Guild Wars 2

First: I am not going to read through this very lengthy thread to see if my concerns are already voiced before I set them into the thread for myself.

Secondly, let me say that the idea of Guild Events is very exciting to me, and I welcome it.

That having been said, and seeing Developers speak about “long term” commitments etc. as the reason for Level 5 (in whatever Tier, the one given was War, which of course set off a fire storm…)

I would have loved to have seen this done as an entire Tier based system, that is to say, at every Tier have something available so that smaller and less SUPER-UBER-BIG-AND-BEEFY Guilds could have some involvement, and spiffy stuff to do. Less elitist, more inclusive of all types of guilds and all level of current achievement in their own guild progress.

Say at level 1 in Architecture you get: The tiny jumping puzzle of Doom
At Level 5 Architecture you get: The big honkin’ awful, but completely worth it puzzle of Doom.

My thoughts anyway.

I have to agree with bluewanders. Voice your opinion, make your concerns known and explain your position with intelligant arguments. However at the end of the day you might have to accept it as just he way it is. If you don’t like it fine. If it affects you negatively then.. oh well I guess. Deal with it the best you can or move on. Such is life. However, trying to stop content is rather extreme. Would I have liked to see the content implemented in a different manner? Absolutely. But I still would like to see it implemented even though it is unlikely I will ever participate in it. There are other things to do so I’m sure I can find a goal to work towards. And if I can’t I’m sure I can occupy my time in another manner. But if people find satisfaction in the new content and that keeps them playing which in turn keeps all those wonderful people gainfully employed then all is well in the world.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

SNIP

~Izzy @-’—-

Then, with all due respect, you guys should have labeled it differently. Why would a PvE guild ever buy those guild lines before now? It gives multi-faceted guilds a huge headstart just in terms of which buffs they have open. My guild is fully unlocked on PvE buffs, but had the description of Art of War said even an iota of something about PvE, I would have purchased it. If nothing else, it’s a real shame about the lack of communication about what Art of War does.

I’d hate to say anything dumb, but as a leader of a fairly big sized guild(110 people) I am pretty ticked about it and I feel I have very good reason for being ticked. You are putting PvE unlocks in what has been ENTIRELY a WvW line. A heads up on it a month ago would have been great. I love your guys game. I downright adore it, but the fact that this was totally glossed over by you guys and you didnt even see that it would be an issue and I made a thread about this before it even happened and you guys didnt respond to it is totally disconcerting. My guild now has to wait way longer than it should have to because you all are putting a PvE buff in a WvW line and telling us about it way too late.

I personally don’t think you should need level 5 in any tree to START doing a guild mission. Maybe you will need to unlock level 5 eventually to get more but you shouldn’t need level 5 to start out. If you want guild missions to be a feature that everyone partakes in then you are setting the gate a little too high.

Also I’m just bewildered that you decided to put the guild missions in Art of War. Guild Missions are entirely PvE focused and yet it’s in a WvW tree? It makes no sense to me. I would like to hear what the dev’s rational for putting it into Art of War is. :/

bluewanders.5297:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

But your also basing this on a democracy, the country might be a democratic society but the gaming world and indeed, on this forums is it really democratic? I’ve already voiced my personal opinion on my FB pages, raptr and here that these changes, if go live will be extremely unhealthy for the game. However, what many people and players need to realized that these changes will affect the game on many different layers, and I think even anet themselves haven’t fully realized the implications of this patch.

For small and even moderately sized guilds, getting influence isn’t nearly as fast as it was at launch. The average guilds have maybe 1 – 20 members online during the day, that is including non-representing members too, so your talking a really low amount of daily influence generated, because once your 80 ~ not many people will be grinding out influence – You don’t earn Influence for completing dungeons etc either and the time to actually research upgrades takes a considerably long time, Your talking 95 hours to go from Art of War III to IV for instance, and 10,000 influence – for a small/medium guild these days, that is a pretty significant amount.

So, the outcome will be members in small PvE or small casual guilds which didn’t invest or couldn’t afford to invest in high level guild upgrades will then either quit or stop representing the small/medium guilds completely, effectively stopping growth and ultimately killing the guild. These alone, obviously is going to be a driving force in people quitting the game.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

bluewanders.5297:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

But your also basing this on a democracy, the country might be a democratic society but the gaming world and indeed, on this forums is it really democratic? I’ve already voiced my personal opinion on my FB pages, raptr and here that these changes, if go live will be extremely unhealthy for the game. However, what many people and players need to realized that these changes will affect the game on many different layers, and I think even anet themselves haven’t fully realized the implications of this patch.

For small and even moderately sized guilds, getting influence isn’t nearly as fast as it was at launch. The average guilds have maybe 1 – 20 members online during the day, that is including non-representing members too, so your talking a really low amount of daily influence generated, because once your 80 ~ not many people will be grinding out influence – You don’t earn Influence for completing dungeons etc either and the time to actually research upgrades takes a considerably long time, Your talking 95 hours to go from Art of War III to IV for instance, and 10,000 influence – for a small/medium guild these days, that is a pretty significant amount.

So, the outcome will be members in small PvE or small casual guilds which didn’t invest or couldn’t afford to invest in high level guild upgrades will then either quit or stop representing the small/medium guilds completely, effectively stopping growth and ultimately killing the guild. These alone, obviously is going to be a driving force in people quitting the game.

Totally agree and it is sad.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

You know you can still create content for large guilds to strive for without making it extremely difficult for small guilds to just get their feet wet with the content?

The mentality is going to become that if you want to do this new content then you don’t rep/partake in a small guild, because the whole of the content and rewards resides with large guilds.

Basically, there is no wisdom in gating the first mission behind a research wall beyond the grasp of most small guilds. Gating further content beyond easy access makes an adequate amount of sense. Gating the initial content beyond that wall hurts small guilds and makes a meaningless difference for large guilds.

The problem I have with this is that the focus is Art of War. If you devs had made any tier 5 the start I don’t think there would be as much backlash. By that I mean you must have tier 5 of any branch does not matter which and once it is done it is done. People put in resouces to what they feel is important. This update tells people that the only important aspect of the game is WvW (which is the only use of Art of War). You say eventually… well great but ‘if wishes where horses, beggar would ride’ comes to mind. We are planning something, we think something just gets stale until it is actually placed in the game.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Small guilds can access the content, they just need to work towards it. I don’t see what’s so hard. It’s like complaining that dungeons have level gates. Oh, we’re a casual guild of 5, we don’t have enough time to play, we’re all only level 40+, why are dungeons so high level, it’s unfair ….. wah, wah, wah.

Why does everyone expect all content to be accessible immediately? Why can’t ArenaNet patch in content that requires some amount of effort to access?

For monthes, some European guilds could not play on European servers due to lag/disconnection problems. They had to go on US servers for a while. When A.Net announced that changing servers would cost something we went back on European servers (just a few weeks ago) and started once again the guild XP grind from scratch.

For a small guild, it takes monthes to unlock all the levels. Well, we have been playing for monthes, but due to the poor quality of service we experienced in Europe for monthes, the points of my guild are spread over three servers (two European, one US) and we have only been on our actual server for a month or so.

Creating new content is nice, letting people access it is better! And compensating for your mistakes (aka LAG !!!) and the consequences it had on the guilds would be nice (aka give me my guild points back !!!).

People will always complain on every update but they will get over it or gasp…. quit. Guilds will have to split up into teams and take down bosses in 4-5 zones at the same time. But small guilds can get non guild members to help so if they work for it they can do it. I really don’t see the problem people will just have to spend time getting their guild ready to do it.

Gus.5081:

For monthes, some European guilds could not play on European servers due to lag/disconnection problems. They had to go on US servers for a while. When A.Net announced that changing servers would cost something we went back on European servers (just a few weeks ago) and started once again the guild XP grind from scratch.

For a small guild, it takes monthes to unlock all the levels. Well, we have been playing for monthes, but due to the poor quality of service we experienced in Europe for monthes, the points of my guild are spread over three servers (two European, one US) and we have only been on our actual server for a month or so.

Creating new content is nice, letting people access it is better! And compensating for your mistakes (aka LAG !!!) and the consequences it had on the guilds would be nice (aka give me my guild points back !!!).

I’ve never understood why so many mmo companies sell their games to Europeans and Aussies when they know there is going to be horrible lag and downtime for maintance is going to affect these players the most.

I know it’s expensive but why not put the EU servers in Europe to begin with lol.

Lol. And people thought that Anet would implement this system in a fair and logical way. If Anet has proven anything with updates to this game, it’s that they don’t know how to properly update and balance a game. The fact that so many people, to this day, are surprised by this still astounds me.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

we Mushrooms get a wee bit more light … thanks, err, I think?

:)

I guess I don’t really understand the attitude of many of the people who reside in smallish guilds expecting the developers to cater to them, especially the people in 2-10 person guilds. Keep in mind this is an MMO.
Every MMO has content for large groups. To use the most popular of them, WoW, it had 40-mans and 25-man raids I think. Was there an uproar from the small guilds or was it just accepted as part of MMO culture?

As much as we currently know about the new guild mission content, it seems anyone can join in on the open world content to get the personal rewards. As far as the guild rewards, I personally don’t think a 2-person guild should have the rights to the same guild rewards as larger guilds. That’s selfish and doesn’t promote group play.
There’s nothing stopping anyone from joining the open world group content started by larger guilds, and there’s nothing stopping anyone from repping larger guilds to do this content if it’s not open world. If the rewards down the line are things like guild castles or things of this nature, it’s rather silly to think that every small guild would be capable of achieving it without much distress.

Again, the complaints of these extremely smallish guilds needs to simmer down a little. Clearly content that is designed for large group play isn’t going to be suitable for small guilds. It’s akin to a player that likes solo-play complaining that dungeons are meant for 5 people. If your guild isn’t big enough for this new content, then don’t do it. Are you going to miss out on a new exotic skin or maybe save 20 copper on a waypoint? Who cares, if whatever the reward is, is important enough to you, rep a larger guild or simply join a larger guild, it is an MMO after all.

declan.3968:

Small guilds can access the content, they just need to work towards it. I don’t see what’s so hard. It’s like complaining that dungeons have level gates. Oh, we’re a casual guild of 5, we don’t have enough time to play, we’re all only level 40+, why are dungeons so high level, it’s unfair ….. wah, wah, wah.

Why does everyone expect all content to be accessible immediately? Why can’t ArenaNet patch in content that requires some amount of effort to access?

I’m sorry, but how much more effort did you put in more than I? Other than deciding to join a large guild that is? My (very) small guild takes a lot longer to do things with our limited amount, so i would actually think we are putting more effort in than you.

I suppose though, that if you still feel that way, I could go drop $40 at the gem store to buy some more “effort” and then catch right up to you.

I don’t believe the question of effort in this thread has to do entirely with the player base.

/shrug

@Shonie This is one of the reasons for the backlash, not many players want to be part of a huge super guild, also this isn’t WoW. You also have to understand that since Lost Shores many many guilds have died, many other guilds even ex-larger guilds have lost significant amount of players – then you have larger guilds where hardly anyone reps and finally, you have your super guilds where you are forced to rep or kicked out.

Essentially all these new guild upgrades, cater to a more selective market of players. The hardcore types, and everyone else is being screwed over. As is, I seriously question the developers choices – or should I start linking to Jay Wilsons resignation and say ~ This will happen to Anet soon? Honestly right now, without any shadow of doubt – if these changes go live – the game as a whole, the community – everything will suffer greatly. We’ll see another massive backlash, the forums are already fractured enough -

If any developer, moderator or GM is reading these posts carefully and even remotely cares about the game, about the players – there is more than enough evidence here that these changes are seriously bad for the game right now.

As a professional gamer, my personal recommendation right now would be to seriously hold-on on these patches until further research and community feedback has been done. After all, isn’t player satisfaction and player confidence in your Company important? Are you guys really risking to go ahead with something that could, be the catalyst that could utterly destroy the game? Or at least, force you guys to lose another portion of playerbase?

Shonie.5297:

I guess I don’t really understand the attitude of many of the people who reside in smallish guilds expecting the developers to cater to them, especially the people in 2-10 person guilds. Keep in mind this is an MMO.
Every MMO has content for large groups. To use the most popular of them, WoW, it had 40-mans and 25-man raids I think. Was there an uproar from the small guilds or was it just accepted as part of MMO culture?

I guess you haven’t seen the topics suggesting introducing Raids in GW2 and the strong opposition to that idea.
People that want Raids are mostly playing WoW. Those that switched to GW2 are those that didn’t like that gating feature.

So, mentioning Raids is not really helping your argument.

Astralporing.1957:

Shonie.5297:

I guess I don’t really understand the attitude of many of the people who reside in smallish guilds expecting the developers to cater to them, especially the people in 2-10 person guilds. Keep in mind this is an MMO.
Every MMO has content for large groups. To use the most popular of them, WoW, it had 40-mans and 25-man raids I think. Was there an uproar from the small guilds or was it just accepted as part of MMO culture?

I guess you haven’t seen the topics suggesting introducing Raids in GW2 and the strong opposition to that idea.
People that want Raids are mostly playing WoW. Those that switched to GW2 are those that didn’t like that gating feature.

So, mentioning Raids is not really helping your argument.

Open world large scale events were popular in previous games.
Nobody is forcing you to do new large scale content meant for larger groups.
If your group/guild isn’t capable of completing new content, the solution is pretty obvious if it’s important enough to you to partake in.
This game has elements that cater to many playstyles, and much like any of the content in this game, it is all optional.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

@Shonie This is one of the reasons for the backlash, not many players want to be part of a huge super guild, also this isn’t WoW. You also have to understand that since Lost Shores many many guilds have died, many other guilds even ex-larger guilds have lost significant amount of players – then you have larger guilds where hardly anyone reps and finally, you have your super guilds where you are forced to rep or kicked out.

Essentially all these new guild upgrades, cater to a more selective market of players. The hardcore types, and everyone else is being screwed over. As is, I seriously question the developers choices – or should I start linking to Jay Wilsons resignation and say ~ This will happen to Anet soon? Honestly right now, without any shadow of doubt – if these changes go live – the game as a whole, the community – everything will suffer greatly. We’ll see another massive backlash, the forums are already fractured enough -

If any developer, moderator or GM is reading these posts carefully and even remotely cares about the game, about the players – there is more than enough evidence here that these changes are seriously bad for the game right now.

As a professional gamer, my personal recommendation right now would be to seriously hold-on on these patches until further research and community feedback has been done. After all, isn’t player satisfaction and player confidence in your Company important? Are you guys really risking to go ahead with something that could, be the catalyst that could utterly destroy the game? Or at least, force you guys to lose another portion of playerbase?

I think you’re being a little over dramatic.

Shonie.5297:

Astralporing.1957:

Shonie.5297:

I guess I don’t really understand the attitude of many of the people who reside in smallish guilds expecting the developers to cater to them, especially the people in 2-10 person guilds. Keep in mind this is an MMO.
Every MMO has content for large groups. To use the most popular of them, WoW, it had 40-mans and 25-man raids I think. Was there an uproar from the small guilds or was it just accepted as part of MMO culture?

I guess you haven’t seen the topics suggesting introducing Raids in GW2 and the strong opposition to that idea.
People that want Raids are mostly playing WoW. Those that switched to GW2 are those that didn’t like that gating feature.

So, mentioning Raids is not really helping your argument.

Open world large scale events were popular in previous games.
Nobody is forcing you to do new large scale content meant for larger groups.
If your group/guild isn’t capable of completing new content, the solution is pretty obvious if it’s important enough to you to partake in.
This game has elements that cater to many playstyles, and much like any of the content in this game, it is all optional.

Actually, it really isn’t optional at all. Like with grinding – your fooled into thinking it’s optional. In so many ways, your saying join a super guild or quit the game in so many words, remember the huge backlash when Ascended items first appeared? This new patch will essentially be just as bad – and this time, I’m fully prepared to fight against anet if I have too, the players can only really be pushed, ignored or screwed over so much.

As for being over dramatic? Am I really? If the problems this game are directly facing wasn’t that serious – I would agree with you. But, the problems right now are that serious, shall I start posting famously bad ideas that have appeared in MMos since the early days? One thing I’ve learned from playing so many different MMos, being a member of so many different and varied communities over the years – one thing that I’ve learned is that you have alot of arrogant and self centered players, but you also have alot of arrogant and self centered developers too. Sure, I might be a little arrogant at the moment, but I’m 100% behind this game being an open, balanced and fair game for every type of player – can you say the same?

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Shonie.5297:

Astralporing.1957:

Shonie.5297:

I guess I don’t really understand the attitude of many of the people who reside in smallish guilds expecting the developers to cater to them, especially the people in 2-10 person guilds. Keep in mind this is an MMO.
Every MMO has content for large groups. To use the most popular of them, WoW, it had 40-mans and 25-man raids I think. Was there an uproar from the small guilds or was it just accepted as part of MMO culture?

I guess you haven’t seen the topics suggesting introducing Raids in GW2 and the strong opposition to that idea.
People that want Raids are mostly playing WoW. Those that switched to GW2 are those that didn’t like that gating feature.

So, mentioning Raids is not really helping your argument.

Open world large scale events were popular in previous games.
Nobody is forcing you to do new large scale content meant for larger groups.
If your group/guild isn’t capable of completing new content, the solution is pretty obvious if it’s important enough to you to partake in.
This game has elements that cater to many playstyles, and much like any of the content in this game, it is all optional.

Actually, it really isn’t optional at all. Like with grinding – your fooled into thinking it’s optional. In so many ways, your saying join a super guild or quit the game in so many words, remember the huge backlash when Ascended items first appeared? This new patch will essentially be just as bad – and this time, I’m fully prepared to fight against anet if I have too, the players can only really be pushed, ignored or screwed over so much.

As for being over dramatic? Am I really? If the problems this game are directly facing wasn’t that serious – I would agree with you. But, the problems right now are that serious, shall I start posting famously bad ideas that have appeared in MMos since the early days? One thing I’ve learned from playing so many different MMos, being a member of so many different and varied communities over the years – one thing that I’ve learned is that you have alot of arrogant and self centered players, but you also have alot of arrogant and self centered developers too. Sure, I might be a little arrogant at the moment, but I’m 100% behind this game being an open, balanced and fair game for every type of player – can you say the same?

You’re prepared to fight?
Against what exactly? Content patches?
You clearly like the game enough as is to have 8 level 80 characters, extra content even if it has 0% interest for you should matter very little. Keep enjoying the game as is if you don’t want to partake in the guild missions. If you hate the implementation of it so much, maybe it’s time for you to take a step back and take a breather and stop taking everything so seriously. You sound like you want to quit the game and are just looking for a reason to leave, just do what most people do and leave without ranting and raving on forums about things that most of the playerbase finds to be very minor, or adapt to the changes the developers want to implement. You’re not the voice of the playerbase as a whole, not even the voice of the 0.01% of the playerbase that visit these forums.

Guild Missions = Raids in Open World?

bluewanders.5297:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

As with Ascended Gear, I believe the ‘final’ decision was made before they ever let us in on it. All the rational discourse in the universe won’t change that decision in any significant way. They don’t care what we say. They only care about what we do, and they only care about what we do if it impacts them financially, and even then only if the situation is dire – and maybe not even then. And what will we do? Absolutely nothing. Oh, sure, a few disgruntled individuals might be aggravated enough to leave the game – proverbial drops in the bucket – but the vast majority will just grumble a little (if that) and go on.

As I said in one of the previous threads on this topic: the way they’re doing this is backwards. These new Guild Missions should help build up guild influence to unlock more missions along the way, not require mass quantities of it to even get started. That’s just a bad idea.

I disagree. They probably saw alot of complaints, opened this up to see them, and realized upon seeing them that they were baseless.

Shonie.5297:

Shonie.5297:

I guess I don’t really understand the attitude of many of the people who reside in smallish guilds expecting the developers to cater to them, especially the people in 2-10 person guilds. Keep in mind this is an MMO.
Every MMO has content for large groups. To use the most popular of them, WoW, it had 40-mans and 25-man raids I think. Was there an uproar from the small guilds or was it just accepted as part of MMO culture?

Astralporing.1957:

I guess you haven’t seen the topics suggesting introducing Raids in GW2 and the strong opposition to that idea.
People that want Raids are mostly playing WoW. Those that switched to GW2 are those that didn’t like that gating feature.

So, mentioning Raids is not really helping your argument.

Open world large scale events were popular in previous games.

Nope. Open word ungated large scale events were popular. The gated ones were liked only by those that could actually do them – and they always were a minority. Even in WoW.

If your group/guild isn’t capable of completing new content, the solution is pretty obvious if it’s important enough to you to partake in.

Yes, and that obvious solution is actively hurtful for the game.

Snowy.9580:

Vorch.2985:

Can’t all the small guilds just band together?

Ah yes, let’s force players to play with strangers, better still let’s MAKE the server work together (lol GL with that, I’ll not be!).
I see more ignorant players than enough, some barely speak, other train mobs into you and your wanting them to help and vice-versa? rofl you guys kill me!

…Small guilds should not work together to get this content unlocked, because no one should be forced to work together?

How the hell do you expect to be able to even finish some of the content, then? These are large events that happen in areas. They require coordination of large groups or even that participants be in different areas.

Is it really preferable that these small guilds remain isolated from one another rather than making a guild together? You CAN be in multiple guilds…

Concerns:
1. Small Guilds: You are relying on the community to chip in and help, giving small guilds a chance to complete any and all guild missions. I think you saw this idea fall on its face once people stopped running around Orr and temples remained unchallenged. Allowing random people to participate dynamically is great. Relying on those people to help out smaller guilds is terrible design.
2. Rewards: So far I like the rewards announced(reduced waypoint costs, yay!). There has been no information on whether or not there will be personal rewards that increase individual power. I.E. Will there be a chest at the end with ascended items in it? Or a new form of currency(barf..there are too many as it is) to purchase high end gear? Basically, I would love for these guild missions to stay away from anything resembling a raid where only if you participate in these will you be rewarded with the most powerful items. I don’t want to feel like I need to run the guild missions, much like I am feeling the need to run fractals just to have BiS gear that I thought I already had with exotics.
3. If a guild mission becomes bugged, does the guild get refunded that influence? Probably not, but this is different that dynamic events getting bugged/stalled. We are spending guild influence on these missions and if they bug out, we don’t get to complete and do not get reward, but just blew a bunch of influence. I hope these missions were severely tested and this possible issue was examined.

Oreoz.2573:

bluewanders.5297:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

I agree with you completely.

And then i remember back when Anet said they didn’t want to make a grindy game.

Truthfully, they haven’t. It’s all optional.

So people quit playing because they don’t want to grind.

Ironic.

Jeez for the last time everything in this game is as optional as everytng in any game. Yet we do it because what else is there to do. The argument that its all optional is mute. Raiding is optional in wow but we do it because theres nothing else to do. Much like missionswillbe done here.

Literally everything you do in this game is a grind. Guild missions are going to be a grind for smaller guids. Its optional but again so is raiding in wow yet we did all of that…so we are going to do guild missns and grind them out…in a game where this is no grInd

cesmode.4257:

Oreoz.2573:

bluewanders.5297:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

I agree with you completely.

And then i remember back when Anet said they didn’t want to make a grindy game.

Truthfully, they haven’t. It’s all optional.

So people quit playing because they don’t want to grind.

Ironic.

Jeez for the last time everything in this game is as optional as everytng in any game. Yet we do it because what else is there to do. The argument that its all optional is mute. Raiding is optional in wow but we do it because theres nothing else to do. Much like missionswillbe done here.

Literally everything you do in this game is a grind. Guild missions are going to be a grind for smaller guids. Its optional but again so is raiding in wow yet we did all of that…so we are going to do guild missns and grind them out…in a game where this is no grInd

I don’t totally disagree with you, but i am curious, instead of having smaller guilds “grind” out to be able to (just) start these missions, wouldn’t it have been less “grindy” to allow the opening of the missions a bit earlier than tier5? At least folks would feel they are doing the content, as opposed to “grinding” out points just to start it.

Never mind the fact you released the requirement a week (?) before release, in an upgrage spot i’d be almost willing to bet is the least upgraded (overall).

Gate them in earlier with easier missions, that allows progress to harder ones. I mean that seems simple enough really.

In fact, it should be done this way. Open the 10-15 people content at tier 3, and increase the dificult level at higher tier unlocks.

Small guilds will need 1 week to unlock the 10-15 people content, that is the content they are going to play, after all. Big guilds will need 1 week to unlock the 50+ people contet.

Same time and same effort needed, and all the guilds and guild members should be able to play with new content in equal conditions.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

As for being over dramatic? Am I really? If the problems this game are directly facing wasn’t that serious – I would agree with you. But, the problems right now are that serious, shall I start posting famously bad ideas that have appeared in MMos since the early days? One thing I’ve learned from playing so many different MMos, being a member of so many different and varied communities over the years – one thing that I’ve learned is that you have alot of arrogant and self centered players, but you also have alot of arrogant and self centered developers too. Sure, I might be a little arrogant at the moment, but I’m 100% behind this game being an open, balanced and fair game for every type of player – can you say the same?

There have been many silly statements and this has got to be the most over the top. Fight Arenanet? Fight them on what? Start a petition to block the patch? What exactly would this do for you? If the patch comes it seems as though you won’t be playing this content. Your attempts at “blocking” this patch are only blocking it for other members of the community because you don’t think it’s fair that your small guild can’t immediately partake in a new feature. Don’t you think that’s a bit selfish?

I shouldn’t really be talking because my guild is fairly large, we have gotten every upgrade possible, and have hundreds of thousands of influence to spare. So let me give you my point of view of someone who leads one of these blasphemous “super guilds.” (Might I add as a side point – “superguilds” are talked about in this thread like they are some n00Bf3sT, unfun, not friendly, and generally negative experience. I am here to attest that they can be just as close knit as your small guilds, and even more. If you brand your guild and add to your playerbase over multiple years you can have a great community of like-minded players, and have a great guild experience. These guilds are out there!)

It is very hard to find something that a large number of our guild members can participate in together and actually feel like we’re accomplishing something. Yes, we can get together and go storm the Hirathi event, but there comes a point where sheer mass numbers can blow through it in a matter of minutes. We can go into WvW and wreak havoc, but as far as largescale things to do as a guild stop there. Guild missions seem to add more flavor and options for bigger events in the game which is desperately needed.

Where you would argue that the new content is “unfair” because your small guild can’t participate, I would argue the opposite. A typical “small guild” I would say has max of 50 members, and probably 1-5 (maybe more, I don’t know) online at a time. You can get your entire guild to go and do a dungeon, you can go get your entire guild to go quest, do events, havoc squad in WvW, dungeons, or do anything almost 95% of the game is designed to do.

We don’t have that luxury. We don’t have the luxury of choosing from a multitude of things. Right now, we get one thing and that thing is WvW if we want to content together as a whole guild. This gives us more options.

I have talked to several smaller guilds since the announcement and they are as happy as can be. I haven’t met one person in-game who isn’t totally psyched for the new guild content. I hate to say that the people that are posting rage on this forum are likely in the vocal minority when it comes to this. Do you know what would be a good idea? Try to contact some other guilds. Our guild knows and plays with various guilds on our server, and the leaders keep in contact for this very thing. I’ve already been in contact with a few guilds who want to join together to tackle this new content because they are a smaller guild who might not get it right away. Do you understand how this can bolster the community? If you look around I’m sure that you can find some guilds to team up with on your server until you unlock it yourselves, and if that doesn’t work I would invite you and your guildies to guest on Stormbluff Isle and join us when we do some of the events.

I honestly think that these events are designed at a large scale, and require quite a few people to complete. It just seems silly for a smaller guild who can only field a few people to gain access to content instantly that they can’t even complete because it requires 20+ people.

I just hope Arenanet realizes that these forums really bring out the vocal minority to come and complain. It’s hard to read anything on these forums and hear things completely opposite to my experience in game and with guild members or just random people I meet in Tyria. I guess that’s what game discussion boards have evolved into though, right?

Vorch.2985:

You CAN be in multiple guilds…

Sorry I have loyalty as a trait. 1 man, 1 guild!

But forget it, let the big dogs do as they please. Action (or lack thereof) speaks much louder than anything, I just hope they double their gem purchases, because all the “little people” won’t be getting any more.

Yes, it sounds like being held for ransom, but these things are forced upon you, so drastic action must be used.

Tagus Eleuthera.7305:

I disagree. They probably saw alot of complaints, opened this up to see them, and realized upon seeing them that they were baseless.

No one knew about the Art of war thing until mentioned by a dev. they opened this after the post with the devs answer was about 6 pages long.

Zeph.5927:

Lol. And people thought that Anet would implement this system in a fair and logical way. If Anet has proven anything with updates to this game, it’s that they don’t know how to properly update and balance a game. The fact that so many people, to this day, are surprised by this still astounds me.

If ANet have proven anything with updates to this game, it’s that they usually deliver more than you’re expecting, and despite my continued reservations when new updates are announced, I continually find myself being pleasantly surprised.

The news that you would need Level 5 Art of War was a fair kick in the teeth for many people, including me. For now though, I would assume there is a reason why this is the case, instead of screaming about how ANet are plotting to destroy their own player base.

At the end of the day, you can just farm gold and buy Influence – that only leaves the queuing time. /shrug

If people want it, they will get there in the end, or join larger guilds just for the purpose of trying the new stuff. If ArenaNet is finding that too many players are locked out of content for too long, and it’s a detriment to the game, I suspect changes would be made.

For now, I’m opting not to cry myself to sleep every night until the update comes.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

Thanks for the official confirmation that you haven’t learned anything from the fractals feedback. I’ll repeat it once more, for the lulz:
Grinding to be able to even access new/interesting content does not constitute a challenge.
Make the actual content challenging, don’t artificially pad it by making a significant portion of your playerbase unable to experience it in a timely fashion. Unless the challenge is supposed to be “will you still be playing this game in 3 months?”.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

Influence gain scales with number of members and upgrade costs are fixed. You can not possibly balance them for guilds of significantly different sizes. Having tons of upgrades that are expendable or plain not interesting for small guilds was actually a smart design decisionhappy coincidence.

Again… smaller guilds like mine have no problem grinding to open content… high influence costs… and even content that we don’t have enough members to complete (yet)..

What we do take exception to is being excluded from for a time and bleeding players to large guilds while we struggle to react in a timely fashion.

I encourage you to have content for small and large guilds alike… and make them as expensive and convoluted to activate as you like.

But never never never exclude portions of the community from participating in new rewards systems that will make them feel like if they want the currency they have to radically alter their playing preferences. The reasons WHY we don’t want to be in a large guild are of no consequence…

You could have avoided these feelings in many of us by letting us know a month ago we needed to waste all our influence and build queue slots into AoW… we would have done it without complaint (at least my guild would have)… you could have avoided these feelings by placing content in a more attractive tree… you could have avoided these feelings by placing the new content in a tree all its own.

The ONLY thing we are taking an exception to is being excluded from launch content at launch time. And due to this, we are already bleeding players.

I can totally understand that those in very small guilds are disappointed about the news about AoW tier 5 being required for the guild missions.
But I also think that this is intended and that the guild missions are something these small guilds wouldn’t be able to complete anyway. The guild missions are supposed (or so it seems to me, maybe I’m wrong) to introduce something of the grand raid-achievement that has been missing from GW2 (well, except WvW).

Because as it stands now, everything worthwile in GW2 PVE is focussed on 5 persons. The larger outdoor events like dragons are so faceroll easy that they don’t feel like an accomplishment.
Therefore, I think (or rather hope) they are correcting this mistake now and introduce PVE stuff to do for large guilds.

The issue I’m having with this is that Arenanet is under the assumption that no other MMO system with guilds and raid guilds have ever existed before Guild Wars 2. The raiding guilds have ALWAYS been less than 10% of the player base. Having launch content that requires raid content progression is a recipe for disaster. It will only create a war between the smaller real life banded together guilds with the loot whorish heavy raid guilds that want to only grind content to max completion. If the press releases weren’t so conflicting I doubt most of this wouldn’t be such an issue. Don’t post and retweet Leah Rivera’s content overview saying that small guilds of 3 people can do this on day 1 when it’s not actually true. Art of War 5 is extremely specific and not posted in ANY press release outside of an argument thread in the forums. We had a discussion just in map chat today about it and most people in guilds already have no idea Art of War 5 is required. Most got confused thinking that the new bounties are in WvW based on Art of War 5 being required. Communication and warning would have helped with this problem alone.

The other point of contention is the scavenging that is going to happen. Raiding alliances never work. It just doesn’t. 15 years of being in guilds doing raid content have shown me otherwise. Those who are attracted by the shinies in one guild will leave the smaller one to get it thus eliminating the use or desire to be in a small guild. It’s just how it works. If Arenanet was aiming to create unity apparently they forgot the laws of MMO Lootwhoring 101.

Borikitty.1302:

The other point of contention is the scavenging that is going to happen. Raiding alliances never work. It just doesn’t. 15 years of being in guilds doing raid content have shown me otherwise. Those who are attracted by the shinies in one guild will leave the smaller one to get it thus eliminating the use or desire to be in a small guild. It’s just how it works. If Arenanet was aiming to create unity apparently they forgot the laws of MMO Lootwhoring 101.

One thing I have found particularly interesting in this thread is that it is apparently perfectly acceptable for small guilds to be told they can just split up and be absorbed into larger guilds… but it would be sacrilegious to say “what? no content for big guilds? well why don’t you disband and fracture into multiple small guilds?”

Guilds of all sizes can have guild loyalty, history, and community that they don’t want to give up… the answer should NEVER be to force players to radically alter the way they interact with the games other players in order to remain on an even level (proportionatly speaking) with other players who possess different values but the same desires.

declan.3968:

Small guilds can access the content, they just need to work towards it. I don’t see what’s so hard. It’s like complaining that dungeons have level gates. Oh, we’re a casual guild of 5, we don’t have enough time to play, we’re all only level 40+, why are dungeons so high level, it’s unfair ….. wah, wah, wah.

Why does everyone expect all content to be accessible immediately? Why can’t ArenaNet patch in content that requires some amount of effort to access?

Firstly your analogy is incorrect. It’s more like if dungeons didn’t exist in the game and suddenly dungeons are new content but only available to those at lvl 80. Yeah people could level up to play the dungeon and rush through content or people could be invited to a group and let themselves be carried but why should they do either and how does that the effect the community/game long term? The person who rushes through content will feel as though the game is shallow and doesn’t have much to deliver causing them to leave after a while because they consumed it all too quickly. The second we’ve seen with fractals already, who is going to allow lowbies in high level dungeons? This fractures the community between high levels who don’t want to carry lowbies and lowebies who feel extremely left out and eventually leave the game causing a cascade of problems to high levels.

We’ve all seen the butterfly effect that these issues cause in other MMOs and since GW2 tooted itself to be different from other MMOs causing the same problems that kill others seems counter productive don’t you think?

I’ve not seen anyone complain that large guilds SHOULDN’T have harder content to do that their sheer mass numbers can do, however excluding small guilds from even participating isn’t right either.
[Edit]Grabbed the wrong quote.

bluewanders.5297:

Borikitty.1302:

The other point of contention is the scavenging that is going to happen. Raiding alliances never work. It just doesn’t. 15 years of being in guilds doing raid content have shown me otherwise. Those who are attracted by the shinies in one guild will leave the smaller one to get it thus eliminating the use or desire to be in a small guild. It’s just how it works. If Arenanet was aiming to create unity apparently they forgot the laws of MMO Lootwhoring 101.

One thing I have found particularly interesting in this thread is that it is apparently perfectly acceptable for small guilds to be told they can just split up and be absorbed into larger guilds… but it would be sacrilegious to say “what? no content for big guilds? well why don’t you disband and fracture into multiple small guilds?”

Guilds of all sizes can have guild loyalty, history, and community that they don’t want to give up… the answer should NEVER be to force players to radically alter the way they interact with the games other players in order to remain on an even level (proportionatly speaking) with other players who possess different values but the same desires.

Oh very much agreed. Raising a guild progression tree in a small guild is an achievement that we relish. We enjoy the perks that come with it and everyone is happy when it happens. Especially shared storage, etc. opening up. Or banners we can place that benefit even non-guild members in an open field. Now requiring currently pvp/wvw content heavy progression that only benefits what.. 10% of the player base now and saying it’s “launch” content is the biggest issue people are facing now. It should be it’s own tree and let the smaller guilds access from day 1. We can only spawn 3 bosses now instead of up to 7 anyway so why the artificial wall at launch? Even if the dev said that right now Art of War is pvp heavy now but won’t be in the future.. doesn’t change the fact that NOW it’s pvp/wvw exclusive content. Makes no sense to create a brand new line out of a restrictive tree and say it’s launch content. This is worse than the debacle from November where most of the player base couldn’t even even enter the zone with the karka..

Turkman.1089:

But I also think that this is intended and that the guild missions are something these small guilds wouldn’t be able to complete anyway.

That’s the problem. Leah Rivera’s post had it where you spawn it and everyone in that zone can kill it and everyone can get “something” out of it. So no.. that is incorrect that small guilds are incapable of doing this content. If that were the case why did she bother wasting an entire post saying we could? See the problem with communication?

Odd thought, please disregard if it sounds like it’s stupid.

- Ill-prepared small guilds can’t start Guild Bounty, but can find a ready guild to go do the events on.
- They’re ill-prepared to start because of Influence cost and time, presumably?
- By getting the whole small guild together in one spot to do the event, they earn Influence at an already-inflated rate. Thus, they earn more Influence faster for participating even if they don’t earn these Merits.
- If they participate enough, they can afford the upgrades and wait out the 2 weeks of build time to get there. I’m fairly certain 2 weeks is a conservative amount, I don’t know for sure.
- BY participating, they know what to expect and thus when it’s their turn they are more capable of doing it. They find another small guild to invite along . . . and thus help someone else start climbing the ladder.

What bothers me most is that Anet has now shown us twice that gated content will continue to be a part of their development process. They clearly didn’t learn a thing from the fractals fiasco.

Based on the response from Izzy Cartwright I suspect that Anet is not willing to change this decision, no matter what our opinions or concerns are. This thread might as well be closed and players can decide for themselves if they continue to play the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Odd thought, please disregard if it sounds like it’s stupid.

- Ill-prepared small guilds can’t start Guild Bounty, but can find a ready guild to go do the events on.
- They’re ill-prepared to start because of Influence cost and time, presumably?
- By getting the whole small guild together in one spot to do the event, they earn Influence at an already-inflated rate. Thus, they earn more Influence faster for participating even if they don’t earn these Merits.
- If they participate enough, they can afford the upgrades and wait out the 2 weeks of build time to get there. I’m fairly certain 2 weeks is a conservative amount, I don’t know for sure.
- BY participating, they know what to expect and thus when it’s their turn they are more capable of doing it. They find another small guild to invite along . . . and thus help someone else start climbing the ladder.

I don’t believe that is a stupid thing to say, however it doesn’t address the core of the problem. The concept that it is “launch” content is the bigger issues. It’s going to take almost 3 weeks to even build Art of War 5 for no benefit outside of those doing wvw (which is a small percentage of the player base anyway). The rest of the server population will have to grind just to get the “launch” content while the raiders get the content open from day 1. For those guilds who don’t read the boards and only read the “official press releases” they are going to get a huge shock on Tuesday when they see pvp requirements on a pve guild content “launch”. Expect chaos on Tuesday.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

What bothers me most is that Anet has now shown us twice that gated content will continue to be a part of their development process. They clearly didn’t learn a thing from the fractals fiasco.

Based on the response from Izzy Cartwright I suspect that Anet is not willing to change this decision, no matter what our opinions or concerns are. This thread might as well be closed and players can decide for themselves if they continue to play the game.

Agreed.. shame that memo hasn’t been sent to Ms. Rivera though..

Agreed.. shame that memo hasn’t been sent to Ms. Rivera though..

Honestly? I expect my guild to do more WvW since a fair portion of them are enjoying poking at it with a long stick currently and finding it’s not distasteful

Chaos? Meh, I think that’s overselling it . . . I’m wagering guilds who are interested are lining up for Art of War right now, or are making plans on how to achieve it. Those who aren’t . . . won’t bother. Kind of like the response to Fractals I saw going on.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Odd thought, please disregard if it sounds like it’s stupid.

- Ill-prepared small guilds can’t start Guild Bounty, but can find a ready guild to go do the events on.
- They’re ill-prepared to start because of Influence cost and time, presumably?
- By getting the whole small guild together in one spot to do the event, they earn Influence at an already-inflated rate. Thus, they earn more Influence faster for participating even if they don’t earn these Merits.
- If they participate enough, they can afford the upgrades and wait out the 2 weeks of build time to get there. I’m fairly certain 2 weeks is a conservative amount, I don’t know for sure.
- BY participating, they know what to expect and thus when it’s their turn they are more capable of doing it. They find another small guild to invite along . . . and thus help someone else start climbing the ladder.

No guilds are ill-prepared…. we looked at, planned… and executed our research in trees for what we valued in them as they existed. There is nothing “ill-prepared” about planning and executing an informed plan.

Many small guilds may have lots of influence saved up…. that they have been saving “in preparation” for upgrades that they might want… without wasting it superfluously in tech trees they have no use for.

Secondly… when laurels were introduced… how would you have liked it if a portion of the population were given the ability to earn them, and you were told that you couldnt get them because you were “ill prepared” but you could and should help everyone who COULD get them to get theirs and start cashing them in for monetary rewards and the like.

You last three paragraphs are fluff and inconsequential to the debate at hand.

We aren’t talking about small guilds not being willing to work to open the content… in fact… most small guilds work MUCH HARDER to open content than large guilds do… because they don’t generate influence like collateral damage in an Schwarzenegger movie. We are talking about them being excluded from launch content… when it easily could have been avoided without putting anyone off.

This entire debate probably would have never happened if the launch content were gated behind level 5 in economy. It doesn’t belong there either, by the way… not the first ever available content for guilds to do that is specifically for guilds to do… sure later content can go wherever… but launch content should never exclude people when there are reward systems attached to it.

Vorch.2985:

• Can’t all the small guilds just band together?

• Or the 5 people in your guild join another guild all together? You’d still be in the same guild…

• Is it the name of the guild or the exclusivity of it that keeps the 5-man-or-less guild together? Does being part of something larger detract from your kinship?

• Can the guild stay together, but simply rep another guild on the side for the guild missions?

These are just things that come to mind, sorry.

There is a reason that we of the small guilds don’t simply do that. I’m not sure about others, but for my case, we formed bonds in gw1 and there was a bunch more there then. Others have yet to pick the game up or prefer to play gw1 over 2 due to certain mechanics not being towards their liking, thus dwindling our ranks.

Plus some of us in the small guilds have branched out to make our own side guilds for personal guild storage, which in itself takes a lot of influence too. But the main reason is as you say, kinship for the most part.

“We had a guild in gw1, we want to be in the same guild in gw2, so why should we be forced to represent another guild just because they have 500 people and all the unlocks? We are all close, really good friends, and though there isn’t a lot of us, we play the game actively and shouldn’t be penalized for said participation.”

That’s pretty much the thoughts I’ve had, and probably some of the people in my guild. These missions, though awesome, are going to make it even harder for those small guild that do want more people in their guilds. Everyone will rush to the bigger guilds for the rewards. Hell, that happens already to be completely honest.

I read this somewhere before, but perhaps an additional tree to use influence on for these missions would be better suited for the game.

bluewanders.5297:

This entire debate probably would have never happened if the launch content were gated behind level 5 in economy. It doesn’t belong there either, by the way… not the first ever available content for guilds to do that is specifically for guilds to do… sure later content can go wherever… but launch content should never exclude people when there are reward systems attached to it.

I’m staying out of the debate other than to drop that post off that you quoted for input purposes. My full opinion on this matter isn’t wanted, needed, or popular enough to warrant giving

I’d much rather just sit back and enjoy my Saturday.