Guild Wars 2

>>>Edit: THIS IS NOT A Gw2 vs Wildstar Thread.<<<
>>>Read this post before replying to the thread!!<<<

Firstly, I love Gw2 – A lot. I think it was a great and important leap for the MMO genre in a much needed direction.

However, for the last year or so, I seem to find little enjoyment in the game. I tried out Wildstar yesterday and shortly enough understood what I missed from Gw2:

Freaking Active Challenging content!
Whilst playing WS, I encountered several “Elite”-ish mobs which actually forced me to think on the fly and utilize my abilities and movement the best I could in order to not get roflstomped. I’m not much for WS, but I’ve missed this so much that it’s enough to draw me in.

I heard that WS would have actual difficulty in it, but I was always skeptical since the Dungeons in Gw2 where also considered to be difficult – But then people learned the tactics and it was a walk in the park. The challenge lies in remembering the tactics and just doing them.
The challenges feels different in WS. Surely they will become a lot easier later down the line, but even then I don’t think there will be a lack of good and really difficult content even whilst leveling.

Even though I haven’t played Wildstar’s End game (they insist on calling it “Elder”) I think Gw2 is the greater game. This is not supposed to be a praise to WS, it’s supposed to draw attention to what probably a lot of people miss in Gw2: Actual actively challenging content. I think there’s a huge chunk of people that miss this a lot, whether they know it or not (although I’m obviously biased).

Gw2 seem to often be referred to be a “very casual game”. Do you think that this is something that the game really, really needs?

(please keep on topic and be reasonable)

Everything in pve requires improvisation and skill the first time it’s done and neither of those things every other time. I imagine the very same ‘game is too easy’ complaints will be made in Wildstar since people think that having a dodge button makes the above no longer apply.

I totally agree with knightblaster.

Again, just look at probably the most hyped about MMO game that is soon to come out, ArcheAge. The game is created by original Lineage creators. And I’ve got to tell you this: Lineage was the most complete, the most complex, original and the most demanding MMO I have ever played. Still my No. 1.

We will see what the market brings in the nearest future. The simplicity of GW2’s one of the issues I have with the game, unfortunately.

in the games with hard core raiding as endgame the entire game designed around it, in open world you see some mobs that will challenge you basically to teach you to play skill fully and dungeons are designed to make you raid ready, and finally raids.
look at arah in gw2 most people prefer to buy arah tokens rather than going through it.
therefore you see seller almost 24/7 because of demand. it happens because the audience of this game mostly casuals players who do not like challenging stuff or you would see them doing arah rather than buying it.

Corpus Christi.2057:

I totally agree with knightblaster.

Me too, it was well written.

But why can’t Gw2 have some content that caters to that other crowd as well? I’m not suggesting that they are to change anything fundamentally, just add content that provides active, on the fly challenges.

knightblaster.7420:

It’s a pretty fundamental philosophical/design difference.

WildStar has been envisioned from the beginning as being a game that was trying to feature the kind of difficulty that existed in MMOs (even the leveling game) prior to WoW’s expansions. The concept was to create a game that was, from the very beginning of it, tailored to meet the needs and desires of the most hardcore, high-skill-cap players in the MMO community — a group which often feels like its needs are overlooked in MMOs these days. So, WildStar from soup to nuts is catering to the most intense, hardcore, high skill gamer — that’s it’s own niche. I think it will be successful in that niche, but there are many other players who play MMOs these days who are moderately skilled at best and are not hardcore — they will be punished by WildStar’s design, and will not find it rewarding --> and, that’s okay because they are not WildStar’s target audience. The most hardcore, skill-cap oriented players are what they are going for.

And when they realize that this is the smallest and hardest to please niche in the MMO market, they’ll dumb down the content and make everything easier to attract the mainstream players, in much the same way that GW2 devs added ascended gear and fractal dungeons to appeal to the rush of hardcore gamers who complained that there was nothing to do when they hit the level cap after 10 days of play.

Phadde.7362:

Corpus Christi.2057:

I totally agree with knightblaster.

Me too, it was well written.

But why can’t Gw2 have some content that caters to that other crowd as well? I’m not suggesting that they are to change anything fundamentally, just add content that provides active, on the fly challenges.

Phadde, I stated that although I agree with him, I’m often dissastisfied with the simplicity that GW2 presents. Just look at the level of conversation between the characters in the Season One Living story additions: it felt as if I were reading a bed time story for a 5-year-old kid. That’s what kittenes me off about GW2, tbh.

Phadde.7362:

But why can’t Gw2 have some content that caters to that other crowd as well? I’m not suggesting that they are to change anything fundamentally, just add content that provides active, on the fly challenges.

It’s something to think about, certainly.

I think there could be room here for challenges and that type of thing that would reward a more high skill cap player. I think the main issue is that typically that kind of challenge, in order for the high skill cap player to find rewarding, has to provide the high skill cap player with gear/ability upgrades that are only available to that skill cap level — i.e., something that provides separation between them and the moderate skill cap players.

That’s where the design philosophy issue comes in, I think. So, you could have some challenging content that would require higher skill cap players to complete it, but unless you had specific rewards that created separation in gear/abilities as a result of that, the players would feel unrewarded and that it “is not worth it to play that content”.

It’s harder, I think, to please both groups in one game than it seems. WoW has managed to do it, sort of, but only by endlessly tweaking and changing things over the course of time, sometimes lurching the game in a more casual direction, and other times in a more core direction —although overall it has clearly moved to a more casual direction since the vanilla version, and this is something which has alienated a lot of more hardcore type players from WoW. I’m guessing that the more creative game designers these days are trying to go more for one or the other side of the coin, in terms of overall design, rather than trying to emulate WoW’s “something for everyone” approach, which took years to build.

knightblaster.7420:

It’s a pretty fundamental philosophical/design difference.

WildStar has been envisioned from the beginning as being a game that was trying to feature the kind of difficulty that existed in MMOs (even the leveling game) prior to WoW’s expansions. The concept was to create a game that was, from the very beginning of it, tailored to meet the needs and desires of the most hardcore, high-skill-cap players in the MMO community — a group which often feels like its needs are overlooked in MMOs these days. So, WildStar from soup to nuts is catering to the most intense, hardcore, high skill gamer — that’s it’s own niche. I think it will be successful in that niche, but there are many other players who play MMOs these days who are moderately skilled at best and are not hardcore — they will be punished by WildStar’s design, and will not find it rewarding --> and, that’s okay because they are not WildStar’s target audience. The most hardcore, skill-cap oriented players are what they are going for.

GW2 has a completely different philosophy behind it — the idea here was to appeal primarily to the casual gamer by eschewing (for the most part) endgame progression gear treadmills, locking substantial content up in parts of the game reserved for high skill-cap or high time-cap players, and so on. It’s a design that, from the get-go, was certainly destined to alienate the hardcore, high skill cap contingent of the MMO community, precisely because the entire design here is not something that revolves around their needs, but rather the more average, moderate skill, casual player who wants to play for a bit, have some fun, have easy seamless grouping, good QoL features and so on, and then log off, without feeling pressured to do anything in particular to keep up with everyone and mot be left behind the curve and become a social laughingstock in a video game.

So, as far as I can tell, you can’t really get two games that are more philosophically dissimilar than GW2 and WildStar. Almost 180 degrees different in philosophy and intended audience.

but the question is, will they stick with it?

“Look at all the whining casual players in the forum. Maybe we can lower the bar a bit, just a tiny bit…” “Oh, just look how much players GW2 has, they cater to casuals, maybe we can lower the bar just a bit, just a tiny bit…” “oh, the new expansion is completed only by 10 percent of the players, maybe we can lower the bar just a bit, just a tiny bit…”

I have seen more than one MMORPG being ruined that way and turned into casual hell. I have some hope, but I am mostly sceptical.

Knightblaster, you’re right on.
I’ve been playing Wildstar in beta for a while, and honestly found it to be simply childish compared to GW2. It’s all flashes and noises and over-exaggeration.
I went to a “vista” when I was an Explorer… and was unimpressed. GW2 is flat-out gorgeous, and don’t you ever forget it!
I found the spells and skills to be confusing, no matter what class, with the special doohickies that you had to fill up or not fill up or I don’t know. That was mostly noobishness, but it seemed harder than normal to pick up and play effectively. (I don’t remember that happening as a noob in GW2.)
I hated having to pick up quests… instead of them just happening organically. The “kill this many whatsits” challenges were interesting, but that’s about it.
Also, wtf is up with the lore everywhere in WS? Weird.

All in all, WS reminded me of WoW. Been there, done that.

However, Wildstar’s unique races are freaking AWESOME. I had so much fun creating toons, that I almost didn’t want to play.

I’ll probably pop into WS this weekend for open beta and see if it catches my attention some more, just to give it a fair shot, but it’s not looking good for it to replace GW2 anytime soon.

Spiral.3724:

but it seemed harder than normal to pick up and play effectively. (I don’t remember that happening as a noob in GW2.)

not sure if that maybe is actually a good thing. If it is caused by bad UI, it is bad, if it comes down to complexitiy/difficulty, I´d say great.

Exactly my thoughts, I’m downloading WS at the moment to check it out. :P

knightblaster.7420:

I think the main issue is that typically that kind of challenge, in order for the high skill cap player to find rewarding, has to provide the high skill cap player with gear/ability upgrades that are only available to that skill cap level — i.e., something that provides separation between them and the moderate skill cap players.

Indeed. I believe that some well designed cosmetic items would suffice as a “trophy” for besting this difficult content.

I tried the open Beta that is running atm. I loved the leveling in WoW Classic – but seems that I can’t stand it anymore. Got to 11 before I gave up. Bored and frustrated.

- boring, old quest system
- lack of good storytelling
- extremly unbalanced enemy design. (you kill 6 mobs together with ease – but one NPC type right next to it is completely unbeatable+hidden Bossmonsters in the free world with no chance to dodge them)

And on top of that, the game engine is not well optimized. I was forced to play on medium with less than 20 FPS. And usually I run games at max with 40-60 FPS. And its not that the graphics in Wildstar are extremly fancy.

So for me it is not a day one purchase but you should try it out for yourself. Open Beta is running until the 18th.

GW2 wasn’t optimized in beta either. Plenty of people with top end systems were getting low frame rates on low settings. The WS beta ran much better for me than the GW 2 beta did.

In my 3 weeks of playing the winter beta, I’d have to say I enjoyed WS a lot more than GW2. The game overall felt more solid and seemed far more feature complete, and has things GW 2 should’ve (a completely customizable skillbar, roles, actual endgame, etc.). The only reason I’m reconsidering my purchase is because, well… it’s published by NC Soft.

I think one of the biggest draws of WS for me is the add-on community. The ability to completely customize the UI, add different features, change it to fit my playstyle completely. When I log into GW2 I am stuck with whatever they give me… and what they give me isn’t that great.

Additionally I like the challenge and skill associated with WS. GW2 is just catered to another crowd entirely, the ultimate of the casuals. I will probably end up playing both games. GW2 for it’s casual LS and WS for its monthly challenging content updates and veteran dungeons.

Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

I like this topic alot! I hope the Moderators won’t delete it (They will).

Anyways I agree that there needs to be more hardcore content in the game. Furthermore, I think that it is coming slowly but surely.

A lot of the additions the devs have made have been to appease players who want more challenge. Fractals and MegaBosses are good examples. Though they didn’t quite hit the nail on the head they were certainly attempts at appealing to the hardcore market.

It isn’t so much that GW2 doesn’t care about challenging content. It is just that they refuse to abandon the more casual gamers. I agree with their design philosophy. Life SHOULD happen. It shouldn’t be a requirement that I live inside your game and if I don’t I am behind if I ever jump back in. At the same time if i put extra effort into the game I should be recognized.

WS will be a good game. Yet do consider that people are still in the euphoria period with it where they can’t see anything wrong with it. It’s like those first few months dating a new girl.

Also consider GW2 is an ambitious title. They are departing from many MMO safety nets (Trinity). It is likely easier to create hard content when you use the tried and tested cookie cutter for group composition.

Anyways those are my ramblings about this topic.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

snip…
Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

They also have open world dueling and a sub fee, two reasons why I will remain playing GW2.

Tommyknocker.6089:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

snip…
Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

They also have open world dueling and a sub fee, two reasons why I will remain playing GW2.

I don’t understand people’s qualms with open world dueling. Why does it bother you?

While this topic will almost certainly be deleted, lets maybe direct it towards something they’ll at least print out and look over in a meeting after its gone:

What good qualities can GW2 absorb from Wildstar without falling off its own pillars?

I have to say I liked the idea of secondary role for content lines – being able to self-select for extra exploration, construction, puzzle solving, or killing-based content to be added in along the main plot path seemed like a nice way to play to preference on your first pass through the game and add replay value to alts (at least the first three will have something you haven’t seen yet).

If we get our personality choices back in GW2 it would be nice to see those used in some way to unlock content that matches your character’s outlook.

While Wildstar has standard trinity, and I personally despise the very notion of the “Tank” role, I think there is still room for a casual game like GW2 to have some roles at all, and maybe even the expectation that there will be 5-man content that requires more use of roles than “we’re all self-sufficient DPS”… especially now that we can reassign trait points in the field.

tolunart.2095:

knightblaster.7420:

It’s a pretty fundamental philosophical/design difference.

WildStar has been envisioned from the beginning as being a game that was trying to feature the kind of difficulty that existed in MMOs (even the leveling game) prior to WoW’s expansions. The concept was to create a game that was, from the very beginning of it, tailored to meet the needs and desires of the most hardcore, high-skill-cap players in the MMO community — a group which often feels like its needs are overlooked in MMOs these days. So, WildStar from soup to nuts is catering to the most intense, hardcore, high skill gamer — that’s it’s own niche. I think it will be successful in that niche, but there are many other players who play MMOs these days who are moderately skilled at best and are not hardcore — they will be punished by WildStar’s design, and will not find it rewarding --> and, that’s okay because they are not WildStar’s target audience. The most hardcore, skill-cap oriented players are what they are going for.

And when they realize that this is the smallest and hardest to please niche in the MMO market, they’ll dumb down the content and make everything easier to attract the mainstream players, in much the same way that GW2 devs added ascended gear and fractal dungeons to appeal to the rush of hardcore gamers who complained that there was nothing to do when they hit the level cap after 10 days of play.

Yep.

tolunart.2095:

And when they realize that this is the smallest and hardest to please niche in the MMO market, they’ll dumb down the content and make everything easier to attract the mainstream players, in much the same way that GW2 devs added ascended gear and fractal dungeons to appeal to the rush of hardcore gamers who complained that there was nothing to do when they hit the level cap after 10 days of play.

Ah, the fundamental perversity of the MMO-verse:

We want them to listen to players and yet we also want them to stick to their guns and uphold the vision we bought the game for in the first place.

jweez.7214:

Tommyknocker.6089:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

snip…
Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

They also have open world dueling and a sub fee, two reasons why I will remain playing GW2.

I don’t understand people’s qualms with open world dueling. Why does it bother you?

Lets just say I would prefer to “see” us vs “them” and not “us” vs “us” in my Player vs Environment (PvE). Personal choice, but if it makes some players migrate to WS, I won’t lose any sleep over it. Anyways this topic has been discussed to death so I can see no reason to derail this thread.

Nike.2631:

Ah, the fundamental perversity of the MMO-verse:

We want them to listen to players and yet we also want them to stick to their guns and uphold the vision we bought the game for in the first place.

Given a choice between sticking to their guns and making a profit, the guns are usually out of luck.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I think one of the biggest draws of WS for me is the add-on community. The ability to completely customize the UI, add different features, change it to fit my playstyle completely. When I log into GW2 I am stuck with whatever they give me… and what they give me isn’t that great.

Additionally I like the challenge and skill associated with WS. GW2 is just catered to another crowd entirely, the ultimate of the casuals. I will probably end up playing both games. GW2 for it’s casual LS and WS for its monthly challenging content updates and veteran dungeons.

Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

Yes, which I think matches the philosophies of the games. GW2 is a casual game from A to Z, WildStar is a hardcore/skill game from A to Z. Just very different games for different player preferences (and abilities).

Nike.2631:

While this topic will almost certainly be deleted, lets maybe direct it towards something they’ll at least print out and look over in a meeting after its gone:

What good qualities can GW2 absorb from Wildstar without falling off its own pillars?

I hope it won’t be deleted, as the thread is meant to discuss pretty much what you asked here.

GW2 is different than Wildstar, because GW2 is an ultra-casual, “everyone wins” sort of game. Hence, why nothing is instanced and blob play is so rewarded. No one gets their feelings hurt and no ones performance is scrutinized in a blob.

It’s why this community is so against things like duels and damage meters.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not for me.

A note to the forums moderators.

Please, do not close this topic. As you can see from the posts above, it includes reference to WildStar only as the pros and cons are discussed here based on the GW2 mechanics most of the time.

I hope that the GW2 devs could read and conisder a lot of valuable insight from various posters.

Cheers

“So, WildStar from soup to nuts is catering to the most intense, hardcore, high skill gamer — that’s it’s own niche.”

So why is it’s advertising targeted at 8 year olds?

Stooperdale.3560:

“So, WildStar from soup to nuts is catering to the most intense, hardcore, high skill gamer — that’s it’s own niche.”

So why is it’s advertising targeted at 8 year olds?

Some people have a sense of humor.

Just because something is off-the-wall and quirky, rather than dark and oh so serious doesn’t mean it’s geared for children.

Phadde.7362:

Nike.2631:

While this topic will almost certainly be deleted, lets maybe direct it towards something they’ll at least print out and look over in a meeting after its gone:

What good qualities can GW2 absorb from Wildstar without falling off its own pillars?

I hope it won’t be deleted, as the thread is meant to discuss pretty much what you asked here.

Lulz the paranoia runs high in this thread. You do know wildstar is being created by ncsoft, you know the same owner of gw2 right? Why would they turn down free game promotion?

Why are people against open world pvp? Simple society has molded player to be weak skinned individuals whose only skill is the ability to make themselves out to be perpetual victims . Never have i seen a forum topic thread be deleted to prevent thousands of players from going into therapy at the mere thought that someone else “might” be better then them at a video game.

Any who there’s 2 upcoming sandbox mmo’s with open world pvp

Nike.2631:

While this topic will almost certainly be deleted, lets maybe direct it towards something they’ll at least print out and look over in a meeting after its gone:

What good qualities can GW2 absorb from Wildstar without falling off its own pillars?

The Ability to hide any armor piece. God I hate medium chest pieces so much I wish I could just toggle them invisible. Best cosmetic feature ever. While we’re on that Wildstar actually offers trenchcoat-less and skirt-less medium armor too. Please Anet, I beg you to copy these features. I am on my knees begging you like the Dog I am for this.

Tommyknocker.6089:

jweez.7214:

Tommyknocker.6089:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

snip…
Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

They also have open world dueling and a sub fee, two reasons why I will remain playing GW2.

I don’t understand people’s qualms with open world dueling. Why does it bother you?

Lets just say I would prefer to “see” us vs “them” and not “us” vs “us” in my Player vs Environment (PvE). Personal choice, but if it makes some players migrate to WS, I won’t lose any sleep over it. Anyways this topic has been discussed to death so I can see no reason to derail this thread.

Does it break your immersion or some thing? Never heard of sparring?

Tommyknocker.6089:

jweez.7214:

Tommyknocker.6089:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

snip…
Another thing that WS is getting right is PvP. They have MULTIPLE game modes, something that GW2 has been sorely lacking since launch. Additionally they don’t have the stupid hotjoin auto balancing or the constant 4v5 that happens here. Plus WS has GvG which was supposed to be guild wars namesake.

Casuals will probably stay here, people looking for a challenge will probably migrate to WS.

They also have open world dueling and a sub fee, two reasons why I will remain playing GW2.

I don’t understand people’s qualms with open world dueling. Why does it bother you?

Lets just say I would prefer to “see” us vs “them” and not “us” vs “us” in my Player vs Environment (PvE). Personal choice, but if it makes some players migrate to WS, I won’t lose any sleep over it. Anyways this topic has been discussed to death so I can see no reason to derail this thread.

If you don’t plan to discuss something, you have no reason to bring it up in the first place.

Wildstar has a horrible tutorial area for both factions. They are boring. What does gw2 do? Through you into the middle of a battle, shoves a weapon into your hand and says ‘see those bad guys? Kill em!’.

Wildstar I’m filling out a questionnaire asking how much i drink then shoving a prop item into my hand, telling me to interrogate some people then press a button.

Yeah, that’s dominion, and exile is the same with the whole ‘help me find my wife!’ walk five feet we’ve found her! Press a button!

Throw me into the middle of a fight any day.

Only got to level 12 till now, but i’m having quite the opposite experience: everything i get in front of me seems to be kitable and killable with the spam of the “autoattack” skill. I’m using a spellslinger.

knightblaster.7420:

It’s a pretty fundamental philosophical/design difference.

WildStar has been envisioned from the beginning as being a game that was trying to feature the kind of difficulty that existed in MMOs (even the leveling game) prior to WoW’s expansions. The concept was to create a game that was, from the very beginning of it, tailored to meet the needs and desires of the most hardcore, high-skill-cap players in the MMO community — a group which often feels like its needs are overlooked in MMOs these days. So, WildStar from soup to nuts is catering to the most intense, hardcore, high skill gamer — that’s it’s own niche. I think it will be successful in that niche, but there are many other players who play MMOs these days who are moderately skilled at best and are not hardcore — they will be punished by WildStar’s design, and will not find it rewarding --> and, that’s okay because they are not WildStar’s target audience. The most hardcore, skill-cap oriented players are what they are going for.

GW2 has a completely different philosophy behind it — the idea here was to appeal primarily to the casual gamer by eschewing (for the most part) endgame progression gear treadmills, locking substantial content up in parts of the game reserved for high skill-cap or high time-cap players, and so on. It’s a design that, from the get-go, was certainly destined to alienate the hardcore, high skill cap contingent of the MMO community, precisely because the entire design here is not something that revolves around their needs, but rather the more average, moderate skill, casual player who wants to play for a bit, have some fun, have easy seamless grouping, good QoL features and so on, and then log off, without feeling pressured to do anything in particular to keep up with everyone and mot be left behind the curve and become a social laughingstock in a video game.

So, as far as I can tell, you can’t really get two games that are more philosophically dissimilar than GW2 and WildStar. Almost 180 degrees different in philosophy and intended audience.

Gear progression does not equal hardcore. GW2 has WvW, spvp, open world pve and dungeon content for endgame. I think people have been ruined by Blizzard. If you’ve played games for as long as I have, you will understand that Blizzard has always made gear hunting simulations. Because WoW became The MMO for all others to beat, this Blizzard design philosphy became the gospel of how to make a “good” MMO. In fact, the Blizzard approach is horrible. I played WoW for maybe a month before quiting. So boring. I’ve played GW2 for about 2 years now. I’ve never played any online game for that long.

Oh man, Wildstar is so kitten boring for me. The first 6 level was that bad i deleted the game.

Didn’t read the whole thread.
When everybody knows the content, tactics and game mechanics inside out and reaches the required gear or even go beyond that, Wildstar will be the same average and easy MMO as others. Only time will tell what will actually happen, but i’m sceptical.
GW2 started the same, as OP said it too. A lot of us dodged and tried to use tactics even against a simple boar and after days passed we realised two auto attack is enough.

Phadde.7362:

Firstly, I love Gw2 – A lot. I think it was a great and important leap for the MMO genre in a much needed direction.

However, for the last year or so, I seem to find little enjoyment in the game. I tried out Wildstar yesterday and shortly enough understood what I missed from Gw2:

Freaking Active Challenging content!
Whilst playing WS, I encountered several “Elite”-ish mobs which actually forced me to think on the fly and utilize my abilities and movement the best I could in order to not get roflstomped. I’m not much for WS, but I’ve missed this so much that it’s enough to draw me in.

I heard that WS would have actual difficulty in it, but I was always skeptical since the Dungeons in Gw2 where also considered to be difficult – But then people learned the tactics and it was a walk in the park. The challenge lies in remembering the tactics and just doing them.
The challenges feels different in WS. Surely they will become a lot easier later down the line, but even then I don’t think there will be a lack of good and really difficult content even whilst leveling.

Even though I haven’t played Wildstar’s End game (they insist on calling it “Elder”) I think Gw2 is the greater game. This is not supposed to be a praise to WS, it’s supposed to draw attention to what probably a lot of people miss in Gw2: Actual actively challenging content. I think there’s a huge chunk of people that miss this a lot, whether they know it or not (although I’m obviously biased).

Gw2 seem to often be referred to be a “very casual game”. Do you think that this is something that the game really, really needs?

(please keep on topic and be reasonable)

GW2 pve content was challenging to people before they figured it out. I think what they need to do is release some new content and add some new challenges.

how can it be so hardcore with a graphics like that. plus it have subscription and gw2 dont have. hussle free. just log in and have fun.

gianz.2513:

how can it be so hardcore with a graphics like that. plus it have subscription and gw2 dont have. hussle free. just log in and have fun.

Eh, it’s a stylistic choice. The visuals do not always correlate to the “hard core” factor.

Also hard core means so many things to so many different people from what I have found tbh.

Personally though the visuals turned me off of Wild Star from the get go so I can’t comment on if it’s really as “hard core” as people claim.

Could we keep this thread on topic? Please refer to the Original Post.

Phadde.7362:

This is not supposed to be a praise to WS, it’s supposed to draw attention to what probably a lot of people miss in Gw2: Actual actively challenging content…..

(please keep on topic and be reasonable)

This is not the game for challenging content. I explained why earlier in the thread.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

GW2 is different than Wildstar, because GW2 is an ultra-casual, “everyone wins” sort of game. Hence, why nothing is instanced and blob play is so rewarded. No one gets their feelings hurt and no ones performance is scrutinized in a blob.

It’s why this community is so against things like duels and damage meters.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not for me.

Implementing some difficult content isn’t really affecting the ordinary casual player(?) no more than high level fractals currently are. Why not add content that provides a good active challenge for the portion of the playerbase that wants it (or longs for it)?

I can’t recall hearing anyone say that adding difficult content would be bad for the game =)

I tried WildStar today and i deleted that game before i even finish first quest.I dont care about game mechanics or does it have end game or not…..THAT ANIMATION….instantly put me off.That game have most cartoonish look seen in ANY game so far,even Super Mario looks more realistic…kitten even WOW looks much better lol.That game will have lots of people who like that stile i guess but will also lose many players cause of that stile of animation.

“Gw2 seem to often be referred to be a “very casual game”. Do you think that this is something that the game really, really needs?”

I’m not sure difficulty is the issue in GW2, the issue I’ve noticed more so is the anonymity of a player in the content of GW2. Nobody cares.

Dungeons are a self reliant dps race, no “nice heals!” or “great job tank!” etc..

World boss- Just the masses spamming and stacking, a bunch of avatars in a dps race of a scripted AI, nobody or no role stands out.

Guild missions- Just a snoozefest of lame tedious minigames, rush through get your tokens & chest.

No community built events for example dueling in the open world fight clubs

Living world- Frustrated bugged content for zergs, solo instances, solo rush, map zerg’n

Even travel in this big beautiful world is pretty lame and minimizes it, why group together cross or clear a map just waypoint.

Phadde.7362:

I can’t recall hearing anyone say that adding difficult content would be bad for the game =)

In previous discussions on the issue, I recall some opining that there should not be content the vast majority of the players cannot access. As “difficult” is a very relative term (I can do most of this game but utterly failed at Clocktower after many hours of trying, whereas others found it beyond easy within minutes), where do you set the bar? What percentage of players should be able to manage it when skill is the only obstacle? I won’t go into ping rates, shoddy mice/keyboards/video cards, as those are far too variable from player to player.

The ones clamoring most for truly hard content probably won’t consider it hard enough until no more than 5% of players can do it even with the best hardware in the world. Heck, there were people claiming Liadri wasn’t hard enough. Should ANet spent development time on content only a tiny fraction of their customers can complete? Should they make the time spent equivalent to the percentage catered to? If only 5% of their new content resources goes to the “hard stuff,” not very much will come out of that.

Wetpaw.3487:

Someone who has beta tested for sometime,

Pros

Firefly western scifi theme

Dueling (great for some community created events)

Challenging instances, not just because they are new, they’re hard but rewarding.

PvP servers (great for some community building events)

Sub model (p2p) or pay through ingame currency (b2p)

Customizable mounts, game built w/the idea of flying mounts in the future

Addons

No gem store, rewards earned not bought.

Living world- Gravity change on moon cycle, water current, nodes that can attack you, etc..

Camera distance

Skins- No limitations on visual appearances ie: Heavy armor wearer can use the appearance of light armor.

No Living story

Double jump, sprint, dodge, & trinity

Real purpose to guilds.

Cons

Lots of AOE in combat, can feel messy at times largscale

Level 1-15 very tedious and lame (greatly improves later)

Housing- Useless currency sink, place for rested XP, could have been better implemented. Should have been out in the world like AA.

Not enough classes, Datamined early stages of the game show the class Techshaman/Dark sorcerer class, probably saved for later xpacs.

Race class limitations due to time, later plans to open all race class combos.

Optimization- Ongoing process of course, and the issue of beta client (information gathering) making things sluggish atm.

more to come as I think it over.

Remember, addons are a double edge sword. That challenging content will eventually not be challenging, both because people will learn the starts, as well as a flashing noise telling them to be ready for an attack (run away Lil girl, run away…).

Also, apparently already you need an ad on to sell junk…unless it was very well hidden.