Guild Wars 2

aspirine.6852:

Guhracie.3419:

aspirine.6852:

So I had already everything unlocked a year ago, came back and still. have to buy stuff to unlock it again? After this good LS update just feels like Im better of staying away from these horrid decisions anet makes.

If you had it unlocked on a character a year ago, that character will only have to buy/hunt for the 5 new traits each profession got in April.

New traits. ah thanks. I see I fell into the trap of speaking first and research later.

No worries, it happens to everyone. Just be warned that if you reroll or start any new characters, those characters will be trapped in the new system.

Sadly, I think the only reason i still play at all is because a) I already had a billion alts at max level before this update and b) I still have people i enjoy playing with/running around with in WvW. I honestly cannot imagine a brand new player to this game wanting to play past level 60 if it dawned on them how much they had to do just to get fully traited, and even if they DID get a fully set level 80 toon I couldn’t see them making any alts. if they aren’t making alts, then they aren’t trying to get skins and weapons, or even trying all the content offered by Anet. They certainly won’t be dropping money on the game unless they buy gems to get the gold to get the levels and traits and skills on other toons.

If that last statement holds true, then I think its fairly obvious why these changes were even made.

Well at least character slots in the gem store are now “Hot”

Money on it, that’s fictitious.

Wandered away a month or so ago, just came back to unlock the story chapter and see if they’d even bothered to reply to the thread.

All I’m asking, after months of trying to get a response is this: Are there changes on the development schedule, or are you just waiting for the storm to die down?

I have to tell ya, I miss Guild Wars, but I’m an altoholic, and I cannot, simply cannot face doing this absurd song and dance to trait another character. And i realize that my little gem card a month is a pittance in the grand scheme, but I cannot be the only old-timer who has stopped playing and stopped buying gem cards.

I just want to know if there’s any chance at all that you’re going to do something so that customers who bought character slots aren’t faced with these Sisyphean tasks over and over and over again.

Because it’s just breaking my heart that I can’t experience this gorgeous game the way I want to experience it, but instead must follow someone else’s plan for my play time. And I’d just as soon not play your way, but would like to go back to the game’s ideal state of being able to play my way.

In a away, this trait system has same kind of premise that those ’’F2P’’ generic Korean MMO’s where you can play totally free but if you want to use most powerful skills buy it with credit card or do something very tedious.

duckideva.6358:

Wandered away a month or so ago, just came back to unlock the story chapter and see if they’d even bothered to reply to the thread.

All I’m asking, after months of trying to get a response is this: Are there changes on the development schedule, or are you just waiting for the storm to die down?

I have to tell ya, I miss Guild Wars, but I’m an altoholic, and I cannot, simply cannot face doing this absurd song and dance to trait another character. And i realize that my little gem card a month is a pittance in the grand scheme, but I cannot be the only old-timer who has stopped playing and stopped buying gem cards.

I just want to know if there’s any chance at all that you’re going to do something so that customers who bought character slots aren’t faced with these Sisyphean tasks over and over and over again.

Because it’s just breaking my heart that I can’t experience this gorgeous game the way I want to experience it, but instead must follow someone else’s plan for my play time. And I’d just as soon not play your way, but would like to go back to the game’s ideal state of being able to play my way.

Colin did say they were working on something for altoholics…but that’s all that was said.

jucca.8219:

In a away, this trait system has same kind of premise that those ’’F2P’’ generic Korean MMO’s where you can play totally free but if you want to use most powerful skills buy it with credit card or do something very tedious.

Yeah that’s the problem now :/ it feels so grindy. Level 36 to 80 is just a giant grind with nothing fun because of the lack of traits. Hell even with the traits unlocked the new trait system still feels like a giant grind since you’re only earning one every 6 levels. The old system was great.

Vayne.8563:

duckideva.6358:

Wandered away a month or so ago, just came back to unlock the story chapter and see if they’d even bothered to reply to the thread.

All I’m asking, after months of trying to get a response is this: Are there changes on the development schedule, or are you just waiting for the storm to die down?

I have to tell ya, I miss Guild Wars, but I’m an altoholic, and I cannot, simply cannot face doing this absurd song and dance to trait another character. And i realize that my little gem card a month is a pittance in the grand scheme, but I cannot be the only old-timer who has stopped playing and stopped buying gem cards.

I just want to know if there’s any chance at all that you’re going to do something so that customers who bought character slots aren’t faced with these Sisyphean tasks over and over and over again.

Because it’s just breaking my heart that I can’t experience this gorgeous game the way I want to experience it, but instead must follow someone else’s plan for my play time. And I’d just as soon not play your way, but would like to go back to the game’s ideal state of being able to play my way.

Colin did say they were working on something for altoholics…but that’s all that was said.

Reminds me of how John Smith said in April that changes were coming to the mystic forge and he thought we’d all be super pleased about them. The implication was that those changes would be in the feature patch, but he’s since said that they’re not in yet.

EDIT: Oh, he said it before April. This references it:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

John Smith.4610:

The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now.

I will hold you to this statement, and applaud your courage and openness; communication regarding changes in this game need a lot of more of both.

After reviving my friend a zillion times, I asked about his traits. He said he didn’t have any because he spent the skill points on….uhm SKILLS! Wonder how many players are trying (<- notice the word TRYING) to enjoy the game traitless?? Very sad!
Anet, don’t you think it’s time to fix this?

Vayne.8563:

duckideva.6358:

Wandered away a month or so ago, just came back to unlock the story chapter and see if they’d even bothered to reply to the thread.

All I’m asking, after months of trying to get a response is this: Are there changes on the development schedule, or are you just waiting for the storm to die down?

I have to tell ya, I miss Guild Wars, but I’m an altoholic, and I cannot, simply cannot face doing this absurd song and dance to trait another character. And i realize that my little gem card a month is a pittance in the grand scheme, but I cannot be the only old-timer who has stopped playing and stopped buying gem cards.

I just want to know if there’s any chance at all that you’re going to do something so that customers who bought character slots aren’t faced with these Sisyphean tasks over and over and over again.

Because it’s just breaking my heart that I can’t experience this gorgeous game the way I want to experience it, but instead must follow someone else’s plan for my play time. And I’d just as soon not play your way, but would like to go back to the game’s ideal state of being able to play my way.

Colin did say they were working on something for altoholics…but that’s all that was said.

Colin also said they were working on “Streamlining” the intrusive UI months ago, I would take it all with a liberal pinch of sea salt.

tofumon.5924:

jucca.8219:

In a away, this trait system has same kind of premise that those ’’F2P’’ generic Korean MMO’s where you can play totally free but if you want to use most powerful skills buy it with credit card or do something very tedious.

Yeah that’s the problem now :/ it feels so grindy. Level 36 to 80 is just a giant grind with nothing fun because of the lack of traits. Hell even with the traits unlocked the new trait system still feels like a giant grind since you’re only earning one every 6 levels. The old system was great.

I have a couple of low level toons that I bought slots for. I can skin them (and have done on my guardian noob, he’s level 20 with T3 cultural lol) I just can’t bring myself to play him. Even on my older toons it seems every day I’m finding something else removed from the game for no reason other than Anet’s desire to tell us how smart they are by dumbing everything down to finger painting levels?

Genius

I created a few characters after the April patch, & on every one of them I was running around without any Traits for most of the game. It wasn’t until around Level 70 where I had enough Skill Points to buy what I wanted. Getting Trait points without any Traits, in a word… sucks!

I only began playing after these changes but I thought my input would be useful.

I found it strange that I could only consider making a weapon specific build once I reached near level cap, most other mmo’s have you deciding on your build as you level and change it when you want to, I actually felt like I wasn’t making much progression at all until the higher levels, by level 40 I expected to be able to trait into different bonuses such as increased defence or attack however it seemed those choices where tied down to my utility skill choice instead.

The unlocking traits from bosses thing is good I found however it was confusing at first when I went to an area to find either no boss there or that the boss was there but was too difficult to solo or even kill with 3 people, instead I would have to stand in the zone and spam the map channel asking for help which lead to nothing on most occasions meaning I went without the trait.

The unlocking skill tiers at 60 and 80 are also irritating, they made my guardian use traits on skills I have no interest in and would have made no difference having no traits.

More variety on the unlocks would be nice too, so far it is just kill bosses or complete maps to unlock them as far as I know but it would be good to have to do something like visit vistas or to talk to a specific npc to hear a story that is class related or even use a specific weapon to get so many kills to unlock something which would fit perfectly with the traits that reduce weapon cooldowns.

Zekvich.6701:

The unlocking traits from bosses thing is good I found however it was confusing at first when I went to an area to find either no boss there or that the boss was there but was too difficult to solo or even kill with 3 people, instead I would have to stand in the zone and spam the map channel asking for help which lead to nothing on most occasions meaning I went without the trait.

Soooo how is that “good”? That sounds terrible.

It is good because it is fun to have to do something for the trait, better than having it for free or having to use currency for it.

That is all though, the bosses have no theme, not enough players to kill etc, would need more improvements to make it exciting to do though.

Zekvich.6701:

It is good because it is fun to have to do something for the trait, better than having it for free or having to use currency for it.

That is all though, the bosses have no theme, not enough players to kill etc, would need more improvements to make it exciting to do though.

It wasn’t for free and the rewarding part was gaining the trait points needed to unlock the slot. It used to be one point per level but it required 5 points to unlock each trait.

So every time you leveled, it actually felt rewarding because you were one step closer. I could make a new character, buy some basic weapons, grind out all the weapon skills in just a few minutes. Then, after that, each level gave a skill point, and from 10 on you got a trait point to. You then spent the trait points on traits, skill points on skill and only had to spend a little on a book to unlock each of the three tiers. Your utility skills were locked behind leveling but other than that, leveling felt plenty rewarding.

Now with everything locked behind levels, and traits the way they are, it’s not rewarding but rather tedious.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

After reviving my friend a zillion times, I asked about his traits. He said he didn’t have any because he spent the skill points on….uhm SKILLS! Wonder how many players are trying (<- notice the word TRYING) to enjoy the game traitless?? Very sad!
Anet, don’t you think it’s time to fix this?

Every single new player I’ve met has had this problem so far. Most of them end up not coming back for more once they realize this.

I can’t believe they haven’t reverted these changes. It’s like they’re afraid to despite it being a healthier change for the game.

Gaile Gray.6029:

With subsequent changes to the game, your input shifted to address current concerns. That’s very meaningful to those team members following this thread and we thank you.

This implies that input about previous concerns is less meaningful, is that intentional? Can you give us some examples of this shift? I don’t see it, the input I’m seeing in the thread still seems to be mostly about issues raised on the first few pages of the thread.

DeceiverX.8361:

Daggos Skelito.2910:

After reviving my friend a zillion times, I asked about his traits. He said he didn’t have any because he spent the skill points on….uhm SKILLS! Wonder how many players are trying (<- notice the word TRYING) to enjoy the game traitless?? Very sad!
Anet, don’t you think it’s time to fix this?

Every single new player I’ve met has had this problem so far. Most of them end up not coming back for more once they realize this.

I can’t believe they haven’t reverted these changes. It’s like they’re afraid to despite it being a healthier change for the game.

Yeah, they have this superiority complex thing going on. It does more harm than good.

Tales of Traitery and Devastation

I decided to respec my NPE ele the other day because on the second play through Episode Five: Come and Get Your Loot, I felt she was taking a little too long to defeat those ghostly seraph guys. Also, some of the mordrems.

Side note: be funny if some aspiring asura science whiz took mordrem parts and re-purposed them as ‘lesdrems’ to use against the mordrems.

Ahem. Now, I’m not a build theorist kinda player. I have a general idea of what I want my characters to do, and I tend to decide on a particular set of weapons first and then build around them, but when it comes to working out whether this thing will give me .007% more whatever than some other thing, I’m lost. So I turn to the googles for ideas and then season to taste.

After googling around for a bit, I found a build that suited my desires (and existing gear) and, thanks to the handy dandy Trait System Redesign, I was able to easily replace my NPE ele’s old build with this new… oops. Trait missing in the water line. VI. Blue one. Adept. Vital Striking. Hmm. What hoops must I jump through to — oh. Defeat the krait witch of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

Yeah. No. I don’t want to defeat the kitten krait witch right now. I want to kill stuff faster in those crazy Silverwastes before anet nerfs the loots, because you know they will. They do it every. single. time. One would think by now they’d have some idea what to look for before unleashing these things on the loot-starved metrics, er, players, but that’s grist for another mill.

So. Hello, trait vendor. Anet wins again!

Afterward, alas, I (perhaps foolishly) didn’t go immediately back to the Land of the Loots. For some obscure reason I switched to my thief (first 80, first to have been there and done that, etc.) and started tinkering with her build. I needed a gold XIII grandmaster trait from some Risen High Wizard who hangs out in the Promenade of the Gods down in Orr — meh, fair enough — but he was not available at that time.

So I went temple hopping, and while in the Straits of Devastation I oversaw (like overhearing, ‘cept in regard to text) someone in map chat say he or she was going to the sunken ship for the trait there, and did anyone want to go with? So I went over there, and there was an assemblage of maybe ten or so guys, and we all proceeded into the ship and got the trait. I don’t even know what it was, but it was one of the new ones, and I knew my thief didn’t have it.

The Risen High Wizard was still out to lunch, so I threw in the towel (again) and bought that kitten trait. 3 gold, 20 skill points. Not a lot to most folks, I guess. I’m sure the people who wisely spent their time in the Goldwastes, unlike me, out here goofing around with traits, would have no qualms about parting with the meager sum of 3 gold. There you go, anet. Another victory!

Epilogue: I went back to Arah later with my engineer and got in on the tail of recapturing the previously mentioned Promenade or Narthex or whatever, but evidently the Risen High Wizard had already bailed because there was no trait awarded, but that was okay because I didn’t need that trait for him anyway, so pfft.

Basically atm, you waste to much time (and power to understand), to get your traits. Basic traits 6×6 = 36. While every single task may be small, it adds up a gigantic time sink. At on top of that, that some require an event to spawn (wich may not spawn for ages), and you create an even more crazy time sink. Then repeat that for 8 profession, And repeat that for optional alts, and you got absolutely a korean grind game. I have relatively low impact by this patch, cause i can play my 10 chars (made before patch). I got now 12 other chars, that I planned to play someday, but is impossible because of the super grind, necessary to get them going.

I wasted all skill points i could find on lvl 80 ele, and guess what, he still only has the mandatory traits, and somehow she still feels weaker then my other ele. It took me 1,5 months, but now i have 60 skill point scrolls, wich should boost, the amount of traits on that Elementalist considerably. But do you even consider this? 1,5 months farming on main (+ all the gold loss), to even make an alt viable without being hurt by the time sink. Now it’s kind of a passive time sink for me, since I can enjoy my main, slowly progress the alt, but still, having to wait that long, is tedious. But more so, I got the luxury of having mains, new players don’t. Take my word for it, someone planning to play 100’s of (fun) hours in guild wars, will not take this grinding, and will leave instantly. A lot of wow players are getting bored it seems these days, it’s time you fix guild wars so it is the same alternative as it was a year ago.

Thanks Anet… It’s for your own good. I know it’s hard to admit. Just do it, don’t even need an announcement. Keep it secret if you want. But fix this already, thanks.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Basically atm, you waste to much time (and power to understand), to get your traits. Basic traits 6×6 = 36. While every single task may be small, it adds up a gigantic time sink. At on top of that, that some require an event to spawn (wich may not spawn for ages), and you create an even more crazy time sink. Then repeat that for 8 profession, And repeat that for optional alts, and you got absolutely a korean grind game. I have relatively low impact by this patch, cause i can play my 10 chars (made before patch). I got now 12 other chars, that I planned to play someday, but is impossible because of the super grind, necessary to get them going.

I wasted all skill points i could find on lvl 80 ele, and guess what, he still only has the mandatory traits, and somehow she still feels weaker then my other ele. It took me 1,5 months, but now i have 60 skill point scrolls, wich should boost, the amount of traits on that Elementalist considerably. But do you even consider this? 1,5 months farming on main (+ all the gold loss), to even make an alt viable without being hurt by the time sink. Now it’s kind of a passive time sink for me, since I can enjoy my main, slowly progress the alt, but still, having to wait that long, is tedious. But more so, I got the luxury of having mains, new players don’t. Take my word for it, someone planning to play 100’s of (fun) hours in guild wars, will not take this grinding, and will leave instantly. A lot of wow players are getting bored it seems these days, it’s time you fix guild wars so it is the same alternative as it was a year ago.

Thanks Anet… It’s for your own good. I know it’s hard to admit. Just do it, don’t even need an announcement. Keep it secret if you want. But fix this already, thanks.

took me 16 days to get my engy to level 80 and unlock all my traits…

Azzer.8137:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Basically atm, you waste to much time (and power to understand), to get your traits. Basic traits 6×6 = 36. While every single task may be small, it adds up a gigantic time sink. At on top of that, that some require an event to spawn (wich may not spawn for ages), and you create an even more crazy time sink. Then repeat that for 8 profession, And repeat that for optional alts, and you got absolutely a korean grind game. I have relatively low impact by this patch, cause i can play my 10 chars (made before patch). I got now 12 other chars, that I planned to play someday, but is impossible because of the super grind, necessary to get them going.

I wasted all skill points i could find on lvl 80 ele, and guess what, he still only has the mandatory traits, and somehow she still feels weaker then my other ele. It took me 1,5 months, but now i have 60 skill point scrolls, wich should boost, the amount of traits on that Elementalist considerably. But do you even consider this? 1,5 months farming on main (+ all the gold loss), to even make an alt viable without being hurt by the time sink. Now it’s kind of a passive time sink for me, since I can enjoy my main, slowly progress the alt, but still, having to wait that long, is tedious. But more so, I got the luxury of having mains, new players don’t. Take my word for it, someone planning to play 100’s of (fun) hours in guild wars, will not take this grinding, and will leave instantly. A lot of wow players are getting bored it seems these days, it’s time you fix guild wars so it is the same alternative as it was a year ago.

Thanks Anet… It’s for your own good. I know it’s hard to admit. Just do it, don’t even need an announcement. Keep it secret if you want. But fix this already, thanks.

took me 16 days to get my engy to level 80 and unlock all my traits…

did you do every trait unlock quest?

I can see it being possible, but only for a gw2 veteran, which most players are pretty far from, especially new players.
Also how did you get to 80? how much of that time was spent post level 80 to get those traits? (if you didnt buy them)

16 days, with how much time played each day?

curious

And, really unlock ALL of your traits? I’m curious too ; )

So I’ve taken some lengthy breaks from GW2, didn’t really play all summer, now I come back and start to enjoy things. I honestly didn’t even realize what a travesty the trait system had become for a while as I leveled up my Mesmer who was sitting at lvl 25 since sometime last year.

Since he existed before the NPE he had all vanilla traits unlocked arleady. So It wasn’t until I’d levled him up to 80 and started a new alt engineer that I got slapped in the face with this new trait unlock system.

Firstly, what’s with the skill point cost? Not sure if you noticed but the most people with tons of spare skill points are lvl 80’s that are played a lot/have done a lot of world completion. Putting extra skill point grind on low level characters isn’t the way to do it, most people spend their first 100+ skill points on, get this, their skills.

Secondly, why are so many adept level traits for events in level 40-50 zones? You unlock the ability to get an adept level trait at level 36 last I checked, really about four levels before one should worry about going into said zones. Why aren’t the adept level traits linked to things you’ll be doing leading up to level 36 so you can at least have some traits unlocked when you get there?

Also what’s with the super specific do X event stuff anyways? If I’m an asura playing through the zones in Kryta why would I want to drop everything I’m doing and go to the boonies in Ascalon for some trait event that I might have to wait a half hour for? Zone completion/world exploration used to feel organic and fun I could go where I wanted and it didn’t matter the progress was all the same, now it feels like I’m being led around by the nose.

I think the thing that irks me the most about this however is how much of a grind and or gold/skill point sink it is to unlock all of a profession’s traits. Wasn’t the trait system supposed to be about customizing playstyles and discovering cool new ways to play? Yes? Then why put such a massive price tag/barrier to entry on them? As I see it I’m best served figuring out my level 80 build before I get my first trait point so I can plan out either what I need to buy or what hoops I need to jump through to get the traits for that build then never bother experimenting with a build ever again.

I just…why Anet? Why? Customized character builds was the single biggest selling point of GW1 for me and the Traits were supposed to bring that depth to GW2. Why are you now punishing new players for wanting to have fun and experiment with the customization?

Azzer.8137:

I for one like the new trait system a lot, it’s like in Gw1 where you had to go out in the world and use a signet of capture, but i guess most people today are entitled little idiots who don’t like to work for anything at all.

Also this is insane i know, but i know a way to get a traid withouth doing the event/boss/veteran/whatever.

ok here it comes…..

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!! whaaaat so you are saying that i can actually just buy them instead of crying like a little kitten ?

Yes that is correct.

Did GW1 SKILL (<- notice the word skill) hunt effect in anyway your build. NO it was optional. Ok buying is fair enough, BUT you are forgetting the brand new spanking players without gold and skill points. Uhm just maybe they used their “SKILL POINTS” for skills huh!
Geee, might be why so many newer players are running around without traits and subpar builds…… I wonder!

Azzer.8137:

I for one like the new trait system a lot, it’s like in Gw1 where you had to go out in the world and use a signet of capture, but i guess most people today are entitled little idiots who don’t like to work for anything at all.

Also this is insane i know, but i know a way to get a traid withouth doing the event/boss/veteran/whatever.

ok here it comes…..

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!! whaaaat so you are saying that i can actually just buy them instead of crying like a little kitten ?

Yes that is correct.

“Entitled little idiots”
“crying like a little kitten”
I’m sorry, but you think this is an okay way to talk to people?

It costs 43g and 360 skillpoints to buy all the traits from the vendor. Prior to April of this year, it was 2g70s for all 60 traits.

Yes. I want the game that I originally purchased. Maybe that makes me “entitled,” I don’t know. But if the new trait system is so wonderful, then it shouldn’t be a problem to set the price back to what it was originally. If the new trait system is so engaging and fun and easy-to-use, most people won’t bother spending that 3g, right?

Reason for edit: Temper got the better of me.

Azzer.8137:

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!!

Having raised a character under this system, I found it killed the urge to experiment.

If I knew I wanted it, and the unlock was too painful, I bought it. But, if I thought maybe I should try this, and the unlock was too painful… I skipped it.

I’ve said it before: I don’t mind that they changed traits, I mind that they did such a lazy job with the implementation. This needed new content so trait unlocks were of similar difficulty. It makes no sense that one adept trait requires 20 minutes solo and the next takes hours and a group.

Azzer.8137:

I for one like the new trait system a lot, it’s like in Gw1 where you had to go out in the world and use a signet of capture, but i guess most people today are entitled little idiots who don’t like to work for anything at all.

Also this is insane i know, but i know a way to get a traid withouth doing the event/boss/veteran/whatever.

ok here it comes…..

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!! whaaaat so you are saying that i can actually just buy them instead of crying like a little kitten ?

Yes that is correct.

Interesting…..now can you do the something on 3 more new characters and comeback and post here??? There is a reason why people here are complaining for this to be unlocked account wide, but hey if you wallet talks, then wallet talks

Before:
3.10 gold to unlock ALL traits AND play as you want

Current:
43 gold + 360 skill points to unlock ALL traits OR play as they want

This is quite a change. When I wanna recommend this game to new players I tell them that unlocking traits is a grind and you will be behind the curve for conceivable a long while.

Azzer.8137:

I for one like the new trait system a lot, it’s like in Gw1 where you had to go out in the world and use a signet of capture, but i guess most people today are entitled little idiots who don’t like to work for anything at all.

Also this is insane i know, but i know a way to get a traid withouth doing the event/boss/veteran/whatever.

ok here it comes…..

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!! whaaaat so you are saying that i can actually just buy them instead of crying like a little kitten ?

Yes that is correct.

Lol sweet so I can grind out 43 gold and 360 skill points to buy all the traits? Or I can get people to wait around with me for a random boss to show up at who knows when?

If you think this is the same as GW1’s skill hunting you’re delusional.

Azzer.8137:

took me 16 days to get my engy to level 80 and unlock all my traits…

How many hours did you have to spend each day waiting for event chains to start to unlock the traits? How many hours did you have to spend on chat getting people to party with you to defeat bosses?

to many hours

but I am a pvp / wvw person .

and pve is a waste of time .. gw2 does not even have smart mobs…
there is no counter attack when u stand behind them ?!?!
lol even tera has mobs with some counter attacks .

but really I just wish they would focus on pvp/wvw
it is a lame pve game and has a lot of pvp/wvw potential.
but they are to focused on PVE to ever break past there bad reputation on other mmo games for not improving !

Rococo.8347:

In case no one checking this thread has seen the recently locked communication thread here is what I took away from the response…

‘The fact is, sometimes it’s not even reasonable to ask for a detailed status report. (And again, I do know how frustrating that can be.)’

<snip>
I really have no words right now.

I think it is possible that it is worded a little ambiguously. if Gaile is referring to her or the communications team finding it is unreasonable to ask for status reports, then i can sort of see what is being got at, as they would know of the pressures being given to the devs to do things. If that was directed at us the players, then i am even more disillusioned. Fact is, it IS reasonable for us to ask for updates on things that have been a concern for 6 BLOOMING MONTHS. And if we don’t get some news, what is to stop us from assuming Anet are sitting around with thumbs up their orifices doing nothing? Would love to see some clarification on that particular comment.

However, that wasn’t the only part of that post that filled me with some form of dread;

“But please know that with a busy team involved in a lot of projects, and most of them very time-critical, it’s not always possible to shift resources to address a particular issue.”

Is just as big an issue for me. My reading of that is Anet have a “fire and forget” mentality when it comes to their releases and features. They simply can’t go back to address our concerns because the schedule is too tight for them to spend any time. In some ways that make sense, but it leaves very broken systems in game indefinitely, and doesn’t fill us with any confidence that “our feedback is being considered”. Actually reminds me of a line from a political sitcom from the 80s in my beloved UK, called Yes, Minister. The discussion was around correspondence between the member of the UK cabinet and those he is being written to about various issues the public has. The options for responses were “under consideration” and “under active consideration”. The difference being under consideration means they lost the file and under active consideration means they are trying to find it. The point is, while Anet may be saying some things, what they actually mean could be very different, and without a proper update we will never know. That line makes me think that wile we may get some nice responses, we will be getting nothing at all in the way of a change or a revision of the system. Anet’s way of telling us to “suck it up”. If there was thorough testing, both of the system and player reaction before hand, by, just for an example, real transparancy and open discussion of upcoming features, then they can release and largely forget, as there won’t be so many issues and complaints. Its a way of decreasing your workload in the long rin Anet! (if of course you plan on doing anything to sort these messes out).

Another golden quote from that post;

“We’d appreciate not seeing resurrections of this topic, when it has been addressed often in the past and to the degree that we’re able to address it right now.”

If Anet do not want resurrections of topics, then they need to respond better to them. That they may have been addressed often and to the fullest degree possible with company policy, and so many players are still so unsatisfied with the results, surely indicates that degree and level of addressing is inadequate. Certainly we love to moan about things on these forums, but generally only where we see something to moan about. It is great to see a more concerted effort by Anet to communicate with us. it is very noticeable. What isn’t so noticeable is much by way of truly meaningful response, and goes back to the previous section about Anet not necessarily working on our issues. We assume there isn’t something being said because there isn’t something to say, and there isn’t something to say because it isn’t being worked on and you can’t admit that. This is of course, unless the major gaming sites get a hold in it, then just try to stop Anet sorting a problem out.

That is probably a bit too harsh, but it is easy to take such flights of fancy and assume the worse if we have no concrete information to replace those worst case scenario assumptions. Remember, a lot of the disappointment, frustration and anger is down to this thread not receiving a kittenie bird by way of an Anet response in months, and then when it comes, it is of such a disappointing standard. That isn’t the fault of Gaile, who is by and large the messenger, but Anet and their anti-transparancy policies that can only sow the seeds of distrust.

This is a system that is so broken for many, and is a core aspect of the game, that has in all ways gone against the goal of build experimentation. Reset cost has gone, but the cost of unlocking all the traits, by way of activity or just buying, has increased the cost, whether through time or resources(gold, skill points) by a simply colossal amount. Ad still nothing of substance in response to our concerns. Considering can mean anything. We want to know precisely what is being done. Is it truly unreasonable to ask for a status report on something we have been complaining about for over 6 months, and have been told it is being looked into. Surely if it is being looked into, there is something that could be said in response, unless it wasn’t looked into, and in which case why not? Additionally, it may be fun to unlock the skills the first time around, but what about the second, third etc? For many, it won’t be worth the hassle, and so this precious new trait system will not be used by many, and ultimately will have proven a waste of resources. At the very extreme end, if people find the traits too much to unlock, they might think that since such a large part of the character and individuality is blocked off from them, whats the point in playing and may just leave.

“In general I’m going to see if we can answer some of the major threads — both older and recent”

I hope this thread is one of them, and there will be a truly substantial response. Knowing Gaile, I think she’d like to give one. Knowing Anet, I’m sure they don’t.

Ultimately it is still a question of communication, that has caused these problems. Lack of communication before release, and no communication after in this case for so long. And then Anet wonder why we demand information on this. If Anet sorted out their practices with regards to communication, openness and treating players with some respect, these things wouldn’t occur.

As it is, that post has made me feel like that while our feedback will be “considered”, nothing will come of it because devs have to do everything else. This is a system in game already so doesn’t need changing. I hope t be reassured when Gaile visits this thread next. I’m not convinced I will be.

I’m not convinced that the next time Gaile visits this thread, it won’t be to lock it.

I was very excited by this when they first announced it, but the trait requirements are so far out of my way that I never do them. I am leveling in ascalon, but the trait I want tells my I have to go level in shiverpeaks. But I don’t want to go level in shiverpeaks cause I literally just did map completion there and dont want to bore myself to do it again. Completing a whole map for a trait is pretty crazy.

I think the better way to do it would be to allow us to get a new type of point that allows us to unlock whichever trait in that tier that we want to. Its annoying that I can’t change my builds now on my new characters because I unlock only the traits I need and when I need to change them real fast, I have to go spend gold even if it is just for the fall damage trait which I need just for a second.

To re-iterate my concerns with my last post, and to do it in a less grouchy, rambling way (I get like that late at night. oops!), here are some questions which I feel are pertinent to this thread. Perhaps these questions could be passed along to the devs/whoever is higher up in these situations. The questions are based upon the trait system as it stands, aswell as recent Anet responses.

1) Give that one of the aims of the new system was to promote greater build experimentation, how do you feel the system has done compared to that objective?
2) Do you feel that the current way of acquiring traits, either through unlocking or buying, promotes that experimentation
3) Do you feel that the cost side of unlocking (probably more aimed at repeat characters) is a good balance for those levelling new characters and for new players.
4) What was the logic behind gating lower level traits behind higher level objectives?
5) Is it truly seen as unreasonable to ask for status reports on issues that have been a concern for over 6 months?
6) When it is stated that our feedback is being considered, what exactly does that mean? Is it just being filed away or is it being used to improve the system? Either way, how can we know, unless a meaningful update is given?
7) Do you feel the way in which these feedback threads from that time was handled, with the lack of response for months on end was handled appropriately?
8) With the obvious time pressures for new content, and as said with the post in the Communication Disappointment thread, is the addressing of a 6 month old a priority anymore?
9) How many people are working on the trait system at the moment? I understand that probably the same people do several jobs, so can there be some sort of statistic to show how much work has gone into the trait system from the development end in, say, the last 2 months?
10) Witht he heavy focus being on the new content, would that push the changing of an older system (traits) further back in priority. With that, can any change to the system in response to feedback be expected in, say the next 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?
11) If unable to answer that question, can you understand why that frustrates players and makes us assume we are being ignored? (that question wasn’t to put down a strict timescale, but to find an assurance that changes will happen. Can that assurance be given?
12) Would some form of account unlocking of traits, perhaps with a different cost that would be economical for altoholics, but enough of a sink to be substantial, be something that could be explored?

Perhaps some questions that Anet could mull over.

A friend I brought into the game has been considering coming back.

I sheepishly told him not to bother.

The current trait system is at least 50% of that reason I told him not to come back.
(Lackluster crafting and sparse endgame is the rest.)

It’s really depressing that I can no longer recommend GW2 to those I’d want to play it with.

The only intention in this system that seems possible to me is that Anet really wants this game to die, which is really sad….

I have only one of my six characters hit by this new system, unlocked like 70% of the traits (some of them I just bought, because I don’t want to spend an hour spamming chat for help), but most I had unlocked by the events/chests etc…
However I cannot imagine how a new player with his first character will do it, and how is this “newbie friendly” as Anet says to prefer in the changes recently…..

Azzer.8137:

I for one like the new trait system a lot, it’s like in Gw1 where you had to go out in the world and use a signet of capture, but i guess most people today are entitled little idiots who don’t like to work for anything at all.

Also this is insane i know, but i know a way to get a traid withouth doing the event/boss/veteran/whatever.

ok here it comes…..

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!! whaaaat so you are saying that i can actually just buy them instead of crying like a little kitten ?

Yes that is correct.

I’m going to take it you have not actually read ALL of the very well thought out and well reasoned arguments against everything you just said in this post just so you could wax sarcastic, so to ensure that you maybe understand the issue here, I’ll recap for you:

For most long time vets the cost in gold usually isn’t a problem, and the skill point cost is annoying and is only there to eat up the skill point scrolls they might have. For new players, even if they played all the content and somehow got all the traits through gameplay (assuming they magically got an event that is notoriously bugged to work), they still a) won’t want to do all of it all over again on an alt, and b) won’t have the funds or the skill points to buy said traits as easily as you’d like to claim it to be.

Furthermore, the skill hunting via signet of capture in GW1 is not the same thing as traits in GW2. If they made it so i had to fight certain bosses to gain certain utility skills OR made it so I could buy them for a nominal fee, then yes it might be the same thing. Traits in GW2 are crucial to complete builds for the more competitive aspects of the game. your damage and survivability in those areas of the game depend on having those traits. in GW1, not having 30 different elites didn’t cripple you as a player.

Azzer.8137:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Basically atm, you waste to much time (and power to understand), to get your traits. Basic traits 6×6 = 36. While every single task may be small, it adds up a gigantic time sink. At on top of that, that some require an event to spawn (wich may not spawn for ages), and you create an even more crazy time sink. Then repeat that for 8 profession, And repeat that for optional alts, and you got absolutely a korean grind game. I have relatively low impact by this patch, cause i can play my 10 chars (made before patch). I got now 12 other chars, that I planned to play someday, but is impossible because of the super grind, necessary to get them going.

I wasted all skill points i could find on lvl 80 ele, and guess what, he still only has the mandatory traits, and somehow she still feels weaker then my other ele. It took me 1,5 months, but now i have 60 skill point scrolls, wich should boost, the amount of traits on that Elementalist considerably. But do you even consider this? 1,5 months farming on main (+ all the gold loss), to even make an alt viable without being hurt by the time sink. Now it’s kind of a passive time sink for me, since I can enjoy my main, slowly progress the alt, but still, having to wait that long, is tedious. But more so, I got the luxury of having mains, new players don’t. Take my word for it, someone planning to play 100’s of (fun) hours in guild wars, will not take this grinding, and will leave instantly. A lot of wow players are getting bored it seems these days, it’s time you fix guild wars so it is the same alternative as it was a year ago.

Thanks Anet… It’s for your own good. I know it’s hard to admit. Just do it, don’t even need an announcement. Keep it secret if you want. But fix this already, thanks.

took me 16 days to get my engy to level 80 and unlock all my traits…

16 days was done by one of the following.

a. Only unlocked a few traits and not all of them, to suit a certain build. Probably didn’t even finish a build.
b. Had an obscene amount of skill scrolls and enough gold to unlock all the skills from an alt. He will not be able to do the same for any other new characters because he won’t have the skill scrolls unless he saves up for another year before creating another character.
c. The character was created pre-April patch and was grandfathered in.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I promise that you’re not being snubbed (Tachenon, you made me both smile and wince there, with your definition of the term). Please know this thread is serving a good purpose and that is is offering the dev team valuable information. The fact is, though, there’s simply nothing new to say on the subject right now.

We know that you’d like to have some info on this subject. But until there’s something of substance to say, devs wouldn’t post in the thread due both to their generally busy schedules and to our practice of talking about matters of this sort only when we’re able to provide something of substance, within a meaningful timeframe.

Having said all that, your input is extremely valuable, and that’s why it was requested back in April. We reached out to you, and you provided a good deal of insight, and of good value, too! With subsequent changes to the game, your input shifted to address current concerns. That’s very meaningful to those team members following this thread and we thank you.

We’ve said it before, but giving details about for a suggested change is better than saying “I don’t like it.” If you can say why, and give a proposed fix, that’s very useful to the team. You are not in any way obliged to do this, you know that and I’m agreeing. I’m just making the suggestion to put the most value on your time in posting and the devs in reading.

Thanks.

As I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, the following is my suggested change.

Add an account wide unlock for the traits upon completing the tasks required to unlock them (whether buying them or doing the open world portion). Not a class wide unlock, I mean across all characters. For example, say a player unlocks all the traits on their Guardian. They make a Necromancer next. When they unlock the adept traits at level 36, they will have all of them already unlocked and ready for use.

I suggest this because as of right now, the trait system discourages experimentation with traits because you have to keep unlocking them, even on new characters, and makes the game significantly less fun due to this. Since I recall it being said that the trait changes originally came into place to encourage trait experimentation (which it failed to do), a simple account-bound unlock would be good enough to make that statement true.

i agree with this if grandfathered characters unlock all of them right at that time, i never bothered to ether buy or earn traits because i find the unlock part ridicules even to it’s basic sense.
it’s already annoying that i have to wait till lvl 30 till i can even get a minor trait let alone grinding my way trough the game just for one single trait and on a higher level no less, veterans are right now being kicked in the balls with this system while new players wonder why we are so kittened.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

16 days was done by one of the following.

a. Only unlocked a few traits and not all of them, to suit a certain build. Probably didn’t even finish a build.
b. Had an obscene amount of skill scrolls and enough gold to unlock all the skills from an alt. He will not be able to do the same for any other new characters because he won’t have the skill scrolls unless he saves up for another year before creating another character.
c. The character was created pre-April patch and was grandfathered in.

No, it is possible without buying a trait, except for one as that one is bugged.
BUT it requires a lot of knowledge about where to find help (websites) and how to do stuff in this game in general. Well and also luck as a lot of the traits aren’t soloable.

I haven’t given up on anet and hope that they realized that this system is a huge mistake and are working on something to make it better. That’s why I’m still keeping this thread alive as as long as it is I won’t give up hope, I guess. Well maybe in another 6 months I will lose hope no matter what.

Wolfheart.1879:

To re-iterate my concerns with my last post, and to do it in a less grouchy, rambling way (I get like that late at night. oops!), here are some questions which I feel are pertinent to this thread. Perhaps these questions could be passed along to the devs/whoever is higher up in these situations. The questions are based upon the trait system as it stands, aswell as recent Anet responses.

1) Give that one of the aims of the new system was to promote greater build experimentation, how do you feel the system has done compared to that objective?
2) Do you feel that the current way of acquiring traits, either through unlocking or buying, promotes that experimentation
3) Do you feel that the cost side of unlocking (probably more aimed at repeat characters) is a good balance for those levelling new characters and for new players.
4) What was the logic behind gating lower level traits behind higher level objectives?
5) Is it truly seen as unreasonable to ask for status reports on issues that have been a concern for over 6 months?
6) When it is stated that our feedback is being considered, what exactly does that mean? Is it just being filed away or is it being used to improve the system? Either way, how can we know, unless a meaningful update is given?
7) Do you feel the way in which these feedback threads from that time was handled, with the lack of response for months on end was handled appropriately?
8) With the obvious time pressures for new content, and as said with the post in the Communication Disappointment thread, is the addressing of a 6 month old a priority anymore?
9) How many people are working on the trait system at the moment? I understand that probably the same people do several jobs, so can there be some sort of statistic to show how much work has gone into the trait system from the development end in, say, the last 2 months?
10) Witht he heavy focus being on the new content, would that push the changing of an older system (traits) further back in priority. With that, can any change to the system in response to feedback be expected in, say the next 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?
11) If unable to answer that question, can you understand why that frustrates players and makes us assume we are being ignored? (that question wasn’t to put down a strict timescale, but to find an assurance that changes will happen. Can that assurance be given?
12) Would some form of account unlocking of traits, perhaps with a different cost that would be economical for altoholics, but enough of a sink to be substantial, be something that could be explored?

Perhaps some questions that Anet could mull over.

All great questions. I think I remember the specific answers to two of them, though I can’t remember where the original posts are.

4) The idea of locking traits behind increasingly difficult content is to provide a sense of progression. I think it is supposed to give a player more of a sense of reward as they level and as they explore. If the Adept tier covers level 30-60, the content in it should cover that entire level range, so you always feel like you have something of your level to do.

10/11) It has been said explicitly that company policy prevents them from giving time frames ever again. Gaile has said repeatedly that she (they?) understands our frustration with the little information we’re given and that we should trust that they are working on improvements. We’ve also gotten the closest thing to a confirmation we’ve had in over a year that something was going to happen with the trait system; it’s buried somewhere in this thread.

The reason people are wondering why it’s taking so long is because it seemed like the trait overhaul was implemented quite quickly.

The changes were announced officially on March 20: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/.

The changes came out April 15th: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/first#post3957343.

It seems like they could re-overhaul the system quite quickly if they wanted to. “We hear your feedback,” is different from, “we acknowledge that there are these specific problems and we’re working to fix them.”

Anet should understand that the passionate feedback in this thread is valuable. The reason it’s here is because the game was better before this change. Many of us aren’t playing as much as we did before and thus not buying gems. We also aren’t recommending the game, which leads to lower sales.

@ felassan:

Indeed. The point for me, of asking questions 10/11 were to highlight how damaging the code of silence can be. If we don’t know for certain they are being worked on, because tey can’t tell us, and we can’t get any sort of timeframe, even to the point of double the games life to see a change to a major cause for concern, we have no evidence or assurance that these issues are, or will ever be worked upon. Again, being told our feedack is valuable is very different to being told that systems will change in response to it.

Not only am I not buying gems and playing as often as I was prior to the April patch (with the exception of Halloween), and not only am I not recommending the game, I am actively discouraging my friends from purchasing and/or returning to the game. Additionally, I’m making sure new players know that traits used to cost 2g60s to unlock all of them. And that they used to be obtainable starting at level 11.

Eitri.2608:

The reason people are wondering why it’s taking so long is because it seemed like the trait overhaul was implemented quite quickly.

The changes were announced officially on March 20: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/.

The changes came out April 15th: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/first#post3957343.

It seems like they could re-overhaul the system quite quickly if they wanted to. “We hear your feedback,” is different from, “we acknowledge that there are these specific problems and we’re working to fix them.”

Anet should understand that the passionate feedback in this thread is valuable. The reason it’s here is because the game was better before this change. Many of us aren’t playing as much as we did before and thus not buying gems. We also aren’t recommending the game, which leads to lower sales.

I think trying to understand the time spent on the overhaul, using the space between announcement date and the release date is flawed.

Mainly because of Anet’s policy on not announcing anything until the very last stretch means that we don’t hear of it until the last moments, which is also a big deal because it’s too late to say “you done goofed up, guys!…This needs to be fixed”
(Considering ANet’s development of GW2 continually seems to lack foresight before the backlash begins)

I agree and didn’t mean to imply that they implemented the whole system in two weeks, just that it shouldn’t take six months to even get acknowledgement of which issues they recognize and are trying to fix. From their silence it seems like they stand behind the system as it stands.

“Mainly because of Anet’s policy on not announcing anything until the very last stretch means that we don’t hear of it until the last moments”

Safety net so they can blame bugs.