Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

Here is an idea.

Since everyone says that the whole rest of the game is for small guilds and blah blah blah… why don’t they just add the currencies into the rest of the game? Then when a guild group with a membership of 50 or less completes a dungeon, meta event, de, or jumping puzzle together… they get the same rewards that these uber awesome and ultra important mega guilds get for all the content they do together that is designed for them.

Maybe that isn’t exclusive enough… maybe it should only work for guild groups completing “all the rest of the game” together with a membership of 20 or less.

Earlier, I made the suggestion that full guild groups doing the meta-events or dungeons could earn Merits/Commendations.

That isn’t exclusive enough. If there is content that only big guilds can do and be rewarded for… then they need to be excluded from things that small guilds can do and be rewarded for. Otherwise it would be terribly terribly abused… big guilds would do their big guild only content and receive the rewards… then run around raking in tons of currency doing all the “small guild” stuff too…

Actually… the multi-guild system could be abused that way… so to make it more exclusive we would need to lock people out of earning the personal currency with more than one guild. Either remove the ability to belong to more than one guild, or create a “home guild” option that forces you to name your “home guild” where you would only receive the personal currency from doing content with them. Of course make it fair… they can change their home guild… but give it a 30 day cooldown so that they can’t abuse the system.

bluewanders.5297:

That isn’t exclusive enough. If there is content that only big guilds can do and be rewarded for… then they need to be excluded from things that small guilds can do and be rewarded for. Otherwise it would be terribly terribly abused… big guilds would do their big guild only content and receive the rewards… then run around raking in tons of currency doing all the “small guild” stuff too…

I’m compelled to ask two questions:

- What stops a large guild from having smaller groups of people do small-guild content? They always could before, there’s practically no way of telling.

- Why does it seem to have a burning need to punish a guild for getting too large? From the ire being heaped at them simply for being large, isn’t there social punishment enough?

We should be figuring out ways of inclusion and not new ways to throw up fences, here . . .

I wonder why people are complaining so much…
This is meant to be in the long term.

My guild is only 46 members but our login base and activity are extremely high. Login base in weekdays is usually 50 – 66%, while weekends we have reached at times 80 – 90%+ throughout the 24 hour period with times where half of us are logged in during things together.

We had AoW 5 already because we enjoyed WvW, though we are not a pure WvW guild.

In fact when the guild mission came in, we began unlocking it without having to purchase Influence. We had 35K. I then spent 10G on 5K influence to get Econ 4.

The thing is that even if you unlock something, the other missions require Merit Points to be unlocked as well as influence. Big or Small, guilds have a max merit they can earn weekly per mission making everyone go through this 1 – 2 week process to be able to unlock and play them.

The missions are intended for the long term.

Five dedicated players who want the mission running CoF on two paths, can actually buy 5,000 influence per day for the guild if they wanted. Five parties of this per day is 25K influence, all from spending a hour of playing…

I believe that rather than think about your total member count, you should think more about Quality over Quantity. I think its the fact you might have 50 – 100 members who never login and your core membership really is around 10 – 20.

I actually think this is good for small guilds because it will prove intelligence.

Smaller Guilds will either try to become medium sized guilds throwing members inside left and right. Larger Guilds will get bigger.

The intelligent think of Quality over Quantity and that each player is actually happier. This is the same trend as some smaller WvW guilds of 50 players where 30 – 40 of them are active are able to annihilate and show skill beyond the 400 player guilds that field the same number of players on the field.

This does not stain or bother me so much, I know my members will get them all unlocked with time and at the end of it all, I know and understand that as long as we work with quality over quantity it will help out more.

My goal is to have around 50 – 75 members where at least 66 – 75% of them are active throughout the week, but most importantly are active. I am happy so far with what we have accomplished and these GUILD MISSIONS proved that those who work together make it, while numbers alone fail.

As the guild leader of a very small guild (15 members and about 3 or so consistently active daily) I feel really shafted by the guild missions and fear that my group of friends is now doomed to break up and be lured to large established guilds.

We have the first two of the guild bank slots unlocked and almost every category of influence to level 3 with almost 6k influence unspent. It is going to take forever for us just to get to level 4 and the 30k and needing to be rank 5 / 6 …. yeah it is the cavern of impossibility scale.

We were never meant to be a big guild, just some friends from Lotro, work and family members to casually enjoy as much of the game as we could. I was fine with not having enough people to do a lot of the missions, that is why you can get help from everyone else on the server. Not being able to even get to the point of being able to unlock is heart breakingly depressing. We have been trying to strategize recruitment ideas but the fear is that when people get in and see how small we are and how far to being able to do the missions, they will just leave instead of sticking around and helping us reach that milestone.

Also, it was stated on Gamebreaker.tv’s Guild Cast show that if you help do a guild mission but your guild is not on that mission the only rewards you get are the normal Dynamic Event rewards ……. really?? That makes my interest in being a good helping community member and helping others do the content (other than seeing what it is like) reach the high number of ZERO. I mean I dont expect a precursor to drop for me, but a little bit of xp, karma and silver isn’t cutting it. I mean some of those jumping puzzles are intense from listening to the show and dynamic event rewards are not enough incentive to help someone else out.

I think the complaints are because it was not adequately stated it was a long term thing . . . if it was, if they had said “we’d like to see the majority of guilds reaching this in a couple months” or “it’ll take some time to reach all the Mission types” then people would have known what to expect.

In hindsight;

If the Guild Missions had been implemented from the game’s inception, I expect that the current landscape would be much different.

Some made choices early on to start their own small guilds without knowing the long term implications regarding the importance of influence and quantity of members.

Server choice may have been different because guild choice may have been different.

Free server transfers would probably have been utilized more to finalize server/guild choice.

As a small guild leader I feel like I have wasted the last six months of playing. It does kind of take the wind out of your sails.

I know this doesn’t contribute to the effort of finding a solution to the conundrum of “What do we do now with what we have to work with?”

Even though I don’t agree with a lot of Tobias’s responses to my posts, he is trying to organize and formulate potential solutions instead of just complaining.

As many have mentioned here, some tools to assist in alliances and communications would be beneficial in assisting small guilds to assimilate if they choose to do so.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility to allow small guilds to merge and salvage their influence investment?

After 29 pages of this thread, I’m compelled to ask why a few small guilds per server, such as my guild with about 8-10 actively playing members, don’t seek out other small family type guilds, compare influence and number unlocks and discuss merging with the most influential? It wouldn’t be a “large guild” mentality so much as one small family helping another so both or more of them reach the same common goal in the end. And the chances are astronomical that neither guild would ask for payment, application, interview, or any other ridiculous process to join. Not to mention, we’d all have someone to run regular content with as well. We small guilds are all in the same situation. Why not help one another instead of buck the new content or continue to rehash the same points over another 29 pages and hope by some miracle that Anet will respond or even READ this entire thread? We all want to play the new content at some point, I’m sure. So, we can either sit here and reiterate our points over and over again, subject ourselves to abuse of all types from people who don’t understand what we’re trying to express…OR, we can band together and help each other. Isn’t that what “community” is all about?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

That isn’t exclusive enough. If there is content that only big guilds can do and be rewarded for… then they need to be excluded from things that small guilds can do and be rewarded for. Otherwise it would be terribly terribly abused… big guilds would do their big guild only content and receive the rewards… then run around raking in tons of currency doing all the “small guild” stuff too…

I’m compelled to ask two questions:

- What stops a large guild from having smaller groups of people do small-guild content? They always could before, there’s practically no way of telling.

- Why does it seem to have a burning need to punish a guild for getting too large? From the ire being heaped at them simply for being large, isn’t there social punishment enough?

We should be figuring out ways of inclusion and not new ways to throw up fences, here . . .

You obviously missed my sarcasm font.

I’ll point you back to the first dozen or so pages of this discussion and the original thread that was deleted. I’ve been in this debate and aware of the issues from the very beginning. Welcome to the party.

The idea of satire is to use rhetoric and hyperbole to point out flaws in the subject of your attentions. When done right… your satire can seem to be a serious attempt at discussion, that causes others to point out all the places you went wrong (thereby using them as rhetorical tools to reinforce the points you wished to make)… without falling into the trap of sounding aggressive, angry, or ridiculous.

The point I want to make is pretty much how you responded. There should be no burning need to punish (or even separate) guilds by size or playstyle. Rewards can be higher in quantity… but should never be better in quality. Content for large guilds should always have a small guild equivalent.

On the subject of rewards having higher quantity… I would even caution against that… this is supposed to be content for large guilds to do together… not a function of farming more or better rewards. Don’t give anyone an unfair advantage. The advantage of a large guild should be in having the opportunity to enjoy large scale content and large scale group dynamics… not earn rewards that no one else can earn, or see content “faster” or “before” anyone else can.

bluewanders.5297:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

That isn’t exclusive enough. If there is content that only big guilds can do and be rewarded for… then they need to be excluded from things that small guilds can do and be rewarded for. Otherwise it would be terribly terribly abused… big guilds would do their big guild only content and receive the rewards… then run around raking in tons of currency doing all the “small guild” stuff too…

I’m compelled to ask two questions:

- What stops a large guild from having smaller groups of people do small-guild content? They always could before, there’s practically no way of telling.

- Why does it seem to have a burning need to punish a guild for getting too large? From the ire being heaped at them simply for being large, isn’t there social punishment enough?

We should be figuring out ways of inclusion and not new ways to throw up fences, here . . .

You obviously missed my sarcasm font.

I’ll point you back to the first dozen or so pages of this discussion and the original thread that was deleted. I’ve been in this debate and aware of the issues from the very beginning. Welcome to the party.

The idea of satire is to use rhetoric and hyperbole to point out flaws in the subject of your attentions. When done right… your satire can seem to be a serious attempt at discussion, that causes others to point out all the places you went wrong (thereby using them as rhetorical tools to reinforce the points you wished to make)… without falling into the trap of sounding aggressive, angry, or ridiculous.

The point I want to make is pretty much how you responded. There should be no burning need to punish (or even separate) guilds by size or playstyle. Rewards can be higher in quantity… but should never be better in quality. Content for large guilds should always have a small guild equivalent.

On the subject of rewards having higher quantity… I would even caution against that… this is supposed to be content for large guilds to do together… not a function of farming more or better rewards. Don’t give anyone an unfair advantage. The advantage of a large guild should be in having the opportunity to enjoy large scale content and large scale group dynamics… not earn rewards that no one else can earn, or see content “faster” or “before” anyone else can.

Yeah, I missed your sarcasm font. I have this thing in Chrome and Safari which automatically converts it to Arial. I should really turn that off.

I’ve also been in this before the content launched, but mostly the voice going: “But it’s not out yet, can we wait until it hits and we see what it exactly is before we go to the rooftops?” And the hopeful “maybe it won’t be so bad”.

It’s pretty bad if you look at it from “getting to it immediately”, though I can attribute that to the devs missing the range on “small guilds” and what Influence they should have. They overestimated for the initial unlock cost. Of course, if you take it as a “long term goal” then it’s much less onerous . . . though still, in some cases, over-costed due to that misconception of “small guild” to mean able to field 10-15 people.

Sowin.5187:

In hindsight;

If the Guild Missions had been implemented from the game’s inception, I expect that the current landscape would be much different.

Some made choices early on to start their own small guilds without knowing the long term implications regarding the importance of influence and quantity of members.

Server choice may have been different because guild choice may have been different.

Free server transfers would probably have been utilized more to finalize server/guild choice.

As a small guild leader I feel like I have wasted the last six months of playing. It does kind of take the wind out of your sails.

I know this doesn’t contribute to the effort of finding a solution to the conundrum of “What do we do now with what we have to work with?”

Even though I don’t agree with a lot of Tobias’s responses to my posts, he is trying to organize and formulate potential solutions instead of just complaining.

As many have mentioned here, some tools to assist in alliances and communications would be beneficial in assisting small guilds to assimilate if they choose to do so.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility to allow small guilds to merge and salvage their influence investment?

I have thought about looking into other guilds to join, since you are supposed to be able to be in multiple guilds and just have my guild the New Orrian Nobles be a RP side guild just for doing roleplay events and attempt to grow it that way with the option to switch back to a full time guild if the member list grows enough to warrant it.

My concern is that as guild leader I dont see a button on the roster to un-represent, only Step Down. I dont want to give up my leadership spot and if the other members leaves and I Step Down to join another guild does the Nobles get deleted? I would hate to have all that time and influence spent to get our banks and other stuff unlocked be wasted on joining another guild that might end up not being a guild I enjoy playing with.

As a member of a tiny guild (3-4 active members out of 10-12 total), I have had a talk with my guildleader, and we decided to try an experiment.

We are going to upgrade the guild in order to unlock guild bounties, spending gold if necessary to acquire the needed Influence. Once Guild Bounties are unlocked, we will start Bounty Missions on a regular basis, and we will post announcements on our game server that anyone who wants to get the rewards can become members of our guild for the duration of the bounty, for a small fee (perhaps 1 silver). At the end of the mission, all temporary members will be removed from the guild.

The participation fee is intended to earn back (over time) our investment in buying the influence in the first place. In return, we would be providing a service to the players on our server who would otherwise have no access to guild missions, giving them a chance to experience this content, and to acquire Guild Commendations and other rewards.

Any opinions on whether you believe this experiment could work?

Though I think the costs to unlock guild missions is, imo, too steep for small guilds, I am more concerned with our ability to actually complete these missions once activated. The unlocks we can get eventually, but if we can never actually finish them, due to not having enough members, we will just be wasting influence and getting nowhere. Also, there is little incentive for people to help small guilds complete their missions other than what they can get from regular events. So I am a little worried that spending the influence to unlock them will be a complete waste of time and effort.

I may be worrying over nothing and we may well get assistance from other non-guildies in the map. I hope so, as it is a good tool for providing activities for guild members. One thing is for sure though, my guild will not be unlocking our own missions for a long time (unless we can get more members ).

On a side note, I find it odd that Anet has only created this content with large/hardcore groups in mind, when their game is supposed to cater to the casual players just as much. Why can we not have smaller events to unlock (that reward less) for guilds with fewer members? Why only add large scale, extremely costly and difficult, events? I hope more content, that is more accessable to small guilds, is added as well.

Meithar.7051:

My concern is that as guild leader I dont see a button on the roster to un-represent, only Step Down. I dont want to give up my leadership spot and if the other members leaves and I Step Down to join another guild does the Nobles get deleted? I would hate to have all that time and influence spent to get our banks and other stuff unlocked be wasted on joining another guild that might end up not being a guild I enjoy playing with.

Once you join another guild and you go to the guild UI [G] on the left hand side of the UI there will be a list of guilds you are currently a member of. Click on one of them and at the bottom of the roster there will be a "represent " option you may click. This allows you to represent another guild w/o changing/effecting your role in other currently joined guilds. You can also be leader of multiple guilds.

PS…Don’t use the “stand down” option.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

As a member of a tiny guild (3-4 active members out of 10-12 total), I have had a talk with my guildleader, and we decided to try an experiment.

We are going to upgrade the guild in order to unlock guild bounties, spending gold if necessary to acquire the needed Influence. Once Guild Bounties are unlocked, we will start Bounty Missions on a regular basis, and we will post announcements on our game server that anyone who wants to get the rewards can become members of our guild for the duration of the bounty, for a small fee (perhaps 1 silver). At the end of the mission, all temporary members will be removed from the guild.

The participation fee is intended to earn back (over time) our investment in buying the influence in the first place. In return, we would be providing a service to the players on our server who would otherwise have no access to guild missions, giving them a chance to experience this content, and to acquire Guild Commendations and other rewards.

Any opinions on whether you believe this experiment could work?

It could work, but you’re going to get flak for charging.

Flamenco.3894:

How about an alliance system, wouldn’t that solve the problem a bit?

You still have to have one of the guilds unlock the content. And the potential for abuse can really grow here. The leader guild could gather influence from the other guilds and then make an excuse to kick them. Worse case scenario here. But possible.

Leohan.1096:

People want solutions instead of all this QQ’s? Ok fine here’s one, coach sign me up, I am ready for the big game, ready to work in game development at any time.

Here’s the way I think it should have been done and still can be done. Put the bounties in the different tiers create new unlock bounty tiers that each divide the current 30,000 influence, so each bounty tier unlock is 10,000 influence. This way at least the middle to small guilds can do one guild mission in the next month.

Here’s the list and what it would look like in Art of War.

Research Art of War Level 1
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 1
500  Influence
-
16 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 2
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 2
1000  Influence
1 day

---

 Research Art of War Level 3
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 3
5000  Influence
3 days

Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 1
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

Guild Bounty Tier 1
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild. Guild members will have to track down and defeat each of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 4
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 4
10000  Influence
4 days

 Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 2
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

 Guild Bounty Tier 2
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild with one additional target. Guild members will have to track down and defeat all three of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 5
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 5
20000  Influence
1 week

 Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 3
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

 Guild Bounty Tier 3
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild with four additional targets. Guild members will have to track down and defeat all six of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

Research Art of War Level 6
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 6
30000 Influence
10 days

^^ This, in combination with a proper Alliance system that allows small guilds to participate together on missions while earning influence for their respective guilds. This.
And well done, Leohan.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yeah, I missed your sarcasm font. I have this thing in Chrome and Safari which automatically converts it to Arial. I should really turn that off.

I’ve also been in this before the content launched, but mostly the voice going: “But it’s not out yet, can we wait until it hits and we see what it exactly is before we go to the rooftops?” And the hopeful “maybe it won’t be so bad”.

It’s pretty bad if you look at it from “getting to it immediately”, though I can attribute that to the devs missing the range on “small guilds” and what Influence they should have. They overestimated for the initial unlock cost. Of course, if you take it as a “long term goal” then it’s much less onerous . . . though still, in some cases, over-costed due to that misconception of “small guild” to mean able to field 10-15 people.

In the beginning… we weren’t just spewing gross exaggerations and nonsense entitled QQ.

The unlock cost, while being something that was a bit of slap to the face… pales in comparison to the real argument… the lockout and timelapse this has occured that is bleeding population from smaller guilds into larger ones. Our concerns have since been very much validated by player behavior.

What we have seen is even more guilds requiring 100% repping… even beyond that we have seen guilds wanting to charge people to have access to the reward system… lots of mud being slung from both sides of the argument at each other… tons of entitlement (big guild deserves to see content first blah blah blah)… ridiculous amounts of abuse being leveled on people within in-game chat channels… basically lots of things that we’ve always hated about every mmo ever made that sought to give certain portions of the population “exclusive” content…

I went from being a fairly hardcore player (multiple hours every day like clockwork) to not having logged in since the patch dropped. The air surrounding these guild missions in-game has become almost caustic. People trying to recruit for their guild getting shouted down… lot’s of hoity toity big shot big guild members flexing and slinging their e-junk around like primates hooting at each other… abuse across the board from guilds screaming at non-guildies in the mission for not coordinating well enough…

Right now GW2 isn’t a game I want to be playing… because it isn’t fun to log in and watch people abuse each other. I was looking forward to the guild missions very much… especially the races and puzzle… but the way this has been handled doused my enthusiasm with a bucket of glacial waters. It’s not that I wasn’t prepared to do the work to raise AoW… it’s not that I don’t think larger guilds should have stuff to do together… it’s that the way Anet handled the release of this content was very reminiscent of a monkey kittening a football. It’s ugly… invites elitism and exclusion… encourages player abuse… and creates stratification based on haves and have nots.

I’m sure it will cool down eventually… maybe things will go back to the way they were before… maybe Anet will fix it… I doubt it… and gamestop isn’t so far away that I’ll be willing to watch a few thousand morons abuse each other for too long.

To be honest? The longer I see what “the players” think by browsing Reddit and the forums the more I wonder: “Why do I enjoy this game? Clearly I’m supposed to hate it.” Then I spend a few minutes logging in and chatting with my guild and remember they’re why I enjoy the game.

bluewanders.5297:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yeah, I missed your sarcasm font. I have this thing in Chrome and Safari which automatically converts it to Arial. I should really turn that off.

I’ve also been in this before the content launched, but mostly the voice going: “But it’s not out yet, can we wait until it hits and we see what it exactly is before we go to the rooftops?” And the hopeful “maybe it won’t be so bad”.

It’s pretty bad if you look at it from “getting to it immediately”, though I can attribute that to the devs missing the range on “small guilds” and what Influence they should have. They overestimated for the initial unlock cost. Of course, if you take it as a “long term goal” then it’s much less onerous . . . though still, in some cases, over-costed due to that misconception of “small guild” to mean able to field 10-15 people.

In the beginning… we weren’t just spewing gross exaggerations and nonsense entitled QQ.

The unlock cost, while being something that was a bit of slap to the face… pales in comparison to the real argument… the lockout and timelapse this has occured that is bleeding population from smaller guilds into larger ones. Our concerns have since been very much validated by player behavior.

What we have seen is even more guilds requiring 100% repping… even beyond that we have seen guilds wanting to charge people to have access to the reward system… lots of mud being slung from both sides of the argument at each other… tons of entitlement (big guild deserves to see content first blah blah blah)… ridiculous amounts of abuse being leveled on people within in-game chat channels… basically lots of things that we’ve always hated about every mmo ever made that sought to give certain portions of the population “exclusive” content…

I went from being a fairly hardcore player (multiple hours every day like clockwork) to not having logged in since the patch dropped. The air surrounding these guild missions in-game has become almost caustic. People trying to recruit for their guild getting shouted down… lot’s of hoity toity big shot big guild members flexing and slinging their e-junk around like primates hooting at each other… abuse across the board from guilds screaming at non-guildies in the mission for not coordinating well enough…

Right now GW2 isn’t a game I want to be playing… because it isn’t fun to log in and watch people abuse each other. I was looking forward to the guild missions very much… especially the races and puzzle… but the way this has been handled doused my enthusiasm with a bucket of glacial waters. It’s not that I wasn’t prepared to do the work to raise AoW… it’s not that I don’t think larger guilds should have stuff to do together… it’s that the way Anet handled the release of this content was very reminiscent of a monkey kittening a football. It’s ugly… invites elitism and exclusion… encourages player abuse… and creates stratification based on haves and have nots.

I’m sure it will cool down eventually… maybe things will go back to the way they were before… maybe Anet will fix it… I doubt it… and gamestop isn’t so far away that I’ll be willing to watch a few thousand morons abuse each other for too long.

Thanks for posting this, Blue.

Yohimbe.1876:

Leohan.1096:

People want solutions instead of all this QQ’s? Ok fine here’s one, coach sign me up, I am ready for the big game, ready to work in game development at any time.

Here’s the way I think it should have been done and still can be done. Put the bounties in the different tiers create new unlock bounty tiers that each divide the current 30,000 influence, so each bounty tier unlock is 10,000 influence. This way at least the middle to small guilds can do one guild mission in the next month.

Here’s the list and what it would look like in Art of War.

Research Art of War Level 1
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 1
500  Influence
-
16 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 2
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 2
1000  Influence
1 day

---

 Research Art of War Level 3
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 3
5000  Influence
3 days

Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 1
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

Guild Bounty Tier 1
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild. Guild members will have to track down and defeat each of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 4
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 4
10000  Influence
4 days

 Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 2
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

 Guild Bounty Tier 2
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild with one additional target. Guild members will have to track down and defeat all three of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 5
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 5
20000  Influence
1 week

 Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 3
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

 Guild Bounty Tier 3
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild with four additional targets. Guild members will have to track down and defeat all six of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

Research Art of War Level 6
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 6
30000 Influence
10 days

^^ This, in combination with a proper Alliance system that allows small guilds to participate together on missions while earning influence for their respective guilds. This.
And well done, Leohan.

YES! Though my guild may still have some work to do to start doing some guild missions, having the lower tier missions start at level 3 is a heck of a lot more attainable and should stop or at least lower the amount of discontent from us small guilds. You sir win the genius of the internet for the week.

Meithar.7051:

Yohimbe.1876:

Leohan.1096:

People want solutions instead of all this QQ’s? Ok fine here’s one, coach sign me up, I am ready for the big game, ready to work in game development at any time.

Here’s the way I think it should have been done and still can be done. Put the bounties in the different tiers create new unlock bounty tiers that each divide the current 30,000 influence, so each bounty tier unlock is 10,000 influence. This way at least the middle to small guilds can do one guild mission in the next month.

Here’s the list and what it would look like in Art of War.

Research Art of War Level 1
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 1
500  Influence
-
16 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 2
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 2
1000  Influence
1 day

---

 Research Art of War Level 3
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 3
5000  Influence
3 days

Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 1
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

Guild Bounty Tier 1
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild. Guild members will have to track down and defeat each of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 4
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 4
10000  Influence
4 days

 Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 2
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

 Guild Bounty Tier 2
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild with one additional target. Guild members will have to track down and defeat all three of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

 Research Art of War Level 5
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 5
20000  Influence
1 week

 Guild Bounties Unlock Tier 3
Allows the guild to build Guild Bounty missions.
10000  Influence
3 days

 Guild Bounty Tier 3
Trigger a bounty hunt for the guild with four additional targets. Guild members will have to track down and defeat all six of the bounties within a set amount of time to complete the hunt. Each bounty is a champion, so prepare accordingly.
200  Influence
12 hours

---

Research Art of War Level 6
Increase your guild’s skill in Art of War to Level 6
30000 Influence
10 days

^^ This, in combination with a proper Alliance system that allows small guilds to participate together on missions while earning influence for their respective guilds. This.
And well done, Leohan.

YES! Though my guild may still have some work to do to start doing some guild missions, having the lower tier missions start at level 3 is a heck of a lot more attainable and should stop or at least lower the amount of discontent from us small guilds. You sir win the genius of the internet for the week.

No… honestly the new guild content should have been placed in a tree all it’s own. So that every guild, no matter it’s size or age… would start on a level playing field. Because they’ve been on a level playing field all along… everyone starting a new guild could look and see exactly what each tech tree was about, and plan how their guild would grow based on that.

You don’t tell someone they can order a pizza… take their order… start making it… then halfway though baking it let them know their topping choices have changed.

When you add new items to an existing tree… you announce it well in advance… and make sure that the new addition is relevant to the tree it is being placed in and not just some arbitrary choice.

Since these new missions have absolutely nothing to do with any of the tech trees present… they belong in their own tree. Where a guild who had taken the time to plan their own progression would be on a level playing field with every other guild.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bluewanders.5297:

That isn’t exclusive enough. If there is content that only big guilds can do and be rewarded for… then they need to be excluded from things that small guilds can do and be rewarded for. Otherwise it would be terribly terribly abused… big guilds would do their big guild only content and receive the rewards… then run around raking in tons of currency doing all the “small guild” stuff too…

I’m compelled to ask two questions:

- What stops a large guild from having smaller groups of people do small-guild content? They always could before, there’s practically no way of telling.

- Why does it seem to have a burning need to punish a guild for getting too large? From the ire being heaped at them simply for being large, isn’t there social punishment enough?

We should be figuring out ways of inclusion and not new ways to throw up fences, here . . .

honestly, i do not believe that people’s ire is being heaped on the large guilds — large guilds are a playstyle enjoyed by some, and that’s great! i believe the ire is in reality directed to anet, because their new “guild” content is accessible, for the foreseeable future, ONLY by guilds who have an active membership (and by this i mean regularly on, representing, and playing) of 50 or so people. if you are a true small guild, with a membership of 5-20 people, then you must make a decision, which looks like the following:

do i/we wish to do guild missions?

if yes, then …
1) join larger guild and forsake the friendships/relationships in my current guild
2) ally myself with a guild that can unlock the content and get the “non-guild” dregs for attaching myself to the mission
3) join a new guild created as an alliance guild, which necessitates grinding all unlocks from the beginning
4) sinking a heap of irl money into gem purchases to buy the influence
5) forego the guild missions

if no, then …
1) accept that my guild will never see the guild mission content
2) accept that my guild will only ever be hangers-on at any in-world content we may stumble over

it breaks down to those two things, and has absolutely no bearing on the large guilds. it is solely about the position arenanet has put the true small guilds in.

edit: incidentally, tobias, i do think that any “large vs small guild” antipathy or animosity that’s come out over this is something that needs to be recognized by anet. i do believe this is counterintuitive to their drive to build a strong community; there has come a division due to a perceived situation of the “haves” vs the “have-nots”. the onus for this rests squarely on anet’s shoulders; as pointed out, something like this with no mitigating features should have been anticipated, and headed off.

I have been trying to focus on “solutions” rather then the problems.
My question has been since the beginning “how can my guild access and have fun from the Guild Missions?”.
To be honest my question is still largely unanswered.

For reference, my guild averages 5 players in the evening and peaks at 10 in weekends.

Influence cost: we can – using gold – unlock one mission, maybe not today, but soon.
We are trying to decide which mission will be more “fun”.

Doability: we are checking if our current roster may be able to cope with any single mission (tier 1).
We are considering bolstering our number asking friends and teaming up with other guilds, potentially other guilds who have unlocked a different Guild Mission.
We still don’t know if it would be worth, and if it can be done without losing the fun of playing.

I believe that most of the disappointment in guild missions came from communication from ANet. A different way of saying things, even if everything would have been the same, would have created a very different reaction.

I think we may all (well, most of us at least) agree that Gw2 lacked what in other mmrpg is called “Raid content”.
Raid content requires:
- many people
- organizational skill and coordination
- good gear and gameplay skill
- dedicated players
We may like it or not, but Guild Missions basically introduced a Raid complexity element to the game. And, let’s be honest, not in a hardcore way like most other mmrpg.

Besides, most players that are in small guilds and prefers small guilds are used to not be able to play Raid content, unless by going with more organized and larger player groups. And even when a small guild tackles the Raid experience it is expected that it will take time before it actually works.

On the other hand, when I first heard about Guild Missions, I was all geared up. I was looking forward to content I could have shared with my friends in my small guild… something to do with our flag, our uniforms (sometimes we dress all in the same color, and yes, it’s pink ^^), because we are a guild and we play like that. But it would have been nice to play it alongside the game.

What I felt is that Guild Missions have been a way to introduce Raid content to the game. And not to give content to guilds (even for big guilds).
This created a dissonance, and fueled the huge critics that are flooding forums everywhere.

As for my guild, we will really treat Guild Missions like Raids.
If we discover we can do them, without betraying our way of playing and being together… we shall do them.
If not, we will ignore them.
If we cannot to those, I will encourage my players that want to access those missions and those reward, to find another guild to play with. I will never want my guild to be a burden to its player. (luckily people can have more than one guild).

I still miss Guild Content that could enhanche our playing as a team, with my small (yet open and international) group of friends.
I hope A-Net will think about us in future enanchements.

I also hope that in ANet team the equation:
Guilds = Big Hardcore Guilds will not stay.
Casual players buy gems too.
And they are dear to us… me and the most active of mine, will not ditch them. So baing barred from new content just because of our “love” for friendship and small friend-based communuty, creates a bad feeling. ^^

Peace and love and brigth blessing to all players in all servers and all around the world. ^^

From doing these things the last few days, i believe 15 mins to coordinate 6 bosses on six maps is too short we really need at least 30 mins…

Neve.3879:

For reference, my guild averages 5 players in the evening and peaks at 10 in weekends.

Influence cost: we can – using gold – unlock one mission, maybe not today, but soon.
We are trying to decide which mission will be more “fun”.

Doability: we are checking if our current roster may be able to cope with any single mission (tier 1).
We are considering bolstering our number asking friends and teaming up with other guilds, potentially other guilds who have unlocked a different Guild Mission.
We still don’t know if it would be worth, and if it can be done without losing the fun of playing.

Be carefull you have to unlock Bounty Hunt first which is in the Art of War tree then you can unlock the other missions by upgrading the other tree and so on. You cannot unlock them in a different order from what I understand.

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/26/gw2-guild-missions-guide/

Dante.1508:

From doing these things the last few days, i believe 15 mins to coordinate 6 bosses on six maps is too short we really need at least 30 mins…

For the bounties i think you are expected to go at all the bosses at the same time, splitting your numbers between each opponent. That’s why the higher tiers are big guilds only (and why Anet says the tier 1 can be completed with 10 people)
I’d also like to point out that with the big guilds, you do have enough people to find all the possible bounties before activating the mission, practically eliminating time to find them.

I have a few questions.

1. Is there a reason that we cannot choose which missions we are interested in and pursue those first? As I understand the system, you have to unlock them in a specific order. Guild Bounties>Guild Treks>Guild Rushes>Guild Challenges>Guild Puzzles. Are they purposely tiered in this manner meaning that once we finally unlock Guild Puzzles they will be far more rewarding than Guild Bounties? If not, why are we forced to follow this chain? Why not allow us to pick which one we want to unlock first?

Especially since the first one is in the Art of War tree which many guilds have not invested in at all. If they have level 6 already in Politics, why force them to start at the bottom of Art of War instead of rewarding the dedication they have already shown? I read the dev post in the early pages of this thread and understand that you are planning to make Art of War applicable to all guilds; however, that doesn’t have any bearing on the situation as of right now.
The current situation is that many guilds are barred from Guild Missions because they unknowingly invested in the wrong things. No, it’s not a huge deal to put out the influence to upgrade Art of War in order to get there but why would you knowingly bar, or at the very least, time-gate, your PvE guilds from this brand-new feature that’s supposed to be so exciting without even a hint of warning? Why would you blatantly favor WvW guilds in this way? It’s not about whether Art of War will be useful to everyone in the future, it’s about the fact that right now you have excluded all non-WvW guilds from something that you advertised as fun and exciting for everyone.

2. Did you purposely throw small guilds under the bus? Is it your intent that all guilds be 200+ members? If not, then is it possible that a scaling system be implemented based on the number of members in a guild? For example, if you have 200 members it costs 50k influence but if you have 100 members it costs only 30k influence. Or perhaps the rate at which influence is gained could be changed. If there are 200 members each event earns 5 influence. If there are 100 members, each event earns 10 influence.

I am currently in a guild of 4 dedicated players and 2 weekenders. We also have 3 members who play every so often. After much deliberation, we’ve decided that as much as we had looked forward to February’s update for guild missions, we will be waiting. We don’t want to join a large guild and be lost in the crush and we don’t want to flood our own guild with random people. We like hanging out and playing with just each other. As things are, it’s going to take us about a month to unlock Guild Bounties which is a real shame because we were so excited about the whole thing. It’s also a shame because we had been looking forward to Guild Puzzles the most; however, it’s going to be probably about a year before we ever come close to unlocking that.

I understand that you want to make unlocking these missions a challenge by itself but for one thing, it’s not fun grinding and it’s something you’ve said you’re against. In order to get even the first of these missions unlocked, it requires a fair amount of grinding influence if you don’t already have it. For a small guild, the amount of grinding required is much, much greater. For another, it’s more than merely a challenge for small guilds. It’s a mountain we have to climb and while we do so, we watch larger guilds dance on their little hill celebrating one unlock after another. Surely we can find some middle ground here.

A few comments/notes:
1) “Stand down” means un-represent, not “go down to officer” or whatever your second rank is. I’ve done it and I’m still the Faerie Queen.
2) From what I can tell, they want this to be “long-term progression” and they also want us to invest our influence in multiple lines. However, there are major flaws with this logic. For my guild’s rate of influence gaining, it would take us 9 years if we doubled our pace to get the one guild mission we want (as sadly, it is the last). I don’t think that’s what they intended for long-term progression, particularly as they intend to add more from what I can tell. Another flaw, is just that they could rearrange how Art of War is set up and just add some cool PvE stuff to it without forcing it on us. They force it on us now. This is not going to get more people into WvW, this is not going to get more people investing influence into Art of War as they’ll only invest for the tiers, not the stuff within the tiers (which I think they intend for us to do by forcing an order on us). And beyond that, it’s just not “play your own way” when they force us to do something. The lines are separate for a reason. And maybe the AofW line should have a guild mission specifically to do with WvW and of course, separated out from the other guild missions. They also wanted “challenging” content, but they gave impossible content for some small guilds. I do not think this is what they intended. They say small guilds can do the content ‘cause other people will help them out. Well, if the other people don’t get more than a DE reward, why would they help out a small guild?
3) They wanted another way to get precursors/ascended items. However, it only benefits the people who already have an easier time getting them (ie the people in larger guilds who can form dungeon groups etc and so forth) and doesn’t help at all the small guilds.
4) Alliances would help. There would be far less bitterness. Particularly if each guild in the alliance could go for a different guild mission. And the small guilds in the alliance would get the benefit of being in a larger guild by being able to participate in, and get rewarded for, these missions. Beyond that, they could donate influence to the alliance, helping the larger guilds get the missions more quickly.

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

In order to correct this, just make it so the content is still somewhat gated, but the initial cost to research these missions is much less (say around 10k total). However, for large guilds, make the boosting mechanic even more expensive then it currently is. That way, large guilds simply get access to the content faster if they are willing to boost it out (say it gives them a 1 to 2 week advtange overall), but smaller guilds can still feel like they’re researching the mission, but on a longer scale. I think this would be a fair compromise.

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

In order to correct this, just make it so the content is still somewhat gated, but the initial cost to research these missions is much less (say around 10k total). However, for large guilds, make the boosting mechanic even more expensive then it currently is. That way, large guilds simply get access to the content faster if they are willing to boost it out (say it gives them a 1 to 2 week advtange overall), but smaller guilds can still feel like they’re researching the mission, but on a longer scale. I think this would be a fair compromise.

Why don’t they just give us guild missions? So you can play them any time, make it bigger reward for bigger guilds or something, i don’t care that about reward friom guild missions. At this state, they are now worse then raids in WoW (didn’t play orig wow, only on some private)

Dear ANet,
I would like to play this new content without being an anonymous number in a large guild. I have a small family and friends guild and from reading about this before it was released it was my understanding that there would be a lot of new and amazing things to do. I spoke with everyone I played Guild Wars 2 with and they expressed much interest. I showed them all the information you released to the public and they too thought it would be fun. On the day it was released we all were pretty down about it as none of us could take part in any of the guild activities. I told my friends this and many of them didn’t even bother logging in to play the normal content with me. I really do like this game, this is actually my first major disappointment and it does not appear I am alone.

It would be nice it there was a progressive guild mission system that didn’t start at the top of the previous guild unlocks but was incorporated into it being unlock-able along with each tier starting with the first in each category. Also I feel that the first missions in each of the categories should not cost influence. That way people can “play their way”.

aside from all the rant, anybody tried those?
is it dungeon level of fun, or jormag level of yawn&loot ?

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

No. Absolutely not. I don’t know what kind of thinking leads to people saying that any size guild should have an advantage over any other size guild. That isn’t a fair compromise at all… large guilds aren’t special… they aren’t more important… they aren’t anything other than a larger collective of normal players. And should be treated as such. The ONLY advantage a large guild should have is in meeting the playstyle needs of it’s members… I.E. Large scale group dynamics. Increased influence gain is also an advantage. Beyond that, they deserve absolutely nothing. People that don’t enjoy that wouldn’t see it as an advantage, and wouldn’t feel disadvantaged for not being in a large guild.

This isn’t WoW… and shouldn’t be made into WoW.

Avatar.1923:

aside from all the rant, anybody tried those?
is it dungeon level of fun, or jormag level of yawn&loot ?

how can i try when my guild doesn’t even know when we will play them? (250+ members) i can just imagine what it is like for small guilds

Just being facetious here for a moment . . .

What if small guilds got access to guild halls first? Obviously it takes less time to construct a guild for 10 people than for 500 people.

How would non-small guild members feel about that?

And if it took months to construct a large guild hall would their members be patient?

Would they be understanding when their members left to join small guilds or to build their own?

Sovta.4719:

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

In order to correct this, just make it so the content is still somewhat gated, but the initial cost to research these missions is much less (say around 10k total). However, for large guilds, make the boosting mechanic even more expensive then it currently is. That way, large guilds simply get access to the content faster if they are willing to boost it out (say it gives them a 1 to 2 week advtange overall), but smaller guilds can still feel like they’re researching the mission, but on a longer scale. I think this would be a fair compromise.

Why don’t they just give us guild missions? So you can play them any time, make it bigger reward for bigger guilds or something, i don’t care that about reward friom guild missions. At this state, they are now worse then raids in WoW (didn’t play orig wow, only on some private)

Well that’s basically what I’m saying. Whether it is release to us immediately (I would have liked to have seen the first guild mission immediately available to everyone) or slowly released over time through research barries doesn’t bother me – in fact I like the idea of unlocking and progressing. I’m currently in a mid-sized guild (around 160 players, with 30-50 active on any given night), so this is rather moot to me, but I can feel for the smaller guilds.

The problem really though – is the rewards. If guild missions had 0 tangible rewards, then no1 would care about the system. Large guilds should have an advantage here, but simply not as much as they do – the gap in progression should be simply cut down significantly between the two (e.g. a large guild should only be maybe 1 week to 2 weeks ahead in research time overall).

bluewanders.5297:

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

No. Absolutely not. I don’t know what kind of thinking leads to people saying that any size guild should have an advantage over any other size guild. That isn’t a fair compromise at all… large guilds aren’t special… they aren’t more important… they aren’t anything other than a larger collective of normal players. And should be treated as such. The ONLY advantage a large guild should have is in meeting the playstyle needs of it’s members… I.E. Large scale group dynamics. Increased influence gain is also an advantage. Beyond that, they deserve absolutely nothing. People that don’t enjoy that wouldn’t see it as an advantage, and wouldn’t feel disadvantaged for not being in a large guild.

This isn’t WoW… and shouldn’t be made into WoW.

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

docMed.7692:

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

Larger guilds (30 or more active players) would have sufficient advantage over smaller guilds for just being able to run LARGER guild missions that have correspondingly better rewards than lower-tier missions.

Excluding smaller guilds from the rewards that can be earned in guild missions for many months (if not forever) simply takes this advantage too far. (And this is even assuming that a group of 5-10 players can even complete the lowest tier Bounty.)

I wonder what will be next. Guild halls that can only be bought with 250 of a special item that only drops from the Guild Puzzle chest?

docMed.7692:

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

Does it? A mechanical or statistical advantage for big guild players? Why?

Astralporing.1957:

I’d also like to point out that with the big guilds, you do have enough people to find all the possible bounties before activating the mission, practically eliminating time to find them.

So the Bounty NPC’s are in the world even if no guild has activated a Bounty Mission? They are not spawned by the mission activation?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Astralporing.1957:

I’d also like to point out that with the big guilds, you do have enough people to find all the possible bounties before activating the mission, practically eliminating time to find them.

So the Bounty NPC’s are in the world even if no guild has activated a Bounty Mission? They are not spawned by the mission activation?

It seems so, i have seen one of those already (couldn’t attack it, though). This also seems implied by devs comments (they said that npc is immediately respawned after getting killed).

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Excluding smaller guilds from the rewards that can be earned in guild missions for many months (if not forever) simply takes this advantage too far. (And this is even assuming that a group of 5-10 players can even complete the lowest tier Bounty.)

Funny thing is, the only one mission that is being said to be possibly achievable with 5 people is the Guild Puzzle. Yes, the last one in the chain. makes you wonder, right?

It’s only been a few days since the new content went live and we’re already seeing the consequences of it. They’re visible even on the forums. The big guilds are the only gate to the new content and high end gear and they know it. And they know they can make demands. Of course not everyone will, there are some very nice people out there. However, as they say, power corrupts.

I’ve seen something similar happen in another MMO. The only end game raid there (and means of getting high end gear) was dominated by two large groups. One of them allowed my faction to join. The price for that was that every time they saw me join the other group for any other content (PvE or PvP) I was harassed and threatened to never have access to end game raid on any of my characters.

When I started playing GW2 I was so happy that it was free from politics like that. Now I am extremely dissapointed.

The ironic thing is that I finally left my previous MMO for good after one of the devs stated on the forums that some of the changes in the next patch were made to “funnel people into big orgs”. I refuse to be “funneled”.

I want to enjoy this game with my friends and family. I don’t want to be bossed around by a big guild just because they have strength in numbers and got a seal of approval from the game developers to bully everyone else if they choose to do so. This is wrong.

docMed.7692:

bluewanders.5297:

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

No. Absolutely not. I don’t know what kind of thinking leads to people saying that any size guild should have an advantage over any other size guild. That isn’t a fair compromise at all… large guilds aren’t special… they aren’t more important… they aren’t anything other than a larger collective of normal players. And should be treated as such. The ONLY advantage a large guild should have is in meeting the playstyle needs of it’s members… I.E. Large scale group dynamics. Increased influence gain is also an advantage. Beyond that, they deserve absolutely nothing. People that don’t enjoy that wouldn’t see it as an advantage, and wouldn’t feel disadvantaged for not being in a large guild.

This isn’t WoW… and shouldn’t be made into WoW.

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

They have a reason to exist… that reason is some players enjoy playing in large groups…. and they have an advantage… faster influence gain. They “DESERVE” absolutely nothing beyond that. They are not special… they are not more important… they are just a larger collective of normal gamers. End of story.

I was just reading a thread about ascended cleric gear and saw several replies from devs. I find it interesting that none have commented on this one.

bluewanders.5297:

docMed.7692:

bluewanders.5297:

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

No. Absolutely not. I don’t know what kind of thinking leads to people saying that any size guild should have an advantage over any other size guild. That isn’t a fair compromise at all… large guilds aren’t special… they aren’t more important… they aren’t anything other than a larger collective of normal players. And should be treated as such. The ONLY advantage a large guild should have is in meeting the playstyle needs of it’s members… I.E. Large scale group dynamics. Increased influence gain is also an advantage. Beyond that, they deserve absolutely nothing. People that don’t enjoy that wouldn’t see it as an advantage, and wouldn’t feel disadvantaged for not being in a large guild.

This isn’t WoW… and shouldn’t be made into WoW.

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

They have a reason to exist… that reason is some players enjoy playing in large groups…. and they have an advantage… faster influence gain. They “DESERVE” absolutely nothing beyond that. They are not special… they are not more important… they are just a larger collective of normal gamers. End of story.

If the new content only can done with large groups (10+ ppl) the bigger guild are a clear advantaje.

bluewanders.5297:

docMed.7692:

bluewanders.5297:

docMed.7692:

I think the simple resolution for the current Guild Missions system is this:

- Large guilds should have an advantage, but not as much as they have now over small guilds.

No. Absolutely not. I don’t know what kind of thinking leads to people saying that any size guild should have an advantage over any other size guild. That isn’t a fair compromise at all… large guilds aren’t special… they aren’t more important… they aren’t anything other than a larger collective of normal players. And should be treated as such. The ONLY advantage a large guild should have is in meeting the playstyle needs of it’s members… I.E. Large scale group dynamics. Increased influence gain is also an advantage. Beyond that, they deserve absolutely nothing. People that don’t enjoy that wouldn’t see it as an advantage, and wouldn’t feel disadvantaged for not being in a large guild.

This isn’t WoW… and shouldn’t be made into WoW.

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

They have a reason to exist… that reason is some players enjoy playing in large groups…. and they have an advantage… faster influence gain. They “DESERVE” absolutely nothing beyond that. They are not special… they are not more important… they are just a larger collective of normal gamers. End of story.

Yep, and that faster influence should give them an advantage in some manner (I agree its too large at this moment).

kmc.7681:

I was just reading a thread about ascended cleric gear and saw several replies from devs. I find it interesting that none have commented on this one.

They specifically created a post saying “we want to hear from you” – not, “Let’s debate this where 30,000 + opinions will be shared”.

stof.9341:

docMed.7692:

There has to be an advantage to having a larger guild – else what would be the point? They’ve made larger guilds more desireable and are making guilds themselves more desireable. It’s all a step in the right direction, but there really should be a reason to have a 30+ active player guild, vs a 3-5 active player guild.

Does it? A mechanical or statistical advantage for big guild players? Why?

I would think more from a mechanical standpoint – trying to invision 5 people doing some of the mission types they’ve explained is rather difficult (I would think 15 to 20 would be ideal).

I agree there is definitely too large of a gap between the influence small guilds gain vs large guilds. In my original post I indicated that the first guild mission should have just been unlocked for everyone free. Subsequent initial research costs should have been very small (1k to maybe 10k match), but include a much longer research time (say 1 1/2 weeks or so to get another mission type unlocked). Then, I would tweak the boost times from say 75K a boost, to 150k to maybe even 200k, or how about a scalable boosting system (base boost cost is 25k, and then subsequent boost costs continue to increase by 75k per use). This way, large guilds would be forced to burn a lot of influence to get the content “quicker”. But ultimately, the idea is that max boosting would be extremely costly and only provide maybe a 1 or 2 week advantage at any point in unlocking content. I think that would be a fair compromise and smaller guilds wouldn’t feel screwed because they still get content, will eventually get all the content in the foreseeable future, and there is still a reason for guild leaders to orchestrate large guilds, etc.

Is too simple…

Big Guild: AoW at lvl4, 500K influence acumulated. February 26th, 00:00 patch launched. 15 min after start with bounty hunt.

Small Guild: AoW at lvl2, 5K influence acumulatd. February 26th, 00:00 patch launched. 15 days and 60g after start with bounty hunt.

Nice Job.

I also think they missed one major idea: There is a difference between “long-term progression” for aesthetics/gear (ie Legendary Weapons) and content. People don’t expect to have to earn content. You either buy it (expansion) or it’s because you’re in a sub mmo, or it comes free. Who in their right mind would have you earn content?! I think this would have been accepted far easier if it weren’t content they were doing this to. Like if it were new guild armor skins or guild weapon skins.

But if you have content earned, it better be earned in a similar time-span for everyone. You didn’t have to earn GvG, but you had to earn your ranking.

Another idea: Give the content out free and base the rewards on how well you played and/or how quickly you got it finished.

Or maybe make GvG races (with giving it out free) with it and the winner gets the loot (and you’d have a guild ranking system where similar leveled guilds would play against each other). This has two advantages: 1) GvG is missed by some people and it would give the Guild Wars name substance 2) There would be a bit of competition in PvE, skill would be involved in getting the rewards rather than sheer size.
Oh, another advantage = “long-term progression” is qualified because of the ability to increase rank and play against more skilled guilds. Possibly they could add rewards that would also fit that, too.
Also, obviously if you’re playing against a similarly-ranked guild in a race, size doesn’t matter so long as content is scaled to size.