Guild Wars 2

forum bug, she’s on it.

nathan goossen.9546:

yea sure and for the fact i like todo everything in the game im in and oke i get ppl cryed for it for 2 years already but stil i dont want to be left behinde just becuase im casual and such i want to atlist be able todo it

Here’s your problem. You CAN do even a really hard raid. You just gotta practice. You don’t want to. Why do you think that everything has to be able to easily be done by you? It’s called entitlement.

nathan goossen.9546:

yea sure and for the fact i like todo everything in the game im in and oke i get ppl cryed for it for 2 years already but stil i dont want to be left behinde just becuase im casual and such i want to atlist be able todo it

You can do it, you just probably won’t succeed.

Also talking about raiders “crying” about it, is hypocritical since you are now crying that you “can’t do it”.

What is also interesting is that similar to WoW even casuals had the ability to do raids, many PuG groups and “casual” groups where able to do Molten Core when it was 40man. Just not right away and it was much more difficult, due to lack of coercion and poor communication.

There is nothing that I’ve heard that casuals and PuGs can’t do raids. It will just be much much harder and further down the road then “hardcore” or organized groups.

PUGs should be able to beat it… months after release once general strategies and compositions have been fully explored by the more hardcore. If a PUG walks in the first week and downs it calling it challenging is quite the exaggeration.

It should require a high level of coordination and demand a well thought out team composition to cover all necessary roles. On top of that it should require good individual play. All these elements you’re just not going to find in most PUG groups. Eventually the strategies are passed down and well known such that coordination isn’t required as much as people just know what to do. Likewise team composition will become well known so when someone joins the group they just jump into whatever role is needed without much fuss. But it’ll be a long time before that level of understanding is known by the general community. Then the individual play will be the last factor, if you’re lucky you get good players and aren’t screaming “where was the reflect?!?”

So should there be the potential, absolutely, is it something that should be expected within the first few months of it’s release? absolutely not.

I don’t understand the sense of entitlement that is coming from you people. You don’t have to do the raids if they’re too hard for you. You cry that “hardcore” players want content nobody else can do because it isn’t fun for you and then in the same sentence demand that they make it unfun for those same “hardcore” players. The hypocrisy is real.

Behellagh.1468:

Coulter.2315:

nathan goossen.9546:

wel i think they nead to make 2 mods hard and casual i want todo it to experince it as wel for fun thats whats game about anyway so why does only 1% of ppl most be capable of doing it while the rest stayes in the dust lol thats not fair

99% can’t do it =/= casual pugs can’t do it. No one is asking for something only 1% of people can do.

Actually that’s what the hardcore have been asking for. They want content and especially rewards from content that only the elite of the elite can get. That means account or even character bound rewards that can’t be traded, bought or acquired another way. They want to flaunt their eliteness.

If PUGs repeatedly get their face smashed they hardcore is happy. Now once a guide/video gets posted and a PUG can get on the same page and succeed, then the hardcore can get upset all over again.

“That means account or even character bound rewards that can’t be traded, bought or acquired another way.”

What items are you referring to?

“Now once a guide/video gets posted and a PUG can get on the same page and succeed, then the hardcore can get upset all over again.”

I think if all you need is knowledge on the raid and not actual skill then it’s not really challenging at all. So like if there isn’t really fast attacks etc that you need to dodge and all you need is to read up on the guide a couple weeks after its out then I don’t think it’s challenging.

“They want content and especially rewards from content that only the elite of the elite can get.”

I don’t think its too much to ask for some raid stuff. Like I have said a lot, its ONE raid after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeon/fractal updates. And I don’t think its too much to ask for unique rewards for some content. Pvp has the balthazar backitem, fractals have fractal skins. LS instances have new trinket stat combinations etc etc

Hes referring to Legendary Armor which is the same as exotic but with switchable stats.

Why can’t I just shake the feeling of someone saying “We’re hardcore players, we don’t want PuGs!!!” yet what I really hear is: “We white kids don’t go to school with colored kids!!!”

(I predict my comment is gonna get removed, but ya know, that is what this conversation is leading up to, and it’s pathetic.)

It’s my pug and I’ll pug how I want to.

Jerus.4350:

PUGs should be able to beat it… months after release once general strategies and compositions have been fully explored by the more hardcore. If a PUG walks in the first week and downs it calling it challenging is quite the exaggeration.

It should require a high level of coordination and demand a well thought out team composition to cover all necessary roles. On top of that it should require good individual play. All these elements you’re just not going to find in most PUG groups. Eventually the strategies are passed down and well known such that coordination isn’t required as much as people just know what to do. Likewise team composition will become well known so when someone joins the group they just jump into whatever role is needed without much fuss. But it’ll be a long time before that level of understanding is known by the general community. Then the individual play will be the last factor, if you’re lucky you get good players and aren’t screaming “where was the reflect?!?”

So should there be the potential, absolutely, is it something that should be expected within the first few months of it’s release? absolutely not.

I agree, huge emphasis on the last part, the: Then the individual play will be the last factor, if you’re lucky you get good players and aren’t screaming “where was the reflect?!?”

Undoubtedly strategies will develop as time passes after the raid is released. But you should still need skill and not just have to read a guide.

Jaymee.1560:

Why can’t I just shake the feeling of someone saying “We’re hardcore players, we don’t want PuGs!!!” yet what I really hear is: “We white kids don’t go to school with colored kids!!!”

(I predict my comment is gonna get removed, but ya know, that is what this conversation is leading up to, and it’s pathetic.)

I think there should be easier content ( most of gw2 ) and some harder content for the people that also like that. Pugs are normerly not so good, and thus, if pugs can defeat CHALLENGING group content, then its not really challenging. Now I understand if you manage to get 9 other good players that you will probaly be able to defeat that, I’m just saying ALMOST ALL pugs hopefully won’t be able to do it cause otherwise I don’t think its really gonna be a challenge.

Dinks.2478:

I don’t understand the sense of entitlement that is coming from you people. You don’t have to do the raids if they’re too hard for you. You cry that “hardcore” players want content nobody else can do because it isn’t fun for you and then in the same sentence demand that they make it unfun for those same “hardcore” players. The hypocrisy is real.

People are upset because the hardcore’s don’t even want pugs/casual players to have access to raids, they want a game inside the game for an exclusive group.

Jaymee.1560:

Why can’t I just shake the feeling of someone saying “We’re hardcore players, we don’t want PuGs!!!” yet what I really hear is: “We white kids don’t go to school with colored kids!!!”

(I predict my comment is gonna get removed, but ya know, that is what this conversation is leading up to, and it’s pathetic.)

While maybe true for some, it seems that hardcore players don’t want the only non-casual content of the game to be balanced/dumbed down to accommodate casual players.

What the argument reminds me of is participation trophies. Instead of giving trophies to only the winning team, they instead give them to everyone just for showing up.

BrooksP.4318:

Jaymee.1560:

Why can’t I just shake the feeling of someone saying “We’re hardcore players, we don’t want PuGs!!!” yet what I really hear is: “We white kids don’t go to school with colored kids!!!”

(I predict my comment is gonna get removed, but ya know, that is what this conversation is leading up to, and it’s pathetic.)

While maybe true for some, it seems that hardcore players don’t want the only non-casual content of the game to be balanced/dumbed down to accommodate casual players.

What the argument reminds me of is participation trophies. Instead of giving trophies to only the winning team, they instead give them to everyone just for showing up.

Have to leave this here, god that man is great in every way : http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-back-sons-participation-trophies/story?id=33130650

Seera.5916:

Dinks.2478:

Seera.5916:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Mayga.7241:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

There is smaaall little reason why legendary armor must remain locked behind hardest content in the game. It is called Crafting.

Nothing should belong only to a small fraction of the players in this game. I can go through a raid – this is no problem, I have years of experience in hardmode content.

But why is it necessary? Why this should be tied to the raid content? We have here WoW or GW2? I came to play in GW2. And I want to stay in it – not in clone of WoW.
So legendary armor must be hard-to-get, but only like legendary weapon. Raids must be pure challenge. This is only way to prevent the separation of the community.

Here we go again. WoW and doom in the same post. “Years of experience” yet you don’t understand why armor sets with free stat swapping should not be available to everyone.

Just like the weapons? Oh wait, I’m down to the stuff the needs gold. Gold is not hard to earn. And no where near hardcore.

It becomes something for hardcore players only and hardcore groups that can do it with a few under ten, they will likely sell the other spots for gold. Just like they do in dungeons.

So might as well make it doable by PUGs. It doesn’t have to be easy for them.to do it. But once guides get released, it should be doable, but difficult.

They CAN do it, there is no restriction blocking them aside from difficulty. It is CHALLENGING content. If they can do it they can do it. That is the only way to put it. Nobody will stop them from doing it but themselves.

Claiming because of the stat swapping they shouldn’t be available to everyone when the weapons aren’t is what I was replying to. And that there will be raid spot sellers just like there are dungeon spot sellers. And even some casuals will be willing to organize to defeat the content once guides are out.

I was saying that they should not be available outside of raids like some individuals here want them to be.

I’m sorry, I just think this is dumb, it’s stupid and it has no place in MMOs.

Comments like this are a clear motive to divide people into two groups, in the same game.

Group 1: Hardcore Gaming

Group 2: Casual Gaming

and while these two types of plays style have been apart of gaming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, there is a backfire to be had here. A backfire I myself suffered in GW 1 when Ursan was introduced.

I wanted to do the Torment Realm, I wanted to play it, yet I could never find a group who would take me unless I was Ursan Rank 8 and I would get upset by this. I couldn’t EARN my own G.D. Armbrace, I had to BUY it because no one in Torment take me and try to TEACH me what needed to be done in order to achieve these things.

Some Hardcore players here in GW 2 don’t mind PuGing and I love that, I support it… but when other Hardcore Players discriminate against me or anyone else for being casual, then they very well could miss out on a potential player that would help them achieve their goal and it’s just, wrong.

I too bought this game, I have a right to play it, who is another player to tell me I cannot participate in certain aspect because I do not have this or I’m not a hardcore player?

I understand everyone has goals here, I get that, but… to exclude people from gaming in an area where they may not play it as well as someone else or… play it, but lack 10 more beeds of sweat that the Hardcore Players use as their prerequisite is pathetic,

I missed out on a sizeable part of GW 1 because I didn’t know how to play it and the so-called Hardcore GW 1 players would take someone who was Ursan Rank 6.

We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.

I went through it in Everquest, EQ 2 FFXI, SWTOR, GW 1 and I REFUSE to entertain going through it again here. Anyone who thinks this kind of mentality is justified should be bonked on the head. Pffffttt…

I’m a casual, or at least I call myself one, but everyone else labels me an “Elite” player in a novelty way cause I can do a great many things in this game that they can’t. But a lot of others can do a great many more things that I can’t… and… if I were interested, I’d never learn how cause no one would help to teach me, so…

Jump on my thought-train here, my darlings….

I don’t get this pug drama. Guilds will obviously clear it sooner because they are used to playing with eachother, but the more people that play it, the more that will learn it. If it’s on farm for many guilds, then why the hell wouldn’t a pug group be able to clear it? Especially since most guilds will have raid days and some people from those guilds will want to pug on other days. The know-how on what to do will automaticly spread.

Just be gratefull it’s not like wow, where it’s been beta’d so much there are actual guides for the bossfights before the game is even out.

I’d rather run with some pugs then be the only pug in some guild party only to have to carry their entire group cause they are all bad.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Seera.5916:

Dinks.2478:

Seera.5916:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Mayga.7241:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

There is smaaall little reason why legendary armor must remain locked behind hardest content in the game. It is called Crafting.

Nothing should belong only to a small fraction of the players in this game. I can go through a raid – this is no problem, I have years of experience in hardmode content.

But why is it necessary? Why this should be tied to the raid content? We have here WoW or GW2? I came to play in GW2. And I want to stay in it – not in clone of WoW.
So legendary armor must be hard-to-get, but only like legendary weapon. Raids must be pure challenge. This is only way to prevent the separation of the community.

Here we go again. WoW and doom in the same post. “Years of experience” yet you don’t understand why armor sets with free stat swapping should not be available to everyone.

Just like the weapons? Oh wait, I’m down to the stuff the needs gold. Gold is not hard to earn. And no where near hardcore.

It becomes something for hardcore players only and hardcore groups that can do it with a few under ten, they will likely sell the other spots for gold. Just like they do in dungeons.

So might as well make it doable by PUGs. It doesn’t have to be easy for them.to do it. But once guides get released, it should be doable, but difficult.

They CAN do it, there is no restriction blocking them aside from difficulty. It is CHALLENGING content. If they can do it they can do it. That is the only way to put it. Nobody will stop them from doing it but themselves.

And even some casuals will be willing to organize to defeat the content once guides are out.

And if ANet makes them sellable, then all bets are off and everyone with a credit card can have them just like the current set of legendary weapons.

First, I hope it won’t be so easy for “casuals” to kill it. IF they made the legendary armor sellable ( unlikely ) AND a decent amount of people liked the skin AND the skin could only be acquired through raids, then I think it wouldn’t be that bad of a idea. For the people that do raids to get the skin, they can either A: unlock in wardrobe if they like it or B: sell it for good money on the TP to still get a use out of it.

Like I said, once the guides come out some casuals may be willing to organize for it. Casuals don’t currently have to really organize for any of the easier content. They can usually just wing it or mooch off of the ones who do organize.

You don’t have to organize for content that’s not all that difficult. If it is at all difficult, you do have to organize for it.

Jaymee.1560:

I’m sorry, I just think this is dumb, it’s stupid and it has no place in MMOs.

Comments like this are a clear motive to divide people into two groups, in the same game.

Group 1: Hardcore Gaming

Group 2: Casual Gaming

and while these two types of plays style have been apart of gaming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, there is a backfire to be had here. A backfire I myself suffered in GW 1 when Ursan was introduced.

I wanted to do the Torment Realm, I wanted to play it, yet I could never find a group who would take me unless I was Ursan Rank 8 and I would get upset by this.

I too bought this game, I have a right to play it, who is another player to tell me I cannot participate in certain aspect because I do not have this or I’m not a hardcore player?

I understand everyone has goals here, I get that, but… to exclude people from gaming in an area where they may not play it as well as someone else or… play it, but lack 10 more beeds of sweat that the Hardcore Players use as their prerequisite is pathetic,

I missed out on a sizeable part of GW 1 because I didn’t know how to play it and the so-called Hardcore GW 1 players would take someone who was Ursan Rank 6.

We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.

I went through it in Everquest, EQ 2 FFXI, SWTOR, GW 1 and I REFUSE to entertain going through it again here. Anyone who thinks this kind of mentality is justified should be bonked on the head. Pffffttt…

“We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.”

Here’s where you went wrong. Even if the challenging group content is SUPER hard, you CAN do it. You just gotta practice. Its totally, 100% available to you. And if you don’t practice/don’t want to you can just ignore it ever existed. its ONE thing after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeons/fractals. Also its not wrong for someone to relise that you are better than someone else at a game. What you also have to relise is that you may have spent more time in the game, cared more about getting better because it was more fun to you, ran into a lot of people who helped you with tips n whatnot etc etc. When you start thinking your a better human being than someone else just cause your better at the game, then there is a problem.

I’m a forum noob here, seams like you added more to your post.

“I’m a casual, or at least I call myself one, but everyone else labels me an “Elite” player in a novelty way cause I can do a great many things in this game that they can’t. But a lot of others can do a great many more things that I can’t… and… if I were interested, I’d never learn how cause no one would help to teach me, so…”

If the CGC is actually challenging, you can just practice in dungeons/fractals, potentially even solo if you want, to get better with your dodge reflexes. And you can read on the internet probably at some point guides. No doubt there will be people who have completed the raid and will be willing to answer any questions someone has ( if I do complete it and get decent at it I would help out with questions ).

Frederica.9237:

I was checking out some topics regarding raiding on Reddit when I came across something unbelievable.

Get a load of this post :

“Everyone, we gotta send Anet a message.

Make sure you post on the official forums and send Anet lots of emails. Tell them that no raid in Guild Wars 2 should ever be puggable.

Real players like us deserve our bragging rights and legendary armor.

Casuals should never be allowed to clear a raid. Say no to PUGs. Lets do this people!!"

WTF, seriously?? Check it out yourselves. This is the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iy258/guild_wars_2_raiding_has_to_be_hard_duh_why_and/

The raids had better be puggable . To hell with your “bragging rights”.

anyone can say whatever they want, it doesnt mean he represents a large group, or that he makes any sense. Id be more wary of people with good reasoning than obvious crazies

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Jaymee.1560:

I’m sorry, I just think this is dumb, it’s stupid and it has no place in MMOs.

Comments like this are a clear motive to divide people into two groups, in the same game.

Group 1: Hardcore Gaming

Group 2: Casual Gaming

and while these two types of plays style have been apart of gaming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, there is a backfire to be had here. A backfire I myself suffered in GW 1 when Ursan was introduced.

I wanted to do the Torment Realm, I wanted to play it, yet I could never find a group who would take me unless I was Ursan Rank 8 and I would get upset by this.

I too bought this game, I have a right to play it, who is another player to tell me I cannot participate in certain aspect because I do not have this or I’m not a hardcore player?

I understand everyone has goals here, I get that, but… to exclude people from gaming in an area where they may not play it as well as someone else or… play it, but lack 10 more beeds of sweat that the Hardcore Players use as their prerequisite is pathetic,

I missed out on a sizeable part of GW 1 because I didn’t know how to play it and the so-called Hardcore GW 1 players would take someone who was Ursan Rank 6.

We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.

I went through it in Everquest, EQ 2 FFXI, SWTOR, GW 1 and I REFUSE to entertain going through it again here. Anyone who thinks this kind of mentality is justified should be bonked on the head. Pffffttt…

“We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.”

Here’s where you went wrong. Even if the challenging group content is SUPER hard, you CAN do it. You just gotta practice. Its totally, 100% available to you. And if you don’t practice/don’t want to you can just ignore it ever existed. its ONE thing after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeons/fractals. Also its not wrong for someone to relise that you are better than someone else at a game. What you also have to relise is that you may have spent more time in the game, cared more about getting better because it was more fun to you, ran into a lot of people who helped you with tips n whatnot etc etc. When you start thinking your a better human being than someone else just cause your better at the game, then there is a problem.

Where the OP went wrong was when he/she stated raids should not be available for casual players/pug’s, but only hardcore players.
If it is to hard for casuals/Pug’s that’s fine but it should be available and all should be able to at least try to beat it.

phys.7689:

Frederica.9237:

I was checking out some topics regarding raiding on Reddit when I came across something unbelievable.

Get a load of this post :

“Everyone, we gotta send Anet a message.

Make sure you post on the official forums and send Anet lots of emails. Tell them that no raid in Guild Wars 2 should ever be puggable.

Real players like us deserve our bragging rights and legendary armor.

Casuals should never be allowed to clear a raid. Say no to PUGs. Lets do this people!!"

WTF, seriously?? Check it out yourselves. This is the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iy258/guild_wars_2_raiding_has_to_be_hard_duh_why_and/

The raids had better be puggable . To hell with your “bragging rights”.

anyone can say whatever they want, it doesnt mean he represents a large group, or that he makes any sense. Id be more wary of people with good reasoning than obvious crazies

As we all found out in GW1 that particular group had more say with Anet than the other millions who played. (thanks Izzy)

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Jaymee.1560:

I’m sorry, I just think this is dumb, it’s stupid and it has no place in MMOs.

Comments like this are a clear motive to divide people into two groups, in the same game.

Group 1: Hardcore Gaming

Group 2: Casual Gaming

and while these two types of plays style have been apart of gaming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, there is a backfire to be had here. A backfire I myself suffered in GW 1 when Ursan was introduced.

I wanted to do the Torment Realm, I wanted to play it, yet I could never find a group who would take me unless I was Ursan Rank 8 and I would get upset by this.

I too bought this game, I have a right to play it, who is another player to tell me I cannot participate in certain aspect because I do not have this or I’m not a hardcore player?

I understand everyone has goals here, I get that, but… to exclude people from gaming in an area where they may not play it as well as someone else or… play it, but lack 10 more beeds of sweat that the Hardcore Players use as their prerequisite is pathetic,

I missed out on a sizeable part of GW 1 because I didn’t know how to play it and the so-called Hardcore GW 1 players would take someone who was Ursan Rank 6.

We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.

I went through it in Everquest, EQ 2 FFXI, SWTOR, GW 1 and I REFUSE to entertain going through it again here. Anyone who thinks this kind of mentality is justified should be bonked on the head. Pffffttt…

“We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.”

Here’s where you went wrong. Even if the challenging group content is SUPER hard, you CAN do it. You just gotta practice. Its totally, 100% available to you. And if you don’t practice/don’t want to you can just ignore it ever existed. its ONE thing after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeons/fractals. Also its not wrong for someone to relise that you are better than someone else at a game. What you also have to relise is that you may have spent more time in the game, cared more about getting better because it was more fun to you, ran into a lot of people who helped you with tips n whatnot etc etc. When you start thinking your a better human being than someone else just cause your better at the game, then there is a problem.

Where the OP went wrong was when he/she stated raids should not be available for casual players/pug’s, but only hardcore players.
If it is to hard for casuals/Pug’s that’s fine but it should be available and all should be able to at least try to beat it.

I agree, all players should be able to TRY to beat it. But I feel like fractal 50 ( and especially 100 when hot comes ) fills the role of challenging for most pugs. So now I think the only thing that is left is challenging for “hardcores” ( I’m thinking people from the top guilds/are real quick with there dodges, use good builds, and are in general knowledgeable about most things dungeon/fractal related ). One raid after 2 years isn’t that much to ask for to fill this gap that gw2 has had. With hopefully a few more challenging raids down the road too, I think gw2 will be able to maintain more people that they were losing because there wasn’t anything challenging pve related for them.

[/quote]

I agree, all players should be able to TRY to beat it. But I feel like fractal 50 ( and especially 100 when hot comes ) fills the role of challenging for most pugs. So now I think the only thing that is left is challenging for “hardcores” ( I’m thinking people from the top guilds/are real quick with there dodges, use good builds, and are in general knowledgeable about most things dungeon/fractal related ). One raid after 2 years isn’t that much to ask for to fill this gap that gw2 has had. With hopefully a few more challenging raids down the road too, I think gw2 will be able to maintain more people that they were losing because there wasn’t anything challenging pve related for them.

[/quote]
Even the top guilds will fail first time, it will be so many unknowns, difference is they will keep their failures quiet (even top guilds need to try and then adjust builds for new content, unless someone at Anet gives them early info (guess who) ), only when they beat it will we hear about it.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

I agree, all players should be able to TRY to beat it. But I feel like fractal 50 ( and especially 100 when hot comes ) fills the role of challenging for most pugs. So now I think the only thing that is left is challenging for “hardcores” ( I’m thinking people from the top guilds/are real quick with there dodges, use good builds, and are in general knowledgeable about most things dungeon/fractal related ). One raid after 2 years isn’t that much to ask for to fill this gap that gw2 has had. With hopefully a few more challenging raids down the road too, I think gw2 will be able to maintain more people that they were losing because there wasn’t anything challenging pve related for them.

[/quote]
Even the top guilds will fail first time, it will be so many unknowns, difference is they will keep their failures quiet (even top guilds need to try and then adjust builds for new content, unless someone at Anet gives them early info (guess who) ), only when they beat it will we hear about it.

[/quote]

Yeah that’s what I hope it will be like.

I think raids and fractals will give spaces for thoughts hardcore folks to play with out the casuals pugglings. It would be nice to see every major even in GW2 have a raid like version so a tequ raid or a balzar raid etc.. the abitly to have every event effect in GW2 to be put into an raid environment is endless possibility for hardcore players.

Keep this simple.

If you can beat the challenging raid, you get the rewards.

If you can’t beat the challenging raid, you don’t get the rewards.

It is that simple, I don’t care where the players who beat the raid, which is legitimately challenging and hard, come from or how long they have been playing this game.

Nobody has seen raids, no one killed last boss, but you have already divided people on PUG’s who do not deserve and for yourself, who of course deserve. What happened to you, people? Are you crazy with your elitism?

I hope the developers read all this and draw conclusions. I really hope.

CandyHearts.6025:

It’s my pug and I’ll pug how I want to.

SOOOOOOOOOO CUTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE……………hmpphhh

back on topic….Elitist sigh…..

Mayga.7241:

Nobody has seen raids, no one killed last boss, but you have already divided people on PUG’s who do not deserve and for yourself, who of course deserve. What happened to you, people? Are you crazy with your elitism?

I hope the developers read all this and draw conclusions. I really hope.

The only crazy person here is you. Or you are just trolling. In that case you should try to be less dramatic. More drama = people take you less seriously.

Mayga.7241:

Nobody has seen raids, no one killed last boss, but you have already divided people on PUG’s who do not deserve and for yourself, who of course deserve. What happened to you, people? Are you crazy with your elitism?

I hope the developers read all this and draw conclusions. I really hope.

And where did I say I deserved to be able to complete raids?? Your the one saying you DESERVE to be able to do a raid. Not me. In fact I said in a above post IF I complete the raid I would help out people who asked questions about the raid.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And even if they did I would hope the rewards would be substantially lessened for this easier mode.

And when we peel back everything to its core… THAT is what matters to you and the “hardcore” player.

You aren’t REALLY interested in the “challenge.” You want phat loot that makes you feel and look special. And in that case, Guild Wars 2 probably isn’t the game for you… because I highly doubt that the group content is going to be all that challenging (at least nothing that half of the player base can’t accomplish given enough time), and as a result its rewards aren’t going to be particularly exclusive.

Eh, I’m hoping raids don’t bring this “casual vs hardcore” and “elitism” mentality to the community. But to be quite honest, we need some challenging content in the game.

When I completed the current dungeons in the game, I felt no satisfaction completing them. They were easy, and not very exciting to complete. Rewards from them are just meh.

What I do hope for, though, is that raids are challenging enough to incentivize people to practice until success and run in coordinated groups. Doesn’t necessarily mean the raids can only be completed by “hardcore” “elitists”, but practice and coordination should be required.

I’ve been looking forward to challenging, small-group content in GW2; hopefully Raids will be this challenging content.

chemiclord.3978:

And when we peel back everything to its core… THAT is what matters to you and the “hardcore” player.

You aren’t REALLY interested in the “challenge.” You want phat loot that makes you feel and look special. And in that case, Guild Wars 2 probably isn’t the game for you… because I highly doubt that the group content is going to be all that challenging (at least nothing that half of the player base can’t accomplish given enough time), and as a result its rewards aren’t going to be particularly exclusive.

Or that people feel that more effort should reward more than less effort.. You aren’t peeling back some great conspiracy among “hardcore” players. They at least want something challenging to justify a reward where others seem to just want to show up and get rewarded.

I really cannot wait for the Devs to see THIS one!

Let’s just remind ourselves exactly what happened with the game community of Guild Wars (The Original Game…)!

1. Devs created a lovely nice environment for all to enjoy, develop and conquer TOGETHER;
2. Devs created such a lovely dungeon system as the players requested so that players could come TOGETHER to conquer the deepest of Tyria’s tests;
3. The players ruined EVERYTHING.

It’s like having a god create everything for you.. then you tiddle all over it.
Claiming NOT to include “pugging” for the raids is absolutely diabolical and also claiming that you are some-what elite compared to “casuals” like I cannot see your titles all over the news on how important you are?

Answer to your question, “casual” gamers become just as good as these so called “hardcore” players, although, as I’ve witnessed over a million (LITERALLY) times players insist on insulting “casual” players, not including them in group dungeons that clearly state “Recommended level 35” and begin to think they can take the future group activities away from them?

DIABOLICAL.

The players do not run this game, you pay for it but you do NOT run other people’s gaming experience leave that to the Game Devs. This is a community created for togetherness not because players have different skill levels lets not include them in the new stuff or even current stuff because I have 20K achievement points and they only have 2K, they’re not good enough for my parties.

Think we can all agree all classes are not made equal, therefore if this content is the hardest content in the game, some classes may get left out.

Anet won’t want that, therefore it will accommodate the lowest common denominator, either everyone [classes] can do it or only some [classes].

I’m really impressed at how quickly toxic raider culture is sweeping the forums. Well, in a “horrible car accident” kind of way.

It has always been there, just the content hasn’t been there to provoke it in people.

I don’t buy the “we’re so nice” talk, given the right prod (as we’ve seen) we soon eat ourselves.

NocturnalsGuardian.8924:

I really cannot wait for the Devs to see THIS one!

To be fair, while some of this thread has been a back and forth, the discussion isn’t really that toxic or bad. If it is considered bad or toxic, then maybe the Devs should reconsider their F2P decision, or think about redoing dungeons and sPVP. Much more toxicity there then in this thread.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

I’m really impressed at how quickly toxic raider culture is sweeping the forums. Well, in a “horrible car accident” kind of way.

Most of the venom appears to be from the people who want this new content removed or are upset about it being introduced.

Frederica.9237:

I was checking out some topics regarding raiding on Reddit when I came across something unbelievable.

Get a load of this post :

“Everyone, we gotta send Anet a message.

Make sure you post on the official forums and send Anet lots of emails. Tell them that no raid in Guild Wars 2 should ever be puggable.

Real players like us deserve our bragging rights and legendary armor.

Casuals should never be allowed to clear a raid. Say no to PUGs. Lets do this people!!"

WTF, seriously?? Check it out yourselves. This is the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iy258/guild_wars_2_raiding_has_to_be_hard_duh_why_and/

The raids had better be puggable . To hell with your “bragging rights”.

Its maybe wrote as offend but I agree with that completly. If you are casual player you shouldnt be able get hardcore stuff just for participation.

Rozbuska.5263:

Frederica.9237:

I was checking out some topics regarding raiding on Reddit when I came across something unbelievable.

Get a load of this post :

“Everyone, we gotta send Anet a message.

Make sure you post on the official forums and send Anet lots of emails. Tell them that no raid in Guild Wars 2 should ever be puggable.

Real players like us deserve our bragging rights and legendary armor.

Casuals should never be allowed to clear a raid. Say no to PUGs. Lets do this people!!"

WTF, seriously?? Check it out yourselves. This is the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iy258/guild_wars_2_raiding_has_to_be_hard_duh_why_and/

The raids had better be puggable . To hell with your “bragging rights”.

Its maybe wrote as offend but I agree with that completly. If you are casual player you shouldnt be able get hardcore stuff just for participation.

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

this reminds me of my favorite sardonic statement:

“There are two types of people in this world: those who dichotomize and those who don’t.”

yes, the statement itself is full of sarcasm, and is also inflammatory. it also describes the pitiful closed-mindedness that leads to the toxicity of elitism, and the belief that stereotypes and entitlement give certain individuals the “right” to judge everyone else by a different set of rules than oneself.

the truth is, no member of humankind has that inherent authority, yet it seems that every member of humankind claims it.

Chronic Bacon Deficiency Disorder still sux…

BrooksP.4318:

To be fair, while some of this thread has been a back and forth, the discussion isn’t really that toxic or bad. If it is considered bad or toxic, then maybe the Devs should reconsider their F2P decision, or think about redoing dungeons and sPVP. Much more toxicity there then in this thread.

Considering F2P players can’t even post on the forums to begin with, I don’t see how dragging that beef into this discussion is at all relevant.

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

The thing is it really depends on who you group with and how they do things. “Hardcore” would mean that you can invest 4-5 hours(maybe more) almost on a daily bases doing JUST raids or raid related stuff. Where as casual would be someone who plays maybe 2-3 hours a few days out of the week. If you have a group that can match the same playtime it doesn’t matter, raiding is about practice and learning the fights. It may take longer as a casual group or it might not be possible to clear the instance at first, but the better you get at the fights, and the better the coordination your group has the quicker you can complete the content.

However it is unknown exactly how the system will be set up. If there is a instance timer, instance locking, etc.

chemiclord.3978:

BrooksP.4318:

To be fair, while some of this thread has been a back and forth, the discussion isn’t really that toxic or bad. If it is considered bad or toxic, then maybe the Devs should reconsider their F2P decision, or think about redoing dungeons and sPVP. Much more toxicity there then in this thread.

Considering F2P players can’t even post on the forums to begin with, I don’t see how dragging that beef into this discussion is at all relevant.

Regardless of forum access F2P models allow for more ingame toxicity due to throwaway accounts and ease of joining/quitting. But as you said this isn’t really the place to discuss it, and was just using it as a example my apologies.

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

In case of pve its simple do define casual player:
- dont have proper gear
- dont have proper build
- dont know encounters

Basicly everyone who told you stuff like “I play this game as I want” is consider as casual. I dont wanna say its bad thing to be casual its perfectly fine.

Rozbuska.5263:

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

In case of pve its simple do define casual player:
- dont have proper gear
- dont have proper build
- dont know encounters

Basicly everyone who told you stuff like “I play this game as I want” is consider as casual. I dont wanna say its bad thing to be casual its perfectly fine.

Okay by your example i would not be a casual, of those three the only thing i do is not run the Meta builds.(which ive never noticed a decrease in my performance). I the proper armors and such and know almost all the encounters in the game, so by your example, i wouldnt be a casual then?

By the one above you however, on any given day but the weekend i would be considered a casual.

chemiclord.3978:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And even if they did I would hope the rewards would be substantially lessened for this easier mode.

And when we peel back everything to its core… THAT is what matters to you and the “hardcore” player.

You aren’t REALLY interested in the “challenge.” You want phat loot that makes you feel and look special. And in that case, Guild Wars 2 probably isn’t the game for you… because I highly doubt that the group content is going to be all that challenging (at least nothing that half of the player base can’t accomplish given enough time), and as a result its rewards aren’t going to be particularly exclusive.

If that’s what it was all about to me I would just go pvp to death to get the Glorious Hero’s armor and stop wishing they came out with all previous LS/gemstore stuff ( some of which I have, some of which I don’t have ). Oh and farm fractal 50 everyday to get a chance at the fractal tonic ( haven’t done a fractal in weeks ).