old players, but since it does not directly contribute to gem sales, it will be forgotten. New players will learn to either buy gems to convert to ingame currency for smoother gameplay (dungeon path buying), or endure mindless trait hunting until they quit or burn out.

Since Pookie’s updating, why not?

Ran around for Warband Wednesday with my buddy. Content isn’t even a challenge with two people in tandem. Still not feeling like I’m approaching a build at level 46. There’s barely anything to “explore”, except the vast, vast expanses of Lornar’s Pass. We’re in a 25-40 zone because completion is required for a trait one of us wants, instead of being in a level-appropriate zone.

Did I mention that Lornar’s Pass isn’t all that interesting? And it’s huge? And uninteresting? This is by far the biggest slough of the character’s career, and the reward isn’t even for me. (I kinda owe my friend back for dragging him through Harathi 9 levels too early. :P)

Meanwhile, I took my Mesmer to Lyssa, sat and waited for a defense event, called it, and spent cash/points to get the trait instead. I’m glad the option’s there, because 3 gold is much easier and less time intensive than waiting at a boring spot for a fight I don’t want to do.

And, eureka-facepalm moment.

We have skill point events. These events we can start at any time, can be participated by others, and give us what we need to progress.

Why are there not triggerable trait point locations?! They could even start event chains for some of the late-game challenges. If the event chain fails, NPC comes back (maybe after a short cooldown or ‘fleeing’ the area on foot back to the spawn point), and whoever’s around can start it again. Just treat it like any other skill challenge to where the creatures don’t give loot, and we’re golden.

Peeps? Devs? Thoughts?

Was about to reinstall, come back, and level anew.

No thanks, Anet.

DrMcAwEsOmE.2839:

Was about to reinstall, come back, and level anew.

No thanks, Anet.

Don’t believe everything you read on the forums. It’s not nearly as bad as people are making out. I’ve leveled a character and unlocked all the traits I need since the update. It is longer if you don’t buy the traits. But it’s not that much longer.

Easiest solution:
1. Account bound
2. Level appropriate
3. With trait acquire so slow, eliminate tier unlocks.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Vayne.8563:

DrMcAwEsOmE.2839:

Was about to reinstall, come back, and level anew.

No thanks, Anet.

Don’t believe everything you read on the forums. It’s not nearly as bad as people are making out. I’ve leveled a character and unlocked all the traits I need since the update. It is longer if you don’t buy the traits. But it’s not that much longer.

Liar. You have to go out of your way to get most of the traits man, don’t deny it. Therein lies the problem, if you wanted to level your character solely in WvW, you can’t because most of the traits will be locked by the time you hit level 80, and I don’t know about you, but I don’t have 80+ gold or 200+ skill scrolls to use. I doubt most people do.

Right if you’re a WvWer’ this is true, but every poll we’ve ever seen shows this game has far more PvEer’s. And as a PvE’er I didn’t particularly have to go out of my way. So calling me a liar makes you one. You shouldn’t throw words around if you can’t back them up.

Getting most of the traits in PvE is relatively easy…there are a handful of exceptions.

Vayne.8563:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Vayne.8563:

DrMcAwEsOmE.2839:

Was about to reinstall, come back, and level anew.

No thanks, Anet.

Don’t believe everything you read on the forums. It’s not nearly as bad as people are making out. I’ve leveled a character and unlocked all the traits I need since the update. It is longer if you don’t buy the traits. But it’s not that much longer.

Liar. You have to go out of your way to get most of the traits man, don’t deny it. Therein lies the problem, if you wanted to level your character solely in WvW, you can’t because most of the traits will be locked by the time you hit level 80, and I don’t know about you, but I don’t have 80+ gold or 200+ skill scrolls to use. I doubt most people do.

Right if you’re a WvWer’ this is true, but every poll we’ve ever seen shows this game has far more PvEer’s. And as a PvE’er I didn’t particularly have to go out of my way. So calling me a liar makes you one. You shouldn’t throw words around if you can’t back them up.

Getting most of the traits in PvE is relatively easy…there are a handful of exceptions.

getting them should be free, it’s that simple.
you’re practically chasing traits just so you are powerful enough to get more traits, something we never had a problem with in GW1.
they said it them self, they wanted to make the trait system closer to the GW1 attribute system, instead they made a chase to find expensive insignia’s and runes and never take to consider that not everyone is capable on buying them.
so what you get is a huge grind for improvements and an even bigger grind to get gold for the more annoying traits.

conclusion, traits should be available from the start, i might understand some of the grandmaster ones but adept and master traits should be there from point one.

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Vayne.8563:

DrMcAwEsOmE.2839:

Was about to reinstall, come back, and level anew.

No thanks, Anet.

Don’t believe everything you read on the forums. It’s not nearly as bad as people are making out. I’ve leveled a character and unlocked all the traits I need since the update. It is longer if you don’t buy the traits. But it’s not that much longer.

Liar. You have to go out of your way to get most of the traits man, don’t deny it. Therein lies the problem, if you wanted to level your character solely in WvW, you can’t because most of the traits will be locked by the time you hit level 80, and I don’t know about you, but I don’t have 80+ gold or 200+ skill scrolls to use. I doubt most people do.

Right if you’re a WvWer’ this is true, but every poll we’ve ever seen shows this game has far more PvEer’s. And as a PvE’er I didn’t particularly have to go out of my way. So calling me a liar makes you one. You shouldn’t throw words around if you can’t back them up.

Getting most of the traits in PvE is relatively easy…there are a handful of exceptions.

getting them should be free, it’s that simple.
you’re practically chasing traits just so you are powerful enough to get more traits, something we never had a problem with in GW1.
they said it them self, they wanted to make the trait system closer to the GW1 attribute system, instead they made a chase to find expensive insignia’s and runes and never take to consider that not everyone is capable on buying them.
so what you get is a huge grind for improvements and an even bigger grind to get gold for the more annoying traits.

conclusion, traits should be available from the start, i might understand some of the grandmaster ones but adept and master traits should be there from point one.

They should be free it’s that simple? Is this what you’re saying. Okay let me try.

They should not be free it’s that simple. Wow, it’s that easy huh?

People have come onto these forums in the past and said they feel no real progression in GW 2 and they called up examples of how we used to skill hunt in Guild Wars 1 to have to unlock skills. Players asked for more to do that related acquisition of power with playing your toon. Anet made this change, at least in part based on those requests.

Now, they put in the option to purchase this stuff for people who disagree.

I don’t actually think the new system if perfect. I’d like to see multiple options available to unlock each skill and I’d like to see it begin earlier. But does that mean that I think everything should be free? No. I don’t think that. And there are people who agree.

There needs to be more to do while leveling than just leveling, because it adds another dimension to leveling. It provides some goals/roadmap. If it’s not your first character, getting skill points and gold to unlock stuff is easy enough.

Vayne.8563:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Vayne.8563:

DrMcAwEsOmE.2839:

Was about to reinstall, come back, and level anew.

No thanks, Anet.

Don’t believe everything you read on the forums. It’s not nearly as bad as people are making out. I’ve leveled a character and unlocked all the traits I need since the update. It is longer if you don’t buy the traits. But it’s not that much longer.

Liar. You have to go out of your way to get most of the traits man, don’t deny it. Therein lies the problem, if you wanted to level your character solely in WvW, you can’t because most of the traits will be locked by the time you hit level 80, and I don’t know about you, but I don’t have 80+ gold or 200+ skill scrolls to use. I doubt most people do.

Right if you’re a WvWer’ this is true, but every poll we’ve ever seen shows this game has far more PvEer’s. And as a PvE’er I didn’t particularly have to go out of my way. So calling me a liar makes you one. You shouldn’t throw words around if you can’t back them up.

Getting most of the traits in PvE is relatively easy…there are a handful of exceptions.

A handful of exceptions? I’d say the handful of exceptions are the relatively easy unlocks. Relative to level, relative to things I like to do in PvE, and relative to pre-patch traits.

This system (the unlocks, not the level changes, of course) should’ve been rolled out as an opt-in beta system, in stages, and everyone else should be, by default, considered grandfathered in. The first stage should have been the new grandmaster traits on April 15th. Next should have been the rest of the grandmaster traits. Then they should have taken all the feedback under consideration, made tweaks to the trait tasks, and then rolled out the master tier stuff. Wash, rinse, repeat.

They should have added more desirable traits or skills and locked those behind map completion etc. instead of moving the goalposts after all this time.

I’ve read about people claiming they’ve reached level 80 by playing the way most fun to them and having zero traits when they ding 80. That’s not right.

Also in GW if I recall I had a full skill bar even without my elite in Pre-Searing or shortly after just from doing low level quests. I didn’t have a quest telling me “To unlock Animate Bone Fiends you must kill your Doppleganger in the Crystal Desert” in Pre-Searing.

Paul.4081:

They should have added more desirable traits or skills and locked those behind map completion etc. instead of moving the goalposts after all this time.

I’ve read about people claiming they’ve reached level 80 by playing the way most fun to them and having zero traits when they ding 80. That’s not right.

Also in GW if I recall I had a full skill bar even without my elite in Pre-Searing or shortly after just from doing low level quests. I didn’t have a quest telling me “To unlock Animate Bone Fiends you must kill your Doppleganger in the Crystal Desert” in Pre-Searing.

Well there were no “utility skill slots” in GW1. You had 8 slots in which to equip skills and could literally put anything you wanted in them, so long as you were only using one elite. Each character class also had approximately 90 skills to pick from over all. So creating a dynamic build was much more involved and took a bit more intelligence than it does today. No skills attached to your weapons. The only skills in GW1 that required you to kill anything was the elites, which were carried by bosses throughout the maps.

Personally I think the unlocks are too limiting in early game.When I leveled my pre patch lvl 30 thief through personal story/map completion after the patch I enjoyed experimenting with traits and the changes made to the system felt good. I recently made a post patch necromancer and hit lvl 60 and other than a stumbling across a few traits I’ve not actively sought traits or really ever opened my trait page as the number of locked traits feels overwhelming.

Problems
- Some trait unlocks tasks feel disproportionate to what you get (map completion in a to low or too high lvl map)
-UI is too cluttered to look at what needs to be unlocked
- Limited experimentation specifically in early game
- Points to unlock the traits feel like they are randomly given to the player (milestones are at odd numbers and caused me to gloss over earning them)

Suggestions
- Have a new map marker to indicate trait challenges (Less burden the player to find them)
-faster earning/unlocking pace (better to find out early what doesn’t work for you rather than wait till 80 when its harder to change your gear)

I leveled a character with the new system just to see how it felt and I really, really didn’t like it. Some were fun and felt appropriate (Provernic Crypt) but many just felt kind of grindy. I like 100%ing zones and do so regularly, but it was a slog doing it for traits. Killing bosses for traits also felt super clunky, because if the boss isn’t up you need to wait around for sometimes quite extended periods of time, particularly when bosses come at the end of long event chains that can fail (like the imp lord quest chain in the southern part of Lornar’s Pass that starts at the lake fetching dwarven artifacts).
The wvw traits were even more awful, as hunting them down requires being in the right place at the right time and often as the right color in wvw. And the Overgrown Grub may as well just be a no-go. Maguuma used to do it ironically, but even Maguuma got tired of grub stomping.
Honestly, in the end it all came down to a simple time-benefit analysis. I could spend half an hour in Lornar’s Pass bringing an event chain to completion (with at least one step that can fail) or I can run a ten minute dungeon and make more than enough money to buy the trait outright. It’s faster, gives more return, and is far less frustrating due to a greater control over circumstances. The few traits with mini-dungeons or hidden chests attached to them were great because they didn’t rely on being in the right place in the right time. The rest? Not so much.

Please make trait acquisition more straightforward by attaching traits to controllable circumstances. That would go a long way to making this system less of a roadblock while still encouraging exploration. Add named veteran mobs around chests if you have to to satisfy the combat requirement, but please, no mobs tied to events that respawn rarely.

So I decided to give it another try and do some PvP instead of leveling and stuff.
Well guess what, you need to unlock grandmaster traits even within sPvP. Now that’s a total idiocy, you can’t do things like that. The best part of GW2 was that I could go PvP at any time I wanted. Now I can’t, because only effective condition removal for the ranger is “survival of the fittest”, which is locked GM trait and to unlock it I have to either grind gold and SP, or level to 74 lvl to find the chest in the ship of sorrows.

To all people who are saying that this system is fine… Have you even tried it? It’s always bad when you are forced to do something. There are 5×13 traits per class, to unlock them you’ll need to spend around 60 hours or something. That’s the time it takes to level character in skyrim to level 50, and guess what, skyrim have overall better content and it doesn’t feel like a chore.

Okay, I’ve made a Ranger to see if this is as bad as everyone says. I have set ‘newb rules’ – only pickup drops/vendor purchases for gear, not taking anything from bank or using the TP except to sell, and no bears!

Anyone want to chat/play together etc, the character name is Yoshiko Minamoto on EU Piken Square.

KStudios.2850:

Paul.4081:

They should have added more desirable traits or skills and locked those behind map completion etc. instead of moving the goalposts after all this time.

I’ve read about people claiming they’ve reached level 80 by playing the way most fun to them and having zero traits when they ding 80. That’s not right.

Also in GW if I recall I had a full skill bar even without my elite in Pre-Searing or shortly after just from doing low level quests. I didn’t have a quest telling me “To unlock Animate Bone Fiends you must kill your Doppleganger in the Crystal Desert” in Pre-Searing.

Well there were no “utility skill slots” in GW1. You had 8 slots in which to equip skills and could literally put anything you wanted in them, so long as you were only using one elite. Each character class also had approximately 90 skills to pick from over all. So creating a dynamic build was much more involved and took a bit more intelligence than it does today. No skills attached to your weapons. The only skills in GW1 that required you to kill anything was the elites, which were carried by bosses throughout the maps.

I have a hard time saying what I mean. What I meant with that post is that in GW, you had no empty slots, sure you could get elite skills but in the meantime you could fill with normal skills.

In GW2 you have nothing of this sort, you have an empty space as far as traits go unless you bow to ANet’s whim and go chasing traits! Not forgetting We’ve all tasted the good Trait system!

Does that make more sense?

Eg. “Congratulations, you levelled up, enjoy your nothing!”

JohnnyMadhouse.3724:

Please make trait acquisition more straightforward by attaching traits to controllable circumstances. That would go a long way to making this system less of a roadblock while still encouraging exploration. Add named veteran mobs around chests if you have to to satisfy the combat requirement, but please, no mobs tied to events that respawn rarely.

This.
I like the new system but waiting for hours for a meta to start so I can kill a boss
just to unlock a trait is not worth it,and I believe it goes against what this game is trying to achieve,which is not wasting a players time on the boring stuff.

I just bought this game a few months ago during the sale and luckily created my character before the huge update so mine came with all traits unlocked. I’ve been reading up on how I would actually go about unlocking these traits if I make another character now, and how unlocking traits used to work. Just reading about it is making me feel angry at the new trait system. The new trait system seems stupidly slow and the objectives to unlock even adept traits can sometimes be ridiculously high level. I don’t understand why somebody thought it would be a good idea to make the whole trait process slower, and therefore make the whole game progression feel less rewarding. I convinced my brother and a couple of friends to buy the game with me too and they all find it too boring because they don’t feel satisfied when they level up, and I’m starting to agree with them.

Fixing the forum.

Update on my second account: I broke down and did some map completion and exploration on my ranger. It did not endear the system to me. I have a warrior and an engineer on that account for roleplay purposes. I’m usually pretty happy to move on and start leveling, but I am feeling no drive whatsoever to do that. The leveling experience is fine for me, but knowing that I’ll have to unlock the traits has just sucked all the fun out of it.

I have 2 empty character slots on this account, and they’re going to stay empty for the foreseeable future. I feel extremely lucky that I have 11 level 80s grandfathered in to the new system.