Guild Wars 2

We need this, badly…

I play with a group of irl friends and started playing GW2 to test it out and see how it measures up to ESO/SWTOR/TERA/SW and until the specialization patch I had given them a glowing review.

But now, I have more a “stay clear” comment to give, because at any time your characters may be customized by the dev team without a way to undo this.

MMORPG 101, never, ever remove the “player” part of the equation, which is what auto spending the Hero Points did.

Customizing a character without the player say should never be done and if it is absolutely necessary and out should be made available and no, “leveling up” is not an out not when it means playing a character you did no design.

The dev team needs to add a way to have our Hero points refunded, for everyone, including lvl 80s who might not want to have everything unlocked and would have preferred to convert points into shards rather then spend them in specializations they don’t like.

It’s only for characters while leveling and in a few levels, you can unlock what you want. It’s an inconvenience at best.

Anet could have written the code to make those points refundable, except they’re not refundable in any other part of the game, as when you buy skills. You can’t unbuy them. New characters don’t have this problem. 80s, don’t have this problem. Characters under 20 aren’t really affected by this, because as they level and do hero challenges they unlock what they want anyway.

So if you fall into the category of people who are affected, it’s a transitional change which would have cost more dev time than it was worth…particularly when you consider that once you level those characters, no new characters will ever been in that shape again.

This is basically confirmed to not ever going to happen. Because it is entirely against their design of the system long term. The need for this option might be there, but only in this odd transition period for veteran and returning players.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/5199934

I mean they could have added in the option to “Auto Allocate” and “Manual”, but since it is only a inconveniece to leveling characters, I doubt it was high priority.

No need for refunds. You’ll get everything eventually anyway. Plus, leveling is so faceroll easy you could trait nothing and everything will pretty much fall over if you so much as glance at it. By the time you get to 80, you’ll have enough points and it won’t matter.

1. There’s enough points to unlock everything, you are not permanently locked out of anything, its an inconvenience to expert users to avoid throwing less experienced players under the bus.

2. A one time reset option for the pros would have been really nice though.

Pretty much what everyone else said. This “problem” is only a problem until you finish leveling to 80, because at that point you can have everything unlocked.

If you don’t like they spent some of your points for you, well complain to all the people who freaked out at the prospect of having to unlock skills they had already unlocked. It’s because of those people that it was done how it was done.

This isn’t like a huge deal or anything, but everyone saying “oh you unlock it anyway by 80 it is no big deal” is wrong.

1)I am not getting to 80 anytime soon. GW2 is supposed to be casual friendly, I thought, and I enjoy the game. I am new. I have 3-4 alts, from 15-45 that I alternate through to enjoy different professions and see different parts of the game. I play casually, an hour here and there on some weeknights, maybe a good few hours on one weekend day. 80 is far away for me, and even further away if I play “my way.” If I wanted to only focus on one character it would come sooner but that’s not as enjoyable, and would still take a while for me.

2) ANet changed the way skill points, traits, and all of that worked. They were already putting work in to changing it and took time to change over your “points” into what they thought you would have picked. They chose poorly. If they were changing everything and resetting everyone’s points, seems pretty easy to throw a one-time reset option in there as well since it isn’t like the system was already locked-in for all our characters – they rewrote the system!

Is it a huge problem, am I frothing at the mouth? No. Can I not advance because the spec I want isn’t possible and I can’t kill anything? Nope! But does it hurt my enjoyment of the game because the points I earned got shunted into choices I wouldn’t have made, and I am stuck with those for quite a long time due to my casual playstyle. Now I’ve got a Necro with a fully unlocked Death trait that never bought a minion skill and no interest in buying them still. And so on. I’m playing a little kitten. It’s not a huge problem but it does kind of suck.

1) You will have to actively avoid leveling in order to avoid 80. If you’re avoiding leveling then it really doesn’t matter what your traits and skills are. It’s incredibly casual friendly, so much so that you can do absolutely anything short of nothing and you will get xp and level. You get enough hero points now in the course of a couple levels to buy whatever skills or traits you actually wanted in very short order, no matter how slow you level.

2) It would have been a wasted effort. From ANet directly, it would have taken more than twice to work and therefore time to have implemented a reset option or choice option, and ultimately it still would have upset people. They chose the option that was beneficial to the most players and characters with the minimal issue caused. And since it will not be need to be implemented again there is no point for them to do anything about it. Eventually all characters that were negatively effected by it will work through the issue, and no new characters will ever experience it.

I am not actively avoiding leveling, and I am not 80, so I don’t know what to tell you. And I can tell you from my own experience that no, I do not get enough hero points after a couple levels to unlock what I want, because I currently cannot unlock what I want even after a couple levels.

I get it, they made a choice, but don’t act like it doesn’t affect people. I am in the minority and I get that, but it sucks (just a little bit) for those of us who are there. Stating that players would have been too confused if they were offered their points back seems a bit silly to me.

I didn’t say you would magically become 80, just that your assertion that the comment about you eventually reaching 80 doesn’t somehow apply to you is inaccurate. You will reach 80 eventually. More importantly, you don’t need to reach 80. You just need to level up a few levels per character. You get points every other level. Chances are you’re goal isn’t to unlock everything, it’s only to unlock some things. As such you’ll probably pull that off well before 80.

I didn’t say it doesn’t effect people. I said it will never effect new characters. It only effected a handful of characters that already existed since most characters 60-80 should be in good shape regardless of the reset. Of those characters that were negatively effected even fewer players actually cared. So you’re in a minority of a minority for a situation that will never come up again moving forward. As such, there is no point in actually doing anything about it, especially since it will eventually work itself out as those characters earn hero points and fix the problem themselves.

I’d argue that the “task oriented” and “point based” unlock systems, by nature, makes the problem worse for new players BECAUSE they can’t effectively experiment with traits. This was the single biggest pitfall of the NPE, because EVERY trait line (under the old system) doesn’t make sense without the others; And under the new system, you’d need at least 2 full trait lines unlocked (along with the utilities) to have enough effects to really start playing around. Thats valuable time during leveling that could be used to experiment, being completely wasted as players fumble with even direct trait/weapon relationships.

This is an example the cognitive dissonance in the NPE that exists, despite the otherwise obvious connections between trait lines, weapons and utility skills. The Answer to this is actually very simple….. Combine the Trait line and Utility unlocks into the same progression screen, highlighting the relationship the 2 lines obviously have, and finding a way to annotate the weapon of choice for a given trait line.

Using Guardians as an example.

Zeal, Scepter/GreatSword, Spirit Weapons
Radiance, Sword/Torch, Signets
Valor, Focus/Shield, Meditation
Honor, Mace/Staff, Shouts
Virtues, Hammer, Consecrations

I mean, eventually works for anything. If ascended recipes or whatever you level 80s want dropped 1000x less, you would still “eventually” get them so why would you be upset if they changed the drop rates?

I will eventually hit 80 but it won’t happen soon. I will eventually get enough points but the way the trees work, more points are required to unlock an entire tree than to have a few in each, but I am limited to 1 tree until 45, 2 until whatever, etc. And I have one largely useless tree completely unlocked for me, sitting there soaking up all the points I had made.

I will definitely unlock things before 80, but the point is this change actively increased the amount of time I have to put in to get to that point, by taking away my choice in the matter.

I have leveled 8 characters before the old new trait system and before level 30 I could not trait anything and after level 30 I could start putting a few points in my traitlines but it did not much until I was around level 60-ish.

I leveled 3 characters after the old new Traitsystem and I couldn’t place and nice trait lines until I was level 80 and set out to get the traits I was unsure I realy wanted. I could have bought my traits but rarely did that, only bought Grandmaster traits.

Now when the Specialization system whent active I had 2 level 22-25 characters… My elementalist had Maxed out all Earth Spceialization (Traitline) and I was like oh, this is nice, this is way better than before when I didn’t have any traits at all, and all my skills I use are also unlocked. Sweeeeeet! I havent put much time in leveling my chars now though but I have leveled the elementalist another 7 levels and done some exploring with it and now I have unlocked some new traits… Though I won’t use them yet since I can only have one Specialization atm and for now Earth will do just fine, I am still below level 30 so with the old systems I wouln’t even have traits yet.

Now I could look at it like this, if I leveled a new character I could choose a Specialization to max out instead of go with earth but then… I do level so quick and it is so darn easy that I don’t have to bother with any specializations yet anyway so why bother.

Sure it takes away some freedom from already existing characters that havent level to 80 yet, but still it is such a small part and it is better than the old systems anyway. And as you continue to level you will have the ability to choose.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

I mean, eventually works for anything. If ascended recipes or whatever you level 80s want dropped 1000x less, you would still “eventually” get them so why would you be upset if they changed the drop rates?

I will eventually hit 80 but it won’t happen soon. I will eventually get enough points but the way the trees work, more points are required to unlock an entire tree than to have a few in each, but I am limited to 1 tree until 45, 2 until whatever, etc. And I have one largely useless tree completely unlocked for me, sitting there soaking up all the points I had made.

I will definitely unlock things before 80, but the point is this change actively increased the amount of time I have to put in to get to that point, by taking away my choice in the matter.

Your ascended comparison isn’t realy the same thing… We could actually compare with Ascended and leveling as they are now. Since the update we can now change the stats of ascended stuff but we need some things to do that. I got auto alocated traits and skills / is the same things as / I got wrong stat drop of an ascended armor. But I can level my character / is the same thing as / But I can convert the stats in the mystic forge with some stuff.

The comparison is hyperbole of course, but I just meant saying “eventually it won’t be a problem” isn’t a proper solution to the fact that it is a bit of a problem now. It is a first-world-MMORPG problem for sure, but still a bit of a bummer to me. I am just a minority since most people who are casual aren’t going to care, and most people who care aren’t casual.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

The comparison is hyperbole of course, but I just meant saying “eventually it won’t be a problem” isn’t a proper solution to the fact that it is a bit of a problem now. It is a first-world-MMORPG problem for sure, but still a bit of a bummer to me. I am just a minority since most people who are casual aren’t going to care, and most people who care aren’t casual.

Actually it is. The expected time to 80 is very low. The problem will go away, on its own, without any interference nor help from ANet. It will never come up again for any new characters, so it is still not worth investing time nor energy in. You are an outlier. You are a mark on the graph that is outside expected parameters. You are an anomaly, because you apparently take an excessive amount of time leveling. As such you are also not significant enough to invest energy in appeasing.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

This isn’t like a huge deal or anything, but everyone saying “oh you unlock it anyway by 80 it is no big deal” is wrong.

Actually no we aren’t wrong. You taking a long time to get to 80 doesn’t change the fact that just by leveling you will get enough points to unlock all the lines and skills. It doesn’t mean you’ll have to deal with it a bit longer than if you leveled faster.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

1)I am not getting to 80 anytime soon. GW2 is supposed to be casual friendly, I thought, and I enjoy the game. I am new. I have 3-4 alts, from 15-45 that I alternate through to enjoy different professions and see different parts of the game. I play casually, an hour here and there on some weeknights, maybe a good few hours on one weekend day. 80 is far away for me, and even further away if I play “my way.” If I wanted to only focus on one character it would come sooner but that’s not as enjoyable, and would still take a while for me.

That’s fine, doesn’t change the fact you will get all the skills by the time (if not before) you hit level 80.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

2) ANet changed the way skill points, traits, and all of that worked. They were already putting work in to changing it and took time to change over your “points” into what they thought you would have picked. They chose poorly. If they were changing everything and resetting everyone’s points, seems pretty easy to throw a one-time reset option in there as well since it isn’t like the system was already locked-in for all our characters – they rewrote the system!

Like I said before, cry to the people who made a big deal on the forums about having to re-unlock skills they had already gotten. Arenanet’s original plan was just to give us the points and let people spend them how they want. People complained it wasn’t fair because they’ve already unlocked things they shouldn’t have to again. So Arenanet changed the plan.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

Is it a huge problem, am I frothing at the mouth? No. Can I not advance because the spec I want isn’t possible and I can’t kill anything? Nope! But does it hurt my enjoyment of the game because the points I earned got shunted into choices I wouldn’t have made, and I am stuck with those for quite a long time due to my casual playstyle. Now I’ve got a Necro with a fully unlocked Death trait that never bought a minion skill and no interest in buying them still. And so on. I’m playing a little kitten. It’s not a huge problem but it does kind of suck.

You know what else you can do to speed up unlocking the things you want? As you’re roaming around the world do the hero challenges. Those will get you points even faster even though you are leveling slowly. Also like you yourself said, it isn’t a huge deal anyway.

“Guys don’t play GW2, it’s so broken right now, you have to wait until level cap for your character to have complete control over the build customization.”

“Oh dang OK; so you say you have to hit level cap to have everything unlocked on your character?”

“Yea what was Anet thinking with this one! Sure 99% of your time played will be at level cap, but that 1%, I mean, that’s like the most important, so why even bother playing!”

“Good looking out, dude!”

Trait points used to be tiered so leveling players could not access high level skills before leveling enough. The auto allocation probably helps keep players from maximizing one line at a time.

Anchoku.8142:

Trait points used to be tiered so leveling players could not access high level skills before leveling enough. The auto allocation probably helps keep players from maximizing one line at a time.

No, because that’s not a thing anymore at all. What it does is stop someone from maxing out a line they didn’t need, nor want maxed out, because they weren’t paying attention to what they were doing and run out of HP in the process, then demand the HP refunded because they made a mistake.

Draknar.5748:

“Guys don’t play GW2, it’s so broken right now, you have to wait until level cap for your character to have complete control over the build customization.”

“Oh dang OK; so you say you have to hit level cap to have everything unlocked on your character?”

“Yea what was Anet thinking with this one! Sure 99% of your time played will be at level cap, but that 1%, I mean, that’s like the most important, so why even bother playing!”

“Good looking out, dude!”

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

“They say it won’t happen again, but I don’t trust them if they are willing to customize my character for me even once”

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

Why? Because to max that specialization I don’t even plan to ever use they spent HP I didn’t have, I have no idea at what lvl I’ll be able to start playing my character in the specialization I want or by the skill I want…

The patch spent what little HP I had AND put in HP debt on top of that, great.

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

BrunoPuntzJones.5348:

This isn’t like a huge deal or anything, but everyone saying “oh you unlock it anyway by 80 it is no big deal” is wrong.

1)I am not getting to 80 anytime soon. GW2 is supposed to be casual friendly, I thought, and I enjoy the game. I am new. I have 3-4 alts, from 15-45 that I alternate through to enjoy different professions and see different parts of the game. I play casually, an hour here and there on some weeknights, maybe a good few hours on one weekend day. 80 is far away for me, and even further away if I play “my way.” If I wanted to only focus on one character it would come sooner but that’s not as enjoyable, and would still take a while for me.

2) ANet changed the way skill points, traits, and all of that worked. They were already putting work in to changing it and took time to change over your “points” into what they thought you would have picked. They chose poorly. If they were changing everything and resetting everyone’s points, seems pretty easy to throw a one-time reset option in there as well since it isn’t like the system was already locked-in for all our characters – they rewrote the system!

Is it a huge problem, am I frothing at the mouth? No. Can I not advance because the spec I want isn’t possible and I can’t kill anything? Nope! But does it hurt my enjoyment of the game because the points I earned got shunted into choices I wouldn’t have made, and I am stuck with those for quite a long time due to my casual playstyle. Now I’ve got a Necro with a fully unlocked Death trait that never bought a minion skill and no interest in buying them still. And so on. I’m playing a little kitten. It’s not a huge problem but it does kind of suck.

Your alts won’t have this problem. They’ll unlock what they want. This is only a transitional problem. It goes away by itelf with time. New characters choose their stuff.

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

Or delete the character and start again. Or PvP and save up tomes to get to level 80. Or create a new character, start that, save the tomes of knowledge from daily log in rewards and level that character that way.

And if you don’t care how temporary the problem is, that’s fair enough. But it’s not going to be fixed, because it’s not worth the development time. Go out, get some hero challenges, gain a few levels, it’s not like you even have to wait till you’re 80.

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

Or delete the character and start again. Or PvP and save up tomes to get to level 80. Or create a new character, start that, save the tomes of knowledge from daily log in rewards and level that character that way.

And if you don’t care how temporary the problem is, that’s fair enough. But it’s not going to be fixed, because it’s not worth the development time. Go out, get some hero challenges, gain a few levels, it’s not like you even have to wait till you’re 80.

I’m just going to save up daily log in tomes, it’s the only solution that doesn’t feel like a chore. I hate PvP and gaining those 5 lvls felt like a kick in the teeth by having to play the game on a “kittened” build.

Drivrius.6159:

MMORPG 101, never, ever remove the “player” part of the equation, which is what auto spending the Hero Points did.

So… you think that because the company did something that it felt was a respectable approach to a MINOR issue – that you thus far have been the only person that I’ve seen complain about it- that it removed the player agency from the game entirely?

Pretty faulty logic there.

And yes, leveling up -is- an out for it because it takes very little time to level up, with tomes and writs and alts and so on. Your reasons for being upset fall into illogical territory.

“I refuse to level up or play the game for 2-5 more hours to obtain more points, and since I refuse to be logical and do the natural, fastest thing to rectify a MINOR oversight, I demand anet to code in multiple facets to fit my wants.”

And then you used hyper exaggerated things like "If they dropped the drop rate by 1000000% , you’d “Eventually” still get it."

Wheras leveling takes so little time that like most people have said, you can practically and literally hit level 80 without leaving Queensdale.

If you’re level 1-10, the issue doesn’t effect you.

If you’re level 20-30, it’s a minor setback.

If you’re level 40-60, it’s a hassle, but you should have enough Hero points and skills to make a viable, if not optimal play-kit.

if you’re level 70-80, you already HAVE everything, so it doesn’t effect you.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Request-Refund-Hero-Points-for-non-80-s

I totally agree with you, but the problem is that the majority of the player base just doesn’t seem to give a rat’s kitten about anyone bar themselves. If it doesn’t affect them they won’t speak up for or against it.

Like here I got “deal with it” repetitively. But the thing is that we shouldn’t have to!

Miss Lana.5276:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Request-Refund-Hero-Points-for-non-80-s

I totally agree with you, but the problem is that the majority of the player base just doesn’t seem to give a rat’s kitten about anyone bar themselves. If it doesn’t affect them they won’t speak up for or against it.

Like here I got “deal with it” repetitively. But the thing is that we shouldn’t have to!

The concept is that "Dealing " with it takes maybe a week, or a reset. It’s not a huge loss or a difficult struggle. It’s….Playing the game . _ .;

Brian Ponder.9017:

Miss Lana.5276:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Request-Refund-Hero-Points-for-non-80-s

I totally agree with you, but the problem is that the majority of the player base just doesn’t seem to give a rat’s kitten about anyone bar themselves. If it doesn’t affect them they won’t speak up for or against it.

Like here I got “deal with it” repetitively. But the thing is that we shouldn’t have to!

The concept is that "Dealing " with it takes maybe a week, or a reset. It’s not a huge loss or a difficult struggle. It’s….Playing the game . _ .;

I completely understand that. I had to get to level 72 with my elementalist before I could unlock the things I wanted on her. By the time I got her there half the things I wanted to do with the build had already been done without it.

Brian Ponder.9017:

Drivrius.6159:

MMORPG 101, never, ever remove the “player” part of the equation, which is what auto spending the Hero Points did.

So… you think that because the company did something that it felt was a respectable approach to a MINOR issue – that you thus far have been the only person that I’ve seen complain about it- that it removed the player agency from the game entirely?

Pretty faulty logic there.

And yes, leveling up -is- an out for it because it takes very little time to level up, with tomes and writs and alts and so on. Your reasons for being upset fall into illogical territory.

“I refuse to level up or play the game for 2-5 more hours to obtain more points, and since I refuse to be logical and do the natural, fastest thing to rectify a MINOR oversight, I demand anet to code in multiple facets to fit my wants.”

And then you used hyper exaggerated things like "If they dropped the drop rate by 1000000% , you’d “Eventually” still get it."

Wheras leveling takes so little time that like most people have said, you can practically and literally hit level 80 without leaving Queensdale.

If you’re level 1-10, the issue doesn’t effect you.

If you’re level 20-30, it’s a minor setback.

If you’re level 40-60, it’s a hassle, but you should have enough Hero points and skills to make a viable, if not optimal play-kit.

if you’re level 70-80, you already HAVE everything, so it doesn’t effect you.

1st of all learn to read, the drop rate comparison wasn’t even advanced by me.

2nd it was my 1st and only character that got screwed, I played since the patch and only just got 6 new lvls with no end in sight for when I can I start customizing my own kitten character, because hey to force this specialization they “really” had to put me deep in HP debt…

No game I have ever played, specially not an MMO, has ever done something like take my character and all but play it for me and asked “keep playing it and eventually you get to customize it”.

So yeah my opinion of the game is not good, certainly not a game I would recommend to my friends and if by the time 29 days since I bought I still can’t play how I want I’ll ask for a refund and make sure no one I know plays this.

Brian Ponder.9017:

Miss Lana.5276:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Request-Refund-Hero-Points-for-non-80-s

I totally agree with you, but the problem is that the majority of the player base just doesn’t seem to give a rat’s kitten about anyone bar themselves. If it doesn’t affect them they won’t speak up for or against it.

Like here I got “deal with it” repetitively. But the thing is that we shouldn’t have to!

The concept is that "Dealing " with it takes maybe a week, or a reset. It’s not a huge loss or a difficult struggle. It’s….Playing the game . _ .;

Yes, it’s playing the game, but not with your character but the devs…

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

Drivrius.6159:

Brian Ponder.9017:

Drivrius.6159:

MMORPG 101, never, ever remove the “player” part of the equation, which is what auto spending the Hero Points did.

So… you think that because the company did something that it felt was a respectable approach to a MINOR issue – that you thus far have been the only person that I’ve seen complain about it- that it removed the player agency from the game entirely?

Pretty faulty logic there.

And yes, leveling up -is- an out for it because it takes very little time to level up, with tomes and writs and alts and so on. Your reasons for being upset fall into illogical territory.

“I refuse to level up or play the game for 2-5 more hours to obtain more points, and since I refuse to be logical and do the natural, fastest thing to rectify a MINOR oversight, I demand anet to code in multiple facets to fit my wants.”

And then you used hyper exaggerated things like "If they dropped the drop rate by 1000000% , you’d “Eventually” still get it."

Wheras leveling takes so little time that like most people have said, you can practically and literally hit level 80 without leaving Queensdale.

If you’re level 1-10, the issue doesn’t effect you.

If you’re level 20-30, it’s a minor setback.

If you’re level 40-60, it’s a hassle, but you should have enough Hero points and skills to make a viable, if not optimal play-kit.

if you’re level 70-80, you already HAVE everything, so it doesn’t effect you.

1st of all learn to read, the drop rate comparison wasn’t even advanced by me.

2nd it was my 1st and only character that got screwed, I played since the patch and only just got 6 new lvls with no end in sight for when I can I start customizing my own kitten character, because hey to force this specialization they “really” had to put me deep in HP debt…

No game I have ever played, specially not an MMO, has ever done something like take my character and all but play it for me and asked “keep playing it and eventually you get to customize it”.

So yeah my opinion of the game is not good, certainly not a game I would recommend to my friends and if by the time 29 days since I bought I still can’t play how I want I’ll ask for a refund and make sure no one I know plays this.

So don’t recommend the game to your friends and get a refund. Some people will. And the loss will be acceptable, because it’s an unreasonable position you’re taking.

I want this because this affects me.
But it doesn’t affect many people.
But it affects me.
But it doesn’t affect most people.
But it affects me.

Okay, so go find a game where you get the same value and be happy. I haven’t found a game where I’ve gotten this value. Leaving a game for a temporary transitional thing is absolutely your prerogative.

I’m just not sure why you think you have a reasonable position.

No, Anet should devote thousands of dollars of dev time because of a temporary situation that won’t affect the bulk of the population at all. Good call.6

ANet considered their options and made a decision with the best of intentions.

Unfortunately it was a poor decision.

Yes, it doesn’t affect you if you’re 80.
Yes, the problem will diminish the more you level.
Yes, levelling is easy in this game.

Ergo, it’s not a big problem.

But it did create a problem for some players, and really it’s more about the principle of the thing. They spent a non-refundable in-game currency, that had been accrued by the player through time invested, without permission. Added to which, the automated decision making process turned up some absurd and utterly unwelcome results. And anyway, the process of deciding how to spend a currency on unlocking things is one of the fun areas of the game. In what universe did it seem like a great idea to deny players the opportunity to enjoy spending their own points in pursuit of desirable stuff?

Bizarre choice by ANet and one I hope they don’t repeat.

At best it was absurdly condescending to players. It might have been a bit easier to forgive if it had been well executed. But it wasn’t.

Shame.

~TG

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

Drivrius.6159:

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

So then just delete it and start over. What will you lose? Honestly? Almost everything that matters is account bound now. Any bags you can bank. Your gear is meaningless cause you’re sub 80. If it’s such a big deal to you, why don’t you just start over?

There is your free reset right there.

TwoGhosts.6790:

ANet considered their options and made a decision with the best of intentions.

Unfortunately it was a poor decision.

Yes, it doesn’t affect you if you’re 80.
Yes, the problem will diminish the more you level.
Yes, levelling is easy in this game.

Ergo, it’s not a big problem.

But it did create a problem for some players, and really it’s more about the principle of the thing. They spent a non-refundable in-game currency, that had been accrued by the player through time invested, without permission. Added to which, the automated decision making process turned up some absurd and utterly unwelcome results. And anyway, the process of deciding how to spend a currency on unlocking things is one of the fun areas of the game. In what universe did it seem like a great idea to deny players the opportunity to enjoy spending their own points in pursuit of desirable stuff?

Bizarre choice by ANet and one I hope they don’t repeat.

At best it was absurdly condescending to players. It might have been a bit easier to forgive if it had been well executed. But it wasn’t.

Shame.

~TG

Pretty much what I feel, the choice is so bizarre and unlike what any MMO out there would make that it just leave me with no trust for the dev team.

The fact they claimed it was to help new players seem kind of adding insult to injury, there was a specialization calc available the day the patch was released and I had my build ready only to find out I don,t get a say in it… not for many lvls.

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

If the obvious solution takes more programming time, then it’s neither obvious nor a solution. All major projects have timetables and budgets.

Drivrius.6159:

TwoGhosts.6790:

ANet considered their options and made a decision with the best of intentions.

Unfortunately it was a poor decision.

Yes, it doesn’t affect you if you’re 80.
Yes, the problem will diminish the more you level.
Yes, levelling is easy in this game.

Ergo, it’s not a big problem.

But it did create a problem for some players, and really it’s more about the principle of the thing. They spent a non-refundable in-game currency, that had been accrued by the player through time invested, without permission. Added to which, the automated decision making process turned up some absurd and utterly unwelcome results. And anyway, the process of deciding how to spend a currency on unlocking things is one of the fun areas of the game. In what universe did it seem like a great idea to deny players the opportunity to enjoy spending their own points in pursuit of desirable stuff?

Bizarre choice by ANet and one I hope they don’t repeat.

At best it was absurdly condescending to players. It might have been a bit easier to forgive if it had been well executed. But it wasn’t.

Shame.

~TG

Pretty much what I feel, the choice is so bizarre and unlike what any MMO out there would make that it just leave me with no trust for the dev team.

The fact they claimed it was to help new players seem kind of adding insult to injury, there was a specialization calc available the day the patch was released and I had my build ready only to find out I don,t get a say in it… not for many lvls.

Most players don’t even pay attention to traits/specializations. You’re in the minority even there.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

So then just delete it and start over. What will you lose? Honestly? Almost everything that matters is account bound now. Any bags you can bank. Your gear is meaningless cause you’re sub 80. If it’s such a big deal to you, why don’t you just start over?

There is your free reset right there.

Starting over from scratch is the best option to a choice outside of the players hand, can you even think of better proof that said change was wrong?

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

If the obvious solution takes more programming time, then it’s neither obvious nor a solution. All major projects have timetables and budgets.

It’s the standard MMO solution, I’m not re-inventing the wheel here, they didn’t feel like going the extra mile was worth it which the fact the patch also brought imbalance to PvP and PvE is further proof they might have needed to spend more time and resources on making the patch better before rushing it to meet a self imposed deadline.

Drivrius.6159:

1st of all learn to read, the drop rate comparison wasn’t even advanced by me.

2nd it was my 1st and only character that got screwed, I played since the patch and only just got 6 new lvls with no end in sight for when I can I start customizing my own kitten character, because hey to force this specialization they “really” had to put me deep in HP debt…

No game I have ever played, specially not an MMO, has ever done something like take my character and all but play it for me and asked “keep playing it and eventually you get to customize it”.

So yeah my opinion of the game is not good, certainly not a game I would recommend to my friends and if by the time 29 days since I bought I still can’t play how I want I’ll ask for a refund and make sure no one I know plays this.

1. But you did touch on it.

2. Again, if your “first and only character” got screwed, then it’s not that big of a deal. Some people go from 1 to 80 in a WEEK. Your inability or refusal to correct it yourself isn’t any fault but your own.

Also, if your friends joined right now, they wouldn’t feel any effect of the patch, so really you’d just be lying to them if you said it would worsen their experience with the game.

=/

Brian Ponder.9017:

Drivrius.6159:

1st of all learn to read, the drop rate comparison wasn’t even advanced by me.

2nd it was my 1st and only character that got screwed, I played since the patch and only just got 6 new lvls with no end in sight for when I can I start customizing my own kitten character, because hey to force this specialization they “really” had to put me deep in HP debt…

No game I have ever played, specially not an MMO, has ever done something like take my character and all but play it for me and asked “keep playing it and eventually you get to customize it”.

So yeah my opinion of the game is not good, certainly not a game I would recommend to my friends and if by the time 29 days since I bought I still can’t play how I want I’ll ask for a refund and make sure no one I know plays this.

1. But you did touch on it.

2. Again, if your “first and only character” got screwed, then it’s not that big of a deal. Some people go from 1 to 80 in a WEEK. Your inability or refusal to correct it yourself isn’t any fault but your own.

Also, if your friends joined right now, they wouldn’t feel any effect of the patch, so really you’d just be lying to them if you said it would worsen their experience with the game.

=/

I never touched on it, I think you read someone else’s reply.

I wouldn’t be lying to them, they would ask what I think of the game:

“I don’t trust the dev team, they railroaded my character, I have never seeing this happen in any game I have ever played”

Which is all true.

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

If the obvious solution takes more programming time, then it’s neither obvious nor a solution. All major projects have timetables and budgets.

It’s the standard MMO solution, I’m not re-inventing the wheel here, they didn’t feel like going the extra mile was worth it which the fact the patch also brought imbalance to PvP and PvE is further proof they might have needed to spend more time and resources on making the patch better before rushing it to meet a self imposed deadline.

Actually, no. They chose to go the extra mile of putting in extra effort to appease the complainers who didn’t want to rebuild their characters themselves. You want them to have gone another mile after that to then also appease people who can’t handle the minor inconvenience this has on a very small cluster of character levels.

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

So then just delete it and start over. What will you lose? Honestly? Almost everything that matters is account bound now. Any bags you can bank. Your gear is meaningless cause you’re sub 80. If it’s such a big deal to you, why don’t you just start over?

There is your free reset right there.

Starting over from scratch is the best option to a choice outside of the players hand, can you even think of better proof that said change was wrong?

You must not have a lot of experience with MMOs if this is the first time you’ve played one and the result of a major patch had an effect where deleting and restarting your character is the best way to solve it. Specifically for a low to mid level character with nothing to lose.

I just don’t like people touching my shinies without my permission.

In game. Out of game. Same thing.

It’s not an unusual state of mind.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

If the obvious solution takes more programming time, then it’s neither obvious nor a solution. All major projects have timetables and budgets.

It’s the standard MMO solution, I’m not re-inventing the wheel here, they didn’t feel like going the extra mile was worth it which the fact the patch also brought imbalance to PvP and PvE is further proof they might have needed to spend more time and resources on making the patch better before rushing it to meet a self imposed deadline.

Actually, no. They chose to go the extra mile of putting in extra effort to appease the complainers who didn’t want to rebuild their characters themselves. You want them to have gone another mile after that to then also appease people who can’t handle the minor inconvenience this has on a very small cluster of character levels.

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

So then just delete it and start over. What will you lose? Honestly? Almost everything that matters is account bound now. Any bags you can bank. Your gear is meaningless cause you’re sub 80. If it’s such a big deal to you, why don’t you just start over?

There is your free reset right there.

Starting over from scratch is the best option to a choice outside of the players hand, can you even think of better proof that said change was wrong?

You must not have a lot of experience with MMOs if this is the first time you’ve played one and the result of a major patch had an effect where deleting and restarting your character is the best way to solve it. Specifically for a low to mid level character with nothing to lose.

I see, you’re at a impasse, no way to refute my argument so you revert to personal attacks, it’s ok it only says A LOT about yourself.