Guild Wars 2

For me, that special sense of acheivement in having discovered and made my way to a remote, hard-to-find location could be rewarded by something as simple as a “postcard” that you discover once you get there. Maybe a visually appealing picture of the area that you can then access from a tab in your personal story panel.
I doubt this would cause an uproar of protest from the people who don’t take pleasure in exploring just for the sake of it.

Ignavia.7420:

This is why I hope that they add region achievements to older zones in the future, among other stuff to make them more lively.

GW2 Hardmode incoming! I suspect the MegaServer changes is the first step toward this eventually being introduced.

I think GW2 has them in jumping puzzles and mini dungeons but with dulfy.net and just the web in general secrets are nothing special anymore.

Just like back in the day the Konami code was amazing because it was word of mouth or whatever media outlet you used to discover it. If Contra came out(using contra as its the most famous use of the code) people would find it online in two seconds and just take it for granted.

Cassandra Nea.2507:

For me, that special sense of achievement in having discovered and made my way to a remote, hard-to-find location could be rewarded by something as simple as a “postcard” that you discover once you get there. Maybe a visually appealing picture of the area that you can then access from a tab in your personal story panel.
I doubt this would cause an uproar of protest from the people who don’t take pleasure in exploring just for the sake of it.

I’d appreciate such a reward as well. Maybe the players could have some sort of an atlas in which to keep track all of all their discoveries, with a small description along with the picture.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Cassandra Nea.2507:

For me, that special sense of achievement in having discovered and made my way to a remote, hard-to-find location could be rewarded by something as simple as a “postcard” that you discover once you get there. Maybe a visually appealing picture of the area that you can then access from a tab in your personal story panel.
I doubt this would cause an uproar of protest from the people who don’t take pleasure in exploring just for the sake of it.

I’d appreciate such a reward as well. Maybe the players could have some sort of an atlas in which to keep track all of all their discoveries, with a small description along with the picture.

. . . a user-editable description, perhaps? Within text filter limits.

How bout they just make EVERY single drop in the game an Ascended chest or a completed Legendary….that would be real fun wouldn’kitten We could go from ‘free to play’ to “I feel free to quit this game at any given moment”! While we’re at it, let’s appease the PHIWs and make Nomad’s gear deal the same DPS as a full Berserker setup! Now we’re REALLY having fun aren’t we?

Tman.6349:

How bout they just make EVERY single drop in the game an Ascended chest or a completed Legendary….that would be real fun wouldn’kitten We could go from ‘free to play’ to “I feel free to quit this game at any given moment”! While we’re at it, let’s appease the PHIWs and make Nomad’s gear deal the same DPS as a full Berserker setup! Now we’re REALLY having fun aren’t we?

There’s a term for this, but it escapes me. You’re basically taking the initial argument and turning it into just being about the value of loot.

It’s not about the value of loot, it’s about feeling rewarded.

Draknar.5748:

Rewards are definitely lacking in this game, but I think it’s more related to RNG than anything else.

I don’t think it’s lacking at all. I actually think there’s too much. The real problem is, that the rewards themselves, are awful. They aren’t thought out at all, and they are just randomized.

Most bags and chests contain random crafting materials and gear, regardless of what content you do. Killed a champ? Oh, great. Blues and greens, and crafting mats. You can be sure all the other champs drop the same thing. Loot a chest? Same thing. Complete a dungeon? Same thing. Complete a personal story step? Same thing, with some extra stuff added.

Loot isn’t really specific for anything in this game. Most of the encounters for rewards contain the same things. I might be wrong, but this has been my experience so far.

Tman.6349:

How bout they just make EVERY single drop in the game an Ascended chest or a completed Legendary….that would be real fun wouldn’kitten We could go from ‘free to play’ to “I feel free to quit this game at any given moment”! While we’re at it, let’s appease the PHIWs and make Nomad’s gear deal the same DPS as a full Berserker setup! Now we’re REALLY having fun aren’t we?

To repeat myself:

This thread is not about chests containing bad loot after opening it. This thread is about knowing that you are not going to get a reward regardless of your discovery. You know before opening it, that the chest will contain rubbish, if there is a chest at all. You know that veteran that’s guarding the place, is a waste of time, and you might as well not kill him. There are no rewards to look forward to when exploring the world.

While I do sympathise with the general idea behind the OP’s post, I feel I should point out that I’ve gotten Exotic drops, Charged Lodestones, and even a Precursor just from killing random mobs in the open world. It’s not that there isn’t the potential for immense windfalls for exploring and discovery isn’t there; it’s just very rare, and through the vagaries of RNG, some players might get lucky over and over and some will just get the skritt-stick over and over.

That’s why I’ve always supported token reward systems like what we have in dungeons and in the original incarnation of SAB. At least that way you know that, even if you are afflicted by some weird gypsy curse, you WILL eventually get what you want if you persevere at it for long enough. It’s just a matter of time and dedication.

And, once again, as stated in other posts about the beauty and depth inspired in this game, if you’re chasing a carrot on a stick you will be sorely disappointed. EVERYTHING in this game is VERY easy to accomplish/acquire, BUT this game was made for THE GAME itself…much like it’s predecessor. Ya’ dig!?!

Zaxares.5419:

While I do sympathise with the general idea behind the OP’s post, I feel I should point out that I’ve gotten Exotic drops, Charged Lodestones, and even a Precursor just from killing random mobs in the open world.

So have I. But then I fight that veteran in a hidden cave, and I know he’ll just drop a green item. I might as well fight trash mobs in the open world, and ignore what ever guardians and chests are hidden in the explorables. The loot from random mobs in the open world seems much better. I just wish that there was a reward to look forward to.

Tman.6349:

And, once again, as stated in other posts about the beauty and depth inspired in this game, if you’re chasing a carrot on a stick you will be sorely disappointed. EVERYTHING in this game is VERY easy to accomplish/acquire, BUT this game was made for THE GAME itself…much like it’s predecessor. Ya’ dig!?!

It’s not just about acquiring loot though. It’s about having a feeling of adventure and discovery. It’s about looking forward to discoveries. Whenever you opened a chest in Diablo for example, and it dropped a ring, the ring might be good. It might be something worth a fair dime, or it may be something you want to equip your character with. When a ring drops in GW2, it’s bad. You don’t need to look at it, you can sell it straight to the vendor. You don’t even need to open a treasure chest in the open world. There’s nothing in there but trash, guaranteed. Guaranteed zero rewards.

I don’t want every chest to hand out legendaries. What I do want, is to have a feeling that I might discover something awesome while exploring the world. But there’s nothing awesome there. Just empty caves, veterans that drop greens, and chests stuffed with trash. That’s all the rewards in a nutshell.

I actually once made a suggestion that Veterans should always drop loot bags (e.g. Bag of Skritt Shinies) relevant to their type. Elites should also drop non-Exotic Champ Bags. That would make fighting them more rewarding. (To compensate for the increased rate of drops, dungeons would need adjusting.)

And I have actually gotten an Exotic from a treasure chest in the open world before too, so… never say never.

Zaxares.5419:

While I do sympathise with the general idea behind the OP’s post, I feel I should point out that I’ve gotten Exotic drops, Charged Lodestones, and even a Precursor just from killing random mobs in the open world. It’s not that there isn’t the potential for immense windfalls for exploring and discovery isn’t there; it’s just very rare, and through the vagaries of RNG, some players might get lucky over and over and some will just get the skritt-stick over and over.

That’s why I’ve always supported token reward systems like what we have in dungeons and in the original incarnation of SAB. At least that way you know that, even if you are afflicted by some weird gypsy curse, you WILL eventually get what you want if you persevere at it for long enough. It’s just a matter of time and dedication.

This is PRECISELY the logic within speedclear/zerg groups: destroy as much content as fast as mechanics will allow, get your GUARENTEED loot, and hope for the best however the other chips fall. It’s not rocket science once you acknowledge that loot tables are completely random. Invest in Berserker gear>kill a bunch of things really fast>get lots of gold….should this fail…repeat again tomorrow. LOL.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Zaxares.5419:

While I do sympathise with the general idea behind the OP’s post, I feel I should point out that I’ve gotten Exotic drops, Charged Lodestones, and even a Precursor just from killing random mobs in the open world.

So have I. But then I fight that veteran in a hidden cave, and I know he’ll just drop a green item. I might as well fight trash mobs in the open world, and ignore what ever guardians and chests are hidden in the explorables. The loot from random mobs in the open world seems much better. I just wish that there was a reward to look forward to.

Tman.6349:

And, once again, as stated in other posts about the beauty and depth inspired in this game, if you’re chasing a carrot on a stick you will be sorely disappointed. EVERYTHING in this game is VERY easy to accomplish/acquire, BUT this game was made for THE GAME itself…much like it’s predecessor. Ya’ dig!?!

It’s not just about acquiring loot though. It’s about having a feeling of adventure and discovery. It’s about looking forward to discoveries. Whenever you opened a chest in Diablo for example, and it dropped a ring, the ring might be good. It might be something worth a fair dime, or it may be something you want to equip your character with. When a ring drops in GW2, it’s bad. You don’t need to look at it, you can sell it straight to the vendor. You don’t even need to open a treasure chest in the open world. There’s nothing in there but trash, guaranteed. Guaranteed zero rewards.

I don’t want every chest to hand out legendaries. What I do want, is to have a feeling that I might discover something awesome while exploring the world. But there’s nothing awesome there. Just empty caves, veterans that drop greens, and chests stuffed with trash. That’s all the rewards in a nutshell.

That is EXACTLY what I was saying… O.o

It’s a logical response to the RNG that dominates the majority of rewards in the game. When rewards are not linked to effort and context, players seek the fastest way to grind the most profitable enemies, over and over again.

If exploring was filled with rewards that weren’t dominated by RNG, players might feel compelled to explore, rather than grind. This also extends to dungeons, where pretty much the only worthy reward is at the end, so people just skip to the end over and over again. If there were any rewards to look forward to in the middle, people might actually bother to play the middle.

I don’t see why people need to overstate their case and resort to hyperbole to make a point. Particularly if the point, like this one, is perfectly valid.

You can’t guarantee nothing of value from a chest, because of gotten rares and even the occasional exotics from world chests and JP chests. Not often though.

On the other hand, what this game lacks compared to something like GW 1 is the random drop of something intermediately nice. In Eye of the North there was always a chance for a lock pick drop. A black or white dye. These are the things that made opening something fun. A chance for something.

Guild Wars 2 lacks that to a large degree, because the chances are so small. We need a chance to get a rare mat, or a chance to get something. I don’t say increase the change for rare or exotic items. But something needs to be added to the loot tables that is fun or exciting, or profitable. Something that’s interesting.

Even pieces of stories written in scraps that you can make a book out of if you get all the scraps.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Why do people need a carrot? I play games for fun. If you need constant rewards, then playing games isn’t for you…

I wouldn’t dismiss the ‘carrot chasers’ and extrinsic rewards so easily, since GW2’s income is based heavily upon both.

Vayne.8563:

Even pieces of stories written in scraps that you can make a book out of if you get all the scraps.

This also seems like a great way to expand the lore, and provide a lot of information that we wouldn’t otherwise get through spoken dialogue.

I’d definitely enjoy collecting journal scraps by exploring the world.

I’ve seen similar ideas for a Lore Codex on the Horizontal Character Progression CDI a while back. I still hope something like this will be added in some way or another. It gives those who like to explore a reason to do so and completes the objective of having more lore in the game at the same time.

The idea from the CDI and my contribution to it:

Errannar.8263

Eli Stormstrike.8637

LORE CODEX
One thing certain other games have, such as SWTOR and Diablo III, which would be very useful in GW2, is a Codex where the lore and story of the game world is stored.

We already have a similar log for our personal stories, except this expanded log might give us background information on the zones we visit, as a reward for map completion and exploration, could expand the achievement system with a new category, as a guideline on where to find these tidbits of lore.

The end goal is to provide an in-game library of lore, story and continuity that would allow both new and old players to find information on, for example, the time between GW1 and GW2 and compile the history of Guild Wars, which might also get more people interested in the zones and quests which they are doing.

Getting players immersed in the gameworld and interested in the content they’re consuming can only be a positive, and it would allow the Living World Story, which many find confusing, to be compiled in a simple, in-game log, for people to follow and read through, and could be another reward for completing the LW meta-achievement.

If we combine this with the housing idea, we can have the house contain a bookshelf or study, which can be the physical representation of this codex. Possibly let it start out empty and then fill it with books when a player completes more of their codex.

The codex can be filled in several ways:

• Players can compile a bestiary by slaying different kinds of creatures in Tyria.
• Players get a book containing lore of a zone by completing it, as mentioned by Eli.
• Players are given hints that will lead them to lore books. These will be hidden in places somehow related to the lore they cover. The books can be hidden in chests, dropped by (related) mobs, hidden behind a puzzle, obtained or put together through a quest or even just found out somewhere hidden in the environment.

Some examples on gathering these books:

• You find the ship of a famous pirate and collect their diary or logbook.
• You follow a series of clues and gather pages that form a book, like the Mad Memoires quest.
• You slap a (Risen) Priestess of Dwayna to obtain a book about the goddess.

It will give players the chance to explore the world and perform several tasks while showing them more of the lore.

One more thing I would like to see added to possible house decorations, is a buyable, or maybe craftable, portrait of your Order mentor(s).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Vayne.8563:

Even pieces of stories written in scraps that you can make a book out of if you get all the scraps.

This also seems like a great way to expand the lore, and provide a lot of information that we wouldn’t otherwise get through spoken dialogue.

I’d definitely enjoy collecting journal scraps by exploring the world.

Collecting tome pages in EQ2 was a pretty big deal, some were worth a lot of plat. Usually there was a start Tome with missing pages, you collected them and had the tome rebound. I have like 300 books in my main home (nothing compared to the Lore fiends). They could be placed in a home, read by anyone with access. History, Stories, Humor, a bit of everything.

And then there were Shinies. Everyone loves shinies.http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/shiny_%28eq2%29

PS. Oh, Internet. This post reminded me of one EQ2 book, I googled it and a post I wrote about it in 2005 popped up. lol Anyway, this book. Trinni was famous. http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/The_Nightblood

Those are some excellent ideas Errannar, and I also like the concept of shinies, Teofa Tsavo.

Lore books and a private library that you can share with friends/guildies. The game desperately needs this.

After reading most of the posts here, an idea from an old game I used to play popped into my head.

I used to play Runescape years and years ago…in that game enemies had a chance (2%?) to drop a clue…there were easy, medium and hard clues. the hardest clue would give the best reward (ranging from somewhat decent loot to extremely expensive item(s)).

You could only carry 1 clue at a time, no matter if it’s easy, medium or hard. You can’t get another one until you either complete the clue, or you destroy it.

The idea behind the clue was simple: You get a clue from random enemy, read it, and it would tell you a hint as where the next part of the clue would be…it could be ANYWHERE in the world..it was up to you to find it (or be lazy and use some website to look it up.) After going to the next spot where the clue might be, you use spade and dig around the place and hope that you find the next clue. You’d keep doing this until eventually you would get your reward instead of another clue.

This clue system made players explore the world, use their heads, and work for their reward. It could also require some combat skill since sometimes the clue led you to wilderness (pvp zone) where other players might kill you and you’d lose your clue. This could be wvw in gw2 world.

In runescape there were a lot of different clues too, so you shouldn’t get same clue too often (I never remember getting same clue twice, although sometimes the clue led me to a same place as before, but the next clue led to a completely new place.)

Just my 2 cents.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Blude.6812:

…..
Agree, but you left out one important word “related to ‘BROKEN’ RNG”

Not liking what you get from RNG is not proof it’s in any way “BROKEN”. All evidence I have seen is definitive proof RNG in GW2 works as well as can be expected from a computing system.

If you want to don your Tin Foil Fedora and make wild claims about “proof” RNG isn’t working as intended, start a new thread (or add to the 100s already on here).

all a I can say where is the proof for your side? Saying working as intended does not prove it is not broken or unacceptably programmed.
And public forums—I can post. As to the fedora—-I am sure I know what hat you wear.

If there is reward it’ll become ==> farm xxx in xxx minutes on youtube. For example farm 40 empyreal fragment in 20 minutes on youtube.

It’s not like you can hide anything in the internet.

Personally I’m pretty happy with Lost Coins as rewards. It’s been a blast hunting them all without guides.

Although I don’t think it’s necessary to strictly reward players each time they find a cave. Personally, I would be satisfied with an Easter Egg, like seeing a horde of chickens dancing around.

When I was doing my 100% map, more than a year ago, I found many beautiful and interesting looking places, like, for example, that Pirate ship near the JP. That being said, unfortunately there’s no reason for me to ever return to that place because there’s simply nothing there. No events worth doing, no rewards to be found, no players. Nothing. Feels like a wasted potential and dev work.
Why invest time in making all these beautiful places, hidden caves, etc, if once found there’s no reason to return to them?

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see why people need to overstate their case and resort to hyperbole to make a point. Particularly if the point, like this one, is perfectly valid.

You can’t guarantee nothing of value from a chest, because of gotten rares and even the occasional exotics from world chests and JP chests. Not often though.

On the other hand, what this game lacks compared to something like GW 1 is the random drop of something intermediately nice. In Eye of the North there was always a chance for a lock pick drop. A black or white dye. These are the things that made opening something fun. A chance for something.

Guild Wars 2 lacks that to a large degree, because the chances are so small. We need a chance to get a rare mat, or a chance to get something. I don’t say increase the change for rare or exotic items. But something needs to be added to the loot tables that is fun or exciting, or profitable. Something that’s interesting.

Even pieces of stories written in scraps that you can make a book out of if you get all the scraps.

I completely agree, the loot table is boring as all get out and could use some serious re-balancing as well as a host of new items. Why not add things like keys and dyes back into the mix or even items like salvage kits (all types) and gathering tools, heck the occasional skins themselves. Nothing but nothing beats the feeling of looting a corpse and finding something really cool and even something useful. Right now, and for the most part it feels like X-mas is locked behind a bank vault you can only open by spending money and buying gems.

I have to say I really miss Dye drops. =(

Still waiting on that. You see for most new players who don’t know, there was supposed to be a rewards revamp according to the devs 7 months ago. Not seen a single thing. In a game where they are supposedly making tons of money off the players but they can’t code a simple checkbox for Engineers to hide their backpacks permanently I wouldn’t hold my breath.

(I thought the stormboxes would be a nice touch even wrote a thank you for it but sadly even that wasn’t a fix)

Even if they did come to their senses briefly and do something about this problem, I think they’d follow the same pattern they’ve had since launch. Exclude the largest portion of the population on every game out since 2005 (casual open world players) and make these rewards either only available in PVP zones or on dungeons and if that’s the sad case of it they need to stop pretending that they care about the open world.

Tman.6349:

How bout they just make EVERY single drop in the game an Ascended chest or a completed Legendary….that would be real fun wouldn’kitten We could go from ‘free to play’ to “I feel free to quit this game at any given moment”! While we’re at it, let’s appease the PHIWs and make Nomad’s gear deal the same DPS as a full Berserker setup! Now we’re REALLY having fun aren’t we?

Hyperbole much? What a complete waste of a post. Not on topic, not helpful to the discussion at all.

Add a new token currency to chests in the open world that can be traded for things like loot bags or runes or mats or something. BOOM, incentive.

tigirius.9014:

Still waiting on that. You see for most new players who don’t know, there was supposed to be a rewards revamp according to the devs 7 months ago. Not seen a single thing. In a game where they are supposedly making tons of money off the players but they can’t code a simple checkbox for Engineers to hide their backpacks permanently I wouldn’t hold my breath.

(I thought the stormboxes would be a nice touch even wrote a thank you for it but sadly even that wasn’t a fix)

Even if they did come to their senses briefly and do something about this problem, I think they’d follow the same pattern they’ve had since launch. Exclude the largest portion of the population on every game out since 2005 (casual open world players) and make these rewards either only available in PVP zones or on dungeons and if that’s the sad case of it they need to stop pretending that they care about the open world.

I’m not sure they’re thinking that way.

From what I gleen, the ANet team is caught between their ideal of what the game should be, and what the players actually want. There is a certain smugness among game developers that they know right, and that unhappy players are just “confused” or “not playing right”. They must walk a thin line between their “vision” and making customers happy.

As for me, the advent of luck-only items is disconcerting. Should they continue the practice, I will stop playing. I have already stopped buying things in the TP.

Perhaps they will gain more than they lose. Maybe I’m just not their demographic anymore. Time will tell.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Something that me and a friend discussed the other night, was how GW2 has guaranteed no rewards, and this really bothers me. Whenever you are exploring the world, and find that hidden cave, you are almost guaranteed to find nothing of interest what so ever.

There may be a treasure chest filled with the same useless green and blue items that drop from any other enemy (if there is any chest at all). There may be a veteran monster, that just takes longer to kill, and doesn’t provide a meaningful reward worth the effort. And all this does not encourage me to explore the world. What’s the point of discovering a cave behind a waterfall, when the cave contains nothing that I wouldn’t find anywhere else?

The game needs better rewards overall, but it certainly needs to reward exploration better. This could be done in the form of achievements, but also in the form of an extra page in your journal. When I discover a cave, let there be something special in it that makes me feel rewarded for my trouble.

Better rewards for people to farm?
That veteran talk reminds me of something, oh yeah, the Champions “they should have better rewards” alright there you go what did people do? Yeah…

Finding it its is own reward, and it the devs got to the trouble of making something for the journal (which would be a substantial amount of work) 99% wouldn’t care while the other 1% would complain about some detail that its not 100% accurate according to GW1 “they’re killing the game! So much disregard”.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Better rewards for people to farm?
That veteran talk reminds me of something, oh yeah, the Champions “they should have better rewards” alright there you go what did people do? Yeah…

Finding it its is own reward, and it the devs got to the trouble of making something for the journal (which would be a substantial amount of work) 99% wouldn’t care while the other 1% would complain about some detail that its not 100% accurate according to GW1 “they’re killing the game! So much disregard”.

Exploring, by its nature, takes up more time than just killing stuff, and as such it is a less effective farming mechanism. While having unique skins or items only available from exploring would be nice, that’ll just be put under the RNG system again and isn’t (necessarily) what we’re talking about.

That’s why we’re trying to come up with ways to reward exploring without resorting to instant rewards.

Also, right now there is no incentive to go around exploring again after you’ve seen everything once. The views are nice, but they don’t offer much else. I don’t even pay much attention to the jumping puzzles anymore, because I’ve done them too often. I run through when the monthly is up, collect my assortment of greens and blues and leave.

I don’t like that. I want to explore the world, because it’s fun and it looks beautiful, but since there is no real purpose to it now and there are faster ways to achieve my other goals, there is no real incentive to actually do so. Something like riddles and clues, a lore codex, achievements, or maybe something completely different, would probably compel me to run around more to try and complete that.

Yes, it may take time to create something like this, but anything that makes Tyria more interesting is worth looking into, in my opinion.

I have to agree.

When I just started the game, it was alot of fun to explore for the mere sake of seeing a new place or reading a new story-line. For a person, done with these first-impression reactions and even for those aren’t interested of the story, it is really hard to find a purpose to explore, because the rewards are far away from satisfying.

Kapina.9012:

After reading most of the posts here, an idea from an old game I used to play popped into my head.

I used to play Runescape years and years ago…in that game enemies had a chance (2%?) to drop a clue…there were easy, medium and hard clues. the hardest clue would give the best reward (ranging from somewhat decent loot to extremely expensive item(s)).

You could only carry 1 clue at a time, no matter if it’s easy, medium or hard. You can’t get another one until you either complete the clue, or you destroy it.

The idea behind the clue was simple: You get a clue from random enemy, read it, and it would tell you a hint as where the next part of the clue would be…it could be ANYWHERE in the world..it was up to you to find it (or be lazy and use some website to look it up.) After going to the next spot where the clue might be, you use spade and dig around the place and hope that you find the next clue. You’d keep doing this until eventually you would get your reward instead of another clue.

This clue system made players explore the world, use their heads, and work for their reward. It could also require some combat skill since sometimes the clue led you to wilderness (pvp zone) where other players might kill you and you’d lose your clue. This could be wvw in gw2 world.

In runescape there were a lot of different clues too, so you shouldn’t get same clue too often (I never remember getting same clue twice, although sometimes the clue led me to a same place as before, but the next clue led to a completely new place.)

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting concept. I think it would be great to have something like this in the game.

Guys, Anet already solved the problem of making chest discoveries from exploring worthwhile, and relatively repeatable, without making them too highly farmable. They did it in Guild Wars: Nightfall.

See: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Treasure
Why, like many of Guild Wars 1’s great design decisions, they decided to abandon it in Guild Wars 2, is beyond me (oh wait…Gem Store).

But just read that article and you can see how it worked, while still being worthwhile and profitible to do once in a while, without being too farmable or hurting the economy too much due to the active DR and 30~ day reset (which of course, after finding one treasure, encouraged you to search the rest of the world for more rather than just opening the same, easily do-able one, every day, like you might do in GW2 for the daily JP achievement).

For bonus points, after reintroducing this system with equally worthwhile rewards, they could add several possible locations for each chest in their attached cave/hidden area with the game randomly picking one each server reset or whatever, the other possible locations being empty, and possibly at harzardous deadends, to add that adventuring feel that Yalora Istairiea tried to describe above, without web browsing access destroying the feeling completely.

Kapina.9012:

After reading most of the posts here, an idea from an old game I used to play popped into my head.

I used to play Runescape years and years ago…in that game enemies had a chance (2%?) to drop a clue…there were easy, medium and hard clues. the hardest clue would give the best reward (ranging from somewhat decent loot to extremely expensive item(s)).

You could only carry 1 clue at a time, no matter if it’s easy, medium or hard. You can’t get another one until you either complete the clue, or you destroy it.

The idea behind the clue was simple: You get a clue from random enemy, read it, and it would tell you a hint as where the next part of the clue would be…it could be ANYWHERE in the world..it was up to you to find it (or be lazy and use some website to look it up.) After going to the next spot where the clue might be, you use spade and dig around the place and hope that you find the next clue. You’d keep doing this until eventually you would get your reward instead of another clue.

This clue system made players explore the world, use their heads, and work for their reward. It could also require some combat skill since sometimes the clue led you to wilderness (pvp zone) where other players might kill you and you’d lose your clue. This could be wvw in gw2 world.

In runescape there were a lot of different clues too, so you shouldn’t get same clue too often (I never remember getting same clue twice, although sometimes the clue led me to a same place as before, but the next clue led to a completely new place.)

Just my 2 cents.

That actually sounds … awesome, which is why you prolly won’t be seeing it in GW2

Dean Calaway.9718:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Something that me and a friend discussed the other night, was how GW2 has guaranteed no rewards, and this really bothers me. Whenever you are exploring the world, and find that hidden cave, you are almost guaranteed to find nothing of interest what so ever.

There may be a treasure chest filled with the same useless green and blue items that drop from any other enemy (if there is any chest at all). There may be a veteran monster, that just takes longer to kill, and doesn’t provide a meaningful reward worth the effort. And all this does not encourage me to explore the world. What’s the point of discovering a cave behind a waterfall, when the cave contains nothing that I wouldn’t find anywhere else?

The game needs better rewards overall, but it certainly needs to reward exploration better. This could be done in the form of achievements, but also in the form of an extra page in your journal. When I discover a cave, let there be something special in it that makes me feel rewarded for my trouble.

Better rewards for people to farm?
That veteran talk reminds me of something, oh yeah, the Champions “they should have better rewards” alright there you go what did people do? Yeah…

Finding it its is own reward, and it the devs got to the trouble of making something for the journal (which would be a substantial amount of work) 99% wouldn’t care while the other 1% would complain about some detail that its not 100% accurate according to GW1 “they’re killing the game! So much disregard”.

champions dropping loot is substantially better than the alternative. people doing dungeon speed runs doesnt mean dungeons should drop crap.

i think the game is fine as it is.
I get more then enough loot to be able to do the things i wanne do,
i would even say sometimes its raining rares and exotics.
Even have some ascended drops without looking for them.
The fun of games for me is playing them with friends and have a
good time, or jsut reandomly roam through the world,
not the drops it gives.

innocens.1582:

i think the game is fine as it is.
I get more then enough loot to be able to do the things i wanne do,
i would even say sometimes its raining rares and exotics.
Even have some ascended drops without looking for them.
The fun of games for me is playing them with friends and have a
good time, or jsut reandomly roam through the world,
not the drops it gives.

This entire thread is not about loot.

It’s not about whether the rewards are good or bad. It’s about knowing in advance that there is not going to be any reward for your discoveries, or for beating that hidden veteran in a cave.

If you don’t feel that you will be rewarded, this takes away from the desire to explore the world.

You keep saying that, but the chance for an Exotic, or better, maybe, is what you can find in those chests behind those Veterans, etc. That seems like more than ‘zero rewards’ to me. /shrug

I was running Buried Chests this morning and hit one that gave me 20 Dragonite. Now I realize many players have a glut of Dragonite and would say think it was a crap reward, but my first thought was, “Yowza! Zero Reward my foot!”, as I need Dragonite for my Ascended weaponry plans.

I think the complaint that you are currently dissatisfied with the rewards you get for exploration is valid, but the claim that it is a “zero reward” is pure exaggerated propaganda and another undeserved spit in the Dev’s face.

Everyone that posts here should understand that when you exaggerate claims and complaints beyond reasonable truth, everything you state becomes questionable to the reasonable people that read it. I get that some just want to garner support from other like minded Anet-haters (these forums have there share of these), but if you truly want anyone to give your ideas any kind of reasonable consideration, being blatantly inaccurate and untruthful (for whatever reason) is not the way to do it.

It’s not about whether the rewards are good or bad. It’s about knowing in advance that there is not going to be any reward for your discoveries, or for beating that hidden veteran in a cave.

If you don’t feel that you will be rewarded, this takes away from the desire to explore the world.

If your desire for rewards overshadows your desire to just play and explore, you should re-examine why you are playing. The NOT KNOWING is part of the enjoyment for some. I’m not saying any of these ideas are bad or that there is not room to improve the current system (there certainly is), but if rewards are your sole motivation to perform a given task, it sounds more like work than a game to me.

Brother Grimm.5176:

but the claim that it is a “zero reward” is pure exaggerated propaganda and another undeserved spit in the Dev’s face.

I could care less about whether the devs consider a valid complaint about rewards in their game a spit in the face. If you choose to see it that way, that is not my problem.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Everyone that posts here should understand that when you exaggerate claims and complaints beyond reasonable truth, everything you state becomes questionable to the reasonable people that read it.

There is no exaggeration in my post. When any player goes out into the world, I think most of them have that same feeling that they are not going to get any rewards. When they find some hidden area, and kill that veteran guarding that sacred spring, they know they will not get anything special. And it is no exaggeration when I say that 100% of every ring you pick up is merchant/salvage fodder. There are zero items that you would want to equip on your character, that drop from chests or veterans.

You want to call exotics, that have like a miniscule chance of dropping, a proper reward to look forward to when exploring the world? Does any player have any delusions that when they are opening a chest, it might drop an exotic? No it’s not going to contain one. It’s going to be filled with green and blue items.

And that’s what I’m getting to here, but I’m not sure if you quite got it. It’s not about if there are ARE valuable items that SOMETIMES drop. When I go out and explore the world, I want to feel like there might be something up there worth my time. But there never is.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Brother Grimm.5176:

but the claim that it is a “zero reward” is pure exaggerated propaganda and another undeserved spit in the Dev’s face.

I could care less about whether the devs consider a valid complaint about rewards in their game a spit in the face. If you choose to see it that way, that is not my problem.

I think that’s a bit of an emotional hyperbole, honestly. I mean, I agree your “zero reward” isn’t quite true but then I define “reward” as “anything more than empty corpses” . . .

There is no exaggeration in my post. When any player goes out into the world, I think most of them have that same feeling that they are not going to get any rewards.

Singling this out specifically, because I suspect a lot of them go out in the world for more guaranteed rewards. Like World Bosses, or certain Champions, or even to go run trains in WvW for an hour. I don’t expect the average players are keeping score of each kill and loot, because they are too busy going for the “known quantity”.

Now, if we’re discussing the Mystic Forge RNG of Doom? Yeah, I expect every player going to use it has to psyche themselves up for disappointment. (Protip: Never gamble with things you can’t afford to lose.)

And it is no exaggeration when I say that 100% of every ring you pick up is merchant/salvage fodder. There are zero items that you would want to equip on your character, that drop from chests or veterans.

Well, definitely false, that second bit. I tend to equip my characters as they level with drops because it’s a little hard to keep up with crafting them gear at every five-level step. Until recently when I decided to “just get it over with”, I had a green Glyphic sword on my ranger when I decided I wanted melee. I think I have a set of dropped Banded I am waiting to throw onto my warrior until I get something better together.

Rings are better saved, perhaps, for Mystic Forge fodder anyway.

You want to call exotics, that have like a miniscule chance of dropping, a proper reward to look forward to when exploring the world? Does any player have any delusions that when they are opening a chest, it might drop an exotic? No it’s not going to contain one. It’s going to be filled with green and blue items.

. . . actually . . . not recently for me. Weird thing, I have gotten more exotics from chests than any method other than crafting them.

When I go out and explore the world, I want to feel like there might be something up there worth my time. But there never is.

I dunno, I find simply getting out there and doing things is worth my time. I mean, I go to MTG tournaments and pay actual money to sit down at a table and know, deep down, I’m not going to get any prize other than the cards I drafted. I don’t ever consider it a waste of my time.

I played Hearthstone for a week, getting to learn about it and the mechanics, and though I ultimately uninstalled it? It wasn’t a waste of my time.

Things are only a waste of your time if you let them be a waste, really. If you approach it going ‘you know, this isn’t worth my time’ . . . you’re not going to have as much fun as you could have. And while it sounds so much like generic glurge:

If you’re not looking for having fun, it’s not going to be there.

All this aside: yes. You do have a valid point about there not being a lot of reasons to go out and do things or to explore random patches in a “let’s see what we can find today” way. Unfortunately? I have found really few games which actually can hit that note with me.

No, not even Minecraft.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

All this aside: yes. You do have a valid point about there not being a lot of reasons to go out and do things or to explore random patches in a “let’s see what we can find today” way. Unfortunately? I have found really few games which actually can hit that note with me.

No, not even Minecraft.

Well at least with Minecraft you occasionally stumble on that rare pocket of diamonds. After a while of course you have enough diamonds that even that doesn’t matter any more. But then there are hidden cities, and underground temples and mines. There are plenty of reasons to dig tunnels in Minecraft.

Loot-wise, only Diablo 1 seemed to find that perfect balance. You could do countless dungeon runs in Diablo, and still have valuables drop for you. There were always reason to look forward to opening a chest, or exploring a dungeon. Both Minecraft and Diablo are filled with this innate feeling of mystery and anticipation. And I think especially the anticipation of discovery is what is missing in GW2. Because there is nothing to anticipate.

In Minecraft you can stumble upon an underground tunnel, which may expose valuable minerals that you can mine. Or you may stumble upon a system of mines, that have treasure chests with rare items in them. There is anticipation, and then the pay off: the moment of discovery.

In Diablo you can open various chests, or kill various bosses, and then an unidentified ring drops. And you’re like: “Ooooooh, what’s this then?”. There is anticipation, and quite often it is something useful, so that’s the pay off.

Now take GW2. I find a hidden cave. I know there’s nothing in there before I explore it. There is no anticipation. I may feel curious to explore it, but I know that what ever lies at the end of the tunnel, it will not be a reward. And I know most of the bosses are a waste of my time. Statistically, it always seem that in GW2 killing a bunch of trash mobs is more rewarding than spending a few minutes hacking away at some lone veteran in a cave. There is no pay off.

It’s just bad design, but it’s not just related to Gw2, it’s pretty much every game out there at the moment, and pretty much every one in the past few years. Most games now a days seem to focus more on the cash shop than on the player experience.

I find a hidden cave in gw2 and I don’t go in. It’s not really hidden as I have 100% map exploration, I’ve already been in and there is absolutely no reason for me to go back. Nothing drops of value, I’m better of served spending time in the neglected WvW or EoTM karma training for rewards. Even that is beyond dull at the moment.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Well at least with Minecraft you occasionally stumble on that rare pocket of diamonds. After a while of course you have enough diamonds that even that doesn’t matter any more. But then there are hidden cities, and underground temples and mines. There are plenty of reasons to dig tunnels in Minecraft.

Yes, but on the flip side most of those things are likewise unrewarding . . . I mean, except for the finding.

Both Minecraft and Diablo are filled with this innate feeling of mystery and anticipation. And I think especially the anticipation of discovery is what is missing in GW2. Because there is nothing to anticipate.

I think there’s plenty to anticipate in comparison to Minecraft and Diablo 1. Diablo 1 was almost pointless as . . . well, most of the loot was junk. Minecraft, it’s hard to say because 90% of the game could be termed a grind for that 10% of Awesomeness. (It’s getting mildly better though.)

In Minecraft you can stumble upon an underground tunnel, which may expose valuable minerals that you can mine. Or you may stumble upon a system of mines, that have treasure chests with rare items in them. There is anticipation, and then the pay off: the moment of discovery.

As a routine player, this is usually also balanced out by wonderful surprises such as sneaky Creepers when returning home, the Lava Source you mine into from the side so you don’t see it coming, or the Ghast shutting off your portal out just as you get there . . .

Much as I like Minecraft, a lot of the fun stuff is of the sort which is manufactured through only certain methods and approaches to play. Come at it from a straightforward angle and it turns “grindy” fast . . . also of note, the “rewards” are seldom unique enough to be valuable or if unique, useful.

In Diablo you can open various chests, or kill various bosses, and then an unidentified ring drops. And you’re like: “Ooooooh, what’s this then?”. There is anticipation, and quite often it is something useful, so that’s the pay off.

This is usually followed by having Deckard Cain identify it, it being substandard to something you have (or just something not useful, like +Int for your Warrior), and it fueling your gambling addiction if you’re in Diablo 2. (Sweet, +2 to Fire Skills for the Sorceress and I’m a Paladin! -head meets desk-)

Now take GW2. I find a hidden cave. I know there’s nothing in there before I explore it. There is no anticipation. I may feel curious to explore it, but I know that what ever lies at the end of the tunnel, it will not be a reward. And I know most of the bosses are a waste of my time. Statistically, it always seem that in GW2 killing a bunch of trash mobs is more rewarding than spending a few minutes hacking away at some lone veteran in a cave. There is no pay off.

Again, the previous two games have the same problem. Minecraft – I could branch mine a chunk or four for three hours and probably find more usable material than just trying to go cave-diving. I could find a dungeon with a Spawner but the chest probably is going to hold . . . wait for it . . . four pieces of Wheat, a Bucket, and some String. Maybe Iron!

Diablo? There is an increasing chance as you get better and better gear to drop that the next drop is not going to be useful to you. This gets painful in later games, where gear makes up the bulk of your stats and potential to win rather than tactics of engagement. You may think there’s excitement in what drops out of a chest but I go: “Oh, green belt? Probably Arctic Binding again.”

No recent game has really made me feel okay about exploring areas rather than spending time elsewhere. Older games which do? Roguelikes such as “Castle of the Winds” and “Nethack”, and the Gold Box games from SSI. And honorable mention to Baldur’s Gate, for rarely having an area with nothing of interest.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I find a hidden cave in gw2 and I don’t go in. It’s not really hidden as I have 100% map exploration, I’ve already been in and there is absolutely no reason for me to go back.

100% map completion means you managed to step over every invisible dividing line in the ingame regions. It does NOT mean you’ve been everywhere.