Guild Wars 2

Illysharia.7286:

However, Isaiah, you need to also know that a lot of damage has been done by the 5 months of silence since the April Patch. I’ve made a couple of lengthy posts in this thread regarding my thoughts on that, so I will not reiterate what I wrote. However, I will say that there is a lot of trust to be earned by your players. Seriously, you guys did a good job of burning bridges of communication.

A tactful understatement, to say the least.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I guess you guys were really busy, such that you are only now reacting to this feedback/issues/etc.

suggestion: If the turnaround time from implementation to iteration, is this long, perhaps you need to have feedback come along earlier in the proccess. assuming yall discuss this and come up with a plan tommorrow, i assume it would be up to 4 months earliest before we could see a change. That would be a 8 month turn around on iteration, which i think, is probably too when you have something that has a big effect.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

HALLELUJAH PRAISE THE LORD! THANK YOU! I guess I might not have to quit after all

Are we going to get any changes in this feature pack or are they going to start discussing about the trait changes after this one?

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

Isaiah, for the love of Grenth, just revert the system back to what it was before and let us enjoy our alts. Once you get a better idea you can put that in. Just don’t let us rot with the current system any longer, because people are starting to quit because of it, and I also feel completely turned off by the thought of playing my alt at this moment, just because of the trait system.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

you know what, this type of answer is great. I don’t need specifics, and I don’t need nitty gritty, but to hear you say that there are some ways to improve this system is all I needed.

Thank you, seriously. I hope this is the beginning of my faith being restored in Anet!

ps- a few answers like this for about three other hot issues would be more than enough.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

By the Khan-Ur, finally we get a response. I think we’re all just glad to know you’re aware of our complaints, because as you can tell, the community has a lot of them.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

Thanks for the response, Isaiah. Good to know that you are looking into it. Can you keep us updated on any conclusions you may arrive at during those discussions?

The amount of salt in this thread would not dilute in the Pacific Ocean.

Guys, don’t expect anything more than refinements to the system, making for example the low tier traits more accessible by removing map completion for example on the list of the things used to unlock traits.

Otherwise – it’s a good system. Get over it.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I’ll give you my bullet points:

- Revert the trait system so it once again starts at level 10. One trait point every five levels
- Scrap the trait acquisition system EXCEPT for Grandmaster traits. Those should be hard to get. If you can’t scrap it completely on Adept and Master traits, at least tone down the difficulty on those tiers.

The current system leads to a lack of experimentation and fun where people will only cherry-pick the traits they absolutely want to use and forget about the rest. This is probably what you were not going for.

If he’s only saying this now then it’s surely not getting changed in the feature patch.

Traveller.7496:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I’ll give you my bullet points:

- Revert the trait system so it once again starts at level 10. One trait point every five levels
- Scrap the trait acquisition system EXCEPT for Grandmaster traits. Those should be hard to get. If you can’t scrap it completely on Adept and Master traits, at least tone down the difficulty on those tiers.

The current system leads to a lack of experimentation and fun where people will only cherry-pick the traits they absolutely want to use and forget about the rest. This is probably what you were not going for.

+1

Well it’s something isn’t it guys? ;)

" and discuss this system some more"

This still leaves many unanswered questions about the trait system. It’s nice that he and his team are looking into it, but it doesn’t answer if they’ve already made changes to the trait system, or if they are just beginning to look into it.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

Keep discussing, I was waiting for you to revert or fix the system at feature pack but now i got my answer. Gonna uninstal the game guys hope i never see you again in any game.

Takes a tag issue to go viral to get them to do anything…awesome.

Then it’s acknowledged like we haven’t been making suggestions since April?

Of course there’s some good suggestions, they can come from the player base as well as your own in house team.

Coldtart.4785:

If he’s only saying this now then it’s surely not getting changed in the feature patch.

Yeah the timing seems a little suspicious to me…I doubt they could review all the collected feedback (starting NOW?), decide on a change and then implement those changes that quickly.

Then again, if they can’t, oh man is it going to be bad when those patch notes come out September lol.

Am I reading this right or does this mean that they won’t change/fix the system with the September patch?

2 years after the game’s start, one would expect a plethora of new skills/traits rather than the very few we got some time ago ( not to mention obvious tweeks and fixes to the existing ones – it’s been 2 years… ).

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

• The good news: It only took 4 months to realize there’s a issue that should be discussed.
• The bad news: This is confirmation that they haven’t even started working on the problem. There’s no chance it’ll be fixed for the feature pack. (So expect a fix perhaps April 2015?)

I doubt anyone will be happy when the changes (if any) arrive 6 months from now in the next feature pack. Simply too slow.

Scientia.8924:

Coldtart.4785:

If he’s only saying this now then it’s surely not getting changed in the feature patch.

Yeah the timing seems a little suspicious to me…I doubt they could review all the collected feedback (starting NOW?), decide on a change and then implement those changes that quickly.

Then again, if they can’t, oh man is it going to be bad when those patch notes come out September lol.

It does very much seem like Izzy is trying to soften the impact of the inevitable sh**storm that’s going to hit them next week as they release news of the feature patch.
This doesn’t entirely remove the possibility that they’ve done SOMETHING to the trait system, but strongly suggests that any changes will be small (perhaps ‘insignificant’ is a more appropriate/realistic term).

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

Excellent news Isaiah! We look forward to hearing back from you

Thanks

Keep the good suggestions coming and bullet the ones that have already been mentioned.
When a thread reaches this size it is hard for people (including dev’s) to weed through all the complaints and find the constructive criticisms and suggestions. I too am guilty of complaining but now we have their ear so…
Thank you Isaiah for this acknowledgement.

Illysharia.7286:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I suppose there are a lot of people who are breathing a sigh of relief that, finally, a Dev has showed up. Hopefully, the changes needed will come to pass.

However, Isaiah, you need to also know that a lot of damage has been done by the 5 months of silence since the April Patch. I’ve made a couple of lengthy posts in this thread regarding my thoughts on that, so I will not reiterate what I wrote. However, I will say that there is a lot of trust to be earned by your players. Seriously, you guys did a good job of burning bridges of communication.

As have I. We’ve been waiting for too long honestly. We’re thankful for the post and the reply but honestly some of us are wondering if even the most simplest of requests are being heard, like Hobosacks for example.

Thank you Isaiah for your comment on here. i was just in another thread lamenting the lack of response. I’m glad to have been wrong…finally. So here’s the thing, as stated above, I think we should try to grab a quick overview from this thread for them (Devs) to look at as kind of our consolidated feedback on ways to hopefully improve this system. i’ll start with some that I can remember off the top of my head:

• Make more of the adept level traits available from level appropriate zones (30-40), while master level are in 50-70, and Grandmaster are in 80 zones
• Tie them to special quest lines from hearts on those maps after obtaining the hearts that are a bit harder to do so it feels like you have to earn it
• Make Grandmaster ones require completing a whole event chain
• Lower the gold cost for buying the traits, possibly eliminate the skill point cost or change that to a karma cost
• Make it so different classes have to do different things to earn a given trait. If possible make it a task meaningful with respect to the trait. (ie Beastmaster trait having something to do with taming a large Veteran animal and its pack or something, and a Stealth based one requiring you to do something stealthy).

I for one love the “forced” exploration. I do. I like having to go to areas i don’t frequent to get things, but the repetition, cost, and area level disparity seem to be the biggest gripes.

Here is a fun one, my account seems to be bugged in this new system:

All new characters of mine come already with all traits EXCEPT the new grandmaster level ones already unlocked, I’ve no clue how or why… but in speaking with others it appears to be an anomalous case. That said, if somebody is going to come fix me then they need to have a look at my account loot tables which I swear are worse than they should be (based on fellow party member’s drops).

Back on point though, I feel somewhat indifferent to the speed of trait points per level, while it is excessively annoying to have to level without access to things like passive trait-given movement speed increases, or that extra “umph” the old trait sytem gave, I definitely think having to go find the perks is something that should be saved for master/grandmaster tier trait perks only, since these currently are only available at level 80 anyway, and the rest only hurt people who are trying to get to 80 where they will be more welcome into the content that people actually gravitate to (imo).

Inimicus: Although I agree that those little extra oomphs are good to have while leveling, the fact that people exclude others for some of that content coughdungeonscough that is more of a player base issue rather than a game design issue. Are these new characters of yours all created after the patch? If so then I’d say be very happy with that bug and not talk about it, less they fix it for you.

Just my 2 coppers.

I’m not overly horrified like many players here over the changes made to the Trait system. I think the idea of earning the Traits as you go along is a GOOD idea….I just think it was implemented in a poor manner.

The main problem for a new player is not knowing WHAT Traits are worth the cost or effort to obtain. If I was an old player trying out a NEW class, I would be in the same boat (tho I would know where to go and obtain some other players ideas on the subject). Short of some sort of cumbersome “TRIAL TRAIT” item/booster kind of deal, I’m not sure how you even try to address this issue.

Next is the issue of EARNing the Traits. A few of the current ones are a tad easy, a few are just about right, but WAY too many of them are potentially difficult (if not nearly impossible) to obtain solo. I get the idea is to party up and do these together with other players and if this system had been in place from day one, I don’t think that would be a big deal. Organizing the treks out to remote locations to do a particular Event is just an awkward thing to request of Guildies much less total strangers in game. It can be done, but you immediately look at your gold and skill points and decide to just buy the Trait rather than bother.

And on that note, we need to address the cost. Adept is frankly cheap, but the Skill Point cost at that stage of your Characters development can be “difficult”. Master Traits can start to hurt your pocketbook and while you likely have all the Utility skills you want by then, the Skill Points can still be an issue. Grandmaster Triat costs just HURT a player that has just reached 80 and needs to “gear up”.

I’m not sure what you can do about the gold cost (other than reduce it), but the Skill Points can be mitigated by scrolls. This is likely a no brainer for long time players but new players likely don’t have a stack or two of these in their bank yet. A method to obtain scrolls via an NPC might be a possible solution (this would also help with those that would like to transfer skill points from one character to another IF one method cost a SP and some other currency).

Ok…maybe this is more like 2 silver worth of rambling on the matter.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Just my 2 coppers.

I’m not overly horrified like many players here over the changes made to the Trait system. I think the idea of earning the Traits as you go along is a GOOD idea….I just think it was implemented in a poor manner.

Yes. Very much yes. Tasks aren’t balanced for completion time or difficulty, nor for the levels in which traits open. Pushing progression back to levels 30-80 instead of 15-80 just makes leveling a slough.

While I got a few by accident while going for 100% zone completion (ugh), I still had to stumble on them if I didn’t specifically want them. I feel it would be better to have challenge markers much like skill points, and if the player succeeds at the task, he gets the trait.

Rauderi.8706:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Just my 2 coppers.

I’m not overly horrified like many players here over the changes made to the Trait system. I think the idea of earning the Traits as you go along is a GOOD idea….I just think it was implemented in a poor manner.

Yes. Very much yes. Tasks aren’t balanced for completion time or difficulty, nor for the levels in which traits open. Pushing progression back to levels 30-80 instead of 15-80 just makes leveling a slough.

While I got a few by accident while going for 100% zone completion (ugh), I still had to stumble on them if I didn’t specifically want them. I feel it would be better to have challenge markers much like skill points, and if the player succeeds at the task, he gets the trait.

Come to think of it, maybe one of the things that can be implemented is if you click on a certain trait, that it drops a purple marker on your map for where it is, so it is easier to find/get to as well. This is obviously more for new players, but even for older players that don’t frequent certain maps.

Ouroboros.5076:

The amount of salt in this thread would not dilute in the Pacific Ocean.

Guys, don’t expect anything more than refinements to the system, making for example the low tier traits more accessible by removing map completion for example on the list of the things used to unlock traits.

Otherwise – it’s a good system. Get over it.

Not really. With this new system you don’t get traits until level 30 and you only get 1 every 6 levels. With the old system you started earning points at level 10 and could unlock a trait every 5 levels. That means by the time you hit level 30 with the old system you’d already have 4 traits. And with the old system you unlocked Master and Grandmaster tier at levels 40 and 60, while in the new system you unlock them at 60 and 80. Also with the old system you got more of a sense of progress since you got 1 trait point at every level. Even with better thought out trait unlock requirements, the new system is terribly slow and hampers the fun of leveling up.

Just to let you know, the reason Isaiah Cartwright came in is because enough people hollered at Chris Whiteside to say something in this thread.

After enough of us kept at him in the Communications thread, he said this:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Kohlteth.3715:

nvm, you posted after, did you visit the Trait thread so you were not derailing this one ?

Izzy is thinking about it right now.

Thanks for reminding me.

Chris

The above comment came because he was hammered about it after saying this:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

GuzziHero.2467:

A question for you, Chris.

Can you confirm whether or not there has been any discussion about player feedback about…

- the new trait system
- the megaserver
- roleplaying and what seems to be Anets attempt to destroy it?

Cheers!

Hi Guzzi,

I don’t want to want to derail the thread, but yes absolutely we have discussed player feedback about these areas of the game.

But seriously let’s not derail the thread.

Chris

To me it seems that the new trait system was made principally to slow down character progression, and this was probably done because there has been a delay in content development and they want to keep the players busy.

It’s pure speculation, obviously.

Illysharia.7286:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I suppose there are a lot of people who are breathing a sigh of relief that, finally, a Dev has showed up. Hopefully, the changes needed will come to pass.

Simply messaging a mod to ask if someone from Anet could look into this topic did miracles

I appreciate that shes forwarding this big problem to the intern staff of Anet so hopefully a nice solution can be found.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

FINALLY!!!!!!!!

took a little too long…..but see, was that hard?

thank you, there are some fantastic ideas in this thread..maybe you could talk to us about what definitely cannot be done/implemented?

but anyway, thank you for finally responding.

Inimicus.7162:

All new characters of mine come already with all traits EXCEPT the new grandmaster level ones already unlocked, I’ve no clue how or why… but in speaking with others it appears to be an anomalous case. That said, if somebody is going to come fix me then they need to have a look at my account loot tables which I swear are worse than they should be (based on fellow party member’s drops).

any alt created before the patched released had all traits unlocked except the new grandmaster traits.

To be clear: I;ve not had any problems with the pushing back how quickly we get trait points or even how many we get. I’ve actually had fun just learning the best way to play different utilities with my weapons skills and experimenting on that front. I’ve also not had any problems leveling or running in level appropriate areas. (In fact i’m now just doing some other maps on my newbie necro and finding it fairly easy to survive, so thats not even a problem. The biggest problems are still with trait unlocking and the places you have to be to even get those traits. What a player may find themselves left with is a hodge podge build that doesn’t have any synergy with their skills or utilities, leaving them feeling like they might be missing something, because they are.

I don t want to sound rude but probably they will “think about it”, but nothing will be done, just like the fractal level reset. I think that the last answer about fractals was that someone was thinking about it. Just like what they are doing now, too much thinking but 0 actions. I hope I m wrong.

I have given the new trait system a lot of thought. My radical opinion is that the system itself isn’t inherently terrible, it is the execution of the system that is flawed. That is to say the system doesn’t need to be scrapped, or reverted or rolled back or anything that drastic. I believe that with the proper tweaks, adjustments and alterations the new system could be quite successful.

First pros of the new system.

• Free out of combat repecs
• 14 points instead of 70

Cons.

• The odd progression math. 1 point every 6 levels than 2 points for some more levels than the last 2 points at 80. This is clunky.
• Tasks required to gain the trait do not line up with the level of the trait.
• All tasks are not created equal so to speak. Kill this mob is very different than complete this zone for example.
• Once access is gained it is likely that a player could have no traits available to select.

My suggestions to keep the pros and negate some of the cons would be as follows.

• Start gaining traits at level 15 and acquire 1 point every 5 levels.
• Have the I, II & III traits in every line unlocked automatically at first access which would be level 20.
• Have the VI trait in every line unlocked automatically as well.
• Re organize trait completion tasks. Remove map completion tasks completely. Adjust the task to be slightly ahead of the level in general etc.

Players need to be able to complete the task required for the trait as close to or before the level they are able to access the trait. If experimentation is in fact the goal of the new system, which free repsecs supports.

By level 15 a player will generally begin adventuring beyond the starting zone for that race. There need to be a plethora of unlocks in the 15~25 zones.

By giving certain traits automatically there will never be a player with 0 traits available. This will also free up some room for more traits to be added that need unlocking while not making it seem insurmountable for new characters who open up the panel and see all those locks.

The reorganization should consider level, location and if possible theme of the trait. For example all classes have a fall damage trait. The theme should be considered here.

To help support experimentation grandmaster traits need to be unlock before 80. It is ok to have the tasks required for some of them or even all of them from this point forwards be level 80 tasks but if players are to experiment they need access. This would put some of the grandmaster unlocks in upper level but not neccessarily level 80 zones, like forstgorge or fireheart rise etc.

Long post. Hope I at least made some sense up there.

Personally I like that traits now have to be unlocked, but I don’t think the current unlock system is very good.

Going back to GW1, skill hunting was a big thing, taking guildies out to cap elites they didn’t have was commonly done but still fun to do. Now in GW2, to get some traits you need to complete zones, which honestly hasn’t been fun. It’s not a challenge, it’s just tedious to do.

I’d far rather have the traits acquired by killing a champion or something similar, a challenge of some sort that was fun to do rather than feeling like work. Believe me, I like pointless challenges more than most people, I decided to see how low a level I could finish Factions at (level 13 btw, no runs, and pugs for groups) so I understand pointlessly doing things, but the key is that it has to be able to be enjoyable and present some level of challenge, not just feel like something that will suck a pile of my time away with little enjoyment.

Yes GW2 is not GW1, but I’d bet that almost any player would say they preferred the skill capping over the trait unlocking, and that matters.

Honestly I don’t think you should have to rely on other players to unlock ANY traits, and I don’t think your low level traits should have to be farmed. Make something reasonable and level appropriate to do for master and grandmaster, AND bring prices of trait purchases down, as they are out to lunch for any new player.

Gregori.5807:

The above comment came because he was hammered about it after saying this:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

GuzziHero.2467:

A question for you, Chris.

Can you confirm whether or not there has been any discussion about player feedback about…

- the new trait system
- the megaserver
- roleplaying and what seems to be Anets attempt to destroy it?

Cheers!

Hi Guzzi,

I don’t want to want to derail the thread, but yes absolutely we have discussed player feedback about these areas of the game.

But seriously let’s not derail the thread.

Chris

I’m glad that something I said had an effect, in its strange little way!

It is good to finally have acceptance of our concerns.

Well, shortsightedness has struck yet another game Trying to cater to too many people, or to one extreme, has left a once great trait system in tattered ruins.

While there are a lot of intriguing traits, getting to level 30 to begin using them is just unbelievably myopic. Why would this be appealing to new players, who are the supposed target of these changes? Getting there takes time, grinding, and a need for incentives to be enjoyable. Anet has removed the best of those incentives and condensed the system into a bad parody of WoW’s talent trees.

Not only are the first 1/3+ of the game doomed to being much more tedious, but the passive stat increases received from early trait lines are no longer available for increasing the speed and ease in which we get out of the lower levels! This is going to compound frustration for new players, not enable them to explore. God, it’s not like throwing 1g at a respec was even a problem; what reason is responsible for this travesty?

I love the idea of having grand master traits earned by embarking on epic quests, though the normal not-epic ones we’ve been given are a start, I guess. This is a worthy arena for new class specific instance, maybe a pseudo-individual finish for getting a class to 80.

Conclusion: New players aren’t going to benefit from this system. If anything, it’s an even less noob-friendly system than before. Just like WoW, leveling has lost some of it’s excitement and the grind has received a greater emphasis than before. Next time, don’t try to fix what isn’t broken, but add fun/interesting/necessary things to it.

The only good choice is a compromise: Keep the system the way it is, but return to the original point by point method. And, don’t start it at level 30!

It’s stuff like this that keeps making me take breaks in the hope of returning to a GW2 that’s got it’s feet under it. Living Story’s are a failed experiment imo, make them a secondary priority while new permanent content is added. It doesn’t have to be one or the other, which has made for a not-so-fun ‘end game’.

This and the trait compromise would fix the most glaring problems I have with GW2. Many of this game’s myriad deserters have had similar complaints about the lack of direction at end game, but they won’t be posting here to voice their opinions, unfortunately. It’s a pity, because this is a beautiful game – it’s the ‘living art’ aesthetic quality throughout GW2 that always brings me back – that deserves far more than the ephemeral mess it keeps proving to be

BlueDragon.7054:

I don t want to sound rude but probably they will “think about it”, but nothing will be done, just like the fractal level reset. I think that the last answer about fractals was that someone was thinking about it. Just like what they are doing now, too much thinking but 0 actions. I hope I m wrong.

I think a lot of the myopia going on here is a fear of failing and a design philosophy demanding to be different clashing with one another.

@Anet: Don’t screw yourselves, and us, over just so you can try to meet some grandiose design philosophy. It isn’t working well enough to lose time, or players, to satisfy it.

Having completed my lvl 80 mesmer on the old system, I find that the new trait system is very restrictive. I love that it encourages you to explore the world more and this new system has definitely caused me to experience parts of the game that I have never seen before, in this matter it is extremely successful. However, when you reach level 30 and are allowed to now unlock traits, I struggled a lot because, all of the traits I wanted were deep in the level 50-60 zones. Although I tried to sneak through them with a group of friends to unlock the traits we wanted, the 30 level difference was a little too much for us. As such, even though the traits unlock at level 30, because I do want to do the exploration part, it feels like I am stuck waiting to level 60. Furthermore, many of WvW traits that are easy to get even at level 1 are master level and cant be accessed until level 60 anyway. Personally I find this very frustrating. If we were to rework which events tied to which traits a little bit to make it more accessible I would find this much more fun.

Continuation of my earlier post

In my search for more information on this new trait system I instantly came across this post. This is just to add one unhappy new voice regarding this game. Admittedly, she had trouble getting interested enough in the old trait system to explore it, but her character is a level 16 mesmer. Now, she’s back from her year long break and has had this to say on the state of things.

“I am not knocking this game, i’m just having a lot of trouble getting into it. I mean, its been ok fun to play, but there aren’t many days when i’m like “man i really want to play Gw2”
I think my biggest problem is the skill system as far as i understands it. My highest level character is 16 and yet it appears i have every main skill i am ever going to have, outside of a few skills with massive cooldowns and over all non game changing effects.
I guess i dont really feel much motivation to play and level up if i dont get many new skills to mess around with.
Even in one of the other games i palyed, where skills were few, they at least got bigger and more powerful the more you used them (the size of an aoe was a bit over double when cast by someone who just got one, when compared to someone who mastered the skill.)
Idk why i’m finding it so hard to like this game, when i like nearly all mmos.
Help?”

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I’m glad it’s going to get looked at. It’s not an inherently bad system – it’s major failings can all be easily adjusted.

1) Changing the level at which you get traits. Setting it to 15 would put it at parity with the original trait system at let people explore traits earlier.

2)Changing the requirements to unlock traits to something more sane. Tying it to champions that will require an active zerg hoses people not on during champ spawn times or during non-peak play hours. Map completion is long and tedious. Why not tie them to a named veteran mob or more regularly occurring events instead of champ and group events? Especially with Adept level traits. Adept level traits should be dead easy to acquire. If you want to scale into Elites and Champs for Master and Grandmaster traits, okay, but the effort required to get even basic traits is way out of whack.

3)Scale down cost. If you’re not going to make the unlocks available earlier and with more sane requirements, then at the very least make the traits cheaper to buy outright. I know you’ve given us the ability to get the free and the increased cost is part of that, but it’s very easy to level to 70+ and not unlock a single trait. It’s not currently an organic system like we were hoping where one could unlock traits just by playing, and some of the higher tier ones required a hunt or adventure. The only recourse is to buy them. Buying traits used to be a cost of just over 3 gold. Now it’s 43 gold and 360 skill points. That’s bananas. Veteran players can afford that on our alts because we have banked gold and skill point scrolls, and even then it’s annoyingly unfun. It’s soul crushing for a new player.

I really hope some good change comes of this.

On a lighter note…

You could play Jumping Flash to train yourself for the upcoming LS…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVttXJVqBuw

Sad but true.

GuzziHero.2467:

“Let’s go, Robbit!”

Ahh, good memories. Gotta go look out my copy now!

Wow. Blast from the past. I should go see if it’s one of the games sitting with my old PS1 in my parents attic.

Isaiah, thanks for coming in here and facing the inevitable criticisms. I am among those who fear this announcement is meant to soften the blow of the impending information that there’s nothing in the September feature patch to repair this system. I hope not, but your tone suggests that there hasn’t been much internal discussion of the matter, and that’s really disappointing.

However, because I want you to know how important this is to me, I’m going to summarize my ideas and some of my favorite suggestions made by other people. This thread contains four months of feedback, so of course it’s going to be hard to get through. As Chris Whiteside pointed out, your primary job isn’t to be here, sifting through massive feedback threads, so hopefully this will be of some help.

1. I’m not saying we agree on anything in this thread, but a vast majority of people seem to agree that level 30 (and every 6 levels thereafter) is not fun. I’d like to see it start at level 15, with one point every 5 levels, and the next tiers unlocked at 30 and 60 respectively.

2. This actually IS almost unanimous: Some tasks are disproportionate and a lot of them are not level-appropriate.

3. I think it would be lovely if the trait acquisition system were handled more like skill point challenges.

4. I hate 100% map complete for a trait. Hate. Particularly an adept level trait, but any of them really.

5. There’s nothing that feels good about paying more for a single trait than it used to cost to unlock a whole tier.

In closing, I’d like to reiterate that I hope I’m wrong. I hope there’s something planned for traits in the feature patch. I’d also like to thank you again for acknowledging the thread.

Before you meet internally and discuss the new trait system, you might want to ask the playerbase one simple question. “What was wrong with the old system?”