Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

galens stuff edited for space.

snip

I respectfully disagree. Its actually Identical, The reason your values are different is because you have a miscalculation I am afraid.

Your units are 30 mins for a daily and 10 hours for a monthly. I agree. But you miscalculated the time required for the daily player. You claim it takes him/her 14 hrs to finish both the dailies and the monthlies. Thats incorrect. It takes 12hrs to finish the dailies and 10 hrs to finish the monthly for a total of 22hrs per 4 weeks. 40 laurels in 22 hrs = 1.8 laurels exactly the same how you calculated the weekend player would get.

Thats the whole point of the system to get 20 laurels any player needs to put in either 10 dailies and a monthly or 20 dailies.

Irrespective of how much you play at 30mins per daily and 10 hrs per monthly it will take you either 15 hrs if you go the daily + monthly route or 10 hrs if you go the daily only route.

I agree with you that the achievement system isnt exactly a reliable method of getting extra laurels, its just a minor help here and there. Thats important though. I strongly believe in the importance that ascended gear takes a long time to get. I am sure you agree with me that for some players cosmetic rewards are just not a valid incentive. They always want BiS which means that once these players fully gear their characters Arenanet will be in a nasty position. Do they ignore these players or do they introduce a new gear tier to give them more rewards to work towards? Time gating is the only way to balance that without negatively affecting casuals. Like you say correctly going forward ascended gear acquisition will speed up because people can use dailies, crafting and fractals in parallel to gear up opening that further be removing time gating from each of these would be very bad imho because hardcore players will gear up in no time and that dreaded time when anet would need to decide if its time to introduce a new tier or not would come too quickly. At least like this they have more time to work on horizontal progression, perhaps that will be engaging enough to make non cosmetic reward players happy. Dont know.. we’ll see.

I do agree with you that as method of acquiring ascended gear dailies is a pretty boring method. There is no feeling of having truly earned it and thats a down side I agree. There is a positive side to it though that at least it just takes less then 30 mins per day you play to sort that part out. Playing the content you enjoy will get most of the daily sorted and you’ll be left with a few minutes more to sort the rest out if at all.
Whats the alternative though? I cant think of one. Unless Arenanet decide not to care about how long it takes to get a single ascended item (which like I explained would in my opinion be a bad idea) all other methods I can think of would involve unpleasant amounts of grinding for casual players and they’ll still will be less likely to keep up then they are now in my opinion.

most times, doing the daily everyday will complete the monthly without trying.

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

if its fun its not grinding. No one considers movement as grinding but its the most repetative task you’ll ever do in an MMO… just consider how many times you pressed AWSD

One thing though…. so a boring repetitive task becomes somehow fun if the reward is good ?

Galen Grey.4709:

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

if its fun its not grinding. No one considers movement as grinding but its the most repetative task you’ll ever do in an MMO… just consider how many times you pressed AWSD

One thing though…. so a boring repetitive task becomes somehow fun if the reward is good ?

It can be. Having a goal gives you a different perspective. For example:

If you are waiting for someone and they are late it can get boring right? But then you get a phone call and they tell you they’ll be there in 10 mins. This could definitely change your view on things.

Never understimate the importance of having goals. It gives meaning to activities, so that they are no longer pointless to you.

So yes, having a goal, a target can make an activity more fun or worthwhile.

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

I agree here, if the grind was worth it Rewards vs Risk/Time i’d have no issues with GW2, but as the OP and this quoted person said its not fun at all and i just moved on, i play mmo’s to enjoy myself and get worthy rewards for my time, in GW2 you get nothing and they expect you to waste your life on tedious things..

I moved to games where i don’t have these issues..hopefully one day GW2 will wake up and see the error of its ways..

phys.7689:

most times, doing the daily everyday will complete the monthly without trying.

Dont really think thats true, it will get some of it done but far from all of it. However even if it were you’re being unfair by suggesting that if the 10 hours of the monthly are spent in pursuit of dailies it somehow would negate those 10 hrs. This is why I said in my original reply to you that counting dailies and monthlies in terms of time is a bad idea since they’re not really a time bound task. No matter what you’re doing, dailies, monthlies / whatever at the end of the day it all counts as just playing the game. Just cause you got some of those 10 hrs done in your pursuit of dailies it doesnt mean you didnt do the entire 10 hrs required to complete that daily.

Let me put out this way. I dont pursuit monthlies and dailies directly, in most cases they get done automatically as i play the game, sometimes I spend a few minutes to finish off a daily and perhaps an hour or so at the end of the month to finish off anything i might have remaining. Does that mean I can say it takes me just an hour or two to do 30 dailies and a monthly? No, my goal doesnt dictate where time spent is allocated.

What I am trying to say is if you’re saying my dailies are shaving off time from my monthly then others can claim so are dynamic events, doing dungeons, doing WvW etc.. At which point calculating the time it takes to finish these achievements will become pointless.

Gehenna.3625:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

if its fun its not grinding. No one considers movement as grinding but its the most repetative task you’ll ever do in an MMO… just consider how many times you pressed AWSD

One thing though…. so a boring repetitive task becomes somehow fun if the reward is good ?

It can be. Having a goal gives you a different perspective. For example:

If you are waiting for someone and they are late it can get boring right? But then you get a phone call and they tell you they’ll be there in 10 mins. This could definitely change your view on things.

Never understimate the importance of having goals. It gives meaning to activities, so that they are no longer pointless to you.

So yes, having a goal, a target can make an activity more fun or worthwhile.

Dont think I agree. In your scenario the call didnt make the waiting interesting or pleasurable, it just made you happy the waiting is nearly over. In any case you already knew you were meeting this person when you started the wait so the goal (meeting this person) was always there but that didnt make the waiting any kitten ring.

Dante.1508:

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

I agree here, if the grind was worth it Rewards vs Risk/Time i’d have no issues with GW2, but as the OP and this quoted person said its not fun at all and i just moved on, i play mmo’s to enjoy myself and get worthy rewards for my time, in GW2 you get nothing and they expect you to waste your life on tedious things..

I moved to games where i don’t have these issues..hopefully one day GW2 will wake up and see the error of its ways..

Problem with this is whats a worthy reward?

Some people thing more powerful items are a worthy reward… other people thing more powerful items are pointless. Some people thing cosmetic items are a worthy reward…. others think those are pointless.

What makes one right and the other wrong?

Galen Grey.4709:

Gehenna.3625:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

if its fun its not grinding. No one considers movement as grinding but its the most repetative task you’ll ever do in an MMO… just consider how many times you pressed AWSD

One thing though…. so a boring repetitive task becomes somehow fun if the reward is good ?

It can be. Having a goal gives you a different perspective. For example:

If you are waiting for someone and they are late it can get boring right? But then you get a phone call and they tell you they’ll be there in 10 mins. This could definitely change your view on things.

Never understimate the importance of having goals. It gives meaning to activities, so that they are no longer pointless to you.

So yes, having a goal, a target can make an activity more fun or worthwhile.

Dont think I agree. In your scenario the call didnt make the waiting interesting or pleasurable, it just made you happy the waiting is nearly over. In any case you already knew you were meeting this person when you started the wait so the goal (meeting this person) was always there but that didnt make the waiting any kitten ring.

It’s the expectation of what’s to come that changes perception. Perception is reality. Maybe it makes no difference to you but I think that a lot of boredom is not because an activity isn’t fun but because there is no clear goal and therefore is considered pointless.

My view is that when something feels pointless, that’s what makes it boring specifically, more even than the repetition. Of course, not everybody works the same way or has the same triggers, but I think you’ll find a lot of people actually enjoy things more when they know they will be rewarded. It adds some excitement to otherwise mundane activities. And let’s be honest, the history of mankind is nothing but repetition and full of things that aren’t fun. People deal with that differently however when they know they’re doing it for something they consider worthwhile.

Games always have repetition and there is no game where every activity is fun. This is simply a fact of life. People just get fed up with it when there is no meaning to it. There needs to be a point to it.

So waiting without knowing how long, or even if the person is going to show up or not adds to the boredom and annoyance. Games have the same. If you have no idea how long it will take you to get a specific reward or if you even are going to get that reward, a number of people will get annoyed and leave.

Galen Grey.4709:

Dante.1508:

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

I agree here, if the grind was worth it Rewards vs Risk/Time i’d have no issues with GW2, but as the OP and this quoted person said its not fun at all and i just moved on, i play mmo’s to enjoy myself and get worthy rewards for my time, in GW2 you get nothing and they expect you to waste your life on tedious things..

I moved to games where i don’t have these issues..hopefully one day GW2 will wake up and see the error of its ways..

Problem with this is whats a worthy reward?

Some people thing more powerful items are a worthy reward… other people thing more powerful items are pointless. Some people thing cosmetic items are a worthy reward…. others think those are pointless.

What makes one right and the other wrong?

Exactly, so that’s why game developers should give people options for rewards. Especially MMOs need different types of rewards, you simply can’t cater to just one category of people if you want to have a lot of players.

Gehenna.3625:

It’s the expectation of what’s to come that changes perception. Perception is reality. Maybe it makes no difference to you but I think that a lot of boredom is not because an activity isn’t fun but because there is no clear goal and therefore is considered pointless.

My view is that when something feels pointless, that’s what makes it boring specifically, more even than the repetition. Of course, not everybody works the same way or has the same triggers, but I think you’ll find a lot of people actually enjoy things more when they know they will be rewarded. It adds some excitement to otherwise mundane activities. And let’s be honest, the history of mankind is nothing but repetition and full of things that aren’t fun. People deal with that differently however when they know they’re doing it for something they consider worthwhile.

Games always have repetition and there is no game where every activity is fun. This is simply a fact of life. People just get fed up with it when there is no meaning to it. There needs to be a point to it.

So waiting without knowing how long, or even if the person is going to show up or not adds to the boredom and annoyance. Games have the same. If you have no idea how long it will take you to get a specific reward or if you even are going to get that reward, a number of people will get annoyed and leave.

Dont get me wrong, I am not disagree with you that rewards are important. Its just take dailies for example. Using laurels you can get BiS gear, you can get Boosts to MF, Karma and XP, you can get endless tonics, mini pets, boosters, guild reputation, best gathering tools in game, mystic forge stuff, lotteries, WvW blueprint, named / cosmetic weapons and armors… basically whatever the best reward for you might be its in there yet most people still consider dailies boring and annoying. Even when all they have to do is the same stuff they’ll be doing should there have been no dailies.

Dont think rewards help as much as you’re saying at the end of the day.

Galen Grey.4709:

Dante.1508:

Kurakura.7281:

Grinding in games can be fun… Grinding in this game is not so fun. The act of repetition isn’t fun and the rewards for it is just garbage.

I agree here, if the grind was worth it Rewards vs Risk/Time i’d have no issues with GW2, but as the OP and this quoted person said its not fun at all and i just moved on, i play mmo’s to enjoy myself and get worthy rewards for my time, in GW2 you get nothing and they expect you to waste your life on tedious things..

I moved to games where i don’t have these issues..hopefully one day GW2 will wake up and see the error of its ways..

Problem with this is whats a worthy reward?

Some people thing more powerful items are a worthy reward… other people thing more powerful items are pointless. Some people thing cosmetic items are a worthy reward…. others think those are pointless.

What makes one right and the other wrong?

Personally worthy rewards are money and or some item we will use a fair while in game (like a new skill ), i do not think the current loot tables are sufficient to keep people enjoying the game over extended periods, i personally think the loot tables need a complete overhaul.

yes new skills would definitely be nice. luckly according to colin’s blog thats in the works too. which is great!

though that being said every 2 weeks we get new skins, many of which look really great. I got 8 skins so far from those events that I am right now using. So dont think its that bad as is.. of course there is always room for improvement and new skills and traits certainly is a good start!

Galen Grey, you can’t really compare getting laurels to farming for gold.
Like others have pointed out, the laurels are time gated and they can’t make up for missing a few days by playing in the weekend. When farming for gold, you can farm whenever you want and for how long you want. Have saturday free? You can farm 16 hours straight and get all the gold you can. If you missed dailies all week, you can’t make up for it in the weekend.

Fortunately for me, i have time to play a bit every day and do my dailies, but i still hate dailies. They create a feeling of having to log on every day or you’re missing out. Yes, if you can’t log on every day, you’re missing out on laurels. If i have to go away for 3 days, i’m missing out on 3 laurels. I can’t get them by playing a few hours more on saturday.

I know they made laurels time gated to prevent the hardcore players to get too far ahead, but maybe they should remove the dailies? Maybe have monthly quests only or weekly quests instead of dailies. That or let people save up the dailies for up to 7 or so days. That way they can catch up in the weekend if they choose to.

You can look at this the way you want. If you do 20 dailies and the monthly this month, you didn’t miss 10 laurels, but made 30.
If i do that, i will say i made 30 laurels, but also that i missed 10.

More grindy by definition. One of the major problems with vertical progression is that a game becomes grindy. You are always grinding in pursuit of keeping up with an ever increasing power level. It’s grindy.

Laurels are the currency of VP. They are a reward and it is VP that is driving the system. You only need to visit a laurel vendor to understand that. When VP was introduced it was localized to one dungeon. This made perfect sense in that this was how WoW did it, why wouldn’t it work here? Well, culturally they are two different games and that didn’t work here. Laurels, through achievements, represented moving VP into other parts of the game. Our achievement system is now driven by VP.

With the last blog post, there seems to be a strong statement that VP is not the way to go and they are offering an element of horizontal progression “instead”. Instead sounds like a strong word to me. What I don’t understand is how VP can be removed without being removed. There has been no announcement about it being removed, simply that we would have something else to do instead. If they add horizontal and leave VP intact, we will still have VP. And, the problem with VP is that it’s grindy.

Colin Johanson: “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. "

wolfie.7296:

Colin Johanson: “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. "

Congratulations. You can take things out of context just like every other politician.
Here’s the whole quote:
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

Viking Jorun.5413:

wolfie.7296:

Colin Johanson: “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. "

Congratulations. You can take things out of context just like every other politician.
Here’s the whole quote:
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

So as long as combat is fun it’s okay if the rest of the game is a boring grindfest?

TooBzkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn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Viking Jorun.5413:

wolfie.7296:

Colin Johanson: “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. "

Congratulations. You can take things out of context just like every other politician.
Here’s the whole quote:
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

So as long as combat is fun it’s okay if the rest of the game is a boring grindfest?

But it isn’t. Only the skins are, really. You don’t EVER have to grind for Ascended gear. The nature of time hating is the fact that you log in, perform a task once a day for X days and get your reward for something fairly simple, so if you think ascended gear is a grind that’s a pretty sad excuse. The only GRIND in the game is for skins. That’s the nature of horizontal progression. If you think GW2 is grindy in any way, play Guild Wars 1. That game moved mountains in its enginuity for removing “grind”. You aren’t forced to repeat the same task over and over. Simply playing the game rewards you as it would should you CHOOSE to grind for gold/karma/etc. They’ve put Diminishing Returns in the game for a reason; so that you’re forced to not grind. You’ve got so many options to progress yourself in the game that this concept you call grind is a sad excuse for not enjoying the game because of an entitled opinion that you absolutely must have skin Y.

If you don’t want to look like an idiot, please don’t reply to this post.

Grinding in many other games takes less participation because the numbers on your armor and weapon do most of the work for you. In GW2 you have pay attention and that means noticing the kitteny rewards too and I don’t think Anet bargained for that side effect of their shiny new combat system lol.

VikingkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnJorun.5413:

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

Not really.

When he says, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”, he’s not saying “we don’t want people to grind for levels, but grinding gear is ok”. He is saying that grind is bad because grind is not fun (and it isn’t). There isn’t any way to make it clearer than saying “no one finds it fun”.

By removing grind, combat isn’t just a matter of mindlessly killing a big number of enemies as quickly and as easily as possible, so it would definitely change how people see combat.

Unfortunatelly, ArenaNet changed their minds and decided to make a game filled with grind. The result is that their plan – to make a MMO for people who don’t like MMOs – failed. The GW2 community is made by the same grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters who populate all other MMOs, and little else.

It’s not grindy unless you grind. They give you options to do pretty much anything in the game and reward you for it.

From the perspective of the player described below this game is not grindy.

Plays 3 hours per week roughly.
Just now dinged 80 on his main.
Nearly completed his personal story.
Does not even know what a daily is other than sometimes a chest pops up.
Has done ac 2/3 and story modes up to lvl se.
Intends to do a dungeon path once per week and only each dungeon path once so finished spring of 2014.
Once he hit 80 I used visa to gear him in exotics.

This is my kid and I have no intention of him grinding kitten all. He has me guiding him away from grinding. Myself Ive played way too much. Grinding is a choice.

Yes after a thousand or more hours it will feel like a grind. Again choice.

OP I think you need to evaluate what it is you are playing the game for. I really think a lot of your issue is one of perspective. Rather than playing this game as an addictive fix and a grind, you need to do the aspects that you find entertaining and fun to play. The rewards will come on their own.

Erasculio.2914:

Viking Jorun.5413:

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

Not really.

When he says, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”, he’s not saying “we don’t want people to grind for levels, but grinding gear is ok”. He is saying that grind is bad because grind is not fun (and it isn’t). There isn’t any way to make it clearer than saying “no one finds it fun”.

By removing grind, combat isn’t just a matter of mindlessly killing a big number of enemies as quickly and as easily as possible, so it would definitely change how people see combat.

Unfortunatelly, ArenaNet changed their minds and decided to make a game filled with grind. The result is that their plan – to make a MMO for people who don’t like MMOs – failed. The GW2 community is made by the same grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters who populate all other MMOs, and little else.

Actually, in the written manifesto, the statements follow the section on combat. It’s a new paragraph that begins to summarize all that has gone before. This makes sense as the statements don’t really have anything to do with combat; ‘grind’ is not even remotely associated with a games combat systems.

Its pretty hillarious how GW2 failed to deliver on almost everything it advertised itself as.

-No Trinity? Yes, yes there is, its just (and I didn’t it could be) more ret@rded.
-Action packed and original PvE encounters? Bwahahahahaha
-Not gonna bother balancing PvP! /facepalm worthy, seriously, its ALL they’ve been doing, mainly at the expense of PvE, which an MMO is supposed to be all about. Double facepalm for you Anet
-Fun and varied live events! >Faction A is in town, grind tokens, open casino boxes.
-Beautiful art designs > This is the only one they got right, and even then, have you seen the medium armors?

Disapointment. That is all.

Raine.1394:

Erasculio.2914:

Viking Jorun.5413:

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

Not really.

When he says, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”, he’s not saying “we don’t want people to grind for levels, but grinding gear is ok”. He is saying that grind is bad because grind is not fun (and it isn’t). There isn’t any way to make it clearer than saying “no one finds it fun”.

By removing grind, combat isn’t just a matter of mindlessly killing a big number of enemies as quickly and as easily as possible, so it would definitely change how people see combat.

Unfortunatelly, ArenaNet changed their minds and decided to make a game filled with grind. The result is that their plan – to make a MMO for people who don’t like MMOs – failed. The GW2 community is made by the same grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters who populate all other MMOs, and little else.

Actually, in the written manifesto, the statements follow the section on combat. It’s a new paragraph that begins to summarize all that has gone before. This makes sense as the statements don’t really have anything to do with combat; ‘grind’ is not even remotely associated with a games combat systems.

This is a really good point. The actual statement in the written manifesto is

It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

If you need your hand held to know how to have fun, you might not enjoy being able to do what you want. (It also means you can’t do what you want ‘cause a pirate is free, and you’re not a pirate.)

Galen Grey.4709:

Dont get me wrong, I am not disagree with you that rewards are important. Its just take dailies for example. Using laurels you can get BiS gear, you can get Boosts to MF, Karma and XP, you can get endless tonics, mini pets, boosters, guild reputation, best gathering tools in game, mystic forge stuff, lotteries, WvW blueprint, named / cosmetic weapons and armors… basically whatever the best reward for you might be its in there yet most people still consider dailies boring and annoying. Even when all they have to do is the same stuff they’ll be doing should there have been no dailies.

Dont think rewards help as much as you’re saying at the end of the day.

Ahh but the rewards have to be meaningful, they have to give you a sense of accomplishment and there is the issue I am talking about. Now some of the rewards can be nifty, but I dare say that about 90% of the rewards have little or no meaning to me. Why? Don’t care about the mystic toilet and not enough about WvW to care much about the blueprints. Sure, they’re handy but I don’t really care. Most of the armour rewards in this game look like crap. Just bad design in my view.

It’s only when they go back to their roots, I see a glimmer of what I like. For example the new version of chaos gloves that you get from an achievement box. They’re pretty cool, though rather a heavy armour look but that works for my guardian.

Listen, I am level 50 and I have something like 150k karma at the moment. I haven’t played for a while but I think the exotic gear in Orr was about 42k a piece or something. I have about 15 gold I think. By the time I get to level 80 I can pretty much gear up to exotic gear instantly I’m pretty sure and I will save my laurels for the ascended trinkets. I am sure I’ll be able to get at least a couple by the time I get to 80. So then when I get to 80 I just do dailies till I can get the other trinkets and presto I’m done. I don’t give a flying you-know-what about legendary weapons and I am not interested in dungeons because I don’t like a single armour set from any of the dungeons for my guardian.

So you tell me, what that leaves me with, because honestly if you take the legendary out and the 20-30 minute dungeon runs just for cash, then what does this game have to offer really for level 80? No, I’ll be casual and my gear will be fine. Not gonna care much about infusions and all because I won’t set foot in that tetris dungeon called FotM either.

No, just leveling and messing around a bit suits me just fine. I am truly impressed with anybody who finds this game appealing for hours and hours month after month. Really, I don’t get how people can play this game seriously or hardcore if you prefer. It’s a bit of fun, mucking about a bit. No more.

Zoia.3678:

Galen Grey, you can’t really compare getting laurels to farming for gold. …

yes and no….

Yes of course you can log on a Saturday and play twice as much as you generally would, do a 16 hrs straight session and earn 4g instead of 2g. No because having not logged on monday – friday you still missed out on the potential income of that day.

Let me elaborate. I dont think dailies are meant to stop hardcore players from going too far ahead… they dont do that at all. A hardcore player will likely log on everyday, I am sure there are a lot of casuals that log on during weekends only. hardcore player is still 3x ahead casual using the daily system. No what dailies do is set a fix longevity to a reward. Lets take ascended gear as an example. Ascended gear require 20 laurels so irrespective if you’re the most hardcore player in the universe or the most casual player in the universe you both it will both take you exactly 20 days of playing the game to get that ascended gear. If they used gold and wanted to still have that 20 days life time for a single ascended gear piece (which longevity is very important for this game imho) it would be a massive problem. Like you said with gold there is no time gate so someone is free to log in and play 16hrs straight. Further more what you play changes things drastically. Someone who does 16hrs of dynamic events might earn 4g. Someone who does 16hrs of CoF P1 might earn even close to 125g. So what price do you put on a single ascended armor piece if you want it to last 20 days? (I hope you read one of my other posts on why that 20 days is important, if not let me know I will explain again no problem)

Do you price a single piece a whooping 2500g ? just to make sure the hardcore of the hardcore still require 20 days to get a single piece? or do you price it 80g ? If you price it 80g… some will still get it in a day… the hardcore of the hardcore who does 8hrs of cof will get it in 8hrs in fact. How about the daily problem? did that solve the problem? Not at all, playing 16hrs on saturday is not enough you need to actually play 16hrs everyday now for 20days where as with dailies you only needed to play 30 minutes everyday.

You see the thing is, this is a medium term reward. something thats supposed to take 20 days of work to get. Perception wise dailies seem a problem because not everyone can play every day so if you only get 3 laurels in a week as opposed to 7 you’d think thakittens a shame because I could easily play twice as much in the weekend and make up for the other 5. Thats the wrong perception though in my opinion simply because the effort required for a daily is purposefully miniscule. the reason a daily takes 30 minutes is because you’re caped to 1 per day but its supposed to represent a days play so to speak.

What I am trying to say probably not very well is 20 dailies take approximately 10 hrs of work. But there is no way Arenanet meant you could get a single ascended piece in 10hrs. I takes 10hrs to get an exotic piece and this is something thats supposed to stand between exotic and legendary that take months. Just look at items such as the Sclerite Karka Shell that can be converted from exotic to ascended… you need the exotic item that takes about 10hrs to make we said (though in this case you cannot make it) you need 250 karka shells, 100 passion flowers and 50 ectos.

karka shell drop like 1 per 10 minutes or can be bought for 3s which is roughly what you expect to earn in 2 dynamic events which again would take about 10 mins. This adds another 40 or so hours. 100 passion flowers are at 6s each and have a aworst drop rate then shells so this is another 30 hours at least … and 50 ectos using the same 3s per 10 minutes thats another 50 hrs. So coverting that exotic to an ascended equivalent takes 130hrs which if we go by the 20 days per ascended gear item it would come to 6.5hrs per day which means my values probably make sense. I would use 8hrs per day but probably arenanet want to be more casual friendly so they went to a more conservative 6.5hrs. But you see the difference between dailies and direct requirements. how many 16 hr saturdays do you need to put in to match the 130hrs required? isnt it much much much better to put in 10hrs spread over 20 days then 130hrs played whenever you wanted?

I know I didnt express myself really well so if you require clarifications on what i am trying to say dont hesitate to ask.

In the en it means that in order to get the best gear in the game, you just have to log in for an hour a day and do some easy dailies 20-30 times.

So the best gear in town is achieved by how many individual days you log in and not by any actual achievement. Again the best rewards are given for logging in, not for actually accomplishing some difficult or challenging.

Mind you it sounds good to me. Getting a top salary for showing up at work and my boss saying: Well I don’t care what you do the rest of the day….Exciting as that sounds, if the reward doesn’t match the effort it becomes meaningless.

Slither Shade.4782:

From the perspective of the player described below this game is not grindy.

Plays 3 hours per week roughly.
Just now dinged 80 on his main.
Nearly completed his personal story.
Does not even know what a daily is other than sometimes a chest pops up.
Has done ac 2/3 and story modes up to lvl se.
Intends to do a dungeon path once per week and only each dungeon path once so finished spring of 2014.
Once he hit 80 I used visa to gear him in exotics.

This is my kid and I have no intention of him grinding kitten all. He has me guiding him away from grinding. Myself Ive played way too much. Grinding is a choice.

Yes after a thousand or more hours it will feel like a grind. Again choice.

I am within reach of a 1000 hours and still doesnt feel a grind. Whether the game feels a grind or not like you said is a personal choice. I it takes 20 laurels to get me amulet and I just have to log every day to ensure I get those 20 laurels as soon as possible then the game will feel like a grind. If I need 120g to get my full t3 cultural set so until I get my full set I am going to run CoF P1 over and over again… then the game will feel like a grind. If I want my legendary and until I get I will systematically grind ingrediant after ingrediant then the game will feel like a grind.

On the other hand if I will login when I feel I want to log in.

If I play the content that I want to play and I am happy making 2g a day rather then 20g a day

If I play the content that I enjoy playing and hording the stuff I need for my legendary and sell the rest…

The game will not feel like a grind, not at 1000 hrs probably not even at twice that.

There is just one thing you need patience. If it takes me 2 months to get my t3 cultural set instead of a week… is it really that bad?

Gehenna.3625:

So you tell me, what that leaves me with, because honestly if you take the legendary out and the 20-30 minute dungeon runs just for cash, then what does this game have to offer really for level 80? No, I’ll be casual and my gear will be fine. Not gonna care much about infusions and all because I won’t set foot in that tetris dungeon called FotM either.

No, just leveling and messing around a bit suits me just fine. I am truly impressed with anybody who finds this game appealing for hours and hours month after month. Really, I don’t get how people can play this game seriously or hardcore if you prefer. It’s a bit of fun, mucking about a bit. No more.

I cannot tell you what works for you but I can tell you what works for me. Like you I dont care about legendary, my main is a necro and bitfrost just doesnt work on a necro for me, final rest / the crossing work much better.

I am not a dungeon person either… there are some skins that work for my character and I will eventually get them but I am not going to farm for them. Sometimes someone in my guild needs 1 more person for a dungeon run and if I am in the mood I will join them if not I will not.

So how do I spent most of my days? mostly working towards skins for my main and 6 alts and exploring content. do guild missions and enjoying the mini games that I like. There is so much content in this game its amazing. I am at around 950 hrs now I think and I have entire zones I didnt explore yet. By Explore I dont mean do 100% map completion, I mean truly explore, learn every story of every NPC, experience every Dynamic event chain from start to finish, Find the hidden areas, Find the hidden events, experience the JP etc.. But I dont grind. I want to experience all the world but if I am enjoying a mini game I will be playing that. If today I feel like playing my memser, I will play her etc… If I saw this great skin and it doesnt take a big effort to get I will do something that gets me closer to that.

I like to think of this game as something close to a sandbox even though clearly its not. There isnt a check list of things that you need to do. This isnt an MMO where reaching lvl 80 means now you need to do the following dungeons in this order. This is more like a sandbox… there is all this out there… hmm today I feel like doing A tomorrow I will feel like B so thats what I am going to do.

This may or may not apply to you, that is something only you can say.

Gehenna.3625:

In the en it means that in order to get the best gear in the game, you just have to log in for an hour a day and do some easy dailies 20-30 times.

So the best gear in town is achieved by how many individual days you log in and not by any actual achievement. Again the best rewards are given for logging in, not for actually accomplishing some difficult or challenging.

Mind you it sounds good to me. Getting a top salary for showing up at work and my boss saying: Well I don’t care what you do the rest of the day….Exciting as that sounds, if the reward doesn’t match the effort it becomes meaningless.

Very well put. yes thats exactly it. Kudos!

Thing is the problem is not that the reward is meaningless. I didnt see anyone complain about dailies because ascended gear isnt a good enough reward. The problem is actually the opposite, for people who hate the system ascended gear is exactly what they want but feel the price for it is too high even though its EXTREMELY discounted by the daily system.

Going with your analogy We’re being paid for a day of work by a token for simply showing up for 30 minutes – 1hr. But people dont want that, they want to drop the token get paid for time worked. They also dont want to work every day, they want to just work weekends. They look at the previous system and say hey I got payed a token for 30 minutes before so If I work 8hrs on a saturday I should get the equivalent of 16 tokens. The problem here is the token was symbolic for a day, if you switch back to the regular pay you’re payed for time and a work day is 8hrs not 1hr. That means with money you can do overtime sure and work 16hrs instead of 8 but that will cover 2 days not 16 days like people are hoping it would. … blah thing I botched the explanation up again.. hope people are getting what I am trying to say.

Erasculio.2914:

Viking Jorun.5413:

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

Not really.

When he says, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”, he’s not saying “we don’t want people to grind for levels, but grinding gear is ok”. He is saying that grind is bad because grind is not fun (and it isn’t). There isn’t any way to make it clearer than saying “no one finds it fun”.

By removing grind, combat isn’t just a matter of mindlessly killing a big number of enemies as quickly and as easily as possible, so it would definitely change how people see combat.

Unfortunatelly, ArenaNet changed their minds and decided to make a game filled with grind. The result is that their plan – to make a MMO for people who don’t like MMOs – failed. The GW2 community is made by the same grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters who populate all other MMOs, and little else.

Now other people are saying things I said. There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Galen Grey.4709:

I know I didnt express myself really well so if you require clarifications on what i am trying to say dont hesitate to ask.

Yea, you kinda lost me when you started to bring up ectos, passion flowers and what not. I think you may be over analyzing just a tad. I still appreciate your answers and think i understand what you’re trying to say.

All i’m saying is that dailies may not be the best way when it comes to laurels.
Personally, i have plenty of time to log in every day to do my dailies, but not everyone does. For those that don’t do fractals, or are in too small a guild to do guild missions, laurels is the only way to get ascended gear.
If they can only play during the weekend on top of that, it will take a long, long time to get enough laurels to equip a character with ascended accessories. Maybe half a year or longer. There is no way for them to make up for it by playing more during the weekend.

Perhaps it would be better to get rid of the dailies and make them weekly quests? The time spent to complete a weekly should be about the same as 7 dailies. People could then choose if they wanted to spend 30 min a day or 3,5 hours during the weekend.
That or let people save up a few dailies. It would be great, even if we could only save up to 3 dailies.

Imo, daily quests are a cheap way of getting people to log on every day. If the game is fun, we will log in as often as possible because we enjoy playing it, not because they make us feel like we’re missing out if we don’t.
It would be fine if the daily rewarded only karma or gold, but not when it’s one of the few ways to get a certain currency.

What if the dailies were accumulative? You miss a day? Then the next day you can do the achievements necessary to do both days in one go.

I know there is a list but I’ll just go with 3 to keep it simpl…

Day 1: You need to complete 4 group events, kill 50 mobs and interupt 10 times.

Day 2: You need to complete 10 events (any), kill 50 mobs and dodge 10 times.

You missed out on day one and log in on day two, you are faced with…

4 group events
10 events
100 mobs
10 interupts
10 dodges

So you decide to get started. You do the 4 group events and durring this time you were able to dodge 8 times and interupt 5. You got 15 kills in the process. This would leave you with…

6 events
85 kills
5 interupts
2 dodges

Now you fight some regular mobs to get the interupst out of the way. You were able to do it only killing two mobs in the process.

You are now left with 83 mobs to kill. After killing 33 you get awarded a chest as you finished enough to complete one of the dailies. Cronological order would dictate that day 1 is complete. You then kill another 50 and get the second chest.

It’s still 1 laurel per day but it’s now ok to miss days since you can make up for lost time.

As for monthly. If you do a daily every day, the progress also goes towards your monthly. So after a months worth of dailies, you should be close to completing the monthly as well. So this wouldn’t change.

However, for the sake of saving memory, the line has to be drawn somewhere. It’s a wast of space to have accounts not being used accumulating info like this. So I think the monthly would make a good cut-off. When the monthly resets, so do the accumulated dailies.

Vayne.8563:

There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Really?

Ok, let’s read the clarification:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Fun reward” = gear, for example.

Ergo, guess what Vayne? And, for the records, this has been mentioned in this topic already.

A good editor would have noticed it.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Really?

Ok, let’s read the clarification:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Fun reward” = gear, for example.

Ergo, guess what Vayne? And, for the records, this has been mentioned in this topic already.

A good editor would have noticed it.

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

It’s rather blind to think that “fun reward” can not also equal gear.

For me a fun reward is anything that I can potentially sell for a decent amount of gold.

Erasculio.2914:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

It’s rather blind to think that “fun reward” can not also equal gear.

I didn’t say it couldn’t, only that it’s a leap to think it MUST.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I didn’t say it couldn’t, only that it’s a leap to think it MUST.

I didn’t say it exclusively must, only that it includes gear.

wel if they would at least let us farm if we actually want to.wvw is expensive and we hardly make money with it. upgrades, food and then all the siege. so we go farm for mats we can sell, but anet punishes u for farming with diminish return. i farm for 1 hour and then all i get is 1 or 2 salvageables and whites.
i mean there are mmos out there like ro where all u do is farming for hours and yes there are bots and afk genetics, but i remember i actually had fun farming as i got rewarded for it.
anet nerfs every good spot and there are people that actually love to farm!

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Really?

Ok, let’s read the clarification:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Fun reward” = gear, for example.

Ergo, guess what Vayne? And, for the records, this has been mentioned in this topic already.

A good editor would have noticed it.

Actually, most people don’t say fun=gear. Gear is an item you get. It’s not fun in and of itself. They’re talking about things you DO. You don’t do gear. At least I don’t do gear. They’re talking about combat…doing fun things in game, instead of having to grind to get to the fun things.

You can’t possibly believe that they’re talking about grinding for gear and out of every single post you’ve made about this, this is the one where most people will stop taking you seriously.

Fun things TO DO. You don’t do gear. Nice try.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Erasculio.2914:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

It’s rather blind to think that “fun reward” can not also equal gear.

I didn’t say it couldn’t, only that it’s a leap to think it MUST.

The word reward isn’t used at all in there. They were talking about what you DO not what you get.

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Erasculio.2914:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

It’s rather blind to think that “fun reward” can not also equal gear.

I didn’t say it couldn’t, only that it’s a leap to think it MUST.

The word reward isn’t used at all in there. They were talking about what you DO not what you get.

Possibly, but I was talking about the quoted post from my original

Vayne.8563:

The word reward isn’t used at all in there. They were talking about what you DO not what you get.

Oh, it is. You didn’t bother to read the link I posted above, or you would have seen it. That’s why your second statement is wrong – it specifically mentions not grinding for fun rewards. Guess what are rewards in GW2? Among other things, yes, gear.

What were you saying again about people taking others seriously? I would seriously suggest paying more attention to posts you are replying to.

Erasculio.2914:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

It’s rather blind to think that “fun reward” can not also equal gear.

But you don’t have to “grind” first before you can start getting fun rewards
You can start getting “fun rewards” from the low levels.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

The word reward isn’t used at all in there. They were talking about what you DO not what you get.

Oh, it is. You didn’t bother to read the link I posted above, or you would have seen it. That’s why your second statement is wrong – it specifically mentions not grinding for fun rewards. Guess what are rewards in GW2? Among other things, yes, gear.

What were you saying again about people taking others seriously? I would seriously suggest paying more attention to posts you are replying to.

I don’t know about you, but I’m talking about the manifesto video. I ’m sure someone can show you the post where Eric Flannum said straight out there would be stuff to grind for for those who like that play style.

The manifesto isn’t talking about gear grind as you’ve claimed it is on numerous occasions. Now you’re just backpedaling. Credible much?

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto isn’t talking about gear grind as you’ve claimed it is on numerous occasions. Now you’re just backpedaling. Credible much?

It’s hard to take seriously someone who doesn’t even read what he’s replying to.

Do you remember the argument you use the most? “ArenaNet released clarification with the Manifesto”, although you never link it?

Well, ArenaNet did release clarification. It’s a blog entry called “Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto”, which clarifies – use your m4d 3dit0r skills here to get this – the Manifesto video.

And what does the written Manifesto say? That the game wouldn’t have grind for fun rewards. Guess what are rewards in the game? Hint: ArenaNet has just released a blog about it, and yes, it includes gear.

Really, it takes a lot of denial to not see this. The Manifesto was wrong. Even the clarification of the Manifesto was wrong.