Guild Wars 2

So many threads like this… So why start another?

Getting dungeon armor isn’t that hard I think and fotm is optional. The only point I agree with is the weapon tickets part. No one likes rng.

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

So many threads like this… So why start another?

So the same person can make a reply saying he’s wrong, GW2 is the best game in the world, and which mmorpg don’t have grind. And start making comparison to every other mmorpg and tell you how great GW2 is and how every other game is more grindy.

And in fact he’ll probably tell you, you are playing the game wrong.

Penguin.5197:

Getting dungeon armor isn’t that hard I think and fotm is optional. The only point I agree with is the weapon tickets part. No one likes rng.

The thing is when that’s all you have for endgame… What else are you going to do? Stand around and talk on map chat all day? RP is great & all but I don’t want to do it 24/7 in GW2.

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do.

That was assuming the game would be bought by people who did not want to grind.

That’s not what happened. The GW2 community is made by the players of those “many other MMOs” who want to grind, farm and exploit. ArenaNet is just giving its players what they are asking for.

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

And you know when I want to do that stuff I will go and play rift because it’s going FtP. So yeah I’m done with the GW2 needs to be like WoW and needs end game like WoW no no it does not need to be like WoW and have raids like WoW.

And when I want to play a game like that I will play Rift.

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do. And yet as soon as you get to endgame, the only endgame options that are really there is to grind.

• FOTM= Grind!

• You want that dungeon armor set? Grind the hell out of that dungeon until you end up venomously hating dungeons!

• Want that awesome weapon skin from the event?! Well first you have a 0.004% chance to get the crate, and then you have another 0.004% chance to get a weapon skin ticket in that crate. Basically, more grind!

ANet, you’ve created an endless cycle of grind for endgame, and you lied to everyone who bought your game. I love GW2 but it has in no way delivered on it’s promises.

Because everything you listed is a cosmetic upgrade, and because cosmetic upgrades aren’t required to play the game, you’re not being required to grind anything. The only thing you’ve got a legitimate complaint on is Fractals, but that was designed specifically for grinders. Complaining about grinding in Fractals is like going to a strip club to complain about nudity.

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Thing is I don’t have to grind those dungeons if I don’t want to. I don’t need to go all out for cosmetic upgrades and grind for them.

cryforthemoon.9326:

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Thing is I don’t have to grind those dungeons if I don’t want to.

So what do you actually do? beside pvp and wvw.

laokoko.7403:

cryforthemoon.9326:

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Thing is I don’t have to grind those dungeons if I don’t want to.

So what do you actually do? beside pvp and wvw.

Whatever I want to in the game. PvP WvW, events whatever I want to do I do it. I go back and I even do low level quests and I have fun doing all of that. End game is what ever I want it to be in this game.

darkace.8925:

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do. And yet as soon as you get to endgame, the only endgame options that are really there is to grind.

• FOTM= Grind!

• You want that dungeon armor set? Grind the hell out of that dungeon until you end up venomously hating dungeons!

• Want that awesome weapon skin from the event?! Well first you have a 0.004% chance to get the crate, and then you have another 0.004% chance to get a weapon skin ticket in that crate. Basically, more grind!

ANet, you’ve created an endless cycle of grind for endgame, and you lied to everyone who bought your game. I love GW2 but it has in no way delivered on it’s promises.

Because everything you listed is a cosmetic upgrade, and because cosmetic upgrades aren’t required to play the game, you’re not being required to grind anything. The only thing you’ve got a legitimate complaint on is Fractals, but that was designed specifically for grinders. Complaining about grinding in Fractals is like going to a strip club to complain about nudity.

You’ve really lost the whole entire point haven’t you? THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO FOR PVE PLAYERS! Does endgame consist of standing around talking in map chat all day? Because that’s what you’re basically telling me.

cryforthemoon.9326:

laokoko.7403:

cryforthemoon.9326:

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Thing is I don’t have to grind those dungeons if I don’t want to.

So what do you actually do? beside pvp and wvw.

Whatever I want to in the game. PvP WvW, events whatever I want to do I do it. I go back and I even do low level quests and I have fun doing all of that. End game is what ever I want it to be in this game.

Like I already stated, I am not a PvPer, and going back and doing lower lvl quests isn’t endgame content.

Beligerent.1324:

You’ve really lost the whole entire point haven’t you? THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO FOR PVE PLAYERS! Does endgame consist of standing around talking in map chat all day? Because that’s what you’re basically telling me.

I’m almost exclusively a PvEer and I get by just find doing the same things now I enjoyed about the game when I first started playing. If I didn’t enjoy those aspects then, I would have stopped playing a long time ago.

If the only thing left for you in the game is to grind and if you don’t enjoy grinding then you’d be much better off taking a break from the game until something that interests you is implemented in a future content update/expansion.

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

laokoko.7403:

cryforthemoon.9326:

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Thing is I don’t have to grind those dungeons if I don’t want to.

So what do you actually do? beside pvp and wvw.

Whatever I want to in the game. PvP WvW, events whatever I want to do I do it. I go back and I even do low level quests and I have fun doing all of that. End game is what ever I want it to be in this game.

Like I already stated, I am not a PvPer, and going back and doing lower lvl quests isn’t endgame content.

So all you really want is WoW style raids for more gear. Got it umm why don’t you go play WoW then I hear that they are bleeding subs right now.

Beligerent.1324:

THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO FOR PVE PLAYERS*! Does endgame consist of standing around talking in map chat all day? Because that’s what you’re basically telling me.

They’re running the Living Story content with new content every 2 weeks, plenty of time to complete the content (more than enough for some) and it gets refreshed every two weeks.

But please share with us what you suggest GW2 add to prevent the unnecessary (since it’s only for cosmetics) “endgame” (which doesn’t exist here anyway) grind?

And if you suggest raids with rewards only available through them you’ll only be countering your own argument that GW2 is a grind by suggesting a grind option.

I’ve played grind games, and I’m thrilled that GW2 gives me the option to choose what I want to do without hurting my character’s development one iota. If I want to pvp it’s there, I can do it all day and my toon won’t “fall behind.” I can farm for map completion and mats. I can run dungeons if I want.

Honestly if you’re having trouble finding something to do you either lack imagination or should probably drop MMO’s altogether.

Basically there really isn’t much to do, and that is exactly why me and many people are playing this game.

Take a look at the reply in this post. I ask people what they do, and the reply I get is, I do what ever I want to do ( without listing anything which really is doing nothing ), and talk about running around areas they already went to doing nothing.

And the living story content which is produced every 15-30 days can be consumed in 2 hours.

But that is also the good thing because not everyone have the time to sit through raid like a second job.

Beligerent.1324:

Penguin.5197:

Getting dungeon armor isn’t that hard I think and fotm is optional. The only point I agree with is the weapon tickets part. No one likes rng.

The thing is when that’s all you have for endgame… What else are you going to do? Stand around and talk on map chat all day? RP is great & all but I don’t want to do it 24/7 in GW2.

I think I’ve found your problem. You expect to play enough each day that 24/7 seems to be an appropriate descriptor. Games cannot deliver that amount of absorbing play for months on end without repetition.

Erasculio.2914:

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do.

That was assuming the game would be bought by people who did not want to grind.

That’s not what happened. The GW2 community is made by the players of those “many other MMOs” who want to grind, farm and exploit. ArenaNet is just giving its players what they are asking for.

Very true. Could be the greatest game in the world, totally revolutionize the whole industry, set ground breaking standards and give total accessibility to even the most casual of player but because it doesn’t give people dungeons to grind out cash and gear folks will hate it.
Frankly I’m more disheartened by Anet’s total 180ing or complete abandonment of so many of it’s core intentions on Gw2’s direction than anything else. Developer’s have got to start sticking to their guns when it comes to producing games, yeah people complain about Warcraft but they where at least up front about what you here getting yourself into. It was a time eater with lots of end game grind, most games are in one way or another, it’s unavoidable. The issue is a matter of the grind being forgivable because in the end it’s worth it or is it brain numbingly boring and totally pointless. Only the individual can really say. Players will either love a game or hate it, move on to something else or stick with it. Flip flopping doesn’t help the situation, it can very easily backfire and kill a large part of a game’s core player base and/or totally fail to entice the new target audience thereby potentially destroying a franchise. It can also creates a polarization in the player community between those who love or hate the game.

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

So many threads like this… So why start another?

There needs to be many more threads on RNG grind.

laokoko.7403:

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

So many threads like this… So why start another?

So the same person can make a reply saying he’s wrong, GW2 is the best game in the world, and which mmorpg don’t have grind. And start making comparison to every other mmorpg and tell you how great GW2 is and how every other game is more grindy.

And in fact he’ll probably tell you, you are playing the game wrong.

ahah saw what you did there let the Vhammer hit the floor.
but seriously I THINK that the main problem with gw2 atm is the lack of replayability
seriously a mmorpg content will get extinguished pretty fast cause well it isn’t infinite and if you want the content to attract players who already went through it you will need 2 things the experience and the reward.
so the experience (what the player feel after going through the content mostly the combats and the puzzles) will have an impact on replayablility if it is the same after 20(or player X limit) runs the player will get bored and the same if the experience feels too ‘easy ’(here i am talking about the combat well dunno if easy is the right word).
then you have the reward if one activity offers something unique well the player interested my this reward will feel attracted toward this activity. But there is a balance that needs to be set between the experience and the reward if the if the first is really enjoyable but the second aspect is missing: well it might get some players to do it over again numerous type but most players won’t the second case(+reward -experience) will get a lot of players doing one activity it may seem good at first sight but really it isn’t cause this king of design tend to have a really bad effect on the overall economy and community of a mmo.

Now lets look at gw2 at first we really didn’t tend to see any of the 2 extreme(in fact it didn’t seem like there was some kind of balance) but actually the second case is slowly appearing ie: world bosses chests and southsun mf buff, and I really feel like the game would take an irreversible route if this kind of system tends to impose itself.
what i think anet should do is to look back at their initial ideas: first the combat; make beating the same boos feels at least a little different for each fight give them better AI and a lot (a awful lot) of patterns this alone would make the playstyle get very diverse.
Second the rewards; gw2 was supposed to be all about skins why would you stop adding more (not talking about living story related BOXES) make dungeons bosses drop a specific(unique) weapons/skin make a jumping puzzle chest reward with a unique recipe,same for ALL the world events, guild puzzles etc.
Finally the overall experience (i’ll specially talking about dungeons cause this is the thing i do the most) here simply add random elements a random event (like troll) with exclusive reward a final chest dropping a key which is able to open a secret door with more loot ore a micro jumping puzzle with a boos in the end adding more random event will seriously spice the thing up a little and this really is needed to get players to enjoy doing content over and over again.

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

So many threads like this… So why start another?

To explain to Anet people are tired of it? i guess…

First of all I agree, this game could of course be perfected, areas tweaked, classes reworked, skill hunting brought back, sure the game has issues, but are they game breaking? for some the answer is yes, for others no.

Now, the way some players have put some unrealistic expectations on this makes me wonder on the actual state of human maturity, I mean, how much of an emotional investment are some hanging on this?

Really are some so upset to make them over zealous of “features” real or imagined from videogames?
No game will ever cater to all demographics and tastes, as has been commented, this is a business first and foremost before anything else, it is also entertainment with a fixed value of “content” they added most of the grind and features similar to other MMOs because the MAJORITY wanted that in order to keep playing it, and thus generating revenue for Anet.

Im sorry to all of those that felt that this was something else, hopefully it will never be a WoW clone, and hopefully it keeps its essence, but above all, hopefully people realize that this is a game with limited content, people get burnt out of limited content, the devs are not bots, this things take time.

So take a break my disgruntled fellows, maybe one day an infinite MMo will forever change the way we play or live our imaginary lives, in the meantime, this is as good as it gets in my opinion, the grinding as the fun are optional.

Beligerent.1324:

darkace.8925:

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do. And yet as soon as you get to endgame, the only endgame options that are really there is to grind.

• FOTM= Grind!

• You want that dungeon armor set? Grind the hell out of that dungeon until you end up venomously hating dungeons!

• Want that awesome weapon skin from the event?! Well first you have a 0.004% chance to get the crate, and then you have another 0.004% chance to get a weapon skin ticket in that crate. Basically, more grind!

ANet, you’ve created an endless cycle of grind for endgame, and you lied to everyone who bought your game. I love GW2 but it has in no way delivered on it’s promises.

Because everything you listed is a cosmetic upgrade, and because cosmetic upgrades aren’t required to play the game, you’re not being required to grind anything. The only thing you’ve got a legitimate complaint on is Fractals, but that was designed specifically for grinders. Complaining about grinding in Fractals is like going to a strip club to complain about nudity.

You’ve really lost the whole entire point haven’t you? THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO FOR PVE PLAYERS! Does endgame consist of standing around talking in map chat all day? Because that’s what you’re basically telling me.

It’s because they took out all the great parts of Guildwars 1, the dual classes, loads of skills and skill captures, the story, meaningful PvP all of it, the Longevity of GW1 doesn’t exist in GW2…

Then they added Ascended crap which split the community with terrible unalt friendly time gates and not much else, of course PvE is dead, loot tables and Economy are horrible so crafting is terrible, with nothing to strive for, bar a stupid purple skin…

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

So many threads like this… So why start another?

To break the forums.

Dante.1508:

It’s because they took out all the great parts of Guildwars 1, the dual classes, loads of skills and skill captures, the story, meaningful PvP all of it, the Longevity of GW1 doesn’t exist in GW2…

As a GW vet I feel the need to inform you I don’t miss the dual classes or the loads of skills and that I didn’t find the story very interesting. I’d also like to know how my Texans are going to do this year, since you seem to have the powers of divination. How else would you know what GW2’s longevity is?

As a GW vet I also feel the need to tell you I think the persistent world, the additional axis and the jumping puzzles it allows, and WvW are all brilliant improvements to the original. I tell you these things not because I think you’re wrong and I’m right, but to illustrate that your opinions are not universally shared.

cryforthemoon.9326:

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

laokoko.7403:

cryforthemoon.9326:

Beligerent.1324:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game. What is so great about logging in every day to raid just to get gear just to do more raid just to do it all over again when the level cap goes up again from 90 to 95.

I did all of that I don’t want to do that again. I will get what ever gear I want when I hit 80 in this game then level my alts and do the same.

WoW has become nothing but a race to level cap just to raid and run heroics. If that’s what people think of as fun well I’m glad I don’t play WoW any more.

I’m sort of confused by your comment. You don’t want a WoW-grind-like MMO, but you don’t mind grinding dungeons for endgame in GW2? Um… What?

Thing is I don’t have to grind those dungeons if I don’t want to.

So what do you actually do? beside pvp and wvw.

Whatever I want to in the game. PvP WvW, events whatever I want to do I do it. I go back and I even do low level quests and I have fun doing all of that. End game is what ever I want it to be in this game.

Like I already stated, I am not a PvPer, and going back and doing lower lvl quests isn’t endgame content.

So all you really want is WoW style raids for more gear. Got it umm why don’t you go play WoW then I hear that they are bleeding subs right now.

Where the heck did I mention raiding? Oh wait, I never did. What is with you and trying to bring WoW and raiding into this thread? You’re the one who seems to have a big ol’ throbber for it the way you go on about it and try to accuse others of wanting it when they never even mention it.

Also people going “living story” as the solution… Really? I finished everything for Southsun in like an hour for each update and as for it being “living story” that’s a bit laughable. I love GW2 but their living story for this last update was some weak sauce.

Their living story is easily finished, quite speedily too (and I’m not even trying to rush through it or anything).

darkace.8925:

Dante.1508:

It’s because they took out all the great parts of Guildwars 1, the dual classes, loads of skills and skill captures, the story, meaningful PvP all of it, the Longevity of GW1 doesn’t exist in GW2…

As a GW vet I feel the need to inform you I don’t miss the dual classes or the loads of skills and that I didn’t find the story very interesting. I’d also like to know how my Texans are going to do this year, since you seem to have the powers of divination. How else would you know what GW2’s longevity is?

As a GW vet I also feel the need to tell you I think the persistent world, the additional axis and the jumping puzzles it allows, and WvW are all brilliant improvements to the original. I tell you these things not because I think you’re wrong and I’m right, but to illustrate that your opinions are not universally shared.

I agree that skill hunting was a pain in the butt in GW1 but I have to agree with the person you’re quoting, the story in GW1 was miles better compared to the story in GW2.

Beligerent.1324:

darkace.8925:

Dante.1508:

It’s because they took out all the great parts of Guildwars 1, the dual classes, loads of skills and skill captures, the story, meaningful PvP all of it, the Longevity of GW1 doesn’t exist in GW2…

As a GW vet I feel the need to inform you I don’t miss the dual classes or the loads of skills and that I didn’t find the story very interesting. I’d also like to know how my Texans are going to do this year, since you seem to have the powers of divination. How else would you know what GW2’s longevity is?

As a GW vet I also feel the need to tell you I think the persistent world, the additional axis and the jumping puzzles it allows, and WvW are all brilliant improvements to the original. I tell you these things not because I think you’re wrong and I’m right, but to illustrate that your opinions are not universally shared.

I agree that skill hunting was a pain in the butt in GW1 but I have to agree with the person you’re quoting, the story in GW1 was miles better compared to the story in GW2.

Single players games tend to have more freedom in story then mmorpg games.

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

Geunyoung.2973:

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

So the fact thakittens there means you must get it? That a very bad way to look at any game and life. There are things that ppl want and there are ppl willing to work for it this should NOT be stopped by ppl who do not wish to work for it.

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

So the fact thakittens there means you must get it? That a very bad way to look at any game and life. There are things that ppl want and there are ppl willing to work for it this should NOT be stopped by ppl who do not wish to work for it.

That’s exactly my point. But saying it’s a bad thing…..might be going a little overboard lol.

Dante.1508:

Beligerent.1324:

darkace.8925:

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do. And yet as soon as you get to endgame, the only endgame options that are really there is to grind.

• FOTM= Grind!

• You want that dungeon armor set? Grind the hell out of that dungeon until you end up venomously hating dungeons!

• Want that awesome weapon skin from the event?! Well first you have a 0.004% chance to get the crate, and then you have another 0.004% chance to get a weapon skin ticket in that crate. Basically, more grind!

ANet, you’ve created an endless cycle of grind for endgame, and you lied to everyone who bought your game. I love GW2 but it has in no way delivered on it’s promises.

Because everything you listed is a cosmetic upgrade, and because cosmetic upgrades aren’t required to play the game, you’re not being required to grind anything. The only thing you’ve got a legitimate complaint on is Fractals, but that was designed specifically for grinders. Complaining about grinding in Fractals is like going to a strip club to complain about nudity.

You’ve really lost the whole entire point haven’t you? THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO FOR PVE PLAYERS! Does endgame consist of standing around talking in map chat all day? Because that’s what you’re basically telling me.

It’s because they took out all the great parts of Guildwars 1, the dual classes, loads of skills and skill captures, the story, meaningful PvP all of it, the Longevity of GW1 doesn’t exist in GW2…

Then they added Ascended crap which split the community with terrible unalt friendly time gates and not much else, of course PvE is dead, loot tables and Economy are horrible so crafting is terrible, with nothing to strive for, bar a stupid purple skin…

Dual classes, fun as it was, was one of the worst things about Guild Wars 1. It made it literally impossible to balance. People complain about balance in PVe in this game…but they never experienced stuff like sabway, dual discord build, 600 monks and the like. It was fun maybe for PvP, but it destroyed PvE.

People say the PvE in this game is too easy. I find it a lot harder than the PvE in Guild Wars 1…if for no other reasons than I have to play myself instead of depending on 3 heroes who can do just about everything without me.

OP, if you haven’t gotten it by now, SOME people don’t want end game. End game isn’t why we’re here. The game was advertised as not having an end game….or that the entire game was end game.

It’s not for everyone. It’s clearly not for you. It is for some people.

You’re not wrong to want the end game you want. But why come to a game that was never supposed to have an end game and complain about the end game? That doesn’t make sense to me.

I see nothing wrong with dungeon tokens, or how are they called anyway. You want a nice looking exotic armor? Work for it a bit. I don’t see any other way how you can obtain dungeon tokens, and to me, it sounds reasonable.

It’s a dungeon armor, it requires bit of hard work to get it.

As for the grind, have you tried making ascended infusions? 250 T6 materials, tons of ectoplasm and 100 Passion Flowers. That’s what I call a grind. Hopefully, that will get nerfed in the following months.

Moreover, the whole gear grind represents a broken promise and a departure from previous behaviour for Anet. In gw1 if you got yourself max gear, that was it. Max in 2006 is still max today. This is what we were promised in gw2.

What we got was… rare. exotic. groovy – everyone can eventually get exotics. You have to repeat a dungeon until your eyes bleed, but hey, that’s not grind, it’s optional. Yeah…

Now there’s ascended, which have the best stats, but require grind. Lots of grind. Getting full gear on 1 char from laurels will take more than 6 months. Getting it from WvWvW is a slightly better deal, but not great. Fractals are the grindiest thing I’ve seen in game so far – grind out gear to be able to survive to… grind out gear. Wait, what?

So, yeah, OP has a point, but most who agree with him left when the ascended crap was introduced. Literally thousands, overnight. I hope Anet has learned from this, but I seriously doubt it.

EDIT: this has nothing to do with the OP wanting “end game content” but rather addresses the fact that Anet was falsely advertising what the game is about, and has actively lied to us (current changes making past promises lies retroactively) for YEARS about what we were supporting.

The sheer ignorance … it hurts.

What to do at 80? How about having fun. That means doing the dungeons I like, event chains I like and the WvW I like. I hardly if ever repeat content on a daily basis but instead cater to what I feel like doing. That keeps me going for the time being.

I never expected this game to support a hardcore 8 hours a day 7/7 playstyle. That’s exactly why I bought this game …

marnick.4305:

The sheer ignorance … it hurts.

What to do at 80? How about having fun. That means doing the dungeons I like, event chains I like and the WvW I like. I hardly if ever repeat content on a daily basis but instead cater to what I feel like doing. That keeps me going for the time being.

I never expected this game to support a hardcore 8 hours a day 7/7 playstyle. That’s exactly why I bought this game …

But it does support hardcore playstyle, through FOTM and gear grind. And maybe that’s fun for some players?

Geunyoung.2973:

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

And again, some of you still don’t seem to get it even though I’ve now said it two to three times. No you don’t NEED these items. But if you’re not trying to get them or do FOTM what else is there to do? The living story which can easily be completed (and quite fast too), and that’s it.

PvE players are basically pigeonholed into grinding these dungeons because there is simply nothing else for them to do for endgame. I’m not going to just stand around talking in map chat after I reach lvl 80 for the rest of my gameplay am I?

And @Mentalhead.572: ANet never stated when they were making GW2 that “there would be no endgame.” It was more along the lines that endgame would actually be fun and not based on grind… Which, as everyone can now clearly see, was a lie.

I don’t mind grind to an extant. I’m fairly sure it’s not even possible to have no grind in an MMO. But GW2 takes it to the extreme with their endgame grind. The difference between GW1 and GW2 for PvE players was that GW1 had a ton of storylines and quests to continue doing and it was a blast to be immersed in so much lore. GW2… Not so much.

Beligerent.1324:

Geunyoung.2973:

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

And again, some of you still don’t seem to get it even though I’ve now said it two to three times. No you don’t NEED these items. But if you’re not trying to get them or do FOTM what else is there to do? The living story which can easily be completed (and quite fast too), and that’s it.

PvE players are basically pigeonholed into grinding these dungeons because there is simply nothing else for them to do for endgame. I’m not going to just stand around talking in map chat after I reach lvl 80 for the rest of my gameplay am I?

Wait are you saying I don’t get it? Because you’re just pointing out exactly what I just meant.

Geunyoung.2973:

Beligerent.1324:

Geunyoung.2973:

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

And again, some of you still don’t seem to get it even though I’ve now said it two to three times. No you don’t NEED these items. But if you’re not trying to get them or do FOTM what else is there to do? The living story which can easily be completed (and quite fast too), and that’s it.

PvE players are basically pigeonholed into grinding these dungeons because there is simply nothing else for them to do for endgame. I’m not going to just stand around talking in map chat after I reach lvl 80 for the rest of my gameplay am I?

Wait are you saying I don’t get it? Because you’re just pointing out exactly what I just meant.

I meant to quote the user you quoted. Honest mistake.

Beligerent.1324:

Geunyoung.2973:

Beligerent.1324:

Geunyoung.2973:

Jski.6180:

Geunyoung.2973:

Funny how when people read threads that they disapprove of, they always start their counter-argument with, “There are thousands of threads like this already.” But anyways, although I do see your points, I believe there should be SOME grind in the game. Because if there were none, There would be no incentive to continue playing; at least for me.

Yes its not a good way to make an argument but to say this is saying something has been done to dead is. The OP makes it out as if you MUST grind but in truth you do not need to they are simply putting some random requirements on them self to get something or do something.
If that what you want to make of a game truly any game then it will be that way for you as a player. The big thing is in GW2 the game dose not make you need these high end items other games DO.

I do agree that GW2 does not require higher tier gear. But the fact that it’s there, and you have to grind for it. I could see why some players would be frustrated; they don’t like the idea of feeling inferior to another player with higher stats. I feel like the whole idea of gear in this game is more to boost your ego, then the practical use of it.

And again, some of you still don’t seem to get it even though I’ve now said it two to three times. No you don’t NEED these items. But if you’re not trying to get them or do FOTM what else is there to do? The living story which can easily be completed (and quite fast too), and that’s it.

PvE players are basically pigeonholed into grinding these dungeons because there is simply nothing else for them to do for endgame. I’m not going to just stand around talking in map chat after I reach lvl 80 for the rest of my gameplay am I?

Wait are you saying I don’t get it? Because you’re just pointing out exactly what I just meant.

I meant to quote the user you quoted. Honest mistake.

Ahh that makes more sense now. Okay carry on haha

Have you done every dungeon path? Have you gotten 100% map exploration? Have you conquered all the temples, killed every world boss? Done all jumping puzzles? Done most of the guild missions and equipped at least 1 character with all the available ascendeds?

If yes:
Congratulations! You have done all the PvE content the game has to offer! It probably took some time too, and since I know we’re both very reasonable players I don’t need to tell you that content takes a lot of time to create and that no game will ever have “enough” content for dedicated players unless it introduces grinds and time sinks.

If no:
Go do all of that then come back!

Closing in, I’d like you to post what would you consider a good endgame. Please, I seriously beg you to enlighten me.

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game.

Because ‘raiding’ was/is much more fun then any GW2 guild bounty / puzzle / whatever. May be because of the quality of fights and the game`s mechanics. May be because harder did not mean “scale the mob`s hp and damage up”.

That was and still is my subjective opinion.

Well i understand the OP, although somethings i can’t agree.

New content being release every month is brilliantly made. The living story is a wonderful way of adding new content, that evolves, making the time really flow. However it lacks some depth.

Players are leaving without things to strive for. We can see that everyday in our guilds (obviously there are guilds with the opposite effect, specially those guilds made for WvW…).

There is grind in this game. However, grind is not a needed aspect of the game. It’s instead a cosmetic choice. In the end, you have two choices. Or you grind for cosmetics, or you play without grind the way you like!

I can’t say what this game needs to boost the will to play. But if definitively needs something. It is grinding? Is it competitiveness? Is is social interaction? I don’t know. Having GvG is a good start. But how to please the PvE players? What do PvE needs? That’s the real question… But setting effort into the equation is a place to start, instead of giving things for free/almost free!

I bet many of you game addicted are passing through that “withdrawal” process as i am, entering the game and not knowing what to do!

/Cheers

rogerwilko.6895:

cryforthemoon.9326:

So what people really want is WoW end game. Why? What is so great a out WoW end game.

Because ‘raiding’ was/is much more fun then any GW2 guild bounty / puzzle / whatever. May be because of the quality of fights and the game`s mechanics. May be because harder did not mean “scale the mob`s hp and damage up”.

That was and still is my subjective opinion.

Raiding was much more fun for a tiny percentage of the population. Every time they did any kind of poll, it was obvious that raiding was NOT main stream. That most people didn’t consider themselves raiders and most people didn’t like to raid.

You’re, of course, entitled to your opinion. But many people…in fact, most if polls are to be believed, don’t enjoy raiding.

Beligerent.1324:

I started playing GW2 because I thought the whole point of this game was not to force the player to grind like so many other MMOs do. And yet as soon as you get to endgame, the only endgame options that are really there is to grind.

• FOTM= Grind!

• You want that dungeon armor set? Grind the hell out of that dungeon until you end up venomously hating dungeons!

• Want that awesome weapon skin from the event?! Well first you have a 0.004% chance to get the crate, and then you have another 0.004% chance to get a weapon skin ticket in that crate. Basically, more grind!

ANet, you’ve created an endless cycle of grind for endgame, and you lied to everyone who bought your game. I love GW2 but it has in no way delivered on it’s promises.

So I have not played many other MMO, how was this done in other games then. Except raids then, there is enough information about that on all forums.
So lets take some big MMO’s and see what the PVE endgame is there.