Guild Wars 2

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

I have responded to this and missed a point I wanted to make: If you wanted to make it a challenge for all, why let the guilds that already have Art of War unlocked off easy simply because they like WvW? So many people have stated in this thread time and again that it should have been in a new category so that everyone is in the same position. There are quite a few flaws in the design choices for this(either that or there are things you guys aren’t explaining which leaves us in a bad position to come up with relevant reasons for how we want to see content released) and I will list them:

1.) Art of War is WvW. Guilds that don’t WvW have more of that “Challenge” that you speak of. Guilds that like WvW don’t have the same challenge.

2.) You are forcing smaller guilds that want to do this to group up with other guilds. So much for playing the game how we want. Unless you guys are saying, play how you want as long as it’s in big groups, but then just come out and say it.

3.) When you switch a guild category to include PvE when it’s WvW only, give guilds time to build for it. It puts those guilds on unequal footing. You let us know, “Hey! Guild Missions!” We got excited and then 4 days prior to the patch you let us know it was in a category that we may not have built for because our guild may not like that content.

I honestly thought it would be in that tier 5 category that had nothing in it. PvE category, nothing so far related to it. Whatevs though. You guys can either rectify it or not. I just feel like there were honest design mistakes here(intentional or otherwise) and you have given some guilds a head start negating some of your “challenges” for them simply because they enjoy an aspect of your game that maybe others don’t.

Thereon.3495:

Why are so many people moaning at having to work towards something? Its just another case of ‘want it now’. Sure the larger guilds can undertake the missions at a faster rate than the smaller ones but what do you get for completion? All thats been confirmed is added WvW buffs for the guild.

To me its like moaning at the fact that a friend is helping another friend to get their legendary. “Oh dear, its not fair that this person has a friend in GW2 and I dont”. (1) whats the rush? (2) whats stopping smaller guilds from participating? (3) Larger guilds are harder to run so they deserve a ‘headstart’ in the guild missions. I dont hear anyone moaning about the fact larger guilds get more influence for magic find banners and WvW buffs so whats changed?

You sir, hit the nail on the head as they say and I totally agree.

For months a good portion of players have been constantly moaning about no progression, no long term goals etc. You get some and moan even louder.

The more people you apply to a task the faster it gets done (apart from cooking), it’s simple and it’s fair.

As from myself and my guild we would like to thank Anet for another layer of activity to an already amazingly beautiful game. We are all looking forward to giving Guild Missions a go next week.

Genophix

tic.7425:

I’m sorry, but how much more effort did you put in more than I? Other than deciding to join a large guild that is? My (very) small guild takes a lot longer to do things with our limited amount, so i would actually think we are putting more effort in than you.

I suppose though, that if you still feel that way, I could go drop $40 at the gem store to buy some more “effort” and then catch right up to you.

I don’t believe the question of effort in this thread has to do entirely with the player base.

/shrug

The guild I run with is a 100 man Malaysian guild, we only recruit from 1 forum and rarely within the community. The most important thing is doing weekly WvW, running dungeons and fotm everyday and cultivating a fun atmosphere.

You have a small guild, good for you. Things like this should be something to work towards, not handed on a silver platter.

declan.3968:

tic.7425:

I’m sorry, but how much more effort did you put in more than I? Other than deciding to join a large guild that is? My (very) small guild takes a lot longer to do things with our limited amount, so i would actually think we are putting more effort in than you.

I suppose though, that if you still feel that way, I could go drop $40 at the gem store to buy some more “effort” and then catch right up to you.

I don’t believe the question of effort in this thread has to do entirely with the player base.

/shrug

The guild I run with is a 100 man Malaysian guild, we only recruit from 1 forum and rarely within the community. The most important thing is doing weekly WvW, running dungeons and fotm everyday and cultivating a fun atmosphere.

You have a small guild, good for you. Things like this should be something to work towards, not handed on a silver platter.

Small guilds aren’t asking to be handed the whole feast of Guild Missions. We’re talking about the initial mission and the difficulty and time it would take to unlock it.

AGAIN I SAY

You know you can still create content for large guilds to strive for without making it extremely difficult for small guilds to just get their feet wet with the content?

You realize you can have progression and rewards for large guilds without walling off small guilds from the initial mission?

This is very disappointing. I think it’s pretty clear that these Guild Missions are not for “super small guilds” (guilds with less than 10 members).

Consider the information from this interview: http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-I.aspx

The first guild mission you can unlock is Bounty Hunt, which requires Art of War Level 5—something most small guilds neither have nor need. Then, even if they do grind and unlock it, a small Bounty Hunt is 3 targets, in 3 different zones, with a time limit of 15 minutes. Anet says that “maybe 10-15 people can do that”. Apparently, that is their definition of a “super small guild”.

So if a small guild can only muster 5 players, it simply can’t do the missions. (Good luck coordinating pugs!)

I don’t have a problem with Anet designing missions for guilds that have 100+ members. But why not also design missions for smaller guilds (less than 10 people)? That way, guilds of all shapes and sizes could enjoy some new content.

declan.3968:

tic.7425:

I’m sorry, but how much more effort did you put in more than I? Other than deciding to join a large guild that is? My (very) small guild takes a lot longer to do things with our limited amount, so i would actually think we are putting more effort in than you.

I suppose though, that if you still feel that way, I could go drop $40 at the gem store to buy some more “effort” and then catch right up to you.

I don’t believe the question of effort in this thread has to do entirely with the player base.

/shrug

The guild I run with is a 100 man Malaysian guild, we only recruit from 1 forum and rarely within the community. The most important thing is doing weekly WvW, running dungeons and fotm everyday and cultivating a fun atmosphere.

You have a small guild, good for you. Things like this should be something to work towards, not handed on a silver platter.

Other than the sarcasm of buying my way, which part of my post led you to believe i wanted anything on a silver platter?

enLight.1695:

This is very disappointing. I think it’s pretty clear that these Guild Missions are not for “super small guilds” (guilds with less than 10 members).

Consider the information from this interview: http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-I.aspx

The first guild mission you can unlock is Bounty Hunt, which requires Art of War Level 5—something most small guilds neither have nor need. Then, even if they do grind and unlock it, a small Bounty Hunt is 3 targets, in 3 different zones, with a time limit of 15 minutes. Anet says that “maybe 10-15 people can do that”. Apparently, that is their definition of a “super small guild”.

So if a small guild can only muster 5 players, it simply can’t do the missions. (Good luck coordinating pugs!)

I don’t have a problem with Anet designing missions for guilds that have 100+ members. But why not also design missions for smaller guilds (less than 10 people)? That way, guilds of all shapes and sizes could enjoy some new content.

I believe the core of the issues is the conflict of communications. However, in the process we found out it would require Art of War 5 from the same string of communication which unfortunately conflicts with the “official” press release that’s attached to the video that everyone was initially excited about.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-new-guild-missions/

“But what if my guild is super small?” you may say? Not to worry—all these missions take place in the persistent world, which gives you the ability to rally people from the surrounding countryside and maybe make some new friends in the process!

That’s the problem with the Arenanet press releases. If the “official” one says smaller guilds have the same access while the other one buried in redit said another (and confirmed twice by mods here to be correct) they should have said so from the beginning. Other MMO’s at least are up front on how they shaft you by saying “raiding content available in next patch”. That way I don’t get my hopes up because I know I’m being shafted ahead of schedule :p Telling me it’s not pvp content but putting it with a pvp progression tree is not helping the issue.

etiolate.9185:

Small guilds aren’t asking to be handed the whole feast of Guild Missions. We’re talking about the initial mission and the difficulty and time it would take to unlock it.

Agreed. We know it will take months just to unlock the guild jumping puzzles. Why it requires pvp progression to get to jumping puzzles, exploration and racing is actually hysterically stupid if you think about it. They must really want people to do wvw to sacrifice 90% of the player base to get to it.. LOL

There are just so many problems with this patch for such a wide ranging group of people, honestly it should just be cancelled for now. It isn’t really even about gated content for smaller guilds, because the smaller guilds will never never be able to do any of the guild missions anyway – it probably wouldn’t be so bad if the rewards for doing them was minor, but they are not.

Anet are being total fools here by just catering to the very large and very active guilds. If alot of players here think they’ll have access to this content, even then they might be sorely disappointed – as stated, even the guild bounties will require 15 guild members online at once – you know how many guilds struggle with that these days? Doesn’t sound like a lot of members, but when you factor in how many guilds have died, have many people have quit and how many players who don’t represent 24/7?

…I almost feel like starting my own guild and buying all the influence myself just to show how badly this thread is screaming entitlement. 60g to buy the influnce completely with gold, 2 weeks to research if I dont decide to speed up the upgrades.

The guild Im in has ten people max log in a day, typically around 4-7 online in the afternoon, Im pretty sure everyone wouldn’t mind forking over a few gold if it was really absolutely necessary. Its a new guild, bout a month old, guess what we have everything upgraded to at least r3 in guild, two more upgrades is not much at all to go for.

Not enough people for a bounty? Wert? They said dungeons would be hard. Most massive group events like temples can be done with a 5 man party or less, very skilled playes can solo or duo party content. Not enough people to do an event? Go to WvW and recruit a few people that want the benefits, find another small guild to team up with, heck use this thread as a recruiting tool. Its really not that hard…

Actually, screaming entitlement has always been hardcore and elitists – They automatically feel entitled, what the rest of the players want is equal treatment, and fair and honest practices – We’re not seeing that here, this is one of the reasons for the backlash.

declan.3968:

tic.7425:

I’m sorry, but how much more effort did you put in more than I? Other than deciding to join a large guild that is? My (very) small guild takes a lot longer to do things with our limited amount, so i would actually think we are putting more effort in than you.

I suppose though, that if you still feel that way, I could go drop $40 at the gem store to buy some more “effort” and then catch right up to you.

I don’t believe the question of effort in this thread has to do entirely with the player base.

/shrug

The guild I run with is a 100 man Malaysian guild, we only recruit from 1 forum and rarely within the community. The most important thing is doing weekly WvW, running dungeons and fotm everyday and cultivating a fun atmosphere.

You have a small guild, good for you. Things like this should be something to work towards, not handed on a silver platter.

The only people being handed anything on a silver platter are the big guilds, IE YOU. The small guilds have to work far harder to gain influence for upgrades. What should have been done is influence costs scaling based on the number of players in the guild. That way the big and small guilds would have to put in the same amount of effort.

The guild missions are already designed around bigger guilds, the insult to injury is putting the missions outside of most small guilds reach unless they want to drop a ton of gold for influence. What ArenaNet is effectively doing is killing small guilds and forcing them to join large guilds just for bonuses(waypoint cost reduction is incredibly seductive). This is EXTREMELY POOR DESIGN and ArenaNet should be ashamed. What is going on at ArenaNet? First we get ascended gear, then the dailies, and now this? Whoever is in charge that is pushing these poor designs through needs to step down. What happened to Pre-launch ArenaNet? Those guys had well thought out designs that had logic behind them.

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

riddleguy.9738:

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

Mods already confirmed the existence of one type. “Bounty” and that’s behind the AoW5 wall. No other forms are out at launch. They have to be unlocked after Bounty.. that is.. behind the AoW5 wall..

Distaste.4801:

declan.3968:

tic.7425:

I’m sorry, but how much more effort did you put in more than I? Other than deciding to join a large guild that is? My (very) small guild takes a lot longer to do things with our limited amount, so i would actually think we are putting more effort in than you.

I suppose though, that if you still feel that way, I could go drop $40 at the gem store to buy some more “effort” and then catch right up to you.

I don’t believe the question of effort in this thread has to do entirely with the player base.

/shrug

The guild I run with is a 100 man Malaysian guild, we only recruit from 1 forum and rarely within the community. The most important thing is doing weekly WvW, running dungeons and fotm everyday and cultivating a fun atmosphere.

You have a small guild, good for you. Things like this should be something to work towards, not handed on a silver platter.

The only people being handed anything on a silver platter are the big guilds, IE YOU. The small guilds have to work far harder to gain influence for upgrades. What should have been done is influence costs scaling based on the number of players in the guild. That way the big and small guilds would have to put in the same amount of effort.

The guild missions are already designed around bigger guilds, the insult to injury is putting the missions outside of most small guilds reach unless they want to drop a ton of gold for influence. What ArenaNet is effectively doing is killing small guilds and forcing them to join large guilds just for bonuses(waypoint cost reduction is incredibly seductive). This is EXTREMELY POOR DESIGN and ArenaNet should be ashamed. What is going on at ArenaNet? First we get ascended gear, then the dailies, and now this? Whoever is in charge that is pushing these poor designs through needs to step down. What happened to Pre-launch ArenaNet? Those guys had well thought out designs that had logic behind them.

Well that the thing they have been working for something new with Guild over all man house then the smaller guilds.

I still do not get what wrong with this the smaller guild can still do the event and if you feel bad about not getting the guild rewards there room in the game system to let you join big guilds.
I truly think this is just the AOTM they keep coming up ppl leach on to what new and go crazy over it then the next thing makes them comply forget about what happened before. This has happened ever time something new has came out. I truly think there something wrong with the form community at this point. I think there may be a need to keep some ppl off the forms of thoughts whom have not played the game GW2 in a month or so (not FW2) there view points have been started by there own chose to play or not.

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

Mods already confirmed the existence of one type. “Bounty” and that’s behind the AoW5 wall. No other forms are out at launch. They have to be unlocked after Bounty.. that is.. behind the AoW5 wall..

it was just said the first mission type bounty requires AoW5…i never saw any mods say anything about the other types having to be unlocked after bounty.

Distaste.4801:

The only people being handed anything on a silver platter are the big guilds, IE YOU. The small guilds have to work far harder to gain influence for upgrades. What should have been done is influence costs scaling based on the number of players in the guild. That way the big and small guilds would have to put in the same amount of effort.

BAM!11!!1!!!
That’s the sound the Hammer made when you hit the nail on the head.

On that note, I’m in 2 Guilds. A small 10 man Guild and a Guild with 60+ players on. The 10 man has about 5k influence after saving (for the past few days), the 60+ player guild has OVER 40K.

It’s obviously more efficient to zerg in every aspect of this game. Now guilds.

riddleguy.9738:

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

Mods already confirmed the existence of one type. “Bounty” and that’s behind the AoW5 wall. No other forms are out at launch. They have to be unlocked after Bounty.. that is.. behind the AoW5 wall..

it was just said the first mission type bounty requires AoW5…i never saw any mods say anything about the other types having to be unlocked after bounty.

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-I.aspx

Colin: It’s really spread out all over the game and it depends on which type of mission you’re doing. There are actually five completely different types of missions and based on which one it is – bounty hunts, for example, is the really basic one, that’s the one that you can get right off the bat when [February’s] release first goes out. You actually have to unlock all the other missions types, so it’s literally going to take months for your guild to build up enough influence to unlock all of them.

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

Mods already confirmed the existence of one type. “Bounty” and that’s behind the AoW5 wall. No other forms are out at launch. They have to be unlocked after Bounty.. that is.. behind the AoW5 wall..

it was just said the first mission type bounty requires AoW5…i never saw any mods say anything about the other types having to be unlocked after bounty.

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-I.aspx

Colin: It’s really spread out all over the game and it depends on which type of mission you’re doing. There are actually five completely different types of missions and based on which one it is – bounty hunts, for example, is the really basic one, that’s the one that you can get right off the bat when [February’s] release first goes out. You actually have to unlock all the other missions types, so it’s literally going to take months for your guild to build up enough influence to unlock all of them.

So basically, it’s another grind….
Except a Guild-wide Grind.

Invite as many players as possible…to save up enough influence to unlock Guild Events.

God, this sucks.

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

Mods already confirmed the existence of one type. “Bounty” and that’s behind the AoW5 wall. No other forms are out at launch. They have to be unlocked after Bounty.. that is.. behind the AoW5 wall..

it was just said the first mission type bounty requires AoW5…i never saw any mods say anything about the other types having to be unlocked after bounty.

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-I.aspx

Colin: It’s really spread out all over the game and it depends on which type of mission you’re doing. There are actually five completely different types of missions and based on which one it is – bounty hunts, for example, is the really basic one, that’s the one that you can get right off the bat when [February’s] release first goes out. You actually have to unlock all the other missions types, so it’s literally going to take months for your guild to build up enough influence to unlock all of them.

In that case, that is not cool arenanet. Level 5 art of war is not off the bat. A lot of PVE guild mine included dont have any influence invested in that line as people have been saying. I seriously think you should tweak the requirements a bit before launch. I think the level requirement for bounties should be lowered to level 3 or 2.

But you guys are also missing the other points being made, it isn’t going to just be a matter of unlocking these missions, your guild will also require a significant amount of guild members devoted to doing it, the guild bounty for instance is going to require 10 – 15 players all representing and all online at the same time – for a large or medium active guild, that isn’t a problem. But for all the small guilds, small casual guilds – even medium guilds that are not as active – this spells D O O M for them.

Nurse.1085:

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Borikitty.1302:

riddleguy.9738:

Im reserving judgement until the patch releases. I think some of you guys are overreacting a wee bit….we don’t know what the requirements for the other types of guild missions are.

That being said, i hope some of the mission types are easier to unlock then guild bounties. I think it would be a bad idea if all guild missions required level 5 in a tech tree. Its fine if some mission types take a while to unlock but some should be easier to unlock. If at least one type isnt fairly easy to unlock(i.e require art of war level 3), then i will be very dissapointed.

Mods already confirmed the existence of one type. “Bounty” and that’s behind the AoW5 wall. No other forms are out at launch. They have to be unlocked after Bounty.. that is.. behind the AoW5 wall..

it was just said the first mission type bounty requires AoW5…i never saw any mods say anything about the other types having to be unlocked after bounty.

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-I.aspx

Colin: It’s really spread out all over the game and it depends on which type of mission you’re doing. There are actually five completely different types of missions and based on which one it is – bounty hunts, for example, is the really basic one, that’s the one that you can get right off the bat when [February’s] release first goes out. You actually have to unlock all the other missions types, so it’s literally going to take months for your guild to build up enough influence to unlock all of them.

So basically, it’s another grind….
Except a Guild-wide Grind.

Invite as many players as possible…to save up enough influence to unlock Guild Events.

God, this sucks.

The problem is, there isn’t that many players to go-around anymore. And then, most players will just end up leaving the small guilds or these guilds who cannot do these missions and join the larger ones – effectively killing every small guild in the game.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

But you guys are also missing the other points being made, it isn’t going to just be a matter of unlocking these missions, your guild will also require a significant amount of guild members devoted to doing it, the guild bounty for instance is going to require 10 – 15 players all representing and all online at the same time – for a large or medium active guild, that isn’t a problem. But for all the small guilds, small casual guilds – even medium guilds that are not as active – this spells D O O M for them.

Yeah, this wasn’t thought through enough in my opinion. It seems like they were just focusing on large Guilds and thought “oh, small Guilds won’t mind because they can join in on other people’s Guild missions!”

/shakes fist

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

There are just so many problems with this patch for such a wide ranging group of people, honestly it should just be cancelled for now. It isn’t really even about gated content for smaller guilds, because the smaller guilds will never never be able to do any of the guild missions anyway – it probably wouldn’t be so bad if the rewards for doing them was minor, but they are not.

Anet are being total fools here by just catering to the very large and very active guilds. [snip]

Perhaps the error (foolishness) was not in creating content for a particular small constituency, but in:

1. Setting expectations that the player base would get content for all guilds, actively mis stating that it would be accessible even to small guilds, and then the players discover it is in fact useful, targeted, and accessible only to large guilds.

2. Failing to usefully segment its player base. GW2 was positioned in the market, and initially attracted players (in competition with say WoW) by being the open and inclusive game.

Creating a “have” and “have not” situation that mirrors raid-gear-progression-centric endgames like WoW will cause seemingly out of proportion emotional responses in those who were actively attacked and demeaned by lead developer types in previous games — for being in the 90% of customers whose preferred playstyles were not his own. GW2 reached out in its initial marketing to those other playstyles. Those people not only have needs in the present, they will have memories from the past.

Telling the small guilds to work hard to help the big guilds achieve rewards the small guilds won’t enjoy brings back memories of the WoW An’Quiraj (forgive spelling) gate opening event. That event epitomizes the wedge Kaplan drove in the WoW community between the many non raiders and the few raiders. This release and the way it’s messaged brings back memories of that wedge to me.

Back to segmentation: what are Anet’s numbers? How many people rep small guilds vs large guilds in hours played? How many people have lots of play time vs very little play time? How many people have blocks of uninterrupted playtime vs play with a few people who are understanding when the baby cries or the “pager goes off” from work? There are probably 50 ways to cut the data on what people do. Then you need data on what they enjoy, vs what they are gritting their teeth to do.

I think a basic checklist look against any competent segmentation of the player base by a competent marketing person (or political scientist for that matter) would have taken 10 minutes, would have detected that the small guild population GW2 attracted both from GW1 and WoW (and RIFT, etc) would have had an allergic reaction to exclusive large guild content which created reward haves and have nots. It would have been very straightforward to tweak the plan at the time it was conceived so this reaction would not have happened, and very straightforward to announce/message the introduction to emphasize that the big guilds had an unmet need for meaningful content they could do together, and filling that hole.

I will again be blunt here. Until release, both development and messaging were very clear on what set of customers were targeted and what the game would be like. Decisions were made in a consistent way and expectations were set consistent with those decisions. Since release a number of development choices were made which contradicted those original development principles, and the marketing of those has been mealy mouthed at best and deceptive at worst. A significant erosion of trust continues to occur, and it is that trust which first and foremost is needed for players to keep investing their time (and money — this is the most expensive game I’ve ever played given bank tabs and bag slots on my multiple 80 alts).

If there is a need to serve a broader range of customers to support the game, I have no problem with that. If ArenaNet had simply said, we need some open world content that a big guild can do together which feels like a guild event, such guilds have influence building up they can’t spend, so we’re just going to let influence rich guilds launch these events, and in the spirit of the game anyone who’s around can participate, that would be fine.

Creating a special set of rewards, that could only be earned by big guilds, creates haves and have nots. That should have failed the marketing test before development was done. What is the process which has broken down inside ArenaNet allowing this to happen? Was this all done in someone’s head pre release, and the person running the live team doesn’t have the skill or knowledge to do this intuitively? Is the customer base so diverse or so big that this simply can’t be in one person’s head any more and a more rigorous (bigger company style) process is needed instead?

^ This is the best reasoning and post to date, anet should take notes from this.

On the contrary, the reverse could also be stated Heijincks. Why does the small guilds compromise and be forced into being have nots, or being forced out of being able to compete and/or just having to skip content. If anything, small guilds work even harder than big guilds.

One of the biggest issues here, is that many people are worried (and rightly so) that this content update will kill alot of small and casual guilds, because they’ll not be able to compete with larger more organized guilds, not to mention many players never wanted to join larger super guilds either, they like a more relaxed social/casual guild.

Also, you have to realize that these patches will indeed destroy many guilds – And that is what will lead to many players quitting the game in disgust. Why are the smaller/casual and less active guilds being punished? Lets say, a guild with 100 unique accounts/members started at launch and then lost lets say 80/90 members since launch, so its averaging out at around 10 members logging in per day. The guild has built up a large array of upgrades, and has worked hard. Wouldn’t you be kitten if along comes a new patch which effectively will destroy everything you have worked hard to achieve?

Also, not-representing isn’t the same as being a member – If your not actively representing, you are not contributing anything to the guild, thus not an active member-

I don’t think this will destroy small guilds. It’ll give them a goal to work towards though.

If you haven’t realized it yet, WvW rewards the side with more small and organized guilds rather than the large zerg guilds because at most you can capture one camp/tower for your guild. That means, in order for a WvW match to go well, you’ll need small guilds participating to beef up all the camps and towers.

I don’t think the guild mission favors big guilds either. It just happens that big guilds will get influence faster than small guilds, and that’s natural. I don’t see how you can prevent that because if they make guild missions any easier, then people could just create one man guilds and do them, while the larger guilds just steam roll over it all. That would be lame.

That said, I come from a small guild of 7 man or less lol. It’s not an issue because we’re all friends and specifically play with each other as a small group. Guild missions does offer us a goal to reach, and I don’t see it breaking us. It’ll strengthen us instead.

Basically, I think this patch will be something nice for all guilds. The small, and closed-knit guilds like mine will still be together and we’ll have something to progress towards. Bigger guilds get it faster, but who cares? That’s their advantage, but the small guilds will always have the super closeness of the guild members. If you’re a true small guild, then you have nothing to worry about. If those people in your small guild have any sense of friendship or guildmateship, then they won’t be abandoning their guild.

The most I can see it breaking are the small guilds that aren’t even close to each other.

Small guilds deserve to be at a disadvantage. The bigger guild is usually stronger anyways

You want content that can be done by a guild of 5 people or less?

Please see the rest of PvE.

Heijincks.9267:

Nurse.1085:

Distaste.4801:

The only people being handed anything on a silver platter are the big guilds, IE YOU. The small guilds have to work far harder to gain influence for upgrades. What should have been done is influence costs scaling based on the number of players in the guild. That way the big and small guilds would have to put in the same amount of effort.

BAM!11!!1!!!
That’s the sound the Hammer made when you hit the nail on the head.

On that note, I’m in 2 Guilds. A small 10 man Guild and a Guild with 60+ players on. The 10 man has about 5k influence after saving (for the past few days), the 60+ player guild has OVER 40K.

It’s obviously more efficient to zerg in every aspect of this game. Now guilds.

I’ll play Devil’s Advocate.

Why should big guilds compromise for small guilds? People who form bigger guilds have put more effort into making their guilds. Why should their reward be the same as someone who poured less effort into their guild?

If you want to make things “fair”, then the cumulative work for both sized guilds should be the same. Otherwise, it just sounds like small guilds just want to be entitled to everything.

Also, you are able to represent more than one guild at once. Thus I don’t see small guilds “dying” because of this. If you have a small guild with your friends, should they leave your guild for the sake of the game, they aren’t really friends to begin with.

Here’s the problem: it’s a slippery slope from “why shouldn’t there be rewards for big guilds” to the guild-destroying, have and have not mess the WoW endgame creates. My small guild predates WoW, and is a social unit. We chose not to participate in endgame raiding (well, maybe a few PUGs, but that’s not really participating) and by that choice became have-nots in WoW (and for that matter several other games).

I would prefer to be part of games that follow four principles:

1. All rewards are available to all playstyles, not necessarily at the same speed.
2. The social structure is inclusive and encourages collaboration and teamwork across a world/shard/server
3. All content is available to all players. There are multiple types of content (likely involving multiple axes of advancement) and each player chooses which content they wish to participate in.
4. The people who control the game, individually and collectively, do not favor one playstyle over another. There are no second class citizens, just players who prefer (or are good at) doing different things when they log on.

Within these principles, there is no problem creating content which will allow a large guild, or more precisely the subset of the large guild who want to and are available to participate at a given moment, to do something together. That’s a feature even WoW doesn’t offer (40 people exactly, no more, no less, is not an inclusive design). The GW2 engine uniquely would allow a special zone to be spawned for a private event. The overall GW2 game design more likely would put the event in the open world.

The issue arises not from the existence of this kind of event, and not even from the hoops one jumps through to launch the event. It arises because the event has rewards which are not accessible except by launching this event, the event practically can only be launched by a large guild, and therefore the rewards are accessible only to (probably some subset of) members of large guilds. So there’s exclusion based on each of points 1, 2, and 3 above.

The design of this feature only needed to be tweaked to be non exclusionary (or maybe even inclusive).

Not really because you are still essentially screwing over many guilds. So many other people who have responded notice the direct threat with this patch. Small guilds will not be able to do any of this content period -

Guild Missions will require large amounts of Influence
Large amount of players online at all times

The small guilds will never raise up enough influence, and they will not have enough players online/active to participate in the activities. This is gating many players, forcing them to join different guilds if they want to do these quests, and because of the rewards they will abandon the small/medium sized guilds practically instantly.

To be very blunt here, this up and coming patch is a dagger in the backs of many players – and needs to be stopped.

Vorch.2985:

You want content that can be done by a guild of 5 people or less?

Please see the rest of PvE.

That is a very good point Vorch… the whole rest of the PvE. So what we should be suggesting in this thread is that larger guilds disband and fracture into smaller guilds… rather than suggesting small guilds disband to be absorbed by larger ones.

Or since there is no content for big guilds… they can just rep a small guild when they want to do small guild content.

After all… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

This way the devs can concentrate on the same sorts of content they have already been producing… only make it more interesting and complex with greater depth… instead of scaling things up to create content that the typical in-game group cannot complete.

/satire

This is ascended gear all over again. I am seriously disappointed in this.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Not really because you are still essentially screwing over many guilds. So many other people who have responded notice the direct threat with this patch. Small guilds will not be able to do any of this content period -

Guild Missions will require large amounts of Influence
Large amount of players online at all times

The small guilds will never raise up enough influence, and they will not have enough players online/active to participate in the activities. This is gating many players, forcing them to join different guilds if they want to do these quests, and because of the rewards they will abandon the small/medium sized guilds practically instantly.

To be very blunt here, this up and coming patch is a dagger in the backs of many players – and needs to be stopped.

Daggers in the back? Dramatic much?

This game is designed for 5 man teams. Everything in the whole game. The complaint from a lot of larger guilds was that we didn’t have anything for US to do, except WvW. If you’re a PVe’er and in a larger guild, you have to break up into many smaller guilds. If you have 12 guys who want to hang out and play with their guildies, it’s hard. Because dungeons only have 5 guys. Fractals only 5. Parties in Orr only 5.

They’re finally introducing something to give larger guilds something to do. The way the game has been so far has been a problem for our guild because people always have to be excluded from stuff.

So if you have a small guild and everything else is designed for you, what’s there really to complain about? That Anet wants to include larger guilds in the game too?

The reaction to this news from many of the smaller guilds is pretty selfish. The entire game has been made for guys like you (again with the exception of WvW). Why shouldn’t larger guilds have a reason to exist?

Jski.6180:

bluewanders.5297:

Sowin.5187:

Toxyn.9608:

The whole small guild vs large guild argument isn’t the point, though for some reason a lot of people are focusing on it.

Many people (rightfully) expected small guilds to have easy access to the introductory missions, average guilds would have easier access to intermediate missions, and the mega-guilds would have easier access to the high-end missions.

This could have been done by starting the research at say Level 2-3 of something, then the next step up in difficulty would require Level 4 of something, and finally the massive missions would require Level 5 of something. To gate everything behind a level 5 research is what people have an issue with, especially the WvW track. This hurts small guilds which have not invested in AoW as well as future guilds that will be starting fresh.

Well said Toxyn.

I agree entirely.

Except… I will express one cautionary statement. We don’t know that everything will be gated behind a tier 5 upgrade… only that the first content available is gated as such… and that guilds with these upgrades already completed, or nearly completed in this tier will have access to the new reward system for a good amount of time before the rest can catch up.

And we can also extrapolate based on this and his statements that it will take literally months to unlock the 5 types of guild missions… also assuming costs are tuned for large guilds only due to being in a tier 5 wvw tree… that smaller guilds might take a year or more to do the same.

That is unless we want to blow a Legendary worth of gold to get there…

Tell me again what incentive any player has to belong to a guild that isn’t 50 concurrent players or more?

Most big guilds will have more things maxed out as is so more then like you will find a guild on your server that doing these runs on day one. Newer guild and small ish guild will need to put in the work that big guilds who been arone for some time have already done. How fair would it be to these larger guild that have been here for a long time and not been the types that just come and goes as they please?

Side note for all the complains that are coming out will any one here say thank you if it works out? Just to come to the forms and only complain about things and not to say “i was wrong” seems a bit well wrong.

If this had been structured properly, big guilds would have been rewarded by being able to quickly unlock further content, while small guilds would have at least had something to work on while they go about the long process of unlocking everything else. The way it’s set up now, small guilds will see nothing new, potentially for months, because it’s all gated DEEPLY behind a PvP guild track.

That’s stupid design. Stupid.

Hopefully this isn’t actually how it has been designed and the truth was lost in translation somewhere along the way. Punishing small guilds and ramrodding them into larger ones because it’s the only way to see any guild-centered content, doesn’t do anyone any favours.

The phrase ‘popular demand’ seems to apply here. Since everything I feel has already been said, just count me with the people who think this is too much to ask of new content. I was looking forward to this update, I have a very small but close guild. I thought the whole point of these missions was to spend time with close friends, you’ve just punched that down.

bluewanders.5297:

Vorch.2985:

You want content that can be done by a guild of 5 people or less?

Please see the rest of PvE.

That is a very good point Vorch… the whole rest of the PvE. So what we should be suggesting in this thread is that larger guilds disband and fracture into smaller guilds… rather than suggesting small guilds disband to be absorbed by larger ones.

Or since there is no content for big guilds… they can just rep a small guild when they want to do small guild content.

After all… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

This way the devs can concentrate on the same sorts of content they have already been producing… only make it more interesting and complex with greater depth… instead of scaling things up to create content that the typical in-game group cannot complete.

/satire

You don’t need to disband to join larger guilds…just represent during the guild missions.

However, that would kill the guild pride that the small group has, I guess.

There are plenty of solutions. What it appears small guilds want are solutions that:

• Do not require them to play with any other people/guild outside their group
• Do not require them to change their current playstyle
• Do not require them to use influence on anything they haven’t used influence on already
• Cause them not to be able to participate in content on DAY ONE.

That, I just don’t understand. That is, I know the reasons why small guilds are upset, but those reasons just don’t seem to be very upsetting.

Maybe a good compromise is to have two tracks, both with the same content access. So one would be more orientated towards a PvE guild while the other track is oriented towards a WvW guild?

That way, a guild can pick between either PvE and PvP (WvW) things and have access to the same content.

Either way… if your small guild isn’t willing to represent with guild missions, then that’s time you start asking yourself how loyal your guildmates are. I can see guild missions strengthening already tightly bonded small guilds while destroying the small guilds without tight bonds.

The entire patch is a mess, everything is being rushed and every potential outcome is not being considered carefully. Arenanet should very well know that the community has a whole is very fractured, especially since Lost Shores and the community cannot take many more bombshells.

With the whole launch of Fractals and Ascended items, every player no matter what still had the same chances, the same access to the content as the next person. However, in the next patch – you don’t have access to the same content

What should have been down is the players of any guild should be able to participate and receive the same rewards. The content should have been created so everyone could work together, or solo if they wanted too.

Guild Bounties should have been Art of War 1, and each rank should have unlocked a progressively harder encounter, so the larger guilds could clear this content faster and more efficiently than a small guild could – but the outcome would have been the same – everyones happy – But it wasn’t created in this way, it has been created with a hardcore and super large guild in mind. I personally blame all the players who wanted raids etc for this mess.

I personally think if this PvP art of war tier 5 cannot be changed in time give all guild 36000 influence and negate the waiting period so it can be instantly done…

If not i hate to think what will happen to the populations again..

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The problem is, there isn’t that many players to go-around anymore. And then, most players will just end up leaving the small guilds or these guilds who cannot do these missions and join the larger ones – effectively killing every small guild in the game.

For some people that think this would be a good thing (there seems to be a number of thse in this thread) i’d like to remind that this kind of behaviour will teach players something. The lesson would be “forget about guild loyalty, it doesn’t matter”. It will not strengthen the community bonds, it will shatter them. Guild tag will not be worn with pride, but for shinies.
I’d personal;y hate to be in a guild with members who are there not because they like to play with each other and cooperate well, but because this was the place that offered better perks. What’s more, if i were to join such bigger guild, i know i wouldn’t feel any kinship with other members whatsoever. It wouldn’t feel like my guild at all.

Pretty much, and that is what will be the driving force that will kill many small and casually focused guilds on the 26th.

Heijincks.9267:

Nurse.1085:

Distaste.4801:

The only people being handed anything on a silver platter are the big guilds, IE YOU. The small guilds have to work far harder to gain influence for upgrades. What should have been done is influence costs scaling based on the number of players in the guild. That way the big and small guilds would have to put in the same amount of effort.

BAM!11!!1!!!
That’s the sound the Hammer made when you hit the nail on the head.

On that note, I’m in 2 Guilds. A small 10 man Guild and a Guild with 60+ players on. The 10 man has about 5k influence after saving (for the past few days), the 60+ player guild has OVER 40K.

It’s obviously more efficient to zerg in every aspect of this game. Now guilds.

I’ll play Devil’s Advocate.

Why should big guilds compromise for small guilds? People who form bigger guilds have put more effort into making their guilds. Why should their reward be the same as someone who poured less effort into their guild?

If you want to make things “fair”, then the cumulative work for both sized guilds should be the same. Otherwise, it just sounds like small guilds just want to be entitled to everything.

Also, you are able to represent more than one guild at once. Thus I don’t see small guilds “dying” because of this. If you have a small guild with your friends, should they leave your guild for the sake of the game, they aren’t really friends to begin with.

Because it’s badly designed! If it was based on % then there would be no drama. (Got 100 members? You need 20 players. Got 10? You need a group! /simples!).

No one cares that it’s a teir 5 unlock, they care that they won’t have enough players, have to spam channels (and get hurled abuse!), while others get upset that they can’t get it done and leave for bigger, greener pastures.

The people crying that the little guys “want it all and now!” are the one’s that have it all now and they do not care as long as they are alright!

So much for the “bringing community closer!”, yeah, it’s so close that it’s slapping each other!

cesmode.4257:

Oreoz.2573:

bluewanders.5297:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

I hate to personally say it, but this might be the time to start a petition to attempt to block this patch.

No… you don’t petition to block new content from dropping. I don’t want big guilds to be excluded from the content too just because small guilds have been… the answer is make our position known, and understood, be willing to discuss it at length until it is… and then act like adults once the “final” decision has been made and deal with it’s consequences on an adult level.

We aren’t 5 year olds… we can certainly deal with an unfavorable turn of events without trying to screw over everyone else for whom it is favorable. At the same time… when decisions have been made, the decision makers need to be given feedback and alerted to dissident opinions… that is the very basis and strength of freedom of speech. “Good” decision makers take this feedback into consideration in the future and incorporate it into more accurate decision making models… even if their decisions continue to press disfavor on a portion of the population affected by them… not all decisions can be favorable to everyone… but everyone should be heard and acknowledged… and their feedback should have weight.

I agree with you completely.

And then i remember back when Anet said they didn’t want to make a grindy game.

Truthfully, they haven’t. It’s all optional.

So people quit playing because they don’t want to grind.

Ironic.

Jeez for the last time everything in this game is as optional as everytng in any game. Yet we do it because what else is there to do. The argument that its all optional is mute. Raiding is optional in wow but we do it because theres nothing else to do. Much like missionswillbe done here.

Literally everything you do in this game is a grind. Guild missions are going to be a grind for smaller guids. Its optional but again so is raiding in wow yet we did all of that…so we are going to do guild missns and grind them out…in a game where this is no grInd

I think you missed my sarcasm there…..

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Not really because you are still essentially screwing over many guilds. So many other people who have responded notice the direct threat with this patch. Small guilds will not be able to do any of this content period -

Guild Missions will require large amounts of Influence
Large amount of players online at all times

The small guilds will never raise up enough influence, and they will not have enough players online/active to participate in the activities. This is gating many players, forcing them to join different guilds if they want to do these quests, and because of the rewards they will abandon the small/medium sized guilds practically instantly.

To be very blunt here, this up and coming patch is a dagger in the backs of many players – and needs to be stopped.

well just to keep things real, small guilds can access this content.

But it will take them a very very very long time…..long enough that they’ll quit or join another guild before they even get close.

So the result is the same i guess. lol

I don’t even know why they decided to make these guild missions researchable i the first place.

Oh wait…..

Because they need players to keep playing that totally not grindy game that they made.

facepalm

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The entire patch is a mess, everything is being rushed and every potential outcome is not being considered carefully. Arenanet should very well know that the community has a whole is very fractured, especially since Lost Shores and the community cannot take many more bombshells.

With the whole launch of Fractals and Ascended items, every player no matter what still had the same chances, the same access to the content as the next person. However, in the next patch – you don’t have access to the same content

What should have been down is the players of any guild should be able to participate and receive the same rewards. The content should have been created so everyone could work together, or solo if they wanted too.

Guild Bounties should have been Art of War 1, and each rank should have unlocked a progressively harder encounter, so the larger guilds could clear this content faster and more efficiently than a small guild could – but the outcome would have been the same – everyones happy – But it wasn’t created in this way, it has been created with a hardcore and super large guild in mind. I personally blame all the players who wanted raids etc for this mess.

I completely agree. These guild missions should’ve been added in with the idea of helping to break up the monotony while smaller or larger guilds build up their influence for other ventures. The rewards don’t even have to be same. They should scale based on the size of the guild or something.

These missions were supposed to give purpose to guilds in-game but it just kittens over the smaller ones.

“Oh great. We’re totally not a PvP guild but we need to do nothing but grind PvP so we can have fun in PvE. Welp, see ya guys later. Gonna go find a larger guild.”

I seriously doubt Arenanet even thinks about these things anymore.

xLiveLucidx.5071:

I don’t get why this thread was posted only a week away from the release after you’ve already built the content and have made public announcements about it. Why not present an idea to the community before you build it? This way the community will play a larger role in the creative process and thus it will be generally more satisfied with the content. You can make it clear that all ideas are theory only until decided on by development teams so expectations and demands don’t get overwhelming. As it is now, it feels like anything I could suggest to change or add would be in vain.

Cause if they did that you would try to demand it be released the next week when it would actually be months before you would see that content. Other companies have tried what you suggested and every single one of them do not do it anymore cause of people demanding it.

Heijincks.9267:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Not really because you are still essentially screwing over many guilds. So many other people who have responded notice the direct threat with this patch. Small guilds will not be able to do any of this content period -

Guild Missions will require large amounts of Influence
Large amount of players online at all times

The small guilds will never raise up enough influence, and they will not have enough players online/active to participate in the activities. This is gating many players, forcing them to join different guilds if they want to do these quests, and because of the rewards they will abandon the small/medium sized guilds practically instantly.

To be very blunt here, this up and coming patch is a dagger in the backs of many players – and needs to be stopped.

Let’s see. 36500 influence is needed to get Art of War 5.

The conversion between gold and influence is exactly 20c/influence.

So in other words, to get 36,500 influence, it costs exactly 730,000 coppers which is 73 gold.

Let’s assume we have here a very small guild. 5 active members.

If each pays their equivalent share of work, that would be ~15g per person. That’s not a lot. 3 CoF path 1 runs already generates ~2 gold/person and only takes half an hour.

Personally, I’d pay that much for the content I will receive. In game speaking of course.

yeah I really can’t justify paying 15 of my hard earned gold to play a mission that’s probably gonna take 10 minutes and, given the sorry state of rewards in this game, will compensate you little to nothing at all.

Cheaper waypoint costs means nothing to the person who realizes a simple dungeon takes care of any and all WP costs for that day, and then some.

So 73 gold? Each guild participant best get an ascended piece of their choosing then. No? Then I’ll hold on to my money thanks.

Just to clarify why small guild members are complaining.

It’s a matter of time, not entitlement.

There isn’t a member of any guild here who isn’t willing to put forth a bit of work to unlock something.

The investment of time has to be something reasonable though. Small PvE guilds probably won’t ever see bounties because they don’t like PvP. Why should my PvE guild spend all our influence on a PvP track so at the very end of it all, we can have fun in……PvE?

Does that really make sense to you? Not me.

But lets say they really wanted to do bounties. That means no influence can be spent on anything other than that track. Soooo….no banners. No MF boosts. No speed boons. Etc.

Most won’t do that.

The ones that will try, will lose interest and quit long before their patience holds out long enough to build up the influence. And then what?

They move to a large guild.

The game is slowly evolving.

It used to be that you could play the way you want.

Now it’s becoming so that you have to play and spend and grind in a very specific fashion in order to get anything of worth.

Not a big deal. All end-game MMO content is like that.

Of course other MMOs actually reward you with something tangible for your efforts.

You can chalk that up to another reason why small guilds probably won’t invest in guild missions.

If one were to assume the rewards for doing them are as crappy as the rewards for doing anything else in this game.

Cheaper WP costs? Oh boy!

Heijincks.9267:

Oreoz.2573:

Heijincks.9267:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Not really because you are still essentially screwing over many guilds. So many other people who have responded notice the direct threat with this patch. Small guilds will not be able to do any of this content period -

Guild Missions will require large amounts of Influence
Large amount of players online at all times

The small guilds will never raise up enough influence, and they will not have enough players online/active to participate in the activities. This is gating many players, forcing them to join different guilds if they want to do these quests, and because of the rewards they will abandon the small/medium sized guilds practically instantly.

To be very blunt here, this up and coming patch is a dagger in the backs of many players – and needs to be stopped.

Let’s see. 36500 influence is needed to get Art of War 5.

The conversion between gold and influence is exactly 20c/influence.

So in other words, to get 36,500 influence, it costs exactly 730,000 coppers which is 73 gold.

Let’s assume we have here a very small guild. 5 active members.

If each pays their equivalent share of work, that would be ~15g per person. That’s not a lot. 3 CoF path 1 runs already generates ~2 gold/person and only takes half an hour.

Personally, I’d pay that much for the content I will receive. In game speaking of course.

yeah I really can’t justify paying 15 of my hard earned gold to play a mission that’s probably gonna take 10 minutes and, given the sorry state of rewards in this game, will compensate you little to nothing at all.

Cheaper waypoint costs means nothing to the person who realizes a simple dungeon takes care of any and all WP costs for that day, and then some.

So 73 gold? Each guild participant best get an ascended piece of their choosing then. No? Then I’ll hold on to my money thanks.

To get the tree started, 15g is a pretty good investment, so your opinion is as worthless as mine. However, if 15g isn’t spent on a guild expansion, it’d be spent on personal expansion (eg. new inventory space), or worse, wasted on items to be flushed down the Mystic Toilet.

Oh, and it’s permanent content, not 15g/run content. Personally, I’d put my money on things for keep. On the big scope of things, I’d say it’s a pretty kitten good investment.

It’s not to anyone that doesn’t want to spend all their influence to build up a PvP tree to play PvE.

As enjoyable as the bounties may be, I forsee the rewards being hardly worth the effort. Better to invest influence in a track that will actually benefit you as a player and a guild instead of wasting 36k+ on, lets face it, a dynamic event.

Heijincks.9267:

Oreoz.2573:

Heijincks.9267:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Not really because you are still essentially screwing over many guilds. So many other people who have responded notice the direct threat with this patch. Small guilds will not be able to do any of this content period -

Guild Missions will require large amounts of Influence
Large amount of players online at all times

The small guilds will never raise up enough influence, and they will not have enough players online/active to participate in the activities. This is gating many players, forcing them to join different guilds if they want to do these quests, and because of the rewards they will abandon the small/medium sized guilds practically instantly.

To be very blunt here, this up and coming patch is a dagger in the backs of many players – and needs to be stopped.

Let’s see. 36500 influence is needed to get Art of War 5.

The conversion between gold and influence is exactly 20c/influence.

So in other words, to get 36,500 influence, it costs exactly 730,000 coppers which is 73 gold.

Let’s assume we have here a very small guild. 5 active members.

If each pays their equivalent share of work, that would be ~15g per person. That’s not a lot. 3 CoF path 1 runs already generates ~2 gold/person and only takes half an hour.

Personally, I’d pay that much for the content I will receive. In game speaking of course.

yeah I really can’t justify paying 15 of my hard earned gold to play a mission that’s probably gonna take 10 minutes and, given the sorry state of rewards in this game, will compensate you little to nothing at all.

Cheaper waypoint costs means nothing to the person who realizes a simple dungeon takes care of any and all WP costs for that day, and then some.

So 73 gold? Each guild participant best get an ascended piece of their choosing then. No? Then I’ll hold on to my money thanks.

To get the tree started, 15g is a pretty good investment, so your opinion is as worthless as mine. However, if 15g isn’t spent on a guild expansion, it’d be spent on personal expansion (eg. new inventory space), or worse, wasted on items to be flushed down the Mystic Toilet.

Oh, and it’s permanent content, not 15g/run content. Personally, I’d put my money on things for keep. On the big scope of things, I’d say it’s a pretty kitten good investment.

If I had 15g I’d take a screenshot & frame it! The most I’ve had on me after training & waypoint hopping is 6g. Thats over x2 80s and 5 other alts, the lowest of which is level 50.
The loot drops suck (but thats another thread/post/story), dungeons are hatful “die & runs!”, so making cash is abit nasty atm.
And no I can’t afford to buy gems for gold, I’m married! = no cash!